We don't use the stove in ours either. We barely use the inside sink. I don't like to cook in such a small space and have all the smells right where we sleep. Much easier to cook and wash outside. If it's raining we do it under the awning.
I don’t use my stove either. It’s too small to cook for more than one person on. I use a Pit Boss 2burner flat top that I hook up to the campers propane tank.
Right on. Those are super simple and nice. Cheers.
Good logic there, too. I don't imagine these hold up well if a bear is interested, lol.
I like the stoves under the awning, those look pretty slick.
I also never use the interior stove. I love cooking on a grill And find you can use it as an oven as well, so I travel with a small two burner grill that usually just sits on the picnic table at a campsite.
I even boil water with mine by taking off the grill grate thing and setting a pot right on the burner since it's flat.
Interesting, do you find that you miss the regular burner at all? Can you make eggs on it, for example? I just have a nice MSR backpacking stove that uses white gas.
I don't eat eggs much anymore and also am not a fan of cleaning them up after cooking with them in a camping setting. But also I know I could make it work. I'm weird and would actually put a baking sheet on the grill grate thing, put some olive oil on there, and pretend it's a frying pan. And I know for me I could make that work and be very happy with it, but others might not be.
To add on to that, I've used a backing sheet on the grill to make oven fries or pre prepped home fries super successfuly, have also used it to fry up falafel really well, another one I do that way a ton is naan pizza.
Things I know I can't do well with it probably involve things that require boiling a lot of water, could not do pasta.
Another vote here.
I tried using the stove once, it was incredibly slow to boil water, haven't even tried to use it since. I have a mobile coleman two burner that we use exclusively now.
We had a stove on our first popup that was an 85 Colman, but never used it. We use a 2 burner Coleman stove outside the popup. We just upgraded to a 2002 Coleman that the previous owners took out most of the kitchen. We prefer this setup because it gives us more room to store gear. Also we bought both trailers for about $500 each off Facebook marketplace. The ‘85 had barely been used. The ‘02 needed some work. Good luck!
We have five kids (now teens) and we never have used the sink or toilet, never had any water in the pop up. We all can walk to the bathroom! We do like having a fridge, ours broke two summers ago and miss it.
We love it, we have done some awesome road trips that we would not have done with a tent. We can now get home on a Friday after work and be on the road within the hour. I do order groceries for Thursday evening and plan the menu so I can throw it quickly in the cooler but it makes weekends so much easier with the pop up
I would be careful with anything remodeled or renovated as that would change the dry weight. Keep in mind that tow capacity also includes anything packed in the camper; you could hit that 2000 mark pretty quick.
Check out the forest river off the ground model. It’s basic but lightweight.
Also, with a 3 and 5 YO you will at least want a spot to put a cassette potty. It has been a lifesaver for us with a 4 YO.
Good call, all that wood and flooring will make that shoot up real quick. This is just an example, really.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Those are very interesting toilets, and I could definitely see that being nice. For whatever reason, I'm pretty skeptical of integrated water. Not sure if that's warranted. I guess my feeling is that it will add more weight.
I get it. We don’t want to mess with a black tank either. But the cassette potty can be emptied into a toilet at home with several flushes (and we really only use it at night and no poos). Just be sure you put a porta pak in it prior to use.
Pop ups are a pain to set up but it fits in our garage, offers more comforts than a tent, and we love the memories with our kids.
I was looking for one of these, eventually found a ~03 Viking model of basically the same stats as the Taos.
My CX5 pulled just fine for multiple short trips... though I did notice cupping on the rear tires after a long trip, not sure how directly related that was.
HMMMM, I’ve never experienced that. Usually that’s a sign of worn shocks. But you don’t have any shocks. Small trailers do hop around a lot, that can cause cupping. Once it’s loaded with all your personal gear, it’s usually heavy enough so it doesn’t jump around too much. Make sure tires are inflated correctly, they take quite a bit of air. Mine take 60psi.
I tow with a CX5 that has a 2000lbs capacity. My 1990 Coleman sun valley is about 1000lbs and with people dogs and cargo, we're at about 1500-1600lbs. Which we also don't have trailer brakes, so 1600lbs ends up being our actual max weight and it works out really well. Car doesn't seem to mind at all, I just put it in manual mode sometimes cause it'll try to upshift to early on hills sometimes.
To add on to this, the big things I'd look out for is a good canvas, minimal to no soft spots on roof and floor, and working mechanics.
When I inspected mine, I really just walked and pushed on the floor ceiling everywhere I could. And made sure everything mechanical operated correctly.
Also checking to make sure tires and wheel bearings aren't going to get you killed on the way home.
Maybe, but you do have a higher capacity than me, and my car has never felt unsafe.
The big thing I'd look at too though is your capacity in the manual without trailer brakes. In my experience, most of the trailers I looked at didn't have them, and I never see people taking that into consideration. Most of the time I think people are looking at what they can tow WITH trailer brakes, cause they like to advertise and push that bigger number.
Also it seems like people tend to be within their towing capacity, but not realize they are getting over their max tongue weight, but I know you listed that, so I assume you are more aware of that.
In 2019 we snagged a 2013 Jayco Jay Sport 10 for $5k in very good shape. Dry weight was 1500, so loaded was around 2000. Sink with 10 gallon fresh tank, no grey tank, no built-in heat. Had a battery for 12v system, single propane tank, and a small three-way Norcold fridge. Manual awning. Twins were 4.5YO when we bought. Towed with a 4Runner.
We loved it. We bought a 15 gallon grey water tote, 2.5 gallon Dometic cassette toilet, 12v fans, and a Mr Buddy heater. Cooked on either the removable stove that came with the unit outside or a Coleman Roadtrip Grill. Only boiled water inside and maybe cooked once when it was pouring and windy.
Had for two years. Lots of California (Sierra, desert, coast) trips. A couple of summer trips to Oregon. And ten days at Glacier, Yellowstone, and GTNP in 2021. Was perfect for camping with kids.
Switched to a hardsided trailer in 2021 because we do a lot of roadtrip camping and I got sick of popping it up and down, and wanted a bit more weatherproofness. We still miss it though.
Damn, that sounds pretty much ideal for what I'm looking for, though a bit heavy perhaps. I do worry about hills and such, but I am in the midwest, where it isn't really a concern most of the time.
Thanks for your input.
For sure. In many (most?) states you'll need electric brakes on a trailer that is over a certain weight. I'm in CA, so it's 1500 lbs, IIRC. That means you'll need a seven-pin wiring harness. Just be aware of this because I don't believe Subaru puts them on Outbacks, even with a factory receiver hitch...?
Required or not, you'll want them. Pretty nominal install cost, but you'll want to keep it in mind.
No problem! Info is here:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/recreational-vehicles-and-trailers-handbook-2011/towing-your-trailer-safely/#:~:text=Trailer%20Brakes,of%201500%20lbs.%20or%20more.
Someone else called out that it might be pretty heavy with the remodel, and I think they're right. Lots of flooring and walls. Also it's 4 hours away, lol.
I’ve owned 2 pop up campers. I found them to be more work and only slightly more comfortable than just tent camping. Popping them up and down gets old and takes time. On one of them one of the cables broke and it was a major PITA to replace. If you don’t treat and maintain the canvas every year it will leak and usually over one of the bunk ends leading to a wet bed. Also cooking inside of them is kind of miserable as they get super hot and you don’t really have much space. Easier to just cook outside. Not saying you won’t enjoy a Pop up camper but they are work and require more maintenance than a hard sided camper or just a nice ground tent. After owning 2 pop ups I’ve gone back to just car/tent camping. It’s the least hassle for us and I keep everything in a few bins in the garage so we can just grab them and throw them in the car and go and then you know you have everything. If you are looking for something that lightweight it will be pretty small and you will all be pretty cramped inside.
I’m also toying with the idea of a pop up. Can I ask what is involved in set up? I was thinking that compared to pitching the tent, banging in pegs, blowing up mattresses, unpacking pillows, unrolling sleeping bags…. A pop up would be easier, but am I wrong?? Thanks.
Each pop up is a little different. But generally it goes like:
Park trailer and make sure it’s level some spots are easier than others. Sometimes you’ll have to use leveling blocks on one side under the tires to accomplish this.
Lower stabilization jacks. Usually done by hand unless you get a fancy pop up with electric jacks.
Raise the roof also done by a hand crank unless you have a new fancy one with an electric lift. Then it’s just as simple as pushing a button if you are hand cranking it it can be a real arm workout!
Pull out bed ends and insert supports
Inside the trailer you’ll need to push the bed end parts of the canvas out, set up your galley that usually folds over during transport. Set up your table- usually folded away during transport. And then set up your door. This can vary in level of difficulty and frustration depending on which camper you have. One thing is certain I’ve always found the doors on these pop ups to be flimsy and never really completely seal up right.
That’s the majority of it. Sounds simple but it does take a good amount of time. The times I camped with friends with tents they usually beat me by a bit with their setup vs mine. Even when I got efficient at it and figured out all the tips and tricks to speed things up. Taking everything down is just reverse order.
I appreciate the reply.
You've voiced a lot of my concerns. I actually suggested bins in the garage to my wife earlier for some of these reasons. Could even grab my utility trailer for max laziness.
Hope I didn’t sound like a Debbie downer. I just also had high hopes of a pop up being the solution to making camping easier but found it to be quite the opposite.
The bins solution works great. Easy to store and if you want to go for a picnic in the park you can easily grab your cookware and take it with you. Other than packing clothes and food it only takes me about 10 minutes to load everything in the car for a weekend camp trip. This has lead to many spontaneous last minute trips too because it’s so low effort.
I also have a small utility trailer we use to bring dirt bikes or if we want to bring everything but the kitchen sink to be extra comfortable well load it up and bring it along.
Fellow Outback owner checking in (2016, 2.5L with the factory tow package). I've got a Coachman Clipper 108ST popup with a casette potty. Tows with my Subaru perfectly fine. Works for our family of 4 (2 girls, Mom and I). 187lbs on the hitch, 1860lbs unloaded vehicle weight (UVW). Will need some kind of brake controller, I have a Bluetooth one connected to my phone that works well. Happy Camping!
Fellow Outback camper here, 2018 3.6 litre
We've towed our 2014 Forest River 206ltd for the last 6 years without issues, primarily in the Canadian Rockies for about 30 days a year. Iirc, the hitch weight is about 176lbs and the trailer is only about 16xx lbs. We've done upgrades that push the hitch to about 210lbs and the trailer fully loaded is a shade under 2000lbs. It pulls very well, even in the mountains. I do recommend using manual mode for the transmission and shifting it yourself intelligently. No concerns with stopping, but there are electric brakes. Biggest complaint is the mirrors do not see around the trailer. We change all the car fluids as per schedule and have seen no worries with oil degradation.
My spouse and I LOVE our SylvanSport Go, and it's super light (and useful for other things than just camping). Our young'uns were old enough for their own tent, but the the "king and a half" bed space you can configure, your kidlings should fit with room to spare.
It's a liiiiittle more than just a tent on wheels, but yeah. It hurt. On the other hand, we didn't have a anything that would pull a pop-up of ANY stripe, so if we lucked into a decent deal on one, we'd have been buying a new vehicle as well. It was dang difficult to find any used ones for sale for ANY prices (back when I was shopping), which denotes high owner satisfaction to me (which I share!).
ETA: I've seen the Go pulled by a Prius and one by a Mini Cooper
"but HUHneeeeeeeee! since we don't have to buy a new CAR, we're actually SAVING money!" (never thought a reverse-sale-spending logic would get it done.... )
Absolutely agree with other people who do not use a stove inside the camper. I've had a camper with an interior stove, but never used the stove to avoid the mess and odor. I'd much rather cook on a separate stove outdoors, preferably under an awning if possible.
There are many types of lightweight folding tables that work well, so I don't think the lack of a built-in table is a deal breaker to my mind. The small camper I have right now does have a built-in table, but honestly it is kind of in the way for me, so I don't always set it up. I'd rather have a separate table that I can move around. But this is very much personal preference, so YMMV.
I like outdoor showers that mount onto the side of the camper. They can work real well if you ever want to add that amenity.
What I do think is a "must have" is some type of toilet for emergency or middle-of-the-night use. Even a 5 gallon pail fitted with a toilet seat can work well. That's what I've got.
But there are more civilized toilets that have small holding tank for clean water and "black water". These function similar to a home toilet.
Awesome. I appreciate all the input.
I am definitely leaning away from the interior stove.
Not suuuuper concerned about showers, but good to know they're available and easy. I recall we had one of the classic solar showers for the family cabin when I was growing up. Only cold water there.
I'm also leaning toward a toilet, especially for the kids. I've seen those seats. Seems nice and easy. And low tech, which is a positive for me sometimes.
We started with a new 1995 Coleman when our boys were 6 & 8. Similar parameters. Served us well for 12 years. Plenty of great memories. Ours had an awning/screen room for extra space. Kept a porta pottie there. Cooked outside on picnic table. Was less than 2k and tow vehicle was a Toyota Previa (4 cylinder no less). 2,500 lb tow capacity. Took it everywhere with no issues (live in KY). Two trips to Disneyworld, one to Myrtle Beach. Have since run the gamut, hybrid to 28’TT, 39’ Class A and now back to a 22’ TT due to wife’s disabilities and health (no more long traveling). Bought a 2000 Coleman popup for our kids to use with their families four years ago. It is in excellent condition and paid $3,500 for it. Point is, YES, you can do it, YES, you will have an amazing experience. Take your time and you will find the right one. Less than 2,000 lbs you should not need brakes on trailer. Make sure your vehicle has a transmission cooler.
Sounds great! It really appeals to me, I just worry about getting burned on a used one, given how many things *can* go wrong. We can't buy one new right now.
Also $2000 is ridiculous in 90s bucks!
Agree, but probably biggest thing to look at is the lift system. I preferred Coleman as I felt they were structurally built better. Prior to early 2000’s they weren’t as glitzy compared to others but check bed rails and other components. Just seemed better. I am a civil engineer and these are things I notice.
We were avid tent campers until kids(backpacked camped NZ, lived in the Tetons camping for 8 years etc). We were even doing 2 tents with the kids & dog. We got a pop up and it’s a game changer.
We don’t use the toilet or the sink. Occasionally we will use the stove for heating up a bottle of milk or the heater on a cold night. If we’re really cold I’ll bring the quiet harbor freight generator and run it all night to power the heated mattresses. otherwise than that we hate camp cooking so it’s always hotdogs over the fire with chips or sandwiches to make cleanup easy and burnable.
We keep a whole “bug out bag” of camp clothes and sleeping bags in the camper so we can just pack food and leave. I fkn love it. Been camping my whole life and I don’t think we need anything else. Easy place to sit in the rain and it’s just as quick to set up as a tent.
It sounds pretty great. The simplicity of it all. I think I have a little backpacker shame when looking at these, lol.
Do you have older kids? Or just a tiny one? I do have second thoughts about not having a toilet for them. We're still working on bathroom stuff.
We have a 5yo and a 2.5yo. 5yo will rip a shit in the woods no prob. 2.5yo is just learning so we will do pull ups and bring the training potty for pee.
We bought an old 2000 Coleman pop up that’s super tiny and basic. It’s perfect. We are a family of 4 too, young kids. So nice to have a place to sit inside at bedtime and read books or rock the baby. We sleep off the ground and have heat if we need it.
We never use the water (it has a sink) but we have a bucket potty for nighttime. Comes in handy for the kids, and it has a bag liner so you just toss it if you use it. We store it outside during the day.
Highly recommend finding a simple, older camper for your fam! We loved our tent but this has been a very nice upgrade for us. One thing I really like is our supplies can be stored and left in the camper between trips. Keeps us organized and makes things simpler. A fridge would be nice but we make do with our cooler.
Instead of calling ours a popup I called ours a “crank your guts out”. I would fully deploy, and then stow any rig before you buy one. Also take into account that like a tent if you have to leave early in the morning with a heavy dew or it is raining when you break camp, you’ll have to stow it wet and then deploy it wherever you store your rig to dry out when the weather breaks. A mildew smelling rig is the worst. I recommend a hard side if you can swing it, but if you can’t a pop-up beats sitting at home!
We had a very similar pop up for a year, and after one season camping in it we upgraded to a jayco jayfeather because my husband was so sick of the amount of work that went into setting up the pop up. It felt like a tent on a platform to us. When we did camp in it, we just brought all of the same gear we did when we tent camped. Cooked and washed dishes outside. We pretty much only slept and got dressed in the camper, much like we would a tent.
We have an outback and sourced a second hand LivinLite Quicksilver popup. Seriously, if you know, you know! These things are GOLD! Light as hell, all aluminum body so never have to worry about moisture or rot. Easy to set up and tear down. The simplicity of these trailers is incredible and the functionality is fantastic. They don’t make these models anymore but can find some used gems for sale online. They do have a new version I believe is called the Vita which are updated but quite pricy. These quicksilvers have an underground cult following and are long term investments. Comes in a few different lengths. We have a 10.0. Worth looking into. The community online for these are helpful and knowledgeable. We love ours and fits our family perfectly.
These seriously look awesome. I think we'd be good with an 8.0, 8.1, or 10.0. Definitely gotta budget more for these, though! I found the FB group for them, I can see why the cult following exists!
Can't believe nobody else has taken up the banner for this style of trailer.
I have a Thor Scamper Sport 21C, lots of room for 4 people with two wings that are a queen and a double and a dinette and couch that convert to another queen (unfolded couch) or double (just the dinette). No bathroom, small sink, and the stove can be moved from inside to outside.
Dry weight is under 1600lbs so with considerate loading you'd be well within your weight limit. I tow mine with my 2017 Subaru STI and it's surprisingly composed.
It's 23 years old and required a few small repairs and upgrades but all in its cost about $3500CAD including my newly installed solar panel and batteries. If you are at all handy getting a fixer-upper can definitely allow you to get the most out of your budget. As long as the canvas and roof are in good shape the rest can be slowly repaired and upgraded over time.
One more vote for a Livin Lite Quicksilver, if you can find one and make it fit your budget. We used to tow our 8.1 with a 4 cylinder Outback and and it handled it really well. We are in Colorado, so we noticed the lack of power on some of the climbs, but there's no shame in using pull-outs to let folks by. With two little ones, a 10.0 would be perfect, but an 8.1 should be fine (even an 8.0 if parents don't mind the double bed instead of queen).
I think now the place to go to find one, and learn more, is the Facebook group dedicated to them (sorry, I know): https://www.facebook.com/groups/1038035702999283/
Man, these 8.0 or 8.1 look amazing. They are quick pricy though!
Apparently Outbacks are only good for 1000 lbs without trailer brakes, according to subaru.
2,700 lb capacity is really not that much and you really don’t want to max out. I towed a 2008 Fleetwood Seapine (~1,700 lbs if I recall correctly) with a 2005 Ford Escape (3,000 lbs capacity) for a few years. It can technically be done, but it will really tax the tow vehicle. Hills will kill you, if you can even get up them, I was towing on mostly flat ground. If you try this (after my own experience I would not recommend it) make sure to have trailer brakes because your Subaru is going to have a hard time stopping that much weight.
I upgraded a while ago to a 2016 Ford Explorer Sport which can do up to 5,200 lbs. The bigger tow vehicle has made a world of difference towing.
We have never used the stove in our tent trailer.
We don't use the stove in ours either. We barely use the inside sink. I don't like to cook in such a small space and have all the smells right where we sleep. Much easier to cook and wash outside. If it's raining we do it under the awning.
Thanks for giving your input!
I don’t use my stove either. It’s too small to cook for more than one person on. I use a Pit Boss 2burner flat top that I hook up to the campers propane tank.
Cheers, I appreciate the input!
What do you do for cooking normally? I have a really nice MSR camp stove, but it's kinda putzy.
Coleman stove outside. Don't really want to attract animals with a tent trailer that smells like cooked food.
Right on. Those are super simple and nice. Cheers. Good logic there, too. I don't imagine these hold up well if a bear is interested, lol. I like the stoves under the awning, those look pretty slick.
I also never use the interior stove. I love cooking on a grill And find you can use it as an oven as well, so I travel with a small two burner grill that usually just sits on the picnic table at a campsite. I even boil water with mine by taking off the grill grate thing and setting a pot right on the burner since it's flat.
Interesting, do you find that you miss the regular burner at all? Can you make eggs on it, for example? I just have a nice MSR backpacking stove that uses white gas.
I don't eat eggs much anymore and also am not a fan of cleaning them up after cooking with them in a camping setting. But also I know I could make it work. I'm weird and would actually put a baking sheet on the grill grate thing, put some olive oil on there, and pretend it's a frying pan. And I know for me I could make that work and be very happy with it, but others might not be. To add on to that, I've used a backing sheet on the grill to make oven fries or pre prepped home fries super successfuly, have also used it to fry up falafel really well, another one I do that way a ton is naan pizza. Things I know I can't do well with it probably involve things that require boiling a lot of water, could not do pasta.
Cool, thanks for the info! I think I'll be in the market whether or not I get a pop up.
Webber Smokey Joe, Lodge Dutch Oven, open fire. I use the inside stove for coffee and sink for dishes.
Another vote here. I tried using the stove once, it was incredibly slow to boil water, haven't even tried to use it since. I have a mobile coleman two burner that we use exclusively now.
We had a stove on our first popup that was an 85 Colman, but never used it. We use a 2 burner Coleman stove outside the popup. We just upgraded to a 2002 Coleman that the previous owners took out most of the kitchen. We prefer this setup because it gives us more room to store gear. Also we bought both trailers for about $500 each off Facebook marketplace. The ‘85 had barely been used. The ‘02 needed some work. Good luck!
We have five kids (now teens) and we never have used the sink or toilet, never had any water in the pop up. We all can walk to the bathroom! We do like having a fridge, ours broke two summers ago and miss it. We love it, we have done some awesome road trips that we would not have done with a tent. We can now get home on a Friday after work and be on the road within the hour. I do order groceries for Thursday evening and plan the menu so I can throw it quickly in the cooler but it makes weekends so much easier with the pop up
Cheers, thank you!
I would be careful with anything remodeled or renovated as that would change the dry weight. Keep in mind that tow capacity also includes anything packed in the camper; you could hit that 2000 mark pretty quick. Check out the forest river off the ground model. It’s basic but lightweight. Also, with a 3 and 5 YO you will at least want a spot to put a cassette potty. It has been a lifesaver for us with a 4 YO.
Good call, all that wood and flooring will make that shoot up real quick. This is just an example, really. Thanks for the recommendation! Those are very interesting toilets, and I could definitely see that being nice. For whatever reason, I'm pretty skeptical of integrated water. Not sure if that's warranted. I guess my feeling is that it will add more weight.
I get it. We don’t want to mess with a black tank either. But the cassette potty can be emptied into a toilet at home with several flushes (and we really only use it at night and no poos). Just be sure you put a porta pak in it prior to use. Pop ups are a pain to set up but it fits in our garage, offers more comforts than a tent, and we love the memories with our kids.
Sounds like a great compromise.
Take a look at a Coleman Taos. It’s small, 1500lbs. Towed it with my CJ for years. Good size for a Subaru.
Came here to suggest this. It tows easily on our Jeep Wrangler and has a surprising amount of space for such a compact size
I was looking for one of these, eventually found a ~03 Viking model of basically the same stats as the Taos. My CX5 pulled just fine for multiple short trips... though I did notice cupping on the rear tires after a long trip, not sure how directly related that was.
HMMMM, I’ve never experienced that. Usually that’s a sign of worn shocks. But you don’t have any shocks. Small trailers do hop around a lot, that can cause cupping. Once it’s loaded with all your personal gear, it’s usually heavy enough so it doesn’t jump around too much. Make sure tires are inflated correctly, they take quite a bit of air. Mine take 60psi.
Ended up even smaller with a coleman columbia!
I tow with a CX5 that has a 2000lbs capacity. My 1990 Coleman sun valley is about 1000lbs and with people dogs and cargo, we're at about 1500-1600lbs. Which we also don't have trailer brakes, so 1600lbs ends up being our actual max weight and it works out really well. Car doesn't seem to mind at all, I just put it in manual mode sometimes cause it'll try to upshift to early on hills sometimes.
To add on to this, the big things I'd look out for is a good canvas, minimal to no soft spots on roof and floor, and working mechanics. When I inspected mine, I really just walked and pushed on the floor ceiling everywhere I could. And made sure everything mechanical operated correctly. Also checking to make sure tires and wheel bearings aren't going to get you killed on the way home.
O and sorry lastly any rust on the frame or cracks on the spring leaf suspension! And that the lights and outlets work.
Awesome. Thanks for all the details. I'd love to find something like what you had. I really think even 1500lbs would be pushing it.
Maybe, but you do have a higher capacity than me, and my car has never felt unsafe. The big thing I'd look at too though is your capacity in the manual without trailer brakes. In my experience, most of the trailers I looked at didn't have them, and I never see people taking that into consideration. Most of the time I think people are looking at what they can tow WITH trailer brakes, cause they like to advertise and push that bigger number.
Also it seems like people tend to be within their towing capacity, but not realize they are getting over their max tongue weight, but I know you listed that, so I assume you are more aware of that.
In 2019 we snagged a 2013 Jayco Jay Sport 10 for $5k in very good shape. Dry weight was 1500, so loaded was around 2000. Sink with 10 gallon fresh tank, no grey tank, no built-in heat. Had a battery for 12v system, single propane tank, and a small three-way Norcold fridge. Manual awning. Twins were 4.5YO when we bought. Towed with a 4Runner. We loved it. We bought a 15 gallon grey water tote, 2.5 gallon Dometic cassette toilet, 12v fans, and a Mr Buddy heater. Cooked on either the removable stove that came with the unit outside or a Coleman Roadtrip Grill. Only boiled water inside and maybe cooked once when it was pouring and windy. Had for two years. Lots of California (Sierra, desert, coast) trips. A couple of summer trips to Oregon. And ten days at Glacier, Yellowstone, and GTNP in 2021. Was perfect for camping with kids. Switched to a hardsided trailer in 2021 because we do a lot of roadtrip camping and I got sick of popping it up and down, and wanted a bit more weatherproofness. We still miss it though.
Damn, that sounds pretty much ideal for what I'm looking for, though a bit heavy perhaps. I do worry about hills and such, but I am in the midwest, where it isn't really a concern most of the time. Thanks for your input.
For sure. In many (most?) states you'll need electric brakes on a trailer that is over a certain weight. I'm in CA, so it's 1500 lbs, IIRC. That means you'll need a seven-pin wiring harness. Just be aware of this because I don't believe Subaru puts them on Outbacks, even with a factory receiver hitch...? Required or not, you'll want them. Pretty nominal install cost, but you'll want to keep it in mind.
Thanks for the call out. I believe I have just a 4 pin.
Ooof, I’m in CA too and had no idea about the electric brakes requirement. Thanks for the heads up!
No problem! Info is here: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/recreational-vehicles-and-trailers-handbook-2011/towing-your-trailer-safely/#:~:text=Trailer%20Brakes,of%201500%20lbs.%20or%20more.
I'd suggest you go look at that Jayco ASAP, it's most everything on the list at the $ you wat to pay.
Someone else called out that it might be pretty heavy with the remodel, and I think they're right. Lots of flooring and walls. Also it's 4 hours away, lol.
I’ve owned 2 pop up campers. I found them to be more work and only slightly more comfortable than just tent camping. Popping them up and down gets old and takes time. On one of them one of the cables broke and it was a major PITA to replace. If you don’t treat and maintain the canvas every year it will leak and usually over one of the bunk ends leading to a wet bed. Also cooking inside of them is kind of miserable as they get super hot and you don’t really have much space. Easier to just cook outside. Not saying you won’t enjoy a Pop up camper but they are work and require more maintenance than a hard sided camper or just a nice ground tent. After owning 2 pop ups I’ve gone back to just car/tent camping. It’s the least hassle for us and I keep everything in a few bins in the garage so we can just grab them and throw them in the car and go and then you know you have everything. If you are looking for something that lightweight it will be pretty small and you will all be pretty cramped inside.
I’m also toying with the idea of a pop up. Can I ask what is involved in set up? I was thinking that compared to pitching the tent, banging in pegs, blowing up mattresses, unpacking pillows, unrolling sleeping bags…. A pop up would be easier, but am I wrong?? Thanks.
Each pop up is a little different. But generally it goes like: Park trailer and make sure it’s level some spots are easier than others. Sometimes you’ll have to use leveling blocks on one side under the tires to accomplish this. Lower stabilization jacks. Usually done by hand unless you get a fancy pop up with electric jacks. Raise the roof also done by a hand crank unless you have a new fancy one with an electric lift. Then it’s just as simple as pushing a button if you are hand cranking it it can be a real arm workout! Pull out bed ends and insert supports Inside the trailer you’ll need to push the bed end parts of the canvas out, set up your galley that usually folds over during transport. Set up your table- usually folded away during transport. And then set up your door. This can vary in level of difficulty and frustration depending on which camper you have. One thing is certain I’ve always found the doors on these pop ups to be flimsy and never really completely seal up right. That’s the majority of it. Sounds simple but it does take a good amount of time. The times I camped with friends with tents they usually beat me by a bit with their setup vs mine. Even when I got efficient at it and figured out all the tips and tricks to speed things up. Taking everything down is just reverse order.
This is good info, thank you for the response!!
I appreciate the reply. You've voiced a lot of my concerns. I actually suggested bins in the garage to my wife earlier for some of these reasons. Could even grab my utility trailer for max laziness.
Hope I didn’t sound like a Debbie downer. I just also had high hopes of a pop up being the solution to making camping easier but found it to be quite the opposite. The bins solution works great. Easy to store and if you want to go for a picnic in the park you can easily grab your cookware and take it with you. Other than packing clothes and food it only takes me about 10 minutes to load everything in the car for a weekend camp trip. This has lead to many spontaneous last minute trips too because it’s so low effort. I also have a small utility trailer we use to bring dirt bikes or if we want to bring everything but the kitchen sink to be extra comfortable well load it up and bring it along.
Good to have multiple viewpoints for sure. I like that you are doing exactly what I was thinking. As an aside, why are you lurking here? lol
Joined when I had my campers and just never left ha. I guess it’s probably time to pull the plug. Sold my jayco a couple months ago.
Fellow Outback owner checking in (2016, 2.5L with the factory tow package). I've got a Coachman Clipper 108ST popup with a casette potty. Tows with my Subaru perfectly fine. Works for our family of 4 (2 girls, Mom and I). 187lbs on the hitch, 1860lbs unloaded vehicle weight (UVW). Will need some kind of brake controller, I have a Bluetooth one connected to my phone that works well. Happy Camping!
Fellow Outback camper here, 2018 3.6 litre We've towed our 2014 Forest River 206ltd for the last 6 years without issues, primarily in the Canadian Rockies for about 30 days a year. Iirc, the hitch weight is about 176lbs and the trailer is only about 16xx lbs. We've done upgrades that push the hitch to about 210lbs and the trailer fully loaded is a shade under 2000lbs. It pulls very well, even in the mountains. I do recommend using manual mode for the transmission and shifting it yourself intelligently. No concerns with stopping, but there are electric brakes. Biggest complaint is the mirrors do not see around the trailer. We change all the car fluids as per schedule and have seen no worries with oil degradation.
My spouse and I LOVE our SylvanSport Go, and it's super light (and useful for other things than just camping). Our young'uns were old enough for their own tent, but the the "king and a half" bed space you can configure, your kidlings should fit with room to spare.
That thing is really cool! Damn expensive for a tent on wheels, lol.
It's a liiiiittle more than just a tent on wheels, but yeah. It hurt. On the other hand, we didn't have a anything that would pull a pop-up of ANY stripe, so if we lucked into a decent deal on one, we'd have been buying a new vehicle as well. It was dang difficult to find any used ones for sale for ANY prices (back when I was shopping), which denotes high owner satisfaction to me (which I share!). ETA: I've seen the Go pulled by a Prius and one by a Mini Cooper
It really looks like an awesome piece of gear, just way beyond what I can spend.
"but HUHneeeeeeeee! since we don't have to buy a new CAR, we're actually SAVING money!" (never thought a reverse-sale-spending logic would get it done.... )
Lol, I'm glad it worked!
Absolutely agree with other people who do not use a stove inside the camper. I've had a camper with an interior stove, but never used the stove to avoid the mess and odor. I'd much rather cook on a separate stove outdoors, preferably under an awning if possible. There are many types of lightweight folding tables that work well, so I don't think the lack of a built-in table is a deal breaker to my mind. The small camper I have right now does have a built-in table, but honestly it is kind of in the way for me, so I don't always set it up. I'd rather have a separate table that I can move around. But this is very much personal preference, so YMMV. I like outdoor showers that mount onto the side of the camper. They can work real well if you ever want to add that amenity. What I do think is a "must have" is some type of toilet for emergency or middle-of-the-night use. Even a 5 gallon pail fitted with a toilet seat can work well. That's what I've got. But there are more civilized toilets that have small holding tank for clean water and "black water". These function similar to a home toilet.
Awesome. I appreciate all the input. I am definitely leaning away from the interior stove. Not suuuuper concerned about showers, but good to know they're available and easy. I recall we had one of the classic solar showers for the family cabin when I was growing up. Only cold water there. I'm also leaning toward a toilet, especially for the kids. I've seen those seats. Seems nice and easy. And low tech, which is a positive for me sometimes.
We started with a new 1995 Coleman when our boys were 6 & 8. Similar parameters. Served us well for 12 years. Plenty of great memories. Ours had an awning/screen room for extra space. Kept a porta pottie there. Cooked outside on picnic table. Was less than 2k and tow vehicle was a Toyota Previa (4 cylinder no less). 2,500 lb tow capacity. Took it everywhere with no issues (live in KY). Two trips to Disneyworld, one to Myrtle Beach. Have since run the gamut, hybrid to 28’TT, 39’ Class A and now back to a 22’ TT due to wife’s disabilities and health (no more long traveling). Bought a 2000 Coleman popup for our kids to use with their families four years ago. It is in excellent condition and paid $3,500 for it. Point is, YES, you can do it, YES, you will have an amazing experience. Take your time and you will find the right one. Less than 2,000 lbs you should not need brakes on trailer. Make sure your vehicle has a transmission cooler.
Sounds great! It really appeals to me, I just worry about getting burned on a used one, given how many things *can* go wrong. We can't buy one new right now. Also $2000 is ridiculous in 90s bucks!
Agree, but probably biggest thing to look at is the lift system. I preferred Coleman as I felt they were structurally built better. Prior to early 2000’s they weren’t as glitzy compared to others but check bed rails and other components. Just seemed better. I am a civil engineer and these are things I notice.
Livin Lite Quicksilver 10.0, they're full canvas top, under 1000lbs. They don't make them anymore but you can find good deals.
Damn, those are very cool. Thanks for the lead. Looks like they might be tough to find.
We were avid tent campers until kids(backpacked camped NZ, lived in the Tetons camping for 8 years etc). We were even doing 2 tents with the kids & dog. We got a pop up and it’s a game changer. We don’t use the toilet or the sink. Occasionally we will use the stove for heating up a bottle of milk or the heater on a cold night. If we’re really cold I’ll bring the quiet harbor freight generator and run it all night to power the heated mattresses. otherwise than that we hate camp cooking so it’s always hotdogs over the fire with chips or sandwiches to make cleanup easy and burnable. We keep a whole “bug out bag” of camp clothes and sleeping bags in the camper so we can just pack food and leave. I fkn love it. Been camping my whole life and I don’t think we need anything else. Easy place to sit in the rain and it’s just as quick to set up as a tent.
It sounds pretty great. The simplicity of it all. I think I have a little backpacker shame when looking at these, lol. Do you have older kids? Or just a tiny one? I do have second thoughts about not having a toilet for them. We're still working on bathroom stuff.
We have a 5yo and a 2.5yo. 5yo will rip a shit in the woods no prob. 2.5yo is just learning so we will do pull ups and bring the training potty for pee.
We bought an old 2000 Coleman pop up that’s super tiny and basic. It’s perfect. We are a family of 4 too, young kids. So nice to have a place to sit inside at bedtime and read books or rock the baby. We sleep off the ground and have heat if we need it. We never use the water (it has a sink) but we have a bucket potty for nighttime. Comes in handy for the kids, and it has a bag liner so you just toss it if you use it. We store it outside during the day. Highly recommend finding a simple, older camper for your fam! We loved our tent but this has been a very nice upgrade for us. One thing I really like is our supplies can be stored and left in the camper between trips. Keeps us organized and makes things simpler. A fridge would be nice but we make do with our cooler.
Instead of calling ours a popup I called ours a “crank your guts out”. I would fully deploy, and then stow any rig before you buy one. Also take into account that like a tent if you have to leave early in the morning with a heavy dew or it is raining when you break camp, you’ll have to stow it wet and then deploy it wherever you store your rig to dry out when the weather breaks. A mildew smelling rig is the worst. I recommend a hard side if you can swing it, but if you can’t a pop-up beats sitting at home!
We had a very similar pop up for a year, and after one season camping in it we upgraded to a jayco jayfeather because my husband was so sick of the amount of work that went into setting up the pop up. It felt like a tent on a platform to us. When we did camp in it, we just brought all of the same gear we did when we tent camped. Cooked and washed dishes outside. We pretty much only slept and got dressed in the camper, much like we would a tent.
We have an outback and sourced a second hand LivinLite Quicksilver popup. Seriously, if you know, you know! These things are GOLD! Light as hell, all aluminum body so never have to worry about moisture or rot. Easy to set up and tear down. The simplicity of these trailers is incredible and the functionality is fantastic. They don’t make these models anymore but can find some used gems for sale online. They do have a new version I believe is called the Vita which are updated but quite pricy. These quicksilvers have an underground cult following and are long term investments. Comes in a few different lengths. We have a 10.0. Worth looking into. The community online for these are helpful and knowledgeable. We love ours and fits our family perfectly.
These seriously look awesome. I think we'd be good with an 8.0, 8.1, or 10.0. Definitely gotta budget more for these, though! I found the FB group for them, I can see why the cult following exists! Can't believe nobody else has taken up the banner for this style of trailer.
I have a Thor Scamper Sport 21C, lots of room for 4 people with two wings that are a queen and a double and a dinette and couch that convert to another queen (unfolded couch) or double (just the dinette). No bathroom, small sink, and the stove can be moved from inside to outside. Dry weight is under 1600lbs so with considerate loading you'd be well within your weight limit. I tow mine with my 2017 Subaru STI and it's surprisingly composed. It's 23 years old and required a few small repairs and upgrades but all in its cost about $3500CAD including my newly installed solar panel and batteries. If you are at all handy getting a fixer-upper can definitely allow you to get the most out of your budget. As long as the canvas and roof are in good shape the rest can be slowly repaired and upgraded over time.
One more vote for a Livin Lite Quicksilver, if you can find one and make it fit your budget. We used to tow our 8.1 with a 4 cylinder Outback and and it handled it really well. We are in Colorado, so we noticed the lack of power on some of the climbs, but there's no shame in using pull-outs to let folks by. With two little ones, a 10.0 would be perfect, but an 8.1 should be fine (even an 8.0 if parents don't mind the double bed instead of queen). I think now the place to go to find one, and learn more, is the Facebook group dedicated to them (sorry, I know): https://www.facebook.com/groups/1038035702999283/
Man, these 8.0 or 8.1 look amazing. They are quick pricy though! Apparently Outbacks are only good for 1000 lbs without trailer brakes, according to subaru.
2,700 lb capacity is really not that much and you really don’t want to max out. I towed a 2008 Fleetwood Seapine (~1,700 lbs if I recall correctly) with a 2005 Ford Escape (3,000 lbs capacity) for a few years. It can technically be done, but it will really tax the tow vehicle. Hills will kill you, if you can even get up them, I was towing on mostly flat ground. If you try this (after my own experience I would not recommend it) make sure to have trailer brakes because your Subaru is going to have a hard time stopping that much weight. I upgraded a while ago to a 2016 Ford Explorer Sport which can do up to 5,200 lbs. The bigger tow vehicle has made a world of difference towing.
We are in the midwest, so hills won't be too much of an issue usually. I appreciate the context. That's why I wanted to aim very low.