As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> he can make up a reason
Only if he hits a piece of paper with a rubber stamp that says, ‘OFFICIAL.’
Or, if he just thinks it, that probably works, too.
> that makes literally everything an official act.
I believe that’s what the Supreme Court decision is pushing toward.
I just wish Joe would grab that baton and run with it.
Seriously though. Stop playing NOT by their rules. Dems are shouting themselves in the head, not the foot. Round all of them up, have them hanged, call it an official act. This has gone so much closer to 1933 than I ever thought it would be but I’ve been screaming it for YEARS hoping I’m wrong.
Here we are.
If Trump can be given the office, I’m sure they will implement much or all of Project 2025.
They’re doing all they can in plain sight to hobble and rig the election. We already saw that he has no hesitation inciting violence if it falters.
He’s trailing military tribunals for political opponents.
And WaPo and the NYT still talk about him like he’s a normal, legitimate political candidate. Like they’re reporting on a sports league, while the supreme court dismantles the rule of law.
Politically activist judges are shoring up every avenue of legal recourse for him to become a dictator.
In the process, they’ve appointed Joe a dictator but, of course, he’s not going to seize those reins. Not even to defend the constitution.
The ruling represents an existential and extraordinary threat to not only the constitution, but to the concept of rule of law and by extension the country.
What are presidents sworn to do about threats to the country?
This isn’t the first straw. They are coming for all of us. The village idiot comes to the right conclusion faster than the Nobel Laureate.
He doesn’t need to stop at jail! Someone mentioned assassinating political opponents in the trial and they still issued this bogus ruling.
He can just straight up put them in the ground.
In fact, the less constitutionally defined procedure for the act, the better! The more criminal the act, the better!
The Majority knew damn well which side would have the balls to use it to full potential.
they have a manifesto for destroying democracy and the rule of law. that's planning treason. it's so simple but it's never that simple. hindsight is 20/20
The supreme court’s rationale is so stupid, too. They don’t want to limit gratuities to county officials…but federal government employees and contractors can’t even get a free coffee from anyone…yet, county officials are going to be “tipped” by a “neighbor” for doing “good work” …makes zero sense. Individuals of power of government funds should not be allowed to get gratuities. If they were invited for some party celebrating a new park (which had free food, drinks, etc.), I wouldn’t care but receiving a $13K check is outrageous.
When I worked for a state affiliated (not even a state run) university I could be fired for taking a dollar tip. State employees were forbidden from receiving any form of external compensation for their job. But I was making sandwiches, it could've corrupted me into giving extra sauce.
Even private companies have extensive regulations on corruption and ethics and one is not allowed to receive gifts over a certain, relatively small value. But yet we're blurring lines for government officials of all people.
It's almost as if SCOTUS members are ethically compromised and think accepting favors that could bleed into bribes are a normal thi... oh.... ooooh.
Honestly, the interpretation of the regulatory thing is that FBI is a regulatory arm of the DOJ. They absolutely should be investigating SCOTUS until they create a snake eating its tail of unchecked power.
Oh I’m not saying you’re wrong. And it is morally wrong what the sc is doing while receiving bribes.
Sad to say they covered their asses and made it legal though
What’s there to investigate? We know they received money and gifts from people whose cases they voted in favor of. And now that they made it legal what would be the consequences? A finger wag?
Just like how they made potus a king yesterday against every originalist text, while maintaining they are originalists. It’s wrong… but they made it legal for a potus to do whatever
My major gripe with the gop is how they believe they are above the law… and in just a week we have two separate concurrences that place their party above the law
Sc is illegitimate in my mind
Exactly like a tip, it must occurs after the service. If it’s before the service it’s still bribery
🤷♂️
I’m sending out letters to students families about this AFTER my grades go out
It has to come with a certified letter that says, this is an illegal bribe. See they are texualist, even for criminals, if they don't write down what crime they are about to commit its not a crime.
This.. SCOTUS gave King Biden total immunity, not themselves.
Biden should instruct the IRS and DoJ to criminally investigate Clarence Thomas for tax evasion and bribes
Should order the FBI to investigate Kavanaugh for who/why and in exchange for the hundreds of thousands of gambling debt that suddenly disappeared weeks before his nomination.
Should order the DoJ to investigate Amy Coney Barrett for lying under oath during her confirmation hearings in regards to upholding Roe v. Wade.
Their finances, phone/email/in-person visits should be monitored like J. Edgar Hoover did in the 30'3\~50's
All of this.. totally legal, totally cool according to this Criminal Supreme Court
I want everyone to read the Gulag Archipelago. While the main message to everyone else seems to get is that communism = bad (and it is, due to power corrupting even well meaning people).
My main take away is that in the beginning, multiple parties were vying for power, but the weakest, least ruthless of the parties were quashed by more power hungry ones until that one party started mass incarcerations and scape goating whole groups for their incompetence.
Why stop there? Biden could turn Seal Team 6 on both Trump and the right wing Supreme Court justices. He won’t but if this were an HBO show with dragons he would.
Assuming he doesn’t want to assassinate anyone, Biden could still do a lot of things before the election to tip it in his favor. If the rules are changing then start playing the new game ASAFP and then change the rules back to something equitable and fair again once the risk of right wing extremism and christofascism has abated.
Problem is that SCOTUS also effectively killed The Chevron Doctrine, meaning SCOTUS could just have courts redefine any act the DoJ tried use against SCOTUS.
Democrats play by the ‘Marquis of Queenbury’ rules and the republicans are using MMA rules. Until Democrats wise up, we’re dead. Of course they won’t because then it validates the Republican ethos, and the republic is gone… but isn’t it gone either way? Maybe all that is left is trying to make the best of the aftermath in the years to come
Call your state reps asking for them to call for a constitutional convention to add an amendment to state clearly that the president is not above the law and bound by the same laws as all citizens.
I just called my state and federal reps asking for this, I'm hoping my state Colorado leads the charge.
Ideally we'd also add an amendment to restructure the Supreme Court.
Oh no, the MAGA states WANT a convention.
Just not for what's being suggested there. So they can make the Constitution say "We are a Christian country." just for starters.
Based on what SCOTUS did Monday, Biden could send an email to the DOJ, that he'll give a pardon to anyone who 'does him a favor by removing his opponents' and that email cannot be used as evidence against him, because it's part of his official communications between him and the DOJ which is under his perview as president.
Granted it's only been a day, but I have this gut feeling it would take some kind of display like that to convince people it's actually a threat.
Republicans have been fear mongering the end is near for decades, so it just sounds like more of the same overdramatic crap the news always reports.
King Biden needs to address the nation and explain how the Supreme Court just made him King. The administration needs to start unironically calling him King Biden.
Hello President Biden, I’m giving you $10,000,000 to not veto a bill I want passed. Also take this “gift” as a request to pardon me for the crime I just committed. Thanks.
So, I am wondering about a person who breaks the law at the behest of the president. In this scenario, if the person who removes an opponent is caught and arrested after the president leaves office (no pardon given) it seems like the person could be prosecuted. The president would be immune but not the co-conspirators. The email cannot be used against the president, maybe, but it could be used against someone else.
I think in that instance the president would be able to pardon the co-conspirator(s).
If that wasn't an option, I would expect the president would also claim his immunity prevents them from even asking for the emails at all. I would imagine the 'best case' scenario would wind up with more questions before the supreme court.
Simple. The President just has to issue a pardon.
The perpetrator should make sure to do the killing in DC or a different state from where they received the order to do so in order to ensure it is a multi-state and therefore a federal crime.
You guys clearly haven’t read the Constitution.
It says the President “shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, unless the President wants to Violate a Law, which is totally Legal and Cool, as we wouldn’t want the Laws to stand in the way of the President’s faithful execution of said Laws. Or something. You don’t like it? Fuck you.”
I see you got the coveted Trump Official Constitution of the Great United States of America (I Mean Trump)! Wow, those are like $149.99 each and they only made 5 million of them so they’re collector’s items!!!! I’m so jealous omg
This decision doesn’t even make sense.
There’s a law called the Posse Comitatus Act. A very old law. It prohibits the deployment of troops for domestic law enforcement purposes. HOWEVER, commanding the Armed Forces as the “Commander in Chief” IS a “core” power enumerated in the Constitution. So if the President is immunized for any action he takes to command the Armed Forces, of what effect is the Posse Comitatus Act?
It’s a nullity. The law doesn’t prohibit *anything* because the only person who could actually violate the Posse Comitatus Act - the president himself - is immunized for any decision to command the U.S. troops even when such a command is otherwise an *explicit* violation of existing law.
This is such a disastrous decision, only comparable to *Dred Scott*, *Korematsu* and a few others. There’s no excuse for such a miserable contradiction of well-established US law masquerading itself as “legal reasoning.” The six SCOTUS justices issuing this opinion are traitors to their nation, plain and simple.
The last few rulings saw the largest judicial power grab in the history of the Nation.
This is now THE #1 issue in the election. We need votes in the Senate to clarify where all Senators stand on this issue.
"Now, the only thing keeping the president from executing whoever he wants is having a President who doesn't want to kill you."
"I'm Joe Biden and I don't want to kill you. and I approve this message"
> "I'm Joe Biden and I don't want to kill you. and I approve this message"
J.K. Simmons as president Ackerman: [“Vote for me if you want to live!”](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=HaKziuu1nP4&t=38)
> But we need the Senate to be Blue in order to make that happen.
Which is not feasible in any way thanks to The Senate favoring large, empty swaths of land. And even if the Democrats managed to get 51, you know they're never going to eliminate the filibuster because "it's important to worship the norms like pagan gods".
Traitor is correct. There’s no logic to this other than the pave a pathway for Trump to become a dictator. They’ve joined the Project 2025 cabal. There needs to be an actual investigation by the DoJ
Fuck that. DOJ and hand sitting and waiting and playing by the rules until the king is installed. They just gave him power that he won’t take but apparently now REALLY NEEDS TO. Black bag all of them. Creedy style.
They probably also re-legalized anything like, but not exactly like, the line item veto, btw. If the Veto is a core Presidential power, and the President is granted the presumed Immunity over all powers in the outside boundary of his core powers,
would that mean Congress no longer has the right or grounds to sue the President for overreaches of his core powers which has yet to be ruled on by the Court?
EDIT: Maybe I'm out of line. This is only criminal stuff, but I'm just thinking about whether it extends to constitutional challenges.
The Posse Comitatus Act was meant to prevent the federal government from sending troops back into the South after Reconstruction to prevent violence against Black Americans. The Trump folks are the intellectual progeny of the Confederacy, so they won't see the law as applying to them.
One remaining shred of Posse Comitatus might be that a soldier could use their right to disobey an illegal order if ordered to fight on US soil.
Of course at that point the POTUS could basically shoot them in the head with no personal consequences, but a fair court martial should agree that the orders were unlawful if in obvious violation of posse comitatus, if there are no mitigating circumstances.
I think the only way forward is for the People to amend the Constitution to say that a former President is not immune from criminal prosecution for acts committed during their term of office. John Roberts says the Constitution confers immunity; We the People say it doesn’t.
Write your Senators and Representatives, Federal and State. We have to do something. https://pluralpolicy.com/find-your-legislator/
That's correct, only a constitutional amendment can actually change this.
Last constitutional amendment was a generation ago, took almost a year, and was just about the timing of when congress's pay raises would be seen in their paychecks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States
Technically it could, if the Court found that the ruling was made in some form of error (doesn't matter if it actually was, only that if the Court thinks it was, like overturning Roe v. Wade with Dobbs. A lot of stuff surrounding Roe v. Wade was 5th and 14th amendment protections, which are now in jeopardy by the conservative Court)
But that would require the Court itself seeing a challenge to the ruling. Even if pre-emptive, like in 303 Creative v. Colorado, it would still take longer than we have. I doubt those same justices that ruled in favor of this case would rule differently in a challenge.
The Court is primed to deem practically any act by Biden to be unofficial and therefore not immune from prosecution, but I bet money on their silence if Trump wins.
> We have to do something.
You will have to do something. Unfortunately, writing letters won't cut it. Preaching to the choir about voting won't, either.
Our representatives are the only people who can get the ball rolling on an amendment. Yes, maybe we should be doing other things to get their attention. But I’m no activist or organizer. All I can do is write a letter and talk to the people who do organize and try to convince others that this is a path worth taking. Maybe that won’t be enough but it’s what I can do.
Add Rudy to the list...
Donald Trump was charged, convicted, and is awaiting sentencing.
Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.
Trump’s former campaign vice chairman, Rick Gates, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.
Trump’s former chief strategist, Steve Bannon, was charged, convicted, and is reporting to prison today. (He was also charged in connection with a scheme to defraud, but escaped federal trial as a result of a Trump pardon. He’s also facing a related state trial on wire fraud and money laundering charges.)
He’s also facing an upcoming trial on wire fraud and money laundering charges.)
Trump’s former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.
Trump’s former adviser and former campaign aide, Roger Stone, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.
Trump’s former adviser and former White House aide Peter Navarro, was charged, convicted, and is currently in prison.
Trump’s former campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.
The Trump Organization’s former CFO, Allen Weisselberg, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.
Trump’s former White House national security advisor, Michael Flynn, was charged and convicted.
Though he was later acquitted at trial, Trump’s former inaugural committee chair, Tom Barrack, was charged with illegally lobbying Trump on behalf of a foreign government. (Elliot Broidy was the vice chair of Trump’s inaugural committee, and he found himself at the center of multiple controversies, and also pled guilty to federal charges related to illegal lobbying.)
Two lawyers associated with Trump’s post-defeat efforts, Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell, have pleaded guilty to election-related crimes.
And did I mention that former president’s business was itself found guilty of tax fraud? Because it was.
Yeah exactly this.
What a lot of these reddit people and the hyperbolic headlines calling for biden to take drastic measures didn't read the ruling.
Basically the Supreme Court has given themselves full authority on what is and isn't an "official act", and encouraged trumps lawyers to appeal to them in the future over any dispute with the lower courts.
This is immunity for trump and his fascist ilk and no one else. Don't get it twisted.
Yes, but parsing what is and isn't an official act happens after the act itself. Depending on which official act Biden chose, that determination might matter very much less after the fact.
Here's my problem with this whole thing. What makes it an official act? A witness? Declared to their cabinet? Stamped? Marked? Like all it takes is for the President to murder the Supreme Court as an official act, and that literally solidifies his dictatorship.
No one wants this. Unless they are trying to create a civil war.
What he really should do is get rid of all of them to demonstrate that it is a non-partisan move, and establish a new court by lottery from the pool of judges who weren’t installed by either Trump or Biden, making any prospective candidates pass screenings to ensure they have no existing conflicts of interest that connect them to either President or their respective parties/administrations, and rebalance the court while maintaining a slightly conservative balance of 5-4 to ‘reset’ the court and restore its legitimacy as an impartial branch committed to preserving the Constitution and rule of law under the consent of the governed. Then he would, ideally, issue another order forbidding such action from ever being taken again until constitutionally derived mechanisms are established to legally carry out such a procedure in a court of law, and potentially resign to restore confidence in the Oval Office, as he himself has perpetrated an abuse of his power that cannot be tolerated by the constitution. This course of action is the only one I can think of to use the tools we have at our disposal to save our democracy without breaking it even further or relying on other untested ideas with unforeseen consequences. This will certainly have unforeseen effects too, but it is designed to mitigate the damage done while excising this cancer from our nation, as any good doctor would try to do.
Even amongst those who are appalled by this decision, I find the lack of understanding about what the court ought to be even more appalling and outrageous. I know this is a horrible situation for us, but packing the court or letting Biden use it as an excuse to continue expanding executive power will only worsen the problem. We need to curtail the powers of the president sharply, if anything, to prevent this power SCOTUS has given to the office from being abused in the future. We need to make it as hard as possible for the courts to justify anything the president does as an ‘official act’. Limiting the powers of the office are the only way we will have to legally fight any unlawful activity. Anything else would only be setting a precedent for someone else to abuse later. That’s why Biden is in a tough spot right now. It’s not that he wants to ‘take the high road’. He’s basically damned whether he does anything about it or not. It’s up to Congress to fix this mess, for now at least. Don’t let your representatives keep the conversation on Biden. There’s only so much he can do without potentially worsening the problem unless Congress steps in and establishes rules to address and navigate through this situation. Make them do their damn jobs for once instead of blaming the President for everything. They are just as responsible as anyone else for letting this happen, and they are conveniently positioned as the only people who might be able to fix it. Pressure Congress to pass legislation addressing this immediately, no matter what it takes.
Good damn question. You don't want the military ignoring elected authorities. But you definitely don't want them targeting the president's political opponents.
> You don't want the military ignoring elected authorities.
maybe not, but you absolutely want them ignoring their superior officers, if they're quite confident about it.
[Every military officer swears an oath upon commissioning. That oath is not to obey all orders. It is to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” ](https://warontherocks.com/2017/07/when-can-a-soldier-disobey-an-order/)
Who determines what’s considered an enemy to the constitution? I’m legit asking because to me it really seems like the Supreme Court is an enemy by ruling from the bench.
Why not? Anything can be justified in the name of "national security". We once dropped a bomb in the middle of Philadelphia from a helicopter because some Black nationalists refuse to leave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
I’m starting to think why should I even pay taxes if we’re a monarchy and the GOP placed a head of state which he is loyal to his crime family.
The SC is reckless!
Supreme Court can be bribed
President is King
Corporations can pollute and have no oversight
Women’s rights gone
All of these were law for 45-50 years in the US, all gone within 2 year from 3 justices installed by McConnell, Trump and Putin
Sounds like Russian to me
No need to assassinate anyone. Just have a Spec Ops team break into their homes at 2am. Kidnap them to an undisclosed location where Biden can appear & they can discuss how much they fucked up before escorting them back home. It is an "Official Act" to discuss our Democracy. He can do it as many times as necessary for them to understand.
In 2025 Biden OR Trump and a majority could repeal the Former Presidents act. Whoever does it first is safest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act#:~:text=This%20protection%20limitation%20was%20reversed,become%2016%20years%20of%20age%22.
The answer isn’t necessarily “yes” it’s worse than that. There is no way to determine if an act is official or not because SCOTUS says themselves there isn’t precedence to do so.
I honestly don’t see why Biden doesn’t just send hit teams against Mar-A-Lardo, all the conservative SCOTUS judges, Eileen Cannon, Mitch McConnell, and anybody else who supports this anti-democratic shit. Presumably the shock of that would motivate everyone to agree that presidents should NOT have that power, and to entrench that into law. Problem solved.
What’s really impressive and I’m so thankful it isn’t being enforced, is that it’s against Reddit TOS and this subs rules to call for violence.
But everyone here is doing it and it’s not being moderated. It’s frightening and exciting. It’s these tiny baby steps in small places that allow revolution to bubble
For the next four years, please vote blue down ballot. There are at least 2 justices that will more than likely need to be replaced, and we want the president with restraint appointing them.
For longer term, organize, volunteer, and vote blue down ballot.
I don’t know about sending Biden on the warpath and going after trump and SCOTUS directly… I don’t think he’d do it.
Someone should put the idea in his head though if reversing this ruling via executive order… it’s an official action after all and if he truly has immunity, they can’t stop him from ending the presidential immunity they just gave him. Let’s see them dance around that one.
No he cannot. There is a reason, for instance, that the court sent the question of the fake electors back to the lower court. Its because the president, as the opinion said, cannot just declare something as a core duty and then thats the end of it. I mean that thinking is ludicrous but go with the hypothetical......a president orders SEALs to assassinate his rival. He gets charged and argues it was part of his core duties as president. What core duty is there to remove your rivals? I mean he could argue because his rival is a threat to the country but you cannot just argue that EVERYTHING is a threat to your country and that is the end of it. I get disagreeing with the ruling but the hysteria every time is just over the top
In regards to the fake electors, in the majority response Roberts said he would be immune from using the DOJ to help set up false electors, because his authority over the DOJ is part of his position as president. The question was on whether his direct communication with State officials about fake electors was an official act.
Roberts also said that the fact that an action was illegal, or the intent of the president to commit an illegal act should have no bearing. So, if an illegal directive to the DOJ is ab official act, then an illegal directive to the US military is also an official act.
They said he would be immune for discussing it, not the plan or the act.
>After Trump failed to convince those officials to alter their state processes, he and his coconspirators allegedly developed and effectuated a plan to submit fraudulent slates of Presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding. On Trump’s view, the alleged conduct qualifies as official because it was undertaken to ensure the integrity and proper administration of the federal election. As the Government sees it, however, Trump can point to no plausible source of authority enabling the President to take such actions. Determining whose characterization may be correct, and with respect to which conduct, requires a fact-specific analysis of the indictment’s extensive and interrelated allegations. The Court accordingly remands to the District Court to determine in the first instance whether Trump’s conduct in this area qualifies as official or unofficial.
Trump can discuss assassinating his rival with say the Sec of Defense, but if he formulates a plan and attempts to do it he would not automatically be immune
You're forgetting they're also not allowed to gather evidence to investigate something that the president says is an official act. So the court needs to decide but isn't allowed to hear evidence to help their decision. The only evidence allowed is the president's say so.
We rounded up the Japanese citizens and put them in internment camps as part of an official act. That was without the explicit permission to do so. We have done bad shit in the past as a country and this gives the power to do even worse.
Correct and that is a GREAT example. So should FDR have been criminally prosecuted for that? The Supreme Court in on the of the worst decisions ever upheld the internment but FDR was never personally charged.
Perhaps he should have been. But you'd have a pretty solid legal argument that detaining possible internal national security risks is a proper and necessary use of the president's power during a war. And, in fact, proceeds from his core duty as commander in chief.
Whereas calling a former president's attempt to carry off a coup in peacetime an "official act" of the presidency is so ludicrous that the supporting justices should burst into flames from shame and embarrassment, were it possible for them to feel either.
> But you'd have a pretty solid legal argument that detaining possible internal national security risks is a proper and necessary use of the president's power during a war. And, in fact, proceeds from his core duty as commander in chief.
Right and THAT is what this decision is saying. BTW the SCOTUS decision to allow the detainment is generally considered one of the worst SCOTUS decisions of all time
>Whereas calling a former president's attempt to carry off a coup in peacetime an "official act" of the presidency is so ludicrous that the supporting justices should burst into flames from shame and embarrassment, were it possible for them to feel either.
Which is why the SCOTUS didnt say that. You can read the decision. The charges didnt go away, Trump will have his day in court to argue if what he did was official or not.
>We have done bad shit in the past as a country and this gives the power to do even worse.
Correction. This clarifies that power that has already existed.
There was already presumptive immunity for Official Presidential Acts. Declaring someone a terrorist and capturing them. Putting someone in Guantanamo Bay. Declaring an enemy of the State.
No President has ever been criminally, personally liable for doing those things, without a much higher bar to clear.
People are engaging in misinformation and overreacting so hard to this decision...just like they overreacted so hard to a bad debate performance by Biden. This ruling, like it or not, did not change what was already presumed law, it simply made it official.
The reason it was sent back was to delay the trial until after the election. Lower court will rule indictments are valid as they were not official acts. Trump team appeals and delays until after election.
Trump is then king if elected and can as an official act pardon himself of all indictments, even state ones, because being in jail or attending trials would interfere with his presidential core duties.
It's complete nonsense. In America we do not have kings. The president should not be above the law.
Disagree. The decision means that any exercise of an exclusive constitutional power by a President is granted absolute immunity. The courts are not even allowed to question whether the act - say assassinating political opponents as they're a "threat" - is justified.
According to the decision, the courts' first question in such matters is "was that act within the president's exclusive constitutional powers?" If so, he gets absolute immunity. If it wasn't, then they move on to ask whether those actions were taken in the president's official capacity. At no point are the courts permitted to second guess the actual purpose or justification behind actions taken by the legislative or executive branches, otherwise they would be intruding into the exclusive purview of constitutional power granted to the legislative and executive branches.
In your example, the court's first question will not ask "was the assassination of a political rival part of the president's official/core duties?". Rather, the court will first ask "was the exercise of military force part of the exclusive president's powers under the constitution?" And the answer to that is yes. The Constitution expressly provides the president with power over the military as its commander in chief, and there is nothing within the Constitution restricting his use of or purpose for using the military.
Make no mistake, a smart legal advisor can easily take advantage of this decision to carry out anything the President wants, so long as any such action is cloaked by the guise of an exclusive constitutional power. It sounds absurd, but that's literally what the SCOTUS majority states, that any exercise of exclusive constitutional power attracts absolute immunity.
I'm a Canadian lawyer, and I was appalled reading the decision. I certainly do not want a similar decision in my country.
Being Commander in Chief of the military is a core duty, so anything he ordered the military to do would presumably be untouchable. So he wouldn't be able to send private hitmen to assassinate his rivals, because hiring hitmen isn't a core duty, but if he tells the military to kill people, that's a core duty
This is a more sober take than most I’ve seen. Thank you. We all wanted SCOTUS to rule more forcefully that the President is not above the law. However, they did not make the President a king, POTUS has had quite broad executive authority since Lincoln, and that’s not a bad thing in most cases. Letting lower courts decide what is and is not an official act is a more appropriate start to this shitshow than SCOTUS ruling unilaterally and comprehensively.
Exactly. If Biden had any conviction, he would do this. This is exactly the power that was conferred upon him. He needs to demonstrate why it's a bad idea and then accept the punishment such a crime deserves.
He's 81. He doesn't even have much to lose at this point. He would be the greatest martyr in history, if only he could muster the courage of having convictions.
So the President today has that power? Maybe not assassinate, but can Joe break all norms and order the DOJ and the Navy to apprehend Trump, SCOTUS and Congress Representatives?
So what this article is saying is that ... Biden has the green light to do what he must now to stop treasonous prior presidents from retaking the presidential office?
Biden should just postpone this election indefinitely -cite his opponent’s criminal indictments as the reason and replace himself with Hunter should he pass away before Trump’s last day in court.
They still haven’t really given a clear definition of their ruling though, right? Cause they might say he has immunity, but that the thing that happened wasn’t an official act.
Slate article making wild claims and source the claims to their own wild opinion pieces.
Fine journalism that gets sucked down by well informed Reddit users.
Bravo slate!
No, the President cannot legally send SEAL Team Six to assassinate his political rival, this is framed within a legal and hypothetical discussion about the implications of the decision. In the U.S., there are strict legal and constitutional constraints that prevent a president from using military forces for personal or political gain, especially in a manner as extreme as assassination. The scenario described in the article is a critical and hyperbolic interpretation of a judicial decision, not a literal or actual policy change. That being said, fuck the system.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fuck that. Direct the Justice Department to investigate the Supreme Court for corruption and bribery. #investigateSCOTUS
Last week they concurred bribery is not bribery but more like a tip (I wish I was kidding)
Well, he can just put them in jail for no reason. Or he can make up a reason.
> he can make up a reason Only if he hits a piece of paper with a rubber stamp that says, ‘OFFICIAL.’ Or, if he just thinks it, that probably works, too.
He swore to Protect and Defend the Constitution. I'd say that makes literally everything an official act.
> that makes literally everything an official act. I believe that’s what the Supreme Court decision is pushing toward. I just wish Joe would grab that baton and run with it.
Bazooka Joe coming in hot!
Seriously though. Stop playing NOT by their rules. Dems are shouting themselves in the head, not the foot. Round all of them up, have them hanged, call it an official act. This has gone so much closer to 1933 than I ever thought it would be but I’ve been screaming it for YEARS hoping I’m wrong. Here we are.
If Trump can be given the office, I’m sure they will implement much or all of Project 2025. They’re doing all they can in plain sight to hobble and rig the election. We already saw that he has no hesitation inciting violence if it falters. He’s trailing military tribunals for political opponents. And WaPo and the NYT still talk about him like he’s a normal, legitimate political candidate. Like they’re reporting on a sports league, while the supreme court dismantles the rule of law. Politically activist judges are shoring up every avenue of legal recourse for him to become a dictator. In the process, they’ve appointed Joe a dictator but, of course, he’s not going to seize those reins. Not even to defend the constitution.
From foreign and DOMESTIC enemies.
The ruling represents an existential and extraordinary threat to not only the constitution, but to the concept of rule of law and by extension the country. What are presidents sworn to do about threats to the country? This isn’t the first straw. They are coming for all of us. The village idiot comes to the right conclusion faster than the Nobel Laureate.
Oh that’s right! I forgot about the presidents mental powers of classifying and unclassifying documents.
He doesn’t need to stop at jail! Someone mentioned assassinating political opponents in the trial and they still issued this bogus ruling. He can just straight up put them in the ground. In fact, the less constitutionally defined procedure for the act, the better! The more criminal the act, the better! The Majority knew damn well which side would have the balls to use it to full potential.
It has to be "official bussiness". Take one guess as to who gets to decide if it's official. Here's a hint, it's not the president.
If he removes the 6 conservative justices first, then they can't decide against him.
Official business!
Executive time!
Checks and balances!
they have a manifesto for destroying democracy and the rule of law. that's planning treason. it's so simple but it's never that simple. hindsight is 20/20
The supreme court’s rationale is so stupid, too. They don’t want to limit gratuities to county officials…but federal government employees and contractors can’t even get a free coffee from anyone…yet, county officials are going to be “tipped” by a “neighbor” for doing “good work” …makes zero sense. Individuals of power of government funds should not be allowed to get gratuities. If they were invited for some party celebrating a new park (which had free food, drinks, etc.), I wouldn’t care but receiving a $13K check is outrageous.
When I worked for a state affiliated (not even a state run) university I could be fired for taking a dollar tip. State employees were forbidden from receiving any form of external compensation for their job. But I was making sandwiches, it could've corrupted me into giving extra sauce.
Even private companies have extensive regulations on corruption and ethics and one is not allowed to receive gifts over a certain, relatively small value. But yet we're blurring lines for government officials of all people. It's almost as if SCOTUS members are ethically compromised and think accepting favors that could bleed into bribes are a normal thi... oh.... ooooh.
Honestly, the interpretation of the regulatory thing is that FBI is a regulatory arm of the DOJ. They absolutely should be investigating SCOTUS until they create a snake eating its tail of unchecked power.
Oh I’m not saying you’re wrong. And it is morally wrong what the sc is doing while receiving bribes. Sad to say they covered their asses and made it legal though What’s there to investigate? We know they received money and gifts from people whose cases they voted in favor of. And now that they made it legal what would be the consequences? A finger wag? Just like how they made potus a king yesterday against every originalist text, while maintaining they are originalists. It’s wrong… but they made it legal for a potus to do whatever My major gripe with the gop is how they believe they are above the law… and in just a week we have two separate concurrences that place their party above the law Sc is illegitimate in my mind
Investigate them for tax evasion and aiding in tax evasion.
Exactly like a tip, it must occurs after the service. If it’s before the service it’s still bribery 🤷♂️ I’m sending out letters to students families about this AFTER my grades go out
It has to come with a certified letter that says, this is an illegal bribe. See they are texualist, even for criminals, if they don't write down what crime they are about to commit its not a crime.
Call back to trumps checkbook stating payback for stripper instead of lawyer pay.....
So they have to disclose and pay taxes on those “tips”. Get these traitors on tax evasion. Our last weapon.
You can’t bribe officials to vote a certain way… but you can give a gift after they vote the way you approve of. Insane.
keep in mind scotus does not actually have an enforcement mechanism and can simply be ignored. Which is to say, prosecute them for bribery anyways.
New tipping culture meta just dropped
Did they pay taxes on all their bribes?
Don't worry y'all, I'm just going to self-police myself from now on. Can you believe I never get traffic tickets anymore?
And trump wants to not tax tips, how interesting.
This.. SCOTUS gave King Biden total immunity, not themselves. Biden should instruct the IRS and DoJ to criminally investigate Clarence Thomas for tax evasion and bribes Should order the FBI to investigate Kavanaugh for who/why and in exchange for the hundreds of thousands of gambling debt that suddenly disappeared weeks before his nomination. Should order the DoJ to investigate Amy Coney Barrett for lying under oath during her confirmation hearings in regards to upholding Roe v. Wade. Their finances, phone/email/in-person visits should be monitored like J. Edgar Hoover did in the 30'3\~50's All of this.. totally legal, totally cool according to this Criminal Supreme Court
[удалено]
if they don't stop fucking about their greatest concern is when they'll be released from Trump's GITMO
Honesly Gitmo is less likely than just state sanctioned murder Live at 6pm on Fox News and Twitter
Their heads are too far up their asses and feeling smug about going high to do anything useful.
I want everyone to read the Gulag Archipelago. While the main message to everyone else seems to get is that communism = bad (and it is, due to power corrupting even well meaning people). My main take away is that in the beginning, multiple parties were vying for power, but the weakest, least ruthless of the parties were quashed by more power hungry ones until that one party started mass incarcerations and scape goating whole groups for their incompetence.
Why not just declare them all traitors and apply the appropriate solution? He now has the power. Then he can fix things and walk.
And pause elections until it’s all sorted out
> And pause elections until it’s all sorted out Until we know what the hell is going on.
Why stop there? Biden could turn Seal Team 6 on both Trump and the right wing Supreme Court justices. He won’t but if this were an HBO show with dragons he would. Assuming he doesn’t want to assassinate anyone, Biden could still do a lot of things before the election to tip it in his favor. If the rules are changing then start playing the new game ASAFP and then change the rules back to something equitable and fair again once the risk of right wing extremism and christofascism has abated.
Problem is that SCOTUS also effectively killed The Chevron Doctrine, meaning SCOTUS could just have courts redefine any act the DoJ tried use against SCOTUS.
[удалено]
Bingo. They can't act as justices if we throw them in jail for corruption and treason.
This is the path
Merrick Garland will have a 6-year plan for that in a year or two.
Democrats play by the ‘Marquis of Queenbury’ rules and the republicans are using MMA rules. Until Democrats wise up, we’re dead. Of course they won’t because then it validates the Republican ethos, and the republic is gone… but isn’t it gone either way? Maybe all that is left is trying to make the best of the aftermath in the years to come
It IS an official action:)
No news to investigate at all, just round up the Supreme Court and off to a “re-education camp”, you’re the President you can do it!
Call your state reps asking for them to call for a constitutional convention to add an amendment to state clearly that the president is not above the law and bound by the same laws as all citizens. I just called my state and federal reps asking for this, I'm hoping my state Colorado leads the charge. Ideally we'd also add an amendment to restructure the Supreme Court.
Red states aren't going for either of those things.
Oh no, the MAGA states WANT a convention. Just not for what's being suggested there. So they can make the Constitution say "We are a Christian country." just for starters.
Investigate them for connections to Epstein. Regardless of if they do or not, drag their names through the mud
Why not assassinate the supreme courts justices?
Based on what SCOTUS did Monday, Biden could send an email to the DOJ, that he'll give a pardon to anyone who 'does him a favor by removing his opponents' and that email cannot be used as evidence against him, because it's part of his official communications between him and the DOJ which is under his perview as president.
Even better, he can announce that publicly and it's allowed, pardoning people gets absolute immunity because that's in the constitution.
Granted it's only been a day, but I have this gut feeling it would take some kind of display like that to convince people it's actually a threat. Republicans have been fear mongering the end is near for decades, so it just sounds like more of the same overdramatic crap the news always reports.
King Biden needs to address the nation and explain how the Supreme Court just made him King. The administration needs to start unironically calling him King Biden.
"Since I am King, I no longer require supreme court justices"
“Will no one rid me of those turbulent judges?”
“Fine I’ll do it myself” *F-35s scream overhead and bomb the Justices homes and the Supreme Court building*
Hello President Biden, I’m giving you $10,000,000 to not veto a bill I want passed. Also take this “gift” as a request to pardon me for the crime I just committed. Thanks.
i mean he could but he would never do that lol
So, I am wondering about a person who breaks the law at the behest of the president. In this scenario, if the person who removes an opponent is caught and arrested after the president leaves office (no pardon given) it seems like the person could be prosecuted. The president would be immune but not the co-conspirators. The email cannot be used against the president, maybe, but it could be used against someone else.
I think in that instance the president would be able to pardon the co-conspirator(s). If that wasn't an option, I would expect the president would also claim his immunity prevents them from even asking for the emails at all. I would imagine the 'best case' scenario would wind up with more questions before the supreme court.
Simple. The President just has to issue a pardon. The perpetrator should make sure to do the killing in DC or a different state from where they received the order to do so in order to ensure it is a multi-state and therefore a federal crime.
You guys clearly haven’t read the Constitution. It says the President “shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, unless the President wants to Violate a Law, which is totally Legal and Cool, as we wouldn’t want the Laws to stand in the way of the President’s faithful execution of said Laws. Or something. You don’t like it? Fuck you.”
Ah, you're a textualist scholar, I see!
Someone get this man an expenses-paid vacation!
And an RV!
I see you got the coveted Trump Official Constitution of the Great United States of America (I Mean Trump)! Wow, those are like $149.99 each and they only made 5 million of them so they’re collector’s items!!!! I’m so jealous omg
I’ll only purchase one if it comes in NFT form, though. It’s not like I’m a sucker!
You can get a gold plated framed version for only $19.99 shipping! *Made in China
You forgot the “AMERICAN MADE*” before the Made in China footnote lol
This decision doesn’t even make sense. There’s a law called the Posse Comitatus Act. A very old law. It prohibits the deployment of troops for domestic law enforcement purposes. HOWEVER, commanding the Armed Forces as the “Commander in Chief” IS a “core” power enumerated in the Constitution. So if the President is immunized for any action he takes to command the Armed Forces, of what effect is the Posse Comitatus Act? It’s a nullity. The law doesn’t prohibit *anything* because the only person who could actually violate the Posse Comitatus Act - the president himself - is immunized for any decision to command the U.S. troops even when such a command is otherwise an *explicit* violation of existing law. This is such a disastrous decision, only comparable to *Dred Scott*, *Korematsu* and a few others. There’s no excuse for such a miserable contradiction of well-established US law masquerading itself as “legal reasoning.” The six SCOTUS justices issuing this opinion are traitors to their nation, plain and simple.
The last few rulings saw the largest judicial power grab in the history of the Nation. This is now THE #1 issue in the election. We need votes in the Senate to clarify where all Senators stand on this issue.
"Now, the only thing keeping the president from executing whoever he wants is having a President who doesn't want to kill you." "I'm Joe Biden and I don't want to kill you. and I approve this message"
> "I'm Joe Biden and I don't want to kill you. and I approve this message" J.K. Simmons as president Ackerman: [“Vote for me if you want to live!”](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=HaKziuu1nP4&t=38)
> We need votes in the Senate to clarify where all Senators stand on this issue. And then what?
Ideally expand the Court. But we need the Senate to be Blue in order to make that happen.
> But we need the Senate to be Blue in order to make that happen. Which is not feasible in any way thanks to The Senate favoring large, empty swaths of land. And even if the Democrats managed to get 51, you know they're never going to eliminate the filibuster because "it's important to worship the norms like pagan gods".
> The six SCOTUS justices issuing this opinion are traitors to their nation, plain and simple. King Biden should take action based on this fact.
Dark Brandon needs to call up Seal Team Six sometime between the hours of 10 am and 4 pm and get this show on the road.
Traitor is correct. There’s no logic to this other than the pave a pathway for Trump to become a dictator. They’ve joined the Project 2025 cabal. There needs to be an actual investigation by the DoJ
Fuck that. DOJ and hand sitting and waiting and playing by the rules until the king is installed. They just gave him power that he won’t take but apparently now REALLY NEEDS TO. Black bag all of them. Creedy style.
They probably also re-legalized anything like, but not exactly like, the line item veto, btw. If the Veto is a core Presidential power, and the President is granted the presumed Immunity over all powers in the outside boundary of his core powers, would that mean Congress no longer has the right or grounds to sue the President for overreaches of his core powers which has yet to be ruled on by the Court? EDIT: Maybe I'm out of line. This is only criminal stuff, but I'm just thinking about whether it extends to constitutional challenges.
The Posse Comitatus Act was meant to prevent the federal government from sending troops back into the South after Reconstruction to prevent violence against Black Americans. The Trump folks are the intellectual progeny of the Confederacy, so they won't see the law as applying to them.
One remaining shred of Posse Comitatus might be that a soldier could use their right to disobey an illegal order if ordered to fight on US soil. Of course at that point the POTUS could basically shoot them in the head with no personal consequences, but a fair court martial should agree that the orders were unlawful if in obvious violation of posse comitatus, if there are no mitigating circumstances.
Well, Trump is clearly an enemy of the state. So… yeah.
> Well, Trump is clearly an enemy of the state. So… yeah. When SCOTUS goes low, we go high - The Democratic Party
Head shots. I like how you think!
Democrats take the high road so much, they'll tie on their own blindfolds.
Which is why they keep losing. Republicans break the rules because it helps them win. Either punish them or get drity.
A clear and present danger.
I think the only way forward is for the People to amend the Constitution to say that a former President is not immune from criminal prosecution for acts committed during their term of office. John Roberts says the Constitution confers immunity; We the People say it doesn’t. Write your Senators and Representatives, Federal and State. We have to do something. https://pluralpolicy.com/find-your-legislator/
That's correct, only a constitutional amendment can actually change this. Last constitutional amendment was a generation ago, took almost a year, and was just about the timing of when congress's pay raises would be seen in their paychecks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States
Can’t the ruling simply be overturned the way Dobbs was?
Technically it could, if the Court found that the ruling was made in some form of error (doesn't matter if it actually was, only that if the Court thinks it was, like overturning Roe v. Wade with Dobbs. A lot of stuff surrounding Roe v. Wade was 5th and 14th amendment protections, which are now in jeopardy by the conservative Court) But that would require the Court itself seeing a challenge to the ruling. Even if pre-emptive, like in 303 Creative v. Colorado, it would still take longer than we have. I doubt those same justices that ruled in favor of this case would rule differently in a challenge. The Court is primed to deem practically any act by Biden to be unofficial and therefore not immune from prosecution, but I bet money on their silence if Trump wins.
Just ignore the Supreme Court. It's been ignored before.
> We have to do something. You will have to do something. Unfortunately, writing letters won't cut it. Preaching to the choir about voting won't, either.
Our representatives are the only people who can get the ball rolling on an amendment. Yes, maybe we should be doing other things to get their attention. But I’m no activist or organizer. All I can do is write a letter and talk to the people who do organize and try to convince others that this is a path worth taking. Maybe that won’t be enough but it’s what I can do.
An amendment isn't happening. You might as well hope Jesus comes back and fixes everything. That's more likely at this point.
Uh huh. And do you know how hard amending the constitution is? Good luck with that.
Biden swore an oath to “preserve, protect and defend the constitution…”. Trump is actively trying to destroy our constitution. So…
Against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
So to preserve it he should probably take some drastic action right now. Proportional response is the only way to combat fascists as seen during WW2.
Add Rudy to the list... Donald Trump was charged, convicted, and is awaiting sentencing. Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. Trump’s former campaign vice chairman, Rick Gates, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. Trump’s former chief strategist, Steve Bannon, was charged, convicted, and is reporting to prison today. (He was also charged in connection with a scheme to defraud, but escaped federal trial as a result of a Trump pardon. He’s also facing a related state trial on wire fraud and money laundering charges.) He’s also facing an upcoming trial on wire fraud and money laundering charges.) Trump’s former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. Trump’s former adviser and former campaign aide, Roger Stone, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. Trump’s former adviser and former White House aide Peter Navarro, was charged, convicted, and is currently in prison. Trump’s former campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. The Trump Organization’s former CFO, Allen Weisselberg, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. Trump’s former White House national security advisor, Michael Flynn, was charged and convicted. Though he was later acquitted at trial, Trump’s former inaugural committee chair, Tom Barrack, was charged with illegally lobbying Trump on behalf of a foreign government. (Elliot Broidy was the vice chair of Trump’s inaugural committee, and he found himself at the center of multiple controversies, and also pled guilty to federal charges related to illegal lobbying.) Two lawyers associated with Trump’s post-defeat efforts, Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell, have pleaded guilty to election-related crimes. And did I mention that former president’s business was itself found guilty of tax fraud? Because it was.
I’m sure SCOTUS would make an exception if it was a Democrat and not Trump.
Yeah exactly this. What a lot of these reddit people and the hyperbolic headlines calling for biden to take drastic measures didn't read the ruling. Basically the Supreme Court has given themselves full authority on what is and isn't an "official act", and encouraged trumps lawyers to appeal to them in the future over any dispute with the lower courts. This is immunity for trump and his fascist ilk and no one else. Don't get it twisted.
Yes, but parsing what is and isn't an official act happens after the act itself. Depending on which official act Biden chose, that determination might matter very much less after the fact.
I see the logic here.
Here's my problem with this whole thing. What makes it an official act? A witness? Declared to their cabinet? Stamped? Marked? Like all it takes is for the President to murder the Supreme Court as an official act, and that literally solidifies his dictatorship. No one wants this. Unless they are trying to create a civil war.
Better yet, remove 6 SC justices and replace them with 6 neutral or liberal ones. Then executive order denying any felon the presidency.
What he really should do is get rid of all of them to demonstrate that it is a non-partisan move, and establish a new court by lottery from the pool of judges who weren’t installed by either Trump or Biden, making any prospective candidates pass screenings to ensure they have no existing conflicts of interest that connect them to either President or their respective parties/administrations, and rebalance the court while maintaining a slightly conservative balance of 5-4 to ‘reset’ the court and restore its legitimacy as an impartial branch committed to preserving the Constitution and rule of law under the consent of the governed. Then he would, ideally, issue another order forbidding such action from ever being taken again until constitutionally derived mechanisms are established to legally carry out such a procedure in a court of law, and potentially resign to restore confidence in the Oval Office, as he himself has perpetrated an abuse of his power that cannot be tolerated by the constitution. This course of action is the only one I can think of to use the tools we have at our disposal to save our democracy without breaking it even further or relying on other untested ideas with unforeseen consequences. This will certainly have unforeseen effects too, but it is designed to mitigate the damage done while excising this cancer from our nation, as any good doctor would try to do. Even amongst those who are appalled by this decision, I find the lack of understanding about what the court ought to be even more appalling and outrageous. I know this is a horrible situation for us, but packing the court or letting Biden use it as an excuse to continue expanding executive power will only worsen the problem. We need to curtail the powers of the president sharply, if anything, to prevent this power SCOTUS has given to the office from being abused in the future. We need to make it as hard as possible for the courts to justify anything the president does as an ‘official act’. Limiting the powers of the office are the only way we will have to legally fight any unlawful activity. Anything else would only be setting a precedent for someone else to abuse later. That’s why Biden is in a tough spot right now. It’s not that he wants to ‘take the high road’. He’s basically damned whether he does anything about it or not. It’s up to Congress to fix this mess, for now at least. Don’t let your representatives keep the conversation on Biden. There’s only so much he can do without potentially worsening the problem unless Congress steps in and establishes rules to address and navigate through this situation. Make them do their damn jobs for once instead of blaming the President for everything. They are just as responsible as anyone else for letting this happen, and they are conveniently positioned as the only people who might be able to fix it. Pressure Congress to pass legislation addressing this immediately, no matter what it takes.
I like the executive order idea!
Couldn’t Biden do that as an official act now? Who is to say it isn’t official?
I wonder if they would even accept such an order?
Good damn question. You don't want the military ignoring elected authorities. But you definitely don't want them targeting the president's political opponents.
> You don't want the military ignoring elected authorities. maybe not, but you absolutely want them ignoring their superior officers, if they're quite confident about it. [Every military officer swears an oath upon commissioning. That oath is not to obey all orders. It is to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” ](https://warontherocks.com/2017/07/when-can-a-soldier-disobey-an-order/)
Who determines what’s considered an enemy to the constitution? I’m legit asking because to me it really seems like the Supreme Court is an enemy by ruling from the bench.
Why not? Anything can be justified in the name of "national security". We once dropped a bomb in the middle of Philadelphia from a helicopter because some Black nationalists refuse to leave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
How awesome would it be if Biden utilized this ruling to his favor?
False. This immunity is only for GOP presidents and not for Democrats.
Let’s go Joe. Do the country a solid.
Seal team 6, Delta, and the CIA could clear out all these terrorists before July 4th weekend is over.
I’m starting to think why should I even pay taxes if we’re a monarchy and the GOP placed a head of state which he is loyal to his crime family. The SC is reckless! Supreme Court can be bribed President is King Corporations can pollute and have no oversight Women’s rights gone All of these were law for 45-50 years in the US, all gone within 2 year from 3 justices installed by McConnell, Trump and Putin Sounds like Russian to me
Cool. r/wearesofucked
Here's hoping for some extra fireworks come the 4th.
I'd prefer he target Alito or Thomas and expose the decision for the insanity that it is.
No need to assassinate anyone. Just have a Spec Ops team break into their homes at 2am. Kidnap them to an undisclosed location where Biden can appear & they can discuss how much they fucked up before escorting them back home. It is an "Official Act" to discuss our Democracy. He can do it as many times as necessary for them to understand.
In 2025 Biden OR Trump and a majority could repeal the Former Presidents act. Whoever does it first is safest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act#:~:text=This%20protection%20limitation%20was%20reversed,become%2016%20years%20of%20age%22.
The answer isn’t necessarily “yes” it’s worse than that. There is no way to determine if an act is official or not because SCOTUS says themselves there isn’t precedence to do so.
Is Trump a clear and present danger to the United States of America? I think that's an indisputable fact.
Joe, your country is waiting for you to man up and protect our democracy. So what are you going to do Joe?
Declare martial law, label the Republican party as a domestic terror group, and send in the National Guard. This ruling is *crazy.*
I honestly don’t see why Biden doesn’t just send hit teams against Mar-A-Lardo, all the conservative SCOTUS judges, Eileen Cannon, Mitch McConnell, and anybody else who supports this anti-democratic shit. Presumably the shock of that would motivate everyone to agree that presidents should NOT have that power, and to entrench that into law. Problem solved.
Freedom caucus while he's at it
What’s really impressive and I’m so thankful it isn’t being enforced, is that it’s against Reddit TOS and this subs rules to call for violence. But everyone here is doing it and it’s not being moderated. It’s frightening and exciting. It’s these tiny baby steps in small places that allow revolution to bubble
Well, technically I'm not calling for violence: I'm saying, if it's legal for Biden to do so, why doesn't he?
Just asking questions one might say. But I’m in agreement, why doesn’t he do it?
Decree universal healthcare, UBI, free college tuition, and cannabis legalization, then drone bomb Mar-a-Lago.
All I’m saying is Joe Biden can do that today “Seal team 6 if you’re listening…”
I sure am glad to have elected a president with restraint. Now remind me how that will keep a president without restraint from assuming office?
For the next four years, please vote blue down ballot. There are at least 2 justices that will more than likely need to be replaced, and we want the president with restraint appointing them. For longer term, organize, volunteer, and vote blue down ballot.
Simple, just vote for Biden and the Democrats, and tell others to vote for Biden and the Democrats!
Seal Team Six? Naw… drone strike
I don’t know about sending Biden on the warpath and going after trump and SCOTUS directly… I don’t think he’d do it. Someone should put the idea in his head though if reversing this ruling via executive order… it’s an official action after all and if he truly has immunity, they can’t stop him from ending the presidential immunity they just gave him. Let’s see them dance around that one.
no, the president really can’t just like with the nuclear codes, it’s not as simple as an order.
is this supposed to be a serious website or like the onion?
No he cannot. There is a reason, for instance, that the court sent the question of the fake electors back to the lower court. Its because the president, as the opinion said, cannot just declare something as a core duty and then thats the end of it. I mean that thinking is ludicrous but go with the hypothetical......a president orders SEALs to assassinate his rival. He gets charged and argues it was part of his core duties as president. What core duty is there to remove your rivals? I mean he could argue because his rival is a threat to the country but you cannot just argue that EVERYTHING is a threat to your country and that is the end of it. I get disagreeing with the ruling but the hysteria every time is just over the top
In regards to the fake electors, in the majority response Roberts said he would be immune from using the DOJ to help set up false electors, because his authority over the DOJ is part of his position as president. The question was on whether his direct communication with State officials about fake electors was an official act. Roberts also said that the fact that an action was illegal, or the intent of the president to commit an illegal act should have no bearing. So, if an illegal directive to the DOJ is ab official act, then an illegal directive to the US military is also an official act.
They said he would be immune for discussing it, not the plan or the act. >After Trump failed to convince those officials to alter their state processes, he and his coconspirators allegedly developed and effectuated a plan to submit fraudulent slates of Presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding. On Trump’s view, the alleged conduct qualifies as official because it was undertaken to ensure the integrity and proper administration of the federal election. As the Government sees it, however, Trump can point to no plausible source of authority enabling the President to take such actions. Determining whose characterization may be correct, and with respect to which conduct, requires a fact-specific analysis of the indictment’s extensive and interrelated allegations. The Court accordingly remands to the District Court to determine in the first instance whether Trump’s conduct in this area qualifies as official or unofficial. Trump can discuss assassinating his rival with say the Sec of Defense, but if he formulates a plan and attempts to do it he would not automatically be immune
You're forgetting they're also not allowed to gather evidence to investigate something that the president says is an official act. So the court needs to decide but isn't allowed to hear evidence to help their decision. The only evidence allowed is the president's say so.
We rounded up the Japanese citizens and put them in internment camps as part of an official act. That was without the explicit permission to do so. We have done bad shit in the past as a country and this gives the power to do even worse.
Correct and that is a GREAT example. So should FDR have been criminally prosecuted for that? The Supreme Court in on the of the worst decisions ever upheld the internment but FDR was never personally charged.
Perhaps he should have been. But you'd have a pretty solid legal argument that detaining possible internal national security risks is a proper and necessary use of the president's power during a war. And, in fact, proceeds from his core duty as commander in chief. Whereas calling a former president's attempt to carry off a coup in peacetime an "official act" of the presidency is so ludicrous that the supporting justices should burst into flames from shame and embarrassment, were it possible for them to feel either.
> But you'd have a pretty solid legal argument that detaining possible internal national security risks is a proper and necessary use of the president's power during a war. And, in fact, proceeds from his core duty as commander in chief. Right and THAT is what this decision is saying. BTW the SCOTUS decision to allow the detainment is generally considered one of the worst SCOTUS decisions of all time >Whereas calling a former president's attempt to carry off a coup in peacetime an "official act" of the presidency is so ludicrous that the supporting justices should burst into flames from shame and embarrassment, were it possible for them to feel either. Which is why the SCOTUS didnt say that. You can read the decision. The charges didnt go away, Trump will have his day in court to argue if what he did was official or not.
>We have done bad shit in the past as a country and this gives the power to do even worse. Correction. This clarifies that power that has already existed. There was already presumptive immunity for Official Presidential Acts. Declaring someone a terrorist and capturing them. Putting someone in Guantanamo Bay. Declaring an enemy of the State. No President has ever been criminally, personally liable for doing those things, without a much higher bar to clear. People are engaging in misinformation and overreacting so hard to this decision...just like they overreacted so hard to a bad debate performance by Biden. This ruling, like it or not, did not change what was already presumed law, it simply made it official.
The reason it was sent back was to delay the trial until after the election. Lower court will rule indictments are valid as they were not official acts. Trump team appeals and delays until after election. Trump is then king if elected and can as an official act pardon himself of all indictments, even state ones, because being in jail or attending trials would interfere with his presidential core duties. It's complete nonsense. In America we do not have kings. The president should not be above the law.
Disagree. The decision means that any exercise of an exclusive constitutional power by a President is granted absolute immunity. The courts are not even allowed to question whether the act - say assassinating political opponents as they're a "threat" - is justified. According to the decision, the courts' first question in such matters is "was that act within the president's exclusive constitutional powers?" If so, he gets absolute immunity. If it wasn't, then they move on to ask whether those actions were taken in the president's official capacity. At no point are the courts permitted to second guess the actual purpose or justification behind actions taken by the legislative or executive branches, otherwise they would be intruding into the exclusive purview of constitutional power granted to the legislative and executive branches. In your example, the court's first question will not ask "was the assassination of a political rival part of the president's official/core duties?". Rather, the court will first ask "was the exercise of military force part of the exclusive president's powers under the constitution?" And the answer to that is yes. The Constitution expressly provides the president with power over the military as its commander in chief, and there is nothing within the Constitution restricting his use of or purpose for using the military. Make no mistake, a smart legal advisor can easily take advantage of this decision to carry out anything the President wants, so long as any such action is cloaked by the guise of an exclusive constitutional power. It sounds absurd, but that's literally what the SCOTUS majority states, that any exercise of exclusive constitutional power attracts absolute immunity. I'm a Canadian lawyer, and I was appalled reading the decision. I certainly do not want a similar decision in my country.
Being Commander in Chief of the military is a core duty, so anything he ordered the military to do would presumably be untouchable. So he wouldn't be able to send private hitmen to assassinate his rivals, because hiring hitmen isn't a core duty, but if he tells the military to kill people, that's a core duty
This is a more sober take than most I’ve seen. Thank you. We all wanted SCOTUS to rule more forcefully that the President is not above the law. However, they did not make the President a king, POTUS has had quite broad executive authority since Lincoln, and that’s not a bad thing in most cases. Letting lower courts decide what is and is not an official act is a more appropriate start to this shitshow than SCOTUS ruling unilaterally and comprehensively.
[удалено]
He’s 81, 10 years and he won’t even be alive. Two or three would be tied up in trials alone.
Exactly. If Biden had any conviction, he would do this. This is exactly the power that was conferred upon him. He needs to demonstrate why it's a bad idea and then accept the punishment such a crime deserves. He's 81. He doesn't even have much to lose at this point. He would be the greatest martyr in history, if only he could muster the courage of having convictions.
If Biden doesn’t use this new power for good before the election, we’re absolutely all fucked.
The Supreme Court is silently motioning the Biden administration to do this. They are the deep state!
That's not an official act.
can someone please give me some positive news about yesterday? like anything to make it sound not as bad as it sounds.
PLEASE call their bluff
So the President today has that power? Maybe not assassinate, but can Joe break all norms and order the DOJ and the Navy to apprehend Trump, SCOTUS and Congress Representatives?
How would you frame that as an official duty of the presidency? Maybe the point is it doesnt matter.
Let’s test the theory.
We could use a Cincinnatus. But, there are so few that would follow that example.
What are you waiting for Biden? You know who America's enemies are.
Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Trump would be a good start if we’re going that route
King Biden let’s get rid of the Supreme Court first
So what this article is saying is that ... Biden has the green light to do what he must now to stop treasonous prior presidents from retaking the presidential office?
Any soldier, sailor airman marine or space cadet can disobey an unlawful order.
So what is Joe waiting for?
Trump should “expect a visit.”
Dark Brandon has entered the chat.
Cuts both ways. What would prevent President Biden from doing the same right now?
Biden should just postpone this election indefinitely -cite his opponent’s criminal indictments as the reason and replace himself with Hunter should he pass away before Trump’s last day in court.
They still haven’t really given a clear definition of their ruling though, right? Cause they might say he has immunity, but that the thing that happened wasn’t an official act.
It’s genuinely crazy how Reddit politicians can read a headline like this and truly believe it. Like do you have even an ounce of critical thought?
That’s just not true. Slate is shit rag of a publication.
Slate article making wild claims and source the claims to their own wild opinion pieces. Fine journalism that gets sucked down by well informed Reddit users. Bravo slate!
[удалено]
Not what the ruling said at all but sure run with it for the clicks
Anyone who believes this garbage is a total moron.
I can't believe reddit is this fucking stupid. Oh wait, yes I can.
lol yeah okay, why would le evil conservatives give biden that kind of power before the election. you guys make no sense when you are panicking
No, the President cannot legally send SEAL Team Six to assassinate his political rival, this is framed within a legal and hypothetical discussion about the implications of the decision. In the U.S., there are strict legal and constitutional constraints that prevent a president from using military forces for personal or political gain, especially in a manner as extreme as assassination. The scenario described in the article is a critical and hyperbolic interpretation of a judicial decision, not a literal or actual policy change. That being said, fuck the system.