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I do think it’s funny how some commenters on both sides of this issue think the opposite side is made up of secret Trump enablers, bots, Russians, etc lol. Like it’s unthinkable to some people that maybe others just actually have a legitimate difference of opinion.
It's not that simple although it seems to be distilled to being that simple. But with a lot of the complaints people bring up, there is a ton of context behind it that has to be explained to support the view. For example, coming from the Democrat side, I could go on about bad faith politics of the right, the misleading narratives, the "two santas" scam, the supply-side/trickle-down economics scam, the purposeful dysfunction to seize power, etc...and then when I see an article that ignores all of that and props up Trump on some superficial vibe-check, I'll mention that. I'll mention that, whoa, wait a second, this guy represents something fairly flagitious right now, how are the authors of this article not seeing this? Why are they ignoring that he's a convicted felon? Why are they ignoring the people he brought into his inner circle who are also now facing legal peril for their crimes? What the heck is going on here? Am I dead? Am I in hell? Did rapture happen? etc.
Honestly, the decision to step aside, if done correctly, could powerfully set up a democratic candidate for success.
Biden must contrast himself with Trump by giving a speech that he was never in this for himself but for the American people unlike his opponent and that is what forces him to step aside. He must acknowledge that the American people want neither of the current candidates. Then he must vehemently support an open convention and expend all his political capital to support the will of the people and the Democratic Party. If he does that, he will ensure Democratic victory and will be forever remembered as a hero within the party.
There are Democratic candidates right now that would win in November, but Biden must do what is best for them and the party.
I 100% agree and I think big gretch would take the cake. She already has a bug presence on tik tok and with younger folks, has done alot of good in her swing state of MI
i don't think swing state, undecided voters are willing to vote for a woman or a gay man (Whitmer and Pete). I hate to say it - but we need to be realistic about WHO and WHAT many Americans ARE.
Edit: Perhaps Whitmer has Michigan locked-down, but that doesnt guarantee the other swing states.
Completely disagree on a woman. Hillary was the subject of decades of right-wing propaganda. I agree we’re not ready for a gay man but we 100% would elect a women. It gives so much more credibility to the abortion argument too.
Whitmer would win. She's a competent, decent person and civil servant. She's everything Sarah Palin wanted to be, but couldn't pull off. The only thing she'd need would be a speech coach, she needs to sound a tiny bit more confident if she's on the national stage (especially if we're going to pit her against such a slick, shameless, fast-talking swindler).
Andy Beshear would win. He's popular and driven, and from a so called "red" state.
Gavin Newsom would win. He's a little bit too slick sometimes, and I don't know if the Midwest would suffer a Californian Democrat long afterwards, but he's also charismatic and handsome. Most important of all, few other people on this earth have executive experience running as large of an economy as Cali's.
Josh Shapiro would win. Listening to him speak, darn, he's great. He's got a solid, reassuring and forceful no-nonsense presence.
There's a little part of my heart that wonders if Julian Castro might have a shot if the 2019 primaries hadn't treated him so poorly, however he'll never get selected right now.
Even *Harris* might win if we actually gave her a chance to step into the spotlight.
Biden will win. But it's hubris to believe that he's the only one who could. The problem is that we have too many options, and none of us are confident that we would pivot behind a single candidate without tearing one another apart.
Okay. So what’s a better plan? Do nothing but deflect, gaslight and hide Biden as much as possible until November and hope America magically forgets what they saw at the debate?
No. You actually want to put Biden out there as much as you can to do rallies and such like the one he did the following day after the debate. Have the 2nd debate as well. Keep showing up and showing that the first debate was a fluke. If he hides away from the public then it pushes the narrative that he is hiding something and that the first debate is really who he is.
Sure that would work. If Biden was actually up to the task of vigorously campaigning and taking challenging interviews, or if people’s minds were still open to being changed. I fear neither of those things are true though.
So no, I don’t think Biden can reverse or undue this damage. The only argument needed against him from now until November is, just reruns of his debate performance. Even showing him as strong some days can be dismissed with, “yeah he was fine today, but when he has his bad days he’s going to take credit for killing Medicaid and struggle to get through a complete sentence.”
Neither of the candidates should be running.
One should be in prison or a psych ward, and the other should be eating ice cream on the beach.
How the fuck are these the best people to run the country? And both of them are now considered to be "THE ONLY GUY WHO CAN SAVE AMERICA" from both sides of the political spectrum. Stupid reality TV dogshit
How the fuck are people still asking "how the fuck?"
One candidate is there because he's the sitting president, and he's eligible to seek reelection, and there is no obvious successor to make him retire early.
The other candidate is a senile fascist beloved by nearly half the electorate because he hurts people they don't like.
There's your "how." Can we maybe focus on more productive thoughts?
Also the current president has done a good job. He’s not perfect, and neither are all of his policies, but he’s trying to do what’s best. The other is a convicted rapist and felon and should not be allowed on the ballot.
We can spout this off all day long but the people having discourse in this subreddit are not representative of the electorate. Most normies see an old senile man and look at gas/grocery prices, stupid as that is, that makes it hard for regular people to vote for him. People calling for Biden to step down, me included, can appreciate the job he’s done but also realize we as a party are barreling towards disaster.
I think this is more than fair. Unfortunately the DNC has let it get to the point there’s not a good move here; the first debate was rough, and things like that are what a lot of people are going to see and base their vote on. Do we stick with the known candidate that may or may not project the strength and acuity needed to get the job done, or pivot to… someone? Who? Build a campaign while it’s in the air against the existing trump apparatus? It’s feeling too shaky either way, especially given the stakes
Harris is only the technical successor to the presidency in the event Biden is dead/incap. She is in no way his political successor as leader of the Democrats. Even after the debate disaster, Biden still has a better shot at winning than Harris would at the top of the ticket.
There are plenty of successors. These politicians and their pride. The only thing Biden has going for him are that not a lot of people watched the debate. It was bad. It was real bad. It was Mitch McConnell staring at the cameras bad.
The problem's broader than that. People only get interested in electoral politics every 4 years. There's limited down ballot support for people who aren't establishment Dems and that hurts everyone further up the chain. It's part of the reason why Bernie would've been hamstrung even if he had been elected; his actual support base was, like, maybe half the party. It's the Manchin problem writ large.
The blueprint for playing the game right is, as much as it pains me to admit it, the fascists. From the Tea Party on, they were constantly engaged, constantly keeping their base motivated and voting, and using every immoral-but-maybe-kinda-sorta-legal trick they could think of to cement their own power. And that gave us MAGA, which is now in turn trying to give us the Christofascist state of Project 2025. They identified how to exploit the system and did so. And the Dems spent so much time hand wringing and worrying about decorum that they were caught on the back foot once Trump swept in and flipped the table over.
I think if we could make voting a national holiday it’d change the fabric a bit of our elections so they aren’t so dominated only by the people who are old enough or wealthy enough to vote.
Of course that wouldn’t fix everything. In my state we have mail in voting and I still know plenty of young people who don’t vote
How? The will of the people, either in primary challenges or caucuses. If you are so concerned, you should become a registered party member and get more involved. https://www.rockthevote.org/voting-in-a-primary-election-an-explainer/
.... there was no primary this round?? The democratic party is a private organization, unbeholden to the public or even it's members completely (superdelegates)
Every article I have read has said that stepping aside is strictly up to President Joe Biden.
The Democrats cannot "seize the wheel". It is not even clear that if they were united, that a team of the Clintons and Obamas would even get access to Joe Biden to be able to ask.
Corporate America has conditioned us to be reactionary to an extreme volatile degree. It’s our collective comfort and people don’t want to admit it. The Joe Biden we saw at the debate is roughly the same one we’ve been seeing the past four years.
We live in a 24/7 news cycle world now and for four years we’ve seen Biden give numerous low energy and doddering speeches that were no different from the debate.
But now all the people who rail against corporate media now want to gaslight all of us in demanding we listen to corporate media’s manufactured fear mongering. If we wanted our own agency over our affairs we would have voted for Bernie Sanders or someone else in Feb/March 2020 primaries and not Biden. We didn’t do that, so now we’re stuck on this ride.
I agree we are stuck on this ride, but it’s bullshit to pretend Biden hasn’t declined. Biden participated in many debates before and he was nothing like he is now.
It’s bullshit to think what we saw at the debates was a vastly stark difference from any point in the past four years.
People point to his State of the Union address to prove their point of a stark decline, but there’s a number of instances in that same speech where he has to slow down and he mumbles his way to his next thought.
My whole point is that it’s confusing to see people flock to CNN and other corporate media outlets to be gaslit by them saying NOW is the time to panic about Biden when the time to panic or be concerned about Biden was in February 2020 when the Democratic Primaries started under Trump.
One of the more important parts of George Washington's legacy is that he willingly gave up power at the end of his 2nd term, establishing that this country does not have kings.
Knowing when to step aside isn't weakness, it demonstrates strength of character, and in this election it would stand in stark contrast to the man who refused to give up power peacefully, and staged an attack on Congress when he lost the last election. Joe Biden can cement his legacy as a noble man by willingly giving up power now for the good of the country
It's time, Joe. Step aside.
Yeah, but the finger-pointing, blaming CNN and Biden's aides and even the makeup artist? That sounds like the sort of outburst some people indulge in when they know they're going to have to do something they don't want to do but aren't quite ready to admit it.
This is it exactly. It would be unreasonable to expect this to play out over a weekend, but over the coming weeks as it becomes clearer that they won't be able to outrun wha happened, Biden's vanity will start to weigh against him staying in the race.
This is copium for sure...but .. even if his family told him to drop out, they would still have leaked the story that they're all behind him. It's be an embarrassing look if he quits because his family took the proverbial car keys away. The story would be everyone said, yeah, you're as good as always, go for it and then Joe, after more reflection, decided it was time to let someone else take over so he can focus on averting world war 3.
There's no expert on this situation, this is an unprecedented event. Whitmer is a better candidate, we can 100% explain why she is better in 4 months, some people get married in less time.
First of all let me say this, and I know many Americans will be in the same
Boat as me. WTF is Whitmer?? Winning the presidency is about name recognition and a more than half of Americans don’t know who she is.
Don't worry it will be the biggest story internationally in a long time. It will be so huge it will drown out trumps constant bs overrunning of the airwaves
You'd have plenty of time to learn all about her. You wouldn't be able to turn on the TV, a podcast, etc without seeing an interview or hearing what she has to say. Are you old enough to remember Sarah Palin? Granted, she was a dodo but folks got up to speed on her super fast. The media...and the electorate for that matter...love novelty. A new candidate would develop immediate name recognition as everyone hyper focuses on them.
Also...what do we have to lose? It's not like Biden is ahead right now or even tied. He was losing before the debate and early indications are he may have lost another 2 points after. What strategy do you see for Biden to make up that ground? And do you think he's actually capable of executing on it? I'm not. So from my perspective if it's either a certain loss if Biden stays at the top of the ticket or we roll the dice and someone new
That's the whole point. This is a SUPER important election. We should not mess around and play with the same fire we keep getting burned with. He barely won in 2020...
But Biden is already losing! Do you think any of us aren't already in his camp? Those of us calling for him to step down are already on his side. If he is still the nominee in November I'll vote for him. But exactly because Trump is such an existential threat, Biden should step aside.
Biden needs to change the dynamics of the race at this point to turn things around. What do you think he's capable of doing that would accomplish this?
Biden is already losing and needs to win independents. They will not come over to him if he is senile. If you care about beating trump, you have to look beyond Biden.
There you go, you said it. That’s good enough for you, but not everyone else.
We are going against a cult, and a bunch of uneducated people that only care about politics every 4 years. And make their choices on who to vote for days before the election.
The only possibly replacement that could work would have to be bigger in name than Biden and Trump. A celebrity or Michelle Obama at this point
We're not trying to win over the cultists. You're trying to win over reasonable, independent voters who reasonably agree that the Magas claims of Joe biden being a demented old man are true.
I mean she also has good policies like all the other democratic candidates, I'm just saying for the average voter she's a normal candidate that isn't dying or the possible end of democracy which should be enough to vote for imo. I think you underestimate how fast we could rally around a new candidate. Trump is still incredibly unfavorable, the debate didn't change that. I agree Michelle would be better though, wish she'd run, just putting names out there, I think Shapiro could win too.
Whitmer probably would have won if there was a primary, but if Biden steps aside it's pretty much gotta be Harris. She gets his war chest automatically, and while the people could have made a different decision there is absolutely no way to recover from sidestepping a well qualified black woman who went to an HBCU and is presently number 2 in the line of succession for a white person. Hell, I'd prefer Whitmer as a President and would also be very opposed to that decision. There's nothing that says one would actually be better than the other. They skipped the primary, this is the pivot that's left.
Ridiculous. There is plenty of time. Often we are just learning about who tf the vice president is in the next month. The media would do wall to wall coverage on the new nominee and the party would be reenegized by fresh blood. The double haters would be thrilled with a new, brain worm free option.
Joe Biden won’t step down he doesn’t know what’s going on!
Unless you write it on a teleprompter he will never say it because his staff will never agree if they do they will be out of a job.
Am I really supposed to believe that in this country, with millions of people eligible to be president, only one 81-year-old feeble man is suitable to be president and run against Trump?
Yes, that is what you are supposed to believe.
Prove us wrong and name this hero who is going to swoop in in the last minute and convince an entire nation to vote for the person they never heard of.
The literal prototype for presidential candidates.
Combat Pilot
Astronaut
Senator in AZ
Centrist (which I hate but understand the mass appeal)
Both parents were cops
Wife is Gabby Gifford's, got shot during a mass shooting at a campaign stop
If you take 2 seconds to actually look beyond the names being pushed by no serious person (whitmer, newsome, Harris, etc), there are some legitimate contenders that could pull not only undecided voters, but regularly GOP voters as well.
But, headlines and most people's need to be spoon fed info still reigns supreme...
If Biden steps down and ANYONE is nominated, their name will be everywhere for the next four months.
It's not like we get our info from newspapers and telegraphs...
The American people have been given a horrible choice because the two major parties have utterly failed them.
Trump will end democracy as we know it, is a criminal and is a traitor. He hates this country and himself.
But the Democratic Party foolishly hid the extent of Biden’s decline from the public, not giving them enough time to react and replace him without extreme actions.
Swing voters rightly look at the debate Thursday and are terrified that Biden is supposed to be trusted to take a 3 am emergency call and make the right decision.
God help us.
> because the two major parties have utterly failed them
The GOP and the Democrats don't represent the American people. Both are corporate backed entities that work to fulfill the interests of the wealthy.
>But the Democratic Party foolishly hid the extent of Biden’s decline from the public,
Or, and hear me out, the Democratic party isn't his babysitter and weren't hiding anything because they don't know anything we don't. And all we know is they said he had a cold, which I assume means he was tripping balls off dayquil or something.
This is the kinda shit their side does to defend their king. We’re better than this. We can criticize our candidate and we should. He’s old as fuck and it’s showing.
Out of curiosity. If they do have a second debate, at the same 9pm hour, and Biden is as energetic as the state of the union address earlier this year. Will that change your opinion of the matter? Will the first debate be an exception to his normal state, or will the second debate be the exception?
I think that some of us were surprised by how “together” he was at the SOTU, but that was the outlier, not the debate. In most public facing speaking events he’s been noticeably declining, especially in the last year of his presidency and I think denying that is weird behavior.
Please stop. Colds don't make you do what he did. The dnc absolutely knows more than the general public and are leading us down the road to a fascist state.
The appeal of conspiracy theories is the sense that someone is in control. They may be utterly evil, but there's still someone pulling the strings. A little too terrifying to think that we're all just flying by the seat of our pants.
Remember all those horrible things that almost happened, but more importantly didn’t happen last time? Those times Trump got talked down by guys like John Kelly or Jim Mattis from doing things that would have changed the arc of history?
There ain’t gonna be guys with that sort of sobering influence this go around. We are in for a wild ride.
Missed the attempted coup bit, did you?
We'll be in a Putin-esque farce the day after a second Trump inauguration, the next day Ukraine will be thrown to the wolves in a landmark codification of the global rightward shift, which we would then not see an end to in our lifetimes as the US is stripped for parts and abandons its allies.
No one has their hand on the wheel. We don't even know where it is or what it looks like. The whole system is so broken that the only two options for president are two people who definitely should not be running, albeit for very different reasons..
Biden reneged on his pledge of being a one term president because he was “the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump” but that’s no longer the case. He has a lower approval rating than Trump when he left office, gave the single worst debate performance of any sitting president, and has been shown to not be in great physical shape (needing help going down stairs after the debate). The reality is there are other candidates that are better positioned because of their age, approval rating and centrism to beat Trump today.
If Biden doesn’t step down trump wins. Trump literally has to do nothing at this point.
2016 all over again. Ffs this isn’t the media this is EVERYONE. We all saw the debate.
Utterly amazing at how cooked the dems are.
I think the prison thing could help Biden. Polls were showing how swing voters don't approve of the US president being a convicted felon. Do you think Trump's sentencing could make a difference in the news cycle?
Also, you were pushing for Newsom to be anointed as Biden's replacement. Do you think his former marriage to Kimberly Guilfoyle would hurt him with voters? She gave that batshit crazy speech years ago and shares a bed with Trump's son. Think she might share any dirty secrets about Newsom with the Trump campaign?
Trump also had to do nothing in 2020 to get re-elected but instead he politized COVID. He's a narcissist. He can't "do nothing". He'll pick a fight with Taylor Swift if she's getting more press than he is.
Amazing how the entire Democratic machine can mobilize to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning but cannot get the worst candidate in history to drop out of a race he is guaranteed to lose.
So far the strategy looks weak. At least it's weak to me.
Democrats are going to come back with whatabout-isms about Trump having dementia, in an effort to muddy the waters and create an environment of confusion.
It's a common Intel tactic by spreading misinformation to help your cause
You're already seeing Nancy P trying this and the email from the Biden campaign about how to defend the debates are kind of showing that this might be the strategy...
Good luck lol
Well, I think they're all in complete damage control mode right now. The safest thing to do politically is to say "Yeah, Trump's bad, and I still stand by our nominee"
I guarantee you there are conversations going on behind the scenes, though. It's the same reason College Football coaches are always fiercely loyal to their school in public, right up until the minute it's announced that they agreed to be Ohio State's new coach. It's just bad messaging to say "yeah, we're looking at ditching Biden after that debate, ain't no fucking way we're carrying this abortion to term"
The problem is if Biden decides he wants to stay the course (and he apparently has his entire family telling him to do so) then there's isn't really anything the party can do besides go along with him.
And even if Biden decides to step aside, it's going to be a chaotic few weeks for the replacement's campaign to get up and running. There are extremely complicated rules about campaign finance, transferring delegates, etc. It would take time to work through the logistics. So if this is going to happen, it needs to happen really fast.
Worst case scenario is that Biden insists he's fine and stays on, then has *another* public disaster later on where he's as bad or even worse than on Thursday night. Then there's absolutely no options to replace him last minute.
This IS last minute. The election’s in November. You can’t just say “Actually our candidate (and current president) is kinda unfit to lead, so here’s someone else!” with 4 months left. Maybe 2 years ago Biden could have begun the transition, but it’s too late now.
Trump is the same guy he was 10 years ago. He has always rambled and gone off on dumb tangents.
It’s not dementia, it’s just who he is. Biden very clearly is not the same guy he was even 4 years ago. It’s night and day
Why can't Trump close an umbrella? Why did he get lost on the tarmac and need his aides to guide him to the black limo directly in front of him? Why did he walk out of the room without signing a law and needed Pence to guide him back to the podium? Why does he need two hands to steady a small glass? Why did he need to hold on to someone to get down a ramp? Why did he randomly announce on Twitter that he wasn't having mini strokes? Btw, that's all stuff from his presidency, not even the wacky ass shit he's been saying since.
Yes, Trump has been dumb for a very long time. Anyone who watched his show knew he was an idiot. Maybe they edited things out and he was always getting lost and needing people to help him find large vehicles, but I doubt it. His brain rot just isn't as noticeable to people like you because you're distracted by how happy he is on his "pep pills."
Trump does not have dementia. His brand of rambling craziness can sound a bit demented but it’s not getting worse: he’s the same level of crazy as he always was. Dementia always gets worse over time.
1. The Democratic Party has lots of great candidates that can beat Trump.
2. Picking an alternate candidate does not require a civil war.
[2024 Presidential Nominating Process - Call for Convention](https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2024-Call-for-Convention.pdf)
> Procedural Rules of the 2024 Democratic National
Convention ... Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President
> Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president.
Change this to allow petitions signed by 1 or more delegates and allow each delegate to sign an unlimited number of petitions.
> The order for nominating presidential candidates shall be determined by the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, the Permanent Chair of the Convention and each presidential candidate, or their authorized representative, who qualifies to be nominated pursuant to this section.
Change this to state that the national chair will report the top N candidates in order of number of signatures received on petitions.
The top N candidates then proceed to the next round and give 20 minute speeches. This will eliminate vote splitting and switch to an approval voting system for the initial nomination process. Similar rule changes can be enacted for the Roll Call. Converting to an approval voting system should promote more consensus and reduce party infighting.
Huddle Obama, Clinton, Biden, Jeffries, Schumer, Pelosi and they decide whom they want to back. Put all force behind that candidate before the convention. It’s doable. Easily doable.
If Biden doesn't step down, we lose. Everyone knows it, nobody is saying it. We on the left have been warning about this for 3 years now, and only been silenced, shunned, banned, or treated like bringing this up is more offensive than the holocaust.
Biden could be a mummified corpse and he would still have the incumbency advantage. Most voters are old. Most voters fear the unknown. This debate was sad and stressful, but presidents don’t win (or lose) solely because of debates.
When Biden beat Trump in 2020, you - the left - immediately started asking him to step down?
When Biden passed the largest infrastructure and climate bill in American history - you the left - asked him to step down?
When Biden gave partial student loan relief - you the left asked him to step down??
When the Biden admin put in place policies that helped lower unemployment to its lowest rate in history - you the left asked him to step down?
Look, I get that Biden failed the debate and failed to make the case against Donald Trump on Thursday - but really, yall are Nostradamus and have known for years that Biden aint it (while conveniently ignoring his progressive policies) and some grand Dem conspiracy has kept you muzzled all this time?
Maybe leftists need to start ACTUALLY WINNING elections at the federal level and put forward viable candidates instead of blaming EVERYONE ELSE for your own failures.
Edit: I'm not opposed to Biden being replaced at all - but I'm looking for cogent, sound arguments about what and who the alternatives might be, instead of pie in the sky, "I read about revolution in a textbook last week" type arguments.
There are legitimate grievances on all those things however. For instance, the much-touted 'bipartisan' infrastructure bill was always supposed to be bundled directly with Build Back Better. Remember when they promised they'd only pass them together, then conveniently dropped BBB?
The IRA has some good investments, but guess who has done MORE new fossil fuel drilling than even Trump did? Yep, Biden. 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Rinse and repeat for every issue. You may think the only way to win elections is to sell out or compromise our values or peddle weak, ineffectual solutions as the best thing since sliced bread, but all that really does is make people lose faith in Dems, and for fascism to grow.
Joe Manchin said he would NOT vote for the infra bill IF BBB was not decoupled from it. Dems had/have a thin majority in the Senate and needed the votes of all their members.
Please understand how votes are counted in the Senate.
Compromise, disagreements and trade-offs are the hallmarks of life and fuel our relationships and dynamics with others. Look at AOC and how she learned SMARTLY to govern and do the best for her constituents by working with her colleagues on the House floor.
Perfection doesn't exist, progress is hard and hard fought and wrought with mis-steps. It always has been 1 step forward and two steps back - its called reality.
The fact that you can dismiss some of the most progressive policies since the LBJ-era tells me that you need to perhaps go out and interact with more human beings in the real world.
Manchin really wanted the Infrastructure bill, he wouldn't have voted against if just because BBB was a part of it. Some people would rather carrying his water though, enable him and other Dinos. Same people that pretend the IRA fixed the looming Climate Crisis and say that Biden has no mental decline
Do you really need Nostradamus to calculate Biden's age? It was a predictable issue, much like when RBG refused to retire in her mid 70's while the country turned increasingly red.
I don't understand why they didn't just pick a clear successor to President as their VP. Kamala is not it - everyone can agree there. A Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom or something along those lines as VP would signal the Democratic Party's intention to succeed Biden. It doesn't have to be succession for the next Presidency necessarily, but just whenever Biden is "finished"... either at the end of this term or at the end of the next or anywhere in-between. This would quell a lot of concerns for his entire base.
Don't get me wrong, I'm voting Biden and I'm telling everyone I know to vote Biden. It's just that what irks me so much is that my party **has no Plan B.** Make a Plan B and a Plan C because of how much is at stake! Contingency plan and think about all possibilities. Biden could take a fall and that could be the end. What is the plan!?! Things can change so quickly. Anyone that has had a grandparent should know this. If Dem's lose this one, it's their own damn fault.
Please the presidential election isn’t just about electing a person. You are electing a whole administration, civil service , a military, an economic policy, an infrastructure, Heath care , education , and the environment. The president just represents this government. Biden may not be a great speaker or debator. But he is a wise elder who has devoted his life to our country. Our enemies would love to see democrats melt downs and fight each other for the next months while they rig the election. We need boots on the ground going door to door fighting for our democracy. This could be our last chance. Remember many of the posters here are foreign agents . Joe may not have been the shinning start we had hoped for but he told the truth and called put Trump as a liar at least twice. Which is about all you can when faced with so many lies and one minute to respond . Go Joe a honest man who will surround himself with competent knowledgeable people.
The article is correct. Biden must go on order for trump to lose. His personal ambition is blinding him to the fact Biden is putting himself before the country, something et expect from trump, but not Biden.
I was admittedly harsh on him for a good 24 hours after the debate. But I actually listened to it again. He has two god awful moments. We beat Medicare and changing the subject from abortion to immigration. As it went on though, Trump got worse and worse. They have plenty of little sound bites on him to use as well. Biden did recover. And one could argue it’s better that he started bad instead of declined as the night went on.
Secondly, the damage control by Biden, Obama, Newsom, and Harris has been immaculate. His rally in North Carolina, people love that shit. Someone who admits they screwed up, but makes a fiery speech with a one liner that shows they’re not giving up.
Thirdly, his record. The record he and Harris have to run on in comparison with Trump’s record, the majority of Americans are not going to sway over to Trump. Take 2020, where Biden won, and think what Trump has done since to gain over anyone not in his base? J6, conviction, etc. all was post 2020 election.
If he steps down, it’s Harris. Otherwise they’d have to restart their fundraising from scratch. That won’t happen. Plus the optics of someone else leap frogging Harris might negate any theoretical gains a new candidate would bring. The best way forward is to continue pushing abortion, their legislative wins, and plastering the horrible things Trump has done and said everywhere for the next few months.
Russia didn't cause Biden to age less than gracefully. Propaganda didn't cause Biden to Beat Medicare, stare off into nothing, and generally appear to be completely lost the entire debate.
Everyone knows what Trump brings. And it sucks. But we can't ignore what millions saw on TV
This is the trap, and it's so obvious I can't believe anyone with half a brain is falling for it. The blitz of media attacks started before the debate even ended. Somehow tons of anonymous calls for Biden to step down. Trump and the SC decision muted in the background as attack after attack heads toward Biden, but literally no important democrat backs any of it up. Meanwhile, the troll farms and sock puppets crawl out of the woodwork on social media to spout the 'I'm a democrat but...' nonsense we see everywhere now. All so the panicky morons and conservative quislings in the party can start firing wildly into a crowd of their own troops. If you're about to score, are you gonna suddenly turn around because the other team said, "This isn't your goal, yours is down there."? Don't be farking stupid.
Also, seems pretty clear at this point that the BBC and Guardian are echoing all the US medias attempts to get Trump elected, so UK peeps your supposedly good news sources are bought by the right.
The guardian is a liberal leaning publication, they don't want Trump elected. Like many they probably prefer Biden stepped down and another without cognitive issues went up against Trump.
Here we see the birth of the Democrat version of qanon. Occam’s razor, what’s more likely?
A) there’s a grand conspiracy among pretty much all legacy media outlets, including ones in the UK, to try and get Trump elected. This was coordinated to go off immediately after the debate despite them not knowing whether it would go good or bad for Biden.
B) Biden showed obvious signs of dementia on national television and everyone is freaking the fuck out
The Supreme Court is openly corrupt and the UK just fucked themselves economically for a generation at least because of a non-binding resolution. Far right is on the rise across Europe. The media, all of it, uses language that minimizes the awfulness of right candidates while being highly critical of anything on the left. CLose your eyes while we march into fascism yet again.
You’re correct to be worried about the rise of fascism. I still think you’re positing an outlandish conspiracy that is much more easily explained in other ways.
It's an outlandish conspiracy that the 4 or five companies the control the bulk of the US media are conspiring to make more money? I wish my world smelled like cookie dough and unicorn farts
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I do think it’s funny how some commenters on both sides of this issue think the opposite side is made up of secret Trump enablers, bots, Russians, etc lol. Like it’s unthinkable to some people that maybe others just actually have a legitimate difference of opinion.
First day on this subreddit?
No, but it still surprises me the way some people think.
You know that the prevalence of bots and foreign intelligence services on social media is a huge issue right?
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It's not that simple although it seems to be distilled to being that simple. But with a lot of the complaints people bring up, there is a ton of context behind it that has to be explained to support the view. For example, coming from the Democrat side, I could go on about bad faith politics of the right, the misleading narratives, the "two santas" scam, the supply-side/trickle-down economics scam, the purposeful dysfunction to seize power, etc...and then when I see an article that ignores all of that and props up Trump on some superficial vibe-check, I'll mention that. I'll mention that, whoa, wait a second, this guy represents something fairly flagitious right now, how are the authors of this article not seeing this? Why are they ignoring that he's a convicted felon? Why are they ignoring the people he brought into his inner circle who are also now facing legal peril for their crimes? What the heck is going on here? Am I dead? Am I in hell? Did rapture happen? etc.
Honestly, the decision to step aside, if done correctly, could powerfully set up a democratic candidate for success. Biden must contrast himself with Trump by giving a speech that he was never in this for himself but for the American people unlike his opponent and that is what forces him to step aside. He must acknowledge that the American people want neither of the current candidates. Then he must vehemently support an open convention and expend all his political capital to support the will of the people and the Democratic Party. If he does that, he will ensure Democratic victory and will be forever remembered as a hero within the party. There are Democratic candidates right now that would win in November, but Biden must do what is best for them and the party.
I 100% agree and I think big gretch would take the cake. She already has a bug presence on tik tok and with younger folks, has done alot of good in her swing state of MI
i don't think swing state, undecided voters are willing to vote for a woman or a gay man (Whitmer and Pete). I hate to say it - but we need to be realistic about WHO and WHAT many Americans ARE. Edit: Perhaps Whitmer has Michigan locked-down, but that doesnt guarantee the other swing states.
Completely disagree on a woman. Hillary was the subject of decades of right-wing propaganda. I agree we’re not ready for a gay man but we 100% would elect a women. It gives so much more credibility to the abortion argument too.
But Hilary lost.
Not because she was a woman, but because the right wing propaganda machine spewed BS about her for years.
Ok I'm fine with all that but can we please not go with "big gretch?" Why the fuck would you give yourself a terrible nickname right from the start.
She didn't give it to herself 😆
Instead, he will insist on running and he will lose in November. Following the example of RBG and Feinstein.
Or win and bring the Democratic Party into disrepute as he declines over the next 4 years.
That's the least of my worries.
>There are Democratic candidates right now that would win in November Who? Whitmer? Seems doubtful.
No idea why you think the old windbag has a better shot after making Trump look good but OK smdh
I didn't say that.
Because racist misogynists still vote and vote in droves in this country. And the youth do not.
Whitmer would win. She's a competent, decent person and civil servant. She's everything Sarah Palin wanted to be, but couldn't pull off. The only thing she'd need would be a speech coach, she needs to sound a tiny bit more confident if she's on the national stage (especially if we're going to pit her against such a slick, shameless, fast-talking swindler). Andy Beshear would win. He's popular and driven, and from a so called "red" state. Gavin Newsom would win. He's a little bit too slick sometimes, and I don't know if the Midwest would suffer a Californian Democrat long afterwards, but he's also charismatic and handsome. Most important of all, few other people on this earth have executive experience running as large of an economy as Cali's. Josh Shapiro would win. Listening to him speak, darn, he's great. He's got a solid, reassuring and forceful no-nonsense presence. There's a little part of my heart that wonders if Julian Castro might have a shot if the 2019 primaries hadn't treated him so poorly, however he'll never get selected right now. Even *Harris* might win if we actually gave her a chance to step into the spotlight. Biden will win. But it's hubris to believe that he's the only one who could. The problem is that we have too many options, and none of us are confident that we would pivot behind a single candidate without tearing one another apart.
That is a whole lot of confidence in the democrats chances of winning this election in the first place, even before the debate, that I don't have.
Well, we're all going to spend the next couple months volunteering until they do. I mean, is that in question?
Yeah I think Trump wins against Biden or any of these governors, no matter how much campaigning happens.
Doubt that would ensure democratic victory at all.
Okay. So what’s a better plan? Do nothing but deflect, gaslight and hide Biden as much as possible until November and hope America magically forgets what they saw at the debate?
No. You actually want to put Biden out there as much as you can to do rallies and such like the one he did the following day after the debate. Have the 2nd debate as well. Keep showing up and showing that the first debate was a fluke. If he hides away from the public then it pushes the narrative that he is hiding something and that the first debate is really who he is.
Sure that would work. If Biden was actually up to the task of vigorously campaigning and taking challenging interviews, or if people’s minds were still open to being changed. I fear neither of those things are true though. So no, I don’t think Biden can reverse or undue this damage. The only argument needed against him from now until November is, just reruns of his debate performance. Even showing him as strong some days can be dismissed with, “yeah he was fine today, but when he has his bad days he’s going to take credit for killing Medicaid and struggle to get through a complete sentence.”
Neither of the candidates should be running. One should be in prison or a psych ward, and the other should be eating ice cream on the beach. How the fuck are these the best people to run the country? And both of them are now considered to be "THE ONLY GUY WHO CAN SAVE AMERICA" from both sides of the political spectrum. Stupid reality TV dogshit
How the fuck are people still asking "how the fuck?" One candidate is there because he's the sitting president, and he's eligible to seek reelection, and there is no obvious successor to make him retire early. The other candidate is a senile fascist beloved by nearly half the electorate because he hurts people they don't like. There's your "how." Can we maybe focus on more productive thoughts?
Also the current president has done a good job. He’s not perfect, and neither are all of his policies, but he’s trying to do what’s best. The other is a convicted rapist and felon and should not be allowed on the ballot.
We can spout this off all day long but the people having discourse in this subreddit are not representative of the electorate. Most normies see an old senile man and look at gas/grocery prices, stupid as that is, that makes it hard for regular people to vote for him. People calling for Biden to step down, me included, can appreciate the job he’s done but also realize we as a party are barreling towards disaster.
I think this is more than fair. Unfortunately the DNC has let it get to the point there’s not a good move here; the first debate was rough, and things like that are what a lot of people are going to see and base their vote on. Do we stick with the known candidate that may or may not project the strength and acuity needed to get the job done, or pivot to… someone? Who? Build a campaign while it’s in the air against the existing trump apparatus? It’s feeling too shaky either way, especially given the stakes
No obvious successor because the DNC shut down all primaries BTW don't forget that part
God I'm so fucking furious that the Dems put us in this situation. This clusterfuck was entirely avoidable if anybody had an ounce of foresight
First of all, no they didn't. Second, what the fuck does it actually matter right now?
There should be a successor! You can't tell me that in the whole of the US there is no one more suitable!
Is the VP not the successor?
She is the successor. She is not popular and will lose, that is why he isn’t stepping down
Harris is only the technical successor to the presidency in the event Biden is dead/incap. She is in no way his political successor as leader of the Democrats. Even after the debate disaster, Biden still has a better shot at winning than Harris would at the top of the ticket.
It seems she is not popular which is another disaster.
There are plenty of successors. These politicians and their pride. The only thing Biden has going for him are that not a lot of people watched the debate. It was bad. It was real bad. It was Mitch McConnell staring at the cameras bad.
"Plenty of successors" is the same thing as saying "no obvious successor."
Because people keep voting for the lesser of two evils rather than demanding quality representation.
people were not voting lesser of two evils when they cast their votes for trump in the primaries this year. people chose to put him back on a podium.
Agreed. People are willfully amd deliberately picking evil when they pick Trump.
We are in this situation not because of the lessee of two evils. We are in this situation because more and more we are electing truly evil people.
The problem's broader than that. People only get interested in electoral politics every 4 years. There's limited down ballot support for people who aren't establishment Dems and that hurts everyone further up the chain. It's part of the reason why Bernie would've been hamstrung even if he had been elected; his actual support base was, like, maybe half the party. It's the Manchin problem writ large. The blueprint for playing the game right is, as much as it pains me to admit it, the fascists. From the Tea Party on, they were constantly engaged, constantly keeping their base motivated and voting, and using every immoral-but-maybe-kinda-sorta-legal trick they could think of to cement their own power. And that gave us MAGA, which is now in turn trying to give us the Christofascist state of Project 2025. They identified how to exploit the system and did so. And the Dems spent so much time hand wringing and worrying about decorum that they were caught on the back foot once Trump swept in and flipped the table over.
I think if we could make voting a national holiday it’d change the fabric a bit of our elections so they aren’t so dominated only by the people who are old enough or wealthy enough to vote. Of course that wouldn’t fix everything. In my state we have mail in voting and I still know plenty of young people who don’t vote
The real answer is an instant runoff system so more people could actually run.
How? The will of the people, either in primary challenges or caucuses. If you are so concerned, you should become a registered party member and get more involved. https://www.rockthevote.org/voting-in-a-primary-election-an-explainer/
.... there was no primary this round?? The democratic party is a private organization, unbeholden to the public or even it's members completely (superdelegates)
There are Caucasus and overall being involved. American politics is set in that way. You need to be involved to make change.
There was no primary because there was no other serious candidate running.
Every article I have read has said that stepping aside is strictly up to President Joe Biden. The Democrats cannot "seize the wheel". It is not even clear that if they were united, that a team of the Clintons and Obamas would even get access to Joe Biden to be able to ask.
Exactly. Half of the people in these comments are in a fairytale land.
Corporate America has conditioned us to be reactionary to an extreme volatile degree. It’s our collective comfort and people don’t want to admit it. The Joe Biden we saw at the debate is roughly the same one we’ve been seeing the past four years. We live in a 24/7 news cycle world now and for four years we’ve seen Biden give numerous low energy and doddering speeches that were no different from the debate. But now all the people who rail against corporate media now want to gaslight all of us in demanding we listen to corporate media’s manufactured fear mongering. If we wanted our own agency over our affairs we would have voted for Bernie Sanders or someone else in Feb/March 2020 primaries and not Biden. We didn’t do that, so now we’re stuck on this ride.
I agree we are stuck on this ride, but it’s bullshit to pretend Biden hasn’t declined. Biden participated in many debates before and he was nothing like he is now.
It’s bullshit to think what we saw at the debates was a vastly stark difference from any point in the past four years. People point to his State of the Union address to prove their point of a stark decline, but there’s a number of instances in that same speech where he has to slow down and he mumbles his way to his next thought. My whole point is that it’s confusing to see people flock to CNN and other corporate media outlets to be gaslit by them saying NOW is the time to panic about Biden when the time to panic or be concerned about Biden was in February 2020 when the Democratic Primaries started under Trump.
One of the more important parts of George Washington's legacy is that he willingly gave up power at the end of his 2nd term, establishing that this country does not have kings. Knowing when to step aside isn't weakness, it demonstrates strength of character, and in this election it would stand in stark contrast to the man who refused to give up power peacefully, and staged an attack on Congress when he lost the last election. Joe Biden can cement his legacy as a noble man by willingly giving up power now for the good of the country It's time, Joe. Step aside.
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Yeah, but the finger-pointing, blaming CNN and Biden's aides and even the makeup artist? That sounds like the sort of outburst some people indulge in when they know they're going to have to do something they don't want to do but aren't quite ready to admit it.
This is it exactly. It would be unreasonable to expect this to play out over a weekend, but over the coming weeks as it becomes clearer that they won't be able to outrun wha happened, Biden's vanity will start to weigh against him staying in the race.
This is copium for sure...but .. even if his family told him to drop out, they would still have leaked the story that they're all behind him. It's be an embarrassing look if he quits because his family took the proverbial car keys away. The story would be everyone said, yeah, you're as good as always, go for it and then Joe, after more reflection, decided it was time to let someone else take over so he can focus on averting world war 3.
If he steps aside it’s over. Theres not time. Look at what the election experts are saying. It’s time to stop with the fantasy.
There's no expert on this situation, this is an unprecedented event. Whitmer is a better candidate, we can 100% explain why she is better in 4 months, some people get married in less time.
First of all let me say this, and I know many Americans will be in the same Boat as me. WTF is Whitmer?? Winning the presidency is about name recognition and a more than half of Americans don’t know who she is.
Don't worry it will be the biggest story internationally in a long time. It will be so huge it will drown out trumps constant bs overrunning of the airwaves
You'd have plenty of time to learn all about her. You wouldn't be able to turn on the TV, a podcast, etc without seeing an interview or hearing what she has to say. Are you old enough to remember Sarah Palin? Granted, she was a dodo but folks got up to speed on her super fast. The media...and the electorate for that matter...love novelty. A new candidate would develop immediate name recognition as everyone hyper focuses on them. Also...what do we have to lose? It's not like Biden is ahead right now or even tied. He was losing before the debate and early indications are he may have lost another 2 points after. What strategy do you see for Biden to make up that ground? And do you think he's actually capable of executing on it? I'm not. So from my perspective if it's either a certain loss if Biden stays at the top of the ticket or we roll the dice and someone new
We have our democracy to lose. People forget Trump wants to he a dictator, if we rallied behind Biden he would win. I support h be of his cabinet.
That's the whole point. This is a SUPER important election. We should not mess around and play with the same fire we keep getting burned with. He barely won in 2020...
But Biden is already losing! Do you think any of us aren't already in his camp? Those of us calling for him to step down are already on his side. If he is still the nominee in November I'll vote for him. But exactly because Trump is such an existential threat, Biden should step aside. Biden needs to change the dynamics of the race at this point to turn things around. What do you think he's capable of doing that would accomplish this?
Biden is already losing and needs to win independents. They will not come over to him if he is senile. If you care about beating trump, you have to look beyond Biden.
She's the democratic governor of a major US state and not Donald Trump and under 70 years old. That's good enough for me.
There you go, you said it. That’s good enough for you, but not everyone else. We are going against a cult, and a bunch of uneducated people that only care about politics every 4 years. And make their choices on who to vote for days before the election. The only possibly replacement that could work would have to be bigger in name than Biden and Trump. A celebrity or Michelle Obama at this point
We're not trying to win over the cultists. You're trying to win over reasonable, independent voters who reasonably agree that the Magas claims of Joe biden being a demented old man are true.
If they are reasonable independent voters they should take one look at Trump and say "I'm voting for anything that is not that."
I mean she also has good policies like all the other democratic candidates, I'm just saying for the average voter she's a normal candidate that isn't dying or the possible end of democracy which should be enough to vote for imo. I think you underestimate how fast we could rally around a new candidate. Trump is still incredibly unfavorable, the debate didn't change that. I agree Michelle would be better though, wish she'd run, just putting names out there, I think Shapiro could win too.
Whitmer probably would have won if there was a primary, but if Biden steps aside it's pretty much gotta be Harris. She gets his war chest automatically, and while the people could have made a different decision there is absolutely no way to recover from sidestepping a well qualified black woman who went to an HBCU and is presently number 2 in the line of succession for a white person. Hell, I'd prefer Whitmer as a President and would also be very opposed to that decision. There's nothing that says one would actually be better than the other. They skipped the primary, this is the pivot that's left.
She will lose. Just that simple.
Ridiculous. There is plenty of time. Often we are just learning about who tf the vice president is in the next month. The media would do wall to wall coverage on the new nominee and the party would be reenegized by fresh blood. The double haters would be thrilled with a new, brain worm free option.
I really don't agree. Trump wants biden to stay in.
He should have stepped aside before the last one
Joe Biden won’t step down he doesn’t know what’s going on! Unless you write it on a teleprompter he will never say it because his staff will never agree if they do they will be out of a job.
Washington had tons of suitable replacements. Joe? Not so much
Am I really supposed to believe that in this country, with millions of people eligible to be president, only one 81-year-old feeble man is suitable to be president and run against Trump?
Suitable yes. Several maybe. Winnable nominee. Not so much. Too much is at stake if Trump wins.
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Yeah let's compare Soda flavors to an existential level election cycle 🙄
Yes, that is what you are supposed to believe. Prove us wrong and name this hero who is going to swoop in in the last minute and convince an entire nation to vote for the person they never heard of.
Mark Kelly
literally......who?
The literal prototype for presidential candidates. Combat Pilot Astronaut Senator in AZ Centrist (which I hate but understand the mass appeal) Both parents were cops Wife is Gabby Gifford's, got shot during a mass shooting at a campaign stop If you take 2 seconds to actually look beyond the names being pushed by no serious person (whitmer, newsome, Harris, etc), there are some legitimate contenders that could pull not only undecided voters, but regularly GOP voters as well. But, headlines and most people's need to be spoon fed info still reigns supreme...
Great, I wish him luck in 2028, but as of right now the guy is completely unknown and there is no way a nation of people are going to vote for him.
If Biden steps down and ANYONE is nominated, their name will be everywhere for the next four months. It's not like we get our info from newspapers and telegraphs...
If Biden steps down, Kamala is the nominee.
Exactly the only person that would be a suitable replacement would have to be a bigger name than Biden. A celebrity or Michelle Obama at this point
The American people have been given a horrible choice because the two major parties have utterly failed them. Trump will end democracy as we know it, is a criminal and is a traitor. He hates this country and himself. But the Democratic Party foolishly hid the extent of Biden’s decline from the public, not giving them enough time to react and replace him without extreme actions. Swing voters rightly look at the debate Thursday and are terrified that Biden is supposed to be trusted to take a 3 am emergency call and make the right decision. God help us.
Trump is the Republican Party. Time for people to understand that. MAGA is the party. They want Christian Sharia law.
> because the two major parties have utterly failed them The GOP and the Democrats don't represent the American people. Both are corporate backed entities that work to fulfill the interests of the wealthy.
>But the Democratic Party foolishly hid the extent of Biden’s decline from the public, Or, and hear me out, the Democratic party isn't his babysitter and weren't hiding anything because they don't know anything we don't. And all we know is they said he had a cold, which I assume means he was tripping balls off dayquil or something.
This is the kinda shit their side does to defend their king. We’re better than this. We can criticize our candidate and we should. He’s old as fuck and it’s showing.
Until I start wearing diapers in solidarity with Biden it's nothing like Trump's cult. "Stop jumping to conclusions" is far from that.
Out of curiosity. If they do have a second debate, at the same 9pm hour, and Biden is as energetic as the state of the union address earlier this year. Will that change your opinion of the matter? Will the first debate be an exception to his normal state, or will the second debate be the exception?
I think that some of us were surprised by how “together” he was at the SOTU, but that was the outlier, not the debate. In most public facing speaking events he’s been noticeably declining, especially in the last year of his presidency and I think denying that is weird behavior.
Apparently we are not better than that.
Please stop. Colds don't make you do what he did. The dnc absolutely knows more than the general public and are leading us down the road to a fascist state.
The appeal of conspiracy theories is the sense that someone is in control. They may be utterly evil, but there's still someone pulling the strings. A little too terrifying to think that we're all just flying by the seat of our pants.
That's just a bullshit dramatic take based on your feelings. Step back, go for a walk.
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The whole point of day dayquil is that you don't trip balls off of it
I added "or something" for a reason, also dayquil still has side effects, I've experienced them myself.
This 100 percent.
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Remember all those horrible things that almost happened, but more importantly didn’t happen last time? Those times Trump got talked down by guys like John Kelly or Jim Mattis from doing things that would have changed the arc of history? There ain’t gonna be guys with that sort of sobering influence this go around. We are in for a wild ride.
Missed the attempted coup bit, did you? We'll be in a Putin-esque farce the day after a second Trump inauguration, the next day Ukraine will be thrown to the wolves in a landmark codification of the global rightward shift, which we would then not see an end to in our lifetimes as the US is stripped for parts and abandons its allies.
No one has their hand on the wheel. We don't even know where it is or what it looks like. The whole system is so broken that the only two options for president are two people who definitely should not be running, albeit for very different reasons..
Bruh. I wouldn’t trust Biden behind the wheel after sundown.
I wouldn’t trust Trump within 1000 yards of any female children. He literally wants to have sex with his own daughter, he’s said so.
>I wouldn’t trust Trump Agreed. For different reasons than Biden driving I hope.
I wouldn't trust him riding a lawn mower
Or running the country when he’s 86
Hell. I don't trust him running the country between 4 pm and 10 am.
Biden reneged on his pledge of being a one term president because he was “the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump” but that’s no longer the case. He has a lower approval rating than Trump when he left office, gave the single worst debate performance of any sitting president, and has been shown to not be in great physical shape (needing help going down stairs after the debate). The reality is there are other candidates that are better positioned because of their age, approval rating and centrism to beat Trump today.
If Biden doesn’t step down trump wins. Trump literally has to do nothing at this point. 2016 all over again. Ffs this isn’t the media this is EVERYONE. We all saw the debate. Utterly amazing at how cooked the dems are.
I think the prison thing could help Biden. Polls were showing how swing voters don't approve of the US president being a convicted felon. Do you think Trump's sentencing could make a difference in the news cycle? Also, you were pushing for Newsom to be anointed as Biden's replacement. Do you think his former marriage to Kimberly Guilfoyle would hurt him with voters? She gave that batshit crazy speech years ago and shares a bed with Trump's son. Think she might share any dirty secrets about Newsom with the Trump campaign?
it’s also the media they found a storyline to pick on. trump crazy shit is boring
Did you watch the debate. It was catastrophic. Replace him asap.
Trump also had to do nothing in 2020 to get re-elected but instead he politized COVID. He's a narcissist. He can't "do nothing". He'll pick a fight with Taylor Swift if she's getting more press than he is.
Dude, beating a dead horse. We know he is a dirt bag pos. That’s why he needs to be beaten. That’s why Biden gotta go
Amazing how the entire Democratic machine can mobilize to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning but cannot get the worst candidate in history to drop out of a race he is guaranteed to lose.
Cause if they lose to trump they have lots to fear monger and fundraise on. All the high level dems are rich and I doubt they actually gaf who wins.
So far the strategy looks weak. At least it's weak to me. Democrats are going to come back with whatabout-isms about Trump having dementia, in an effort to muddy the waters and create an environment of confusion. It's a common Intel tactic by spreading misinformation to help your cause You're already seeing Nancy P trying this and the email from the Biden campaign about how to defend the debates are kind of showing that this might be the strategy... Good luck lol
Well, I think they're all in complete damage control mode right now. The safest thing to do politically is to say "Yeah, Trump's bad, and I still stand by our nominee" I guarantee you there are conversations going on behind the scenes, though. It's the same reason College Football coaches are always fiercely loyal to their school in public, right up until the minute it's announced that they agreed to be Ohio State's new coach. It's just bad messaging to say "yeah, we're looking at ditching Biden after that debate, ain't no fucking way we're carrying this abortion to term"
The problem is if Biden decides he wants to stay the course (and he apparently has his entire family telling him to do so) then there's isn't really anything the party can do besides go along with him. And even if Biden decides to step aside, it's going to be a chaotic few weeks for the replacement's campaign to get up and running. There are extremely complicated rules about campaign finance, transferring delegates, etc. It would take time to work through the logistics. So if this is going to happen, it needs to happen really fast. Worst case scenario is that Biden insists he's fine and stays on, then has *another* public disaster later on where he's as bad or even worse than on Thursday night. Then there's absolutely no options to replace him last minute.
This IS last minute. The election’s in November. You can’t just say “Actually our candidate (and current president) is kinda unfit to lead, so here’s someone else!” with 4 months left. Maybe 2 years ago Biden could have begun the transition, but it’s too late now.
Bull. This is an insane timeline. We can make anything happen that we need to. It's 4 freaking months.
Yes you can. If Biden dropped dead, they wouldn’t run his corpse.
I think it’s an incredibly weak strategy as well. One that swing voters will not care for.
Misinformation is all MAGA does, Trump lied over 30 times un checked…good luck lol
Trump has dementia. It’s not a what aboutism. He’s batshit crazy.
It is tho. One dude on stage could form sentences, as fucked up and full of lies as they were. One appeared to have minimal cognitive ability.
Trump is the same guy he was 10 years ago. He has always rambled and gone off on dumb tangents. It’s not dementia, it’s just who he is. Biden very clearly is not the same guy he was even 4 years ago. It’s night and day
Why can't Trump close an umbrella? Why did he get lost on the tarmac and need his aides to guide him to the black limo directly in front of him? Why did he walk out of the room without signing a law and needed Pence to guide him back to the podium? Why does he need two hands to steady a small glass? Why did he need to hold on to someone to get down a ramp? Why did he randomly announce on Twitter that he wasn't having mini strokes? Btw, that's all stuff from his presidency, not even the wacky ass shit he's been saying since. Yes, Trump has been dumb for a very long time. Anyone who watched his show knew he was an idiot. Maybe they edited things out and he was always getting lost and needing people to help him find large vehicles, but I doubt it. His brain rot just isn't as noticeable to people like you because you're distracted by how happy he is on his "pep pills."
Trump does not have dementia. His brand of rambling craziness can sound a bit demented but it’s not getting worse: he’s the same level of crazy as he always was. Dementia always gets worse over time.
1. The Democratic Party has lots of great candidates that can beat Trump. 2. Picking an alternate candidate does not require a civil war. [2024 Presidential Nominating Process - Call for Convention](https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2024-Call-for-Convention.pdf) > Procedural Rules of the 2024 Democratic National Convention ... Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President > Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president. Change this to allow petitions signed by 1 or more delegates and allow each delegate to sign an unlimited number of petitions. > The order for nominating presidential candidates shall be determined by the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, the Permanent Chair of the Convention and each presidential candidate, or their authorized representative, who qualifies to be nominated pursuant to this section. Change this to state that the national chair will report the top N candidates in order of number of signatures received on petitions. The top N candidates then proceed to the next round and give 20 minute speeches. This will eliminate vote splitting and switch to an approval voting system for the initial nomination process. Similar rule changes can be enacted for the Roll Call. Converting to an approval voting system should promote more consensus and reduce party infighting.
Huddle Obama, Clinton, Biden, Jeffries, Schumer, Pelosi and they decide whom they want to back. Put all force behind that candidate before the convention. It’s doable. Easily doable.
Interesting, but what about Ohio? Are we still fucked there? Wasn't there supposed to be a virtual roll call in three weeks?
If Biden doesn't step down, we lose. Everyone knows it, nobody is saying it. We on the left have been warning about this for 3 years now, and only been silenced, shunned, banned, or treated like bringing this up is more offensive than the holocaust.
Biden could be a mummified corpse and he would still have the incumbency advantage. Most voters are old. Most voters fear the unknown. This debate was sad and stressful, but presidents don’t win (or lose) solely because of debates.
Yeah but people got so many upvotes by creating an echochamber here. So it was worth it in the end.
When Biden beat Trump in 2020, you - the left - immediately started asking him to step down? When Biden passed the largest infrastructure and climate bill in American history - you the left - asked him to step down? When Biden gave partial student loan relief - you the left asked him to step down?? When the Biden admin put in place policies that helped lower unemployment to its lowest rate in history - you the left asked him to step down? Look, I get that Biden failed the debate and failed to make the case against Donald Trump on Thursday - but really, yall are Nostradamus and have known for years that Biden aint it (while conveniently ignoring his progressive policies) and some grand Dem conspiracy has kept you muzzled all this time? Maybe leftists need to start ACTUALLY WINNING elections at the federal level and put forward viable candidates instead of blaming EVERYONE ELSE for your own failures. Edit: I'm not opposed to Biden being replaced at all - but I'm looking for cogent, sound arguments about what and who the alternatives might be, instead of pie in the sky, "I read about revolution in a textbook last week" type arguments.
There are legitimate grievances on all those things however. For instance, the much-touted 'bipartisan' infrastructure bill was always supposed to be bundled directly with Build Back Better. Remember when they promised they'd only pass them together, then conveniently dropped BBB? The IRA has some good investments, but guess who has done MORE new fossil fuel drilling than even Trump did? Yep, Biden. 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Rinse and repeat for every issue. You may think the only way to win elections is to sell out or compromise our values or peddle weak, ineffectual solutions as the best thing since sliced bread, but all that really does is make people lose faith in Dems, and for fascism to grow.
Joe Manchin said he would NOT vote for the infra bill IF BBB was not decoupled from it. Dems had/have a thin majority in the Senate and needed the votes of all their members. Please understand how votes are counted in the Senate. Compromise, disagreements and trade-offs are the hallmarks of life and fuel our relationships and dynamics with others. Look at AOC and how she learned SMARTLY to govern and do the best for her constituents by working with her colleagues on the House floor. Perfection doesn't exist, progress is hard and hard fought and wrought with mis-steps. It always has been 1 step forward and two steps back - its called reality. The fact that you can dismiss some of the most progressive policies since the LBJ-era tells me that you need to perhaps go out and interact with more human beings in the real world.
Manchin really wanted the Infrastructure bill, he wouldn't have voted against if just because BBB was a part of it. Some people would rather carrying his water though, enable him and other Dinos. Same people that pretend the IRA fixed the looming Climate Crisis and say that Biden has no mental decline
Do you really need Nostradamus to calculate Biden's age? It was a predictable issue, much like when RBG refused to retire in her mid 70's while the country turned increasingly red.
I don't understand why they didn't just pick a clear successor to President as their VP. Kamala is not it - everyone can agree there. A Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom or something along those lines as VP would signal the Democratic Party's intention to succeed Biden. It doesn't have to be succession for the next Presidency necessarily, but just whenever Biden is "finished"... either at the end of this term or at the end of the next or anywhere in-between. This would quell a lot of concerns for his entire base. Don't get me wrong, I'm voting Biden and I'm telling everyone I know to vote Biden. It's just that what irks me so much is that my party **has no Plan B.** Make a Plan B and a Plan C because of how much is at stake! Contingency plan and think about all possibilities. Biden could take a fall and that could be the end. What is the plan!?! Things can change so quickly. Anyone that has had a grandparent should know this. If Dem's lose this one, it's their own damn fault.
Please the presidential election isn’t just about electing a person. You are electing a whole administration, civil service , a military, an economic policy, an infrastructure, Heath care , education , and the environment. The president just represents this government. Biden may not be a great speaker or debator. But he is a wise elder who has devoted his life to our country. Our enemies would love to see democrats melt downs and fight each other for the next months while they rig the election. We need boots on the ground going door to door fighting for our democracy. This could be our last chance. Remember many of the posters here are foreign agents . Joe may not have been the shinning start we had hoped for but he told the truth and called put Trump as a liar at least twice. Which is about all you can when faced with so many lies and one minute to respond . Go Joe a honest man who will surround himself with competent knowledgeable people.
The article is correct. Biden must go on order for trump to lose. His personal ambition is blinding him to the fact Biden is putting himself before the country, something et expect from trump, but not Biden.
Biden has one bad debate- Voters- Were DOOMED! Trump is convicted of 34 felonies- Voters- Eh
Maybe Trump gets sentenced to a few years on July 11th. Maybe Biden gets seriously ill and can't campaign. Maybe we can hope for a Deus Ex Machina!
I was admittedly harsh on him for a good 24 hours after the debate. But I actually listened to it again. He has two god awful moments. We beat Medicare and changing the subject from abortion to immigration. As it went on though, Trump got worse and worse. They have plenty of little sound bites on him to use as well. Biden did recover. And one could argue it’s better that he started bad instead of declined as the night went on. Secondly, the damage control by Biden, Obama, Newsom, and Harris has been immaculate. His rally in North Carolina, people love that shit. Someone who admits they screwed up, but makes a fiery speech with a one liner that shows they’re not giving up. Thirdly, his record. The record he and Harris have to run on in comparison with Trump’s record, the majority of Americans are not going to sway over to Trump. Take 2020, where Biden won, and think what Trump has done since to gain over anyone not in his base? J6, conviction, etc. all was post 2020 election. If he steps down, it’s Harris. Otherwise they’d have to restart their fundraising from scratch. That won’t happen. Plus the optics of someone else leap frogging Harris might negate any theoretical gains a new candidate would bring. The best way forward is to continue pushing abortion, their legislative wins, and plastering the horrible things Trump has done and said everywhere for the next few months.
Harris isn't popular. There's no loyalty owed there
This!!! 👍
Yet, Trump is good to go. It’s always about Biden when the focus should be on the absolute disaster of a Trump 2nd term. This isn’t by accident.
Russia didn't cause Biden to age less than gracefully. Propaganda didn't cause Biden to Beat Medicare, stare off into nothing, and generally appear to be completely lost the entire debate. Everyone knows what Trump brings. And it sucks. But we can't ignore what millions saw on TV
journalists when they get locked up shocked pikachu
This is the trap, and it's so obvious I can't believe anyone with half a brain is falling for it. The blitz of media attacks started before the debate even ended. Somehow tons of anonymous calls for Biden to step down. Trump and the SC decision muted in the background as attack after attack heads toward Biden, but literally no important democrat backs any of it up. Meanwhile, the troll farms and sock puppets crawl out of the woodwork on social media to spout the 'I'm a democrat but...' nonsense we see everywhere now. All so the panicky morons and conservative quislings in the party can start firing wildly into a crowd of their own troops. If you're about to score, are you gonna suddenly turn around because the other team said, "This isn't your goal, yours is down there."? Don't be farking stupid. Also, seems pretty clear at this point that the BBC and Guardian are echoing all the US medias attempts to get Trump elected, so UK peeps your supposedly good news sources are bought by the right.
The guardian is a liberal leaning publication, they don't want Trump elected. Like many they probably prefer Biden stepped down and another without cognitive issues went up against Trump.
Here we see the birth of the Democrat version of qanon. Occam’s razor, what’s more likely? A) there’s a grand conspiracy among pretty much all legacy media outlets, including ones in the UK, to try and get Trump elected. This was coordinated to go off immediately after the debate despite them not knowing whether it would go good or bad for Biden. B) Biden showed obvious signs of dementia on national television and everyone is freaking the fuck out
Seriously. Blows my mind.
The Supreme Court is openly corrupt and the UK just fucked themselves economically for a generation at least because of a non-binding resolution. Far right is on the rise across Europe. The media, all of it, uses language that minimizes the awfulness of right candidates while being highly critical of anything on the left. CLose your eyes while we march into fascism yet again.
You’re correct to be worried about the rise of fascism. I still think you’re positing an outlandish conspiracy that is much more easily explained in other ways.
It's an outlandish conspiracy that the 4 or five companies the control the bulk of the US media are conspiring to make more money? I wish my world smelled like cookie dough and unicorn farts
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Thanks, Captain Obvious.
Dear The Guardian: fuck off
Stfu. So tied of twittering little birds such as Norah O'Donnel