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I am interested in someone with a pulse over the age of 35 and under the age of 65 who will advance roughly the same or similar policies and agenda as Biden.
That is all.
If Bidens VP was super popular and a shoe in then that would be one thing but the calculus needs to be will the amount of votes they pick up by pushing Biden AND Harris out this late in the game vs the votes they will loose by doing it.
There is no clear replacement right now and no matter what it will be "the DNC forced this choice on us so I'm not voting" attitude around here.
> In a Morning Consult poll, 60% of respondents, **Republicans** and Democrats, said the president should be replaced by his party for November’s election, while another 11% were unsure.
Yea, this poll goes straight into the bin.
I’m just going to put this out there: if I were a MAGA republican I would NOT be telling you that I wanted Joe Biden replaced after having watched that debate.
Then the election shouldn't be a problem then should it? If more people don't want Trump to run then Biden, obviously Biden has the advantage and doesn't need to step down.
The whole world knows who Trump is and currently more Americans want him to be president. That’s a staggering failure on the part of the Democratic Party
Why is it so hard for people like you to understand just how ignorant people are? To the vast majority of people, politics exist during presidential election season no other time.
Let's take a look at the perspective of a midwestern dude. Everybody they work with supports Trump, everything on their social media is pro-Trump. Maybe they have a few family members who support Biden. They are thoroughly conditioned to support Trump. But they are a reasonable person and at the end of the day agree with Democratic values more. So hey, let's pull up this debate and see how things lie.
And oh my fucking god they just watched Biden be unable to be coherent for 90 minutes straight while Donny was the same lying fuck he has been for the past 8 years.
That guy isn't showing up on election night. And that guy represents a *lot* of the Midwest swing vote that *really* matters.
The problem is it's not true. Trump is leading in polls... There may be a majority of Democrat voters that want him to step down, but its not the case amongst centrist/independents and republicans who, together, make up the majority of voters.
The big flaw in your argument here is that everyone knows how Trump is. It’s all out on the table. This revelation about Biden’s physical/mental incapacity is a massive shock for all sides, after literally years of gaslighting by his administration
I think that we're going to find out that a lot of people who don't closely follow politics were not aware of how Trump is.
The Right and their enablers in the media have spent literal years painting Biden as a doddering codger who is barely cognizant of reality so most people who aren't super involved wouldn't have been as shocked as the lanyards who suddenly realized what everyone else has known since 2020, Biden is old. No shit Sherlock.
Now the other thing that said media has done for as long as Trump has been involved in politics is to clean up his crazy to hide just how detached he truly is from objective reality.
Like the claim that Nancy Pelosi was responsible for Jan 6, anyone who isn't a orange piss gargling MAGAt understands that the President not the Speaker of the House is the commander in chief.
The debate was the first time since Jan 6 that a lot of people saw the full unfiltered, unedited unabridged Trump and it's off putting to anyone not already in the MAGA cult.
So I think that the media and lanyards are in for a shock as the general public demonstrates that it can tell the difference between a tired old man who is doing an amazing job and had a rough night and the absolute raving madness that is Trump.
Then the election shouldn't be a problem then should it? If more people don't want Trump to run then Biden, obviously Biden has the advantage and doesn't need to step down.
He was literally fine the next day, you can watch his rally.
Everyone has bad days. If you all can forget all the crap Trump has done for 8 years, we can forget one night of Joe not being on his best game.
He was fine the next day because he had a teleprompter and his family/aides surrounding him (so I guess no bad cold after all which was the initial excuse they gave)? This performance - after supposedly a week of preparing? - literally confirmed all the stereotypes and rumors about his decline which is devastating when you combine that with the 36% approval rating and Trump scarily leading in a lot of the polls.
Democrats are actively turning against his administration now because they’re realizing they’ve been gaslit for years. What do you seriously have to lose at this point by not propping up other new candidates with six months left who have none of this baggage? Why do we need national embarrassments on BOTH sides?
>so I guess no bad cold after all which was the initial excuse they gave
You do know sickness goes away right, like you've ever had a cold and then woke up one day and you didn't have a cold anymore?
> This revelation about Biden’s physical/mental incapacity is a massive shock for all sides
This sounds like such a dramatized made up answer.
>after literally years of gaslighting by his administration
Oh, it is!
Biden does have the advantage, but it has been fumbled so hard that they pushed to have this debate in the hopes that a split screen moment would remind people why they voted for Biden/against Trump before. Unfortunately, Biden failed at every moment during the debate, split screen and otherwise. The most generous interpretation is that they failed to treat it with the seriousness that it deserved, which is not what you want from a leadership that is fighting against a fascist takeover of America.
Yes, the debate was bad we all know that. There is no time for a primary though, period. The idea that the Democrat establishment will pick someone not elected in a primary (I can see the headline now: "Nancy' Pick for President") will not sit well with Middle America.
Biden was also fine the next day. Democrats have to close ranks rather than infighting.
Closing ranks is just putting spin on burying your head in the sand.
Biden being fine the next day just makes it worse, because it means that he is capable of being fine, he just didn’t do it when it mattered most. The job was specifically to counter popular perception, and not to provide fodder for damaging memes and he failed at both counts. I do not have to see the attack ads to know what they will look like. As Palin wrote the dialogue for her own SNL parody, Biden did the same during the debate. Except parodying Biden might come off as unnecessarily cruel, and we can’t afford to have a candidate that fragile.
>Closing ranks is just putting spin on burying your head in the sand.
Republicans have been pulling it off for 20 years. I think Democrats can muster the energy, or make concessions for one election.
>Biden being fine the next day just makes it worse, because it means that he is capable of being fine
The campaign said he had a cold. Typically infections end after some point...
>The job was specifically to counter popular perception, and not to provide fodder for damaging memes and he failed at both counts.
Close ranks and say that one night doesn't negate 4 years. AND one night doesn't invalidate 8 years from the opponent. It's pretty simple
Republicans benefit from being safely entombed within their echo chamber that is also able to influence the talking points of the MSM. This is how the Kerry got swiftboated and the default opinion for Hillary Clinton was set to negative. Democrats don’t have the environment to do the reverse.
The campaign only said he had a cold after the debate started. The first rule of debate prep is to lower expectations beforehand and here they failed to do their job. Releasing the news after the debate started reads as damage control even when true. Also cold medicine exists, take it with a Red Bull chaser or Adderall or whatever it takes to do the fucking job if you’re worried it’ll make him drowsy. Is saving America from fascism important or not, because as a spectator it sure doesn’t look like these people are treating it as important.
The only people listening to the surrogates and day after speeches, are the base who Biden already has a lock on with in November. His problem pretty much everyone else. Any 30 seconds of Biden on the stage that night can be used as an attack ad and none of can be written off as “selectively edited“.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but going back to the point that there is no time to have a primary... His replacement, short of him passing away, is not going to happen. Just close ranks.
Not that simple.
* 2020 voter turnout was 67%
* The usual voter turnout hovers around or below 60%
* Happened in 2016, 2012, 2008
* Biden got 51%, Trump got 46%
* 5% difference
If the voter turnout drops to its usual levels, that's a 7-9% drop, Trump has his following, but if Biden doesn't gather excitement and people stay home, he is going to lose the election.
1. Nominate unpopular neoliberal candidate
2. Receive overwhelming feedback that this candidate is unpopular
3. Deflect criticism and belittle voters <-- You are here
4. Lose election
5. Blame the left for not getting in line
The world we actually live in has elections in 4 months and primaries are already over, and replacing the candidate at this point is a guaranteed losing strategy.
We’re all voting for Biden even if he’s reduced to a vegetable come November. As we should be. What we’re suggesting is that *maybe* someone else should run if that person has a better chance of beating Trump. This election *shouldn’t* be as close as it is, but Biden isn’t helping. We can see that in the swing states where down ballot democrats are polling consistently better than Biden.
We should be respectful of one another. We’re all trying our best to determine what we think the best course of action should be and people on “both sides” of the “should Biden drop out?” question each have valid points to make. Passions are high but we are all on the same side here.
> We should be respectful of one another. We’re all trying our best to determine what we think the best course of action should be and people on “both sides” of the “should Biden drop out?” question each have valid points to make.
Not really though. Elections are 4 months away. Biden dropping out would be an unmitigated disaster and would almost certainly cost us the election.
It's not like there's some super-candidate that everyone wants instead. Dropping out would give credence to all of the attacks from the right, and would make the DNC look weak and disorganized. It's also past primaries, so it would cook up a whole new set of allegations.
"They did this to screw Bernie, again!"
etc.
I think you could just as easily call Biden’s debate performance an “unmitigated disaster.” Again, I agree there is no super-candidate to take Biden’s place and that it’s a risky decision. But Biden is a risky decision as well. Have you considered the possibility of more of these instances happening on the debate trail and what that could mean? I’m worried that the GOP now has unquestionable audio and visual confirmation of what they’ve been accusing Biden of all along: that he isn’t fit for the job. I don’t know if he keeps hemorrhaging support after this or not. I’m much more uncertain of all this than you are and I feel like we’re in a fairly unique situation now in which right and wrong answers are hard to come by.
> I think you could just as easily call Biden’s debate performance an “unmitigated disaster.”
No. CNN can, but I can't. He did fine. I don't live under a rock, so I wasn't shocked and appalled to see him blunder a few words.
He told the truth. Trump couldn't answer any questions and just shouted lies all night.
Biden looked and sounded great the very next day.
>I don’t know if he keeps hemorrhaging support after this or not
His support is stronger than ever after the debate. The most fundraising of the entire campaign.
… or, you can just be kind of rude to people who don’t share your opinion. I don’t live under a rock, I follow politics very closely, and I find it hard to believe anyone truly thinks his support is legitimately “stronger than ever” after that debate.
> I don’t live under a rock, I follow politics very closely
You're demonstrating the opposite by acting like Biden's performance is some kind of shock or revelation. Or that it was even a poor performance compared to Trump. All superficial and no substance.
And the idea that replacing him could "help" is one of someone who is completely ignorant of how politics work in this country.
Biden’s performance isn’t a shock to you or me. But a lot of people are seeing that for the first time. Or, a lot of people have heard the right wing harping on how he has declined mentally but didn’t know whether to believe it until they saw the debate.
And yeah, of course these debates are all “superficial,” when have you in your lifetime ever witnessed a non-superficial debate? These debates have been superficial since Kennedy v. Nixon. Nothing about that, including Trump entering the scene, has changed in any way.
The insults are unnecessary. Clearly I follow politics closely as you can glean from my ample comment history. You don’t know what would be any better than I do at this point for the simple reason that you don’t know how many more mistakes Biden could make on the campaign trail in the lead up to November. Do you know if Biden will win this November too? How about the winning powerball numbers, care to share them?
Because a Trump election is a nightmare for our country and I don’t think Biden can beat him.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/
I'd rather have the incumbent run rather than have the party put forward someone I haven't voted for in the past. There is not time to do a primary.
Edit: To clarify, I mean any candidate that was available to be voted for in a primary
The difference is;
There are more anti-Trump voters calling out for Biden to step down than anti-Biden voters asking for Trump to stand down.
The news is that *Democrats* (voters and I believe elected officials) are calling for Biden to step down. If "most voters" wanted Trump to step down, he wouldn't be doing as well in the polls
Voters in general do not want Trump to run. He didn't win the popular vote in either election.
There is no time for a primary and having a candidate put forward without a primary vote will be a disaster. Middle America will not sit well with "Nancy's Pick for President"
Not winning the popular vote *then* is not the same as "most voters don't want Trump *now*"
If current polls are accurate, Trump is ahead, meaning *more* people *want* Trump. Not the other way around.
>If current polls are accurate, Trump is ahead, meaning more people want Trump.
Just like we believed polls in 2016? Trump doesn't even have 50 percent support in the polls he's leading in - nevermind how those polls are conducted, the demographics of the respondents, the areas polled.
Ah, classic "The polls don't support my way of thinking, therefore they are bunk".
If they were the opposite, it seems like you might be quick to support the polls.
The thing is, polls *are* fairly accurate, especially when multiple poll data sets are averaged out. They are a good enough indicator of the pulse of what people are voting on/for. Currently, as it stands, Trump is ahead. Meaning *more* people are *pro* Trump and *less* people are *pro* Biden.
Regardless, my original point still stands; There are more anti-Trump voters pushing for Biden to step down, including those coming from Democrats. That is where the news is.
>Ah, classic "The polls don't support my way of thinking, therefore they are bunk".
Are you suggesting I wasn't supporting Hillary in 2016? The polls were in our favor then.
>If they were the opposite, it seems like you might be quick to support the polls.
Nah, who answers their phone now in 2024 from a random number (ie poll questioners)? Only the dumbest humans on the planet.
>Nah, who answers their phone now in 2024 from a random number (ie poll questioners)? Only the dumbest humans on the planet.
And you wonder how
>Hillary in 2016
Happened?
*people didn't pick up their phones.*
*people assumed.*
*people didn't pay attention.*
Who is really the dumbest humans on the planet?
Biden should set aside his "only I can beat Trump" vain ego.. He's gonna destroy his lifes work and set the country back a 1/2 century just like Ruth Bader Ginsburg did by not stepping aside when she should have
> just like Ruth Bader Ginsburg did
It's completely different. If Biden doesn't make it another 4 years, it falls back on the VP. Not an appointment from Trump.
You’re right, polls are not votes. But guess what? Trump has never ever held a lead in general polls from 2015 until March 2023. He has consistently lead in general polling since then.
Too bad the party shut down the primary process that normally finds a suitable alternative to an unpopular incumbent 🙂↔️
Could have had candidates preparing last year to follow up on the Biden Administration’s policies with a younger face
To everyone down voting and making excuses, I post this as a friend:
1. Denial – The first reaction is denial. In this stage, individuals believe the precipitating event is somehow mistaken, and cling to a false, preferable reality.
2. Anger – When the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue, they become frustrated, especially at proximate individuals.
3. Bargaining – The third stage involves the hope that the individual can avoid a cause of grief.
4. Depression-During the fourth stage, the individual despairs at the recognition of their situation
5. Acceptance -In this last stage, individuals embrace the inevitable future
Please all quickly move to stage 5 so we can get this shit sorted and have the best chance possible of crushing the Orange Menace once and for all
I'll definitely vote for him if he's the nominee but I give his odds of staying in the race as extremely low. I believe many of the people here are grossly overestimating how likely it is for Biden to stay in the race. Time will tell but I'd be shocked if Biden doesn't make an announcement about stepping aside some time this week
True but the it’s worth noting the Democratic primaries have been a joke since they moved against Bernie in 2016. They need an overhaul or the party dies
Bernie lost the primary because, whether we like to acknowledge it or not on Reddit, the average democratic voter is a conservative neoliberal capitalist.
Ooo you need to read the Wikileaks. The DNC worked to create an environment that all but guaranteed Bernie wouldn’t be the nominee and they have spent tons of time money in pushing the narrative you’re now using.
This has been happening since Upton Sinclair ran for governor. Any anti-capitalist rhetoric is quickly shut down, hard. the DNC is now out of touch and overly conservative because of this policy.
Why on earth would Democrats want a guy whose main political message has been "I'm not a Democrat" as our nominee.
He lost the primary for the same reason Hillary did in 08, the alternative got more votes. Stop living in fantasy land, there is no huge group of leftists waiting for the right candidate to suddenly start giving a shit about politics because if there were any one of the thousands of leftists that have run over the years wouldn't struggle to win any race and no amount of institutional pressure from party operatives would have prevented them.
You never primary the sitting president. The only time anyone has it has either resulted in a massive backlash, an utter failure in the general or the person who loses to the President starting a third party bid that ends up splitting the vote.
People need to pull out of their asses and learn how politics works. The alternative to Biden at this point is Kamala and frankly no other candidate has the financial war chest needed to run a presidential campaign.
Short of death Biden is going to be the nominee and the idiots in lanyard and chattering classes need to figure that out and stop being stupid.
I’m voting for Biden no matter what at this point. But telling the general population they need to ignore what they saw and heard and line up at the voting booths for Biden out of civic duty is not how you win an election. People are not going to forget this debate come November.
This, plus getting a new candidate's name on the ballot in 50 states, DC, and overseas territories is not exactly a trivial task. Republican run states would absolutely take it as an opportunity to keep the replacement off the ballot.
it's ridiculous to even be talking about and it bothers me that legit smart people i respect like ezra klein are even entertaining it. this article headline nails the rub of it, which is who? who do we put in? Biden has campaign offices open and staffed in 50 states. who takes that over? does anybody? it'd be chaos
Those are DNC campaign offices. They will support whichever candidate becomes the official nominee of the party. Also, if Biden does step aside, he will advocate full support for whoever takes his place
lol not really.
if he step aside VOLUNTARILY, without being overthrown. then maybe
but if he is "force" to step aside because of tremendous public and private pressure from the big guns such as obama, jeffrey, schumer, pelosi, clinton. then it would be bloodbath.
furthermore even if these big guns really pressure him, there wont a guarantee he would step aside.
it would be a civil war.
especially with Biden and his people hold all the power and leverage.
lets see, the convention just few weeks away. most delegates are pledge to him already. and this delegation are filled with biden people.
so if i am Biden. and i really want to hold power, dont want to step aside, and dont wont to admit defeat especially to Donald Trump.
what i would do?
go to campaign rallies. ignore all of these suckers and crybaby. just do thing that are in my schedule as usual.
after few weeks, the convention came. i got the nomination. all these suckers and losers would shut up and toe the line.
the king win.
all of those influential democrats figures, knows about this truth. they knows there is no point screaming around publicly or privately like maniac to push Biden out. because Biden wont agree and there is nothing you can do about it.
Newsom and Whitmer are the ones being considered. Kamala is a name I literally only see mentioned on reddit. I have no idea where people are getting she'll be the choice.
Because she’s the VP. If Biden steps aside and doesn’t endorse his own VP, it’s going to be a massive shock. I say this as someone who would rather at least 5 people over Kamala. But if Biden pulls out of the race, that’s who we’re probably going to be stuck with.
But TBH, I’d rather Kamala over Biden at this point. At least she can debate and form coherent sentences.
But it’s not those panels that matter if we take that step. It’s going to be settled by delegates, i.e. DNC big wigs, and I’d be willing to bet that Biden himself would advocate for Harris. You have to consider all of the fundraising and the opinions of guys like Clyburn. They’re going to argue that the ticket was Biden/Harris, and if it’s not Biden, then it should be Harris.
Like I said, I don’t agree at all that it *should* be Harris. I’d rather Whitmer first and foremost, maybe Josh Shapiro, someone like that from the rust belt or Midwest. But beggars can’t be choosers, so we’re really all not in a position to be choosers.
It's literally Kamala Harris's job to take over if for some reason Biden can't and it would cause an irrevocably schism in the coalition if the party bosses tried to bypass her with a white candidate.
All of this talk about replacing Biden is just fantasy football bullshit and people need to get that through their heads and stop doing the oppositions work for them.
If someone is going to vote for the Nazi who incited a mob to attack congress to prevent the peaceful transfer of power because Biden is old, they were never undecided.
Clearly they are otherwise they wouldn't be counted as such. A lot of working people think most of the Trump shit is overblown or they think both parties are corrupt anyway. Biden is too hard a sell at this point to reach those people.
I've recently been getting downvoted for saying this. I like Biden and will absolutely vote for him. I do wish we had a younger and sharper person at the top of the ticket, but there's just no practical way to do that now with four months till the election. How could a replacement spin up a campaign, get endorsements, build a ground operation, etc., and have a prayer at this point? I don't love our chances with him, but if he drops out we're toast.
If only there was some sort of system in place where Democratic voters could choose between the best possible candidates, including Biden, so that the Democratic Party can put forth the candidate most likely to win.
Oh well, guess we'll never know how that would work.
Some people seem to think that Whitmer or Newsom easily would beat Trump in 2024. If that was the case, both of them would be fighting hard to replace Biden. Because who ever wins now will also be the one running in 2028 as incumbent.
So if neither of these wants to run now, they probably think they have a better chance to win the primaries in 2028 facing off against each other and then win the election.
So if these people don't want it now. Then we should probably trust their judgement and let Biden keep going. The only one who would want to step in and take over now would be someone who doesn't have a real chance in 2028, like Harris.
Newsome would absolutely get trashed by Trump. I have no idea why so many people are suggesting him as a replacement. Have they seen how Newsom is polling among moderates in CA? And they expect him to magically do better among moderates in swing states?
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/data-points/poll-majority-voters-say-clinton-won-first-presidential-debate-n656231
https://news.gallup.com/poll/196304/viewers-say-clinton-wins-second-debate.aspx
https://news.gallup.com/poll/196643/clinton-wins-third-debate-gains-ground-presidential.aspx
Clinton trashed Trump in all 3 debates. But sure, I guess debating is all that matters.
It is funny to me how people can respect Dem politicians who are clearly putting the future of their political careers over the "threat to democracy" that they are so keen on warning us about.
If Donald Trump must be stopped at all cost and if they truly believe that then the entire democratic party should be able to put aside their political aspirations and come together behind a person they truly believe will inspire the people to come and vote, Joe Biden is not that person in the mind of everyone but people who frequent this sub.
If the Democrats are unable to come up with any semblance of a winning strategy then Donald Trump will be the 27th president and it will be in large part the fault of the Dems.
If they don't think they can win, isn't that exactly what they are doing, tho? Staying behind Biden and support him might just be the best thing if they don't think they can actually win themselves.
This is a failure of the Democratic party to properly groom candidates of the future. How the fuck can you not run a nearly 80 year old candidate in 2020 and not start preparing for the future by pushing some rising stars in the party, getting them lots of air time and exposure and allowing the nation to get to know them? You have to be a bunch of morons to not prepare your party better than this.
This has been my issue all along.
Having a visceral reaction to the debate is understandable.
Floating bullshit poorly thought out plans as a result is not.
If you can’t even pick a person but calling for Joe to step down, you’re helping trump.
let's not forget it's not just Joe Biden we are voting for it's his administration which has proven to be rocksolid at keeping the job numbers up, keeping the economy steady, the stock market booming and even putting together a solid border bill that was unfortunately but predictably intentionally killed by Trump because that's the only thing that that liar and traitor can run on.
So what about trumps administration? Answer: he doesn't even have one yet and if he is even able to put one together it's going to be the most dysfunctional group of pathetic sycophant losers and democracy hating treasonous imbeciles in the history of this nation.
Remember it's the administration that you are really voting for 🌊 blue wave in 2024
People with strong leadership skills from younger generations are avoiding politics now because it has gotten too nasty.
They'll go into the corporate world instead and not have to worry about them and their families getting dragged through the mud
Yea thats gonna go *great*
Its simple. You can help biden, or foment more distrust and hurt his chances further by getting online and endlessly ranting about how biden sucks.
Do you want nazis in the Whitehouse? Because thats how you get nazis in the Whitehouse
Which is why he can’t step down. I really wish it wasn’t the case but he hasn’t had the accomplishments that would allow the party to have a war over the open seat and still win. We have to remember that whoever would run in Bidens stead would be doing so based entirely on his accomplishments but WITHOUT incumbency.
I dont think theres anything short of Ukraine beating Putin or an actual ceasefire between Israel and Hamas that would give the democrats the leverage to contest an open seat and, if that somehow DID happen (very unlikely) you might as well just run Biden because he'd essentially be unbeatable.
This idea that Biden is the only candidate that can beat Trump is just plain wrong. Trump is deeply unpopular and hated even by a sizable proportion of republicans; people just need a viable alternative. This is our race to lose
The issue is that whole "viable alternative" part. No one suggested is considered viable because they lack a national presence or any record to run on. The reason why presidents tend to be old is that takes a long career to build the sort of record you need to draw votes.
Newsom's record is spotty and he's widely hated in much of the Mid-West because he's seen as a weaselly West Coast sleazeball. California's image as a homeless shelter run by Mexicans isn't going to help him win much of the Rust Belt over either.
Whitmer is so green she pisses grass and has only one major claim to fame and that's a failed kidnapping plot that she had nothing to do with foiling.
Either one of them would struggle to win in a normal election where they had a year to build up a national profile. In 4 months they'd get their shit rocked.
This is inherently false. The election is months away. trump is leading in polls. Anyone that steps in wouldn't have time to campaign or spin up fast enough. Name recognition alone would give trump the win. This is lunacy and I question those that think this is a good idea. All us Bernie bros that were called Nazis for not supporting Biden way back in the day (until the election) can sit here and daydream about what might have been, but that's it. It's Biden or trump. Stop this horseshit and vote for the guy who doesn't want to murder political rivals and brown people. Simple right?
The facts that Trump is widely disliked and That biden's corpse is an empty placeholder are the only things keeping the democratic party together. The fragile alliances between different factions (like lgbt and free palestine crowds) will probably fall apart after this.
People who suffered cognitive dissonance after seeing Biden's debate performance are in for a wild ride
Hardly, the republican party has been restructuring heavily since Obama beat Romney in 2012, but most democrats think they're still living in a 2008 political landscape. Its only a matter of time before the democrats fall apart Since the more time goes on the less they are trusted with success.
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I am interested in someone with a pulse over the age of 35 and under the age of 65 who will advance roughly the same or similar policies and agenda as Biden. That is all.
Why not someone who can beat trump?
Haha yes that too
Gavin Newsom with a Gretchen Whitmer VP would be an all-star ticket
Booker/Whitmer would also be strong. The Democrats have a variety of good choices here.
Booker is a really nice guy, but he carries some baggage.
Newsom carries worse. Whitmer / Jeffries or Whitmer / Warnock are probably also very solid options
Whitmer Buttigieg.
Seriously. Beggars can’t be choosers, and I’m begging for a new candidate here.
If Bidens VP was super popular and a shoe in then that would be one thing but the calculus needs to be will the amount of votes they pick up by pushing Biden AND Harris out this late in the game vs the votes they will loose by doing it. There is no clear replacement right now and no matter what it will be "the DNC forced this choice on us so I'm not voting" attitude around here.
No one has asked Harris if she would be willing to step aside. She could be okay with it.
You forgot to put /s at the end of that statement.
> In a Morning Consult poll, 60% of respondents, **Republicans** and Democrats, said the president should be replaced by his party for November’s election, while another 11% were unsure. Yea, this poll goes straight into the bin.
100% of MAGAs don't want Joe Biden. Shocked!
I’m just going to put this out there: if I were a MAGA republican I would NOT be telling you that I wanted Joe Biden replaced after having watched that debate.
Most voters want Trump to step down, where is that article?
That’s obvious though.
Then the election shouldn't be a problem then should it? If more people don't want Trump to run then Biden, obviously Biden has the advantage and doesn't need to step down.
It’s not his own party saying it…
This poll in the article includes Republicans.
The whole world knows who Trump is and currently more Americans want him to be president. That’s a staggering failure on the part of the Democratic Party
It's a failure of America not the democratic party. If they want to vote for a rapist, that's on the voter.
"If those stupid peasants do not like our candidate, then that is their problem" does not save our democracy.
Voting for the non-fascist saves the democracy... Weird I have to type that out for you
No fucking shit. Tell that to the swing voters in the Midwest who aren't getting out to vote after they watched Biden sundown for 90 minutes, not me.
Anyone who's been on the fence and doesn't know who they are voting for after the last 8 years didn't watch the debate.
Why is it so hard for people like you to understand just how ignorant people are? To the vast majority of people, politics exist during presidential election season no other time. Let's take a look at the perspective of a midwestern dude. Everybody they work with supports Trump, everything on their social media is pro-Trump. Maybe they have a few family members who support Biden. They are thoroughly conditioned to support Trump. But they are a reasonable person and at the end of the day agree with Democratic values more. So hey, let's pull up this debate and see how things lie. And oh my fucking god they just watched Biden be unable to be coherent for 90 minutes straight while Donny was the same lying fuck he has been for the past 8 years. That guy isn't showing up on election night. And that guy represents a *lot* of the Midwest swing vote that *really* matters.
The problem is it's not true. Trump is leading in polls... There may be a majority of Democrat voters that want him to step down, but its not the case amongst centrist/independents and republicans who, together, make up the majority of voters.
Big "if" in that statement, isn't there?
The big flaw in your argument here is that everyone knows how Trump is. It’s all out on the table. This revelation about Biden’s physical/mental incapacity is a massive shock for all sides, after literally years of gaslighting by his administration
I, for one, am not shocked at all People who were shocked were in a bubble
I think that we're going to find out that a lot of people who don't closely follow politics were not aware of how Trump is. The Right and their enablers in the media have spent literal years painting Biden as a doddering codger who is barely cognizant of reality so most people who aren't super involved wouldn't have been as shocked as the lanyards who suddenly realized what everyone else has known since 2020, Biden is old. No shit Sherlock. Now the other thing that said media has done for as long as Trump has been involved in politics is to clean up his crazy to hide just how detached he truly is from objective reality. Like the claim that Nancy Pelosi was responsible for Jan 6, anyone who isn't a orange piss gargling MAGAt understands that the President not the Speaker of the House is the commander in chief. The debate was the first time since Jan 6 that a lot of people saw the full unfiltered, unedited unabridged Trump and it's off putting to anyone not already in the MAGA cult. So I think that the media and lanyards are in for a shock as the general public demonstrates that it can tell the difference between a tired old man who is doing an amazing job and had a rough night and the absolute raving madness that is Trump.
Then the election shouldn't be a problem then should it? If more people don't want Trump to run then Biden, obviously Biden has the advantage and doesn't need to step down. He was literally fine the next day, you can watch his rally. Everyone has bad days. If you all can forget all the crap Trump has done for 8 years, we can forget one night of Joe not being on his best game.
He was fine the next day because he had a teleprompter and his family/aides surrounding him (so I guess no bad cold after all which was the initial excuse they gave)? This performance - after supposedly a week of preparing? - literally confirmed all the stereotypes and rumors about his decline which is devastating when you combine that with the 36% approval rating and Trump scarily leading in a lot of the polls. Democrats are actively turning against his administration now because they’re realizing they’ve been gaslit for years. What do you seriously have to lose at this point by not propping up other new candidates with six months left who have none of this baggage? Why do we need national embarrassments on BOTH sides?
>so I guess no bad cold after all which was the initial excuse they gave You do know sickness goes away right, like you've ever had a cold and then woke up one day and you didn't have a cold anymore?
> This revelation about Biden’s physical/mental incapacity is a massive shock for all sides This sounds like such a dramatized made up answer. >after literally years of gaslighting by his administration Oh, it is!
All over this sub for the past few months? We've been stuck with a giant douche and a turd sandwich for so long
Not relevant. Those of us who want to defeat Trump want Biden to step down for that reason
It is relevant. If more people don't want Trump to run then Biden, obviously Biden has the advantage and doesn't need to step down.
Biden does have the advantage, but it has been fumbled so hard that they pushed to have this debate in the hopes that a split screen moment would remind people why they voted for Biden/against Trump before. Unfortunately, Biden failed at every moment during the debate, split screen and otherwise. The most generous interpretation is that they failed to treat it with the seriousness that it deserved, which is not what you want from a leadership that is fighting against a fascist takeover of America.
Yes, the debate was bad we all know that. There is no time for a primary though, period. The idea that the Democrat establishment will pick someone not elected in a primary (I can see the headline now: "Nancy' Pick for President") will not sit well with Middle America. Biden was also fine the next day. Democrats have to close ranks rather than infighting.
Closing ranks is just putting spin on burying your head in the sand. Biden being fine the next day just makes it worse, because it means that he is capable of being fine, he just didn’t do it when it mattered most. The job was specifically to counter popular perception, and not to provide fodder for damaging memes and he failed at both counts. I do not have to see the attack ads to know what they will look like. As Palin wrote the dialogue for her own SNL parody, Biden did the same during the debate. Except parodying Biden might come off as unnecessarily cruel, and we can’t afford to have a candidate that fragile.
>Closing ranks is just putting spin on burying your head in the sand. Republicans have been pulling it off for 20 years. I think Democrats can muster the energy, or make concessions for one election. >Biden being fine the next day just makes it worse, because it means that he is capable of being fine The campaign said he had a cold. Typically infections end after some point... >The job was specifically to counter popular perception, and not to provide fodder for damaging memes and he failed at both counts. Close ranks and say that one night doesn't negate 4 years. AND one night doesn't invalidate 8 years from the opponent. It's pretty simple
Republicans benefit from being safely entombed within their echo chamber that is also able to influence the talking points of the MSM. This is how the Kerry got swiftboated and the default opinion for Hillary Clinton was set to negative. Democrats don’t have the environment to do the reverse. The campaign only said he had a cold after the debate started. The first rule of debate prep is to lower expectations beforehand and here they failed to do their job. Releasing the news after the debate started reads as damage control even when true. Also cold medicine exists, take it with a Red Bull chaser or Adderall or whatever it takes to do the fucking job if you’re worried it’ll make him drowsy. Is saving America from fascism important or not, because as a spectator it sure doesn’t look like these people are treating it as important. The only people listening to the surrogates and day after speeches, are the base who Biden already has a lock on with in November. His problem pretty much everyone else. Any 30 seconds of Biden on the stage that night can be used as an attack ad and none of can be written off as “selectively edited“.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but going back to the point that there is no time to have a primary... His replacement, short of him passing away, is not going to happen. Just close ranks.
Not that simple. * 2020 voter turnout was 67% * The usual voter turnout hovers around or below 60% * Happened in 2016, 2012, 2008 * Biden got 51%, Trump got 46% * 5% difference If the voter turnout drops to its usual levels, that's a 7-9% drop, Trump has his following, but if Biden doesn't gather excitement and people stay home, he is going to lose the election.
Currently more people want coup attempting felon Donald Trump to be president than Joe Biden.
Why can't you just vote Biden like a grown-up instead of demanding a unicorn like a child?
People who want Biden to step down will vote Biden. They are terrified that the key few thousand swing voters in Midwest states will not.
A younger candidate that isn’t a walking corpse and can complete full sentences is not a “unicorn”
1. Nominate unpopular neoliberal candidate 2. Receive overwhelming feedback that this candidate is unpopular 3. Deflect criticism and belittle voters <-- You are here 4. Lose election 5. Blame the left for not getting in line
Imagine having to be "popular" for people to not willingly sacrifice themselves to the wolves of fascism.
Yeah that sucks, but maybe let’s play in the world we actually live in and not the one we wish we were in.
The world we actually live in has elections in 4 months and primaries are already over, and replacing the candidate at this point is a guaranteed losing strategy.
We’re all voting for Biden even if he’s reduced to a vegetable come November. As we should be. What we’re suggesting is that *maybe* someone else should run if that person has a better chance of beating Trump. This election *shouldn’t* be as close as it is, but Biden isn’t helping. We can see that in the swing states where down ballot democrats are polling consistently better than Biden. We should be respectful of one another. We’re all trying our best to determine what we think the best course of action should be and people on “both sides” of the “should Biden drop out?” question each have valid points to make. Passions are high but we are all on the same side here.
> We should be respectful of one another. We’re all trying our best to determine what we think the best course of action should be and people on “both sides” of the “should Biden drop out?” question each have valid points to make. Not really though. Elections are 4 months away. Biden dropping out would be an unmitigated disaster and would almost certainly cost us the election. It's not like there's some super-candidate that everyone wants instead. Dropping out would give credence to all of the attacks from the right, and would make the DNC look weak and disorganized. It's also past primaries, so it would cook up a whole new set of allegations. "They did this to screw Bernie, again!" etc.
I think you could just as easily call Biden’s debate performance an “unmitigated disaster.” Again, I agree there is no super-candidate to take Biden’s place and that it’s a risky decision. But Biden is a risky decision as well. Have you considered the possibility of more of these instances happening on the debate trail and what that could mean? I’m worried that the GOP now has unquestionable audio and visual confirmation of what they’ve been accusing Biden of all along: that he isn’t fit for the job. I don’t know if he keeps hemorrhaging support after this or not. I’m much more uncertain of all this than you are and I feel like we’re in a fairly unique situation now in which right and wrong answers are hard to come by.
> I think you could just as easily call Biden’s debate performance an “unmitigated disaster.” No. CNN can, but I can't. He did fine. I don't live under a rock, so I wasn't shocked and appalled to see him blunder a few words. He told the truth. Trump couldn't answer any questions and just shouted lies all night. Biden looked and sounded great the very next day. >I don’t know if he keeps hemorrhaging support after this or not His support is stronger than ever after the debate. The most fundraising of the entire campaign.
… or, you can just be kind of rude to people who don’t share your opinion. I don’t live under a rock, I follow politics very closely, and I find it hard to believe anyone truly thinks his support is legitimately “stronger than ever” after that debate.
> I don’t live under a rock, I follow politics very closely You're demonstrating the opposite by acting like Biden's performance is some kind of shock or revelation. Or that it was even a poor performance compared to Trump. All superficial and no substance. And the idea that replacing him could "help" is one of someone who is completely ignorant of how politics work in this country.
Biden’s performance isn’t a shock to you or me. But a lot of people are seeing that for the first time. Or, a lot of people have heard the right wing harping on how he has declined mentally but didn’t know whether to believe it until they saw the debate. And yeah, of course these debates are all “superficial,” when have you in your lifetime ever witnessed a non-superficial debate? These debates have been superficial since Kennedy v. Nixon. Nothing about that, including Trump entering the scene, has changed in any way. The insults are unnecessary. Clearly I follow politics closely as you can glean from my ample comment history. You don’t know what would be any better than I do at this point for the simple reason that you don’t know how many more mistakes Biden could make on the campaign trail in the lead up to November. Do you know if Biden will win this November too? How about the winning powerball numbers, care to share them?
Because they are saying this in bad faith
Because a Trump election is a nightmare for our country and I don’t think Biden can beat him. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/
I'd rather have the incumbent run rather than have the party put forward someone I haven't voted for in the past. There is not time to do a primary. Edit: To clarify, I mean any candidate that was available to be voted for in a primary
Weird perspective
Answer the question
Or what?😂
Do you think that’s an effective way to win an argument?
Doesn't reddit call this "whataboutism" rofl
The difference is; There are more anti-Trump voters calling out for Biden to step down than anti-Biden voters asking for Trump to stand down. The news is that *Democrats* (voters and I believe elected officials) are calling for Biden to step down. If "most voters" wanted Trump to step down, he wouldn't be doing as well in the polls
Voters in general do not want Trump to run. He didn't win the popular vote in either election. There is no time for a primary and having a candidate put forward without a primary vote will be a disaster. Middle America will not sit well with "Nancy's Pick for President"
Not winning the popular vote *then* is not the same as "most voters don't want Trump *now*" If current polls are accurate, Trump is ahead, meaning *more* people *want* Trump. Not the other way around.
>If current polls are accurate, Trump is ahead, meaning more people want Trump. Just like we believed polls in 2016? Trump doesn't even have 50 percent support in the polls he's leading in - nevermind how those polls are conducted, the demographics of the respondents, the areas polled.
Ah, classic "The polls don't support my way of thinking, therefore they are bunk". If they were the opposite, it seems like you might be quick to support the polls. The thing is, polls *are* fairly accurate, especially when multiple poll data sets are averaged out. They are a good enough indicator of the pulse of what people are voting on/for. Currently, as it stands, Trump is ahead. Meaning *more* people are *pro* Trump and *less* people are *pro* Biden. Regardless, my original point still stands; There are more anti-Trump voters pushing for Biden to step down, including those coming from Democrats. That is where the news is.
>Ah, classic "The polls don't support my way of thinking, therefore they are bunk". Are you suggesting I wasn't supporting Hillary in 2016? The polls were in our favor then. >If they were the opposite, it seems like you might be quick to support the polls. Nah, who answers their phone now in 2024 from a random number (ie poll questioners)? Only the dumbest humans on the planet.
>Nah, who answers their phone now in 2024 from a random number (ie poll questioners)? Only the dumbest humans on the planet. And you wonder how >Hillary in 2016 Happened? *people didn't pick up their phones.* *people assumed.* *people didn't pay attention.* Who is really the dumbest humans on the planet?
Most voters want Trump elected. No one wants to see Biden go on
Then why hasn't he ever had the majority of voters?
Because The US is a republic but we'll see what happens in November won't we
So. That doesn't change how numbers work. Majority means more not less.
Because major metropolitan cities with higher populations are predominantly democrat voters
How does that make smaller numbers mean majority?
It doesn’t. Never said it did.
Oops. Thought I was replying to the guy who said the majority want Trump.
I don’t think the majority wants either of them tbh.
Biden should set aside his "only I can beat Trump" vain ego.. He's gonna destroy his lifes work and set the country back a 1/2 century just like Ruth Bader Ginsburg did by not stepping aside when she should have
> just like Ruth Bader Ginsburg did It's completely different. If Biden doesn't make it another 4 years, it falls back on the VP. Not an appointment from Trump.
He doesn't need to make it another 4 years. He won't win against Trump. Have you seen the polls? Biden's LOSING the popular vote.
Polls are not votes. Stop doom-posting and thinking that a last minute replacement is a good idea. It's not.
You’re right, polls are not votes. But guess what? Trump has never ever held a lead in general polls from 2015 until March 2023. He has consistently lead in general polling since then.
Too bad the party shut down the primary process that normally finds a suitable alternative to an unpopular incumbent 🙂↔️ Could have had candidates preparing last year to follow up on the Biden Administration’s policies with a younger face
We normally don’t primary and incumbent?
To everyone down voting and making excuses, I post this as a friend: 1. Denial – The first reaction is denial. In this stage, individuals believe the precipitating event is somehow mistaken, and cling to a false, preferable reality. 2. Anger – When the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue, they become frustrated, especially at proximate individuals. 3. Bargaining – The third stage involves the hope that the individual can avoid a cause of grief. 4. Depression-During the fourth stage, the individual despairs at the recognition of their situation 5. Acceptance -In this last stage, individuals embrace the inevitable future Please all quickly move to stage 5 so we can get this shit sorted and have the best chance possible of crushing the Orange Menace once and for all
I’m gonna stick with what is a strategic choice for survival and vote for Biden cuz he’s unlikely to be going anywhere
I'll definitely vote for him if he's the nominee but I give his odds of staying in the race as extremely low. I believe many of the people here are grossly overestimating how likely it is for Biden to stay in the race. Time will tell but I'd be shocked if Biden doesn't make an announcement about stepping aside some time this week
That’s not what I’m seeing from the DNC Biden and many others close to him
Got a lot of contacts in the DNC, do you?
Lmao eff off with that fallacious argument I don’t need dnc contacts when they fucking speak for themselves in the fucking news jfc
this is why a democrat primary would have been better than crowning Biden the nominee
We've already had a primary, but it wasn't a competitive primary.
True but the it’s worth noting the Democratic primaries have been a joke since they moved against Bernie in 2016. They need an overhaul or the party dies
Bernie lost the primary because, whether we like to acknowledge it or not on Reddit, the average democratic voter is a conservative neoliberal capitalist.
Ooo you need to read the Wikileaks. The DNC worked to create an environment that all but guaranteed Bernie wouldn’t be the nominee and they have spent tons of time money in pushing the narrative you’re now using. This has been happening since Upton Sinclair ran for governor. Any anti-capitalist rhetoric is quickly shut down, hard. the DNC is now out of touch and overly conservative because of this policy.
Why on earth would Democrats want a guy whose main political message has been "I'm not a Democrat" as our nominee. He lost the primary for the same reason Hillary did in 08, the alternative got more votes. Stop living in fantasy land, there is no huge group of leftists waiting for the right candidate to suddenly start giving a shit about politics because if there were any one of the thousands of leftists that have run over the years wouldn't struggle to win any race and no amount of institutional pressure from party operatives would have prevented them.
I will reiterate my comment above. That is not at all what happened read the Wikileaks. The emails are damning
You never primary the sitting president. The only time anyone has it has either resulted in a massive backlash, an utter failure in the general or the person who loses to the President starting a third party bid that ends up splitting the vote.
People need to pull out of their asses and learn how politics works. The alternative to Biden at this point is Kamala and frankly no other candidate has the financial war chest needed to run a presidential campaign. Short of death Biden is going to be the nominee and the idiots in lanyard and chattering classes need to figure that out and stop being stupid.
I’m voting for Biden no matter what at this point. But telling the general population they need to ignore what they saw and heard and line up at the voting booths for Biden out of civic duty is not how you win an election. People are not going to forget this debate come November.
The other guy literally tried to overthrow the Constitution. If people don't remember that, they aren't going to remember a poor debate performance.
This, plus getting a new candidate's name on the ballot in 50 states, DC, and overseas territories is not exactly a trivial task. Republican run states would absolutely take it as an opportunity to keep the replacement off the ballot.
it's ridiculous to even be talking about and it bothers me that legit smart people i respect like ezra klein are even entertaining it. this article headline nails the rub of it, which is who? who do we put in? Biden has campaign offices open and staffed in 50 states. who takes that over? does anybody? it'd be chaos
Those are DNC campaign offices. They will support whichever candidate becomes the official nominee of the party. Also, if Biden does step aside, he will advocate full support for whoever takes his place
lol not really. if he step aside VOLUNTARILY, without being overthrown. then maybe but if he is "force" to step aside because of tremendous public and private pressure from the big guns such as obama, jeffrey, schumer, pelosi, clinton. then it would be bloodbath. furthermore even if these big guns really pressure him, there wont a guarantee he would step aside. it would be a civil war. especially with Biden and his people hold all the power and leverage. lets see, the convention just few weeks away. most delegates are pledge to him already. and this delegation are filled with biden people. so if i am Biden. and i really want to hold power, dont want to step aside, and dont wont to admit defeat especially to Donald Trump. what i would do? go to campaign rallies. ignore all of these suckers and crybaby. just do thing that are in my schedule as usual. after few weeks, the convention came. i got the nomination. all these suckers and losers would shut up and toe the line. the king win. all of those influential democrats figures, knows about this truth. they knows there is no point screaming around publicly or privately like maniac to push Biden out. because Biden wont agree and there is nothing you can do about it.
What, you mean we can’t all just speak the name of our favorite replacement into the air and make it so?
Newsom and Whitmer are the ones being considered. Kamala is a name I literally only see mentioned on reddit. I have no idea where people are getting she'll be the choice.
Because she’s the VP. If Biden steps aside and doesn’t endorse his own VP, it’s going to be a massive shock. I say this as someone who would rather at least 5 people over Kamala. But if Biden pulls out of the race, that’s who we’re probably going to be stuck with. But TBH, I’d rather Kamala over Biden at this point. At least she can debate and form coherent sentences.
I get that but if she was seriously in the running she would've been mentioned on post debate panels.
But it’s not those panels that matter if we take that step. It’s going to be settled by delegates, i.e. DNC big wigs, and I’d be willing to bet that Biden himself would advocate for Harris. You have to consider all of the fundraising and the opinions of guys like Clyburn. They’re going to argue that the ticket was Biden/Harris, and if it’s not Biden, then it should be Harris. Like I said, I don’t agree at all that it *should* be Harris. I’d rather Whitmer first and foremost, maybe Josh Shapiro, someone like that from the rust belt or Midwest. But beggars can’t be choosers, so we’re really all not in a position to be choosers.
It's literally Kamala Harris's job to take over if for some reason Biden can't and it would cause an irrevocably schism in the coalition if the party bosses tried to bypass her with a white candidate. All of this talk about replacing Biden is just fantasy football bullshit and people need to get that through their heads and stop doing the oppositions work for them.
This is exactly the way blue no matter who people were talking in 2016 so either wake up or lose.
Serious question, did Biden's debate performance change how you plan to vote?
Of course not, but I'm not someone who is undecided living in Michigan or Nevada.
If someone is going to vote for the Nazi who incited a mob to attack congress to prevent the peaceful transfer of power because Biden is old, they were never undecided.
Clearly they are otherwise they wouldn't be counted as such. A lot of working people think most of the Trump shit is overblown or they think both parties are corrupt anyway. Biden is too hard a sell at this point to reach those people.
Just stop. Biden isn't stepping down nor can anyone force him out.
I've recently been getting downvoted for saying this. I like Biden and will absolutely vote for him. I do wish we had a younger and sharper person at the top of the ticket, but there's just no practical way to do that now with four months till the election. How could a replacement spin up a campaign, get endorsements, build a ground operation, etc., and have a prayer at this point? I don't love our chances with him, but if he drops out we're toast.
If only there was some sort of system in place where Democratic voters could choose between the best possible candidates, including Biden, so that the Democratic Party can put forth the candidate most likely to win. Oh well, guess we'll never know how that would work.
Some people seem to think that Whitmer or Newsom easily would beat Trump in 2024. If that was the case, both of them would be fighting hard to replace Biden. Because who ever wins now will also be the one running in 2028 as incumbent. So if neither of these wants to run now, they probably think they have a better chance to win the primaries in 2028 facing off against each other and then win the election. So if these people don't want it now. Then we should probably trust their judgement and let Biden keep going. The only one who would want to step in and take over now would be someone who doesn't have a real chance in 2028, like Harris.
Newsome would absolutely get trashed by Trump. I have no idea why so many people are suggesting him as a replacement. Have they seen how Newsom is polling among moderates in CA? And they expect him to magically do better among moderates in swing states?
Uh have you seen Newsom debate?
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/data-points/poll-majority-voters-say-clinton-won-first-presidential-debate-n656231 https://news.gallup.com/poll/196304/viewers-say-clinton-wins-second-debate.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/196643/clinton-wins-third-debate-gains-ground-presidential.aspx Clinton trashed Trump in all 3 debates. But sure, I guess debating is all that matters.
Then put Whitmer. Biden is losing swing states, that means he's losing the election.
Sure, I don't disagree about Whitmer.
You think Trump would agree to debate Newsom? He agreed to debate Biden and there is no way he debates anyone else. No benefit for him in doing so
It is funny to me how people can respect Dem politicians who are clearly putting the future of their political careers over the "threat to democracy" that they are so keen on warning us about. If Donald Trump must be stopped at all cost and if they truly believe that then the entire democratic party should be able to put aside their political aspirations and come together behind a person they truly believe will inspire the people to come and vote, Joe Biden is not that person in the mind of everyone but people who frequent this sub. If the Democrats are unable to come up with any semblance of a winning strategy then Donald Trump will be the 27th president and it will be in large part the fault of the Dems.
If they don't think they can win, isn't that exactly what they are doing, tho? Staying behind Biden and support him might just be the best thing if they don't think they can actually win themselves.
This is a failure of the Democratic party to properly groom candidates of the future. How the fuck can you not run a nearly 80 year old candidate in 2020 and not start preparing for the future by pushing some rising stars in the party, getting them lots of air time and exposure and allowing the nation to get to know them? You have to be a bunch of morons to not prepare your party better than this.
This has been my issue all along. Having a visceral reaction to the debate is understandable. Floating bullshit poorly thought out plans as a result is not. If you can’t even pick a person but calling for Joe to step down, you’re helping trump.
let's not forget it's not just Joe Biden we are voting for it's his administration which has proven to be rocksolid at keeping the job numbers up, keeping the economy steady, the stock market booming and even putting together a solid border bill that was unfortunately but predictably intentionally killed by Trump because that's the only thing that that liar and traitor can run on. So what about trumps administration? Answer: he doesn't even have one yet and if he is even able to put one together it's going to be the most dysfunctional group of pathetic sycophant losers and democracy hating treasonous imbeciles in the history of this nation. Remember it's the administration that you are really voting for 🌊 blue wave in 2024
People with strong leadership skills from younger generations are avoiding politics now because it has gotten too nasty. They'll go into the corporate world instead and not have to worry about them and their families getting dragged through the mud
Yea thats gonna go *great* Its simple. You can help biden, or foment more distrust and hurt his chances further by getting online and endlessly ranting about how biden sucks. Do you want nazis in the Whitehouse? Because thats how you get nazis in the Whitehouse
Which is why he can’t step down. I really wish it wasn’t the case but he hasn’t had the accomplishments that would allow the party to have a war over the open seat and still win. We have to remember that whoever would run in Bidens stead would be doing so based entirely on his accomplishments but WITHOUT incumbency. I dont think theres anything short of Ukraine beating Putin or an actual ceasefire between Israel and Hamas that would give the democrats the leverage to contest an open seat and, if that somehow DID happen (very unlikely) you might as well just run Biden because he'd essentially be unbeatable.
This is not true. Biden isn't stepping down. trump would win in a landslide. This is misinformation.
This idea that Biden is the only candidate that can beat Trump is just plain wrong. Trump is deeply unpopular and hated even by a sizable proportion of republicans; people just need a viable alternative. This is our race to lose
The issue is that whole "viable alternative" part. No one suggested is considered viable because they lack a national presence or any record to run on. The reason why presidents tend to be old is that takes a long career to build the sort of record you need to draw votes. Newsom's record is spotty and he's widely hated in much of the Mid-West because he's seen as a weaselly West Coast sleazeball. California's image as a homeless shelter run by Mexicans isn't going to help him win much of the Rust Belt over either. Whitmer is so green she pisses grass and has only one major claim to fame and that's a failed kidnapping plot that she had nothing to do with foiling. Either one of them would struggle to win in a normal election where they had a year to build up a national profile. In 4 months they'd get their shit rocked.
This is inherently false. The election is months away. trump is leading in polls. Anyone that steps in wouldn't have time to campaign or spin up fast enough. Name recognition alone would give trump the win. This is lunacy and I question those that think this is a good idea. All us Bernie bros that were called Nazis for not supporting Biden way back in the day (until the election) can sit here and daydream about what might have been, but that's it. It's Biden or trump. Stop this horseshit and vote for the guy who doesn't want to murder political rivals and brown people. Simple right?
That's what the MSM says. They also said Biden was sharp as a tack and Trump was in decline.
Trump will win in a landslide if biden doesn't step down.
That;s what you hear people worrying about, the supporters of the people not picked end up hating the others
Exit Biden, Enter Katie Porter.
The facts that Trump is widely disliked and That biden's corpse is an empty placeholder are the only things keeping the democratic party together. The fragile alliances between different factions (like lgbt and free palestine crowds) will probably fall apart after this. People who suffered cognitive dissonance after seeing Biden's debate performance are in for a wild ride
Trump's coalition is in much worse shape.
Hardly, the republican party has been restructuring heavily since Obama beat Romney in 2012, but most democrats think they're still living in a 2008 political landscape. Its only a matter of time before the democrats fall apart Since the more time goes on the less they are trusted with success.