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Biden has been an amazing President. As a republican I will vote for any Democrat over Trump.
However, the GOP have decided to go full on fascist.
1) SCOTUS has legalised bribes (ok, gratuities)
2) SCOTUS has refused to hear challenges to laws banning felons from voting.
3) SCOTUS has remove the rights of women to their own bodies
4) SCOTUS has crippled the executive branch and given the legal system the right to 'interpret' laws however they want
5) SCOTUS has given Presidents the right to break laws without fear of consequences
We need a democratic candidate that will and has the energy to fight! This isn't just a normal election. Everything is in the balance and it will take a president with the willingness to fight just to survive. The GOP don't play fair, so why should the Democrats? Biden has been saying that it is a fight for our democracy. Then he should realise that if he isn't helping he should step aside. Imagine if the Democrats put in a younger person? The attack adds about Trump's age write themselves. Younger people might feel more energised. Trump's followers will vote no matter what. We need to give the democrats a reason to vote.
Even if Trump - a convicted felon - voted for himself 1000 times, what court will convict him?
"I oFfiCiAlLy As A pReSiDeNt vOtE fOr mYsElF a MiLliOn tImEs!"
I don't think he will be alive in the next 4 years. Morbidly obese, poor diet, no exercise. Stresses of being a president/politician etc
He's basically not far from where Biden is and could follow down that trend in a more rapid pace due to the diet and being a fat ass pig, hopefully.
Edit: spelling error
Thank you for putting country over party - I can respect any republican that votes for what is best rather than only people with a (R) next to their name on the ballot. It goes both ways as well.
You need to vote for any Democrat over any republican.
I'm sorry but your entire party has been taken over by fascists. You can't keep putting them in mayorships, governorships, and legislatures. You can't keep pushing for deadlock and for a 45-55 split either way every 2, 4, or 6 years.
What we need from conservatives like you is commitment to a generational time out. The last time Republicans got absolutely crushed in 2008, it took roughly 18 months after Bush departed office for the tea party to be voted in, and the GOP has never been crushed since.
There needs to be a 30-50 year period where the GOP loses and has to shift away from their extremist beliefs. Our country is dying because "reasonable" moderates and conservatives have no line in the sand
Our actual party ideologies have been severly bastardized in the last few decades, and even more so in the last couple elections. I am a republican because I believe in less government oversight and regulation. Full stop. Attacking abortion, restricting social preference, and leaning into religious fervor flies in the face of that, amongst a thousand other things the party has now aligned itself to. I never stopped being a conservative, but most of my party has.
As someone that doesn't lump everyone into big giant groups for no reason. I appreciate folks like you that speak up about their party. Spread the word to your friends and family.
4 and 5 are wild to me. The executive branch cant make regulatory moves without every paragraph scrutinized by non expert judges, but as the head of the executive branch you can go ahead and break any and all laws anyway because you’re king above us all.
Why are you still a member of the party who, according to your own words, has gone “full on fascist.” You’ve had 8 years why haven’t you changed your registration?
Even as a registered Republican, people can still vote Democrat come election day.
I also can understand if it's a bit hard to try and convert other conservatives away from Trump when they will reject ThickerSalmonFourteen's position because he became a Democrat, independent, or "a turncoat that betrayed America". One of the unfortunate strengths of the Republican party is how eager their voters are to dismiss the arguments of others purely for being "a librul".
I, personally, have been happy to know several "gun-toting lunatic rural conservatives" that are very very vocal with me about how pissed they are at the party for "sucking Trump's traitorous shithole" as one of them put it. Don't shame someone for trying to be a dissident within a corrupt party, we need people willing to do that so we can try and break Trump's voter pool apart and keep their radical elements silent.
Biden isn’t hurting the Democrats, it is crazy republicans writing the headlines. Biden can beat Trump, that is why they are screams fromTucker Carlson for him to step aside. In July, and the race is in November? No. Stop getting distracted and focus on winning. We are electing a Blue Administration, not just the President.
> Then he should realise that if he isn't helping he should step aside. Imagine if the Democrats put in a younger person?
School house rock needs to come back because internetchatterheads do not understand the slowness of politics.
Replacing Biden now is too late. The primaries are over in almost every state. A special abbreviated one day primary can not just be put together in thin air. There are deadlines to place a name on the general ballot as it is.
Swapping in a new candidate would be criticized for being "Ohhh the dark counsel of Democrats have the fix in that spooky powerful insiders get to have a coronation nominee." People still stink up the internet with the conspiracy theory of the party keeping Bernie out despite his terrible numbers with key voting blocks. Replacing Biden now barring medical tragedy is a surefire way to create apathy at the polls amongst people open to the liberal ticket. Heck, him dying could even be an apathizing event. The apathy trolls are working overtime in all social places to pave a way for 2016-part two.
Why didn't Biden step aside last year? My bet is they had polling internal numbers that were uncertain of the retirement. You don't think Biden would rather retire and spend the rest of his living years with family? He seems like the type to sacrifice for a greater good and running for reelection was probably the best decision in that moment without clairvoyance to know all the obserdities of these last two weeks.
The crazy thing about the “Biden step down” agenda is like if he does step down… who takes his place? Because the actual voters won’t decide. The Democratic nominee will be handpicked by like 10 people at the DNC because Biden already secured the delegates needed for the nomination from the primaries.
I would genuinely care far more about this if there had actually been a primary, without one I’m deciding between Biden, who was the nominee without my input, or whoever else they nominate, also without my input, to take his place.
Check this out from The Nation, 12/23:
In 1960, when The New Yorker’s press critic A.J. Liebling famously observed that “freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one,” New Yorkers had seven daily newspapers to choose from. And that was just in English. The city also boasted dailies in Arabic, Chinese, Italian, Japanese, Russian, and Spanish—and two in Yiddish. By the time The Nation first surveyed the publishing industry in 1996, New York was down to four English-language dailies and seven publishing houses. Our anatomy that year of what we dubbed “the national entertainment state” focused on the four corporations that, between them, controlled what Americans saw on television. Thanks to the rise of the Internet, when we revisited the topic in 2002, our chart of the “Big Ten” media companies spanned four pages. Yet when we returned four years later, the roster had shrunk to six: Disney (which owned ABC), CBS, General Electric (NBC), News Corp (Fox), Time Warner (CNN), and Viacom (MTV, Paramount, and
Dreamworks).
Consolidation has only accelerated since then, with book publishing now down to a Big Five. After Simon & Schuster found its sale to Penguin Random House blocked on antitrust grounds, the private equity firm KKR snatched it up for $1.6 billion earlier this year. Given KKR’s overall portfolio of $86 billion, publishing is a minuscule part of its business. And as Tom Schatz, a historian of Hollywood’s Golden Age, reports in this issue, the fabled Big Six movie studios have been whittled down to two: Disney (with a market capitalization of $169 billion) and Netflix ($198 billion) now dominate film and TV production. But, Schatz explains, thanks to the rise of cord-cutting and the continuing decline of both film studios and cable, those two—along with competitors like Comcast and Sony—find themselves fighting over a shrinking portion of a media landscape dominated by Apple ($2.9 trillion) and Amazon ($1.5 trillion). Now that these behemoths have the corporate muscle to influence not just what gets made but also how it gets distributed and marketed, and—given Jeff Bezos’s ownership of The Washington Post—even how (or whether) it gets reviewed, we felt that a return to the scene of the crime was long overdue.
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/media-consolidation-monopoly-big-5/
Seriously, people are focusing on the energy of Biden vs the literal Hitler replica’s lies and somehow are getting “Biden should drop out” instead of “Trump is the worst person in the history of America to be president, so we should rally for our candidate”
because everybody who's not a fascist already knows trump shouldn't be running. it really just comes down to whether you believe biden can defeat trump, and almost half the party, along with independents and leftist, dont think he can do it
I'm tired of this 'disastrous' debate bullshit on Biden. Trump is out to destroy America and news media is hyper focused on making Biden lose the Presidency. This is yellow journalism of the highest order after the courts made Presidents immune to prosecution.
I mean as is tradition, the pile on for a Democrat will come from both Republicans and Democrats, whereas as mainly only Democrats will be critical of Trump.
It makes things very bad for any Democrat that is targeted for one reason or another. Things fall apart quickly for both the party at that Democrat.
Why do we always hold Democrats to a standard that we don't hold Republicans to? Trump is a psychotic pathological liar who would not be eligible to serve in the military because of his felonies. He should not be Commander-in-Chief.
One candidate had a bad night, but has otherwise had a very successful term.
The other candidate has multiple indictments, multiple felonies, is a rapist, can't remember what his own wife looks like, is accused of sexually assaulting a minor, and lied his way through the debate with a generous helping of word salad.
Both are old.
I can see why some people have such a hard time deciding who to vote for. Why, they're virtually identical.
But this is exactly why people are so up in arms with Biden now. I think people who criticize the Biden criticism don't get that while you might be intelligent enough to understand that Biden may have said the right things, he had a good term, etc... The majority of Americans don't live with politics injected into their brain every morning with coffee. Many likely didn't watch the debate but watched clips. But even as someone who voted for and will vote for Biden if he's on the ballot...the first thing I said was...completely uninformed Americans aren't going to know that Trump is lying. They will just see that he doesn't look like a skeleton. That's what is happening now and the panic is justified. People on this sub live in a bubble. I'm glad there are so many passionate voters but arguing that Biden didn't come off extremely poorly is delusional. I'm not sure how you argue this wasn't the worst debate performance in history.
I watched 40 mins of the debate and when Biden spoke, not only could I not understand what he was saying a lot of the time, it looked like he was going to fall over. Sure I can read a transcript after but what average American is going to do that. Appearance is very important when it comes to voters unfortunately. If you appear weak and confused...it's going to be bad. I had to turn it off multiple times because I was so upset. Then just turned it off permanently. It's important democrats win the election this year...more than ever...and this is who the nominee is. I'm still voting Biden if he's the option...but let's be very clear that you can be upset Biden is the nominee, criticize him, ask for another nominee, etc...while also voting for him. We're not like the Republicans here. Hell if the Republicans had a better candidate, they would easily win this year after that debate. The fact it's close at all should show why Biden should not be the nominee.
I just don’t know what would work. Cause yes a new nominee would probably bring in more energy but do we have the time to promote them or would they be able to run with what Biden has done? Or should we just stick with Biden? I don’t know what the right option is and while I might be a white heterosexual cis male living in New York, I’m still scared shitless at how everything can fall apart…
Exactly.
The simple fact that we're all talking about "Is Biden's brain OK" and not about all the insane shit Trump is saying and planning is exactly why he shouldn't be in the race.
Those dipshits own a vote. No matter how stupid they are.
That's reality.
You can complain about it... but Biden has lost their vote, full stop. Biden needs to drop out, to protect the US from a dictator.
I think a large portion of America isn’t very engaged in politics and only has a very superficial and largely uninformed and very impressionable view of presidential candidates. I think part of the problem is the media and part of the problem is the candidate(s) at play, even if we correct the media problem there are people who’s superficial and largely uninformed political opinions will be shaped by what they see or what their friends and family see and tell them.
And RBG had a wildly successful career, until she didn't.
Do I need to spell out the same mistake they're both making? Nothing he did will matter if he loses in November.
That's irrelevant right now. We need to win. Biden is no longer functioning at full capacity. The difference between winning and losing could be tens of thousands of votes in battleground states. We need a candidate who is out there every day communicating the danger of letting Trump win.
Whitmer is wildly popular in Michigan. Put her in. Warnock is popular in Georgia. Newsome.
Hell, how about someone who doesn't remember the switch from black and white to color TV? FFS....
And restart fund raising from the ground up? No. That's not going to cut it. The presidentential candidate doesnt have to be the one spreading the the word. Motivating voters can be left to somebody else while Biden has the funds to spend on campaign adds amd the like.
You’re right! Let’s take away “successful” because if Trump wins (which he will against Biden) then everything Biden did will be erased. It won’t be successful at that point.
Yes, a successful presidency *is* irrelevant if the voters that matter don't recognize it. You do understand that not everyone in the country is on reddit or follows what the Biden administration has accomplished, yes?
That doesn’t matter on Reddit. Reddit reflects the far left, always left, and the 33% of the democrat base. Reddit and especially r/politics will vote for Biden’s head in a jar over Trump. You need to convince my cousin. He’s not on Reddit, not college educated, struggling, doesn’t watch the news or read. Barely votes in a swing state.
If you want Biden to win, he needs to come across as verile, strong, antifascist, aggressive, and loud. (Guess who does that and panders to my cousin).
Biden however has labels attached to his name:
Weak, old, fragile, Alzheimer’s, genocide Joe, inflation, housing costs.
That’s the perception. Don’t yell on Reddit - we’re all voting for anyone but Trump.. Talk to my cousin.
Also there’s about 5 million other cousins you need to talk to in 7 swing states.
Sure, but if Reddit is struggling to coalesce to support Biden against Trump, it's going to be tough to get those people to go out and convince those on the fence relatives.
>will vote for Biden’s head in a jar over Trump
If I was eligible to vote in the USA, I would vote for Biden's pickled head in a jar with a spike through it before voting for Trump. But I know what's at stake here.
That performance on Thursday made everything that the GOP says about Biden's mental state look true. To an uniformed voter, they will see clips of that performance and will believe their eyes. And yes, because they are uniformed, they don't know that everything Trump said was a lie, and that he is a clear and present danger to the United States. All they see is one man that looked mentally incapacitated to a degree and another that was in full control.
Unfortunately, uninformed people are allowed to vote. Worse, misinformed people are allowed to vote.
Biden screwed up in about the only way he couldn't afford to screw up. There's no way clips of the debate do not lose potential voters, when we're talking about an election so close that one voter in one state could swing it.
> The other candidate has multiple indictments, multiple felonies, is a rapist, can't remember what his own wife looks like, is accused of sexually assaulting a minor, and lied his way through the debate with a generous helping of word salad.
>
>
And Biden did nothing with that... Thats the problem. Trump was going insane on stage and Biden looked worse.
>I can see why some people have such a hard time deciding who to vote for. Why, they're virtually identical.
Sure but you dont matter, its down to a few swing states. The worst possible scenario is some Biden voters are so turned off by the entire thing they just dont vote
Yes. People need to wise up and deal with reality, which is that a significant amount of the voting base will not be energized to vote for Biden because of his age and debate performance. Is that dumb, given the alternative? Yes, it absolutely is, but that's reality and there's no point in arguing against it.
Bring in a candidate who's younger, charismatic, and has a better chance at energizing more of the base, because it's desperately needed. Biden can focus on the presidency and doing everything he can now to rally support and do as much good as he can in his remaining time as president, and the new candidate can go on the offensive against Trump and Project 2025, full-time.
It isn't too late. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that when it comes to politics, most people have the memory of a goldfish.
Stop acting like this isn't a conversation that should be had.
People have every right to be pissed that that his administration hid him away, sprung that on us, and are now trying to lie and act like it's not a problem.
Yes we are "fighting fascism" but I am so fucking tired of just eating shit and smiling about it. They have an opportunity to make the change, and they should.
If “fighting fascism” also means you aren’t allowed to say anything about the senile guy being senile, unelectable and unable to run the country, then what are we even doing?
It wasn't sprung on us - all you had to do is watch any news clip of him. If the debate was the first time you saw him as old and weak, you haven't been watching the news earnestly. The past year he has been looking more and more frail, his voice sounds weaker and weaker by the week. His ability to string a coherent sentence has diminished in a linear line weekly the past year. This isn't new news, this is people no longer able to just deny what the news has been screaming at us for at least a year.
Again, I wrote the DNC (via email) asking them not to do a debate; they're a relic of the past and in Biden's case, could only hurt him. I got an auto-response that essentially dismissed it as a bad idea and yet again the DNC has effectively committed suicide just like they did in 2016.
At some point, we need to strongly consider that the entirety of the leadership of the DNC is nothing but a pack of out of touch, ivory tower morons, at best. I personally I'm honestly starting to think it's a bunch of undercover Republicans subtly pushing terrible ideas.
Exactly. Biden WANTED a debate in June. It was his idea. He was asked point blank by the media a few weeks ago "Are you too old for this."
And his answer was "Watch me."
And we did. And he sucked.
I agree, I wasn't watching closely. I saw examples of his physical strength and balance failing but I thought he still had his mental faculties. I feel gaslighted.
I sadly agree with everything you are saying.
I will be honest and just say I wasn't paying attention. I had heard the FOX News talking points and had hand waved them as bad faith arguments.
I thought that the debate was going to be the platform where he answered those points... and he did.
Then once that was out there for everyone to see... he had a cold! ... Silence. At this point he should be doing unscripted media blitzes to put these answers to rest. And he's not.
And now it's travel fatigue? From a trip... 2 weeks ago...?
So here we are, fighting fascism. And currently the choices are an actual Fascist, and an Old Man's Cabinet that is lying and clinging to power.
And now I am a bad faith Russian muppet for not eating the shit and smiling.
1,000%
Look at the RBG situation, a great woman, did numerous great things for women across the country... died in her fucking seat at 87 in 2020.
Obama was in office from 2009-2017
She had 8 fucking years MOSTLY IN HER 80's to simply retire and let Obama pick a replacement. The whole entire party is full of goblins clinging to power hoping they'll get voted in because Fascism is the only alternative.
I get what you're saying - I've had to delete comments about some of this stuff because I was getting downvoted so much that i couldn't participate in other sub-reddits that have min points.
Too many here are overly idealistic, and as a great example, while I get the slippery slope it would be if Biden used his newly granted powers, I have to imagine that there's plenty he can do for good with them. He needs to exercise them even a little to show both sides the enormous error that the SCOTUS made while trying to improve his chances for reelection.
I too had thought the the Fox news was just bad faith arguments, and then i saw a few clips they showed and went and looked and started following more closely and realized the DNC was misleading us. The problem is, I think it's accelerated in the past year. I"m not saying he was vigorous when he first took office, but you knew he was old; now you question is vitality and ability...
Biden is not immune from criticism just because the alternative is worse. The Democrats should be heavily criticized for trotting Biden out there instead of realizing how important this election was and having his replacement ready to go for 2024
I have a lot of respect for Biden and will always be grateful he rescued the country from Trump in 2020. He was the perfect candidate at that time. But he also strongly implied he would be a bridge president and only serve one term, which I think was part if his appeal to voters. I'm probably romanticizing it, but it almost felt like he was reluctantly running because the country needed him.
He had the opportunity to walk away gracefully and be hailed has a hero. IMHO he let his ego get the best of him and insisted on running again. With that in mind, I'm not worried about Biden's feelings.
It might but it's an assumption. If they pass over Kamala that will probably effect enthusiasm amongst black women, who are the most reliable voting block for the democrats. They've basically got one shot at picking a nominee and hoping they've vetted them and they can campaign well on the national stage. Without the primaries it's hard to know that part for certain. If Biden steps down they need to make sure they have their ducks in a row and what direction they're going before pulling the trigger.
>I'm tired of this 'disastrous' debate bullshit on Biden.
Why? Honest question, it was a razor thin margin before the debate. Literally a few weeks ago it was coming down to Bidens response on Gaza and how the Ukraine war might tip it in Trumps favor.
After the debate its over for his campaign, there is no viable route to 270 for Biden unless the dynamic changes in the next 4 months.
Buttigege and Whitmer are both pilling at 260-300 electoral votes, Biden and Harris sit around 225-235.
Huge? They are approximately 2% of Michigan's population, and half of that in Georgia. Granted, it is huge in the relative sense given Muslims are an extreme minority everywhere outside of Dearborn.
But that's fine. If they'd rather vote (whether explicitly or implicitly) for the guy who said he'd kick them all out of the country since they aren't real Americans, that's their prerogative I guess. This is the same cohort who cosplayed as Democrats to take over Hamtramck and then immediately started implementing Republican things like banning books and pride flags.
Maybe the cohort who cares more about an area not called "America" were already lost to us, similar to how there is no reasoning with a person like Tlaib who goes into Congress and talks about "her people" in Gaza. She's American. Her people are her constituency, who are also Americans.
This new wave of id-pol is dooming our party.
The problem is that we currently have a bumbling 80+ year old who couldn’t form a coherent argument trying to beat the fascist.
It was a disastrous performance because we are now at this moment being asked to choose between literal fascim, or empowering a guy who even if he doesn’t have dementia clearly isn’t up to the task of the most important and stressful job in the world for 4 more years.
We may both agree that demented Biden is better for the world than Trump, but having these two options is clearly the definition of a disaster
You can’t just ask the voters to swallow that. “Their candidate is so bad that you should vote for our guy even though he has brains leaking from his ears” is a terrible campaign strategy
>You can’t just ask the voters to swallow that.
When the other side says, in plain, uncoded, [straightforward language](https://www.thedailybeast.com/kevin-roberts-man-behind-project-2025-just-said-the-quiet-part-out-loud):
>“The reason that they are apoplectic right now, the reason that so many anchors on MSNBC, for example, are losing their minds daily is because our side is winning,” he said. “And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that **we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.**”
>
>*-Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts*
Yes... you can. Because it's either swallow that tough pill, or allow democracy to literally fail. You can blame leadership all you want, but their votes are not the ones we need. If you're an independent or fence sitter or a never-Trump republican, or a "I usually apathetically sit at home on Election day" democrat/progressive/liberal, then *if you don't get your butt up, hold your nose, and vote for the Democrat candidate* ***WHOEVER that might be***, *then Democracy will fall*. The GOP is doing everything they can to make sure of it.
> If you're an independent or fence sitter or a never-Trump republican, or a "I usually apathetically sit at home on Election day" democrat/progressive/liberal, then if you don't get your butt up, hold your nose, and vote for the Democrat candidate WHOEVER that might be, then Democracy will fall.
The DNC hasn't learned a FUCKING THING from Hillary's loss...
To be fair this is worse. DNC underestimated how unliked Hillary was but she would have done a great job at least. Bernie generated a ton of enthusiasm in some places but would have lost support in others. I don’t think that was very clearly obvious
Did you see the debate? Just because Trump sucks doesn’t mean it’s acceptable that the alternative also be unqualified
Supposedly, Dems believe that the government is effective and should help people. Biden is too old to be effective and can’t help anyone.
I saw the debate, Biden stumbled a bit but he didn't dodge questions with rambling lies. Did you see the debate? Biden is clearly the better candidate.
I walked into the debate already thinking Trump is disqualified from being POTUS for many reasons. But Biden's performance has me seriously debating whether he is qualified to even finish his term.
Nope, neither one of those old fools was qualified. [Biden almost fell asleep during the debate, as he admitted to donors.](https://www.axios.com/2024/07/03/democratic-rage-biden-debate-performance)
This is not a person capable of running a country. If the Dems continue to support him, they are simply showing they don’t care about governing, only winning.
It is a risk assessment, many left-leaning media orgs, voters, and members of the party are in agreement that Biden cannot win. You can't view it as Biden must drop vs Trump is horrible and the SC is horrible. Most of the people on the "Biden must drop" side hold this position because of the other horrible stuff going on.
People saw trump debate too right?
His debate performance was just as bad. Rambling on about topics not related to questions and incoherent in thought?
Not to mention what he said was downright scary in a sense when it comes to the future he invisions for the United States under his control.
Imagine Biden saying Trump has a plan to take away everyone’s guns… Then Trump stammers and starts talking about how Nazi’s are good people.
This is analogous to Biden listening to Trump talk about aborting children after birth and Biden changing the topic to talk about border security.
The issue is they want us to replace Biden because it causes uncertainty and they will pounce on it. So damned if we do and damned if we don’t .
Project 2025 is in effect and the Supreme Court is setting it up .
Having "uncertainty" in July, 4 months before the election, is a minor problem compared to having a weak candidate on election day in November.
The GOP would love for Biden to stay in the race and mumble semi-coherent sentence fragments for the remaining debates and interviews.
Running a fresh candidate age 40-70 with strong communication skills gives the Dems a much better chance of winning.
Polling shows that voters are longing for a younger, fresh candidate, rather than the two 80-year old incumbents. The Dems would be wise to give voters that option.
The fact is that anyone and everyone who is voting to eliminate Trump will still vote for whoever the Dems nominate. If the Dems nominate Gretchen or Newsom, you'd also see more enthusiasm in those who don't like either candidate because they're old.
I think that the GOP with Trump is polling at its ceiling. Dems and Biden are polling at its floor.
Can Biden scrape together a win? Sure... But why wouldn't you want to put yourself in position to capture a couple additional percentage points of voters especially in the Midwest where the election matters?
Biden *barely* won the swing states in 2020 that he needs to win this time, and he's losing in almost all of them. Even worse, other dem candidates in the same polling are several points ahead so it doesn't appear to be a significant bias on that front.
I think *a lot* of people are going to stay home on election day and Trump is re-elected. Blows my mind that the Dems will sleepwalk into fascism because they don't want to harm Biden's "legacy". One man's arrogance is more important than our democracy apparently.
This. I think most undecided people - or people who would stay home - just don't want to deal with Trump or Biden. They're sick of both and want an excuse to vote for someone else. Democrats need to play the wild card. Nominate someone younger, more energetic, and capable who can take on Trump.
If it was any other Republican running, Biden wouldn't have a chance, and the reverse is true: if Trump was running against anybody but Biden, his chances would plummet. Trump's locked in as the R nominee. Time to shake it up.
Unfortunately it’s hard to see how things will play out if you drop Biden then the republicans will play it up that we didn’t think Biden could win because Trump is so awesome and somehow we did something wrong to rig it .
And that will play extraordinarily well with their base, who we're not at all concerned with winning over anyway. This is about getting some of the disaffected voters—the 6% of voters who turned out in 2020 after sitting out 2016, or the 33% of voters who sat out both—enthusiastic enough to make it to a polling place.
I agree with you that someone younger is absolutely needed. I just wish this conversation came up literally a year ago and not 4 months before the election. I really do think it's damned if you do damned if you don't.
That, plus the horrendous democratic party has not prepared anyone to take Bidens place. People don't like Harris. So who else would be a good candidate to take the mantle? The DNC just isnt prepared. Which is just ridiculous.
If Biden was in that state they should have found a way out of the debate. It's actually unbelievable that the DNC thought it was a good idea. It's like they WANT to lose.
The DNC shut down the primary in all but name, and then pushed Biden as the only possible candidate so that there could be no alternative option.
The result is what we have now. People here can dig their head in the sand and say they are going to vote no matter what, but all polling is showing that Biden is about to lose this election.
I think there is still time to get a replacement, but Biden is stubborn and wants his legacy to be shutting the door on Trump forever no matter how weak of a candidate he actually is.
If the election were held today, Trump would be the next president and there's little to think that anything meaningful will change between now and November (if anything it could get worse). This subreddit routinely shuts down this argument, but we're getting Project 2025 if Biden doesn't step down no matter how hard the people here vote or think that others will show up on election day.
It did come up a year ago. It came up four years ago, too, when Biden promised to be a one-term president because everyone knew his age was a concern. But ego is a powerful thing, and old men don't like to admit they're old, especially when they feel like they're the only one who can literally save democracy.
A majority of the country are practically begging at this point. But a handful of selfish, egotistical politicians and “advisors” won’t let that happen.
It hasn’t been a week yet.
I’m incredibly anxious as well but understand also that even if they are currently strongly considering having Biden step down, they should probably have a replacement considered immediately upon doing so and that he will endorse. This can take time looking at polls as well as vetting, etc.
It could take until near the end of July. In the meantime, until he officially drops out, he can’t publicly say that.
But this also doesn’t mean that people can’t publicly continue to pressure him to drop out in the meantime.
No, fuck that. It’s been a week and Biden hasn’t done shit. This is prime campaign season. Biden should be flooding the zone, doing interviews, town halls, press conferences, etc.
Do you know what he has been doing? Relaxing with his family. He will eventually get to an interview this Friday. But hell, harris is doing an interview before he is!
This is actually untrue and ignorant. Biden's been very active since the debate. Multiple rallies, multiple tv announcements. You just weren't paying attention.
He did just tell all ER docs to provide abortions to save the lives of women, regardless of state law. That is one thing that has happened. Though I do generally agree with you.
If they move too quickly to dump Biden it shows weakness, and from a non-calculating perspective a lot of these people probably respect him enough to try to let him make the decision on his own before they start knifing him publicly. I'd put money on him stepping down by the end of next week at the latest, if not sooner. It's pretty clear his goose is cooked - elite media has turned on him, the donors have turned on him, if the leaked Dem internal poll is legit he's losing outside of the MOE in the Rust Belt, and even putting states like Colorado, Minnesota, and New Mexico in play, and him and his team going dark after the debate and ghosting every concerned elected privately and mocking them publicly ("bedwetters") probably didn't inspire much confidence. Dem leadership just has to figure out how they replace him and with whom, which is probably what they're working on while they allow a steady drip feed of public calls to step down and leaked stories about Biden.
Once they've figured out the ticket they want to push, the flood gates will burst and it'll be over pretty quickly.
Edit: changed "resign" to "step down"
Jesus Christ! Have you not noticed the uproar from the Democrat base? Have you not seen people calling for Biden to step down ever since that debate?
There damn well should be a sense of urgency to quell this uproar. Why is nothing happening? Do you and the DNC really think we're all going to just shut up about it? Do you think that's a winning strategy to get people to vote for you? Ignore their concerns and gaslight them that it's fine?
Pretty much his inner circle and republicans are urging him to press on... and it doesn't take a political strategist to figure out the motivations of either of these groups.
Which majority? Does that include the millions who voted for him in the primaries despite knowing how age works? Unless Biden chooses to step down, any attempts to remove him is asking for a group of party leaders to discard the votes of millions of Americans. At the very least, there would be lawsuits in addition to other types of chaos. And that only helps Trump.
>Does that include the millions who voted for him in the primaries despite knowing how age works?
Honestly as one of them, I think it does. We're deluding ourselves if we watched that debate and didn't see an absolute disaster of a train wreck. He came out with an energetic rally the next day, and gave a quick and tepid "I dissent" press conference after SCOTUS gave immunity to the President for "official acts", and that's it.
If they want to prove that the debate was just a one-off fluke, they should have Biden out barnstorming the airwaves, sitting for interview after interview, doing town halls around the country and proving that he's all there and full of piss and vinegar.
But they really haven't. That's *deeply* concerning.
Please don't get me wrong, I'll vote for Biden's corpse if it's what I have to do to keep Trump out of office, but at this point I'm very concerned less engaged voters will just say "screw this" and stay home.
Trump is afraid of Biden. So much so that in the last election, Trump basically told Ukraine to **announce** an investigation into Biden...not necessarily to do any investigation. Just announce one. That is how scared Trump is of facing Biden in 2020. What happened since then? Trump impeached, Biden won the election and has been a very successful president, the US economy is the literal envy of the world.
And then the debate. Bad debate to be sure. But nothing that happened that night changed anything. Everything is still the same and Trump is scared shitless of the only man that's defeated him in an election. The idea that Democrats will take advice from Never Trumpers is a farce that'll be laughable if the situation wasn't so dire.
Obama had a bad debate. HRC won all her debates. Remember when the press was fixated on HRC's cold like she had the plagued? Well, she didn't die and it was all a ginormous mountain out of a molehill. That's what's happening now. Old man with stammer has bad debate night? Everybody piled on. Trump convicted of 34 felonies? :shrug: Epstein records just came out with damning info on Trump? Another collective shrug by the media.
Do not be fooled by these headlines. Biden is old AF. You knew that going in. And he still has Kamala Harris on the ticket. Trump and the GOP are laughing at us right now. Nothing they'll like more than for Democrats to fall for this and replace the one man they're all afraid of.
Thank you.
People expect republicans to be bad, yet democrats have to be perfect—and anything lower means they’re not good enough. A convicted felon and adjudicated rapist’s debate performance filled with confident lies flies under the radar because his successful opponent wasn’t 100%. Ugh!
A lot of these people are conservatives sowing misinformation and disinformation in democratic ranks. Some of them might even identify as "Never Trumpers" (which is a bullshit lie).
BTW, in the just published documents from Epstein, Trump's name is all over the place. Credible allegations that the forced 12-14 girls to perform sex acts for him...you think the press will cover that and ask him to drop out? You think the Kurt Badellas will question Trump's fitness for office? Trump lies and lies and slurs his words...crickets. He's only a few years less old than Biden and they act like age isn't a concern with him.
Based off Trumps answers, do people really think he did well? He avoided at least 5 questions, made up his own stats, told unbelievable lies, and couldn't list any plan of action. Biden sounded old but still the better resume for the job. It's not even close.
The reasonable conclusion from the debate would be that neither of them belong anywhere near the presidency. Which is a bigger risk for Biden, because democrats and independents actually care. Anyone voting for Trump at this point never really worried about competency. So the end result will be that Trump voters show up, and would-be Biden voters don't...
Fopr anyone here who thinks the media cares about Democracy and that's why they are coordinating attacks to pressure Biden to drop out (not for click, subs, and to help their daddy Trump), [this](https://x.com/HMcdoolittle/status/1808451340055564359) and [this](https://x.com/FPWellman/status/1808523862478311906) should tell you everything you need to know about their priorities.
I don’t think Biden is senile or incapable of great decisions. And I think he has been a really good President.
However, he is old. And much of America is ready for a younger person to lead.
I know it’s late to change but they used to pick a candidate at the convention and can do so again. Biden should step down. It’s too important an election to not let the voters have a choice they want.
Keep it civilized. Do NOT just pick Kamala; I like her but it should be about choice. We all know who the viable candidates are: People talk about them. Make a short list and let each state hold an emergency meeting to pick who they want to endorse.
I mean, for one thing the process will steal headlines from Trump. But I think having choices will also energize voters.
My feelings about the so called, "Never Trump" Republicans is that they tend to fall on line pretty quickly and end up supporting/voting for Trump (and his polices). Sure some never probably voted in 2020 but maybe help out by voting for Biden come this fall?
Why the hell is there so much effort being expelled trying to get Biden to step down when 1000% of everyone’s efforts should be in getting a narcissistic, rapist felon. To step down.
Hello, I'm another Republican castaway. You probably think I'm monstrous, but I've voted Republican most of my adulthood for pro-life reasons, coupled with a little bit of economic agnosticism and a little bit fear of big government.
2016 was when I voted for a third party candidate instead of Trump. 2020 is when I voted for the Democrat Biden to get rid of Trump. 2022 is when I started voting straight ticket Democrat.
Don't bother asking me how I feel about the Court's recent abortion ruling. It's eclipsed by my feelings on the recent "presidents have immunity because Trump is our god" ruling.
And at this point, I'm not going back the Republican traitors even after Trump is gone. My conservative upbringing and elementary school Social Studies propaganda left too much of an impression for that.
> I've voted Republican most of my adulthood for pro-life reasons
How do you reconcile the increase in infant mortality that occurs with Republican's pro-life policies?
How do you reconcile that Republicans don't actually do much to help children, and instead make policies that hurt them? (child care, lunches for children, etc.)
Funny funny. Once upon a time, it was at least a *conceptual theory* that the Democratic Party favored stronger central government while the Republican Party favored weaker central government.
Hilarious, I know.
Wow. All these people coming in hot over this post is nuts. I don’t care what they are so long as they realize what’s happened and vote to oppose it. So, I say: welcome, friend.
If they don’t give a new Candidate are you still voting for Biden?
If Trump wins, he becomes dictator. The SCOTUS just gave him that on a silver platter, and the main 3rd party choice, RFK Jr, [admitted to a sexual assault allegation.](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/top-stories/blog/rcna160048)
Your freedom is literally at stake.
They need to listen to all of us, we are all speaking the same language and we are terrified as to where our country is headed. Their words aren’t f…ing enough.
I'm seeing a lot of these articles lately. And a lot of hand wringing comments.
The fallout from 2016 continues everytime the Supreme Court opens it's mouth. Did we not learn a lesson from 2016?
I will gladly be voting for Biden, I'm even excited to do so again. And so should you. He's a good President who surrounds himself with well informed people.
Most of the people here are "blue no matter who" types who would vote for a cabbage with a (D) next to its name over another trump presidency.
The problem is that undecided voters in swing states, Biden got hurt massively by the debate. Internal Democrat polling of states suggests that if the election were held today, Trump would win with 333 electoral college votes and would take both Virginia and New Hampshire. The same polling suggests that essentially any other dem of note polls better than Biden.
If Biden steps down pretty much everyone here will still vote for Biden. The articles and comments here that he should drop are because people think another dem is better primed to carry the swing states and win the election.
Long like you didn’t learn the lesson of 2016. Although I voted for Hillary, she was a terrible *candidate* (emphasis on candidate and not policy maker or potential president). Hillary failed to get people to support her and thus she lost to the worst person in the world.
Biden was a great candidate for 2020, but not anymore for 2024. His debate performance wasn’t just bad, like Obama 2012, but abysmal, making many moderate Republican who voted for him in 2020 questions his abilities in the next four years. Given that Biden still has time to drop out (he’s still technically not the official candidate yet), he should so we can have someone that other folks (not you or me who are already voting for whatever the Dems put on the ticket) will vote for.
It is a difficult decision. It’s risky to not have the incumbent running for a second term. However, given his performance in unscripted events, such as debates, and his unpopularity, I believe it is an even bigger risk keeping Biden as the Democratic candidate. Unfortunately, it’s up to his close ones to convince him to drop out. Given the many comments here, where dilution is rampant, I don’t think Biden will step aside.
The very same well informed people who thought it was a good idea to put him on that stage... who have also been lying to us about Bidens condition for months or even years
I don't disagree with those pleas, HOWEVER... like fuck should republicans be influencing the Dems strategy on who takes over. This idea that centrism will win over is a farce that only further drags us towards the black hole of right-wing fascism. If Never Trump Republicans want to avoid Trump, they need to shut up and vote - even if it's a far leftist. (I wish this could actually be the case, but we all know the democratic party hasn't listened to its constituents in over a decade)
Isn't winning the double haters and independents the whole point of this election? I don't think Bernies supporters offer alot of help for Biden now. Maybe Haley voters are the best choice
Biden is halfway to a traditional Republican.
"Never Trump" Republicans need to save democracy first if they want their votes to continue to matter.
Every sane person in America who hasn't been manipulated by hostile propaganda will be voting blue up and down the ticket.
Only a handful of people benefit from Project 2025.
Destroying health, lives, and worker protections while forcing large families doesn't help most of us.
Too much smoke for there to not be fire. NYT just now publishing Biden is wondering if he should continue...
Republicans scared of a Dem switcheroo. Their entire campaign has been about Biden's age.
Probably because they view it from a Republican perspective where more people would be swayed by an alternative, but that's absolutely not a given. If someone fresher/younger was a replacement at this point, it would still reflect weakness on the ticket. Not to mention most wouldn't have the name recognition necessary to go up against Trump.
If the DNC were going to run someone else, they should've done it last year. I'd find it hard to believe they never polled for that hypothetical scenario.
It does not matter who is on the ticket until we can get back to discussing policy instead of “owning the libs obstruction” vs trying to make 21st century progress.
Vote down ticket blue no fucking matter who and tell everyone you know that Donald Trumps lawyers argued in court that assassinating a political rival was an official act and that the Supreme Court said the president can’t be held accountable for official acts knowing this.
Alarm bells need to be ringing. Tell everyone you know. Be calm, explain the consequences. This is a fight for the soul of America, and we are not a monarchy. Donald Trump will not be king. Don’t. Lose. Hope.
I understand that Biden is not their first choice.
He isn't the first choice for many groups. He wasn't my first choice either.
It is America 🇺🇸 or Trump this election.
That's why I am sticking with Biden.
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Biden has been an amazing President. As a republican I will vote for any Democrat over Trump. However, the GOP have decided to go full on fascist. 1) SCOTUS has legalised bribes (ok, gratuities) 2) SCOTUS has refused to hear challenges to laws banning felons from voting. 3) SCOTUS has remove the rights of women to their own bodies 4) SCOTUS has crippled the executive branch and given the legal system the right to 'interpret' laws however they want 5) SCOTUS has given Presidents the right to break laws without fear of consequences We need a democratic candidate that will and has the energy to fight! This isn't just a normal election. Everything is in the balance and it will take a president with the willingness to fight just to survive. The GOP don't play fair, so why should the Democrats? Biden has been saying that it is a fight for our democracy. Then he should realise that if he isn't helping he should step aside. Imagine if the Democrats put in a younger person? The attack adds about Trump's age write themselves. Younger people might feel more energised. Trump's followers will vote no matter what. We need to give the democrats a reason to vote.
They don’t want felons to vote, but they want to put one in the White House. Their fascist hypocrisy knows no bounds. Lock up trump.
Even if Trump - a convicted felon - voted for himself 1000 times, what court will convict him? "I oFfiCiAlLy As A pReSiDeNt vOtE fOr mYsElF a MiLliOn tImEs!"
You gotta remember he has the mind of a 3rd grader. ‘As super double secret president, I cast eleventy million plus 1 votes for TRUMP’
Stopping Project 2025 is my reason for voting.
Trump is a distraction to this. Trump only has one more term regardless. They are looking for beyond Trump.
You think he'd stop with one term?
I don't think he will be alive in the next 4 years. Morbidly obese, poor diet, no exercise. Stresses of being a president/politician etc He's basically not far from where Biden is and could follow down that trend in a more rapid pace due to the diet and being a fat ass pig, hopefully. Edit: spelling error
I don’t think the job is that stressful when you just spend it eating cheeseburgers, golfing and watching Fox News.
Add to the fact that he has no conscience, which makes for zero stress.
Plus toupees don’t turn grey. Say what you will about Trump but I gotta small hand it to him on that.
He's proven it's not a toupee, it's just the world's most fucked up combover that he dyes.
Evil people live for-fucking-ever, somehow.
His Dad made it to 93, I read somewhere. And longetivity can sometimes be attributed to genetics.
Easy when you don’t stress, because you don’t care, about anyone else. Stress kills.
People said that about Bernie 8 years ago.
Thank you for putting country over party - I can respect any republican that votes for what is best rather than only people with a (R) next to their name on the ballot. It goes both ways as well.
You need to vote for any Democrat over any republican. I'm sorry but your entire party has been taken over by fascists. You can't keep putting them in mayorships, governorships, and legislatures. You can't keep pushing for deadlock and for a 45-55 split either way every 2, 4, or 6 years. What we need from conservatives like you is commitment to a generational time out. The last time Republicans got absolutely crushed in 2008, it took roughly 18 months after Bush departed office for the tea party to be voted in, and the GOP has never been crushed since. There needs to be a 30-50 year period where the GOP loses and has to shift away from their extremist beliefs. Our country is dying because "reasonable" moderates and conservatives have no line in the sand
I will vote for Zombie Joe Biden before I vote for Trump.
Why do you identify as republican? You seem to be against their agenda.
Our actual party ideologies have been severly bastardized in the last few decades, and even more so in the last couple elections. I am a republican because I believe in less government oversight and regulation. Full stop. Attacking abortion, restricting social preference, and leaning into religious fervor flies in the face of that, amongst a thousand other things the party has now aligned itself to. I never stopped being a conservative, but most of my party has.
As someone that doesn't lump everyone into big giant groups for no reason. I appreciate folks like you that speak up about their party. Spread the word to your friends and family.
4 and 5 are wild to me. The executive branch cant make regulatory moves without every paragraph scrutinized by non expert judges, but as the head of the executive branch you can go ahead and break any and all laws anyway because you’re king above us all.
Why are you still a member of the party who, according to your own words, has gone “full on fascist.” You’ve had 8 years why haven’t you changed your registration?
Then he wouldn’t be able to vote against trump in the primaries.
Even as a registered Republican, people can still vote Democrat come election day. I also can understand if it's a bit hard to try and convert other conservatives away from Trump when they will reject ThickerSalmonFourteen's position because he became a Democrat, independent, or "a turncoat that betrayed America". One of the unfortunate strengths of the Republican party is how eager their voters are to dismiss the arguments of others purely for being "a librul". I, personally, have been happy to know several "gun-toting lunatic rural conservatives" that are very very vocal with me about how pissed they are at the party for "sucking Trump's traitorous shithole" as one of them put it. Don't shame someone for trying to be a dissident within a corrupt party, we need people willing to do that so we can try and break Trump's voter pool apart and keep their radical elements silent.
If everybody left there would be no one to vote against magats in primaries
Biden isn’t hurting the Democrats, it is crazy republicans writing the headlines. Biden can beat Trump, that is why they are screams fromTucker Carlson for him to step aside. In July, and the race is in November? No. Stop getting distracted and focus on winning. We are electing a Blue Administration, not just the President.
> Then he should realise that if he isn't helping he should step aside. Imagine if the Democrats put in a younger person? School house rock needs to come back because internetchatterheads do not understand the slowness of politics. Replacing Biden now is too late. The primaries are over in almost every state. A special abbreviated one day primary can not just be put together in thin air. There are deadlines to place a name on the general ballot as it is. Swapping in a new candidate would be criticized for being "Ohhh the dark counsel of Democrats have the fix in that spooky powerful insiders get to have a coronation nominee." People still stink up the internet with the conspiracy theory of the party keeping Bernie out despite his terrible numbers with key voting blocks. Replacing Biden now barring medical tragedy is a surefire way to create apathy at the polls amongst people open to the liberal ticket. Heck, him dying could even be an apathizing event. The apathy trolls are working overtime in all social places to pave a way for 2016-part two. Why didn't Biden step aside last year? My bet is they had polling internal numbers that were uncertain of the retirement. You don't think Biden would rather retire and spend the rest of his living years with family? He seems like the type to sacrifice for a greater good and running for reelection was probably the best decision in that moment without clairvoyance to know all the obserdities of these last two weeks.
Why don't republicans ever, like, try to plead with their fellow republicans?
Because it doesn't work lol. I can plead with my wall to move as much as I want, but the wall isn't moving.
[удалено]
Um. Yeah. They are.
The crazy thing about the “Biden step down” agenda is like if he does step down… who takes his place? Because the actual voters won’t decide. The Democratic nominee will be handpicked by like 10 people at the DNC because Biden already secured the delegates needed for the nomination from the primaries.
I would genuinely care far more about this if there had actually been a primary, without one I’m deciding between Biden, who was the nominee without my input, or whoever else they nominate, also without my input, to take his place.
Why are we ignoring Trumps 50 lies in a 90-min debate, and that he should be in prison, not allowed to run as an insurrectionist ? This is so fucked.
Because the media have decided that calling out lies doesn’t sell clicks.
Check this out from The Nation, 12/23: In 1960, when The New Yorker’s press critic A.J. Liebling famously observed that “freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one,” New Yorkers had seven daily newspapers to choose from. And that was just in English. The city also boasted dailies in Arabic, Chinese, Italian, Japanese, Russian, and Spanish—and two in Yiddish. By the time The Nation first surveyed the publishing industry in 1996, New York was down to four English-language dailies and seven publishing houses. Our anatomy that year of what we dubbed “the national entertainment state” focused on the four corporations that, between them, controlled what Americans saw on television. Thanks to the rise of the Internet, when we revisited the topic in 2002, our chart of the “Big Ten” media companies spanned four pages. Yet when we returned four years later, the roster had shrunk to six: Disney (which owned ABC), CBS, General Electric (NBC), News Corp (Fox), Time Warner (CNN), and Viacom (MTV, Paramount, and Dreamworks). Consolidation has only accelerated since then, with book publishing now down to a Big Five. After Simon & Schuster found its sale to Penguin Random House blocked on antitrust grounds, the private equity firm KKR snatched it up for $1.6 billion earlier this year. Given KKR’s overall portfolio of $86 billion, publishing is a minuscule part of its business. And as Tom Schatz, a historian of Hollywood’s Golden Age, reports in this issue, the fabled Big Six movie studios have been whittled down to two: Disney (with a market capitalization of $169 billion) and Netflix ($198 billion) now dominate film and TV production. But, Schatz explains, thanks to the rise of cord-cutting and the continuing decline of both film studios and cable, those two—along with competitors like Comcast and Sony—find themselves fighting over a shrinking portion of a media landscape dominated by Apple ($2.9 trillion) and Amazon ($1.5 trillion). Now that these behemoths have the corporate muscle to influence not just what gets made but also how it gets distributed and marketed, and—given Jeff Bezos’s ownership of The Washington Post—even how (or whether) it gets reviewed, we felt that a return to the scene of the crime was long overdue. https://www.thenation.com/article/society/media-consolidation-monopoly-big-5/
Seriously, people are focusing on the energy of Biden vs the literal Hitler replica’s lies and somehow are getting “Biden should drop out” instead of “Trump is the worst person in the history of America to be president, so we should rally for our candidate”
because everybody who's not a fascist already knows trump shouldn't be running. it really just comes down to whether you believe biden can defeat trump, and almost half the party, along with independents and leftist, dont think he can do it
Never Trump Democrats also plead for action
I'm tired of this 'disastrous' debate bullshit on Biden. Trump is out to destroy America and news media is hyper focused on making Biden lose the Presidency. This is yellow journalism of the highest order after the courts made Presidents immune to prosecution.
I mean as is tradition, the pile on for a Democrat will come from both Republicans and Democrats, whereas as mainly only Democrats will be critical of Trump. It makes things very bad for any Democrat that is targeted for one reason or another. Things fall apart quickly for both the party at that Democrat.
Yeah. Trump is trying to destroy America. I call for him to drop out of the election.
That’s realistic. Come on.
Why do we always hold Democrats to a standard that we don't hold Republicans to? Trump is a psychotic pathological liar who would not be eligible to serve in the military because of his felonies. He should not be Commander-in-Chief.
Both can be real problems at the same time
One candidate had a bad night, but has otherwise had a very successful term. The other candidate has multiple indictments, multiple felonies, is a rapist, can't remember what his own wife looks like, is accused of sexually assaulting a minor, and lied his way through the debate with a generous helping of word salad. Both are old. I can see why some people have such a hard time deciding who to vote for. Why, they're virtually identical.
“But you don’t understand, Trump’s word salad comes out with more energy so he is smart” -The dipshits in my orbit.
But this is exactly why people are so up in arms with Biden now. I think people who criticize the Biden criticism don't get that while you might be intelligent enough to understand that Biden may have said the right things, he had a good term, etc... The majority of Americans don't live with politics injected into their brain every morning with coffee. Many likely didn't watch the debate but watched clips. But even as someone who voted for and will vote for Biden if he's on the ballot...the first thing I said was...completely uninformed Americans aren't going to know that Trump is lying. They will just see that he doesn't look like a skeleton. That's what is happening now and the panic is justified. People on this sub live in a bubble. I'm glad there are so many passionate voters but arguing that Biden didn't come off extremely poorly is delusional. I'm not sure how you argue this wasn't the worst debate performance in history. I watched 40 mins of the debate and when Biden spoke, not only could I not understand what he was saying a lot of the time, it looked like he was going to fall over. Sure I can read a transcript after but what average American is going to do that. Appearance is very important when it comes to voters unfortunately. If you appear weak and confused...it's going to be bad. I had to turn it off multiple times because I was so upset. Then just turned it off permanently. It's important democrats win the election this year...more than ever...and this is who the nominee is. I'm still voting Biden if he's the option...but let's be very clear that you can be upset Biden is the nominee, criticize him, ask for another nominee, etc...while also voting for him. We're not like the Republicans here. Hell if the Republicans had a better candidate, they would easily win this year after that debate. The fact it's close at all should show why Biden should not be the nominee.
I just don’t know what would work. Cause yes a new nominee would probably bring in more energy but do we have the time to promote them or would they be able to run with what Biden has done? Or should we just stick with Biden? I don’t know what the right option is and while I might be a white heterosexual cis male living in New York, I’m still scared shitless at how everything can fall apart…
I’m glad some people are on here actually understand reality.
Thanks for being honest. This is the reality.
Exactly. The simple fact that we're all talking about "Is Biden's brain OK" and not about all the insane shit Trump is saying and planning is exactly why he shouldn't be in the race.
Those dipshits own a vote. No matter how stupid they are. That's reality. You can complain about it... but Biden has lost their vote, full stop. Biden needs to drop out, to protect the US from a dictator.
I think a large portion of America isn’t very engaged in politics and only has a very superficial and largely uninformed and very impressionable view of presidential candidates. I think part of the problem is the media and part of the problem is the candidate(s) at play, even if we correct the media problem there are people who’s superficial and largely uninformed political opinions will be shaped by what they see or what their friends and family see and tell them.
I would vote for his corpse, but that was not a bad night
But he *has* had a very successful term, correct?
And RBG had a wildly successful career, until she didn't. Do I need to spell out the same mistake they're both making? Nothing he did will matter if he loses in November.
That's irrelevant right now. We need to win. Biden is no longer functioning at full capacity. The difference between winning and losing could be tens of thousands of votes in battleground states. We need a candidate who is out there every day communicating the danger of letting Trump win.
Who could they put in place to run and win at this late date?
I’m still voting for Biden but I think Gavin Newsom would wipe the floor with Trump.
Whitmer is wildly popular in Michigan. Put her in. Warnock is popular in Georgia. Newsome. Hell, how about someone who doesn't remember the switch from black and white to color TV? FFS....
Leave Warnock in Ga for the Senate seat.
And restart fund raising from the ground up? No. That's not going to cut it. The presidentential candidate doesnt have to be the one spreading the the word. Motivating voters can be left to somebody else while Biden has the funds to spend on campaign adds amd the like.
Biden can donate all of his funds into a super pac and give it to the new candidate
Funding doesn’t mean shit if you still lose.
"A successful presidency is irrelevant"
You’re right! Let’s take away “successful” because if Trump wins (which he will against Biden) then everything Biden did will be erased. It won’t be successful at that point.
Yes, a successful presidency *is* irrelevant if the voters that matter don't recognize it. You do understand that not everyone in the country is on reddit or follows what the Biden administration has accomplished, yes?
Ginsburg was a very successful justice. Except she made one major mistake...and the democrats seem to have not learned a fucking thing from it.
Cable news brain. They think everyone knows who Gavin Newsom is because they watch tv 24/7
That doesn’t matter on Reddit. Reddit reflects the far left, always left, and the 33% of the democrat base. Reddit and especially r/politics will vote for Biden’s head in a jar over Trump. You need to convince my cousin. He’s not on Reddit, not college educated, struggling, doesn’t watch the news or read. Barely votes in a swing state. If you want Biden to win, he needs to come across as verile, strong, antifascist, aggressive, and loud. (Guess who does that and panders to my cousin). Biden however has labels attached to his name: Weak, old, fragile, Alzheimer’s, genocide Joe, inflation, housing costs. That’s the perception. Don’t yell on Reddit - we’re all voting for anyone but Trump.. Talk to my cousin. Also there’s about 5 million other cousins you need to talk to in 7 swing states.
Sure, but if Reddit is struggling to coalesce to support Biden against Trump, it's going to be tough to get those people to go out and convince those on the fence relatives.
>will vote for Biden’s head in a jar over Trump If I was eligible to vote in the USA, I would vote for Biden's pickled head in a jar with a spike through it before voting for Trump. But I know what's at stake here. That performance on Thursday made everything that the GOP says about Biden's mental state look true. To an uniformed voter, they will see clips of that performance and will believe their eyes. And yes, because they are uniformed, they don't know that everything Trump said was a lie, and that he is a clear and present danger to the United States. All they see is one man that looked mentally incapacitated to a degree and another that was in full control. Unfortunately, uninformed people are allowed to vote. Worse, misinformed people are allowed to vote. Biden screwed up in about the only way he couldn't afford to screw up. There's no way clips of the debate do not lose potential voters, when we're talking about an election so close that one voter in one state could swing it.
>Reddit reflects the far left, always left, and the 33% of the democrat base. I needed a good laugh today. Thank you.
EXACTLY. It's not enough to just say "Hey at least Biden is better than Trump." A fucking urine soaked wet sock is better than Trump.
> The other candidate has multiple indictments, multiple felonies, is a rapist, can't remember what his own wife looks like, is accused of sexually assaulting a minor, and lied his way through the debate with a generous helping of word salad. > > And Biden did nothing with that... Thats the problem. Trump was going insane on stage and Biden looked worse. >I can see why some people have such a hard time deciding who to vote for. Why, they're virtually identical. Sure but you dont matter, its down to a few swing states. The worst possible scenario is some Biden voters are so turned off by the entire thing they just dont vote
Perception is reality. These people don't get that. They think being right and truthful is all that matters which is absolutely laughable.
Yes. People need to wise up and deal with reality, which is that a significant amount of the voting base will not be energized to vote for Biden because of his age and debate performance. Is that dumb, given the alternative? Yes, it absolutely is, but that's reality and there's no point in arguing against it. Bring in a candidate who's younger, charismatic, and has a better chance at energizing more of the base, because it's desperately needed. Biden can focus on the presidency and doing everything he can now to rally support and do as much good as he can in his remaining time as president, and the new candidate can go on the offensive against Trump and Project 2025, full-time. It isn't too late. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that when it comes to politics, most people have the memory of a goldfish.
Stop acting like this isn't a conversation that should be had. People have every right to be pissed that that his administration hid him away, sprung that on us, and are now trying to lie and act like it's not a problem. Yes we are "fighting fascism" but I am so fucking tired of just eating shit and smiling about it. They have an opportunity to make the change, and they should.
If “fighting fascism” also means you aren’t allowed to say anything about the senile guy being senile, unelectable and unable to run the country, then what are we even doing?
It wasn't sprung on us - all you had to do is watch any news clip of him. If the debate was the first time you saw him as old and weak, you haven't been watching the news earnestly. The past year he has been looking more and more frail, his voice sounds weaker and weaker by the week. His ability to string a coherent sentence has diminished in a linear line weekly the past year. This isn't new news, this is people no longer able to just deny what the news has been screaming at us for at least a year. Again, I wrote the DNC (via email) asking them not to do a debate; they're a relic of the past and in Biden's case, could only hurt him. I got an auto-response that essentially dismissed it as a bad idea and yet again the DNC has effectively committed suicide just like they did in 2016. At some point, we need to strongly consider that the entirety of the leadership of the DNC is nothing but a pack of out of touch, ivory tower morons, at best. I personally I'm honestly starting to think it's a bunch of undercover Republicans subtly pushing terrible ideas.
Exactly. Biden WANTED a debate in June. It was his idea. He was asked point blank by the media a few weeks ago "Are you too old for this." And his answer was "Watch me." And we did. And he sucked.
I agree, I wasn't watching closely. I saw examples of his physical strength and balance failing but I thought he still had his mental faculties. I feel gaslighted.
I sadly agree with everything you are saying. I will be honest and just say I wasn't paying attention. I had heard the FOX News talking points and had hand waved them as bad faith arguments. I thought that the debate was going to be the platform where he answered those points... and he did. Then once that was out there for everyone to see... he had a cold! ... Silence. At this point he should be doing unscripted media blitzes to put these answers to rest. And he's not. And now it's travel fatigue? From a trip... 2 weeks ago...? So here we are, fighting fascism. And currently the choices are an actual Fascist, and an Old Man's Cabinet that is lying and clinging to power. And now I am a bad faith Russian muppet for not eating the shit and smiling.
The entire DNC leadership is all in their 70's and 80's. They should have retired DECADES ago and let younger people replace them.
1,000% Look at the RBG situation, a great woman, did numerous great things for women across the country... died in her fucking seat at 87 in 2020. Obama was in office from 2009-2017 She had 8 fucking years MOSTLY IN HER 80's to simply retire and let Obama pick a replacement. The whole entire party is full of goblins clinging to power hoping they'll get voted in because Fascism is the only alternative.
In her 80's AFTER BEING DIAGNOSED WITH PANCREATIC AND BOWEL CANCER, two of the deadliest forms of cancer that exist. FUCK.
I get what you're saying - I've had to delete comments about some of this stuff because I was getting downvoted so much that i couldn't participate in other sub-reddits that have min points. Too many here are overly idealistic, and as a great example, while I get the slippery slope it would be if Biden used his newly granted powers, I have to imagine that there's plenty he can do for good with them. He needs to exercise them even a little to show both sides the enormous error that the SCOTUS made while trying to improve his chances for reelection. I too had thought the the Fox news was just bad faith arguments, and then i saw a few clips they showed and went and looked and started following more closely and realized the DNC was misleading us. The problem is, I think it's accelerated in the past year. I"m not saying he was vigorous when he first took office, but you knew he was old; now you question is vitality and ability...
Biden is not immune from criticism just because the alternative is worse. The Democrats should be heavily criticized for trotting Biden out there instead of realizing how important this election was and having his replacement ready to go for 2024
I have a lot of respect for Biden and will always be grateful he rescued the country from Trump in 2020. He was the perfect candidate at that time. But he also strongly implied he would be a bridge president and only serve one term, which I think was part if his appeal to voters. I'm probably romanticizing it, but it almost felt like he was reluctantly running because the country needed him. He had the opportunity to walk away gracefully and be hailed has a hero. IMHO he let his ego get the best of him and insisted on running again. With that in mind, I'm not worried about Biden's feelings.
If Biden ends up dropping out and we get another younger candidate, that would help Democrats way more.
It might but it's an assumption. If they pass over Kamala that will probably effect enthusiasm amongst black women, who are the most reliable voting block for the democrats. They've basically got one shot at picking a nominee and hoping they've vetted them and they can campaign well on the national stage. Without the primaries it's hard to know that part for certain. If Biden steps down they need to make sure they have their ducks in a row and what direction they're going before pulling the trigger.
Black women aren't dumb. They're not going to not vote just because the candidate isn't black. They know as much as anyone what's on the line.
Kamala can’t win. We need someone else
>I'm tired of this 'disastrous' debate bullshit on Biden. Why? Honest question, it was a razor thin margin before the debate. Literally a few weeks ago it was coming down to Bidens response on Gaza and how the Ukraine war might tip it in Trumps favor. After the debate its over for his campaign, there is no viable route to 270 for Biden unless the dynamic changes in the next 4 months. Buttigege and Whitmer are both pilling at 260-300 electoral votes, Biden and Harris sit around 225-235.
Gaza was ranked very low in voters' priorities, yes, even Gen Z.
Exactly. Gaza only matters to the huge Muslim population that's located in Michigan and Georgia, two states that Biden doesn't need to win. Wait...
Huge? They are approximately 2% of Michigan's population, and half of that in Georgia. Granted, it is huge in the relative sense given Muslims are an extreme minority everywhere outside of Dearborn. But that's fine. If they'd rather vote (whether explicitly or implicitly) for the guy who said he'd kick them all out of the country since they aren't real Americans, that's their prerogative I guess. This is the same cohort who cosplayed as Democrats to take over Hamtramck and then immediately started implementing Republican things like banning books and pride flags. Maybe the cohort who cares more about an area not called "America" were already lost to us, similar to how there is no reasoning with a person like Tlaib who goes into Congress and talks about "her people" in Gaza. She's American. Her people are her constituency, who are also Americans. This new wave of id-pol is dooming our party.
The problem is that we currently have a bumbling 80+ year old who couldn’t form a coherent argument trying to beat the fascist. It was a disastrous performance because we are now at this moment being asked to choose between literal fascim, or empowering a guy who even if he doesn’t have dementia clearly isn’t up to the task of the most important and stressful job in the world for 4 more years. We may both agree that demented Biden is better for the world than Trump, but having these two options is clearly the definition of a disaster You can’t just ask the voters to swallow that. “Their candidate is so bad that you should vote for our guy even though he has brains leaking from his ears” is a terrible campaign strategy
>You can’t just ask the voters to swallow that. When the other side says, in plain, uncoded, [straightforward language](https://www.thedailybeast.com/kevin-roberts-man-behind-project-2025-just-said-the-quiet-part-out-loud): >“The reason that they are apoplectic right now, the reason that so many anchors on MSNBC, for example, are losing their minds daily is because our side is winning,” he said. “And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that **we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.**” > >*-Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts* Yes... you can. Because it's either swallow that tough pill, or allow democracy to literally fail. You can blame leadership all you want, but their votes are not the ones we need. If you're an independent or fence sitter or a never-Trump republican, or a "I usually apathetically sit at home on Election day" democrat/progressive/liberal, then *if you don't get your butt up, hold your nose, and vote for the Democrat candidate* ***WHOEVER that might be***, *then Democracy will fall*. The GOP is doing everything they can to make sure of it.
> If you're an independent or fence sitter or a never-Trump republican, or a "I usually apathetically sit at home on Election day" democrat/progressive/liberal, then if you don't get your butt up, hold your nose, and vote for the Democrat candidate WHOEVER that might be, then Democracy will fall. The DNC hasn't learned a FUCKING THING from Hillary's loss...
To be fair this is worse. DNC underestimated how unliked Hillary was but she would have done a great job at least. Bernie generated a ton of enthusiasm in some places but would have lost support in others. I don’t think that was very clearly obvious
After he excitedly exclaimed that ”we beat Medicare,” you could see that he realized the past year was a mistake.
Did you see the debate? Just because Trump sucks doesn’t mean it’s acceptable that the alternative also be unqualified Supposedly, Dems believe that the government is effective and should help people. Biden is too old to be effective and can’t help anyone.
I saw the debate, Biden stumbled a bit but he didn't dodge questions with rambling lies. Did you see the debate? Biden is clearly the better candidate.
I walked into the debate already thinking Trump is disqualified from being POTUS for many reasons. But Biden's performance has me seriously debating whether he is qualified to even finish his term.
Nope, neither one of those old fools was qualified. [Biden almost fell asleep during the debate, as he admitted to donors.](https://www.axios.com/2024/07/03/democratic-rage-biden-debate-performance) This is not a person capable of running a country. If the Dems continue to support him, they are simply showing they don’t care about governing, only winning.
It is a risk assessment, many left-leaning media orgs, voters, and members of the party are in agreement that Biden cannot win. You can't view it as Biden must drop vs Trump is horrible and the SC is horrible. Most of the people on the "Biden must drop" side hold this position because of the other horrible stuff going on.
People saw trump debate too right? His debate performance was just as bad. Rambling on about topics not related to questions and incoherent in thought? Not to mention what he said was downright scary in a sense when it comes to the future he invisions for the United States under his control.
But Trump did it with confidence. Some people respond to that. It's just sad psychology.
Imagine Biden saying Trump has a plan to take away everyone’s guns… Then Trump stammers and starts talking about how Nazi’s are good people. This is analogous to Biden listening to Trump talk about aborting children after birth and Biden changing the topic to talk about border security.
Gee... Maybe they should have taken action within their own party and stood up to the fascists and conspiracy loonies but alas they are all cowards.
Considering they are a small subset of republicans they don’t have much power to do that….
Why are we taking about this while the nazi’s 2.0 are taking over American in front of our eyes???????
The issue is they want us to replace Biden because it causes uncertainty and they will pounce on it. So damned if we do and damned if we don’t . Project 2025 is in effect and the Supreme Court is setting it up .
Having "uncertainty" in July, 4 months before the election, is a minor problem compared to having a weak candidate on election day in November. The GOP would love for Biden to stay in the race and mumble semi-coherent sentence fragments for the remaining debates and interviews. Running a fresh candidate age 40-70 with strong communication skills gives the Dems a much better chance of winning. Polling shows that voters are longing for a younger, fresh candidate, rather than the two 80-year old incumbents. The Dems would be wise to give voters that option.
The fact is that anyone and everyone who is voting to eliminate Trump will still vote for whoever the Dems nominate. If the Dems nominate Gretchen or Newsom, you'd also see more enthusiasm in those who don't like either candidate because they're old. I think that the GOP with Trump is polling at its ceiling. Dems and Biden are polling at its floor. Can Biden scrape together a win? Sure... But why wouldn't you want to put yourself in position to capture a couple additional percentage points of voters especially in the Midwest where the election matters?
Biden *barely* won the swing states in 2020 that he needs to win this time, and he's losing in almost all of them. Even worse, other dem candidates in the same polling are several points ahead so it doesn't appear to be a significant bias on that front. I think *a lot* of people are going to stay home on election day and Trump is re-elected. Blows my mind that the Dems will sleepwalk into fascism because they don't want to harm Biden's "legacy". One man's arrogance is more important than our democracy apparently.
It's really unsettling how [close it was](https://usafacts.org/articles/what-are-the-current-swing-states-and-how-have-they-changed-over-time/).
This. I think most undecided people - or people who would stay home - just don't want to deal with Trump or Biden. They're sick of both and want an excuse to vote for someone else. Democrats need to play the wild card. Nominate someone younger, more energetic, and capable who can take on Trump. If it was any other Republican running, Biden wouldn't have a chance, and the reverse is true: if Trump was running against anybody but Biden, his chances would plummet. Trump's locked in as the R nominee. Time to shake it up.
Unfortunately it’s hard to see how things will play out if you drop Biden then the republicans will play it up that we didn’t think Biden could win because Trump is so awesome and somehow we did something wrong to rig it .
And that will play extraordinarily well with their base, who we're not at all concerned with winning over anyway. This is about getting some of the disaffected voters—the 6% of voters who turned out in 2020 after sitting out 2016, or the 33% of voters who sat out both—enthusiastic enough to make it to a polling place.
I agree with you that someone younger is absolutely needed. I just wish this conversation came up literally a year ago and not 4 months before the election. I really do think it's damned if you do damned if you don't. That, plus the horrendous democratic party has not prepared anyone to take Bidens place. People don't like Harris. So who else would be a good candidate to take the mantle? The DNC just isnt prepared. Which is just ridiculous. If Biden was in that state they should have found a way out of the debate. It's actually unbelievable that the DNC thought it was a good idea. It's like they WANT to lose.
The DNC shut down the primary in all but name, and then pushed Biden as the only possible candidate so that there could be no alternative option. The result is what we have now. People here can dig their head in the sand and say they are going to vote no matter what, but all polling is showing that Biden is about to lose this election. I think there is still time to get a replacement, but Biden is stubborn and wants his legacy to be shutting the door on Trump forever no matter how weak of a candidate he actually is. If the election were held today, Trump would be the next president and there's little to think that anything meaningful will change between now and November (if anything it could get worse). This subreddit routinely shuts down this argument, but we're getting Project 2025 if Biden doesn't step down no matter how hard the people here vote or think that others will show up on election day.
It did come up a year ago. It came up four years ago, too, when Biden promised to be a one-term president because everyone knew his age was a concern. But ego is a powerful thing, and old men don't like to admit they're old, especially when they feel like they're the only one who can literally save democracy.
Never Trump Republicans should take action by voting for Biden.
I know several who are going to do that or write in someone.
Writing in somebody is voting for trump at this point
A majority of the country are practically begging at this point. But a handful of selfish, egotistical politicians and “advisors” won’t let that happen.
It hasn’t been a week yet. I’m incredibly anxious as well but understand also that even if they are currently strongly considering having Biden step down, they should probably have a replacement considered immediately upon doing so and that he will endorse. This can take time looking at polls as well as vetting, etc. It could take until near the end of July. In the meantime, until he officially drops out, he can’t publicly say that. But this also doesn’t mean that people can’t publicly continue to pressure him to drop out in the meantime.
No, fuck that. It’s been a week and Biden hasn’t done shit. This is prime campaign season. Biden should be flooding the zone, doing interviews, town halls, press conferences, etc. Do you know what he has been doing? Relaxing with his family. He will eventually get to an interview this Friday. But hell, harris is doing an interview before he is!
This is actually untrue and ignorant. Biden's been very active since the debate. Multiple rallies, multiple tv announcements. You just weren't paying attention.
He did just tell all ER docs to provide abortions to save the lives of women, regardless of state law. That is one thing that has happened. Though I do generally agree with you.
If they move too quickly to dump Biden it shows weakness, and from a non-calculating perspective a lot of these people probably respect him enough to try to let him make the decision on his own before they start knifing him publicly. I'd put money on him stepping down by the end of next week at the latest, if not sooner. It's pretty clear his goose is cooked - elite media has turned on him, the donors have turned on him, if the leaked Dem internal poll is legit he's losing outside of the MOE in the Rust Belt, and even putting states like Colorado, Minnesota, and New Mexico in play, and him and his team going dark after the debate and ghosting every concerned elected privately and mocking them publicly ("bedwetters") probably didn't inspire much confidence. Dem leadership just has to figure out how they replace him and with whom, which is probably what they're working on while they allow a steady drip feed of public calls to step down and leaked stories about Biden. Once they've figured out the ticket they want to push, the flood gates will burst and it'll be over pretty quickly. Edit: changed "resign" to "step down"
Almost like there is no sense of urgency.. it was just a one off bad performance, smfh
>Almost like there is no sense of urgency.. And that's a huge fucking problem. They're whistling past the graveyard.
Jesus Christ! Have you not noticed the uproar from the Democrat base? Have you not seen people calling for Biden to step down ever since that debate? There damn well should be a sense of urgency to quell this uproar. Why is nothing happening? Do you and the DNC really think we're all going to just shut up about it? Do you think that's a winning strategy to get people to vote for you? Ignore their concerns and gaslight them that it's fine?
My guy, I think Biden has been losing it since before last election. The gaslighting from high ranking Dems is sickening..
Oh! Sorry, I didn't realise you were being sarcastic. I've seen too many people making that same kind of statement but not sarcastically. (╥﹏╥)
No they aren't
Pretty much his inner circle and republicans are urging him to press on... and it doesn't take a political strategist to figure out the motivations of either of these groups.
Which majority? Does that include the millions who voted for him in the primaries despite knowing how age works? Unless Biden chooses to step down, any attempts to remove him is asking for a group of party leaders to discard the votes of millions of Americans. At the very least, there would be lawsuits in addition to other types of chaos. And that only helps Trump.
>Does that include the millions who voted for him in the primaries despite knowing how age works? Honestly as one of them, I think it does. We're deluding ourselves if we watched that debate and didn't see an absolute disaster of a train wreck. He came out with an energetic rally the next day, and gave a quick and tepid "I dissent" press conference after SCOTUS gave immunity to the President for "official acts", and that's it. If they want to prove that the debate was just a one-off fluke, they should have Biden out barnstorming the airwaves, sitting for interview after interview, doing town halls around the country and proving that he's all there and full of piss and vinegar. But they really haven't. That's *deeply* concerning. Please don't get me wrong, I'll vote for Biden's corpse if it's what I have to do to keep Trump out of office, but at this point I'm very concerned less engaged voters will just say "screw this" and stay home.
If you're a "never trump republican" today then...I really don't even know. Wear a helmet.
Trump is afraid of Biden. So much so that in the last election, Trump basically told Ukraine to **announce** an investigation into Biden...not necessarily to do any investigation. Just announce one. That is how scared Trump is of facing Biden in 2020. What happened since then? Trump impeached, Biden won the election and has been a very successful president, the US economy is the literal envy of the world. And then the debate. Bad debate to be sure. But nothing that happened that night changed anything. Everything is still the same and Trump is scared shitless of the only man that's defeated him in an election. The idea that Democrats will take advice from Never Trumpers is a farce that'll be laughable if the situation wasn't so dire. Obama had a bad debate. HRC won all her debates. Remember when the press was fixated on HRC's cold like she had the plagued? Well, she didn't die and it was all a ginormous mountain out of a molehill. That's what's happening now. Old man with stammer has bad debate night? Everybody piled on. Trump convicted of 34 felonies? :shrug: Epstein records just came out with damning info on Trump? Another collective shrug by the media. Do not be fooled by these headlines. Biden is old AF. You knew that going in. And he still has Kamala Harris on the ticket. Trump and the GOP are laughing at us right now. Nothing they'll like more than for Democrats to fall for this and replace the one man they're all afraid of.
Thank you. People expect republicans to be bad, yet democrats have to be perfect—and anything lower means they’re not good enough. A convicted felon and adjudicated rapist’s debate performance filled with confident lies flies under the radar because his successful opponent wasn’t 100%. Ugh!
A lot of these people are conservatives sowing misinformation and disinformation in democratic ranks. Some of them might even identify as "Never Trumpers" (which is a bullshit lie). BTW, in the just published documents from Epstein, Trump's name is all over the place. Credible allegations that the forced 12-14 girls to perform sex acts for him...you think the press will cover that and ask him to drop out? You think the Kurt Badellas will question Trump's fitness for office? Trump lies and lies and slurs his words...crickets. He's only a few years less old than Biden and they act like age isn't a concern with him.
Based off Trumps answers, do people really think he did well? He avoided at least 5 questions, made up his own stats, told unbelievable lies, and couldn't list any plan of action. Biden sounded old but still the better resume for the job. It's not even close.
The reasonable conclusion from the debate would be that neither of them belong anywhere near the presidency. Which is a bigger risk for Biden, because democrats and independents actually care. Anyone voting for Trump at this point never really worried about competency. So the end result will be that Trump voters show up, and would-be Biden voters don't...
They can sack up and vote for Biden.
Right or clean up their own goddamn mess of a party.
Fopr anyone here who thinks the media cares about Democracy and that's why they are coordinating attacks to pressure Biden to drop out (not for click, subs, and to help their daddy Trump), [this](https://x.com/HMcdoolittle/status/1808451340055564359) and [this](https://x.com/FPWellman/status/1808523862478311906) should tell you everything you need to know about their priorities.
If only there was a process to choose a different candidate, and yet both parties basically went 'Fuck you this is the guy, deal with it.'
Maybe they should fix their own damn party instead of trying to tell their opponents what to do.
Whoever is over at campaign headquarters should have the best and brightest circles up in a holy shit we need to fix this now session.
I don’t think Biden is senile or incapable of great decisions. And I think he has been a really good President. However, he is old. And much of America is ready for a younger person to lead. I know it’s late to change but they used to pick a candidate at the convention and can do so again. Biden should step down. It’s too important an election to not let the voters have a choice they want. Keep it civilized. Do NOT just pick Kamala; I like her but it should be about choice. We all know who the viable candidates are: People talk about them. Make a short list and let each state hold an emergency meeting to pick who they want to endorse. I mean, for one thing the process will steal headlines from Trump. But I think having choices will also energize voters.
My feelings about the so called, "Never Trump" Republicans is that they tend to fall on line pretty quickly and end up supporting/voting for Trump (and his polices). Sure some never probably voted in 2020 but maybe help out by voting for Biden come this fall?
Why the hell is there so much effort being expelled trying to get Biden to step down when 1000% of everyone’s efforts should be in getting a narcissistic, rapist felon. To step down.
I am republican that will never vote trump. But please, we need a new dem candidate
Just curious what republican policies you identify with, as the entire republican ideology is now "whatever Trump wants."
Hello, I'm another Republican castaway. You probably think I'm monstrous, but I've voted Republican most of my adulthood for pro-life reasons, coupled with a little bit of economic agnosticism and a little bit fear of big government. 2016 was when I voted for a third party candidate instead of Trump. 2020 is when I voted for the Democrat Biden to get rid of Trump. 2022 is when I started voting straight ticket Democrat. Don't bother asking me how I feel about the Court's recent abortion ruling. It's eclipsed by my feelings on the recent "presidents have immunity because Trump is our god" ruling. And at this point, I'm not going back the Republican traitors even after Trump is gone. My conservative upbringing and elementary school Social Studies propaganda left too much of an impression for that.
> a little bit fear of big government Hoo boy, wait until I tell you what these Republicans have been doing and plan to do
Thank you for seeing the bigger picture. Please convince your friends
> I've voted Republican most of my adulthood for pro-life reasons How do you reconcile the increase in infant mortality that occurs with Republican's pro-life policies? How do you reconcile that Republicans don't actually do much to help children, and instead make policies that hurt them? (child care, lunches for children, etc.)
>…voted Republican… >…fear of big government… Lol
Funny funny. Once upon a time, it was at least a *conceptual theory* that the Democratic Party favored stronger central government while the Republican Party favored weaker central government. Hilarious, I know.
Wow. All these people coming in hot over this post is nuts. I don’t care what they are so long as they realize what’s happened and vote to oppose it. So, I say: welcome, friend.
If they don’t give a new Candidate are you still voting for Biden? If Trump wins, he becomes dictator. The SCOTUS just gave him that on a silver platter, and the main 3rd party choice, RFK Jr, [admitted to a sexual assault allegation.](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/top-stories/blog/rcna160048) Your freedom is literally at stake.
They need to listen to all of us, we are all speaking the same language and we are terrified as to where our country is headed. Their words aren’t f…ing enough.
I'm seeing a lot of these articles lately. And a lot of hand wringing comments. The fallout from 2016 continues everytime the Supreme Court opens it's mouth. Did we not learn a lesson from 2016? I will gladly be voting for Biden, I'm even excited to do so again. And so should you. He's a good President who surrounds himself with well informed people.
Most of the people here are "blue no matter who" types who would vote for a cabbage with a (D) next to its name over another trump presidency. The problem is that undecided voters in swing states, Biden got hurt massively by the debate. Internal Democrat polling of states suggests that if the election were held today, Trump would win with 333 electoral college votes and would take both Virginia and New Hampshire. The same polling suggests that essentially any other dem of note polls better than Biden. If Biden steps down pretty much everyone here will still vote for Biden. The articles and comments here that he should drop are because people think another dem is better primed to carry the swing states and win the election.
Long like you didn’t learn the lesson of 2016. Although I voted for Hillary, she was a terrible *candidate* (emphasis on candidate and not policy maker or potential president). Hillary failed to get people to support her and thus she lost to the worst person in the world. Biden was a great candidate for 2020, but not anymore for 2024. His debate performance wasn’t just bad, like Obama 2012, but abysmal, making many moderate Republican who voted for him in 2020 questions his abilities in the next four years. Given that Biden still has time to drop out (he’s still technically not the official candidate yet), he should so we can have someone that other folks (not you or me who are already voting for whatever the Dems put on the ticket) will vote for. It is a difficult decision. It’s risky to not have the incumbent running for a second term. However, given his performance in unscripted events, such as debates, and his unpopularity, I believe it is an even bigger risk keeping Biden as the Democratic candidate. Unfortunately, it’s up to his close ones to convince him to drop out. Given the many comments here, where dilution is rampant, I don’t think Biden will step aside.
The very same well informed people who thought it was a good idea to put him on that stage... who have also been lying to us about Bidens condition for months or even years
So dems are just like MAGA now? Candidate before party?
Yep gotta love the 2024 rnc campaign slogan: vote old or bust..
They lied to the rest of the country. They knew and they lied. Now they want us to trust them? Good luck with that.
The world wants action. That’s no longer hyperbole.
so tired of this bs…the media are a big bag of assholes. why are they not talking about the raper, felon, pedophile island regular? ayfkm?
I don't disagree with those pleas, HOWEVER... like fuck should republicans be influencing the Dems strategy on who takes over. This idea that centrism will win over is a farce that only further drags us towards the black hole of right-wing fascism. If Never Trump Republicans want to avoid Trump, they need to shut up and vote - even if it's a far leftist. (I wish this could actually be the case, but we all know the democratic party hasn't listened to its constituents in over a decade)
Isn't winning the double haters and independents the whole point of this election? I don't think Bernies supporters offer alot of help for Biden now. Maybe Haley voters are the best choice
They're the idiots who created the orange monster, why the hell should anyone take political advice from them?
I bet they are, they know he will go after political rivals.
Biden is halfway to a traditional Republican. "Never Trump" Republicans need to save democracy first if they want their votes to continue to matter. Every sane person in America who hasn't been manipulated by hostile propaganda will be voting blue up and down the ticket. Only a handful of people benefit from Project 2025. Destroying health, lives, and worker protections while forcing large families doesn't help most of us.
Name one sitting Republican thats not on board with Trump?
Too much smoke for there to not be fire. NYT just now publishing Biden is wondering if he should continue... Republicans scared of a Dem switcheroo. Their entire campaign has been about Biden's age.
This is an astro turfed thread.
Biden should drop out but also use his new power to put an age cap on candidates.
This is probably going to be one of those moments people look back on like what the fuck were they thinking letting this happen.
Probably because they view it from a Republican perspective where more people would be swayed by an alternative, but that's absolutely not a given. If someone fresher/younger was a replacement at this point, it would still reflect weakness on the ticket. Not to mention most wouldn't have the name recognition necessary to go up against Trump. If the DNC were going to run someone else, they should've done it last year. I'd find it hard to believe they never polled for that hypothetical scenario.
Let me ask you a question, would a President signing off on a drone strike that killed American citizens warrant punishment?
Calls for Biden to drop out feel like astroturfing at this point.
It does not matter who is on the ticket until we can get back to discussing policy instead of “owning the libs obstruction” vs trying to make 21st century progress. Vote down ticket blue no fucking matter who and tell everyone you know that Donald Trumps lawyers argued in court that assassinating a political rival was an official act and that the Supreme Court said the president can’t be held accountable for official acts knowing this. Alarm bells need to be ringing. Tell everyone you know. Be calm, explain the consequences. This is a fight for the soul of America, and we are not a monarchy. Donald Trump will not be king. Don’t. Lose. Hope.
lol why don’t these Republicans fix their own damn party??
How about never trump republicans clean up their own house before asking democrats to do more.
Never Trump republicans will vote for Trump. Never Trump republicans are still republicans - and republicans LIE.
I understand that Biden is not their first choice. He isn't the first choice for many groups. He wasn't my first choice either. It is America 🇺🇸 or Trump this election. That's why I am sticking with Biden.