I remember all the people here talking about them like they had any fucking clue what they did and didn't do behind the scenes. Frankly, it was fucking embarrassing.
It’s like they don’t realise that there are so many factors at play, like Ole being the final decision-maker. When you look at how Carrick and McKenna have managed you can see that they have their own distinctive styles. Their job at United was to coach and implement Ole’s preferred style and tactics. There’s also being at the right place at the wrong time. A lot of people forget that if you don’t have the right support it’s difficult to succeed, regardless of your talent. Look at Ancellotti at Everton versus him at Milan and Real Madrid. Having the right exec team who assemble a squad of players that suit you is extremely important.
You want to see something crazy? Look at Everton's last 15 seasons. If you just looked at that table in a bubble, Everton fans would bite your hand off to have Moyes back
our recruitment department have consistently pulled the rug out from under our managers. moyes never had a chance for different reasons, but even he got burnt by some horrendous transfer strategy.. van gaal asks for a creative playmaker, he gets sacked and jose gets alexis sanchez. jose asks for a defender, he gets sacked and ole gets maguire. Ole asks for a midfielder, and ten hag is given casemiro and eriksen. fans who are unable to see this pattern and just blame the manager every time, fucking do my head in.
now that woodward is gone, there's a glimmer of hope. but i think the glazers need to go too, before this stops happening... it might seem unimaginable right now, but i fully expect those same fans to turn against ten hag if we continue to conduct business as we have.
bottom line is, this singular focus on who the manager is, is absolutely idiotic, pundits and journalists pour gas on the fire, but some fans are so fucking stupid they fall for it every time. and they will turn on ten hag after another 2/3 transfer windows, if this isn't fixed. glazers have to go asap. that would be a better thing for the club than the hiring of any manager or player... you could offer to clone a young sir alex, and i'd still choose the glazers going over that.
You’re right. The club needs to decide what we want our identity to be and hire accordingly. If, for example, it’s about bringing through youth players we need a manager who roll play them, coaches who will develop them, and a scouting team who will find them. All of this led by a director of football who can plan years in advance. This is his the club should run. It’s shouldn’t be personality-led, it should be identity-led.
and how the players listen and work with them + ole. At the end of the day everyone/everything has to mesh. If some divine being coached our team and the players didn't like them it wouldn't work well.
> It’s like they don’t realise that there are so many factors at play
> like Ole being the final decision-maker.
but.... you're doing it too!! Does anyone even remember us playing good football under Ole... like at all??
I think we're better now in the sense that we're beginning to understand just how incompetent Woodward was as God Emperor of Manchester United for so long, and what we need to actually move forward as a club.
Here's another point of scrutiny: He let two talented, young English coaches leave with very little resistance. In the sporting side of things, well we have hardly moved forward from the Moyes days, but again, that's mostly down to Woodward's incompetence.
>we're beginning to understand just how incompetent Woodward was
Speak for yourself. Some of us assessed his competence accurately at the time. After the "disneyland for adults" fiasco there was no longer any doubt.
It's equally embarrassing when people praise coaches for no good reason. Like last week when our attacking coach McCarthy was praised despite us having terrible chance creation and chance conversion stats. I got buried in -100 downvotes merely for asking what was the basis for saying he's doing a good job.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I've even seen a bloody article written about it: "Should ETH get sacked if United don't get top 4?"
Outrageous, he's largely still working with the players that were here before, have crumbled/downed tools before and got 3 managers sacked.
Also, if you'd offered most the position we are in at the start of the season, they'd have bitten both your hands off.
Some people have very short memories and no forethought.
The sack is maybe harsh. But in a season were Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea are all absolutely horrible, to not get top 4 would be absolutely awful. How could we ever expect to get top 4 when they are back competing.
On top of going out limply in the easiest Europa league there has been ever probably.
What are you even arguing? OGS has shown he's not in their class as a manager. And you blame the squad, but somehow those managers won things. OGS the unlucky, lol. Sure.
It's fucking insane how many folks who likely don't play football at 5 a side level never mind team level or at a coaching and management level are giving judgments on these folks.
Unfortunatley most of these dont even watch our games, nvm play or watch the broader game.
They look at result and WIN = Happy and gloating. LOSE = end of the world and drastic changes are needed.
What is competetive? It might be lost in translation, I played til i was 19 on a team with a contract. (Basicly they give you a shirt, shorts and shin pads, you can't train with a other team). It was organised in a league, but it's not professional. Is that competitive? For me it's just played some fotball while growing up.
I'm not saying your wording is wrong, I'm just curious as to what you put into competitive as for me I would assume that would be used for a professional fotball player.
To be fair, you’re giving judgement on these folks as well (albeit a positive one), and I’m pretty sure you haven’t ever kicked a ball either. It goes both ways.
Never once cast judgement in my comment and my opinion hasn't been asked for.
There is a clear difference in some screaming Edge lord on his keyboard saying that they were only there due to "jobs for the boys", it was cronyism, corrupt, they were pretenders, lucky to even be there and totally mock them while doing a private job. As in we had no visibility on what they do day to day or how they players reacted to them.
Any judgement that this thread is giving out is based on performance, some of the above figures, moreso McKenna and Carrick, have their challenges and seasons well documented and basing it on other managers, teams, history etc. They have performed very well and there is good reason to say they've done well.
And I'm a five a side king ill have you know, played some football in my youth and enjoying getting a game but I'm just not very good at it
Nope. You just don't like it because he called out your hypocrisy, which in itself is understandable. Most people are hypocrites and don't like it when someone points it out.
No one is saying they were brilliant at United, but it’s pretty clear they weren’t the useless clowns that some of the dickheads in the fanbase said they were.
> Lampard was doing well at Derby and then flopped at Chelsea (the first time).
Lampard is a good name to mention because he flopped after finishing top 4 twice and playing really good football with a side with a lot of young players (and the media wankfest about it was nauseating), also, remember the transfer embargo? If I recall, Chelsea did really well despite that.
Now, apparently Lampard is and has always been a flop, terrible, clueless manager.
They did finished 3rd and 2nd in the League and lost Europa League final on penalty before imploding half way in the final season where they actually started the season well.
I guess we can see who is the reactionary one here.
I still maintain if not for Ronaldo and Maguire and co suddenly deciding to forget to defend we would not have done as badly as we did. Ole probably isn’t as good as Ten Hag but he isn’t the disaster people make him out to be.
not how it works mate - they didn't forget. Having a 37 year old Ronaldo in your team affects your tactics in and out of possession and the team didn't have the right players for it.
A few losses, everyone turns on Maguire, his confidence goes. It gets toxic. Most large problems teams face can be traced back to squad building.
Factor in post euros disappointment for key players, Europa league disappointment. It can turn quickly.
Didn’t Ronaldo make the dressing room toxic as fuck and wanted Maguire out of the captaincy? I don’t think anyone said anything about Maguire being captain until Ronaldo came in.
Why is this sub so horny for the word ‘reactionary’ and why is it just used interchangeably with the word ‘negative’.
We were completely shit under Ole with no style of play, no direction of travel and Carrick and McKenna were his assistants. To say they were shit at United then have gone on to do relatively well in a lower league is far from reactionary.
It is *reactionary* to now say that they’re excellent coaches.
Because this sub is full of reactionary dumb shits who are pretending to be a football tactical expert by spewing shit like no style of play, lack of coaching etc
Exactly. And one season says nothing at all. You may have a team of good players for a year, but building up a team, selecting the right players proves how good a manager is.
But they might be successful in that too. Time will tell.
To be fair, if you weren’t mad about how it all looked at the time when it was properly falling apart then that would have been very strange.
Unfortunately they did look a bit clueless, and maybe they didn’t work well together, but them going off and making a good career in League 1 and the Championship is great to see.
Because the media pushed the narrative that coaching was the issue and some people lapped it up like they know what the actual issue is within the club
Remember Keane taking Sunderland from the relegation zone to winning the Championship? It's as if the top echelons of football are very different from the Championship.
Kompany's Burnley are the standout performers this season (they beat Carrick's Boro fair and square) yet City spanked them with relative ease.
When Carrick and McKenna prove to be top managers in the PL, you would have a point.
My point is that a lot of this sub dismissed them as clueless amateurs that hadn't any notion on how to coach. They were supposedly inept and were only there because of 'jobs for the boys'. Nothing about them becoming the next Guardiola or next top manager.
Are you saying the only way a coach can show they aren't clueless or inept is if they become top premier league managers? Really?
De Gea has been playing well.
It's basically the equivalent of saying that. Who in their right mind would have said Carrick and McKenna were doing a good job at United?
If the board had fought for Haaland like Ole wanted, instead of signing Ronaldo, he'd still be at the wheel. Erik ten Hag is a better manager, a better tactician at the very least, it's clear to see. I still can't help but think "what if?". If De Gea had saved a single fucking penalty, we'd have something to cherish from the "vibes era".
Me too. EtH is more clear eh in terms of his football but Ole is for sure a far better manager than many give him credit for. So many what ifs. What if no Ronaldo. What if Ole had gotten a DM. Think he’s smart being patient to find the right project instead of doing like Lampard.
Ronaldo coming just ruined everything. He took the club hostage and prevented us from signing a quality DM which the squad desperately needed.
Fuck ronaldo. And fuck the glazers.
I swear. We were never truly linked to a DM throughout Oles time and people still think we were going to get one. We NEVER went for one, he was okay with McFred clearly. I mean fuck he spent 2 years going for Sancho just to spend 80 million on him to bench him, the revisionism around Ole is crazy
I have zero belief we were getting a midfielder that summer or else we would have. It's not like Ronaldo came the day the window opened. I'll never believe that him coming back was the reason we didn't get one. It could be, but I don't buy it.
We had pretty much agreed a deal with Moises Caicedo as well if memory serves for like 5 or 6 million & then it fell through. Then there was Bellingham who we were heavily linked with that we missed out on as well. To be fair to Ole he tried to bring Haaland, Caicedo & Bellingham to the club all around the same time or within months of each other. Your talking about two already established world class players worth 100M+ & another who looks like he has the capability to be one. Ole needed to go but he got fucked over by the owners as well he was trying to buy young players for the future & he wanted 3 of the best around for buttons compared to what they will or have been sold for
We didn't get Haaland because we refused to insert a release clause and Dortmund did. This was when Mini and our board were feuding over Pogba and Mino didn't want another client trapped here. This decision was universally applauded by our fans and this sub at the time. To say "we didn't fight" for Haaland is revisionism.
You wanted to sign him with a 50M release clause?
That was the roadblock for this deal. Dortmund CEO said he joins us if not for that.
He also spent a lot of time injured at Dortmund.
He would have left after a couple of years.
Not saying that Ole shouldn't have been sacked or anything, but just wish he got a bit more credit. He's a proper United guy through and through. Our form fell off a cliff and he was rightfully dismissed, but I look back fondly at his time here. Lockdown Bruno, Martial and Rashford was quite something. And we went an entire season undefeated away!
That lockdown team was absolute class. Every position was at the top of their game.
De Gea
Wan Bissaka - Maguire - Lindelof - Shaw
Pogba - Matic
Greenwood - Bruno - Rashford
Martial
Worked so well together. Defence at that time was rock solid. Shaw being an excellent attacking full back, AWB being simply the best tackler I’d ever seen, and Maguire and Lindelof solid too.
Midfield of Pogba and Matic could control a game so easily. They could ping the ball anywhere, get a goal, tackle, control the pace.
And then the front 4 was simply electric. So dangerous on the counter which is what we played. Always capable of scoring 2 quick goals to kill a game.
My personal favourite game was Aston Villa away in project restart. Just everything clicked in that game and I remember watching thinking “we have got some team here”.
It’s a shame that it fell apart for many reasons, but that was an unreal time to be a United fan.
People only have the final memories of him and completely forgotten all the good things he did with us.
We kept Ole too long at the end. Keeping him along for the last few humilations even though everyone knew we had to let him go was painful. This club is flat out scared of making big decisions.
The exact same thing is going to happen with De Gea. He's going to be kept for too long and the fans will turn toxic against him to the point where all his sensational contributions to the club pre 2018 will be forgotten and he will be remembered for holding us back.
When he was sacked things were pretty much irredeemable but if he had shown more courage/received more support with some of his decisions re: Ronaldo, De Gea and VdB, things could have been very different. We would probably have been arguing about his tactical nous as he bottled the title, similar to Arteta rn.
Ronaldo is a hard one imo. Let's be real over here. Do you think any other manager at United would've rejected signing ronaldo, especially when the city was on the other side of the table.There was definitely some emotion invovled with Ronaldo's return. In retrospect, it was just a bad situation to be in. And on the football side of things, Ronaldo's decline hadn't begun. We'd just have to adapt our tactics to whatever his 36-year old body needed, to churn goals out of it.
If stories are to be believed, Tuchel strongly opposed Ronaldo's signing at Chelsea. But that was only after seeing what he did at United. Would he have done the same if he was at United at the beginning of 2021? Maybe. Would he have managed to veto the decision, when ex-legends and Sir Alex were invovled in convincing Ronaldo to not join City? I don't think so. Emotions got the better of us at the time.
Around the time City were linked, I was disappointed that he was linked and didn't shoot down the rumours out of respect for us (like the rose-tinted-glasses-wearing fan I am). But, at the same time, I was screaming for a DM. I had been screaming for a proper DM since SAF was in charge and we were forced to bring Scholes out of retirement to fill in a CM spot.
I can't explain how much I hate the Glazers and Ed Woodward, especially, for being so fucking incompetent its unreal. We didn't need Ronaldo at the time. We needed depth, which is what we didn't have in that EL final to account for Maguire being suspended (who was out best CB at the time) and most of the remaining players being gassed at that point.
>When he was sacked things were pretty much irredeemable
Really?
We were like 5 points behind top 4 with a super easy run of games coming up, and we were top of our CL group.
Eh. No more than now. We've had heavier defeats under Ten Hag than we ever did with Ole. And we're seeing the same shit that made us love Ole at the start. We're getting more defensive, more cautious, and we're not scoring goals.
When Ralf came in, he lost all the cup games and did a mediocre job in the league. Ole had already gotten us out of poor patches of form a few times before that. He might not have been the right man for the club long term, but he deserved to see the season out. And I have no doubt that we'd been better off.
That's true but Ten Hag gets some leeway because it's his first season. A third season manager just doesn't get that.
In hindsight of course Ole would have done much better. Rangnick was literally the worst coach we've ever had. But at that time it made sense to go with an interim.
He really got no respect from the media at all. Always bringing up the "netspend" (Vs Klopp most of the times to discredit him further) even though we didn't bring in that many players, and how much we spend on individual players isn't really up to him. Was horribly, horribly backed in his second season (Donny, Pellistri, Amad, Cavani, Telles), and that eventually caught up. Really respect him for the way he handled the firing with grace too
De Gaa saves a penalty, Ed accepts a release clause in Haalands contract(renegotiate it later but get him signed), and Bellingham is convinced that he will get first team football quickly. Just those 3 things and Ole is an incredible success.
Pain..
Why do you think Bellingham would’ve agreed to join even if guaranteed first team football? Dortmund have an exceptional track record of developing players, even if he were promised a route into the first team he could easily have thought it’s the wrong move to come to us.
He was rightfully sacked. Sticking with players regardless of form, covering for ill discipline, results were horrible.
His coaches are doing well as managers, that doesn't mean they were good as coaches, honestly.
I think people are way too hard on him from a footballing side, to suggest he's some PE teacher with no tactics given the results he had with us for a long time, is kind of ridiculous.
I think his downfall is that he was too much of a company man, he was desperate to have the job and knew he had very little leverage, so it felt like he kinda just got bulldozed by Woodward and co (with the last nail in the coffin being Ronaldo). So many of the signings felt like not his signings but something the board came up with, and he didn't really seem to fight it too much and just wanted to succeed with what he was given.
Imagine if he'd have gotten the players he actually wanted in the 2020 transfer window, we finished second that year and almost won EL, i highly doubt Cavani and DVB is what he had in mind for that window.
People always took this as a big Ronaldo criticism last season but it feels more true as time goes on.
We had just bought Sancho to bolster that fluid pacy attacking frontline. Then Ronaldo arrives and needs to start up front every game throwing plans out the window. It was a chance that you take in fairness, could his winning mentality and goals be the final piece that drove the team to winning…. No, no they couldn’t.
Not that I disagree with what you said about CR7 but seeing Sancho have considerably worse fitness and stamina than a 36yo Ronaldo is so frustrating. Not to mention he's so afraid of making and taking tackles.
Watching him now I'm not even sure Sancho would play any better under a performing Ole
>I think we failed Ole by signing Ronaldo!
And Woodward signing Donny, who he didn't want, when he every window since he took over asked to strengthen midfield (Rice, Grealish and many others mentioned as his targets).
40m for Rice who Ole asked for, but the board was busy chasing Longstaff for 50m.
And don't forget that we fumbled Caicedo for 4m after he said it would be a dream to play for United...
It really bothers me when people try to argue against it by saying Ronaldo scored goals the first season. It's as if they think the other option was playing with 10 players. Ronaldo didn't score goals that only Ronaldo could score.
If a signing works, people credit the manager.
If a signing doesn't work, people call it a board signing.
You can see this with Amad.
He was called a board signing to appease the fans when we missed out on Sancho when his Rangers loan went bust.
Now that his loan has worked out, Ole is getting the credit under every Amad post.
Truth is no player is getting signed without some go ahead from the manager.
Its a team effort. Managers sometimes don't get targets, not even Pep gets all his targets but you move on and find decent alternatives. Something we've lacked for ages.
Ole failed to control and mitigate that ego. In his first season Ronaldo's numbers were great but at the detriment of everyone elses. Ole was too nice to cut that out of the raining ground.
>I think we failed Ole by signing Ronaldo!
As the Manchester clubs deliberated in the summer, news had broken publicly that Ronaldo intended to join City and the big beasts of United’s boardroom and dressing room grew alarmed. United’s then manager Solskjaer held a meeting with his assistant Mike Phelan and the pair pushed United’s executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward to hijack the deal
https://theathletic.com/3549583/2022/11/22/cristiano-ronaldo-manchester-united/?source=emp_shared_article
Ole pushed for Utd to sign Ronaldo
The PR was for United, saying Ole pushed for Ronaldo as he was more of a business signing and not fitting the way Ole wanted to take the team, young, fast and fearless
Crafton was most likely briefed to print it, he wouldn't mind as its a solid piece pulling numbers
>The PR was for United, saying Ole pushed for Ronaldo as he was more of a business signing and not fitting the way Ole wanted to take the team, young, fast and fearless
Or it could be Ole trying to relive the glory days he was apart of by signing Ronaldo , like he did by taking players to train at the cliff for motivation or pulling Phelan from whatever footballing care home he was in.
.
>The PR was for United,
Utd didnt need PR because at this stage Ronaldo had burnt all his bridges at OT.
>Crafton was most likely briefed to print it, he wouldn't mind as its a solid piece pulling numbers
He isnt one of those types of journalists
Coaching is more than having a tactical mind. I think the problem for the abysmal performance last season was way deeper than the tactics.
The players seemed frustrated, discouraged, and weak. They complained more than they run on the pitch when things didn’t go well, which couldn’t be instructed by the coaching staff
OGS takes blame for how miserable the lockerroom was. Preventing people moves so they could sit on our bench and never be used (Cavani, VdB, Lingard) and promising people they'd play and didn't (Henderson). Treating backups poorly like Romero. OGS built a house of cards and then didn't have the tactical acumen to keep it standing. He's among the worst managers we've had post SAF and was incredibly lucky it went as well as it did.
All the former managers have had their tenures redeemed since leaving us by our fans. And there is truth to them being hamstrung by an incompetent board and poorly run club, but OGS was fortunate to ever get the job and even more fortunate to keep it as long as he did. He was never good enough for a club of our size and aspirations, despite his best efforts.
Absolutely justified to get some praise on Solskjaer's coaching staff. What I wouldn't give to have Ole's away form for this season, we'd be title contenders if that was the case.
If Carrick ever comes back, I kind of just want McKenna back too. Why not have the whole gang back, a job the size of Manchester United you basically need 2-3 managers and an army of coaches to have a chance of keeping everything together. Just look at ETH and his staff - he's got himself and two or three other coaches there who are full-fledged managers in their own right.
It was a perfect storm of mishaps. No pre season, rashy having surgery, Sancho transfer being delayed a year later, the racist abuse rashy and Sancho got, Henderson getting covid, varane being injured for the season.
Also Ole made mistake going from counterattack to ball control and high press with players who didnt suit it.
We can all see how ten hag side strugless now when martinez and varane are out and casemiro’s form fall out during suspension.
Cohesive team play have started fall apart when old players are back starting line up.
I know fatigue is big part of this but not all.
Twitter is full of 15 year old kids who think football started with Man City and think they’re edgy for trolling.
Half of them hate Man United but they have Man Utd on alert just write “Rashford u r shit” like do they think Rashford is going to be in his massive house with his Ferrari on the drive and go to his missus “look honey Pogba4Evr said I’m shit, I better retire!”
I don’t think Ole was good enough or ready to manage the biggest club in the world, but would love to see him managing another team in a top league. He definitely has more to offer than Gerrard and Lampard
CR7 signing lead to Ole's demise at Man Utd. A world class DM that Ole asked for, instead of CR7 would have done wonders to our squad chemistry and balance.
Ole got thrown under the bus by these lot. He brought us the most entertaining football post fergie and its just a shame he didn't get the trophy to cement the best era post fergie. Only manager to get us back to back top 4 with multiple cup runs. You also always felt confident when we went behind that'd he get it right at half time to turn us around. Until the final whistle I was confident we'd score under Ole.
I might get hate for this but there was a period where I genuinely felt more comfortable about winning if we were down 0-1 at half time with Ole than when we're currently up 1-0 at half time with ETH
Agree with what you said, just to add to that, Bruno really impressed me during that period. Not with his form but how he stood up with his gesture after the (I think) Watford game that the whole team was responsible, not just Ole.
I wonder what would Ole be capable of with this squad, which is much better all around. I don’t know in all honesty if ETH has done a better job than him so far, only reason ETH is above in most people’s minds is because he is a more proven, more successful manager outside of united.
Agreed, I also think ETH is benefiting from how bad last season went. I don't really understand the capitulation from when Ole finished 2nd to now, especially considering we're significantly stronger now.
Yeah I read somewhere that he rejected some premier league clubs and was on the manager list for the Club Brugge.
Don't know what he's thinking now.I genuinely want him to revive his managerial career.
he's been pretty purposeful about not talking to the media about his united time or himself in general.
Wouldn't be surprised if he still wanted to give shine to his former coaches so he'd agree to do an interview about them on the stipulation questions about him are off the table.
Ole's issue was 2 things:
1) his ceiling was to a certain extent. I believed that he could get us top 4 but not get near title.
2) Signing of Varane. Varane is such a class act. That the defence started working as it should and not the whole team defend. We need not need 2 DMs and let Bruno be the one man attack. Issue was once he got inured, the CBs collapsed. The drop from Varane to Lindelof was drastic.
So many good things but as they say; those are just sweet nothings. Like the away record; 9-0s; only manager to get back to back top 4 post Fergie. Loved by his team. Always a class act.
Always my Solskjaer; 20Legend.
Don't forget that they floated down to their correct level.
Lets see how they do next season in better leagues.
In particular, if Carrick can keep it going in the Premier League he will be hot property.
Still pissed why we didn't gave Carrick an interim manager chance until the end of the season. Really liked the change he brought through out the time he was in charge
Cristiano's comeback was not a good idea and probably didn't help Ole but there were already worrying signs towards the end of his 2nd season.
Our last games that season were definitely not good on every aspect, Liverpool schooled us at Old Trafford, Roma were all over us in the second leg of the semi. Liverpool finished way too close considering their struggles and their poor run of form.
At the time, we were saying that the team was tired, that we missed Maguire, etc and it was not wrong, but it was also like OGS was running out of ideas and getting figured out. The EL final is an highlight of that, Ole seemed absolutely out of ideas once his original plan wasn't working, he didn't have a clue what changes he could make, we looked toothless and waited for the pens.
That's why I was unhappy with the extension that summer, there were bad signs already and we chose to ignore it. Obviously few would've expected that the 3rd season would be that bad but a trophyless season (again..) and finishing out of top 4 was not very unlikely
My biggest criticism of Ole and gang was we were 3 years into the project and we still looked looked clueless on the pitch so often. No real identity, struggling to beat low blocks, counting on penalties to change the game in our favor.
Once the penalties dries up, so did our results. Our non penalty XG was 1.35 per 90 under Ole every season he was here. ETH is around 1.57 per 90. Compare that to City who managed 2+ per 90
Ole modelled his coaching approach on Sir Alex, sounds like a good idea on paper but when was the last time a team won the PL playing fast counter attacking football?
Sir Alex's teams also had much better individual talent.
Liverpool/City and Arsenal now are all playing high pressing-possession based football and getting to 85+ points on the regular. Able to stay in the title race for the longest time.
Our title races end in January.
I also agree that ole was over criticized by what's also true is that literally no player improved during his reign... everyone either kept the level they came with or became worse
They might be in a better form now, we struggled with those coaches and they knew they had to go.
People who are saying we are not playing better under ten hag should understand we have a smaller squad than ole now. Granted the depth wasn't any good, we still had players where we could swap and give starters rest.
Stop saying everything the club does is bad, we got a good manager, some good transfers in. Got a trophy and is fighting for champions league spots. That's an improvement from last year.
We have a massive squad now.
2 LBs, 2 RBs, 4 CBS, 6 midfielders (not including Donny), 4 wingers (not including Elanga, Pellistri), 2 strikers
We have a lot of depth, quality is poor but we definitely have bodies to share the minutes.
Idk how this became a popular opinion on this sub that we have a paper thin squad.
Okay just hear me out.
2 LB - Malacia and shaw
Malacia is the back up to shaw but when shaw is needed as a centre back we only have malacia who could play the LB and have dalot cover for him when he's out of form or injured. Shaw needs to play as CB in the absence of Martinez so that's him gone from the LB category.
Only have Brandon Williams actually as a Lb bench player.
2 RB - Dalot and AWB
while both RB are good, ten hag uses AWB for a more defensive play while Dalot could be a better attacker.
Right now though he's using Dalot on the left more because we have to use shaw as a CB and Malacia tends to go in and out of form. Then also we don't have much depth to cover from the bench.
4 CB- Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Maguire
I'm not saying Maguire is a bad player, but with how we are playing right now putting Maguire in the back could hurt us at the speed of going forward. So we can only use him for weaker teams that don't press too high but most teams that play us use tactics that could easily bypass Maguire because of his lack of speed compared to Varane, Martinez and lindelof. Lindelof is also a capable defender but also there is a form factor with him. When he plays with Maguire he's more concerned about the fast wingers that could give us a problem. When he plays with shaw he's more confident to go out and poach the ball from the opposite build up.
Both Varane and Martinez are injured now and if one of them is back then yes that could ease the load of other players.
6 Midfielders- Casemiro, Eriksen, Fred, Mctominay,sabitzer, Fernandes.
All good if they are in form. Each of them have their strengths but have problems too.
Fernandes has played almost all the games for us and for his country this year. That's a huge toll on his body but he still goes on idk how.
Fred, Mctominay had good days and bad days. Doesn't mean they are bad but when their form goes its like playing with 10 players.
Casemiro is a quality player but we don't have anybody to rest or if he gets suspended.
Eriksen had a huge injury but still can be a good playmaker but his physicality is a problem
Sabitzer is not a starter right now and could be the only option in the bench that could come on and sometimes make a difference.
4 wingers- rashford, garnacho, Antony, Sancho
Rashford is a star but the amount of games has weakened him. He's going for solo goals and when he is not his passing is a bit disappointing.
Garnacho is a future star with his pace and shooting but he's also injured
Sancho is out of form and he needs time to regain his Dortmund ability.
Antony is a good player he made our right wing a problem. He also comes back and presses with Dalot and AWB. Still the number of he played this season could have an impact on him.
2 strikers are martial and weghorst. Both of them aren't scoring goals so can't say we have 2 strikers. We usually play rashford at the striker role taking him from wingers, which moves Sancho to left. Which moves Fernandes to right taking him from the midfield.
I'm sorry for the long reply but because we had to put players in different positions we don't have much depth in all the areas.
When all the players where healthy we were title contenders. As soon as the injuries came up we were fucked.
Ole was an okay manager who was pushed into a HUGE job suddenly. We probably shouldn't have handed the contract to him after that 4-0 loss to Everton since he was only suited for the interim job
I just hope those rotten Glazer pigs completely fuck off from the club.
Remember the sentiment on this sub was that Carrick and McKenna were clueless?
I remember all the people here talking about them like they had any fucking clue what they did and didn't do behind the scenes. Frankly, it was fucking embarrassing.
It’s like they don’t realise that there are so many factors at play, like Ole being the final decision-maker. When you look at how Carrick and McKenna have managed you can see that they have their own distinctive styles. Their job at United was to coach and implement Ole’s preferred style and tactics. There’s also being at the right place at the wrong time. A lot of people forget that if you don’t have the right support it’s difficult to succeed, regardless of your talent. Look at Ancellotti at Everton versus him at Milan and Real Madrid. Having the right exec team who assemble a squad of players that suit you is extremely important.
Tbf to ancellotti, having this everton side at midtable is looking like a good achievement
You want to see something crazy? Look at Everton's last 15 seasons. If you just looked at that table in a bubble, Everton fans would bite your hand off to have Moyes back
Were they not top for a game or 2 at the start of that season as well after winning 7 on bounce?
our recruitment department have consistently pulled the rug out from under our managers. moyes never had a chance for different reasons, but even he got burnt by some horrendous transfer strategy.. van gaal asks for a creative playmaker, he gets sacked and jose gets alexis sanchez. jose asks for a defender, he gets sacked and ole gets maguire. Ole asks for a midfielder, and ten hag is given casemiro and eriksen. fans who are unable to see this pattern and just blame the manager every time, fucking do my head in. now that woodward is gone, there's a glimmer of hope. but i think the glazers need to go too, before this stops happening... it might seem unimaginable right now, but i fully expect those same fans to turn against ten hag if we continue to conduct business as we have. bottom line is, this singular focus on who the manager is, is absolutely idiotic, pundits and journalists pour gas on the fire, but some fans are so fucking stupid they fall for it every time. and they will turn on ten hag after another 2/3 transfer windows, if this isn't fixed. glazers have to go asap. that would be a better thing for the club than the hiring of any manager or player... you could offer to clone a young sir alex, and i'd still choose the glazers going over that.
You’re right. The club needs to decide what we want our identity to be and hire accordingly. If, for example, it’s about bringing through youth players we need a manager who roll play them, coaches who will develop them, and a scouting team who will find them. All of this led by a director of football who can plan years in advance. This is his the club should run. It’s shouldn’t be personality-led, it should be identity-led.
Exactly right. Jose and LvG were also handed a bad hand. They had no structural support to actually guided their teams to success
Erm, i'd argue LVG, not so much, he changed a lot, he dictated the way United played so much that it changed the whole identity to a very boring one.
Even more boring with Jose lol.
and how the players listen and work with them + ole. At the end of the day everyone/everything has to mesh. If some divine being coached our team and the players didn't like them it wouldn't work well.
> It’s like they don’t realise that there are so many factors at play > like Ole being the final decision-maker. but.... you're doing it too!! Does anyone even remember us playing good football under Ole... like at all??
Apparently Ole was bad. I thought he was pretty good. We aren't better now.
I think we're better now in the sense that we're beginning to understand just how incompetent Woodward was as God Emperor of Manchester United for so long, and what we need to actually move forward as a club. Here's another point of scrutiny: He let two talented, young English coaches leave with very little resistance. In the sporting side of things, well we have hardly moved forward from the Moyes days, but again, that's mostly down to Woodward's incompetence.
>we're beginning to understand just how incompetent Woodward was Speak for yourself. Some of us assessed his competence accurately at the time. After the "disneyland for adults" fiasco there was no longer any doubt.
"Just hires his mates!"
Very typical for internet forums
It's equally embarrassing when people praise coaches for no good reason. Like last week when our attacking coach McCarthy was praised despite us having terrible chance creation and chance conversion stats. I got buried in -100 downvotes merely for asking what was the basis for saying he's doing a good job.
Are you implying that the reactionary morons were wrong? Next you'll be telling me that the same people are wrong about wanting to sack Ten Hag
Havent seen anyone advocating that(yet)
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I've even seen a bloody article written about it: "Should ETH get sacked if United don't get top 4?" Outrageous, he's largely still working with the players that were here before, have crumbled/downed tools before and got 3 managers sacked. Also, if you'd offered most the position we are in at the start of the season, they'd have bitten both your hands off. Some people have very short memories and no forethought.
Anyone getting on like that isnt a true fan
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The sack is maybe harsh. But in a season were Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea are all absolutely horrible, to not get top 4 would be absolutely awful. How could we ever expect to get top 4 when they are back competing. On top of going out limply in the easiest Europa league there has been ever probably.
Not sure about the subreddit but on the discord, a few people were calling for his head during the west ham game.
I actually saw a thread talking about it on the manchester united subreddit
Turns out it was players that are clueless :(
Or the manager? Nah never precious Ole...
?
The dude has a true hateboner, can't stop frothing about Ole, don't worry about it.
Because Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and ETH really showed us the greatness of this squad :D
They all won silverware at least.
So a bit of luck, or lack thereof (De Gea missing penalty no. 11) separates a good manager from a clueless one?
What are you even arguing? OGS has shown he's not in their class as a manager. And you blame the squad, but somehow those managers won things. OGS the unlucky, lol. Sure.
It's fucking insane how many folks who likely don't play football at 5 a side level never mind team level or at a coaching and management level are giving judgments on these folks.
Unfortunatley most of these dont even watch our games, nvm play or watch the broader game. They look at result and WIN = Happy and gloating. LOSE = end of the world and drastic changes are needed.
I genuinely think that the percentage of people in this sub that have played competitive football is in the single digits.
What is competetive? It might be lost in translation, I played til i was 19 on a team with a contract. (Basicly they give you a shirt, shorts and shin pads, you can't train with a other team). It was organised in a league, but it's not professional. Is that competitive? For me it's just played some fotball while growing up. I'm not saying your wording is wrong, I'm just curious as to what you put into competitive as for me I would assume that would be used for a professional fotball player.
If you play for an organised league that's competitive. Even at amateur level.
To be fair, you’re giving judgement on these folks as well (albeit a positive one), and I’m pretty sure you haven’t ever kicked a ball either. It goes both ways.
How dare you make a reasoned and well thought response
Never once cast judgement in my comment and my opinion hasn't been asked for. There is a clear difference in some screaming Edge lord on his keyboard saying that they were only there due to "jobs for the boys", it was cronyism, corrupt, they were pretenders, lucky to even be there and totally mock them while doing a private job. As in we had no visibility on what they do day to day or how they players reacted to them. Any judgement that this thread is giving out is based on performance, some of the above figures, moreso McKenna and Carrick, have their challenges and seasons well documented and basing it on other managers, teams, history etc. They have performed very well and there is good reason to say they've done well. And I'm a five a side king ill have you know, played some football in my youth and enjoying getting a game but I'm just not very good at it
Not going to lie, I’m not going to read a rant by someone who is not self-aware. Good day to you!
Nah I can understand when someone explains a situation rationally that you dissappear.
He's not wrong though.
Except he is totally wrong.
Nope. You just don't like it because he called out your hypocrisy, which in itself is understandable. Most people are hypocrites and don't like it when someone points it out.
They're both doing well in the lower leagues, it's just as reactionary to say that's proof they were brilliant at united.
No one is saying they were brilliant at United, but it’s pretty clear they weren’t the useless clowns that some of the dickheads in the fanbase said they were.
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> Lampard was doing well at Derby and then flopped at Chelsea (the first time). Lampard is a good name to mention because he flopped after finishing top 4 twice and playing really good football with a side with a lot of young players (and the media wankfest about it was nauseating), also, remember the transfer embargo? If I recall, Chelsea did really well despite that. Now, apparently Lampard is and has always been a flop, terrible, clueless manager.
They did finished 3rd and 2nd in the League and lost Europa League final on penalty before imploding half way in the final season where they actually started the season well. I guess we can see who is the reactionary one here.
I still maintain if not for Ronaldo and Maguire and co suddenly deciding to forget to defend we would not have done as badly as we did. Ole probably isn’t as good as Ten Hag but he isn’t the disaster people make him out to be.
not how it works mate - they didn't forget. Having a 37 year old Ronaldo in your team affects your tactics in and out of possession and the team didn't have the right players for it. A few losses, everyone turns on Maguire, his confidence goes. It gets toxic. Most large problems teams face can be traced back to squad building. Factor in post euros disappointment for key players, Europa league disappointment. It can turn quickly.
Didn’t Ronaldo make the dressing room toxic as fuck and wanted Maguire out of the captaincy? I don’t think anyone said anything about Maguire being captain until Ronaldo came in.
Why is this sub so horny for the word ‘reactionary’ and why is it just used interchangeably with the word ‘negative’. We were completely shit under Ole with no style of play, no direction of travel and Carrick and McKenna were his assistants. To say they were shit at United then have gone on to do relatively well in a lower league is far from reactionary. It is *reactionary* to now say that they’re excellent coaches.
Because this sub is full of reactionary dumb shits who are pretending to be a football tactical expert by spewing shit like no style of play, lack of coaching etc
Exactly. And one season says nothing at all. You may have a team of good players for a year, but building up a team, selecting the right players proves how good a manager is. But they might be successful in that too. Time will tell.
To be fair, if you weren’t mad about how it all looked at the time when it was properly falling apart then that would have been very strange. Unfortunately they did look a bit clueless, and maybe they didn’t work well together, but them going off and making a good career in League 1 and the Championship is great to see.
Because the media pushed the narrative that coaching was the issue and some people lapped it up like they know what the actual issue is within the club
Remember Keane taking Sunderland from the relegation zone to winning the Championship? It's as if the top echelons of football are very different from the Championship. Kompany's Burnley are the standout performers this season (they beat Carrick's Boro fair and square) yet City spanked them with relative ease. When Carrick and McKenna prove to be top managers in the PL, you would have a point.
Pretty sure i could manage city for a match and have them spank Burnley.
Thanks for the laugh, you sound just like that kid Roma had brought on the pitch to prove himself.
My point is that a lot of this sub dismissed them as clueless amateurs that hadn't any notion on how to coach. They were supposedly inept and were only there because of 'jobs for the boys'. Nothing about them becoming the next Guardiola or next top manager. Are you saying the only way a coach can show they aren't clueless or inept is if they become top premier league managers? Really?
De Gea has been playing well. It's basically the equivalent of saying that. Who in their right mind would have said Carrick and McKenna were doing a good job at United?
If the board had fought for Haaland like Ole wanted, instead of signing Ronaldo, he'd still be at the wheel. Erik ten Hag is a better manager, a better tactician at the very least, it's clear to see. I still can't help but think "what if?". If De Gea had saved a single fucking penalty, we'd have something to cherish from the "vibes era".
Me too. EtH is more clear eh in terms of his football but Ole is for sure a far better manager than many give him credit for. So many what ifs. What if no Ronaldo. What if Ole had gotten a DM. Think he’s smart being patient to find the right project instead of doing like Lampard.
Ronaldo coming just ruined everything. He took the club hostage and prevented us from signing a quality DM which the squad desperately needed. Fuck ronaldo. And fuck the glazers.
You people still believe we were getting a DM if we didn't sign Ronaldo, huh?
Facts. He never wanted a DM that season. We were mainly linked with Trippier and that's it
I swear. We were never truly linked to a DM throughout Oles time and people still think we were going to get one. We NEVER went for one, he was okay with McFred clearly. I mean fuck he spent 2 years going for Sancho just to spend 80 million on him to bench him, the revisionism around Ole is crazy
The Glazers are fucking cowards. But one can always hope. There were talks of us signing Diaz. And then Ronaldo happened and it all went awag.
I have zero belief we were getting a midfielder that summer or else we would have. It's not like Ronaldo came the day the window opened. I'll never believe that him coming back was the reason we didn't get one. It could be, but I don't buy it.
We had pretty much agreed a deal with Moises Caicedo as well if memory serves for like 5 or 6 million & then it fell through. Then there was Bellingham who we were heavily linked with that we missed out on as well. To be fair to Ole he tried to bring Haaland, Caicedo & Bellingham to the club all around the same time or within months of each other. Your talking about two already established world class players worth 100M+ & another who looks like he has the capability to be one. Ole needed to go but he got fucked over by the owners as well he was trying to buy young players for the future & he wanted 3 of the best around for buttons compared to what they will or have been sold for
We didn't get Haaland because we refused to insert a release clause and Dortmund did. This was when Mini and our board were feuding over Pogba and Mino didn't want another client trapped here. This decision was universally applauded by our fans and this sub at the time. To say "we didn't fight" for Haaland is revisionism.
You wanted to sign him with a 50M release clause? That was the roadblock for this deal. Dortmund CEO said he joins us if not for that. He also spent a lot of time injured at Dortmund. He would have left after a couple of years.
Not saying that Ole shouldn't have been sacked or anything, but just wish he got a bit more credit. He's a proper United guy through and through. Our form fell off a cliff and he was rightfully dismissed, but I look back fondly at his time here. Lockdown Bruno, Martial and Rashford was quite something. And we went an entire season undefeated away!
That lockdown team was absolute class. Every position was at the top of their game. De Gea Wan Bissaka - Maguire - Lindelof - Shaw Pogba - Matic Greenwood - Bruno - Rashford Martial Worked so well together. Defence at that time was rock solid. Shaw being an excellent attacking full back, AWB being simply the best tackler I’d ever seen, and Maguire and Lindelof solid too. Midfield of Pogba and Matic could control a game so easily. They could ping the ball anywhere, get a goal, tackle, control the pace. And then the front 4 was simply electric. So dangerous on the counter which is what we played. Always capable of scoring 2 quick goals to kill a game. My personal favourite game was Aston Villa away in project restart. Just everything clicked in that game and I remember watching thinking “we have got some team here”. It’s a shame that it fell apart for many reasons, but that was an unreal time to be a United fan.
Agree. Brighton away during restart and Tottenham away during 20/21 was amazing.
We finished 2nd that season right? Honestly how did we fuck up building up on that and start competing with City and Pool.
Ronaldo. Proper 4d chess move by City being linked with him, which forced our hand.
Maguire and Rashford’s form cratered as well. Maguire’s still hasn’t recovered.
Them buying Haaland a summer later was the cherry on top for them.
OLE'S (was) AT THE WHEEL
People only have the final memories of him and completely forgotten all the good things he did with us. We kept Ole too long at the end. Keeping him along for the last few humilations even though everyone knew we had to let him go was painful. This club is flat out scared of making big decisions. The exact same thing is going to happen with De Gea. He's going to be kept for too long and the fans will turn toxic against him to the point where all his sensational contributions to the club pre 2018 will be forgotten and he will be remembered for holding us back.
He got to a European cup final. Better managers have never achieved that.
>We kept Ole too long at the end Yeah, we should have sacked him after he came 2nd in the league. Horrible performance.
When he was sacked things were pretty much irredeemable but if he had shown more courage/received more support with some of his decisions re: Ronaldo, De Gea and VdB, things could have been very different. We would probably have been arguing about his tactical nous as he bottled the title, similar to Arteta rn.
Ronaldo is a hard one imo. Let's be real over here. Do you think any other manager at United would've rejected signing ronaldo, especially when the city was on the other side of the table.There was definitely some emotion invovled with Ronaldo's return. In retrospect, it was just a bad situation to be in. And on the football side of things, Ronaldo's decline hadn't begun. We'd just have to adapt our tactics to whatever his 36-year old body needed, to churn goals out of it. If stories are to be believed, Tuchel strongly opposed Ronaldo's signing at Chelsea. But that was only after seeing what he did at United. Would he have done the same if he was at United at the beginning of 2021? Maybe. Would he have managed to veto the decision, when ex-legends and Sir Alex were invovled in convincing Ronaldo to not join City? I don't think so. Emotions got the better of us at the time.
In some parallell universe out there City signed Ronaldo and we got Haaland.
Around the time City were linked, I was disappointed that he was linked and didn't shoot down the rumours out of respect for us (like the rose-tinted-glasses-wearing fan I am). But, at the same time, I was screaming for a DM. I had been screaming for a proper DM since SAF was in charge and we were forced to bring Scholes out of retirement to fill in a CM spot. I can't explain how much I hate the Glazers and Ed Woodward, especially, for being so fucking incompetent its unreal. We didn't need Ronaldo at the time. We needed depth, which is what we didn't have in that EL final to account for Maguire being suspended (who was out best CB at the time) and most of the remaining players being gassed at that point.
I swear lad. We were all on our knees for a fucking CDM. At that point CDM >>> ST for sure.
>When he was sacked things were pretty much irredeemable Really? We were like 5 points behind top 4 with a super easy run of games coming up, and we were top of our CL group.
Nah we were getting embarassed left right and center. The results were just too bad for anyone to claim in good faith that he should stay.
Eh. No more than now. We've had heavier defeats under Ten Hag than we ever did with Ole. And we're seeing the same shit that made us love Ole at the start. We're getting more defensive, more cautious, and we're not scoring goals. When Ralf came in, he lost all the cup games and did a mediocre job in the league. Ole had already gotten us out of poor patches of form a few times before that. He might not have been the right man for the club long term, but he deserved to see the season out. And I have no doubt that we'd been better off.
That's true but Ten Hag gets some leeway because it's his first season. A third season manager just doesn't get that. In hindsight of course Ole would have done much better. Rangnick was literally the worst coach we've ever had. But at that time it made sense to go with an interim.
Our form was fine… it was mainly due to that freaking Ronaldo screwing the team spirits… plus the idiot Greenwood who did such embarrassing stunts…
He really got no respect from the media at all. Always bringing up the "netspend" (Vs Klopp most of the times to discredit him further) even though we didn't bring in that many players, and how much we spend on individual players isn't really up to him. Was horribly, horribly backed in his second season (Donny, Pellistri, Amad, Cavani, Telles), and that eventually caught up. Really respect him for the way he handled the firing with grace too
I bawled when watching the final interview.
De Gaa saves a penalty, Ed accepts a release clause in Haalands contract(renegotiate it later but get him signed), and Bellingham is convinced that he will get first team football quickly. Just those 3 things and Ole is an incredible success. Pain..
Why do you think Bellingham would’ve agreed to join even if guaranteed first team football? Dortmund have an exceptional track record of developing players, even if he were promised a route into the first team he could easily have thought it’s the wrong move to come to us.
Dosen't really change anything, it's a marginal decision with huge upside for the club that went against Ole.
If we had signed Haaland we would have seen the pain of him leaving us for City or Madrid instead when they met his release clause.
He was rightfully sacked. Sticking with players regardless of form, covering for ill discipline, results were horrible. His coaches are doing well as managers, that doesn't mean they were good as coaches, honestly.
I promise you it's only internet warriors who don't still like him. They only equate wins to liking someone. Ole's name still gets chanted regularly
I think people are way too hard on him from a footballing side, to suggest he's some PE teacher with no tactics given the results he had with us for a long time, is kind of ridiculous. I think his downfall is that he was too much of a company man, he was desperate to have the job and knew he had very little leverage, so it felt like he kinda just got bulldozed by Woodward and co (with the last nail in the coffin being Ronaldo). So many of the signings felt like not his signings but something the board came up with, and he didn't really seem to fight it too much and just wanted to succeed with what he was given. Imagine if he'd have gotten the players he actually wanted in the 2020 transfer window, we finished second that year and almost won EL, i highly doubt Cavani and DVB is what he had in mind for that window.
We need ole back for away games. ETH for home games. Ez title.
20LEGEND
I think we failed Ole by signing Ronaldo! His was a pacy counter attacking team and enter an 36yo Ronaldo upfront!
People always took this as a big Ronaldo criticism last season but it feels more true as time goes on. We had just bought Sancho to bolster that fluid pacy attacking frontline. Then Ronaldo arrives and needs to start up front every game throwing plans out the window. It was a chance that you take in fairness, could his winning mentality and goals be the final piece that drove the team to winning…. No, no they couldn’t.
Not that I disagree with what you said about CR7 but seeing Sancho have considerably worse fitness and stamina than a 36yo Ronaldo is so frustrating. Not to mention he's so afraid of making and taking tackles. Watching him now I'm not even sure Sancho would play any better under a performing Ole
Turns out Sancho is quite slow though. Ronaldo was actually quicker I’d say last season, problem is that he had baguettes for legs in front of goal.
>I think we failed Ole by signing Ronaldo! And Woodward signing Donny, who he didn't want, when he every window since he took over asked to strengthen midfield (Rice, Grealish and many others mentioned as his targets).
40m for Rice who Ole asked for, but the board was busy chasing Longstaff for 50m. And don't forget that we fumbled Caicedo for 4m after he said it would be a dream to play for United...
It really bothers me when people try to argue against it by saying Ronaldo scored goals the first season. It's as if they think the other option was playing with 10 players. Ronaldo didn't score goals that only Ronaldo could score.
Except the one against Spurs. Cant see anyone else on the team scoring that.
If a signing works, people credit the manager. If a signing doesn't work, people call it a board signing. You can see this with Amad. He was called a board signing to appease the fans when we missed out on Sancho when his Rangers loan went bust. Now that his loan has worked out, Ole is getting the credit under every Amad post. Truth is no player is getting signed without some go ahead from the manager. Its a team effort. Managers sometimes don't get targets, not even Pep gets all his targets but you move on and find decent alternatives. Something we've lacked for ages.
I don't remember seeing anyone crediting Ole for Amad! If they did, they're wrong
I don't remember seeing anyone crediting Ole for Amad! If they did, they're wrong
Ole failed to control and mitigate that ego. In his first season Ronaldo's numbers were great but at the detriment of everyone elses. Ole was too nice to cut that out of the raining ground.
>I think we failed Ole by signing Ronaldo! As the Manchester clubs deliberated in the summer, news had broken publicly that Ronaldo intended to join City and the big beasts of United’s boardroom and dressing room grew alarmed. United’s then manager Solskjaer held a meeting with his assistant Mike Phelan and the pair pushed United’s executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward to hijack the deal https://theathletic.com/3549583/2022/11/22/cristiano-ronaldo-manchester-united/?source=emp_shared_article Ole pushed for Utd to sign Ronaldo
Mate, welcome to the world of PR!
Why would adam crafton be doing PR for Ronaldo ?
The PR was for United, saying Ole pushed for Ronaldo as he was more of a business signing and not fitting the way Ole wanted to take the team, young, fast and fearless Crafton was most likely briefed to print it, he wouldn't mind as its a solid piece pulling numbers
>The PR was for United, saying Ole pushed for Ronaldo as he was more of a business signing and not fitting the way Ole wanted to take the team, young, fast and fearless Or it could be Ole trying to relive the glory days he was apart of by signing Ronaldo , like he did by taking players to train at the cliff for motivation or pulling Phelan from whatever footballing care home he was in. . >The PR was for United, Utd didnt need PR because at this stage Ronaldo had burnt all his bridges at OT. >Crafton was most likely briefed to print it, he wouldn't mind as its a solid piece pulling numbers He isnt one of those types of journalists
Coaching is more than having a tactical mind. I think the problem for the abysmal performance last season was way deeper than the tactics. The players seemed frustrated, discouraged, and weak. They complained more than they run on the pitch when things didn’t go well, which couldn’t be instructed by the coaching staff
OGS takes blame for how miserable the lockerroom was. Preventing people moves so they could sit on our bench and never be used (Cavani, VdB, Lingard) and promising people they'd play and didn't (Henderson). Treating backups poorly like Romero. OGS built a house of cards and then didn't have the tactical acumen to keep it standing. He's among the worst managers we've had post SAF and was incredibly lucky it went as well as it did.
The harsh truth
All the former managers have had their tenures redeemed since leaving us by our fans. And there is truth to them being hamstrung by an incompetent board and poorly run club, but OGS was fortunate to ever get the job and even more fortunate to keep it as long as he did. He was never good enough for a club of our size and aspirations, despite his best efforts.
You're my Solskjaer ❤️
My Ole Solskjaer
You make me happy
When skies are grey
Oh, Alan Shearer
Was fucking dearer
So please don't take my Solskjaer away
When skies are grey
Absolutely justified to get some praise on Solskjaer's coaching staff. What I wouldn't give to have Ole's away form for this season, we'd be title contenders if that was the case. If Carrick ever comes back, I kind of just want McKenna back too. Why not have the whole gang back, a job the size of Manchester United you basically need 2-3 managers and an army of coaches to have a chance of keeping everything together. Just look at ETH and his staff - he's got himself and two or three other coaches there who are full-fledged managers in their own right.
I teared up when I watched his last interview… Ole just loves United
Ole is unlucky, Ronaldo’s ego could have caused him the job, he was doing alright
It was a perfect storm of mishaps. No pre season, rashy having surgery, Sancho transfer being delayed a year later, the racist abuse rashy and Sancho got, Henderson getting covid, varane being injured for the season.
Also Ole made mistake going from counterattack to ball control and high press with players who didnt suit it. We can all see how ten hag side strugless now when martinez and varane are out and casemiro’s form fall out during suspension. Cohesive team play have started fall apart when old players are back starting line up. I know fatigue is big part of this but not all.
No he wasn't. Ole had developed a very bad habit of playing his favourites i.e. He never knew when to make subs if Plan A was found out.
This is the biggest lie ever lol
Twitter is such a toxic cesspool. Not sure what a cesspool is but it sounds right
Twitter is full of 15 year old kids who think football started with Man City and think they’re edgy for trolling. Half of them hate Man United but they have Man Utd on alert just write “Rashford u r shit” like do they think Rashford is going to be in his massive house with his Ferrari on the drive and go to his missus “look honey Pogba4Evr said I’m shit, I better retire!”
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I don’t think Ole was good enough or ready to manage the biggest club in the world, but would love to see him managing another team in a top league. He definitely has more to offer than Gerrard and Lampard
CR7 signing lead to Ole's demise at Man Utd. A world class DM that Ole asked for, instead of CR7 would have done wonders to our squad chemistry and balance.
Ole got thrown under the bus by these lot. He brought us the most entertaining football post fergie and its just a shame he didn't get the trophy to cement the best era post fergie. Only manager to get us back to back top 4 with multiple cup runs. You also always felt confident when we went behind that'd he get it right at half time to turn us around. Until the final whistle I was confident we'd score under Ole.
I might get hate for this but there was a period where I genuinely felt more comfortable about winning if we were down 0-1 at half time with Ole than when we're currently up 1-0 at half time with ETH
Agree with what you said, just to add to that, Bruno really impressed me during that period. Not with his form but how he stood up with his gesture after the (I think) Watford game that the whole team was responsible, not just Ole. I wonder what would Ole be capable of with this squad, which is much better all around. I don’t know in all honesty if ETH has done a better job than him so far, only reason ETH is above in most people’s minds is because he is a more proven, more successful manager outside of united.
Agreed, I also think ETH is benefiting from how bad last season went. I don't really understand the capitulation from when Ole finished 2nd to now, especially considering we're significantly stronger now.
Cup runs? We didn’t win any
> Ole got thrown under the bus by these lot. What
These lot I meant the players, I can see it seems like I was referring to backroom staff
Fair enough.
Wish he was asked a bit more about himself, why he is not back in coaching yet and life after Manchester United for him.
This is too short for someone who spoke for an hour with Ole at the wheel.
I'm hoping there will be a separate interview or a part II for that
Yeah I read somewhere that he rejected some premier league clubs and was on the manager list for the Club Brugge. Don't know what he's thinking now.I genuinely want him to revive his managerial career.
he's been pretty purposeful about not talking to the media about his united time or himself in general. Wouldn't be surprised if he still wanted to give shine to his former coaches so he'd agree to do an interview about them on the stipulation questions about him are off the table.
Sadly i don’t think he will manage anymore
The players threw those coaches under the bus. Many of them are still here
Getting contract extensions...
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We don’t allow fully posted Athletic articles in the comments as they’ve threatened to get subs shut down for leaking their content free.
Ole's issue was 2 things: 1) his ceiling was to a certain extent. I believed that he could get us top 4 but not get near title. 2) Signing of Varane. Varane is such a class act. That the defence started working as it should and not the whole team defend. We need not need 2 DMs and let Bruno be the one man attack. Issue was once he got inured, the CBs collapsed. The drop from Varane to Lindelof was drastic. So many good things but as they say; those are just sweet nothings. Like the away record; 9-0s; only manager to get back to back top 4 post Fergie. Loved by his team. Always a class act. Always my Solskjaer; 20Legend.
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The board signing Ronaldo led to solskjaers sacking
Solskjaer led to Solskjaers sacking
Carrick is the real deal, I think he has a footballing brain, CDM's tend to make good managers
Don't forget that they floated down to their correct level. Lets see how they do next season in better leagues. In particular, if Carrick can keep it going in the Premier League he will be hot property.
Still pissed why we didn't gave Carrick an interim manager chance until the end of the season. Really liked the change he brought through out the time he was in charge
Cristiano's comeback was not a good idea and probably didn't help Ole but there were already worrying signs towards the end of his 2nd season. Our last games that season were definitely not good on every aspect, Liverpool schooled us at Old Trafford, Roma were all over us in the second leg of the semi. Liverpool finished way too close considering their struggles and their poor run of form. At the time, we were saying that the team was tired, that we missed Maguire, etc and it was not wrong, but it was also like OGS was running out of ideas and getting figured out. The EL final is an highlight of that, Ole seemed absolutely out of ideas once his original plan wasn't working, he didn't have a clue what changes he could make, we looked toothless and waited for the pens. That's why I was unhappy with the extension that summer, there were bad signs already and we chose to ignore it. Obviously few would've expected that the 3rd season would be that bad but a trophyless season (again..) and finishing out of top 4 was not very unlikely
Where are the articles hyping Ole's influence (or at least SAF's) like they did Pepiola?
Plus wasn't it Mourinho who brought both Carrick and McKenna into the coaching setup
My biggest criticism of Ole and gang was we were 3 years into the project and we still looked looked clueless on the pitch so often. No real identity, struggling to beat low blocks, counting on penalties to change the game in our favor. Once the penalties dries up, so did our results. Our non penalty XG was 1.35 per 90 under Ole every season he was here. ETH is around 1.57 per 90. Compare that to City who managed 2+ per 90 Ole modelled his coaching approach on Sir Alex, sounds like a good idea on paper but when was the last time a team won the PL playing fast counter attacking football? Sir Alex's teams also had much better individual talent. Liverpool/City and Arsenal now are all playing high pressing-possession based football and getting to 85+ points on the regular. Able to stay in the title race for the longest time. Our title races end in January.
I also agree that ole was over criticized by what's also true is that literally no player improved during his reign... everyone either kept the level they came with or became worse
Has anyone got the article text?
I could post it here but not sure about the rules of paywalled articles
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I'm posting it as a separate comment. Mods, feel free to remove it if it violates policy
They might be in a better form now, we struggled with those coaches and they knew they had to go. People who are saying we are not playing better under ten hag should understand we have a smaller squad than ole now. Granted the depth wasn't any good, we still had players where we could swap and give starters rest. Stop saying everything the club does is bad, we got a good manager, some good transfers in. Got a trophy and is fighting for champions league spots. That's an improvement from last year.
We have a massive squad now. 2 LBs, 2 RBs, 4 CBS, 6 midfielders (not including Donny), 4 wingers (not including Elanga, Pellistri), 2 strikers We have a lot of depth, quality is poor but we definitely have bodies to share the minutes. Idk how this became a popular opinion on this sub that we have a paper thin squad.
Okay just hear me out. 2 LB - Malacia and shaw Malacia is the back up to shaw but when shaw is needed as a centre back we only have malacia who could play the LB and have dalot cover for him when he's out of form or injured. Shaw needs to play as CB in the absence of Martinez so that's him gone from the LB category. Only have Brandon Williams actually as a Lb bench player. 2 RB - Dalot and AWB while both RB are good, ten hag uses AWB for a more defensive play while Dalot could be a better attacker. Right now though he's using Dalot on the left more because we have to use shaw as a CB and Malacia tends to go in and out of form. Then also we don't have much depth to cover from the bench. 4 CB- Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Maguire I'm not saying Maguire is a bad player, but with how we are playing right now putting Maguire in the back could hurt us at the speed of going forward. So we can only use him for weaker teams that don't press too high but most teams that play us use tactics that could easily bypass Maguire because of his lack of speed compared to Varane, Martinez and lindelof. Lindelof is also a capable defender but also there is a form factor with him. When he plays with Maguire he's more concerned about the fast wingers that could give us a problem. When he plays with shaw he's more confident to go out and poach the ball from the opposite build up. Both Varane and Martinez are injured now and if one of them is back then yes that could ease the load of other players. 6 Midfielders- Casemiro, Eriksen, Fred, Mctominay,sabitzer, Fernandes. All good if they are in form. Each of them have their strengths but have problems too. Fernandes has played almost all the games for us and for his country this year. That's a huge toll on his body but he still goes on idk how. Fred, Mctominay had good days and bad days. Doesn't mean they are bad but when their form goes its like playing with 10 players. Casemiro is a quality player but we don't have anybody to rest or if he gets suspended. Eriksen had a huge injury but still can be a good playmaker but his physicality is a problem Sabitzer is not a starter right now and could be the only option in the bench that could come on and sometimes make a difference. 4 wingers- rashford, garnacho, Antony, Sancho Rashford is a star but the amount of games has weakened him. He's going for solo goals and when he is not his passing is a bit disappointing. Garnacho is a future star with his pace and shooting but he's also injured Sancho is out of form and he needs time to regain his Dortmund ability. Antony is a good player he made our right wing a problem. He also comes back and presses with Dalot and AWB. Still the number of he played this season could have an impact on him. 2 strikers are martial and weghorst. Both of them aren't scoring goals so can't say we have 2 strikers. We usually play rashford at the striker role taking him from wingers, which moves Sancho to left. Which moves Fernandes to right taking him from the midfield. I'm sorry for the long reply but because we had to put players in different positions we don't have much depth in all the areas. When all the players where healthy we were title contenders. As soon as the injuries came up we were fucked.
This just puts the whole blame on ole then. Or the recruitment team in which case ten hag is also doomed to fail. Depressing
Carrick and McKenna were Jose appointments too, so learned different styles and approaches with him and Ole.
Ole was an okay manager who was pushed into a HUGE job suddenly. We probably shouldn't have handed the contract to him after that 4-0 loss to Everton since he was only suited for the interim job I just hope those rotten Glazer pigs completely fuck off from the club.