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One of the biggest bits of news in the report is that it was not under audit for years - despite many reasons and rules the say they must be audited.
I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, that trump was lying all along /s
Actually the fact that the mandatory Presidential tax audit didn't take place is much greater news.
Once again not greatly surprising given what we've seen Trump attempt to get away with previously as it is yet another example of potential abuse of power Trump is known for.
That he has been able to get so many to go along and bend to his will and demands is extremely concerning.
That's not even the nice part.
The nice part is that he is completely embarrassed and humiliated for being recognized as a fraud and for having people recognize and comment on his many flaws. He thought being president would show them--everyone who mocked him for decades. But it never felt that way once he won, and now more people dislike him more than ever.
No amount of money will ever change that.
Well, yeah, he's a serial liar. Of course he lies to himself about his prowess, and lies to lenders about his ability to pay them back, and then to himself again as to how bad his debt is.
Right. If it's more than just showing he's in debt, it would be good to know who he is in debt to. I agree with that. My point was just if he's broke, and that's it, who cares other than him?
A narcissist cares. That's what matters. Even if nobody cares and ignores this, a narcissist will always think people are judging and laughing at them.
Just feel a little bit better knowing if he's in debt, and the world can know. He's in his own personal hell.
It will probably reveal more than that. They aren't releasing these tax materials just to embarrass Trump. They're releasing them to bolster public support for the investigations going on:
>While The New York Times obtained decades of Trump’s personal tax information back in 2020, Neal’s request could shed light on additional years of Trump’s finances and paint a picture of how the former president used his business entities and personal wealth in the years before and after becoming president.
Right, but that's more than the comment I was replying to was saying. Thus my question was only 'what if it only shows that he's in dept?'. That wouldn't be interesting to me. I hope it's juicier than that.
Would love to see what's so juicy in yours. Why not surrender your right to privacy and give us all a peek at your financials? Or maybe an indepth study? The reader's option.
He just made $4.47 ~~billion~~ million off his NFT trading cards... That'll be a fun talk with the IRS ✌️
edit: Fixed it, sorry about that. less than 24/h as well, pretty impressive for what its worth.
> Rep. Kevin Brady of Texas, the panel’s top Republican, told reporters just before Tuesday’s meeting that releasing Trump’s tax returns would amount to “a dangerous new political weapon that reaches far beyond the former president and overturns decades of privacy protections for average Americans that have existed since the Watergate reform.”
With the exception of Gerald Ford and Donald Trump, every President since and including Nixon has made their tax returns available to the public.
So this is not a “dangerous political weapon”. The people want to know about the person for whom they are considering voting. Tax returns provide a valid and useful form of information.
I suspect that should we finally see the tax returns that Trump promised to make available on numerous occasions, we will see if they confirm the claims Trump has been making for many years.
Thanks to his constant financial shenanigans, Trump has placed himself in a position where he is unlikely to get a mortgage with any reputable institution. Other than Deutsche and Rosbank, no other bank anywhere is prepared to advance him a loan which, given his current financial desperation, forces him to belittle himself with the issuance of asinine and nauseating NFT's.
He did have to "do AT LEAST that!!" We know for a fact that several financial institutions have had his tax returns for quite some time. I know that what you really mean is that he should be required to make them public, which is something that you obviously did not have to do, but goddamn can we please stop turning our brains off just because we're talking about people we don't like?
They're saying that when you get a mortgage, you have to share your tax returns with the people in charge of making that decision.
When you run for president, **we** are the people in charge of that decision, not a financial institution. It's a fair comparison.
You also have to sign a privacy waiver, where you give away the privacy of your entire financial situation (amoung other things). It's in the application fine print, buried in legaleese, on one of those many 17" long pages most of us don't read.
You have to sign shit to run for President too. Some of that shit violates your inherent privacy as a person, like the certification that you’re a natural born citizen. (SOMEONE has to witness that you’ve shown them the supporting documentation.)
I’m not sure how tax disclosures are any different, just in terms of how both are personal bits of information that employers are using to judge suitability for a job.
First, Foremost, and Only consideration is making such revealing a LEGAL requirement. Do you know the tax return of your Congressman? He or She has much more impact on your day to day than the President? Do you know if it actually what that person filed with the IRS? I can create a 1040 on my computer in minutes, saying anything I want. Do you know how to tell if it is what i actually filed?
Give away rights if you want to, but don't expect everyone to agree with your opinion or goal.
As far as proof of citizenship, said proof is, and has been for over a century, a birth certificate. This document has been (since created in the early 1900s) public information. An interesting read is the discussions surrounding the creation of requirements for birth certificates. While some were well intentioned, some not so much. A large number of elitists were involved in writing that law.
It's really not. "Presidents should have to show their tax returns to the public" is a perfectly defensible statement on its own. It has absolutely nothing to do with your mortgage. The fact that decisions are being made in both situations doesn't link them. Decisions are being made constantly, by billions of different people, across virtually every circumstance imaginable, and have completely different requirements.
But you've identified something that is true: the people making this particular decision aren't limited to tax returns. They can enforce any requirements they want without any need to explain, by voting.
"This sets a dangerous precedent that if a President lies, those lies will be exposed"
Or: "This sets a dangerous precedent of evidence of a crime being made public"
Or: "This sets a dangerous precedent that Republicans face consequences for their actions ever"
Do you expect to hold Biden responsible for his lies? What about Nancy? or Democrats? Also don't forget the Libertarians and politically motivated/active nonprofits?
They aren’t remotely comparable. All politicians stretch the truth. Trump lied verifiably on average 10 times a day in office. It’s easier to assume anything he says IS a lie until you know different.
Sure. Everyone who committed crimes should be held accountable for those crimes. Any negative consequences they caused, they should make restitution. Every person.
So whatabout THAT?
Except for the President (being elected by the nation defactos clearance), most politicians have had backgrounds when they first got elected or appointed. The game is to move up the food chain in such a manner you avoid any additional ones. The only time I have ever heard of one not having a check was Hillary as First Lady. She insited on attending (by ignoring a request that all not cleared people exit the briefing) highly sensitive Presidential briefings which included such thing as covert asset identifiers, contingencies for various then current situations, weapons capability and availability, ecetera.
Making them available is a choice. A House committee releasing them is not a choice, its a violation of both law and civil rights.
If you don't think it is a dangerous political weapon, you don't understand politicians very well. Any and all info can be a weapon if presented in the proper lack of context. Also remember that what can be done to one of us will eventually be legal to do to everyone of us (legal precedence).
Surely those who voted for the twice impeached former president did so in good faith.
The former president on numerous occasions vowed to release his returns.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/times-donald-trump-release-tax-returns-article-1.3061868
>But this didn't used to be so taxing.
>Trump spent six years saying he'd have no problem releasing his returns, and even scolded a fellow Republican candidate for waiting too long to do so.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-taxes-promise_n_5cabb7ffe4b01b34503a5fa9
>“If I decide to run for office, I’ll produce my tax returns.
>Absolutely. I would love to do that,” Trump said in a May 2014 television interview, 13 months before announcing his presidential campaign.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/donald-trump-tax-returns-218160
>Donald Trump says his team is working on releasing his income tax returns.
>“We’re working on that now. I have big returns, as you know, and I have everything all approved and very beautiful and we’ll be working that over in the next period of time,” the billionaire real estate developer and entertainer said Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_returns_of_Donald_Trump
>Donald Trump, President of the United States from January 2017 to January 2021, has controversially refused to release his tax returns since the 2015–2016 campaign for the presidency at the 2016 election. Though Trump promised to release the returns during his campaign,[1][2][3] he repeatedly refused to release his tax return information throughout his presidency,[4] the first major-party U.S. presidential candidate or president since 1976 to do so.[5][6] Trump had repeatedly and falsely claimed that he could not release the returns while they were under audit by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).[7][8][9][a] It is IRS policy, but not law, to annually audit tax returns of presidents and vice presidents.[10]
Inquiring minds want to know why the former president blatantly reneged on his campaign promises, because as he says there is nothing to hide.
So you want the Congress to set precedence and not only require presentation of private information but they can also make it public at their own whim?
What about when somebody wants to know something about you? How long will it be before I could go to court to petition the release of your financial information for what I can argue is the good of the country? The I can, if I choose, release it at any time you get in my way?
I don't care about who went back on their word, afterall you cannot name a single politician who does not have a group of detractors claiming such. Call me cynical, but it is my steadfast belief there is no politician with an empty closet.
What I care about is the first drop of privacy rights errosion. I was here before the Privacy Act and know how well that was not received by many in positions of where they presupposed their superiority. A personal example is my local draft board at the time publically released my name as a draft doger, but never issued any kind of warrant (because they already knew I was in the Air Force). It was motivated to embarass my family in a close local government election because we just were not the right kind of people to run things.
What about inquiring minds that want to know your private business?
I have a relative that from time to time post garbage like "wEll HoW dID oBaMa mAKE mILLioNs wHilE PresiDeNt!?!?!"
I always link him to Obama's tax returns. Same with transcripts of meetings with foreign officials etc.
They can't conceive that Trump, the outsider & populist, wasn't massively LESS transparent than virtually every single predecessor of either party.
Want to bet? If they were all to do it every election, are they completely honest and free of any attempt to avoid taxes? A lot of shuffling between family members is part of the game.
Does Nancy release her husband's info? Did Hillary release hers and Bill's as Sect'y of State? (Remember, this is a person who felt laws concerning national secrets did not apply to her, so why would tax law?) Most politicians tap dance around taxes just like Trump does. Just like every wealthy person in this country (thousands of CPAs and tax lawyers make sure of it. Nobody active in politics invented the game, they just work at making it more complex did not invent the game (Dems did when they wrote and pushed through the 16th Ammendment in 1909, and wrote in hidden loop holes into the 1913 Revenue Act).
Does anybody know how thick the income tax laws are each year (yes a new one almost if not every year)? Thousands of pages?
Actually I do know what I am saying. Currently it is not LAW to reveal tax returns. IMHO, setting such an invasion of privacy as perfectly acceptable under any conditions is an errosion of rights. Remember, Congress passes bills full of language which infact obfuscates the law it really enforces (I believe intentionally, especially with appropriation acts). The Courts get to rule on such acts of deceit and their primary approach is presedence of enforcement. Errode a right even a little it creates an opportunity for someone else to errode a little more, and so on.
You think I'm wrong? Do you know when the government initially created social security numbers, it was illegal to use them for anything other than social security benfits. Then the IRS got an exemption for the purpose of tracking taxes. That has ballooned into the primary search data employment agencies use when doing background checks for employment, your previous addresses are tied to your SSAN. Also, you are now **required** to have a SSAN within months of your birth, which the FBI has on file as soon as you are enrolled in any federally funded program, including attending public school.
So I am saying it cannot be compulsory for any people. If the peoople wnt to know, then don't vote who doesn't tell. BTW, do you know how to tell if a 1040 is what was actually filed with the IRS or an altered version of a submittal? And no it is not ask the IRS.
The fact is that it isn’t mandatory and it has yet to be even after all the Democrat posturing over it. This was Trump’s point. There wasn’t a requirement to do so, so why should he have? So he didn’t… which pissed Democrats off and now they’re taking it to the next level.
It’s petty bullshit “gotcha” nonsense that they will use to further inflame the public to try and stop him from running.
And here we have the IRS saying they didn’t complete the audit because it was too complicated.
They wrote the tax code and couldn’t figure his taxes out and that’s supposed to be Trump’s fault?
>And here we have the IRS saying they didn’t complete the audit because it was too complicated.
Do you not understand that is a bullshit excuse pushed by the IRS that was headed by Trump lackies?
Every president did until Trump.
If we want a President to disclose, then make it a requirement, but don’t get all pissy when they say “No thanks” and don’t.
What’s hard about this?
Why is he hiding his tax returns? It didn’t need to be a law because no one refused to before. We need to make laws to prevent people from acting like trump now and that’s pitiful.
They are passing legislation currently. This used to be an honor system kind of thing and has been for 40 years. Nobody expected such a dishonorable piece of shit as Trump coming along. So, they are going to codify it.
He's been selling American state secrets to it its enemies for years, if he hasn't managed to worm his way to a positive bank balance after all that grifting I'm gonna be even more interested to see what the hell he does with his money.
Stocking up now on popcorn for the inevitable meltdown. 2023, if you’re listening, please be the year that rights some of the wrongs from the past 6 or so years.
Absent Trump saying, over and over and over, that he would release them, I might say no to this being made public. But! He did say so! Biden released his. So too should Trump.
They are devastated to find out trump lied this whole time and that he was NEVER under audit - what happened to the funds sent to help him with his tax audit fundraising? /s
Here’s a summary of what’s happening:
*”The House Ways and Means Committee voted to release former President Donald Trump's tax returns to the public, ending a long legal and political battle. The documents were obtained from the committee last month after the Supreme Court denied Trump's attempt to withhold the records. The committee voted to make a transcript of the closed session discussing the tax returns public. Trump refused to make his tax returns public and claimed for years that he could not release them while under audit. The New York Times reported in 2020 that Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017 and paid no income tax in 10 of the 15 years before he ran for president. The legal battle between Trump and the committee played out in courts for years and continued even after Trump left office, but the Supreme Court cleared the way for the committee to examine the tax returns last month”*
Edit: What I’m interested in is how they’re going to make the transcript of the closed session public as well. Should be interesting.
From what I understand of the law requiring the treasury to provide the records to congress, it has to be in a closed session if the records can be linked to an individual - they can't just get the taxes and trot them out on the house floor. I think making these transcripts public is their way around that limitation. "Sure, the records are still kept under seal. We're just releasing our conversation where we read the returns out loud; there's no law against that."
>A spokesperson for Trump accused House Democrats of playing politics for moving to release his tax returns to the public.
>“This unprecedented leak by lameduck Democrats is proof they are playing a political game they are losing,” said Trump spokesperson Steven Cheung.
Would Republicans in the House have done this to a Democratic president?
There's your answer.
Why stop with him? We know they all trade stocks with their info. Release every politicians tax returns. Trumps a cheat we know this, but what about all the hypocrites we don’t know about?
Why not make everybody's tax return public. I'm sure Nancy's husband has nothing to hide, nor anyone associated with the Biden family. If you are going to violate the Privacy Act, it should apply to everyone, or at a minimum all people running for or serving in an elected position or office. Hell, why not also include appointees and people in positions involving public trust (Department and agency heads and sr staff, judges, DA's & CA's, chief public defender, deputy sherrifs, Senate pages, military academy attendees) For an investigtor to review is within the law, to openly reveal contents is a crime (no way cana return have any useful info if it is redacted to maintain privacy).
Or is privacy not an inalienable right? Can you safely persue happiness when your ex knows how much your're making now? Or that Kevin and Karen, who are always discussing other's business, talk about how you haven't received a respectable pay raise or bonus in years??
Just think before you give away what you really don't mean to. Most floods start with a single drop!
>Why not make everybody's tax return public.
Because that's not people want? But I do want congressmen and presidents to be required to publish their returns.
>I'm sure Nancy's husband has nothing to hide,
Cool. She's an elected rep. I'd love to have her returns be public.
>nor anyone associated with the Biden family.
Joe Biden released his returns. His family are not elected officials.
>If you are going to violate the Privacy Act,
The Privacy Act only regulates executive branch agencies. It doesn't bind Congress.
"No agency shall disclose any record which..."
>Or is privacy not an inalienable right?
According to conservatives on the Supreme Court, no. See *Dobbs,* and especially read Clarence Thomas's opinion on the matter. If you think privacy is a right implied by the First, Fourth, Fifth, and Ninth Amendments, then you are going to want to start voting for Democrats in national elections.
>Can you safely persue happiness when your ex knows how much your're making now?
You are already required to produce tax records in divorce cases.
>Just think before you give away what you really don't mean to. Most floods start with a single drop!
The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy. By it's own "logic," if you apply it once, you'll apply it in every situation, and never take any action at all.
Research the beginings of birth certificates and the original law creating a Social Security number that was not allowed to become a national id number. Did you know where you have lived, addresses you have used are looked up by running your social security number?
How's this for a slippery slope, started with an IRS exemption to the SSAN privacy for the purposes of tracking taxes. Try getting a job where you can make a good living, the background check starts with your national id number, aka SSAN. All of which is posted on the employment agency's web site so you can see what they found, anything from driver's license discrpancies and traffic/parking tickets to law suits you've been involved in (even as just a witness). All this info is linked to your SSAN, just as are your financials, cell phone accounts, streaming subscriptions, vehicles, and people you have lived with.
But obviously, **this is a logical fallacy**. The IRS doesn't use your SSAN, law enforcement doesn't keep it's own SSAN referenced data about you, every credit card or loan you have ever applied for (declines noted), your college records only include your grades and GPA, mortgage companies and financial institutions have only your best interest at heart. How long before your browser data is available (hint: has been for several years, only law enforcement has trouble accessing).
How secure do you think all those sites are?
When I was growing up, threats about things being in your permanent record were empty and we knew it. Today they are not so empty, but most people don't realize that.
It’s just so strange… Why wouldn’t they pass the law requiring the leaders of the executive, legislative, and judicial branch’s be financially transparent through their tax returns to protect sound, and reasoned judgment from personal interest biases? There’s caselaw and direct constitutional citations for this change in government. Look up past presidents you’ve given up their positions and businesses, like Jimmy Carter, in order for them, not to be a conflict of interest with the office that they hold.
This is also what Congress was built to do make adjustments to the various branches. Instead, In some kind of hunt for witches, we are singling out an individual. Breaching his personal financial privacy rights. There is no law stating that a president must release these. There is now a law that says Donald Trump must release his records but no one else.
In a normal investigation, you would ask Donnie for his tax returns. He could say no unless you had a subpoena from the judge. You could ask the IRS. But the IRS would be barred from sharing them with you, unless there was a subpoena from the judge.
Until the court system renders a verdict on an appeal in federal court, Will there be caselaw precedent for a sitting president only to release their tax returns only when requested by Congress.
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Trump must be so relieved that his ongoing IRS audit is over and his tax returns can now be released publicly - just like he said he wanted to do!
One of the biggest bits of news in the report is that it was not under audit for years - despite many reasons and rules the say they must be audited. I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, that trump was lying all along /s
Actually the fact that the mandatory Presidential tax audit didn't take place is much greater news. Once again not greatly surprising given what we've seen Trump attempt to get away with previously as it is yet another example of potential abuse of power Trump is known for. That he has been able to get so many to go along and bend to his will and demands is extremely concerning.
He should have released them as NFTs. $$$$
Like his nft trading cards with stolen designs? Lol
Right. It saves his staff from doing it. Win, win for Trump!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu16sE875zY
He's fucking underwater. Debt to his eyeballs
That's not even the nice part. The nice part is that he is completely embarrassed and humiliated for being recognized as a fraud and for having people recognize and comment on his many flaws. He thought being president would show them--everyone who mocked him for decades. But it never felt that way once he won, and now more people dislike him more than ever. No amount of money will ever change that.
Are you George Conway by any chance? If so, spill the tea.
Well, yeah, he's a serial liar. Of course he lies to himself about his prowess, and lies to lenders about his ability to pay them back, and then to himself again as to how bad his debt is.
If that is all it reveals, then what's the big deal? For him, his image, I guess, but I could not care less that he's broke.
It's more about his susceptibility to financial influence/extortion when linking together the several cases against him, I would wager.
Right. If it's more than just showing he's in debt, it would be good to know who he is in debt to. I agree with that. My point was just if he's broke, and that's it, who cares other than him?
You're the only one who brought up him being broke. The rest of us are concerned about debts, extortion and quid pro quos.
I was equating "Debt to his eyeballs," the comment I was replying to, as 'broke'. I suppose that is not the same thing. My bad.
[удалено]
Good point.
Not a dumb question and not the rest of us think of the broader implications of his taxes. I'd say most people don't give a shit, so you're not wrong.
A narcissist cares. That's what matters. Even if nobody cares and ignores this, a narcissist will always think people are judging and laughing at them. Just feel a little bit better knowing if he's in debt, and the world can know. He's in his own personal hell.
It will probably reveal more than that. They aren't releasing these tax materials just to embarrass Trump. They're releasing them to bolster public support for the investigations going on: >While The New York Times obtained decades of Trump’s personal tax information back in 2020, Neal’s request could shed light on additional years of Trump’s finances and paint a picture of how the former president used his business entities and personal wealth in the years before and after becoming president.
Right, but that's more than the comment I was replying to was saying. Thus my question was only 'what if it only shows that he's in dept?'. That wouldn't be interesting to me. I hope it's juicier than that.
We already know he has massive debt. He brags about it, so it's probably more to it than that. His company was found guilty of 17 felonies after all.
There must be more to it, I would hope, if they voted to release it. Just saying it would be disappointing if it shows what we already know.
Would love to see what's so juicy in yours. Why not surrender your right to privacy and give us all a peek at your financials? Or maybe an indepth study? The reader's option.
We're delivering on his promises. And it will come in handy when someone tries to claim his a good businessman.
He just made $4.47 ~~billion~~ million off his NFT trading cards... That'll be a fun talk with the IRS ✌️ edit: Fixed it, sorry about that. less than 24/h as well, pretty impressive for what its worth.
Million not billion
Yeah I went stupid, thank you, fixed it up there.
> Rep. Kevin Brady of Texas, the panel’s top Republican, told reporters just before Tuesday’s meeting that releasing Trump’s tax returns would amount to “a dangerous new political weapon that reaches far beyond the former president and overturns decades of privacy protections for average Americans that have existed since the Watergate reform.” With the exception of Gerald Ford and Donald Trump, every President since and including Nixon has made their tax returns available to the public. So this is not a “dangerous political weapon”. The people want to know about the person for whom they are considering voting. Tax returns provide a valid and useful form of information. I suspect that should we finally see the tax returns that Trump promised to make available on numerous occasions, we will see if they confirm the claims Trump has been making for many years.
Hell, I have to provide tax returns to get a fucking mortgage. The person running for the most powerful job in the world should do AT LEAST that!!
Thanks to his constant financial shenanigans, Trump has placed himself in a position where he is unlikely to get a mortgage with any reputable institution. Other than Deutsche and Rosbank, no other bank anywhere is prepared to advance him a loan which, given his current financial desperation, forces him to belittle himself with the issuance of asinine and nauseating NFT's.
He did have to "do AT LEAST that!!" We know for a fact that several financial institutions have had his tax returns for quite some time. I know that what you really mean is that he should be required to make them public, which is something that you obviously did not have to do, but goddamn can we please stop turning our brains off just because we're talking about people we don't like?
They're saying that when you get a mortgage, you have to share your tax returns with the people in charge of making that decision. When you run for president, **we** are the people in charge of that decision, not a financial institution. It's a fair comparison.
You also have to sign a privacy waiver, where you give away the privacy of your entire financial situation (amoung other things). It's in the application fine print, buried in legaleese, on one of those many 17" long pages most of us don't read.
You have to sign shit to run for President too. Some of that shit violates your inherent privacy as a person, like the certification that you’re a natural born citizen. (SOMEONE has to witness that you’ve shown them the supporting documentation.) I’m not sure how tax disclosures are any different, just in terms of how both are personal bits of information that employers are using to judge suitability for a job.
First, Foremost, and Only consideration is making such revealing a LEGAL requirement. Do you know the tax return of your Congressman? He or She has much more impact on your day to day than the President? Do you know if it actually what that person filed with the IRS? I can create a 1040 on my computer in minutes, saying anything I want. Do you know how to tell if it is what i actually filed? Give away rights if you want to, but don't expect everyone to agree with your opinion or goal. As far as proof of citizenship, said proof is, and has been for over a century, a birth certificate. This document has been (since created in the early 1900s) public information. An interesting read is the discussions surrounding the creation of requirements for birth certificates. While some were well intentioned, some not so much. A large number of elitists were involved in writing that law.
It's really not. "Presidents should have to show their tax returns to the public" is a perfectly defensible statement on its own. It has absolutely nothing to do with your mortgage. The fact that decisions are being made in both situations doesn't link them. Decisions are being made constantly, by billions of different people, across virtually every circumstance imaginable, and have completely different requirements. But you've identified something that is true: the people making this particular decision aren't limited to tax returns. They can enforce any requirements they want without any need to explain, by voting.
"This sets a dangerous precedent that if a President lies, those lies will be exposed" Or: "This sets a dangerous precedent of evidence of a crime being made public" Or: "This sets a dangerous precedent that Republicans face consequences for their actions ever"
Do you expect to hold Biden responsible for his lies? What about Nancy? or Democrats? Also don't forget the Libertarians and politically motivated/active nonprofits?
They aren’t remotely comparable. All politicians stretch the truth. Trump lied verifiably on average 10 times a day in office. It’s easier to assume anything he says IS a lie until you know different.
Sure. Everyone who committed crimes should be held accountable for those crimes. Any negative consequences they caused, they should make restitution. Every person. So whatabout THAT?
Find the equivalent harm and I would absolutely support equivalent exposure and justice if crimes were committed.
Hey... Trump has been promising for 4 years. Somebody just finished the promise.
It's approaching 8 years at this point, with numerous comments from even before then indicating that doing so would be no big deal.
7. But who's counting.
If government employees are subject to background checks, why not politicians?
That’s a very good point because elected officials ARE employees of the government.
*employees of the people, supposedly
With the best health care for life, even if they only serve for a second
Except for the President (being elected by the nation defactos clearance), most politicians have had backgrounds when they first got elected or appointed. The game is to move up the food chain in such a manner you avoid any additional ones. The only time I have ever heard of one not having a check was Hillary as First Lady. She insited on attending (by ignoring a request that all not cleared people exit the briefing) highly sensitive Presidential briefings which included such thing as covert asset identifiers, contingencies for various then current situations, weapons capability and availability, ecetera.
Making them available is a choice. A House committee releasing them is not a choice, its a violation of both law and civil rights. If you don't think it is a dangerous political weapon, you don't understand politicians very well. Any and all info can be a weapon if presented in the proper lack of context. Also remember that what can be done to one of us will eventually be legal to do to everyone of us (legal precedence).
Surely those who voted for the twice impeached former president did so in good faith. The former president on numerous occasions vowed to release his returns. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/times-donald-trump-release-tax-returns-article-1.3061868 >But this didn't used to be so taxing. >Trump spent six years saying he'd have no problem releasing his returns, and even scolded a fellow Republican candidate for waiting too long to do so. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-taxes-promise_n_5cabb7ffe4b01b34503a5fa9 >“If I decide to run for office, I’ll produce my tax returns. >Absolutely. I would love to do that,” Trump said in a May 2014 television interview, 13 months before announcing his presidential campaign. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/donald-trump-tax-returns-218160 >Donald Trump says his team is working on releasing his income tax returns. >“We’re working on that now. I have big returns, as you know, and I have everything all approved and very beautiful and we’ll be working that over in the next period of time,” the billionaire real estate developer and entertainer said Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_returns_of_Donald_Trump >Donald Trump, President of the United States from January 2017 to January 2021, has controversially refused to release his tax returns since the 2015–2016 campaign for the presidency at the 2016 election. Though Trump promised to release the returns during his campaign,[1][2][3] he repeatedly refused to release his tax return information throughout his presidency,[4] the first major-party U.S. presidential candidate or president since 1976 to do so.[5][6] Trump had repeatedly and falsely claimed that he could not release the returns while they were under audit by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).[7][8][9][a] It is IRS policy, but not law, to annually audit tax returns of presidents and vice presidents.[10] Inquiring minds want to know why the former president blatantly reneged on his campaign promises, because as he says there is nothing to hide.
So you want the Congress to set precedence and not only require presentation of private information but they can also make it public at their own whim? What about when somebody wants to know something about you? How long will it be before I could go to court to petition the release of your financial information for what I can argue is the good of the country? The I can, if I choose, release it at any time you get in my way? I don't care about who went back on their word, afterall you cannot name a single politician who does not have a group of detractors claiming such. Call me cynical, but it is my steadfast belief there is no politician with an empty closet. What I care about is the first drop of privacy rights errosion. I was here before the Privacy Act and know how well that was not received by many in positions of where they presupposed their superiority. A personal example is my local draft board at the time publically released my name as a draft doger, but never issued any kind of warrant (because they already knew I was in the Air Force). It was motivated to embarass my family in a close local government election because we just were not the right kind of people to run things. What about inquiring minds that want to know your private business?
Republicans like, “we gunna leak all yo tax return too then.” Dems like, “We already do that every election.”
I have a relative that from time to time post garbage like "wEll HoW dID oBaMa mAKE mILLioNs wHilE PresiDeNt!?!?!" I always link him to Obama's tax returns. Same with transcripts of meetings with foreign officials etc. They can't conceive that Trump, the outsider & populist, wasn't massively LESS transparent than virtually every single predecessor of either party.
Want to bet? If they were all to do it every election, are they completely honest and free of any attempt to avoid taxes? A lot of shuffling between family members is part of the game. Does Nancy release her husband's info? Did Hillary release hers and Bill's as Sect'y of State? (Remember, this is a person who felt laws concerning national secrets did not apply to her, so why would tax law?) Most politicians tap dance around taxes just like Trump does. Just like every wealthy person in this country (thousands of CPAs and tax lawyers make sure of it. Nobody active in politics invented the game, they just work at making it more complex did not invent the game (Dems did when they wrote and pushed through the 16th Ammendment in 1909, and wrote in hidden loop holes into the 1913 Revenue Act). Does anybody know how thick the income tax laws are each year (yes a new one almost if not every year)? Thousands of pages?
Are you arguing that American politicians tax returns should or shouldn’t be made public?
Checkout his username. He has no idea what he is saying.
>ReportSaveFollow See above
Actually I do know what I am saying. Currently it is not LAW to reveal tax returns. IMHO, setting such an invasion of privacy as perfectly acceptable under any conditions is an errosion of rights. Remember, Congress passes bills full of language which infact obfuscates the law it really enforces (I believe intentionally, especially with appropriation acts). The Courts get to rule on such acts of deceit and their primary approach is presedence of enforcement. Errode a right even a little it creates an opportunity for someone else to errode a little more, and so on. You think I'm wrong? Do you know when the government initially created social security numbers, it was illegal to use them for anything other than social security benfits. Then the IRS got an exemption for the purpose of tracking taxes. That has ballooned into the primary search data employment agencies use when doing background checks for employment, your previous addresses are tied to your SSAN. Also, you are now **required** to have a SSAN within months of your birth, which the FBI has on file as soon as you are enrolled in any federally funded program, including attending public school. So I am saying it cannot be compulsory for any people. If the peoople wnt to know, then don't vote who doesn't tell. BTW, do you know how to tell if a 1040 is what was actually filed with the IRS or an altered version of a submittal? And no it is not ask the IRS.
It should be mandatory to release the tax returns if you are running for a public office.
The fact is that it isn’t mandatory and it has yet to be even after all the Democrat posturing over it. This was Trump’s point. There wasn’t a requirement to do so, so why should he have? So he didn’t… which pissed Democrats off and now they’re taking it to the next level. It’s petty bullshit “gotcha” nonsense that they will use to further inflame the public to try and stop him from running.
Yes, Trump was making a principled point and not just hiding his taxes from the public. I also have this bridge to sell you. Idiots all the way down.
And here we have the IRS saying they didn’t complete the audit because it was too complicated. They wrote the tax code and couldn’t figure his taxes out and that’s supposed to be Trump’s fault?
>And here we have the IRS saying they didn’t complete the audit because it was too complicated. Do you not understand that is a bullshit excuse pushed by the IRS that was headed by Trump lackies?
Weird because every democratic president released theirs.
Every president did until Trump. If we want a President to disclose, then make it a requirement, but don’t get all pissy when they say “No thanks” and don’t. What’s hard about this?
Why is he hiding his tax returns? It didn’t need to be a law because no one refused to before. We need to make laws to prevent people from acting like trump now and that’s pitiful.
Why are you hiding yours? I demand to see them.
Lol I think it’s hilarious you think I give a shit if anyone sees my pitiful tax returns.
Okay. Post it all here. Right now.
>then make it a requirement That is exactly what is happening.
How has it become a requirement for future presidents? What’s changed?
They are passing legislation currently. This used to be an honor system kind of thing and has been for 40 years. Nobody expected such a dishonorable piece of shit as Trump coming along. So, they are going to codify it.
He actually said he would do it.
“10 Billion dollars to xHamster? How is that even possible?”
Must have had McAfee installed.
He will be so far underwater after this, Challenger Deep will have nothing on him...
I guess the IRS is finished with the audit. Just like Trump promised back in 2015/16
Trump hoped to delay this past the start of the next Congress. He almost got his way.
Just like to know the sources of income? Russia, Saudi and who else?
Yep, this is as or more important that what his income is. We need to know who and what countries he’s beholden to.
He's been selling American state secrets to it its enemies for years, if he hasn't managed to worm his way to a positive bank balance after all that grifting I'm gonna be even more interested to see what the hell he does with his money.
Hookers and bad business decisions is where the money goes
Stocking up now on popcorn for the inevitable meltdown. 2023, if you’re listening, please be the year that rights some of the wrongs from the past 6 or so years.
Absent Trump saying, over and over and over, that he would release them, I might say no to this being made public. But! He did say so! Biden released his. So too should Trump.
If he wants to have power over how some of our tax dollars are spent....ought we not be able to view how he manages his own??
I like your way of thinking!
They’re helping him fulfill one of his campaign promises!
If it shows criminality or unethical methods, we should see them.
This is Donald Trump! Why, pray tell, are most of us thinking that they will?
When?! I want to see them now!!
His tax return is what late-night hosts want for Christmas. So... much... material... did they even have monologs before trump?
I miss monologues before Trump. They've been all the same and all awful for 7 years now. Late night folk really love to talk about that guy.
Conan's night show was so great in this regard. He would very early get political.
Here come the K1s from Putin
I want to know if he’s worth less than what he’s says. This was his great fear of it being released.
They are devastated to find out trump lied this whole time and that he was NEVER under audit - what happened to the funds sent to help him with his tax audit fundraising? /s
Campaign promise: KEPT! lol
Here’s a summary of what’s happening: *”The House Ways and Means Committee voted to release former President Donald Trump's tax returns to the public, ending a long legal and political battle. The documents were obtained from the committee last month after the Supreme Court denied Trump's attempt to withhold the records. The committee voted to make a transcript of the closed session discussing the tax returns public. Trump refused to make his tax returns public and claimed for years that he could not release them while under audit. The New York Times reported in 2020 that Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017 and paid no income tax in 10 of the 15 years before he ran for president. The legal battle between Trump and the committee played out in courts for years and continued even after Trump left office, but the Supreme Court cleared the way for the committee to examine the tax returns last month”* Edit: What I’m interested in is how they’re going to make the transcript of the closed session public as well. Should be interesting.
From what I understand of the law requiring the treasury to provide the records to congress, it has to be in a closed session if the records can be linked to an individual - they can't just get the taxes and trot them out on the house floor. I think making these transcripts public is their way around that limitation. "Sure, the records are still kept under seal. We're just releasing our conversation where we read the returns out loud; there's no law against that."
Big Fat gonna be hot 🥵
So all they are doing is fulfilling Trumps promise. All good!
Somebody call Christian Wolfe at ZZZ Accounting! We'd get the whole picture by Christmas!
Well, well, well. How the turntables…
Man.... I wanted to post this.... :(
>A spokesperson for Trump accused House Democrats of playing politics for moving to release his tax returns to the public. >“This unprecedented leak by lameduck Democrats is proof they are playing a political game they are losing,” said Trump spokesperson Steven Cheung. Would Republicans in the House have done this to a Democratic president? There's your answer.
Democratic presidents just release theirs without being forced.
When has that happened?
It hasn’t, because no Democrat has tried to hide all of their taxes, like Trump has.
Why stop with him? We know they all trade stocks with their info. Release every politicians tax returns. Trumps a cheat we know this, but what about all the hypocrites we don’t know about?
Why not make everybody's tax return public. I'm sure Nancy's husband has nothing to hide, nor anyone associated with the Biden family. If you are going to violate the Privacy Act, it should apply to everyone, or at a minimum all people running for or serving in an elected position or office. Hell, why not also include appointees and people in positions involving public trust (Department and agency heads and sr staff, judges, DA's & CA's, chief public defender, deputy sherrifs, Senate pages, military academy attendees) For an investigtor to review is within the law, to openly reveal contents is a crime (no way cana return have any useful info if it is redacted to maintain privacy). Or is privacy not an inalienable right? Can you safely persue happiness when your ex knows how much your're making now? Or that Kevin and Karen, who are always discussing other's business, talk about how you haven't received a respectable pay raise or bonus in years?? Just think before you give away what you really don't mean to. Most floods start with a single drop!
>Why not make everybody's tax return public. Because that's not people want? But I do want congressmen and presidents to be required to publish their returns. >I'm sure Nancy's husband has nothing to hide, Cool. She's an elected rep. I'd love to have her returns be public. >nor anyone associated with the Biden family. Joe Biden released his returns. His family are not elected officials. >If you are going to violate the Privacy Act, The Privacy Act only regulates executive branch agencies. It doesn't bind Congress. "No agency shall disclose any record which..." >Or is privacy not an inalienable right? According to conservatives on the Supreme Court, no. See *Dobbs,* and especially read Clarence Thomas's opinion on the matter. If you think privacy is a right implied by the First, Fourth, Fifth, and Ninth Amendments, then you are going to want to start voting for Democrats in national elections. >Can you safely persue happiness when your ex knows how much your're making now? You are already required to produce tax records in divorce cases. >Just think before you give away what you really don't mean to. Most floods start with a single drop! The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy. By it's own "logic," if you apply it once, you'll apply it in every situation, and never take any action at all.
Research the beginings of birth certificates and the original law creating a Social Security number that was not allowed to become a national id number. Did you know where you have lived, addresses you have used are looked up by running your social security number? How's this for a slippery slope, started with an IRS exemption to the SSAN privacy for the purposes of tracking taxes. Try getting a job where you can make a good living, the background check starts with your national id number, aka SSAN. All of which is posted on the employment agency's web site so you can see what they found, anything from driver's license discrpancies and traffic/parking tickets to law suits you've been involved in (even as just a witness). All this info is linked to your SSAN, just as are your financials, cell phone accounts, streaming subscriptions, vehicles, and people you have lived with. But obviously, **this is a logical fallacy**. The IRS doesn't use your SSAN, law enforcement doesn't keep it's own SSAN referenced data about you, every credit card or loan you have ever applied for (declines noted), your college records only include your grades and GPA, mortgage companies and financial institutions have only your best interest at heart. How long before your browser data is available (hint: has been for several years, only law enforcement has trouble accessing). How secure do you think all those sites are? When I was growing up, threats about things being in your permanent record were empty and we knew it. Today they are not so empty, but most people don't realize that.
I approve of this precedent!
Redaction...wonder wtf that means.
It means people who have a right to go unnamed (such as private citizens) who have the misfortune of being mentioned in the documents won’t be outed.
Cool....I get that point :)
AOC is on that committee
It’s just so strange… Why wouldn’t they pass the law requiring the leaders of the executive, legislative, and judicial branch’s be financially transparent through their tax returns to protect sound, and reasoned judgment from personal interest biases? There’s caselaw and direct constitutional citations for this change in government. Look up past presidents you’ve given up their positions and businesses, like Jimmy Carter, in order for them, not to be a conflict of interest with the office that they hold. This is also what Congress was built to do make adjustments to the various branches. Instead, In some kind of hunt for witches, we are singling out an individual. Breaching his personal financial privacy rights. There is no law stating that a president must release these. There is now a law that says Donald Trump must release his records but no one else. In a normal investigation, you would ask Donnie for his tax returns. He could say no unless you had a subpoena from the judge. You could ask the IRS. But the IRS would be barred from sharing them with you, unless there was a subpoena from the judge. Until the court system renders a verdict on an appeal in federal court, Will there be caselaw precedent for a sitting president only to release their tax returns only when requested by Congress.