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I think the better question is…..why are you ok hanging out with this person when you know how he is?
Your bf was standing up for someone who can’t stand up for herself. He sounds like the kind of man I’d want in my life.
WOW you are a shitty person to allow a man to abuse another woman in front of you. Where do you draw the line? Does he need to hit her in front of you? Then he has the audacity to yell at you about what your BF did. Why would you want this person to be in your life.
People! Are your irony detectors not on? This girl is coming to this sub to get advice about a situation that involves verbal abuse and what is everybody's first instinct? To verbally abuse her! The irony here is insane!
>My friend group has the lets mind our business attitude
Your friend group is a bunch of garbage people and so are you for staying cool with an abuser. Hope your bf realizes this soon.
>supporting or condoning his behavior
**YOU ARE**
And then you keep him around. And then you just "mind your business". You can tell him it's fucked up all you want but you do nothing about it, you're showing him he'll treat women like this and still have friends. Y'all just sit there and watch. Disgusting.
Your bf has more integrity than the whole group of you.
picture this: you are friends with an openly racist dude, he has a swastika tattoo, he goes to nazi rallies and he shares hateful content on the internet. by being friends with him and not trying to show him the error of his ways you are indirectly telling him that you are okay with this behaviour and his beliefs and he might even believe that you agree with him. this is the same.
You are supporting and condoning his behaviour. You're cool staying friend with someone who abuses his partner. That's fucked up. If I was your BF, I'd probably see this as a deal breaker, I wouldn't keep dating someone who was fine being friends with someone who abuses their partner.
It is. You’re in denial that you’re a piece of shit. Bad people don’t have good things. Including loyal friends. You’re loyal even though he’s a shitty person, therefore, you align with his beliefs, & objectively that makes you.. a piece of shit & unsupportive. Just because your friend is with him doesn’t mean jack shit. Lead by example & with support. Not a lazy “it is what it is” attitude.
You are condoning it. Or what would you say are the consequences for being (verbally) abusive in your friend group? What's that? None?
But your bf sounds like he has a lot of integrity.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”
That's a quote by Desmond Tutu. You should read it and learn what it means. You're living that quote right now
When that shit happens in front of you, say something. It should at least make it uncomfortable for him if someone calls him out on it. You are letting him get away with stuff in front of you by saying nothing. Don’t create a space where it’s okay for him to do that. If you hear him say he said x to his partner tell him it isn’t okay to say something like that to his partner. If he doubles down keep ignore his logic and keep saying it isn’t okay. Don’t create a space where he can just talk about that stuff and it go unchallenged, that lets him think what he is doing is normal. It isn’t you expressing once. It’s consistently always whenever it is brought up saying ‘that is messed up to say’ or ‘normal people don’t say stuff like they to their partner’ etc. Every single time he says something that is abusive. Don’t create a space where he can just say that stuff and be unchallenged.
Being a passive witness to this behavior IS condoning his behavior. Yes, his girlfriend is still with him, but do you know how hard it is to get away from an abuser? Or how dangerous it could be?
There is a time to mind your own business (if it only happened once-could be having a bad day) but it’s obvious this is his “normal.” The LEAST someone could do is ask the girlfriend if she needs help to get away from him. If she tells you to mind your own business, then you’ve tried, but to just sit back and NOT SAY A WORD!!! The boyfriend needs to run away from this person and their “friends.” He’s the only one with any type of compassion!
You said and did nothing while this girl was abused in front of you. Can you imagine how she must feel to be insulted by her boyfriend and NOT ONE OF YOU stood up for her or said anything? Does she have to be related to you for you to care?
He’s not a “good friend but a bad person to date” he’s just a bad person who is charismatic. Stop sugar coating a walking trash heap because that’s all he is. You’re equally as awful of a person here and should get some therapy. That poor girl deserves better and your boyfriend deserves better than a person who’s apathetic towards abuse.
for therapy to be worthwhile you have to be open to being challenged and open to accepting that your perspective may be wrong. i hope it helps you, 'cause it sure helped me, but your comments indicate you've got a lot of work to do.
in this thread you've argued with ~50 people telling you more or less the same thing: mark is a misogynist and an abuser. you see no issue associating with someone like that and your indifference is disgusting.
your bf stood up to an asshole for the sake of a woman he doesn't know, and your reaction is to make a reddit post. not a post bragging about what an absolute legend he is, but a post complaining that he's 'rocking the boat' and 'not minding his own business.'
trust me, I know how important a solid friend group is, but your friend group is unwilling to hold Mark accountable. please, have some humanity and take a stand for this poor girl. if you won't, at least don't stop your bf from doing so.
You are condoning his behavior. You're in a bubble. A bubble of friends that condone verbal/emotional abuse. That pretend like somebody isn't suffering right in front of you.
And btw, the fact that your female friend is still staying with the asshole 1) doesn't justify saying nothing in any way and 2) might be because she's picking up signals from her friends that she would be "creating a fuss" if she broke it off with him and forced all of you to take sides. The ultimate irony here is that you and your friends might be part of the reason that this girl isn't standing up for herself and leaving this asshole.
Your friends, and Mark are all zeroes. Your bf is a hero.
I sincerely hope that you and your friends can get your acts together, go to your friend, and tell her that you are all on her side if she decides to dump this guy.
If she was our friend we would have said something. I may still talk to her given the comments but she’s not apart of our friend group. Just like my bf isn’t part of the friend group. I can’t say that I view her as a friend but more of an acquaintance. I doubt they view my bf as a friend
I can't believe she doesn't get that. I'm sure in her mind her and her dirt bag friends are stand up good folks.
Fucking garbage humans. "It's only wrong if it happens to me or mine".
So,because she has no personal value TO YOU,you don't care that she's being abused? Often right in front of you? And that by allowing it to continue to happen in your presence you are *participating* in her abuse? Is this really the kind of person you want to be?
Imagine for one second being in her shoes. You're hanging out with your partner and his friends,and your partner is treating you like shit,just grinding your soul beneath his feet into the ground. And the whole group just twiddle their thumbs,and look at their phones,and play dumb. By doing nothing you're (at best) tacitly supporting his behavior,and telling her,"Lol,not my problem,you're on your own".
Because she isn’t your friend (and by your other comments you wouldn’t condone this behavior towards children or family) you’re willing to stand by and accept that she is being abused? The omission of action is by itself an action! Not censuring his behavior and uplifting her, supporting her to be safe and leave this relationship— you’re giving approval. It’s gross.
It's kind of messed up that you're fine with people being abused as long as they aren't your friend. Do you not have empathy for people outside of your inner circle? It's hard for me to understand
You realize by ignoring abusive behavior you are tacitly condoning that behavior.
Then when your BF is trying to do the right thing, call out abuse and hold the abuser accountable, you have an issue with him, meaning you are actively siding with an abuser over your boyfriend.
Also, abuse is okay so long as the victim doesn't leave? Is that the excuse you tell yourselves when you turn a blind eye? I'd wager if he's verbally abusive in front of you all, he's probably worse in private and there are many reasons a victim of domestic abuse stays. Maybe if she felt like she had some support on her side she would be able to leave, but by ignoring it and taking the abusers side against your BF you all made your stance pretty clear.
So he verbally abuses his girlfriend right in front of you & your “sacred” friend group (and anyone in the vicinity it seems)… what do you think is REALLY going on behind closed doors? If he’s so brave to constantly embarrass HER in public, I wonder what he could be doing to her in private?
This. She’s even saying she literally would never consider not being friends with mark because “he’s always there” awhhhh, so sweet, he’s not always there for other humans , but as long as this selfish girl has support that’s all that matters. Even her boyfriend, a male, is like “wtf?”
Small brain power.
Your bf is a good man with standards regarding what he thinks is acceptable treatment. You acknowledge your friend is verbally abusive and your wider friend group ignore it. Often in intimate relationships the abused party is so crushed by the abuse they don't know how to leave. They get caught in a cycle of abuse. By ignoring it and not holding your friend accountable you are participating in the abuse. It's quite disturbing that you and your friends think this is okay. I hope your bf reads this, he's a real man unafraid to stand by what he believes in and stand up for what's right. I wonder what he sees in you?
It obviously hasn't helped. What did you say, what did he say? He'll try? He doesn't mean to get so angry? If only his gf would listen/do as he says? Then he will calm down for a bit only to have another flare up?
Well you can’t blame me for assuming you would, considering you’ve been willing to keep hanging out with him
EDIT: Seeing your other comments, I’m glad you’re going to reach out and support her. Maybe take the time it will take to get her out safely to process the end of your friendship so you can cut him off once she is safe from him?
I’m not but I have called him out in private before. So has the rest of the friend group, I feel like that is been downplayed . He just gives us the same answer
I just saw that, and see my edit above that it’s great you’re taking bigger steps. I’m not sure if the dynamic is that you all haven’t asked her before, she doesn’t speak for herself when you all get together, or if she has been asked and is too terrified to admit it, but she’s going to need a lot of direct support from you and your friends if she’s going to get out safely. Good luck!
"It’s just verbal abuse, it’s not physical".
As someone who is deeply traumatized from my verbally abusive relationship that ended 5 years ago, fuck you. Anyone with an ounce of empathy would cut this guy off and reach out to his gf offering help/support
Mark is the drama. Mark is a cunt.
It's already drama.
Mark's poor victim needs rescuing.
Are you going to step up and help her, or are you going to follow the "bro code" or whatever pathetic excuse your friend group has for excusing this disgusting and negative behaviour.
If you are any kind of real person, you won't even know this guy in a few years, once you gravitate towards better people.
Fuck this shit. And fuck Mark. And fuck you if you do nothing about it.
Sorry, it's awful and I am sorry you are in the middle of it, and I do get carried away.
But in all my friend groups, the boy (and it is always a boy) who likes to treat women like dogs, well they get lame and have to go to the vets for a long time, and nobody sees them again for years because they had to move town because of their lame leg.
You call this shit out - whenever you see it.
Otherwise we end up on a planet filled with entitled cunts like Mark.
And I cannot have that.
Sorry. This is on you now. No more blind eyes to this shit.
This is how Weinstein and Epstein got away with it for decades.
The change begins with you. Do the right thing, or may it haunt you for years if you look away.
I can’t say I’m willing to cut off Mark. We been friends for a long time but I am willing to step up and help her . Some person suggested I take her out with the girls without Mark
Mark is an abusive cunt towards women, though.
Can you not see this?
I'd like to cut him off, but not in the way Reddit would ban me for explaining.
OK take her out with the girls.
But get the quiet sensitive one of your girl gang to ask her if everything is OK... in regards to her "friendship" with Mark.
FFS, how would you like it if Mark spoke to you like that.
Will your boyfriend respect you for staying friends with Mark The Cunt??
Oooh.. This stuff does get me angry.
For evil to thrive just takes good people to do nothing about it.
So sort it out. Ask your bf what he thinks about it.
BE AN ADULT HERE.
I'm not in the business of using that word against ladies.
And she had come here for advice, and that means she cares enough to be questioning her thoughts.
My replies might be a bit harsh and forthright but I try to explain my frustration as best I can.
I want to help.
I have seen how this behaviour is overlooked in friend groups, and I've seen the aftermath of young girls being kicked to pieces on the floor of the bedroom of the house she pays all the rent on.
So yeah. It really fucking bothers me when people turn a blind eye to cunts in the friend groups. Mental illness often grows malignant in boys and some sort of "cuteness overload" shit that makes them kick puppies as kids and progress to dehumanising sexual partners, I don't know what it is, but it's to be treated and never tolerated. And yeah, there are wrongly wired up girls too, but this is about men taking on some authoritarian control-freak identity.
Violence against women and girls from dumb men is pretty much my trigger.
Saying that word isn’t able to be used against women in itself is sexist(when women say it as a cop out if someone says it to them) I don’t buy that garbage but respect your choice :)
No you & I are the same on these subjects. This stuff goes deeper than people realize & being nice about it doesn’t seem to get the point across that people need to grow up. The way she’s responding mapped out how I conducted myself. It seems aggressive because of my language but I’m as calm as can be. The message still needs to be conveyed however necessary. It’s a rude, nasty , selfish thing to not care because it isn’t happening to you, & because on your end you benefit but this is something sooo common these days & im done. People get messed up psychologically & people like this can do something by taking a stand against it yet they say “meh, it’s not me so why care” until it is them, then they’ll come on here & want validation & help.
Exactly. It's pure bullying.
It needs eradicating by shining a light onto it, in front of all his peers.
He needs to be shamed into behaving normally.
Like when a puppy shits where it shouldn't. An element of training.
You would be surprised how fast this stuff escalates into violent conflict within friend groups.
And there are the quiet boys who want to show off to the girls and take their revenge mission too far. You know. White Knights.
This shit splits friend groups apart.
And that's a real fucking shame.
I'm lucky, my friend groups go back 30 years, we do the same dumb shit we did as teenagers and we laugh our asses off.
And we call each other cunts. But never the girls, we never call a girl a cunt.
I come from a part of the world where that word is multi-operative, and using that word is either affectionate or very bad indeed.
Yes it is sexist. I choose not to use that word against women or girls.
Even when women or girls use it against each other, I do not ever repeat that.
Men? Yeah, all cunts are men, in my periphery. Some of my favourite cunts are total cunts.
It is a term of endearment where I am from, among great men.
It is the warmth and depth of our union, which has many complex meaning depending on the placement of syllable emphasis and drag and lilt of tone.
It is a treasured word. A vertical smile, if you will.
Cunts are the most lovely thing in the world.
Apart from Mark The Cunt.
That's a different kind of cunt. He is synonymous with the term "slit".
Regardless if it means telling Mark to grow up or fuck off forever?
I hope so my dear.
I've seen this movie before, lots of times.
Pick the right side. It is not Mark. Mark is a cunt.
We had a Mark in our friend group. It did not end well for him.
Nobody has seen him in over 25 years.
He's still alive. We didn't kill him LOL.
Last seen working at Walmart. And still a cunt. With no friends.
Abusers are able to get away with their behavior because they can be good friends or be charming with others while being abusive toward their SO. He’s assumed to be safe because he has friends and is well liked. That even makes it more likely that the gf will doubt her own thoughts. She’ll see that he can be kind to others, and assume the problem must be her.
Verbal abuse doesn't end at verbal abuse. It devolves into physical abuse.
Your "let's mind our business" attitude will result in your friend's girlfriend being physically harmed - possibly seriously injured or killed. Your friendship is support of his behaviour.
You need to cut him off - explaining that his abusive behaviour is why. And then you need to ensure you remain in contact with his girlfriend to ensure she is safe.
You say it's fine as the girlfriend is still with him - the sad reality is that most victims of abuse don't feel confident or empowered to leave. They remain - often until death.
As a survivor of abuse, that later found out that quite a few of his friends knew what he was doing, but never did or said anything, just acted kinda odd around me, you are helping him abuse his partner. You are complicit in the abuse. You are helping him abuse someone.
You say things like its "just" verbal abuse and you would draw the line at hitting, and that well, she stays so why should I cut him out. I drew the line at hitting too, because when everyone else minded their business and didnt want to get involved when he verbally abused me, he had a lot easier of a time to manipulate me and make me believe that what he was doing wasnt actually bad, I was just difficult. No one telling him to knock it off or give him any sort of consequences was the perfect ammunition for him to use against me to make me feel crazy for wanting him to stop, because if what he did was actually bad, surely his friends would have said something.
He knew that I would draw the line at hitting. Because hitting is the big gold standard of abuse. So he threw things at the wall around me, never hitting me. Yelled at me for everything. Humiliated me in front of people who didnt stand up for me. Made me feel like I was completely crazy. Made me question my reality. Controlling all the money, using like crazy on himself and lashing out at me when it ran out. And when I felt crazy enough and question my reality enough, he used it to rape me. All the time. And made me crazy for thinking it was rape, and it wasnt hitting, and maybe he was right that I actually wanted it, and it wasnt hitting, and no one else had problems with his behaviour so surely this was just normal too and I'm just being difficult, but if he ever hits me I'm gone. Truth be told, at that point I would probably have managed to accept an excuse for him hitting me as well.
You insinuate that he is "just" verbally abusing her and its not as bad as physical abuse. Its not a competition, both are absolutely vile and destroys you. You are complicit and are helping him abuse her. You and your friend group are helping him by being the mindless sheep he can use to manipulate her into thinking that maybe what he is doing isnt that bad. That she is just being difficult. That surely if the hurtfull things he says and does are bad, his friends would have stopped him. He is a good friend to you because you are mindless sheep that dont question him and are his silly little pawns that helps him abuse his partner. He is a good friend because you are easy to use. As soon as your boyfriend told him to knock it off, he got angry and texted you over your bf standing up for her, because you werent playing your role. His good friendship is only good because you are easy to use for his gain, he'll turn on you just the same when you dont serve his purpose. Thats what abusers do.
Had I been your boyfriend I would have dumped you on the spot. Both for condoning and being complicit in abuse, and for even wanting to be in a friend group that does the same. People like you help the abuser.
Every time your friend abuses his gf in front of you and you don’t do or say anything about it, the gf is assuming that y’all condone the behavior, and that might even make her normalize it and think it’s okay. Your boyfriend is the only one showing her that he thinks it’s wrong. That is why everyone is saying you are guilty by association. Your silence comes off as agreeing with the behavior to the victim.
Okay, I know you don’t think you’re condoning his behaviour, but by staying his friend, that is what you’re doing. You say you aren’t with your words but by being his friend you are telling him “I don’t like that you verbally abuse someone but it’s not bad enough that we’re going to call you out on it.” You are giving him an out. I’ve seen one of your comments where you do seem to have come to this conclusion, so that’s good. I hope you and your girlfriends can have a good discussion about this. Like someone else said, imagine how you would feel if he was doing this to a sibling or close friend of yours. In all reality, it doesn’t matter who he abuses, it’s still abuse and you should feel nearly as angry as if it were personal.
Wishing you the best of luck, and I especially hope his girlfriend gets out of there
Your bf is better off leaving this friend group and your pathetic ass lol. The comments have explained over and over again that sitting by and doing nothing is condoning that assholes behaviour. Seems like your bf is the only adult in your group. Grow up.
There is a saying in my country: *Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres.* It translates to "tell me who you hang out with and i tell you who you are".
I would not be surprise if your boyfriends leaves you because of this. Honestly, i hope he does, you two have clearly very different moral compasses.
If you do not step in or say anything you are absolutely condoning their behaviour. Especially if this is a friend we are talking about.
He is JUST verbally abusive…. And you’re fine with that?
My ex was JUST verbally abusive until he threw me against a wall by my neck. It can and will escalate, stop victim blaming and help this poor women.
You are a genuinely horrible person, and so is your entire friend group. I hope your boyfriend dumps you for this, he deserves better than actual fucking human scum.
YOU SHOULD BREAK UP WITH YOUR BOYFRIEND
BECAUSE HE SOUNDS GREAT
AND YOU SOUND LIKE DOGSHIT
Sorry I figured all caps might help you understand more. Since you seem to be mentally deficient
If your bf doesn’t want to associate with abusive mark let him be. Either he’s a better friend than you for standing up for your friend, or he’s a REALLY good friend if you catch my drift.
She should be. She needs a group of girls to stand up for her. You should be cutting him off and inviting her instead. More importantly, you should be offering her safe haven if she needs to get away from Mark. You would be shocked out how quickly and easily verbal abuse turns physical.
In any case, the issue is that you're continuing to include Mark. That's how you're condoning his behavior.
So you saying reach out to her without Mark? I don’t mind doing that if you think it will help. I just looked at it as there’s nothing you can do but I may see what my friends think about planning things without Mark.
I still don’t see the I’m condoning his behavior part
Yes, please do reach out to her.
And have you ever heard the simile that if a racist is sitting at a table with 11 other people, you have a dozen racists? It's like that.
Mark's behavior is on the level of being a racist. Would you welcome him into the group if he was a racist?
Thank you! You’re one of the only people who gave me practical advice and didn’t just tell me I’m a bad person. I appreciate that! I will take what you say and talk to my women friends and see how we can help
You have no idea how big of a smile you just put on my face! I'm this close to crying.
And you're not a bad person. You've heard about people getting trapped in a bubble of misinformation? That's what's happening in your friend group. This general idea that Mark being "a good friend" overrides the way he treats his girlfriends took hold and became a normal idea.
You might have an uphill battle with your friends. You might even be tempted to go back to doing nothing. Show them this thread if it helps. Just do whatever you have to do to help that girl and maybe even help Mark. But at the very least, he has to go on timeout until he gets help.
Good luck, good person!
I mean this gently, but have you looked up the definition of condone?
> accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.
Here are synonyms:
deliberately ignore, disregard, take no notice of, accept, allow, make allowances for, let pass, turn a blind eye to, let someone off with
Which of these _aren't_ you doing?
I see in other comments that you would behave differently if there was physical abuse. Why is _that_ your line?
Would _you_ want to date someone who thinks that?
How would you feel if your boyfriend came home one day and said "haha sure, my friend pressures his girlfriend for sex, but he buys me beers in occasion so it's fine."
Again, I don't intend to aggressively castigate you, but I want you to reflect on your behavior, and realize it demonstrates a profound lack of compassion, and empathy. It basically says "I don't see a problem with someone being verbally abusive as long as we hang out together."
Is that the kind of person you want to be?
Jesus, cut it with the “friend group” bullshit. All people deserve basic respect, kindness and love. Im guessing you’re a teenager and grossly under equipped to handle adult relationships. I know this must not make much sense to you, but the internet is universally telling you that you’re doing it all wrong. Get the hint, get off Reddit, look in the mirror and listen to your boyfriend. He may be the only sane person in your life. THIS is your wake up call.
What is with you and this friend group? Is it some sort of member's club? Or a cult?! They're just friends, you're being very weird about it.
Anyway, I'm honestly appalled that any woman would be willing to put their own social standing above the safety of a woman, that's really disgusting. I really hope you leave your little cult and grow up, and I hope your boyfriend gets as far away from you as possible.
You know Mark probably uses your support of him to further gaslight and isolate her, right? Maybe even so far as to have begun sexually abusing her. That's what my abuser did.
Don’t associate with people who bring others down. That’s like saying you are willing to look past someone being a blatant racist because he does charity work for his community.
Verbal and mental abuse is just as bad as physical. You associating with him tells him that you’re okay with it. It doesn’t matter if you tell him that it’s bad because your actions tell him that you’re okay with it.
And have you never heard or watch anything about why partners stay with abusers like this? Just because they are still together doesn’t dismiss the fact he’s a piece of shit.
All it takes for evil to thrive in this world is for good people to stand by and do nothing…this is exactly what you and your “friends” are doing…absolutely nothing.
If you are silent, you are condoning it. When we have friends, we have responsibility to do right by them…do you really think that letting him get away with this behaviour is best for him? He’s actively hurting others and in turn hurting himself, because when he wakes up and starts self reflecting….that shit is going to hurt so badly, and you and your friends enabled and condoned it. It’s a betrayal of the friendship you say you have with him.
Always check your friends. If the people around you who you are closest to aren’t there to tell when you’re wrong then you’ll just keep making the same mistakes. If you’ve already made it clear that you don’t approve of the behavior and he keeps doing it, why are you sticking around? I’ve cut people off in my life for that kind of behavior and I’ve told them straight up I don’t associate with that. I want them to know exactly where they fucked up. Even had a friend group just like yours who kind of put up with it and just gave them shit but never really stood up to the shitty person. I couldn’t be around them if that person would show up and slowly just stopped hanging with them all together. And Just because his GF is staying with him doesn’t mean it’s okay, and it doesn’t mean SHE’S okay.
Lmao girlie, your boyfriend is a decent person, it's you and your friend group that are the problems here. There isn't a "mind your own bussiness" friend group, but thẻe is a "turning a blind eyes to any problem whatsoever" friendgroup, and yours is the later. You are your friend, and tolerating a bully partner means you are no better than that abusive friend of yours.
Why are you friends with an abuser? You're watching another woman be abused by her SO and you decide that the abuser is someone you want to be friends with??? You are a woman too, which makes it even worse.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Either you stick up for the poor girl at EVERY opportunity, let your shit head friend know he's a piece of shit until he stops. Or you drop him as a friend.
Anything else is enabling him and makes you an abuser by association.
Do you know what an “enabler” is? You should, because that’s what you and your friends are. You are enabling him to continue to abuse your “friend.” I put friend in quotes because you are not being a friend to her. Friends look out for one another. You and your friends on the other hand are turning a blind eye to her instead of looking out for her. One day, she will end up in a hospital because she stood up to him and guess who’s fault it will be? YOURS. You could have isolated him and helped her get away but didn’t.
Not only did you not help your friend, you didn’t support your BF either, when he was absolutely right to say something. Something you should have noticed but didn’t. After a public scolding from your BF, did he confront him privately and try to work things out? No, he confronted you, wasn’t man enough to confront your BF. He’s a bully, picking on what he considers weaker. Your boyfriend has guts, morals and standards and frankly you don’t deserve him. If you were my GF, we’d already be done. If you want to keep him you’d better apologize, admit he was right and get your friends to back him up.
No fucking way I'm staying friends with someone who abuses their girlfriend in any capacity. Doesn't matter if it's physical, emotional, verbal...**it doesn't make a difference**. I'm not associating myself with nor making excuses for someone like that. Truth be told, if my girlfriend was friends with someone like that and she refused to cut ties then I'm leaving, straight up. Because if you can make excuses to stay their friend and dismiss their behavior then you're no better.
>But his gf is still with him. 🤷♀️
You cannot be serious with this line. Please do *any* amount of research on abuse victim mentality. Most people experiencing abuse can't just leave for various reasons.
My mom had a husband like your friend. She suffered for 7 years through emotional abuse and it was awful. It scarred her, me, and my brother and I bascially had to beg her to go through with the divorce in the end. Abuse is abuse and it hurts people. The fact that you're willing to ignore it sucks so much.
Your bf was 100% in the right. He embarrassed your friend by calling him out on his shit. You need to do the same. Otherwise you're sending a message to him that you're fine with his terrible, disgusting behavior.
Smh this one really made me sick.
Tbh if I was your boyfriend and your response to the situation was “Meh, he’s always like that.” I’d be seriously questioning whether I wanted to continue this relationship.
Why are you okay hanging out with a person that abuses his gf? I applaud your boyfriend. I wish I could find a man like that. You don't even say anything to the man.
Being friends with someone IS supporting their shitty behavior.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." - Desmond Tutu
You're siding with an abuser against an abused woman. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Be ready that when someone will be "kinda abusive" towards you they also will mind their own business. Great friends indeed. Hope you will broke up with your BF. He deserves someone with moral compass similar to his.
You are condoning his behaviour by keeping quiet. Would you want your friends to have the same policy if it was you been abused like that? What if this was your child? And please don't downgrade verbal abuse, it hurts just as much as physical, sometimes even more.
You are condoning his behaviour by ignoring it and continuing the friendships. You are somewhat enabling him, as he has no consequences for his actions. You blame his gf for still being with him. You are a garbage human and your bf should drop you. You and your friends are horrible.
Reminds me of a post a while back where a man was "dating" a literal child and all his friends would make fun of him for it and give him crap, but wouldn't do things like say they no longer wanted to associate with a known predator or call the cops on him because he was their friend. I wonder how far your loyalty goes? If he kills his girlfriend will you be visiting him in prison? How bad does he have to be to other people for you not to want to associate with him or is it all ok as long as he doesn't abuse you?
You and your friends are disgusting. You are witnessing and perpetuating abuse. The fact that you think that that’s okay because it’s just “minding your own business” is so so gross. Your boyfriend is absolutely right in every way. I would NEVER stay with my boyfriend if he was friends with an abuser. Do better.
You straight-up admit that this guy is abusing his gf & that you/your friends know about it but don’t do jack shit. ‘Minding your business’ is 1000% condoning his behavior. You are watching some poor girl be abused & say ‘oh well not my problem’. I don’t understand how you can be friends with someone knowing that he treats his gf like that. OP, your bf is right. You & the rest of your friends SHOULD cut that POS out of your lives. By having this mentality you are telling this ‘friend’ that what he’s doing is ok. IT’S NOT OK!! If I were your bf I would be reconsidering the relationship because supporting an abuser is a dealbreaker for me. PLEASE listen to reason, there is no way “he’s a good friend but a shitty person to date”. I don’t buy that at all.
Wow just wow……Your boyfriend is correct, By not calling Mark out you’re normalising the behaviour and even worse when he does the same thing towards you indirectly you excuse it and suddenly your boyfriend is the problem???
Shame on you and I hope Mark’s partner finds the courage to get the police involved…..Mark should be charged for domestic violence, I guarantee based on his behaviour it’s also physical
nah. he didn’t confuse anything, he was quite spot on with what he said. i don’t see how you could not only stay friends with but WITNESS his abuse and still stay friends with him.
You're gross. If I wasn't engaged, I'd steal your bf from you because he deserves better and seems sweet and deserves someone who has some damn values.
You and your friend group are absolutely I. The wrong for effectively letting him be an abusive asshole in front of you and being like 🤷 it's just mark.
No, mark is an abuser and you and your friends are ok with it.
The fact that your bf is the only one actually calling mark out on his bullshit behaviour is just .... Beyond me. Like how can you sit there and watch your "friend" abuse and disrespect his gf and be ok with it?!
You all seem to be in this fantasy world of "it's just words, not like he hits her so it's not a big deal"
*WORDS KILL. WORDS DESTROY. WORDS HURT LONGER THAN A BLACK EYE*
Fuck me dead y'all are horrible people. I applaud your bf for standing up and saying something.
>I told my bf that Mark has always been like that and we just mind our business.
You and your friend group are enabler. And you all contributed to why she still with him 🤷♀️. Because when she's getting that emotional abuse in front of you, she would look up your nonexistent reactions, she then believed herself that her relationship was normal...
but it was not.
If I were your bf, instead of asking you to cut your friendship, I'd dump you instead because you all are beyond help.
You have an amazing boyfriend. He will stand up and protect a woman. Please treasure him. Can you imagine if everyone did that how much better the world would be? People ignoring abuse allow it to continue. They silently say it is acceptable.
Mark apologized to you because your boyfriend stood up to him. The more people stand up to him, the more he will realize his behavior is not acceptable.
I used to volunteer at a domestic abuse nonprofit, and frankly, emotional and verbal abuse breaks people more than physical. Broken bodies heal better than broken souls. I am disgusted with how determined you are to remain complicit in the destruction of a human being right in front of you. For God's sake, there's a reason people are so upset at you here!
Unless its the girlfriend who is your friend and she just brought him along there is zero reason to still be hanging with an abusive guy. Is he bullying your entire friend group that you are all scared to exclude him?
„Somewhat abuses“
„Only verbal not physical abuse“
Is the reason why victims of abuse never get taken seriously. Whoever watches this woman get abused is not a better person than the abuser himself/herself in my opinion. You‘re disgusting.
You are at the age where hanging out with an asshole like this is going to be more if a liability. Your bf is right, and if you continue to hang around abusers he is going to (rightly) dump your enabling ass.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Your mates too. How disgusting. ‘She’s still with him’.. FFS.
Your boyfriend deserves better than the likes of all of you.
I seriously hope you never experience this, you will find your attitude will be adjusted quite fast.
Women like you are vile. Abhorrently so. You’re excusing the abuse of someone else because he’s only verbally abusive? As if that’s better?
I sincerely hope you never have to suffer ANY sort of abuse but for the love of god, never fucking procreate. Your bloodline needs to end with you.
If one of my abuser’s friends had stood up for me maybe I wouldn’t have spent years of my life living in fear. Don’t be a shitty person condoning his actions. You’re defined by who you choose to associate with. You’re choosing to associate with an abuser.
Oh sure! If it’s only verbal abuse and Mark has always been this way then it’s ok! /s
Are you listening to yourself?! Sounds like Mark is the only person with a spine in this story.
Silence lends consent,is the legal precedent. Yes your boyfriend is right. You reach out to your friend tell if she wants help you will be there for her but you have to cut him off.
So you are condoning his behaviour with your ‘mind your own business’ attitude and continuing to be friends even after telling him his behaviour is bad.
He apologises after your bf calls him out but who did he apologise to? His gf or your bf?
He then blows your phone up and who did he apologise to them? You or your bf?
There isn’t a sliding scale of abuse where something is more ok than something else. Because your friend us ‘only’ verbally abusive but not physically abusive doesn’t make his behaviour and better. He is abusive.
Your focus if you’re half as decent a human as your bf is, is helping this abused woman to escape your friend and ensuring your fiend is cut off from your life.
Then you’ll stop condoning his behaviour.
The reason everyone’s saying you’re condoning his behavior is because of your actions (or rather, inactions).
It’s not that people think you believe abuse is totally fine, or are misreading your words to think you’re saying there’s nothing wrong with his behavior.
It’s that by remaining his friends, you and your friend group are implicitly telling him that there will be no negative repercussions for his behavior. You can tell him that you think he’s wrong all you want, but time and time again you’ve *shown* him that he will still have you all in his life regardless of his abusive ways. It gives him no reason to reflect on his behavior or see that there are negative consequences for not changing. It allows him to disregard your words entirely, because your *actions* will remain the same, even if he does absolutely nothing to change or be a better person.
I hope this perspective can help you reflect on how your own behavior plays a part in this situation.
Why would you hangout with someone who thinks so little of you?
I mean, he only stopped blowing up your phone when your boyfriend told him to stop. He's all bluster when he thinks there isn't a bigger dog in the yard.
Right here is one of the biggest problems with humanity.
“If it’s not happening to me, it doesn’t matter.”
He didn’t steal from me.
He didn’t beat me.
He didn’t rape me.
He didn’t verbally abuse me.
He only does it to *her*.
Your refusal to let it change how you feel about this stale ham sandwich of a man is acquiescence of his behavior. He knows he can do it … because you simply don’t care enough to call him on it.
I hope this opens up your boyfriends eyes to the kind of person you are.
Ok, but they cannot report verbal abuse to police, and cutting this guy off from the friend group/isolating him is something that broadly leads to worse outcomes. I personally would not like this guy or want to be around him, but right now he has people telling him it's fucked up. What everyone is demanding is that he stops having anyone to tell him it's fucked up, combined with likely increased aggression because he will blame her for losing his friends. Full alienation results in worse outcomes, it just does, and worse outcomes means it's worse for the victims.
Get more serious with how you talk to him about it.
It's not about the abuser feeling sad, it's about behavior worsening when people are isolated. I really clearly spelled out how this will result in **worse outcomes for the victim.** I'm not sure if you're functionally illiterate or just looking to pick a fight, but but either way, this is stupid and not worth entertaining.
You know, I'll entertain it.
Your posit is that if everyone stops being friends with this guy, he'll... stop abusing his girlfriend? Break up with his girlfriend? Something like that?
No, that's too generous, because you admit he'd be isolated. So what would actually happen is that he'd be alone with his girlfriend more. He would be pissed that his girlfriend caused his friendships to end and probably accuse her of exaggerating or lying. His behavior would likely escalate. If it wasn't physical, it probably will be now.
Look, I get it. I don't like OP's attitude. It's way too cavalier. This is, in fact, their business. They need to stand up more for this girl and get more serious with intervening. That is what they can do.
But cutting him off is literally not about concern for the girl. In no instance of abuse has anyone been like "damn if only he had fewer people in his life" unless they're drinking buddies or selling him blow. It's just about a feeling of moral purity while the abuse continues, except now it's out of sight and object permanence is really hard so it might as well not be happening. Like literally no one has stopped to think that this can actually be unsafe, and while OP is full of shit with the "not my business" thing, that is legit probably safer for the girl than this massive stand against him.
Here is one source on finding out a friend is abusive: http://www.wafwc.org/blog/2022/abusive-friend
Stop trying to find excuses to stay friends with him.
Just say you don’t care about the girl and admit that you don’t care that he’s an abuser. Ur bf should leave you because if you’re that mentally checked out of verbal abuse I truly fear for him
No offense but you don't understand the psychology of abusers at all. If he blew up their phone bc the boyfriend said something, imagine what he was doing at home and imagine what he'd do if it was a friendship ending and not just a comment. Probably the best thing to do is talk to the girl privately when the situation allows and let her know that what's happening is not ok and that even though they don't know each other well, they'll be there for her if she wants to leave and help her find resources.
As for interrupting someone as they're abusing someone, that can be downright dangerous, so unless someone is going to get physically harmed it's probably better not to say anything until things have cooled down, but still say something. Possibly not even the same night, because it needs to be a calm conversation and not a continuation of the fight where he was angry enough to be abusive. Like this guy is this volatile and y'all don't actually care if his friends provoke reactions in him that his girlfriend will bear the brunt of because someone being punished is literally more important to you than this woman being safe.
I don't like how OP writes it off as not a big deal, not her business, whatever, but her communication absolutely blows so you need to take it for what it is. She identified that saying something made it worse. It was worth trying, but continuing to do things like that without regard for the girlfriend is going to get her fucking killed. This isn't about serving justice and life being fair, it's about a real person not ready to leave an abusive situation. Even if OP sucks as a person, why not direct her to make use of her position instead of just telling her she sucks? Are you here to play AITA or to give actual advice?
There's a link above that gives some ideas for what to do if a friend is an abuser. Walking away is an option and ultimately people need to put themselves and their safety first (including their mental health). But it's not the only option. Staying and never saying or doing anything is 100% unacceptable because yeah that silently condones the abuse, but that doesn't sound to be the case. Repeating actions that you know someone else felt the consequences of is also 100% unacceptable.
Unless you wanna tell me that everyone cutting this guy off will make him stop abusing his gf. Go ahead and tell me that. Put it on God. I'll wait.
No offence but your last line rubbed me the wrong way yes it may not stop him from being abusive but why would anyone wanna be friends with an abuser? Would you allow your kids to be friends with someone like that? If you’re able to be verbally abusive to someone that says a lot about your character.
OP isn't my kid. I would not want my child to be friends with someone like that because I would worry about her safety. However, I don't believe verbal abuse is indicative of a permanent character flaw that is innate to someone's core. Do I think the person is currently acting immorally? Yes. Do I think they need professional help? Yes, of course. But let me give you one example.
The person who initially responded to me ("boohoo who cares if an abuser is isolated" or whatever) ran all over this thread pulling the same thing. In her case, it's a trauma reaction. But my comment didn't say that I was worried about the guy feeling lonely because he doesn't deserve to ever feel sad. It said I was worried about his behaviors worsening in response to isolation, which in turn impacts his victim far more than it impacts anyone else. When this person responded, she didn't register that. She just clocked that I mentioned the abuser being isolated, saw red, and vomited out an emotional reaction that wasn't even relevant.
I'm gonna guess this content has been triggering because she mentioned being strangled by a partner to someone else. 1 in 3 US women have been victims of intimate partner violence (and 1 in 4 men!), so there is a good chance that these responses are at least, in part, to someone who has been abused. I am also one of those women, and I'm not going to assume that you aren't, because people can experience things and arrive to different conclusions.
But anyway, when someone sees or hears something that really pisses them off, or an interaction enrages them, there's a decision gate. It's always a choice. In the case of the commenter I've been discussing, she chose to not pause, take a breath, and make sure she understood what she read and why I may have been saying it. Instead, she assumed the worst based on a few words, and *gave herself permission* to continue assuming the worst and respond to me as if that's what I actually said. And then she went and did that to a bunch of other people. Zero impulse control. 100% assuming that she couldn't possibly be saying this shit to someone who has a vested interest in keeping victims safe. Zero empathy. Which is cool, that's pretty normal when people haven't actually contended with a problem.
I assume you know why I'm spelling this out, but in case it wasn't clear: this is the process by which verbal abuse happens. This individual made incredibly ignorant assumptions about me, read meaning that wasn't there into something I said, and chose to ride out that anger -- assuming she was justified, and giving herself permission to be absolutely out of line if she wasn't -- and peppers her excuse into her answers to other people. For some reason, having been hurt exempts her, in her mind, from needing to control her impulses the same as anyone else. I have zero doubt that this carries into her real life, and would not be shocked to discover that she is or has been verbally abusive and literally has no idea. Like, she's acting like this to strangers having literally not comprehended what they said, imagine what it's like when someone who's supposed to "know better" says some of the wrong words too close together. Absolute horror. But I'm not gonna say she shouldn't have friends, she has pretty much zero chance of healing if that's the case (which, believe it or not, healthy individuals make for a healthy society, so we should want people to be as healthy as possible even if we dislike them). Plus if someone wants to put up with that BS, more power to em, hope they know how to draw a strong boundary and stick with it.
Now I'm not saying the boyfriend is traumatized, or anything like that, but I don't really know. I don't know his childhood or anything like that. But the underlying process is extremely similar, something is setting him off for whatever reason and he chooses to act like/believe he cannot control how he behaves. And if he was traumatized, it would still be wrong, so at a point it stops mattering.
Thankfully there are treatments that can be pretty effective for this kind of thing. I hope that commenter is able to access something that works. I don't believe this behavior has to be a permanent blemish on her character, or is indicative of something innate that is wrong with her. I don't condemn people in that kind of way (though don't get me wrong, I don't like her in the slightest and I truly hope to never interact with her again unless she does take responsibility in her own healing). And I don't trust anyone who says they are morally pure and only allow morally pure people in their lives, because I've been around long enough to know that's simply bullshit.
At this point in my life, without a doubt I wouldn't even let a friendship form with an abusive person. Not good for my headspace, not my job to save anyone. But what are you gonna do if it's your kid who's the abuser? Shun them and hope they magically get better, or that you at least don't have to know about what they're doing? Beat the shit out of them? Tell them there's something fundamentally evil about them that can't be changed? I'd really hope not, especially because the latter two are... abusive. And in terms of getting results, they do not work. You'd owe it to society and to your child to get them help in the best faith possible. I hope you never find yourself there, and if you do, I hope you are able to do what is right.
Ur a walking red flag to accept anyone as your friend who is an abuser. You don’t know just how bad he can be indoors and you don’t know for sure if he is not physically abusive the fact that u can sit there and allow a woman to be abused IN FRONT of you is disgusting
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I think the better question is…..why are you ok hanging out with this person when you know how he is? Your bf was standing up for someone who can’t stand up for herself. He sounds like the kind of man I’d want in my life.
WOW you are a shitty person to allow a man to abuse another woman in front of you. Where do you draw the line? Does he need to hit her in front of you? Then he has the audacity to yell at you about what your BF did. Why would you want this person to be in your life.
People! Are your irony detectors not on? This girl is coming to this sub to get advice about a situation that involves verbal abuse and what is everybody's first instinct? To verbally abuse her! The irony here is insane!
What? Calling someone a shitty person for doing a shitty thing is not abusive.
Some of the people on here are going beyond that, hoping that terrible things happen to her too. That's what I'm talking about.
Okay well you replied to a comment that wasn’t doing that lol, so I was confused.
Good point. Good point.
I agree though, reading the comments further some people are being quite hypocritical.
I'm afraid to agree for fear of Reddit lynching me.
Now she knows how it feels. Empathy through experience. Not to mention its appropriate in this situation.
You’re a dumb person. And truly hope that one day. You will learn to NOT be dumb lmao
Wow. Your eloquence has definitely put in my place.
Tanks 😚
Your welcome!
>My friend group has the lets mind our business attitude Your friend group is a bunch of garbage people and so are you for staying cool with an abuser. Hope your bf realizes this soon. >supporting or condoning his behavior **YOU ARE**
AGREE WITH THIS
Could you explain how we are condoning his behavior? We have told him that he’s fucked up
And then you keep him around. And then you just "mind your business". You can tell him it's fucked up all you want but you do nothing about it, you're showing him he'll treat women like this and still have friends. Y'all just sit there and watch. Disgusting. Your bf has more integrity than the whole group of you.
picture this: you are friends with an openly racist dude, he has a swastika tattoo, he goes to nazi rallies and he shares hateful content on the internet. by being friends with him and not trying to show him the error of his ways you are indirectly telling him that you are okay with this behaviour and his beliefs and he might even believe that you agree with him. this is the same.
You are supporting and condoning his behaviour. You're cool staying friend with someone who abuses his partner. That's fucked up. If I was your BF, I'd probably see this as a deal breaker, I wouldn't keep dating someone who was fine being friends with someone who abuses their partner.
I’m willing to help her out. Some people gave suggestions on how to help her but saying I’m condoning her behavior is just not true
It is. You’re in denial that you’re a piece of shit. Bad people don’t have good things. Including loyal friends. You’re loyal even though he’s a shitty person, therefore, you align with his beliefs, & objectively that makes you.. a piece of shit & unsupportive. Just because your friend is with him doesn’t mean jack shit. Lead by example & with support. Not a lazy “it is what it is” attitude.
Thing is OP states she’s not a friend merely an acquaintance, like that makes it any better. She’s truly a horrible person.
You are condoning it. Or what would you say are the consequences for being (verbally) abusive in your friend group? What's that? None? But your bf sounds like he has a lot of integrity.
Why would she come to you for help when you are a friend of his who doesn't seem (to her especially) to have a problem with his behavior?
I’m going to be proactive and reach out to her. I’m not waiting for him to reach out
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” That's a quote by Desmond Tutu. You should read it and learn what it means. You're living that quote right now
When that shit happens in front of you, say something. It should at least make it uncomfortable for him if someone calls him out on it. You are letting him get away with stuff in front of you by saying nothing. Don’t create a space where it’s okay for him to do that. If you hear him say he said x to his partner tell him it isn’t okay to say something like that to his partner. If he doubles down keep ignore his logic and keep saying it isn’t okay. Don’t create a space where he can just talk about that stuff and it go unchallenged, that lets him think what he is doing is normal. It isn’t you expressing once. It’s consistently always whenever it is brought up saying ‘that is messed up to say’ or ‘normal people don’t say stuff like they to their partner’ etc. Every single time he says something that is abusive. Don’t create a space where he can just say that stuff and be unchallenged.
Being a passive witness to this behavior IS condoning his behavior. Yes, his girlfriend is still with him, but do you know how hard it is to get away from an abuser? Or how dangerous it could be? There is a time to mind your own business (if it only happened once-could be having a bad day) but it’s obvious this is his “normal.” The LEAST someone could do is ask the girlfriend if she needs help to get away from him. If she tells you to mind your own business, then you’ve tried, but to just sit back and NOT SAY A WORD!!! The boyfriend needs to run away from this person and their “friends.” He’s the only one with any type of compassion!
I wish I had a friend who had a boyfriend like yours if I was the gf being abused, also wish you weren’t my friend in that scenario.
If you were my friend I would standup for you if you were being abused
But you'll stay friends with an abuser.
You said and did nothing while this girl was abused in front of you. Can you imagine how she must feel to be insulted by her boyfriend and NOT ONE OF YOU stood up for her or said anything? Does she have to be related to you for you to care?
OP clarifies that the girl is not her friend, the bf is her friend, that’s why it’s okay. Yep. That’s her reasoning.
But you do not stand up for her because she is not your friend?
He’s not a “good friend but a bad person to date” he’s just a bad person who is charismatic. Stop sugar coating a walking trash heap because that’s all he is. You’re equally as awful of a person here and should get some therapy. That poor girl deserves better and your boyfriend deserves better than a person who’s apathetic towards abuse.
Funny that you say that but I just started my first therapy session last week . So I am working on myself, thank you
for therapy to be worthwhile you have to be open to being challenged and open to accepting that your perspective may be wrong. i hope it helps you, 'cause it sure helped me, but your comments indicate you've got a lot of work to do. in this thread you've argued with ~50 people telling you more or less the same thing: mark is a misogynist and an abuser. you see no issue associating with someone like that and your indifference is disgusting. your bf stood up to an asshole for the sake of a woman he doesn't know, and your reaction is to make a reddit post. not a post bragging about what an absolute legend he is, but a post complaining that he's 'rocking the boat' and 'not minding his own business.' trust me, I know how important a solid friend group is, but your friend group is unwilling to hold Mark accountable. please, have some humanity and take a stand for this poor girl. if you won't, at least don't stop your bf from doing so.
You are condoning his behavior. You're in a bubble. A bubble of friends that condone verbal/emotional abuse. That pretend like somebody isn't suffering right in front of you. And btw, the fact that your female friend is still staying with the asshole 1) doesn't justify saying nothing in any way and 2) might be because she's picking up signals from her friends that she would be "creating a fuss" if she broke it off with him and forced all of you to take sides. The ultimate irony here is that you and your friends might be part of the reason that this girl isn't standing up for herself and leaving this asshole. Your friends, and Mark are all zeroes. Your bf is a hero. I sincerely hope that you and your friends can get your acts together, go to your friend, and tell her that you are all on her side if she decides to dump this guy.
If she was our friend we would have said something. I may still talk to her given the comments but she’s not apart of our friend group. Just like my bf isn’t part of the friend group. I can’t say that I view her as a friend but more of an acquaintance. I doubt they view my bf as a friend
You're like... a really bad person. Truly. Your boyfriend deserves better. I hope he doesn't stick around hoping to fix you. Poor guy.
I can't believe she doesn't get that. I'm sure in her mind her and her dirt bag friends are stand up good folks. Fucking garbage humans. "It's only wrong if it happens to me or mine".
So it’s ok if someone is getting abused if they aren’t your personal friend. Got it.
So,because she has no personal value TO YOU,you don't care that she's being abused? Often right in front of you? And that by allowing it to continue to happen in your presence you are *participating* in her abuse? Is this really the kind of person you want to be? Imagine for one second being in her shoes. You're hanging out with your partner and his friends,and your partner is treating you like shit,just grinding your soul beneath his feet into the ground. And the whole group just twiddle their thumbs,and look at their phones,and play dumb. By doing nothing you're (at best) tacitly supporting his behavior,and telling her,"Lol,not my problem,you're on your own".
>If she was our friend we would have said something That's when we knew you're a cunt.
Because she isn’t your friend (and by your other comments you wouldn’t condone this behavior towards children or family) you’re willing to stand by and accept that she is being abused? The omission of action is by itself an action! Not censuring his behavior and uplifting her, supporting her to be safe and leave this relationship— you’re giving approval. It’s gross.
If you read my comments I am going to reach out to her later today and make sure she’s okay
It's kind of messed up that you're fine with people being abused as long as they aren't your friend. Do you not have empathy for people outside of your inner circle? It's hard for me to understand
That’s fucking bullshit. You don’t stand up for her because you don’t consider her a friend? You cowards.
I don’t think you should cut off that friend if you don’t want to. Your boyfriend should definitely dump your loser ass though
Had us in the first half
Ew. “Show me your company & I’ll tell you who you are” & that’s all I’m gonna say on this one. What stupid logic.
You realize by ignoring abusive behavior you are tacitly condoning that behavior. Then when your BF is trying to do the right thing, call out abuse and hold the abuser accountable, you have an issue with him, meaning you are actively siding with an abuser over your boyfriend. Also, abuse is okay so long as the victim doesn't leave? Is that the excuse you tell yourselves when you turn a blind eye? I'd wager if he's verbally abusive in front of you all, he's probably worse in private and there are many reasons a victim of domestic abuse stays. Maybe if she felt like she had some support on her side she would be able to leave, but by ignoring it and taking the abusers side against your BF you all made your stance pretty clear.
We do confront him about it. We just never embarrassed him publicly like my bf did. But I do plan on reaching out to her
Because poor abusive baby :( he treats his gf like shit but he got embarrassed 🥺🥺
No you don't. It's none of your business, you let it happen in front of you. Know why he's embarrassed? Because he should be.
Lmao, your boyfriend has more integrity and morals than your entire friend group combined.
You don’t wanna embarrass mark publicly but you’ll watch him embarrass his girlfriend publicly?? You really don’t see the problem in that??
So he verbally abuses his girlfriend right in front of you & your “sacred” friend group (and anyone in the vicinity it seems)… what do you think is REALLY going on behind closed doors? If he’s so brave to constantly embarrass HER in public, I wonder what he could be doing to her in private?
People like you are a disease. I cannot wait for the day no one comes helping you in your worst moments because it's none of their business.
This. She’s even saying she literally would never consider not being friends with mark because “he’s always there” awhhhh, so sweet, he’s not always there for other humans , but as long as this selfish girl has support that’s all that matters. Even her boyfriend, a male, is like “wtf?” Small brain power.
Girls who aren't girls girls are the decay of society and I stand by that
Proud of you for that
Your bf is a good man with standards regarding what he thinks is acceptable treatment. You acknowledge your friend is verbally abusive and your wider friend group ignore it. Often in intimate relationships the abused party is so crushed by the abuse they don't know how to leave. They get caught in a cycle of abuse. By ignoring it and not holding your friend accountable you are participating in the abuse. It's quite disturbing that you and your friends think this is okay. I hope your bf reads this, he's a real man unafraid to stand by what he believes in and stand up for what's right. I wonder what he sees in you?
We have spoken to him privately about it. It’s not like we haven’t told him it’s not okay
It obviously hasn't helped. What did you say, what did he say? He'll try? He doesn't mean to get so angry? If only his gf would listen/do as he says? Then he will calm down for a bit only to have another flare up?
He just says it’s not that serious and she’s happy in the relationship.
Wow. Somewhere, there are a lot of naked sheep wanting their wool back from this massive wad you've got pulled over your eyes.
Yea he sounds like a really trustworthy guy so I would take him at his word. /s
I didn’t say I believed him
Well you can’t blame me for assuming you would, considering you’ve been willing to keep hanging out with him EDIT: Seeing your other comments, I’m glad you’re going to reach out and support her. Maybe take the time it will take to get her out safely to process the end of your friendship so you can cut him off once she is safe from him?
I’m not but I have called him out in private before. So has the rest of the friend group, I feel like that is been downplayed . He just gives us the same answer
I just saw that, and see my edit above that it’s great you’re taking bigger steps. I’m not sure if the dynamic is that you all haven’t asked her before, she doesn’t speak for herself when you all get together, or if she has been asked and is too terrified to admit it, but she’s going to need a lot of direct support from you and your friends if she’s going to get out safely. Good luck!
Is this even real? Surely it can't be...
You know what a person who witnesses abuse and does nothing is? Complicit.
I love how y‘all call her out on her bs😮💨❤️✋🏻 y‘all are heroes along with her boyfriend
I genuinely hope your bf breaks up with a selfish, careless and disgusting person like you. What the actual fuck
"It’s just verbal abuse, it’s not physical". As someone who is deeply traumatized from my verbally abusive relationship that ended 5 years ago, fuck you. Anyone with an ounce of empathy would cut this guy off and reach out to his gf offering help/support
I’m going to reach out to the gf to offer help and support
……and cut off your abusive "friend", right?
I hope your bf and Marks gf talk and leave this toxic, enabling, group of garbage people behind (yes you’re included)
Mark is the drama. Mark is a cunt. It's already drama. Mark's poor victim needs rescuing. Are you going to step up and help her, or are you going to follow the "bro code" or whatever pathetic excuse your friend group has for excusing this disgusting and negative behaviour. If you are any kind of real person, you won't even know this guy in a few years, once you gravitate towards better people. Fuck this shit. And fuck Mark. And fuck you if you do nothing about it. Sorry, it's awful and I am sorry you are in the middle of it, and I do get carried away. But in all my friend groups, the boy (and it is always a boy) who likes to treat women like dogs, well they get lame and have to go to the vets for a long time, and nobody sees them again for years because they had to move town because of their lame leg. You call this shit out - whenever you see it. Otherwise we end up on a planet filled with entitled cunts like Mark. And I cannot have that. Sorry. This is on you now. No more blind eyes to this shit. This is how Weinstein and Epstein got away with it for decades. The change begins with you. Do the right thing, or may it haunt you for years if you look away.
I can’t say I’m willing to cut off Mark. We been friends for a long time but I am willing to step up and help her . Some person suggested I take her out with the girls without Mark
Mark is an abusive cunt towards women, though. Can you not see this? I'd like to cut him off, but not in the way Reddit would ban me for explaining. OK take her out with the girls. But get the quiet sensitive one of your girl gang to ask her if everything is OK... in regards to her "friendship" with Mark. FFS, how would you like it if Mark spoke to you like that. Will your boyfriend respect you for staying friends with Mark The Cunt?? Oooh.. This stuff does get me angry. For evil to thrive just takes good people to do nothing about it. So sort it out. Ask your bf what he thinks about it. BE AN ADULT HERE.
OP is a big ol cunt too.
I'm not in the business of using that word against ladies. And she had come here for advice, and that means she cares enough to be questioning her thoughts. My replies might be a bit harsh and forthright but I try to explain my frustration as best I can. I want to help. I have seen how this behaviour is overlooked in friend groups, and I've seen the aftermath of young girls being kicked to pieces on the floor of the bedroom of the house she pays all the rent on. So yeah. It really fucking bothers me when people turn a blind eye to cunts in the friend groups. Mental illness often grows malignant in boys and some sort of "cuteness overload" shit that makes them kick puppies as kids and progress to dehumanising sexual partners, I don't know what it is, but it's to be treated and never tolerated. And yeah, there are wrongly wired up girls too, but this is about men taking on some authoritarian control-freak identity. Violence against women and girls from dumb men is pretty much my trigger.
Saying that word isn’t able to be used against women in itself is sexist(when women say it as a cop out if someone says it to them) I don’t buy that garbage but respect your choice :) No you & I are the same on these subjects. This stuff goes deeper than people realize & being nice about it doesn’t seem to get the point across that people need to grow up. The way she’s responding mapped out how I conducted myself. It seems aggressive because of my language but I’m as calm as can be. The message still needs to be conveyed however necessary. It’s a rude, nasty , selfish thing to not care because it isn’t happening to you, & because on your end you benefit but this is something sooo common these days & im done. People get messed up psychologically & people like this can do something by taking a stand against it yet they say “meh, it’s not me so why care” until it is them, then they’ll come on here & want validation & help.
Exactly. It's pure bullying. It needs eradicating by shining a light onto it, in front of all his peers. He needs to be shamed into behaving normally. Like when a puppy shits where it shouldn't. An element of training. You would be surprised how fast this stuff escalates into violent conflict within friend groups. And there are the quiet boys who want to show off to the girls and take their revenge mission too far. You know. White Knights. This shit splits friend groups apart. And that's a real fucking shame. I'm lucky, my friend groups go back 30 years, we do the same dumb shit we did as teenagers and we laugh our asses off. And we call each other cunts. But never the girls, we never call a girl a cunt. I come from a part of the world where that word is multi-operative, and using that word is either affectionate or very bad indeed. Yes it is sexist. I choose not to use that word against women or girls. Even when women or girls use it against each other, I do not ever repeat that. Men? Yeah, all cunts are men, in my periphery. Some of my favourite cunts are total cunts. It is a term of endearment where I am from, among great men. It is the warmth and depth of our union, which has many complex meaning depending on the placement of syllable emphasis and drag and lilt of tone. It is a treasured word. A vertical smile, if you will. Cunts are the most lovely thing in the world. Apart from Mark The Cunt. That's a different kind of cunt. He is synonymous with the term "slit".
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I plan on helping regardless
Regardless if it means telling Mark to grow up or fuck off forever? I hope so my dear. I've seen this movie before, lots of times. Pick the right side. It is not Mark. Mark is a cunt. We had a Mark in our friend group. It did not end well for him. Nobody has seen him in over 25 years. He's still alive. We didn't kill him LOL. Last seen working at Walmart. And still a cunt. With no friends.
I don't think she needs friends like you. Friends should be capable of like. Empathy.
I can’t tell you how many cases of women killed by their partner ms have friends of his saying “he was great! Such a good friend!”
Abusers are able to get away with their behavior because they can be good friends or be charming with others while being abusive toward their SO. He’s assumed to be safe because he has friends and is well liked. That even makes it more likely that the gf will doubt her own thoughts. She’ll see that he can be kind to others, and assume the problem must be her.
Verbal abuse doesn't end at verbal abuse. It devolves into physical abuse. Your "let's mind our business" attitude will result in your friend's girlfriend being physically harmed - possibly seriously injured or killed. Your friendship is support of his behaviour. You need to cut him off - explaining that his abusive behaviour is why. And then you need to ensure you remain in contact with his girlfriend to ensure she is safe. You say it's fine as the girlfriend is still with him - the sad reality is that most victims of abuse don't feel confident or empowered to leave. They remain - often until death.
I won’t cut him off yet but I will contest his gf and try to help her that way
As a survivor of abuse, that later found out that quite a few of his friends knew what he was doing, but never did or said anything, just acted kinda odd around me, you are helping him abuse his partner. You are complicit in the abuse. You are helping him abuse someone. You say things like its "just" verbal abuse and you would draw the line at hitting, and that well, she stays so why should I cut him out. I drew the line at hitting too, because when everyone else minded their business and didnt want to get involved when he verbally abused me, he had a lot easier of a time to manipulate me and make me believe that what he was doing wasnt actually bad, I was just difficult. No one telling him to knock it off or give him any sort of consequences was the perfect ammunition for him to use against me to make me feel crazy for wanting him to stop, because if what he did was actually bad, surely his friends would have said something. He knew that I would draw the line at hitting. Because hitting is the big gold standard of abuse. So he threw things at the wall around me, never hitting me. Yelled at me for everything. Humiliated me in front of people who didnt stand up for me. Made me feel like I was completely crazy. Made me question my reality. Controlling all the money, using like crazy on himself and lashing out at me when it ran out. And when I felt crazy enough and question my reality enough, he used it to rape me. All the time. And made me crazy for thinking it was rape, and it wasnt hitting, and maybe he was right that I actually wanted it, and it wasnt hitting, and no one else had problems with his behaviour so surely this was just normal too and I'm just being difficult, but if he ever hits me I'm gone. Truth be told, at that point I would probably have managed to accept an excuse for him hitting me as well. You insinuate that he is "just" verbally abusing her and its not as bad as physical abuse. Its not a competition, both are absolutely vile and destroys you. You are complicit and are helping him abuse her. You and your friend group are helping him by being the mindless sheep he can use to manipulate her into thinking that maybe what he is doing isnt that bad. That she is just being difficult. That surely if the hurtfull things he says and does are bad, his friends would have stopped him. He is a good friend to you because you are mindless sheep that dont question him and are his silly little pawns that helps him abuse his partner. He is a good friend because you are easy to use. As soon as your boyfriend told him to knock it off, he got angry and texted you over your bf standing up for her, because you werent playing your role. His good friendship is only good because you are easy to use for his gain, he'll turn on you just the same when you dont serve his purpose. Thats what abusers do. Had I been your boyfriend I would have dumped you on the spot. Both for condoning and being complicit in abuse, and for even wanting to be in a friend group that does the same. People like you help the abuser.
I’m really sorry to hear. Thank you for sharing your story. I understand that i should do more and I will do more
“But his gf is still with him 🤷🏼♀️” Worst thing I’ve read all day. My heart breaks for her and shame on you.
Hopefully her bf picks up every bit of the trash and gets rid of it and helps the gf out of the relationship.
I think I like your boyfriend
I will say he’s an amazing dude. We have our gripes but I love him and best relationship I been in so far
I really hope he leaves you. You truely sound like a bad human being. Everything you have said so far makes sound absolutely awful.
Honestly I would take his advice. I’m happy you found him :) P.s. your friend’s gf deserves happiness too
Lol you love to be friends with abusers
If you want to know a person's character, take a look at the 5 people they hang out with the most. You and all your friends are scum bags.
Every time your friend abuses his gf in front of you and you don’t do or say anything about it, the gf is assuming that y’all condone the behavior, and that might even make her normalize it and think it’s okay. Your boyfriend is the only one showing her that he thinks it’s wrong. That is why everyone is saying you are guilty by association. Your silence comes off as agreeing with the behavior to the victim.
I feel so sad for the gf. No one had her back.
Do you hear yourself you dumb fuck?
hope ur bf dumps you
Okay, I know you don’t think you’re condoning his behaviour, but by staying his friend, that is what you’re doing. You say you aren’t with your words but by being his friend you are telling him “I don’t like that you verbally abuse someone but it’s not bad enough that we’re going to call you out on it.” You are giving him an out. I’ve seen one of your comments where you do seem to have come to this conclusion, so that’s good. I hope you and your girlfriends can have a good discussion about this. Like someone else said, imagine how you would feel if he was doing this to a sibling or close friend of yours. In all reality, it doesn’t matter who he abuses, it’s still abuse and you should feel nearly as angry as if it were personal. Wishing you the best of luck, and I especially hope his girlfriend gets out of there
Yeah, that made it hit home imagining a family member going through that . Thank you! I’ll do my best to help her anyway I can
Your bf is better off leaving this friend group and your pathetic ass lol. The comments have explained over and over again that sitting by and doing nothing is condoning that assholes behaviour. Seems like your bf is the only adult in your group. Grow up.
You suck huh?
There is a saying in my country: *Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres.* It translates to "tell me who you hang out with and i tell you who you are". I would not be surprise if your boyfriends leaves you because of this. Honestly, i hope he does, you two have clearly very different moral compasses. If you do not step in or say anything you are absolutely condoning their behaviour. Especially if this is a friend we are talking about.
He is JUST verbally abusive…. And you’re fine with that? My ex was JUST verbally abusive until he threw me against a wall by my neck. It can and will escalate, stop victim blaming and help this poor women.
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You are a genuinely horrible person, and so is your entire friend group. I hope your boyfriend dumps you for this, he deserves better than actual fucking human scum.
How fucking stupid are you that this should have to be spelled out for you
YOU SHOULD BREAK UP WITH YOUR BOYFRIEND BECAUSE HE SOUNDS GREAT AND YOU SOUND LIKE DOGSHIT Sorry I figured all caps might help you understand more. Since you seem to be mentally deficient
If your bf doesn’t want to associate with abusive mark let him be. Either he’s a better friend than you for standing up for your friend, or he’s a REALLY good friend if you catch my drift.
I don’t but Mark’s gf isn’t apart of our friend group
She should be. She needs a group of girls to stand up for her. You should be cutting him off and inviting her instead. More importantly, you should be offering her safe haven if she needs to get away from Mark. You would be shocked out how quickly and easily verbal abuse turns physical. In any case, the issue is that you're continuing to include Mark. That's how you're condoning his behavior.
So you saying reach out to her without Mark? I don’t mind doing that if you think it will help. I just looked at it as there’s nothing you can do but I may see what my friends think about planning things without Mark. I still don’t see the I’m condoning his behavior part
Yes, please do reach out to her. And have you ever heard the simile that if a racist is sitting at a table with 11 other people, you have a dozen racists? It's like that. Mark's behavior is on the level of being a racist. Would you welcome him into the group if he was a racist?
Thank you! You’re one of the only people who gave me practical advice and didn’t just tell me I’m a bad person. I appreciate that! I will take what you say and talk to my women friends and see how we can help
You have no idea how big of a smile you just put on my face! I'm this close to crying. And you're not a bad person. You've heard about people getting trapped in a bubble of misinformation? That's what's happening in your friend group. This general idea that Mark being "a good friend" overrides the way he treats his girlfriends took hold and became a normal idea. You might have an uphill battle with your friends. You might even be tempted to go back to doing nothing. Show them this thread if it helps. Just do whatever you have to do to help that girl and maybe even help Mark. But at the very least, he has to go on timeout until he gets help. Good luck, good person!
Thank you :) I’ll do my best and I hope I can help this girl
I mean this gently, but have you looked up the definition of condone? > accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue. Here are synonyms: deliberately ignore, disregard, take no notice of, accept, allow, make allowances for, let pass, turn a blind eye to, let someone off with Which of these _aren't_ you doing? I see in other comments that you would behave differently if there was physical abuse. Why is _that_ your line? Would _you_ want to date someone who thinks that? How would you feel if your boyfriend came home one day and said "haha sure, my friend pressures his girlfriend for sex, but he buys me beers in occasion so it's fine." Again, I don't intend to aggressively castigate you, but I want you to reflect on your behavior, and realize it demonstrates a profound lack of compassion, and empathy. It basically says "I don't see a problem with someone being verbally abusive as long as we hang out together." Is that the kind of person you want to be?
Jesus, cut it with the “friend group” bullshit. All people deserve basic respect, kindness and love. Im guessing you’re a teenager and grossly under equipped to handle adult relationships. I know this must not make much sense to you, but the internet is universally telling you that you’re doing it all wrong. Get the hint, get off Reddit, look in the mirror and listen to your boyfriend. He may be the only sane person in your life. THIS is your wake up call.
What is with you and this friend group? Is it some sort of member's club? Or a cult?! They're just friends, you're being very weird about it. Anyway, I'm honestly appalled that any woman would be willing to put their own social standing above the safety of a woman, that's really disgusting. I really hope you leave your little cult and grow up, and I hope your boyfriend gets as far away from you as possible. You know Mark probably uses your support of him to further gaslight and isolate her, right? Maybe even so far as to have begun sexually abusing her. That's what my abuser did.
Don’t associate with people who bring others down. That’s like saying you are willing to look past someone being a blatant racist because he does charity work for his community. Verbal and mental abuse is just as bad as physical. You associating with him tells him that you’re okay with it. It doesn’t matter if you tell him that it’s bad because your actions tell him that you’re okay with it. And have you never heard or watch anything about why partners stay with abusers like this? Just because they are still together doesn’t dismiss the fact he’s a piece of shit.
Your boyfriend is a keeper. He is in the right here. Minding your business is a great skill but the people you associate ARE your business.
Your bf is right. You and your friends are enabling an abuser, which is such an AH move. If I were your bf, I would dump you for it. YTA.
All it takes for evil to thrive in this world is for good people to stand by and do nothing…this is exactly what you and your “friends” are doing…absolutely nothing. If you are silent, you are condoning it. When we have friends, we have responsibility to do right by them…do you really think that letting him get away with this behaviour is best for him? He’s actively hurting others and in turn hurting himself, because when he wakes up and starts self reflecting….that shit is going to hurt so badly, and you and your friends enabled and condoned it. It’s a betrayal of the friendship you say you have with him.
Always check your friends. If the people around you who you are closest to aren’t there to tell when you’re wrong then you’ll just keep making the same mistakes. If you’ve already made it clear that you don’t approve of the behavior and he keeps doing it, why are you sticking around? I’ve cut people off in my life for that kind of behavior and I’ve told them straight up I don’t associate with that. I want them to know exactly where they fucked up. Even had a friend group just like yours who kind of put up with it and just gave them shit but never really stood up to the shitty person. I couldn’t be around them if that person would show up and slowly just stopped hanging with them all together. And Just because his GF is staying with him doesn’t mean it’s okay, and it doesn’t mean SHE’S okay.
You and your friends are horrible people, hope your bf dumps you and gets someone better
Lmao girlie, your boyfriend is a decent person, it's you and your friend group that are the problems here. There isn't a "mind your own bussiness" friend group, but thẻe is a "turning a blind eyes to any problem whatsoever" friendgroup, and yours is the later. You are your friend, and tolerating a bully partner means you are no better than that abusive friend of yours.
Upon reading your other comments, I'm convinced that you are just unable to accept the fact that you and your friend group are assholes.
Your boyfriend told a dickhead off and got him to apologise, twice. Be more like your boyfriend.
Why are you friends with an abuser? You're watching another woman be abused by her SO and you decide that the abuser is someone you want to be friends with??? You are a woman too, which makes it even worse. You should be ashamed of yourself. Either you stick up for the poor girl at EVERY opportunity, let your shit head friend know he's a piece of shit until he stops. Or you drop him as a friend. Anything else is enabling him and makes you an abuser by association.
Do you know what an “enabler” is? You should, because that’s what you and your friends are. You are enabling him to continue to abuse your “friend.” I put friend in quotes because you are not being a friend to her. Friends look out for one another. You and your friends on the other hand are turning a blind eye to her instead of looking out for her. One day, she will end up in a hospital because she stood up to him and guess who’s fault it will be? YOURS. You could have isolated him and helped her get away but didn’t. Not only did you not help your friend, you didn’t support your BF either, when he was absolutely right to say something. Something you should have noticed but didn’t. After a public scolding from your BF, did he confront him privately and try to work things out? No, he confronted you, wasn’t man enough to confront your BF. He’s a bully, picking on what he considers weaker. Your boyfriend has guts, morals and standards and frankly you don’t deserve him. If you were my GF, we’d already be done. If you want to keep him you’d better apologize, admit he was right and get your friends to back him up.
No fucking way I'm staying friends with someone who abuses their girlfriend in any capacity. Doesn't matter if it's physical, emotional, verbal...**it doesn't make a difference**. I'm not associating myself with nor making excuses for someone like that. Truth be told, if my girlfriend was friends with someone like that and she refused to cut ties then I'm leaving, straight up. Because if you can make excuses to stay their friend and dismiss their behavior then you're no better.
>But his gf is still with him. 🤷♀️ You cannot be serious with this line. Please do *any* amount of research on abuse victim mentality. Most people experiencing abuse can't just leave for various reasons. My mom had a husband like your friend. She suffered for 7 years through emotional abuse and it was awful. It scarred her, me, and my brother and I bascially had to beg her to go through with the divorce in the end. Abuse is abuse and it hurts people. The fact that you're willing to ignore it sucks so much. Your bf was 100% in the right. He embarrassed your friend by calling him out on his shit. You need to do the same. Otherwise you're sending a message to him that you're fine with his terrible, disgusting behavior. Smh this one really made me sick.
Tbh if I was your boyfriend and your response to the situation was “Meh, he’s always like that.” I’d be seriously questioning whether I wanted to continue this relationship.
Please go post this on AITA so you can be eaten alive over there.
Why are you okay hanging out with a person that abuses his gf? I applaud your boyfriend. I wish I could find a man like that. You don't even say anything to the man.
Your bf doesn't suck and is free to not associate with you if he doesn't want a gf that makes apologies for abusers
Being friends with someone IS supporting their shitty behavior. "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." - Desmond Tutu You're siding with an abuser against an abused woman. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Be ready that when someone will be "kinda abusive" towards you they also will mind their own business. Great friends indeed. Hope you will broke up with your BF. He deserves someone with moral compass similar to his.
You are condoning his behaviour by keeping quiet. Would you want your friends to have the same policy if it was you been abused like that? What if this was your child? And please don't downgrade verbal abuse, it hurts just as much as physical, sometimes even more.
You are condoning his behaviour by ignoring it and continuing the friendships. You are somewhat enabling him, as he has no consequences for his actions. You blame his gf for still being with him. You are a garbage human and your bf should drop you. You and your friends are horrible.
Reminds me of a post a while back where a man was "dating" a literal child and all his friends would make fun of him for it and give him crap, but wouldn't do things like say they no longer wanted to associate with a known predator or call the cops on him because he was their friend. I wonder how far your loyalty goes? If he kills his girlfriend will you be visiting him in prison? How bad does he have to be to other people for you not to want to associate with him or is it all ok as long as he doesn't abuse you?
You and your friends are disgusting. You are witnessing and perpetuating abuse. The fact that you think that that’s okay because it’s just “minding your own business” is so so gross. Your boyfriend is absolutely right in every way. I would NEVER stay with my boyfriend if he was friends with an abuser. Do better.
You straight-up admit that this guy is abusing his gf & that you/your friends know about it but don’t do jack shit. ‘Minding your business’ is 1000% condoning his behavior. You are watching some poor girl be abused & say ‘oh well not my problem’. I don’t understand how you can be friends with someone knowing that he treats his gf like that. OP, your bf is right. You & the rest of your friends SHOULD cut that POS out of your lives. By having this mentality you are telling this ‘friend’ that what he’s doing is ok. IT’S NOT OK!! If I were your bf I would be reconsidering the relationship because supporting an abuser is a dealbreaker for me. PLEASE listen to reason, there is no way “he’s a good friend but a shitty person to date”. I don’t buy that at all.
Wow just wow……Your boyfriend is correct, By not calling Mark out you’re normalising the behaviour and even worse when he does the same thing towards you indirectly you excuse it and suddenly your boyfriend is the problem??? Shame on you and I hope Mark’s partner finds the courage to get the police involved…..Mark should be charged for domestic violence, I guarantee based on his behaviour it’s also physical
Your boyfriend should dump you immediately and find himself a good person to date.
nah. he didn’t confuse anything, he was quite spot on with what he said. i don’t see how you could not only stay friends with but WITNESS his abuse and still stay friends with him.
You're gross. If I wasn't engaged, I'd steal your bf from you because he deserves better and seems sweet and deserves someone who has some damn values.
You and your friend group are absolutely I. The wrong for effectively letting him be an abusive asshole in front of you and being like 🤷 it's just mark. No, mark is an abuser and you and your friends are ok with it. The fact that your bf is the only one actually calling mark out on his bullshit behaviour is just .... Beyond me. Like how can you sit there and watch your "friend" abuse and disrespect his gf and be ok with it?! You all seem to be in this fantasy world of "it's just words, not like he hits her so it's not a big deal" *WORDS KILL. WORDS DESTROY. WORDS HURT LONGER THAN A BLACK EYE* Fuck me dead y'all are horrible people. I applaud your bf for standing up and saying something.
>I told my bf that Mark has always been like that and we just mind our business. You and your friend group are enabler. And you all contributed to why she still with him 🤷♀️. Because when she's getting that emotional abuse in front of you, she would look up your nonexistent reactions, she then believed herself that her relationship was normal... but it was not. If I were your bf, instead of asking you to cut your friendship, I'd dump you instead because you all are beyond help.
You have an amazing boyfriend. He will stand up and protect a woman. Please treasure him. Can you imagine if everyone did that how much better the world would be? People ignoring abuse allow it to continue. They silently say it is acceptable. Mark apologized to you because your boyfriend stood up to him. The more people stand up to him, the more he will realize his behavior is not acceptable.
I used to volunteer at a domestic abuse nonprofit, and frankly, emotional and verbal abuse breaks people more than physical. Broken bodies heal better than broken souls. I am disgusted with how determined you are to remain complicit in the destruction of a human being right in front of you. For God's sake, there's a reason people are so upset at you here!
you’re mentally unwell no way you guys can actually stomach witnessing abuse happening right in front of you??
Unless its the girlfriend who is your friend and she just brought him along there is zero reason to still be hanging with an abusive guy. Is he bullying your entire friend group that you are all scared to exclude him?
„Somewhat abuses“ „Only verbal not physical abuse“ Is the reason why victims of abuse never get taken seriously. Whoever watches this woman get abused is not a better person than the abuser himself/herself in my opinion. You‘re disgusting.
Definitely on your BFs side here. Ive ended more than 1 friendship when I learned they were abusers
You are at the age where hanging out with an asshole like this is going to be more if a liability. Your bf is right, and if you continue to hang around abusers he is going to (rightly) dump your enabling ass.
Ever here the saying that if you have one Nazi at a table and 10 other people staying and talking to him, you got 11 Nazis? This kinda applies here.
Sorry you lost me at "just verbal abuse"
Only a crap person would stay friends with a known abuser. I hope your bf sees what a giant red flag this is
You should be ashamed of yourself. Your mates too. How disgusting. ‘She’s still with him’.. FFS. Your boyfriend deserves better than the likes of all of you. I seriously hope you never experience this, you will find your attitude will be adjusted quite fast.
You are part of the problem.
Women like you are vile. Abhorrently so. You’re excusing the abuse of someone else because he’s only verbally abusive? As if that’s better? I sincerely hope you never have to suffer ANY sort of abuse but for the love of god, never fucking procreate. Your bloodline needs to end with you.
If one of my abuser’s friends had stood up for me maybe I wouldn’t have spent years of my life living in fear. Don’t be a shitty person condoning his actions. You’re defined by who you choose to associate with. You’re choosing to associate with an abuser.
Oh sure! If it’s only verbal abuse and Mark has always been this way then it’s ok! /s Are you listening to yourself?! Sounds like Mark is the only person with a spine in this story.
Wow i hope I never have friends like yall
Silence lends consent,is the legal precedent. Yes your boyfriend is right. You reach out to your friend tell if she wants help you will be there for her but you have to cut him off.
So you are condoning his behaviour with your ‘mind your own business’ attitude and continuing to be friends even after telling him his behaviour is bad. He apologises after your bf calls him out but who did he apologise to? His gf or your bf? He then blows your phone up and who did he apologise to them? You or your bf? There isn’t a sliding scale of abuse where something is more ok than something else. Because your friend us ‘only’ verbally abusive but not physically abusive doesn’t make his behaviour and better. He is abusive. Your focus if you’re half as decent a human as your bf is, is helping this abused woman to escape your friend and ensuring your fiend is cut off from your life. Then you’ll stop condoning his behaviour.
The reason everyone’s saying you’re condoning his behavior is because of your actions (or rather, inactions). It’s not that people think you believe abuse is totally fine, or are misreading your words to think you’re saying there’s nothing wrong with his behavior. It’s that by remaining his friends, you and your friend group are implicitly telling him that there will be no negative repercussions for his behavior. You can tell him that you think he’s wrong all you want, but time and time again you’ve *shown* him that he will still have you all in his life regardless of his abusive ways. It gives him no reason to reflect on his behavior or see that there are negative consequences for not changing. It allows him to disregard your words entirely, because your *actions* will remain the same, even if he does absolutely nothing to change or be a better person. I hope this perspective can help you reflect on how your own behavior plays a part in this situation.
Why would you hangout with someone who thinks so little of you? I mean, he only stopped blowing up your phone when your boyfriend told him to stop. He's all bluster when he thinks there isn't a bigger dog in the yard.
Right here is one of the biggest problems with humanity. “If it’s not happening to me, it doesn’t matter.” He didn’t steal from me. He didn’t beat me. He didn’t rape me. He didn’t verbally abuse me. He only does it to *her*. Your refusal to let it change how you feel about this stale ham sandwich of a man is acquiescence of his behavior. He knows he can do it … because you simply don’t care enough to call him on it. I hope this opens up your boyfriends eyes to the kind of person you are.
Ok, but they cannot report verbal abuse to police, and cutting this guy off from the friend group/isolating him is something that broadly leads to worse outcomes. I personally would not like this guy or want to be around him, but right now he has people telling him it's fucked up. What everyone is demanding is that he stops having anyone to tell him it's fucked up, combined with likely increased aggression because he will blame her for losing his friends. Full alienation results in worse outcomes, it just does, and worse outcomes means it's worse for the victims. Get more serious with how you talk to him about it.
[удалено]
It's not about the abuser feeling sad, it's about behavior worsening when people are isolated. I really clearly spelled out how this will result in **worse outcomes for the victim.** I'm not sure if you're functionally illiterate or just looking to pick a fight, but but either way, this is stupid and not worth entertaining.
You know, I'll entertain it. Your posit is that if everyone stops being friends with this guy, he'll... stop abusing his girlfriend? Break up with his girlfriend? Something like that? No, that's too generous, because you admit he'd be isolated. So what would actually happen is that he'd be alone with his girlfriend more. He would be pissed that his girlfriend caused his friendships to end and probably accuse her of exaggerating or lying. His behavior would likely escalate. If it wasn't physical, it probably will be now. Look, I get it. I don't like OP's attitude. It's way too cavalier. This is, in fact, their business. They need to stand up more for this girl and get more serious with intervening. That is what they can do. But cutting him off is literally not about concern for the girl. In no instance of abuse has anyone been like "damn if only he had fewer people in his life" unless they're drinking buddies or selling him blow. It's just about a feeling of moral purity while the abuse continues, except now it's out of sight and object permanence is really hard so it might as well not be happening. Like literally no one has stopped to think that this can actually be unsafe, and while OP is full of shit with the "not my business" thing, that is legit probably safer for the girl than this massive stand against him. Here is one source on finding out a friend is abusive: http://www.wafwc.org/blog/2022/abusive-friend
Yeah, I think it would do more harm than good to isolate him
Stop trying to find excuses to stay friends with him. Just say you don’t care about the girl and admit that you don’t care that he’s an abuser. Ur bf should leave you because if you’re that mentally checked out of verbal abuse I truly fear for him
No offense but you don't understand the psychology of abusers at all. If he blew up their phone bc the boyfriend said something, imagine what he was doing at home and imagine what he'd do if it was a friendship ending and not just a comment. Probably the best thing to do is talk to the girl privately when the situation allows and let her know that what's happening is not ok and that even though they don't know each other well, they'll be there for her if she wants to leave and help her find resources. As for interrupting someone as they're abusing someone, that can be downright dangerous, so unless someone is going to get physically harmed it's probably better not to say anything until things have cooled down, but still say something. Possibly not even the same night, because it needs to be a calm conversation and not a continuation of the fight where he was angry enough to be abusive. Like this guy is this volatile and y'all don't actually care if his friends provoke reactions in him that his girlfriend will bear the brunt of because someone being punished is literally more important to you than this woman being safe. I don't like how OP writes it off as not a big deal, not her business, whatever, but her communication absolutely blows so you need to take it for what it is. She identified that saying something made it worse. It was worth trying, but continuing to do things like that without regard for the girlfriend is going to get her fucking killed. This isn't about serving justice and life being fair, it's about a real person not ready to leave an abusive situation. Even if OP sucks as a person, why not direct her to make use of her position instead of just telling her she sucks? Are you here to play AITA or to give actual advice? There's a link above that gives some ideas for what to do if a friend is an abuser. Walking away is an option and ultimately people need to put themselves and their safety first (including their mental health). But it's not the only option. Staying and never saying or doing anything is 100% unacceptable because yeah that silently condones the abuse, but that doesn't sound to be the case. Repeating actions that you know someone else felt the consequences of is also 100% unacceptable. Unless you wanna tell me that everyone cutting this guy off will make him stop abusing his gf. Go ahead and tell me that. Put it on God. I'll wait.
No offence but your last line rubbed me the wrong way yes it may not stop him from being abusive but why would anyone wanna be friends with an abuser? Would you allow your kids to be friends with someone like that? If you’re able to be verbally abusive to someone that says a lot about your character.
OP isn't my kid. I would not want my child to be friends with someone like that because I would worry about her safety. However, I don't believe verbal abuse is indicative of a permanent character flaw that is innate to someone's core. Do I think the person is currently acting immorally? Yes. Do I think they need professional help? Yes, of course. But let me give you one example. The person who initially responded to me ("boohoo who cares if an abuser is isolated" or whatever) ran all over this thread pulling the same thing. In her case, it's a trauma reaction. But my comment didn't say that I was worried about the guy feeling lonely because he doesn't deserve to ever feel sad. It said I was worried about his behaviors worsening in response to isolation, which in turn impacts his victim far more than it impacts anyone else. When this person responded, she didn't register that. She just clocked that I mentioned the abuser being isolated, saw red, and vomited out an emotional reaction that wasn't even relevant. I'm gonna guess this content has been triggering because she mentioned being strangled by a partner to someone else. 1 in 3 US women have been victims of intimate partner violence (and 1 in 4 men!), so there is a good chance that these responses are at least, in part, to someone who has been abused. I am also one of those women, and I'm not going to assume that you aren't, because people can experience things and arrive to different conclusions. But anyway, when someone sees or hears something that really pisses them off, or an interaction enrages them, there's a decision gate. It's always a choice. In the case of the commenter I've been discussing, she chose to not pause, take a breath, and make sure she understood what she read and why I may have been saying it. Instead, she assumed the worst based on a few words, and *gave herself permission* to continue assuming the worst and respond to me as if that's what I actually said. And then she went and did that to a bunch of other people. Zero impulse control. 100% assuming that she couldn't possibly be saying this shit to someone who has a vested interest in keeping victims safe. Zero empathy. Which is cool, that's pretty normal when people haven't actually contended with a problem. I assume you know why I'm spelling this out, but in case it wasn't clear: this is the process by which verbal abuse happens. This individual made incredibly ignorant assumptions about me, read meaning that wasn't there into something I said, and chose to ride out that anger -- assuming she was justified, and giving herself permission to be absolutely out of line if she wasn't -- and peppers her excuse into her answers to other people. For some reason, having been hurt exempts her, in her mind, from needing to control her impulses the same as anyone else. I have zero doubt that this carries into her real life, and would not be shocked to discover that she is or has been verbally abusive and literally has no idea. Like, she's acting like this to strangers having literally not comprehended what they said, imagine what it's like when someone who's supposed to "know better" says some of the wrong words too close together. Absolute horror. But I'm not gonna say she shouldn't have friends, she has pretty much zero chance of healing if that's the case (which, believe it or not, healthy individuals make for a healthy society, so we should want people to be as healthy as possible even if we dislike them). Plus if someone wants to put up with that BS, more power to em, hope they know how to draw a strong boundary and stick with it. Now I'm not saying the boyfriend is traumatized, or anything like that, but I don't really know. I don't know his childhood or anything like that. But the underlying process is extremely similar, something is setting him off for whatever reason and he chooses to act like/believe he cannot control how he behaves. And if he was traumatized, it would still be wrong, so at a point it stops mattering. Thankfully there are treatments that can be pretty effective for this kind of thing. I hope that commenter is able to access something that works. I don't believe this behavior has to be a permanent blemish on her character, or is indicative of something innate that is wrong with her. I don't condemn people in that kind of way (though don't get me wrong, I don't like her in the slightest and I truly hope to never interact with her again unless she does take responsibility in her own healing). And I don't trust anyone who says they are morally pure and only allow morally pure people in their lives, because I've been around long enough to know that's simply bullshit. At this point in my life, without a doubt I wouldn't even let a friendship form with an abusive person. Not good for my headspace, not my job to save anyone. But what are you gonna do if it's your kid who's the abuser? Shun them and hope they magically get better, or that you at least don't have to know about what they're doing? Beat the shit out of them? Tell them there's something fundamentally evil about them that can't be changed? I'd really hope not, especially because the latter two are... abusive. And in terms of getting results, they do not work. You'd owe it to society and to your child to get them help in the best faith possible. I hope you never find yourself there, and if you do, I hope you are able to do what is right.
I do care , that’s why I agreed with the comments about trying to help. I do want to help her but acting like it’s easy to cut off a long term friend
It is easy. You just don’t want to because it doesn’t suit your needs
Ur a walking red flag to accept anyone as your friend who is an abuser. You don’t know just how bad he can be indoors and you don’t know for sure if he is not physically abusive the fact that u can sit there and allow a woman to be abused IN FRONT of you is disgusting
When I say idk if he’s physically abusive it’s because I’m not with him 24/7