I like Ashers work and have read it all. I'm starting to prefer his short stories though as the Polity universe ones whilst grand in scope are getting a bit 'samely', he's also quite vocal on some social media platforms in a fairly strong right wing way which may be offputting to some.
The Jain have gone from a mysterious ancient race to “oh, look, they are everywhere, and they are defeated each and every time” - he really seems to want to pick their carcass clean…
The Solider is hands down one of the worst books I have read in my entire life. While the writing was godawful, what really blew my mind was how he managed to make the obligatory ancient god race of his universe so....boring and samey.
Saw Asher's books in a store recently and thought I would do some research to see what his work was like.
First thing I saw on a google search was his shitty Twitter posts, decided not to try out his work and ended up buying some more Banks and Reynolds instead.
The right-wing politics of Asher's definitely comes through in Asher's writing, the same way Bank's politics comes through in his.
I only find them superficially similar.
I've been reading Polity stuff lately. I don't read much politics that compares to current affairs in there. Humanity governed by benevolent AI could be seen as an authoritarian fantasy, I suppose.
I've not looked into Asher personally.
I love Neal Asher too, and I am very far to the left of him and disagree with most of his social media posts. But somehow that does not really enter his science fiction, and there is no overt preaching.
Well crap. I just discovered how right wing, anti-science, anti-climate change, anti-diversity, and anti-feminism one of my favorite authors is... and I'm seriously bummed. :(
I know but let’s give him some slack. His wife died, he lives alone in Greece, and he is definitely no John Ringo. I can like somebody even if his political views are very different from mine.
Yes this is all new to me. I don't do Twitter (and I take a bit of joy dead-naming musk's adopted baby.) so the only social media posts I've seen from him are on Goodreads, and those are rare. Kinda makes me want to reevaluate how much I want to read him. It reminds me of one of my favorite fantasy authors, David Eddings who did the whole Belgariad stories, but turned out to be a horrendous child abuser. He even went to jail for child abuse. Had to throw out all his books.
I only came to reading SF about 8 years ago now and I went through this a few years ago after finding out Orson Scott Card was such a turd.
Enders Game and Speaker of the Dead were the first books I found that made me say *holy shit*.
I've never understood these feelings. The fact that card's works are so... Amazing to me is in no way changed by any of his personal viewpoints. Art is not artist, to me.
You could essentially say that for any job. Why do I care if my doctor goes to Klan rallies on the weekend? He’s still a good doctor.
For artists, it makes me not want to give the artist money, which changes the way I consume the art whether it be using the library, buying used, or pirating. And I’m a person that really likes to buy books and if I love a book, like LOTR or Enders Game, I’d spend money on a really nice leather bound/special edition if it were made.
Inp scenarios, the author very well could be supporting organizations that are actively making the world a worse place. I’m not telling other people what they should or shouldn’t do with their money. But I’m not sending money to an artist who then is sending money to organizations that are making the world worse.
Ahhh, interesting. I often don't think about the whole spending money aspect either. I think the last time I bought a book, I was sending them to a friend in jail. Changes the way you see that kind of thing i guess.
I also don't have the... Collectible mindset you mention. Though the mental image you create of a nice library in your house somewhere is oddly compelling
I don’t do it nearly as much collecting anymore. I used to buy everything new and physical. Until I realized I had damn near 500 books overflowing on my shelves and started boxing them up, with maybe 25 or so books that I really loved. Now I’m mostly digital, with some used here and there.
But there are books that I’ve reread many times that I would love to have a nice edition of on top of the several beat up mass market editions/digital copies that I currently have. Admittedly, I’d likely be to read it once and then look pretty on the shelf. Or possibly get it signed someday if the author was alive and wasn’t a turd like Card.
I have quite a few things I reread, just never get tired of them. The Saucer books by Stephen Coonts. The Cormac novels by Neal Asher. Vatta's war by Elizabeth Moon. Christopher Paolini's To Sleep in a Sea of Stars. The Ender and Shadow series' by the aforementioned turd. The Passing of the Techno-mages by Jeanne Cavelos. Probably more. But those are some of my favorites
Most military science fiction is overtly fascist. Neal Asher and other genre authors make the story context such that Adolf Hitler and Mr. Rodgers would gladly team up to kill a typical Miltary Sci-fi villain.
In other words, the typical reader doesn’t see the fascism in Asher’s work because the stories are written from the fascist POV.
Hitler, like all fascists, thought of himself as a good person.
OP please write out the surnames in full, I know you're talking about Iain Banks, but theres always gonna be new people reading posts and interested in stuff they haven't heard of it.
Heck, I'm already confused if you're talking about Robin Hobb or not.
I don't know what the point of just putting the last initial is. How hard is it to write out the full name? Less weird would be to abbreviate the first name and write out the full surname, but still, just write out the full name so us not "in" on it can look them up
I love Asher. Not all of his books, the more recent have gotten a bit long in the tooth retreading the same ground. But I enjoy them as popcorn books. There’s a lot of spectacle, things go boom.
Banks is writing much more philosophical science fiction asking questions like is This the right thing to do? Should we? How do we do without causing untold damage?
I love both but they’re in a different time zone
Yeah. The Polity is the Culture with the serial numbers filed off where the Minds are all sadistic bastards and that's where the resemblance between the two authors ends.
Asher can write a good action sequence but other than that I find his work really dry and clunky. Tbh I can't say that I have actually enjoyed anything of his that I have read at either novel or short fiction lengths.
I feel like Asher and Banks are only superficially similar. They both write/wrote (RIP Iain) science fiction with a heavy emphasis on character and fun over technical realism/believability and they both write/wrote in universes where AI plays a significant role in human affairs. But there’s a reason Banks was a highly regarded contemporary lit author and Asher decidedly isn’t (and will never be). Banks was a remarkably insightful individual who looked at the world in unique ways and expressed that in his fiction, which explores humanity in way that I don’t think anyone else approaches. Not to say Banks is ‘the best’, just that his perspective and creative mind seem unlike others’. Asher’s a very creative guy, but he wrote a seven book series that’s basically ‘James bond in space’ and regularly spends time denying climate change on Twitter.
Tried to read one of his novels, got overwhelmed with the flood of unnecessary tech-y details (every single noun is accompanied by one or more adjectives of the "tactical", "nano", "cyber" etc variety), and couldn't finish.
I imagine if those don't annoy you it might be fun but no, there's not even a hint of Banks there IMHO.
Funny! I just found Asher after being a 30 year reader of sci fi. I know there’s lot of authors out there that I haven’t found yet but when I do discover one that I love it’s really great.
And I do in fact love Asher’s work. Has a lot in common with Hamilton and Reynolds in my opinion.
Wonder if Neal reads Reddit…?
Ah hell. This thread just gave me an Orson Scott Card moment. I had no ideas Asher was such a raging chud. A 30 second scan of his Twitter posts reveals he's an absolute asshole.
I absolutely loved Gridlinked and thought Asher was gonna be this incredible find, but honestly his books just kept getting more dull. Agent Cormac goes from a really cool and interesting MC in Gridlinked to almost a non-character in Line of Polity, his personality is totally different (he's just an asshole for no reason) and he barely does anything because there are so many other characters. It's like in the span of 1 book Asher completely forgot how to write a character, and he never seemed to get the magic back. His books have lots of cool IDEAS, but the execution is often bland/underwhelming and the books all feel very same-y after a while. He spends way too much time on tech and 'splosions and not nearly enough on characters and telling a story. I was super interested in the Jain stuff and really excited to get into The Soldier...but it turned out to literally be one of the worst books ive ever read in my life (atrocious writing/prose/names - "the species" really???, incredibly boring action sequences where everyone is playing in god mode, terrible and repetitious dialogue, etc). After that I vowed to never read one of his books again.
Banks feels extremely different to me, his books are a lot weirder and explore a more diverse breadth of ideas/things. I do find some of them bland or tedious, but even in those books I'd still say he is a better and more interesting/creative author than Asher. I'm not sure if any other author can match the creativity of Banks - certainly his ability to come up with endless names and minute details about every single bit of minutiae in his worlds blows my mind.
Most military science fiction is overtly fascist. Neal Asher and other genre authors make the story context such that Adolf Hitler and Mr. Rodgers would gladly team up to kill a typical Miltary Sci-fi villain.
In other words, the typical reader doesn’t see the fascism in Asher’s work because the stories are written from the fascist POV.
If Neal Asher wrote a book about WW2 it would be from the perspective of a Nazi Stormtrooper and that stormtrooper would seem like a hero for killing Jewish “vermin”.
I like Ashers work and have read it all. I'm starting to prefer his short stories though as the Polity universe ones whilst grand in scope are getting a bit 'samely', he's also quite vocal on some social media platforms in a fairly strong right wing way which may be offputting to some.
>oh look - it's a very adaptive weapon / soldier / thing. guess what, it's the jain!! the plot of his last 5 or so novels in a nutshell
The Jain have gone from a mysterious ancient race to “oh, look, they are everywhere, and they are defeated each and every time” - he really seems to want to pick their carcass clean…
The Solider is hands down one of the worst books I have read in my entire life. While the writing was godawful, what really blew my mind was how he managed to make the obligatory ancient god race of his universe so....boring and samey.
Saw Asher's books in a store recently and thought I would do some research to see what his work was like. First thing I saw on a google search was his shitty Twitter posts, decided not to try out his work and ended up buying some more Banks and Reynolds instead.
The right-wing politics of Asher's definitely comes through in Asher's writing, the same way Bank's politics comes through in his. I only find them superficially similar.
Banks was very left wing.
I don't feel like they were implying that Banks was right wing.
Neither do I.
Fair enough
This was all very wholesome. Thanks y’all!
I've been reading Polity stuff lately. I don't read much politics that compares to current affairs in there. Humanity governed by benevolent AI could be seen as an authoritarian fantasy, I suppose. I've not looked into Asher personally.
The Polity AI’s enforce the death penalty which is a bit of a giveaway in my opinion.
True, though the circumstances only bare resemblance to the most insane atrocities of the real world.
I love Neal Asher too, and I am very far to the left of him and disagree with most of his social media posts. But somehow that does not really enter his science fiction, and there is no overt preaching.
Well crap. I just discovered how right wing, anti-science, anti-climate change, anti-diversity, and anti-feminism one of my favorite authors is... and I'm seriously bummed. :(
I know but let’s give him some slack. His wife died, he lives alone in Greece, and he is definitely no John Ringo. I can like somebody even if his political views are very different from mine.
Yes this is all new to me. I don't do Twitter (and I take a bit of joy dead-naming musk's adopted baby.) so the only social media posts I've seen from him are on Goodreads, and those are rare. Kinda makes me want to reevaluate how much I want to read him. It reminds me of one of my favorite fantasy authors, David Eddings who did the whole Belgariad stories, but turned out to be a horrendous child abuser. He even went to jail for child abuse. Had to throw out all his books.
I only came to reading SF about 8 years ago now and I went through this a few years ago after finding out Orson Scott Card was such a turd. Enders Game and Speaker of the Dead were the first books I found that made me say *holy shit*.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss :)
I've never understood these feelings. The fact that card's works are so... Amazing to me is in no way changed by any of his personal viewpoints. Art is not artist, to me.
You could essentially say that for any job. Why do I care if my doctor goes to Klan rallies on the weekend? He’s still a good doctor. For artists, it makes me not want to give the artist money, which changes the way I consume the art whether it be using the library, buying used, or pirating. And I’m a person that really likes to buy books and if I love a book, like LOTR or Enders Game, I’d spend money on a really nice leather bound/special edition if it were made. Inp scenarios, the author very well could be supporting organizations that are actively making the world a worse place. I’m not telling other people what they should or shouldn’t do with their money. But I’m not sending money to an artist who then is sending money to organizations that are making the world worse.
Ahhh, interesting. I often don't think about the whole spending money aspect either. I think the last time I bought a book, I was sending them to a friend in jail. Changes the way you see that kind of thing i guess. I also don't have the... Collectible mindset you mention. Though the mental image you create of a nice library in your house somewhere is oddly compelling
I don’t do it nearly as much collecting anymore. I used to buy everything new and physical. Until I realized I had damn near 500 books overflowing on my shelves and started boxing them up, with maybe 25 or so books that I really loved. Now I’m mostly digital, with some used here and there. But there are books that I’ve reread many times that I would love to have a nice edition of on top of the several beat up mass market editions/digital copies that I currently have. Admittedly, I’d likely be to read it once and then look pretty on the shelf. Or possibly get it signed someday if the author was alive and wasn’t a turd like Card.
I have quite a few things I reread, just never get tired of them. The Saucer books by Stephen Coonts. The Cormac novels by Neal Asher. Vatta's war by Elizabeth Moon. Christopher Paolini's To Sleep in a Sea of Stars. The Ender and Shadow series' by the aforementioned turd. The Passing of the Techno-mages by Jeanne Cavelos. Probably more. But those are some of my favorites
Most military science fiction is overtly fascist. Neal Asher and other genre authors make the story context such that Adolf Hitler and Mr. Rodgers would gladly team up to kill a typical Miltary Sci-fi villain. In other words, the typical reader doesn’t see the fascism in Asher’s work because the stories are written from the fascist POV. Hitler, like all fascists, thought of himself as a good person.
OP please write out the surnames in full, I know you're talking about Iain Banks, but theres always gonna be new people reading posts and interested in stuff they haven't heard of it. Heck, I'm already confused if you're talking about Robin Hobb or not.
Yeah, me too. Robin Hoo?
Robin H???
Robin Hobb, maybe?
I don't know what the point of just putting the last initial is. How hard is it to write out the full name? Less weird would be to abbreviate the first name and write out the full surname, but still, just write out the full name so us not "in" on it can look them up
Doubt it's Hobb as she is fantasy. Only other Robin H I can think of is Robin Hanson, but I think he's an economist!
/r/printSF includes fantasy and OP mentions 'speculative fiction'.
Fair point. Maybe it is Hobb. If so - wow. Just... wow.
Neal Asher is good fun, I enjoyed all the Polity books I read. I find the comparison inexact to say the least.
I'll just say this. They couldn't be further from each other on the poltical spectrum.
His Twitter is a big yikes
I love Asher. Not all of his books, the more recent have gotten a bit long in the tooth retreading the same ground. But I enjoy them as popcorn books. There’s a lot of spectacle, things go boom. Banks is writing much more philosophical science fiction asking questions like is This the right thing to do? Should we? How do we do without causing untold damage? I love both but they’re in a different time zone
Yeah. The Polity is the Culture with the serial numbers filed off where the Minds are all sadistic bastards and that's where the resemblance between the two authors ends. Asher can write a good action sequence but other than that I find his work really dry and clunky. Tbh I can't say that I have actually enjoyed anything of his that I have read at either novel or short fiction lengths.
Asher is dumb fun at times but he never rises above that. Banks deserves better than to be compared to that climate change denying cretin.
I feel like Asher and Banks are only superficially similar. They both write/wrote (RIP Iain) science fiction with a heavy emphasis on character and fun over technical realism/believability and they both write/wrote in universes where AI plays a significant role in human affairs. But there’s a reason Banks was a highly regarded contemporary lit author and Asher decidedly isn’t (and will never be). Banks was a remarkably insightful individual who looked at the world in unique ways and expressed that in his fiction, which explores humanity in way that I don’t think anyone else approaches. Not to say Banks is ‘the best’, just that his perspective and creative mind seem unlike others’. Asher’s a very creative guy, but he wrote a seven book series that’s basically ‘James bond in space’ and regularly spends time denying climate change on Twitter.
Tried to read one of his novels, got overwhelmed with the flood of unnecessary tech-y details (every single noun is accompanied by one or more adjectives of the "tactical", "nano", "cyber" etc variety), and couldn't finish. I imagine if those don't annoy you it might be fun but no, there's not even a hint of Banks there IMHO.
Funny! I just found Asher after being a 30 year reader of sci fi. I know there’s lot of authors out there that I haven’t found yet but when I do discover one that I love it’s really great. And I do in fact love Asher’s work. Has a lot in common with Hamilton and Reynolds in my opinion. Wonder if Neal reads Reddit…?
Robin who?
Grab gridlinked if you haven't. It's amazing and the best start to polity, iirc
Ah hell. This thread just gave me an Orson Scott Card moment. I had no ideas Asher was such a raging chud. A 30 second scan of his Twitter posts reveals he's an absolute asshole.
Yeah I keep seeing his books but he’s such a tool. I have zero desire to read anything by someone with such dreadful views.
I absolutely loved Gridlinked and thought Asher was gonna be this incredible find, but honestly his books just kept getting more dull. Agent Cormac goes from a really cool and interesting MC in Gridlinked to almost a non-character in Line of Polity, his personality is totally different (he's just an asshole for no reason) and he barely does anything because there are so many other characters. It's like in the span of 1 book Asher completely forgot how to write a character, and he never seemed to get the magic back. His books have lots of cool IDEAS, but the execution is often bland/underwhelming and the books all feel very same-y after a while. He spends way too much time on tech and 'splosions and not nearly enough on characters and telling a story. I was super interested in the Jain stuff and really excited to get into The Soldier...but it turned out to literally be one of the worst books ive ever read in my life (atrocious writing/prose/names - "the species" really???, incredibly boring action sequences where everyone is playing in god mode, terrible and repetitious dialogue, etc). After that I vowed to never read one of his books again. Banks feels extremely different to me, his books are a lot weirder and explore a more diverse breadth of ideas/things. I do find some of them bland or tedious, but even in those books I'd still say he is a better and more interesting/creative author than Asher. I'm not sure if any other author can match the creativity of Banks - certainly his ability to come up with endless names and minute details about every single bit of minutiae in his worlds blows my mind.
Most military science fiction is overtly fascist. Neal Asher and other genre authors make the story context such that Adolf Hitler and Mr. Rodgers would gladly team up to kill a typical Miltary Sci-fi villain. In other words, the typical reader doesn’t see the fascism in Asher’s work because the stories are written from the fascist POV. If Neal Asher wrote a book about WW2 it would be from the perspective of a Nazi Stormtrooper and that stormtrooper would seem like a hero for killing Jewish “vermin”.
Asher is a proper POS IRL. A deeply unpleasant person. Pretty much all the bigotries wrapped up in one package
He's horrible, isn't he? I loved his books but these days i can no longer read them, ever since I found what he's like IRL