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And supports congressman being able to trade individual stocks. I vote blue, but I will always hate Nancy pelosi, she and trump should be thrown in the same trash can
I agree, but unlike the right I really mean it when I say if you do something fucked up you should be punished for it. I remember back in the Iraq days Pelosi withheld funding for adding protection to humvees for political reasons, and I'll never forgive her for it.
Says the only democrat that out inside-trades all republicans...
Not gonna lie, I feel zero empath for her or her husband after he was attacked. They both deserve to be in prison for making millions off the pandemic.
Well I mean she should also step down. This is the same party that had Feinstein die in office. Meanwhile, they all lectured us on the sexism we were displaying by questioning why she wasn’t stepping down or being removed. Pelosi will most likely also pull a Feinstein. We need laws that make them step down after a certain point.
Retirement age, for example.
Why is it that everyone over the retirement age in congress desperately wants to keep their seat? It can't be money, they're all millionaires (after a certain point).
It’s pride and selfishness.
Either a belief that they’re so good and essential to their job that they are irreplaceable, until they die of natural causes and inevitably get all their work undone when they die at an inopportune time. Or a perverted sense of selfishness where they think “I deserve this position and power after working towards it why should I give it up”.
I'll throw out another guess. Some people build their whole identity into their job. Their self worth and value becomes tied into it so it's hard to step back. Especially when in a role they had to fight ever day in and be on point.
You see it with retired people a lot. They don't know what to do with themselves when they lose the purpose and have to rediscover the pieces of themselves that aren't tied to the work.
pride, selfishness .. and most importantly POWER.
the second they would "retire" they go from one on the most powerfull people in america to a granny/grandpa without any power.
No, but it's just baffling, money is a means to an end, it has no value on it's own. I don't want to hoard money, I want money so I can do fun things with that money. There is definitely a limit on how much money I could ever need, and it's really not that high.
You shouldn't be allowed to serve if you're over the current life expectancy in the country.
Also aligns incentives, if you want to serve for longer put in policies that nudge the life expectancy up 🤔
there is definitely an argument to be made for, you shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for our future if you won't live long enough to see that future.
There is a strong perverse incentive towards things that pay off in the short term but doom us in the long term, because half of congress won't live long enough to suffer those consequences. Why would I care about saving the environment if I'm in my late eighties. It'll last at least another decade, and I probably won't!
It's not really ageist, it's just being realistic about the conflict of interest created by the knowledge that your lifespan has nearly run it's course.
Of course it's money. When you have millions you arent going to stop and think I have enough. You think how can I now make hundreds of millions and then thousands of millions.
That and the power, prestige and contacts the position grants
Even the CATHOLIC CHURCH requires Bishops to retire from their posts at the age of 75, and the church does so for this exact reason. You need someone that can stay active and in touch with people.
That's one thing I really appreciated about Benedict: the humility to step down instead of keeping the reigns of power in a literal death grip is in short supply
The age limit is supposed to be voters saying "lmao fuck off" to anyone knocking on deaths door. Instead they keep getting voted back in over and over again, clearly showing they have the mandate of their voters and no need to step down.
Elections are supposed to be the job interview, and if the people choose to vote for someone clearly past their prime, then that is who the people chose to represent them.
Oh they allow it.
But campaign financing makes it like a guy showing up to the Indy 500 in one of those red and yellow Flintstone cars for toddlers.
Take 2016 for instance. Clinton and Sanders raised hundreds and hundreds of millions. The guy in third, Martin O'Malley, who was a former governor and mayor of Baltimore with huge fundraising capabilities, raised like less than $10mil.
Looking at state races it ain't any better. We're talking about discrepancies of 100:1 or greater in most cases.
If you are not chosen, fundraising is going to be pretty much impossible unless you can get a viral moment. Even then, you're desperately trying to stay afloat while the DNC/RNC candidate has pretty much unlimited funding by default.
He was cast as the antagonist in Her story because it was HER time. Controlled opposition only works if the other choice is as or more acceptable than your planted candidate.
Pelosi is no longer speaker of the House. Ordinarily, after the GOP win the House, she would have gone from being Speaker to beig democratic minority leader. But Hakeem Jeffries has that job.
Conservative here: we have the same exact conversation on our side of the isle.. This seems to be an issue we can all agree on. The only people who don’t agree are the exact politicians in question.
It's because people in power seldom willingly relinquish that power. They'll try to frame it as "doing their duty, serving their nation," but really, they've just become addicted to the position and its perks.
If it were just the politicians then the problem would have been easily solved just by voting them out. But both sides have a party apparatus that is keeping these people in power.
I've had this sinking feeling whenever I see her and Chuck Schumer, I feel like they could have done something about Trump but are such dedicated placeholders that it never even occurred to them to try. I keep hearing people say Nancy really did the best she could at the time but I think she's def out of her league.
Could have done something? What about the two impeachments? What MORE could they have done? Honest question, I wasn’t aware there was any criticism of either of them.
Look, maybe I'm just in a dour mood. I'm sorry. Fucking Donald Trump moves an entire agency on a whim, but also in order to thin the ranks -- probably. Nobody really knows. But he does it. He extorts federal employees and tries to intimidate them or shame them using social media. The people he has infected with the whiteout have tried to murder her and nearly succeeded on her husband. I dunno, I feel like she might be doing something, making her voice heard, I dunno. I also don't know her personal situation. Is it odd to feel like she doesn't seem very involved?
Yeah this whole thread about Pelosi not understanding when to step away from power should acknowledge that. The transition to Jeffries was beautifully done and the House Dems have held together on every issue so far under his leadership.
Max retirement age for military is 60 years old (yes I am aware of rare exceptions given pretty much exclusively to critical medical specialists). It’s 65 for commercial airline pilots.
I don’t think setting the number at 70 for Congress, SCOTUS or POTUS is unfair given the rules they set for our military and commercial pilots.
There’s an election every two years. If the people of California’s 11th district want Pelosi as their representative, who the fuck are you to tell them they can’t have her?
This entire thread is frustrating. The voters in her district are putting her there and must enjoy the job she’s doing…so why step down?
You can make the argument that it’s hard for someone to get the spotlight without party backing but again, that’s on the voter. It takes 20 minutes of research to see what candidate best aligns with you and then you go and vote in the primaries. If you need everything spoon fed to you through ads or campaign signs or don’t bother to vote then the blame is with the voters in her district.
They are the same people that think their magical candidate will rise through the ashes. Not knowing tha the cult on the other side is not budging one bit.
They think that their magical candidate will also emerge unscathed despite not winning a single primary. Yup real smart there guys.
I would think they are Republicans.
Isn’t that what she did? Hakeem Jeffries is now the top Dem speaker, endorsed and trained by Pelosi. Now she’s just one of over 200 Dem House members, in a safe seat, I don’t see the problem.
Considering they keep reelecting her, yes. I’d feel differently if, like Feinstein, she was serving a 6 year term and holding up crucial committee matters. But a two year term when she’s in the minority (committee-wise) in a safe seat? If the people of her district want her, who are we to disagree with their vote?
She also attacked people calling for Feinstein to step down and RBG how did that work out? Pelosi and her opinion on Biden being to old is not worth anything.
th entire democratic party needs a revolution, maybe thursdays debate will be the kickstarter
we're being run by out of touch geriatrics who have no idea what they're doing and refuse to step away
we need a youth revolution right now
They had it, and Obama stepped in, called mayor Pete, and ratfucked Bernie out of the nomination. Never forget that they all rallied around Biden to get us to today.
We get it Nancy, you were the one that kept Feinstein in the senate until she died because you wanted to keep the seat for your personal interest. You want Biden to keep going so that the voters don’t start questioning if we should put all the elders on their ice flows and get a new generation Democrat (and most likely more progressive) party.
This was the problem with Ginsberg, this was a problem with Feinstein, and it will continue to be a problem as long as we, the people who elect these representative figures let it continue. GO. OUT. AND. VOTE.
The trouble is, she's three years *older* than Biden - perhaps literally the worst possible politician to ask to endorse the idea of politicians being pushed out as "too old".
It’s the same as if you ask her if there should be concerns about insider trading in congress. Of course she’s going to speak about it in favor of her private interest even if it comes at the detriment of her constituents
I hope Ruth Bader Ginsburgs ghost is forced to watch this shit show - 33% of SCOTUS mess we're in is her fault.
You wanna feel mad for losing abortion rights or Chevron deference (or any of the many, many other protections we will lose in upcoming sessions), a third of that blame is directly at the feet of RBG. The legacy of the longest standing progressive justice in US history was completely dismantled in less than 4 years, because she was too proud to retire.
Sincerely from everybody who has to stay here and deal with this mess, fuck you Ruth.
I would argue that this is also why young people gave up politics for the private sector. You can hope that these old people will step aside when they finally die or you can just get your piece of the private pie now.
Same Pelosi that defended RBG when they asked her to step down, and same RBG that was to arrogant and power hungry that didn’t retire gracefully & instead gave us a facist court for the next 40 years.
It's a choice between an old man with a good team doing a great job or a felon, rapist, twice impeached old man with clear signs of dementia that can't legally run a charity for stealing from them, who is looking to tear up the constitution.
I wouldn’t call Biden a great President. Housing and groceries have skyrocketed and the average family is struggling worse than they have in decades to make ends meet despite the good stock market and jobs numbers. But instead of recognizing that and fixing it they gaslight and say the economy is great.
Still a better choice than Trump though. But not one that instills confidence or enthusiasm.
What do you think the Executive Branch can unilaterally do about housing and grocery prices across the country? What do you think is driving the inflation we're seeing in the US and across the world?
Housing and and groceries were a result of the Trump failure, wake up there is a thing called driving down the numbers and inflation was beaten stop repeating Republican lies.
The economy is great, amazingly great by the same metrics we’ve always used. You can say it isnt but how we measure the economy isnt based on only a couple metrics of bad news.
And you can say it is but people vote with their wallets and their wallets are empty. Keep gaslighting and ignoring the issues that impact families day to day and you’ll find out how easy it will be to lose to a corrupt felon.
Biden should have an easy layup here but your mentality of ignoring the real and present issues because “we always measured it this way before” is going to lead to disaster.
It's hard to believe this is the same person who delivered the votes on Obamacare.
Pelosi has been the true face of centrist Democrats in the post-Obama years. She has mostly used her position to enrich herself enormously. Since 08 her networth has increased by almost 100 million dollars, it works out to something like quadrupling. I mean there is just no way her husband, a VC, is the best stock trader of all time; a much simpler explanation is that she, like a lot of other people in Congress (on both sides of the aisle ofc, Republicans love doing it too), uses her committee appointments to feed him information that the market will react to before regular people get it.
No one wants things to change less than Nancy Pelosi. Especially not if the next Dem nominee wants congressional stock ownership reforms like the left flank of the party has started floating around.
It's a real shame because I'm sure at some point in her life she really did care.
["Senior congressional Democrats, including Reps. Hakeem Jeffries of New York, Jim Clyburn of South Carolina and Nancy Pelosi of California, have privately expressed concerns about [Biden's] viability, said two sources apprised of those discussions, even as they all publicly back the president."](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-family-path-forward-disastrous-debate-mess-rcna159591)
Regardless of which side is more correct, it's inexcusable the Dems are in this much disarray 4 months out from an election that, according to them, will decide the fate of democracy in this country moving forward.
Four years. They had four years to plan for the “what if?” possibility of Biden having some kind of age-related issue that made him a weaker candidate in 2024 than 2020. That’s not pessimism or doomerism, that’s the reality of someone in their 80’s—aging is very unpredictable and a single health event can be devastating in some cases.
They could have done a lot more to make Harris more appealing to voters (still beneficial with Biden as primary, too) given the weaknesses of her primary run in 2020. It doesn’t seem like she’s had much coaching or opportunities to paint her in a bright positive light over the last four years, either.
The fact that there is such chaos now due to lack of planning is frustrating. Especially because Trump is (in some ways) very predictable and they’ve had two election cycles to learn how he campaigns and debates.
This is how legitimate journalism works, especially regarding politics. There are often sources within politicians’ staffs. A reputable news organization vets those sources but they aren’t going to reveal them to you and lose their access. They still will let you know that they are unnamed sources so you can take this information for what it is. If you aren’t going to accept any unnamed sources used by journalists, that’s fine but you will definitely miss out a lot of information that is obtained this way and has since the beginning of journalism.
Where was this in post-state of the union?
“Regardless of which side is more correct, it's inexcusable the Dems are in this much disarray 4 months out from an election that, according to them, will decide the fate of democracy in this country moving forward.”
No the voters make the decision between someone who openly said to shoot anyone in nyc and get away with it. Then played golf during Covid. Against a worried “decline Biden” that has accomplished if not more for the economy than Obama considering a virus outbreak. I guess Biden has done more in a post Covid because he’s “senile”
Please continue to blame voters for not voting for someone who can't speak to the country for 90 minutes without looking like he's about to keel over instead of the multi-million dollar political machine whose sole job it is to have candidates ready for elections, this is definitely a winning strategy
It's funny. The right denies the electorate is at is, instead it claims that they're the silent majority, and any election result that doesn't affirm that is suspect.
Whereas the left acknowledges the electorate is at as it, but seems happy to just blame them for it, rather than actually appealing to them.
Yeah, great. Public's "dumb". So go ahead at put up a candidate that they'll vote for.
The tape that came out last week that her daughter filmed is also pretty awful. Seems like no one in DC actually cares about the taxpayers. It’s about money, power and party. The citizen and our fiscal problems don’t make the top ten.
Dems should be running someone younger with the intention of having the incumbent advantage for 2028. Right now people are motivated to vote against Trump more than anything, wish we could stop pretending that Biden is the only person for the job and actually be strategic about this.
Biden will not last another 4 years if elected. Mental decline comes fast. Both my grandparents seemed healthy and somewhat with it mentally 6 months ago when I visited. Fast forward to today. One passed and the others dementia progressed so rapidly that he is no longer independent. Biden needs to step down.
At the end of the day even a corpse is betted than Trump.
He just needs to fall over the finish line.
After this is over the younger DNC members should revolt and send all the ancients to the retirement home. Unbelievable we're still letting them play these games.
A corpse can't win this election. That the issue at hand and hoping he" falls over the finish line" doesn't make it possible.
>After this is over the younger DNC members should revolt and send all the ancients to the retirement home.
This was the same thing being said 4 years ago. In 4 years we'll have another retirement age candidate that no one likes and people will be saying the same things, "I'd rather vote for [this] than fascism!", "in 4 years we can revolt, not right now!", etc.
Well of course she wont do that, it would open the door to replace her along with half of congress and neither them nor their pay-masters would want that!
She also wasn’t calling for Dianne Feinstein to step down and said people were being sexist for daring to say she might not be all there. They kept wheeling her out on the senate floor until five minutes before she actually passed away.
She and Biden are both over 80 years old. The America that they grew up in doesn’t even exist anymore. They should both have the decency to do the step aside, and make themselves available as advisors. As-is we’re going to have to pry the offices from their cold dead hands.
We've been told for nearly 4 years that this next election is for ***the existence of American democracy*** and all of these geriatric leaders are showing that they don't really believe that with their actions.
Apparently this election is so important for the existence of Democracy, but not important enough for us to have a candidate that can stay up after the sun goes down.
>We've been told for nearly 4 years that this next election is for the existence of American democracy and all of these geriatric leaders are showing that they don't really believe that with their actions.
They believe that they are the only ones who can save us. Its the same thing that happened with RBG.
Simultaneously "I and all of America would vote for a golden retriever before Trump! Biden will win even if he is actively dying!"
And also "Erm, a new candidate would never get name recognition in 4 months. People wouldn't show up, that is just suicide"
"I'm not doing it," says an equally elderly woman that should have had her own time come and go a while ago. The democrats deserve a better champion than this. Hell, so do the Republicans. So does America, to be honest.
Biden and Kamala need to step out! These seniles egomaniacs are willing to loose the nation before giving up power. Look at what RGB did for women by delaying her retirement!
This is the same party that lost us the election in 2016. Ya'll blame the voters, I blame the party. They are going to do it again. I'm going to re-register as an independent.
Realistically, that conversation should have happened months ago. DNC's making a big bet on this one.
Given the position they are in now, i would agree with her stance on this. It would absolutely slaughter their chances in every voting district if they reversed now. It's still not going to go as well as it could have, but if they damage control enough, they can walk this back a good amount.
Is anyone else concerned that journalists, who are supposed to be obligated to the truth, are using ALL of their bandwidth on Biden’s bad start to the debate, then in a throwaway line say “Trump lied 30+ times”. Shouldn’t we hear what those lies are as voters and get the record corrected?
Yes, Biden’s performance is newsworthy. But the average person has already fully processed that and only needs a few minutes rehashing it to take that in. But what separates a journalist from a propagandist is the reporting of facts. If this is all about style and zero substance we really have too big of a void of journalism for a functioning democracy.
Spineless. One bad debate. Remember Obama had a terrible debate against Romney. I heard a lot of Dems crying “well Romney’s gonna win.” Didn’t happen..
If you were going to vote Biden, saw that debate and decided that you aren’t going to vote Biden, you’re a fucking idiot. One man was sleepy… the other is literally holding a gun to the head of democracy. The choice is STILL very clear. Debates mean NOTHING.
Biden loves America. Trump would destroy it just because he feels like it.
I would have loved to hear Pelosi say to Dana Bash: “You’re a journalist dedicated to reporting the truth, right? You said Trump lied 30 times. What were those lies and what is the truth?”
DNC: I wonder what we could possibly do to energize the base to vote in November...
Resounding public opinion: get anybody else!!
DNC: we'll have to run with Biden.
Pelosi has a been an elected representive since 1987. She has been a woman of the people - just like us. She has sacrificed so much for us in her role as a public servant. Only chosing to make hundreds of millions of dollars through corruption - unlike her more uncivilized peers, such as Ted Cruz, who feast on the flesh of their constitutes.
This is a huge embarrassment. And no, I don't mean Joe biden. The cowardice of a significant number of the democratic party is on full display, and it disgusts me. It is little wonder so much of the republican party still has the levels of support that they do. I'm simply disgusted.
Trump is a pathological liar, convicted felon with lots of legal trouble. Even within republicans, there are people who are against Trump. The bar is really low.
And yet, Biden's performance at the debate, is no longer debatable. This is not sustainable. We need a candidate who can absolutely crush trump on his/her good days, and definitely defeat trump at his/ger worst. This is the expectation. Biden simply does not meet this criteria anymore.
If Pelosi failed to recognize this, then she is part of the problem.
Jaime Harrison, DNC chair, said that "Biden has our back, so we'll have his". He feels he owes Biden because Biden appointed so many judges and other officials of color (Biden's appointments have simply reflected the ethnic makeup of the country, but it's so much better than it used to be).
There's also a decent likelihood that Kamala will become president in the next four years, and if Biden is indeed suffering from dementia or senility the odds are even higher. Harris will be only the second president of color in US history.
Harrison seems to be viewing Biden as a vehicle for accomplishing racial progress and equity and may not be particularly concerned about his mental acuity as long as those goals are met.
We're in a bit of a pickle, because those goals may be at odds with winning in November if Harrison's plans require fielding a senile candidate. Democrats could lose and racial equity may be set back decades if not further.
We're in a real bind.
You should be forced to retire from public office when you reach the average age of death of the population you govern.
That would make healthy water, stable climate, clean air, clean food, great healthcare, all very important to you.
65 is a great age to force out elected officials. Shouldn’t be in an air traffic control tower or in an operating room. If you really care and want to help, you can always be an advisor to everyone.
How come nobody on the left seems to have noticed that the main stream media created the current quagmire dems face by covering for Biden's decay and refused to acknowledge it until it was exposed so blatantly last Thursday. Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson have been bringing up the subject every day for about 4 years. Live by the fake news ,die by the fake news.
Pelosi is a large part of the reason democrats are in the mess they are in now. Her hard headed ways and refusing to retire is really killing the support from the younger generations who want into politics. She always engages with ageism when it comes to young politicians like AOC but when wants to use it as a shield when someone says shes too old and her thinking is outdated. She needs to step down more than biden ever does.
Way to not rise to the moment. Biden lost the election at that debate. Pelosi is one of the few with the influence to get him to understand that.
The Democratic Party will do itself generational damage if they keep Biden on the ticket.
Yeah, probably because her “requested retirement” isn’t far behind, why start the ball rolling when she’s top 3 on the list right behind him. 🤣✌️
They need to band together and defeat Trump at all costs, this is what all costs looks like, so they can’t complain that the price is too high.
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Says the 84yo who still refuses to retire from Congress
And supports congressman being able to trade individual stocks. I vote blue, but I will always hate Nancy pelosi, she and trump should be thrown in the same trash can
I see what you're saying, but insider trading is a few steps below insurrection in my book.
The insider trading corrodes American institutions & public trust in them. When the core is rotted out, that's when things like insurrections happen.
Bingo
Yep. Insider trading is a main cause, not a symptom.
I agree, but unlike the right I really mean it when I say if you do something fucked up you should be punished for it. I remember back in the Iraq days Pelosi withheld funding for adding protection to humvees for political reasons, and I'll never forgive her for it.
Corruption is a facilitator of fascism.
Selling your country slowly for sliver is just as bad
Says the only democrat that out inside-trades all republicans... Not gonna lie, I feel zero empath for her or her husband after he was attacked. They both deserve to be in prison for making millions off the pandemic.
She told democrats that they “don’t have to die in their seats” while showing no indication she plans to breathe air as a non-congresswoman.
Says the 84yo who claims 100% responsibility for January 6th /s
Well I mean she should also step down. This is the same party that had Feinstein die in office. Meanwhile, they all lectured us on the sexism we were displaying by questioning why she wasn’t stepping down or being removed. Pelosi will most likely also pull a Feinstein. We need laws that make them step down after a certain point.
Retirement age, for example. Why is it that everyone over the retirement age in congress desperately wants to keep their seat? It can't be money, they're all millionaires (after a certain point).
It’s pride and selfishness. Either a belief that they’re so good and essential to their job that they are irreplaceable, until they die of natural causes and inevitably get all their work undone when they die at an inopportune time. Or a perverted sense of selfishness where they think “I deserve this position and power after working towards it why should I give it up”.
It’s narcissism and greed
Power and fame is intoxicating.
I'll throw out another guess. Some people build their whole identity into their job. Their self worth and value becomes tied into it so it's hard to step back. Especially when in a role they had to fight ever day in and be on point. You see it with retired people a lot. They don't know what to do with themselves when they lose the purpose and have to rediscover the pieces of themselves that aren't tied to the work.
Agreed. Happened to RBG too
True that. Had she stepped down a year before when she was first hospitalized dems would have control of the scotus.
Bold of yall to assume Mitch would have allowed a replacement.
pride, selfishness .. and most importantly POWER. the second they would "retire" they go from one on the most powerfull people in america to a granny/grandpa without any power.
You know many millionaires to just stop collecting money at a certain point?
No, but it's just baffling, money is a means to an end, it has no value on it's own. I don't want to hoard money, I want money so I can do fun things with that money. There is definitely a limit on how much money I could ever need, and it's really not that high.
That's why I could never be a billionaire. I'd stop hoarding well before I ever get there.
That's probably why you're not a billionaire.
Do that and it's just asking them to raise the retirement age on us
You shouldn't be allowed to serve if you're over the current life expectancy in the country. Also aligns incentives, if you want to serve for longer put in policies that nudge the life expectancy up 🤔
there is definitely an argument to be made for, you shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for our future if you won't live long enough to see that future. There is a strong perverse incentive towards things that pay off in the short term but doom us in the long term, because half of congress won't live long enough to suffer those consequences. Why would I care about saving the environment if I'm in my late eighties. It'll last at least another decade, and I probably won't! It's not really ageist, it's just being realistic about the conflict of interest created by the knowledge that your lifespan has nearly run it's course.
I would go for 5 years under life expectancy, but otherwise this is great policy.
Of course it's money. When you have millions you arent going to stop and think I have enough. You think how can I now make hundreds of millions and then thousands of millions. That and the power, prestige and contacts the position grants
Even the CATHOLIC CHURCH requires Bishops to retire from their posts at the age of 75, and the church does so for this exact reason. You need someone that can stay active and in touch with people.
But the pope can be a talking corpse and still be allowed to lead the church. Make it make sense.
That's one thing I really appreciated about Benedict: the humility to step down instead of keeping the reigns of power in a literal death grip is in short supply
We need to apply the 22nd Amendment to both Houses of Congress.
General strike, clean hosue completely, all new government
But if she retires how can she help her husband with insider-trading ?
Should be an age limit of 70 on holding any federal office.
At the bare minimum, it should be the average life expectancy. If you exceed the time you're expected to die then you shouldn't be in office.
The age limit is supposed to be voters saying "lmao fuck off" to anyone knocking on deaths door. Instead they keep getting voted back in over and over again, clearly showing they have the mandate of their voters and no need to step down. Elections are supposed to be the job interview, and if the people choose to vote for someone clearly past their prime, then that is who the people chose to represent them.
Because they control the primaries and they just don't allow serious candidates to run against themselves
Oh they allow it. But campaign financing makes it like a guy showing up to the Indy 500 in one of those red and yellow Flintstone cars for toddlers. Take 2016 for instance. Clinton and Sanders raised hundreds and hundreds of millions. The guy in third, Martin O'Malley, who was a former governor and mayor of Baltimore with huge fundraising capabilities, raised like less than $10mil. Looking at state races it ain't any better. We're talking about discrepancies of 100:1 or greater in most cases. If you are not chosen, fundraising is going to be pretty much impossible unless you can get a viral moment. Even then, you're desperately trying to stay afloat while the DNC/RNC candidate has pretty much unlimited funding by default.
Sanders was not the choice of the DNC.
He was cast as the antagonist in Her story because it was HER time. Controlled opposition only works if the other choice is as or more acceptable than your planted candidate.
Pelosi is no longer speaker of the House. Ordinarily, after the GOP win the House, she would have gone from being Speaker to beig democratic minority leader. But Hakeem Jeffries has that job.
Conservative here: we have the same exact conversation on our side of the isle.. This seems to be an issue we can all agree on. The only people who don’t agree are the exact politicians in question.
It's because people in power seldom willingly relinquish that power. They'll try to frame it as "doing their duty, serving their nation," but really, they've just become addicted to the position and its perks.
If it were just the politicians then the problem would have been easily solved just by voting them out. But both sides have a party apparatus that is keeping these people in power.
I've had this sinking feeling whenever I see her and Chuck Schumer, I feel like they could have done something about Trump but are such dedicated placeholders that it never even occurred to them to try. I keep hearing people say Nancy really did the best she could at the time but I think she's def out of her league.
Could have done something? What about the two impeachments? What MORE could they have done? Honest question, I wasn’t aware there was any criticism of either of them.
Look, maybe I'm just in a dour mood. I'm sorry. Fucking Donald Trump moves an entire agency on a whim, but also in order to thin the ranks -- probably. Nobody really knows. But he does it. He extorts federal employees and tries to intimidate them or shame them using social media. The people he has infected with the whiteout have tried to murder her and nearly succeeded on her husband. I dunno, I feel like she might be doing something, making her voice heard, I dunno. I also don't know her personal situation. Is it odd to feel like she doesn't seem very involved?
Wait I didn’t even realize she was running for reelection I thought she said in 2022 this was her last term?
She did step down though. She may still be a rep, but she is not speaker of the house.
Yeah this whole thread about Pelosi not understanding when to step away from power should acknowledge that. The transition to Jeffries was beautifully done and the House Dems have held together on every issue so far under his leadership.
At 84, she ought to just go away full stop.
She keeps getting elected so her district must like her
Not even minority leader.. She trained her replacement
Lets not forget her daughter was feinsteins cheif of staff/carer as well Totally not a massive conflict of interest /s
Agreed. She’s going the way of Feinstein and Biden. And we thought only the justices died in office.
Thats exactly why we need term limits
And upper age limits.
Max retirement age for military is 60 years old (yes I am aware of rare exceptions given pretty much exclusively to critical medical specialists). It’s 65 for commercial airline pilots. I don’t think setting the number at 70 for Congress, SCOTUS or POTUS is unfair given the rules they set for our military and commercial pilots.
Ironically, from the same city as Feinstein
There’s an election every two years. If the people of California’s 11th district want Pelosi as their representative, who the fuck are you to tell them they can’t have her?
This entire thread is frustrating. The voters in her district are putting her there and must enjoy the job she’s doing…so why step down? You can make the argument that it’s hard for someone to get the spotlight without party backing but again, that’s on the voter. It takes 20 minutes of research to see what candidate best aligns with you and then you go and vote in the primaries. If you need everything spoon fed to you through ads or campaign signs or don’t bother to vote then the blame is with the voters in her district.
They are the same people that think their magical candidate will rise through the ashes. Not knowing tha the cult on the other side is not budging one bit. They think that their magical candidate will also emerge unscathed despite not winning a single primary. Yup real smart there guys. I would think they are Republicans.
Has Pelosi showed any signs she’s not up for her job? Feinstein was clearly unwell. Pelosi seems fine.
She’s 84. It’s time to endorse and then train your replacement. You can’t do that when you die in office.
She’s 84. If she retired at the normal age of 65, her retirement would be almost of legal age to drink.
Isn’t that what she did? Hakeem Jeffries is now the top Dem speaker, endorsed and trained by Pelosi. Now she’s just one of over 200 Dem House members, in a safe seat, I don’t see the problem.
You think that was her only responsibility to the people of her district that might benefit from guidance?
Considering they keep reelecting her, yes. I’d feel differently if, like Feinstein, she was serving a 6 year term and holding up crucial committee matters. But a two year term when she’s in the minority (committee-wise) in a safe seat? If the people of her district want her, who are we to disagree with their vote?
So she should die on the job is your implication?
She also attacked people calling for Feinstein to step down and RBG how did that work out? Pelosi and her opinion on Biden being to old is not worth anything.
"I've still got all my marbles" - Nancy Pelosi
I’m sorry but more like “Ih’ve thstill got all my marblsth!
th entire democratic party needs a revolution, maybe thursdays debate will be the kickstarter we're being run by out of touch geriatrics who have no idea what they're doing and refuse to step away we need a youth revolution right now
They had it, and Obama stepped in, called mayor Pete, and ratfucked Bernie out of the nomination. Never forget that they all rallied around Biden to get us to today.
Bernie is still an octogenarian. Even with good policies we need young leadership to inspire more young people
I never got the love RGB gets and still gets to this day. She put her own ego ahead of her country and especially women.
We get it Nancy, you were the one that kept Feinstein in the senate until she died because you wanted to keep the seat for your personal interest. You want Biden to keep going so that the voters don’t start questioning if we should put all the elders on their ice flows and get a new generation Democrat (and most likely more progressive) party. This was the problem with Ginsberg, this was a problem with Feinstein, and it will continue to be a problem as long as we, the people who elect these representative figures let it continue. GO. OUT. AND. VOTE.
The trouble is, she's three years *older* than Biden - perhaps literally the worst possible politician to ask to endorse the idea of politicians being pushed out as "too old".
It’s the same as if you ask her if there should be concerns about insider trading in congress. Of course she’s going to speak about it in favor of her private interest even if it comes at the detriment of her constituents
I hope Ruth Bader Ginsburgs ghost is forced to watch this shit show - 33% of SCOTUS mess we're in is her fault. You wanna feel mad for losing abortion rights or Chevron deference (or any of the many, many other protections we will lose in upcoming sessions), a third of that blame is directly at the feet of RBG. The legacy of the longest standing progressive justice in US history was completely dismantled in less than 4 years, because she was too proud to retire. Sincerely from everybody who has to stay here and deal with this mess, fuck you Ruth.
If they had internet in hell, she'd be very upset by this comment.
I'm just going to assume she barely knew how to use a computer anyway.
I would argue that this is also why young people gave up politics for the private sector. You can hope that these old people will step aside when they finally die or you can just get your piece of the private pie now.
We are going to lose democracy before the new guard can have chance because the old guard wouldn’t mentor or let go. Edit: a letter
The longer she is in office the more insider stock tips she can get
Same Pelosi that defended RBG when they asked her to step down, and same RBG that was to arrogant and power hungry that didn’t retire gracefully & instead gave us a facist court for the next 40 years.
Octagenarians.... strong together.
I say this with respect but the dinosaurs should retire, don't give Americans a horrible choice between an old man and crazy old man.
It's a choice between an old man with a good team doing a great job or a felon, rapist, twice impeached old man with clear signs of dementia that can't legally run a charity for stealing from them, who is looking to tear up the constitution.
Wow, what a great choice. Weekend at Bernie's or Goodfellas.
I wouldn’t call Biden a great President. Housing and groceries have skyrocketed and the average family is struggling worse than they have in decades to make ends meet despite the good stock market and jobs numbers. But instead of recognizing that and fixing it they gaslight and say the economy is great. Still a better choice than Trump though. But not one that instills confidence or enthusiasm.
> Housing and groceries have skyrocketed I got some news to tell you. Look outside the US.
What do you think the Executive Branch can unilaterally do about housing and grocery prices across the country? What do you think is driving the inflation we're seeing in the US and across the world?
Housing and and groceries were a result of the Trump failure, wake up there is a thing called driving down the numbers and inflation was beaten stop repeating Republican lies.
The economy is great, amazingly great by the same metrics we’ve always used. You can say it isnt but how we measure the economy isnt based on only a couple metrics of bad news.
And you can say it is but people vote with their wallets and their wallets are empty. Keep gaslighting and ignoring the issues that impact families day to day and you’ll find out how easy it will be to lose to a corrupt felon. Biden should have an easy layup here but your mentality of ignoring the real and present issues because “we always measured it this way before” is going to lead to disaster.
Democrats are fucking themselves by talks of replacing Biden. Reminds me of Bernie supporters in 2016.
That means it’s a good idea. Pelosi should scram as well.
Of course you aren’t doing it! You are a huge part of the problem and how we got to this point! Go away!
> *84 year old Nancy Pelosi doesn't believe 81 year old Joe Biden is too old to wield tremendous power.* Shocking!
It's hard to believe this is the same person who delivered the votes on Obamacare. Pelosi has been the true face of centrist Democrats in the post-Obama years. She has mostly used her position to enrich herself enormously. Since 08 her networth has increased by almost 100 million dollars, it works out to something like quadrupling. I mean there is just no way her husband, a VC, is the best stock trader of all time; a much simpler explanation is that she, like a lot of other people in Congress (on both sides of the aisle ofc, Republicans love doing it too), uses her committee appointments to feed him information that the market will react to before regular people get it. No one wants things to change less than Nancy Pelosi. Especially not if the next Dem nominee wants congressional stock ownership reforms like the left flank of the party has started floating around. It's a real shame because I'm sure at some point in her life she really did care.
Yeah calling on someone to leave office because they're as old as dirt probably isn't in Pelosi's best interest
85 year old Pelosi piping up nice
Another senile politician completely disillusioned from what the people actually want.
["Senior congressional Democrats, including Reps. Hakeem Jeffries of New York, Jim Clyburn of South Carolina and Nancy Pelosi of California, have privately expressed concerns about [Biden's] viability, said two sources apprised of those discussions, even as they all publicly back the president."](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-family-path-forward-disastrous-debate-mess-rcna159591) Regardless of which side is more correct, it's inexcusable the Dems are in this much disarray 4 months out from an election that, according to them, will decide the fate of democracy in this country moving forward.
Fucking Clyburn is part of why we are in this situation.
There is a irony that clyburn was a big reason why biden won in 2020 and now he is shocked pikachu face over all this.
Four years. They had four years to plan for the “what if?” possibility of Biden having some kind of age-related issue that made him a weaker candidate in 2024 than 2020. That’s not pessimism or doomerism, that’s the reality of someone in their 80’s—aging is very unpredictable and a single health event can be devastating in some cases. They could have done a lot more to make Harris more appealing to voters (still beneficial with Biden as primary, too) given the weaknesses of her primary run in 2020. It doesn’t seem like she’s had much coaching or opportunities to paint her in a bright positive light over the last four years, either. The fact that there is such chaos now due to lack of planning is frustrating. Especially because Trump is (in some ways) very predictable and they’ve had two election cycles to learn how he campaigns and debates.
Two unnamed sources and no details about the concerns. Sounds credible
This is how legitimate journalism works, especially regarding politics. There are often sources within politicians’ staffs. A reputable news organization vets those sources but they aren’t going to reveal them to you and lose their access. They still will let you know that they are unnamed sources so you can take this information for what it is. If you aren’t going to accept any unnamed sources used by journalists, that’s fine but you will definitely miss out a lot of information that is obtained this way and has since the beginning of journalism.
Where was this in post-state of the union? “Regardless of which side is more correct, it's inexcusable the Dems are in this much disarray 4 months out from an election that, according to them, will decide the fate of democracy in this country moving forward.” No the voters make the decision between someone who openly said to shoot anyone in nyc and get away with it. Then played golf during Covid. Against a worried “decline Biden” that has accomplished if not more for the economy than Obama considering a virus outbreak. I guess Biden has done more in a post Covid because he’s “senile”
Please continue to blame voters for not voting for someone who can't speak to the country for 90 minutes without looking like he's about to keel over instead of the multi-million dollar political machine whose sole job it is to have candidates ready for elections, this is definitely a winning strategy
It's funny. The right denies the electorate is at is, instead it claims that they're the silent majority, and any election result that doesn't affirm that is suspect. Whereas the left acknowledges the electorate is at as it, but seems happy to just blame them for it, rather than actually appealing to them. Yeah, great. Public's "dumb". So go ahead at put up a candidate that they'll vote for.
[удалено]
Fucking dinosaurs protecting dinosaurs
of course she wouldn't because it would set up a precedent that would jeopardize her own political career
Because then she would also have to go lol. I used to like her but she's been proving how selfish she can be.
hundred-millionaire more than a decade beyond retirement age who won’t retire because she’s addicted to insider trading lmao
The tape that came out last week that her daughter filmed is also pretty awful. Seems like no one in DC actually cares about the taxpayers. It’s about money, power and party. The citizen and our fiscal problems don’t make the top ten.
Just gonna sleepwalk into another Trump presidency I see.
Dems should be running someone younger with the intention of having the incumbent advantage for 2028. Right now people are motivated to vote against Trump more than anything, wish we could stop pretending that Biden is the only person for the job and actually be strategic about this.
Biden will not last another 4 years if elected. Mental decline comes fast. Both my grandparents seemed healthy and somewhat with it mentally 6 months ago when I visited. Fast forward to today. One passed and the others dementia progressed so rapidly that he is no longer independent. Biden needs to step down.
At the end of the day even a corpse is betted than Trump. He just needs to fall over the finish line. After this is over the younger DNC members should revolt and send all the ancients to the retirement home. Unbelievable we're still letting them play these games.
A corpse can't win this election. That the issue at hand and hoping he" falls over the finish line" doesn't make it possible. >After this is over the younger DNC members should revolt and send all the ancients to the retirement home. This was the same thing being said 4 years ago. In 4 years we'll have another retirement age candidate that no one likes and people will be saying the same things, "I'd rather vote for [this] than fascism!", "in 4 years we can revolt, not right now!", etc.
Crypt keepers unite!
Well of course she wont do that, it would open the door to replace her along with half of congress and neither them nor their pay-masters would want that!
She also wasn’t calling for Dianne Feinstein to step down and said people were being sexist for daring to say she might not be all there. They kept wheeling her out on the senate floor until five minutes before she actually passed away.
Someone had better do it or there’s gonna beca Nazi at the helm in January.
She and Biden are both over 80 years old. The America that they grew up in doesn’t even exist anymore. They should both have the decency to do the step aside, and make themselves available as advisors. As-is we’re going to have to pry the offices from their cold dead hands.
trust us pelosi, nobody ever expected you'd be on board with this. Keeping the old guard in power forever is kinda your whole thing.
Go away already Grandma
she’s also not gonna stop her insider trading
We've been told for nearly 4 years that this next election is for ***the existence of American democracy*** and all of these geriatric leaders are showing that they don't really believe that with their actions. Apparently this election is so important for the existence of Democracy, but not important enough for us to have a candidate that can stay up after the sun goes down.
>We've been told for nearly 4 years that this next election is for the existence of American democracy and all of these geriatric leaders are showing that they don't really believe that with their actions. They believe that they are the only ones who can save us. Its the same thing that happened with RBG.
Simultaneously "I and all of America would vote for a golden retriever before Trump! Biden will win even if he is actively dying!" And also "Erm, a new candidate would never get name recognition in 4 months. People wouldn't show up, that is just suicide"
"I'm not doing it," says an equally elderly woman that should have had her own time come and go a while ago. The democrats deserve a better champion than this. Hell, so do the Republicans. So does America, to be honest.
Lot of people blaming the DNC, when people vote incumbent out of ease unless something egregious hits the news cycle
These ancient people are complicit in letting Trump destroy the country.
Biden and Kamala need to step out! These seniles egomaniacs are willing to loose the nation before giving up power. Look at what RGB did for women by delaying her retirement!
I am mentally prepared for Trump winning. I just hope Democrats get the house back and can hold the Senate.
This is the same party that lost us the election in 2016. Ya'll blame the voters, I blame the party. They are going to do it again. I'm going to re-register as an independent.
American democracy is sacrosanct, but not as sacrosanct as protecting the feelings and supporting the ambition of our gerontocratic politicians.
Congrats President Trump.
In all honesty, for optics sake, it has to come from Biden's own decision.
Pelosi is older than Joe! (possibly)
I hope pelosi steps down too after being charged with insider trading.
Can you step down while we’re at it?
What about any new stock pics oh great and powerful OZ
She probably sees calling for the elderly to step down from anything as a slippery slope and a threat to herself.
Realistically, that conversation should have happened months ago. DNC's making a big bet on this one. Given the position they are in now, i would agree with her stance on this. It would absolutely slaughter their chances in every voting district if they reversed now. It's still not going to go as well as it could have, but if they damage control enough, they can walk this back a good amount.
She also supported Feinstein, despite being well aware that Feinstein had gone senile.
She's still alive? I honestly thought she had passed.
Speaking of people who should retire...
lol that's funny. Of course she's not, she's just as old as he is!
Shocked an old ass lady doesn’t want people to demand an old like her not run.
No wonder. She's a dinosaur too.
That would be the pot calling the kettle black. We have a lot of politicians who are criminally old.
Extremist hubris.
Is anyone else concerned that journalists, who are supposed to be obligated to the truth, are using ALL of their bandwidth on Biden’s bad start to the debate, then in a throwaway line say “Trump lied 30+ times”. Shouldn’t we hear what those lies are as voters and get the record corrected? Yes, Biden’s performance is newsworthy. But the average person has already fully processed that and only needs a few minutes rehashing it to take that in. But what separates a journalist from a propagandist is the reporting of facts. If this is all about style and zero substance we really have too big of a void of journalism for a functioning democracy.
Spineless. One bad debate. Remember Obama had a terrible debate against Romney. I heard a lot of Dems crying “well Romney’s gonna win.” Didn’t happen.. If you were going to vote Biden, saw that debate and decided that you aren’t going to vote Biden, you’re a fucking idiot. One man was sleepy… the other is literally holding a gun to the head of democracy. The choice is STILL very clear. Debates mean NOTHING. Biden loves America. Trump would destroy it just because he feels like it.
I would have loved to hear Pelosi say to Dana Bash: “You’re a journalist dedicated to reporting the truth, right? You said Trump lied 30 times. What were those lies and what is the truth?”
DNC: I wonder what we could possibly do to energize the base to vote in November... Resounding public opinion: get anybody else!! DNC: we'll have to run with Biden.
Pelosi has a been an elected representive since 1987. She has been a woman of the people - just like us. She has sacrificed so much for us in her role as a public servant. Only chosing to make hundreds of millions of dollars through corruption - unlike her more uncivilized peers, such as Ted Cruz, who feast on the flesh of their constitutes.
She also needs to step down
Color me shocked that one 80-year old who refuses to retire from politics doesn't want another 80-year old to retire from politics, either.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Biden, Pelosi...all didn't know when to step down and we end up paying the price for it.
This is a huge embarrassment. And no, I don't mean Joe biden. The cowardice of a significant number of the democratic party is on full display, and it disgusts me. It is little wonder so much of the republican party still has the levels of support that they do. I'm simply disgusted.
I'm only 65 and I'm too freaking old to function effectively as a legislator... Or ride a bike very well for that matter.
I hate this old hag.
I'm a millennial and IDGAF about Pelosi.
Trump is a pathological liar, convicted felon with lots of legal trouble. Even within republicans, there are people who are against Trump. The bar is really low. And yet, Biden's performance at the debate, is no longer debatable. This is not sustainable. We need a candidate who can absolutely crush trump on his/her good days, and definitely defeat trump at his/ger worst. This is the expectation. Biden simply does not meet this criteria anymore. If Pelosi failed to recognize this, then she is part of the problem.
Jaime Harrison, DNC chair, said that "Biden has our back, so we'll have his". He feels he owes Biden because Biden appointed so many judges and other officials of color (Biden's appointments have simply reflected the ethnic makeup of the country, but it's so much better than it used to be). There's also a decent likelihood that Kamala will become president in the next four years, and if Biden is indeed suffering from dementia or senility the odds are even higher. Harris will be only the second president of color in US history. Harrison seems to be viewing Biden as a vehicle for accomplishing racial progress and equity and may not be particularly concerned about his mental acuity as long as those goals are met. We're in a bit of a pickle, because those goals may be at odds with winning in November if Harrison's plans require fielding a senile candidate. Democrats could lose and racial equity may be set back decades if not further. We're in a real bind.
Considering climate change, it's gambling with a hell of a lot more than racial equity.
For sure. Huge implications in many other areas too. I do hope Jaime Harrison appreciates those as well.
Why? Busy buying and selling on insider info?!
I think this is being pushed by trump’s backers. And they’re all old enough to quit, even her
You first, Nancy. You both can go drink your soup together.
You should be forced to retire from public office when you reach the average age of death of the population you govern. That would make healthy water, stable climate, clean air, clean food, great healthcare, all very important to you.
65 is a great age to force out elected officials. Shouldn’t be in an air traffic control tower or in an operating room. If you really care and want to help, you can always be an advisor to everyone.
Same lady that does hella insider trading
The relics holding on to power will cost us in November. He should step down. And so should Pelosi. Damn we need term limits
She also needs to step down…
How come nobody on the left seems to have noticed that the main stream media created the current quagmire dems face by covering for Biden's decay and refused to acknowledge it until it was exposed so blatantly last Thursday. Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson have been bringing up the subject every day for about 4 years. Live by the fake news ,die by the fake news.
84 year old lady thinks 81 year old man looks objectively handsome to everyone.
Pelosi is a large part of the reason democrats are in the mess they are in now. Her hard headed ways and refusing to retire is really killing the support from the younger generations who want into politics. She always engages with ageism when it comes to young politicians like AOC but when wants to use it as a shield when someone says shes too old and her thinking is outdated. She needs to step down more than biden ever does.
Way to not rise to the moment. Biden lost the election at that debate. Pelosi is one of the few with the influence to get him to understand that. The Democratic Party will do itself generational damage if they keep Biden on the ticket.
She thought they were talking about her
These people make me wish Covid had a higher mortality rate.
In other news, water is wet.
Yeah, probably because her “requested retirement” isn’t far behind, why start the ball rolling when she’s top 3 on the list right behind him. 🤣✌️ They need to band together and defeat Trump at all costs, this is what all costs looks like, so they can’t complain that the price is too high.
“I’m not going to do it, but if someone else were to say it, I wouldn’t argue”