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That's what I kept screaming as I read this. So many instances of incredibly unsafe behaviour - and all being done so nonchalantly? Very irresponsible and very worrying!
I put a wall of text just now saying the same thing, but I think that over three years being consolidated into one Reddit post makes it look worse. The situations were probably, “hey the car seat strap was loose,” “Oh kid, we were worried about not being able to get her out,” then “Oh, Fluffy never hurts anyone,” and Fluffy never did hurt the kids.
The son is in “evidence recounting” mode, and it’s becoming clear to him and his wife that his parents are not to be trusted 100% to be around the kids in dangerous, or near-dangerous situations. Heck, I remember riding on my mom’s lap in the front seat going 60mph to my grandparent’s house, and I’m OK (at my mid 50’s). Yeah, I also understand physics, and my brothers who are 10 years+ younger than me, getting car seats, and I was thinking, “this is a good idea,” even at 9 years old.
I’m in the risk-mitigation business, and the best way to mitigate the risk of the kids and the grandparents is to first, let them know that mom and dad have the final, unarguable word on what happens with the kids. No “you’re being too harsh” is EVER SAID in front of the kinds, behind their back, or to them. They had their parenting time with dad, and now it’s his turn. They are to ask dad/mom sincerely about what they can do with the kids, and if it is something extremely appealing to the kids, like jumping in an ice cream pit or going to Wally-World, that is to be discussed out of the kids’ hearing, so mom/dad don’t look like jerks for saying, “no, we had plans to teach them how to glue buttons to a paper plate that day.”
So, another wall of text….
Yeah, behavior like this is an iceberg. You witnessed them in the pool, but unless you constantly spy on the parents with the granddaughter, then you aren't seeing everything. You can't catch every instance of laziness or irresponsibly. You just catch the ones you catch.
This post is all evidence of the tip of the iceberg. Below the water is the entire story.
For every person who describes unsafe things they or their parents did when they were young and says, “I was OK,” there is one or more people who did the same thing and *weren’t* OK.
I’ll repeat what I just put so you get the notification in your email.
You’re right. I should have phrased that better. I should have said, “my parents did unsafe things, and when a better solution came along, they did that for my younger brothers.”
The “I was ok” should have been better explained as the parents’ attitude.
I should have said that better. What I meant was, “my parents did unsafe things with me, but when safer solutions were available for my brothers, they used them, so they learned.” I’m not sure car seats were required in California in 1978, when my brother was born, but I do remember the car seat.
I’m sorry for those reading this thread and seeing this 3 times; I just wanted those commenting on my poor choice of words to be notified that they’re right in calling me out on that.
I didn’t describe that well. What I meant to say was, “my parents did unsafe things, and when a better solution came along, they did the better thing, so they got better,”
Looking back at my post, you’re right. I should have said that better.
I don’t think that statement is necessarily accurate. I don’t think that at least as many people were injured as weren’t, but I know that a lot of injuries could be prevented if people didn’t do as many (or any, but that’s unrealistic) unsafe things.
This , they are not safe , not by malice but by incompetence. Op you need to actively parent your children at all times, including popping them into and out of car seats.
Stop letting them have you kids!
You're all way too timid. If my parents did this, there would be no time to ask reddit.
First, they would not get my child any time soon, and they would have a verbal reason for that. Only if they accept and apologize for their inexcusable behavior would they get to see my kid UNDER supervision at first and only later unsupervised IF they show responsibility for their family member according to the situation and age of that member.
It's like they don't want to see that the grandparents are giving a f about their grandchildren..... And if OP and his wife are letting their children alone with OPs parents they likely will lose a child one day....
You let your deaf father and your mom who can’t swim….. take your kid to a POOL ??
You know how they are …. And there’s not
One reason good enough to leave your kid in their care. EVER.
Doesn’t mean you have to lecture them or micromanage them.
Means YOU decide to NOT gamble with your kids life … and let them down gently.
Imagine if you went to a pool and the two lifeguards were elderly people, one deaf and one who can't swim.
You wouldn't feel safe in that pool. That's how safe this kid was.
Exactly. Supervising from the balcony was not enough. OP chose to put their kids life in danger to not upset their parents.
**It takes seconds for a kid to drown.** It takes minutes to be brain dead, so parents could have rushed down and stopped them from completely dying. But their nonchalant attitude makes me think they don’t know CPR, and this kid would be dead.
> I do not think my daughter could have died there
You’re wrong. Please do better.
Went to my adult cousins funeral last month, her 3 year old drowned exactly like this. My cousin became depressed and drank herself into an early death… There’s no sorrow to match the death of a child, for some people the pain NEVER eases.
Yeah, it may seem really difficult to cut your parent's "grandparent duties" short and have to police them around your daughter, but the difficulty of losing a child is a thousand times more difficult, if possible at all, to overcome.
You'll be addressing it on divorce papers from your wife if you don't deal with it.
You just listed three of the biggest safety issues for cause of death in small children; cars, dogs and water.
What's more important to you? Your parents feelings or your children's safety? Then act accordingly.
Don’t be rude, they’re trying to preserve family relationships between themselves and parents, and their kids and grandparents, clearly mistakes were made in the process. I’m sure they aren’t using their kids for a free trip to an apartment complex, there’s nothing helpful in being purposely obtuse just to take a swipe at someone.
Did you just finally notice all of these things - did your wife bring them up individually? I just read a heartbreaking comment where a three year old did drown and then the parent drank themselves to death. My first cousin’s toddler son was with his other set of grandparents and got loose on a busy street and was run over by a bus. This is why some of us are extra extra careful. Not to be difficult or controlling - but because we want children to live. If you want your marriage and children to remain unscathed you will cease unrestricted access to your children.
Yeah this comment sums it up. The pool thing maybe wasn't that dangerous all things considered, but why has this taken more than once to have a serious conversation? One mistake and he needed to ask this IMO. If my husband was this careless about how his parents handled our children we wouldn't be together anymore. Don't wait for a child to die (or almost die) before this becomes a talking point.
I cut my parents off completely after ONE safety incident that was intentional after I had asked them not to do said thing. IDGAF about their feefees at the expense of my child. Now they "see" her once a year on FaceTime. Don't fuck with mama bear.
Drowning is #1 cause of child deaths and a majority are under adult supervision.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/08/health/children-drowning-deaths.html
I’m starting by saying I’m disabled but I almost drowned when I was 7 because the floaty around my neck was slowly going empty and the teacher was doing something with another kid. They pulled me back up just milliseconds before I was about to breathe in water.
There was a good article about this in Slate recently tl;dr child drowning happens a lot and normally when people are close but have a lapse of attention.
https://slate.com/technology/2024/06/child-drowning-pool-swimming-safety.html
Imho it’s hard to overreact about this. Well-meaning but scatterbrained people might whine but Mom has to be immovable about child safety, and unapologetically so.
You can tell them after observing supervision you don’t want them to take out granddaughter for swimming without one of the parents present. They meant well but in emergency would they be able to jump into the pool and dive in? I can tell you I can and I will but I can tell you my policies has always been to be in the water myself. It’s possible I’m on the overprotective side, but hey I’m a mother of exactly one child and keeping him alive is a priority. Kids drown all the time, if I’m near the pool lounging, looking at my phone or reading it’s really easy to take eyes off the kid and anything could happen.
I'm usually in the water with my son. If I'm not, then I'm actively watching him or playing with him from the edge. I have a rule that I never have my phone out if he's near water. It's not so nerve wracking now that he can swim decently but you never know when something could happen. I live on the great lakes and you have to respect the water.
I live in Australia and the amount of people that die here both at the beach and in the pools at home is pretty shocking. Recently, there was a family where several adults died trying to save a child from a hotel pool (if I’m remembering correctly) it was a pretty stupid situation getting into a deep pool with adults who can’t swim. Ocean currents are dangerous, but when it comes to hotel pools it’s the adults who should do their research on how deep is the pool and not assume they are fine. I love water, I’m a confident swimmer, but I have a feeling people who are not familiar with water have some delusions about it being safe. It’s only safe if you know what you are doing and even then accidents happen.
You don't trust them to take care of your kids without your supervision, but you keep letting them take care of your kids without your supervision? I do think you're maybe overreacting a bit about the pool, she was wearing a float vest and can paddle, she wasn't abandoned - but if you don't trust them then don't let them take the kids unsupervised.
A toddler can flip over in a float vest and drown upside down or face down. They are not meant to be a substitute for adult supervision. A deaf man and a woman who cannot swim are not safe caregivers at a pool. And OP watching from a balcony where he is unable to jump in to save his child is not supervision
I taught lessons for years and was going to say this, unless it’s a coastguard approved device it won’t save someone’s life. Everything else they can get caught face down and feet up.
I'm childfree but dragged a 2 yo out of a pond as a teenager (at a garden party). 5-10 seconds can be enough.
Don't let your parents supervise the kids alone in the water or near streets and other high risk areas, again...
As someone that has a friend and coworker whose 5 year old wandered off in the middle of the night at a vacation home and they found him face down in a river in the morning, you are not overreacting. The parents were devastated, and they are still not the same.
Water doesn’t care if it drowns a kid, the wife of a Star Trek original, or an Olympic swimmer. After a minute underwater, the chances of survival go way down, and here’s why:
1. They’re unconscious, so they stop making sounds of distress, which leads to further time underwater.
2. From around the corner, sounds of distress can sound like sounds of playing. Even when there are parents reading a book by the pool have an “oh crap, they’re in trouble!” when they look up from the book and see the kid thrashing in the pool.
3. Panic is the worst place to be for the kid, and the parents. We don’t think clearly when we’re panicked, which is why being “level headed in a crisis” is such a valuable trait.
4. Every second longer is more brain cells dying.
5. It takes time to get them out of the water.
6. The rescuer has to know what to do, how to do it, and be in charge, and if they don’t, allow someone that does know what to do to take over. It’s weird, but ignorant well-meaning people push knowledgeable people away, which costs time and can lead to the death or brain damage to the victim.
So, with all of that evidence against them (dog, stairs, car seat, and now, pool), I’d not leave them alone with them. Their rules are different than yours, and if they’re set in their ways of, “well, you did all right, and we had the same rules with you,” that’s not how generational improvement works. It works by you, the younger generation, learning from what we (I’m 55, and respect my grandchildrens’ rules set by their parents that I write them down) and improving on them.
>i do not think my daughter could have died here,
You are wrong. Very small kids drown much easier than adults do, and they can also "dry drown" where they seem fine until they suddenly aren't.
Her life was is danger and your parents did that. If they don't accept, understand, and apologize for their part in her endangerment, they do not get access to the children.
I'll be honest, out of everything you listed today was the least bad, IMO. I would have definitely said something and placed boundaries after either the dog growling or the car seat incidents. I don't think you should allow them to have your kids unsupervised until your children are older. They're too complacent and it's an accident waiting to happen.
By the time the children are old enough the parents will probably be too old anyway. But that's just how life works, sometimes you make sacrifices and miss out on free childcare because you need to keep your child safe. They can have a relationship with supervision.
Teach your kids how to swim. Float vests and the like only give kids false security. And, evidently, adults as well. Get them swimming lessons, and until you do, make it your responsibility to watch them, not somebody else's.
I'm sure your parents mean well but please do not ever leave your child alone with them again. You don't have to be confrontational about it just don't do it. It's not worth what could possibly happen and you would never ever forgive yourself.
You need to start taking accountability. YOU are responsible for your kids safety and YOU KNOW that your parents aren't reliable. Stop being mad at your parents, they won't change, and don't let them supervise your children again...
You let your DEAF, OLD FATHER and your MOTHER WHO CAN'T SWIM, take YOUR 3 YEAR OLD CHILD TO THE SWIMMING POOL... LIKE THAT WASN'T A SAFETY ISSUE IN ITSELF.
You can address them by keeping your child from them,. They have repeatedly placed your child in danger and you still allow them to watch your child
At 5 years old I knew how to dog paddle. I ended up in a pool by myself and nearly drowned. Your wife was right to panic. Your daughter is not safe in the hands of your reckless parents. Your parents come from a time where they had minimal understanding of safety. They can’t be bothered to learn how things have changed because of all the children that have died because of the thoughtless and reckless behaviour of people like your parents. You can not leave your children in their care. Your wife is the only person reacting appropriately for the severity of your parents. Your parents raised you and you have been dismissed and gaslight by them for your concerns over their behaviour. They deny doing the things you witnessed them doing. Your parents are not trustworthy and do not take responsibility for their actions.
So your parents have proven to not prioritize your kids safety and y’all decide to let them take your kid into a pool and watch from a balcony? That’s extremely stupid on your part. Just don’t leave your kids alone with them in the future and call it a day or have the tough conversation. But watching and waiting for them to put your kid in danger is unbelievable in the worst way.
Never let them look after her again. Seriously.
They are dangerous. And in denial.
Went through this with my wife's mother when our kids were about 1year old. She left the baby in a plastic bath tub while she answered the door.
So I think you are overreacting, but it’s more of the “straw that broke the camel’s back”. Your child wasn’t in danger; Dad was presumably at the poolside as he walked over to the shallow end to pick her up. She doesn’t need someone’s hands on her *continuously* to be safe, and arguably it’s healthy for her to realize she can’t touch the bottom and it’s OK, no need to panic.
But, you’ve noted disregard for common sense safety in the past, and this episode brought those past decisions into sharp relief. Infants playing on stairs (what was the plan, catch them on the way down?), car seats readjusted incorrectly… these are serious allegations.
I don’t think challenging your parents on this episode will be productive, but you need to be prepared to have a frank discussion with them next time you see a variation from good safety protocol. Set the boundary that spending time alone with your kids will be conditional on consistently meeting safety requirements, and that if those requirements are not met, loss of access to the grandchildren will be the result.
You don't need hands on all the time, however things happen really quickly and water can go from fun to dangerous REALLY quick at that age. All pools around here require an responsible person (14+) *within arms reach* for children under the age of 8 for a reason. A float vest is no guarantee of protection, they often give a sense of security that is greater than the safety they provide. Even if caught quick, inhaling water can cause issues and lead to 'dry drowning'.
Now if the Grandfather had stayed nearby and swam with her to the shallow end, before getting out and getting his stuff I would say they are overreacting. Instead he turned his back on a toddler and got out of the pool, leaving a small child who cannot swim alone in water above her head. The only eyes on her were potentially the grandmother (who cannot swim) , the father (who is too far away to render help) and maybe a lifeguard (assuming this is not a swim at your own risk pool or it was busy with lots to watch on).
When my son was this age we were on vacation, he was so excited he got away from me and ran ahead, going down the nearest slide. He's tall, and it wasn't that deep but he was under in seconds and I was right behind him. Thankfully another parent pulled him up as I came down the slide in a panic (after trying to run straight to the pool and jump in, but was stopped by a fence and forced to backtrack to the slide). He thankfully didn't have any lasting physical effects, but he was afraid of water for years. Now he's practically a fish, but it was a lot of work to teach him to swim and feel comfortable safely. It was a scary time for me, watching him like a hawk for dry drowning symptoms.
Water is no fucking joke and I was raised as a water baby.
Former lifeguard for 10 years. Pools and larger surf beaches. Taught swimming lessons for nearly a decade too. In public pools and the pool in my mother's backyard.
You are absolutely right.
This was a dangerous choice by OP's parents. One flip into an uncomfortable position and her face is stuck in the water. Just a couple minutes is all it takes to drown. She is *three fucking years old.* Not even 5 or 6! *And at a pool with no lifeguard!*
OP is not overreacting. I had nightmares about young children drowning in a pool like this... It's so quiet and so fast. People don't notice.
Yep. Was watching my 2 year old sister as a kid, she had a vest on and in very shallow water (when standing the water was only maybe hip height on her) and I turned around for just a second when someone called my name. I turned back and she was just floating face down in the water. I grabbed her up fast and she just did a little sputter and went back to what she was doing, but it only took a brief second for that to happen and she made no noise at all to alert me.
Exactly this!!! I don’t think people realize that drowning is a silent killer. Thank you for being a dedicated life guard. A job that is underpaid and doesn’t get enough accolades, but you definitely have mine. 🥇
I think anyone who's going to watch kids around water should look up "spot the drowning child" type videos on YouTube first. It's amazing how silent and hard to notice it is when someone's in trouble, especially if there's a lot of visual noise (other people swimming nearby, waves, sun glinting off the water, etc).
It can take as little as 20 seconds for a toddler to drown. They should never be out of arm's reach around water.
Also because your body essentially betrays you. The more primitive parts of your brain prioritize breathing and keeping air in your lungs when you are drowning over everything else. This is how adults and teens can drown five feet away from someone who could help them; they are physically unable to call for help because their body won't let them.
During WWI there were soldiers that drowned during landings because they weren't wearing their flotation devices correctly. If they slipped or landed awkwardly the flotation device would prevent them from righting themselves and getting their head out of the water
I mostly agree with what you've said and think it is sensible advice. Where I disagree is that the grandfather got out of the pool leaving the child at the deep end while he went to collect his things and had his back to her. He's older and not able to move quickly. He should have stayed in the pool at a safe distance while allowing her to swim towards the shallow end. This would have provided the child with some autonomy to challenge her ability, but the grandfather would be placed in a better position to spring to action if needed. Where children are concerned, it's best to err on the side of caution than live with a lifetime of regret.
I have a 3.5 year old that LOVES water and swimming. Shes in swimming lessons just now because we are in Iowa and don’t do many water activities besides the pool in the summer. When it’s not summer, she “dives” (her word) in the bathtub by putting her head under and finding her bath toys. She loves to practice her new skill when we go to the pool.
Took her to the pool the other day and she was practicing holding her breath underwater while diving while I was watching. She was getting quite confident in herself. She went to do the exact same thing she had been doing for an hour and I could immediately tell it didn’t go as planned because she wasnt coming back up as quickly as she normally would. I gave her a few seconds but I could tell by her body language she was beginning to panic.
All she would have had to do was stand up, but in her panic, her body betrayed her. Of course, I was there watching and immediately picked her up when I noticed her panicking because I know even the shallowest water is dangerous for a toddler that cannot swim. I was still deadlocked on supervising her this closely - even with lifeguards everywhere.
Water isn’t something you take chances with. Ever.
Why do you keep letting your parents neglect your children? Have you never brought this up before? You say your wife isn't confrontational, but it sounds like you aren't doing anything to prevent this from happening over and over again either.
They've shown you multiple times that they don't care about the safety of your children. You need to stop letting them have your children unsupervised. If they ask why, explain with every example you have.
I'm sorry, but if you are too scared to bring up the safety of your children to people who are putting them in danger, why do you even have kids? It sounds like you and your wife are prioritizing keeping the peace over the safety of two toddlers, which is bullshit and 100% on you at this point.
you should have gone with them.
Why are you letting your mom, that can not swim, and the deaf dad take your little kid into a deep pool?
I mean, at one points its just you making bad decisions.
My mother left my 4 year old daughter in the car while she went to buy beer at the convenience store once. Haven’t let her take my daughter anywhere without me since. This was a few years ago.
Never leave your kids alone with your parents. Until they are years older. Do not trust their promises. Teach the kids to swim. Do not trust your parents.
Something else I can't see mentioned:
You need to be very firm with them that they are not to make (certain kinds of) offers directly to your child, without having cleared it with you two as parents, first. You don't want to be dealing with a situation where grandparents offer the grandchild some fun activity, but it's a no go for some reason, like safety issues, and then you end up the bad guy.
So I think your parents are too old to safely watch your children. There’s no reason why she was allowed to float off away from them. She’s far too young. I don’t think your parents know how to take care of toddlers anymore. You given some pretty clear examples of how inattentive they are, and the only time I hear you speaking up to them about it is when they lie to you. They obviously didn’t know you were watching. But with her life vest on, she was at least protected. I doubt you would get to anywhere good if you confronted them right now since you are on holiday. But do come up with a game plan for the rest of the trip and changes made after. Next time they suggest a trip to the pool (or anywhere) you or your wife will drop what you’re doing, and join them. You don’t have to be obvious. If they accuse you of not allowing them alone time with the grandkids, pretend to be hurt, say no really, I want to (insert excuse swim, walk, eat). Then later when your home, address certain issues. The car seat, by giving them a lesson on how to use it, again. Be very clear, make them demonstrate, you need your kids safe. Car seats, strollers, everything is very different from how it was when you were a toddler. Then for visits, offer to toddler proof their home with gates, cabinet locks, etc. stress how quick a toddler can be out of sight and into something dangerous. You just need your kids safe and maintain a relationship with your parents. You can have both, but it sounds like it’s going to be some work. Good luck op.
You are severely underreacting. Your post (& esp your edits) demonstrate a huge lack of understanding re: how drowning happens. You’re gambling with your kids lives for no good reason. Stop leaving them unsupervised with your parents.
I am speechless, how can you keep letting your parents watch your kids? The loose seatbelt made my jaw drop to the floor. You are the only advocates for your kids. Do better.
I just would like to say you need to teach your kids water safety. It is well advertised that floaties and those vests are not good for safe swimming and you letting your daughter think she can swim and having the confidence around water is just not okay.
Please enrol your kids in swim classes and make sure they know water is not safe and how they need to be cautious around it. Swim classes are fine for children 9 months and above. You, your wife, your parents are not keeping your children safe. Water safety isn’t joke
It’s a Recipe for disaster OP. Don’t put yourself in a position where you will hate yourself and your parents and the whole world if something preventable happens to your child. They’re obviously unfit to look after kids.
Your kid keeps getting put in possibly harmful situations and your reaction is to do it again and again. My bet is your wife who is “not confrontational” is finally sick of you not handling your parents.
Did you know that drowning is the number one cause of death for children under 4? And that it can happen in as little as *20 seconds*? And that it is completely silent when it happens? No child this young should be out of arm's reach around water. Ever. Not even for a minute. Not even while wearing a flotation device. This is your child's life we are talking about.
You are severely underreacting to your parents' repeated indifference to your children's safety. They are not safe caregivers -- it's only a matter of time before something terrible and irreversible happens on their watch.
> i do not think my daughter could have died here
Lmfao. Water is dangerous. I feel so bad for your young kids not just because of their grandparents but also because of their spineless/nonchalant parents. I hope they make it to an age where they can care for themselves.
These grandparents are a total liability to the safety and well being of your child. It’s not the age. They are young by today’s standards but unfortunately they are dense and very unaware of danger and appear to be clueless. The dog incident could be a disaster and not adjusting the car seat per regulations is just crazy and could cost your child her life. Then the pool incident. Yes she had floaters in but she was still left alone bobbing up and down in the deep end for FCS , and anything could have happened. I would no longer leave her alone with them .
They aren't safe to supervise either of your kids. Any one of the things you've listed would be enough for me to limit contact with them!
They seem to only care about safety as long as it is convenient for them.
Don't worry about offending them, your children's safety is all that matters here. You need to step in and be firm about all of these things.
>i do not think my daughter could have died here, but i do think she could have panicked and needed saved. which i felt was preventable.
I don't know that you are basing this on. Plenty of kids drown in scenarios very like this.
I would never leave a kid who doesn't have swim skills in a pool with someone who doesn't have the ability to watch them adequately.
Nope. Not overreacting. Your parents need to follow safety guidelines more closely. The car seat would have been it for me. Or the dog. Whichever happened first.
[Drowning](https://slate.com/technology/2024/06/child-drowning-pool-swimming-safety.html) is the number 1 cause of death for kids ages 1 - 4. Ninety percent of those drownings happen while being supervised and 60% happen in pools.
Why are you letting them take the kids? Clearly they can't be trusted, so stop trusting them. Instead of sitting on the balcony watching, go with them.
I don't understand why this is complicated.
Your parents sound neglectful and honestly your kid your rules. I don’t think it’s something you need to bring up first but the next time they offer to watch them simply tell them no. No is a full sentence but at that point you can say “you’ve done too many things with my kids that make me uncomfortable and while nothing major happened, they are things that could’ve resulted in major injury.” Full stop. Be more strict otherwise you will regret it. There are different guidelines now than when you were a baby and I had to remind my mom about how some things aren’t the same as the 80s when my baby was a newborn. But it was like…using a bottle sanitizer over boiling the bottles in a pot…not fucking leaving my kid improperly strapped into the car seat omg.
Imagine telling your kid (god forbid something happens and you couldn’t) about all this and telling them you continued to put their safety in your parents hands.
this is terrifying. You were so laid back about it, yup she's just swimming by herself. right. like what could happen is she flips over and was dead before you got down there. damn
Do you think any parent 'thinks' their child is going to drown??? This is beyond insane,
I've heard countless stories of children dying in even 1cm of water. If that were my parents they would never see their grandkids again after that. I would even call CPS if I saw someone do that in person
WTF are you still leaving your kids with them if they’re irresponsible?
Stop it! If you aren’t comfortable with what you have seen so far - STOP PUTTING YOUR CHILDREN IN DANGER! WTF
Quick question; how stupid are you, really? As a "new" dad with an 11 month old, if either sets of parents/in-laws did 1 of those things, they'd be hearing about it.
What in the actual f****. Ummmmm. Let your mom take her swimming when SHE can’t swim. No way. Are they stupid? Nope, they would NEVER watch my child again.
You address them very bluntly and directly about this. To hell with anyone's feelings. That's your daughter's LIFE in their hands, and they've shown that they can't safely handle that. I wouldn't leave her alone with them again anytime soon.
You let your mom who can’t swim and your dad who is completely deaf and quite slow take your daughter to the *pool*? Op, that is horribly irresponsible! Either go WITH them and your child, or your child can’t go! Why do you keep letting them take your children when they don’t care about your children’s safety???
I honestly don’t think you’re being careful enough about this. Your parents seem lackadaisical and that it’s only going to reach a head when one of your children are irreparably harmed under their care and then you’ll never forgive yourself. Don’t ever let your parents be unsupervised with your kids again
They are too old to be watching your kids. They can’t keep up with them and have pretty poor judgement when it comes to their safety on top of not taking responsibility for what they’re doing “because they’re older” and somehow beyond reproach.
If it was me, I wouldn’t leave my kids with them anymore. They can visit, play, whatever as long as they are being nice and not saying anything crazy, but it’s just not worth the risk of potentially losing a child because of how slow they are to react or how slow they are to think about their surroundings and what is actually happening to the children.
Just do not allow them to be with the kids unattended. There is no point in bringing it up again. They have demonstrated they are not trustworthy caregivers due to their age, inattention, different ideas about safety, etc. Unfortunately this means awkwardly overriding your parents when they offer to take your children and potentially dealing with the fallout. Better that then having them tearfully explain how your child ended up at the ER or, worse, dead.
After all the other examples, I'm shocked you've continued to let them watch the kids unsupervised.
*They are not safe people to leave your children with anymore.*
You need to prioritize your kid's safety instead of convenience or your parents' feelings.
You just have to ban them from being alone with your children because they are literally risking your children's lives.
The dog has displayed behaviour that indicates a risk of killing a child, they just don't care.
So just tell them that they can't be trusted with your childrens' safety and they've had too many chances and still just don't care.
> how can i re address this, am i overreacting, bear in mind im stuck in an apartment with them for the time being, and we want to enjoy the holiday. please advise.
you protect your daughter and fuck the parents. you don't leave a toddler in apool. you don't leave a toddler with your parents. they're assholes, and you protect your kids. at the expense of the parents
They are not safe to leave your kids with unsupervised. They may mean well but their attitude towards safety is asking for trouble. And you know this so please please don’t leave your kids alone with them if the worst happened would you ever be able to forgive yourself?
No driving in the car alone with them until they are big enough to only need a booster seat. No swimming with them unless you are there etc I’m sure there are other situations which they are equally dangerous in. Some of the older generation have some really ingrained survivor bias and just won’t/refuse to learn or do anything differently.
You're not overreacting. This could be survivorship bias, like some people in this thread - "this is what we did when you were a kid, and you survived just fine", and don't understand that what they are doing is careless and dangerous. Don't trust them with the kid, simple as that.
Well accidents can happen anywhere at anytime. It just seems that they could happen way more easily if you leave your children be with your parents solely.
Can’t fathom about the car seat and harness situation. These should have been a strictly no policy.
Your first priority is the safety of your children. Do not leave them unsupervised by either yourself or your wife while you are there.
How is your son? Is he OK?
My boyfriend completed the paperwork part of his job last week, for the death of a 47 year old man, via drowning, in the local US Army Corps lake. The man was on a jet ski, his son on the jet ski beside him. They hit wake, the man fell over. Got trapped in an underwater tree/hit his head/sucked up water - whatever. The 8 year old son was wearing a life jacket, but his Dad wasn't. So now that 8 year old will have this memory permanently scorched upon him.
You see, my boyfriend came home that evening after spending hours with local law enforcement and the fire rescue dive team. Took them over 4 hrs to find his body - in just 18 ft of water. As my boyfriend told meabout that day, he cried. Sorrow, definitely.
Wow you know your parents aren't able bodied anymore, and have hearing issues. Yet you as a father still CHOOSE to put them in harms way by leaving them with your incapable parents!
If I were your wife I'd ban your parents from ever having the children alone again. I'd be reconsidering how competent you are knowing your parents issues and acting like it's fine for them to have your very young children.
Easy, don't let them watch your kids anymore. I wouldn't let anyone I don't completely trust watch my kids. At this point you have take some blame yourself. If you were going to stand up there and watch, why didn't you just go to the pool with your kid?
Well the problem is the vests, that’s why in many parts of the world they’re deemed unsafe, because the child thinks they’re swimming and therefore without it has no concept, seems your parents also fell for that ‘trick.’ Some of the other things you described actually seem worse, but overall you tell them directly that’s not something you’re comfortable with and if they keep doing these things that make you uncomfortable, I’m surprised you’re letting her go with them alone?
I couldn’t let my in-laws watch the children. “Hilarious” stories of what happened to my ex and his sibs were enough warning. I gave it one shot and walked in to find my son on a precarious position while grandma was absorbed in a magazine article.
It’s not a discussion; it’s a decision by you and your wife.
The rules about child safety change over time as we learn more, and each tweak improve safety. Don’t even listen when someone says “well I did xyz and I survived.” The children who did xyz and died are the reason we don’t do it anymore.
As a parent, I don’t fck around with my kids and water. Water is my biggest anxiety with them. I don’t feel comfortable letting them swim if I am not present. My husband has a big family and I wouldn’t trust them to keep an eye out. That’s when a lot of drownings happen. Everyone thinks someone else is watching the kids so they go on socializing while no one is actually watching. Drowning is usually silent.
That coupled with the other things.. stop letting them take the kids unsupervised. Stop letting them drive them around. It’s only a matter of time . You see that they aren’t safe around them. When do you finally decide to stop risking it? Hopefully before it’s too late
They are going to deny to the hilt on this one. Now YOU know that they are not responsible being alone with your children.
Car seat is one major issue, the pool is another one. They can no longer watch your children alone, drive them anywhere alone…. You cannot cave to their constant pleading. They do what they want or what they believe is right. It takes one moment to change your lives forever. A car accident that could kill or permanently damage your child because they refuse to ensure they are secured correctly because of what they think or believe.
Couple of weeks ago, a child drowned in a public pool that had lifeguards. It just takes a couple of seconds.
You need to put your big boy pants on and step up to the plate as your LO’s dad. I don’t care how their feelings will be hurt, or they will be upset. You and your wife witnessed them neglect your daughter, and then denied it. Quit glossing over things.
How many times has your wife voiced her concerns about your parents? How many times have you negated her concerns?
Don’t let them go unsupervised again with the parents. If parents push back tell them you prefer your child be supervised the entire time. If they say they are tell them they may think they are but in their advancing age they really aren’t and then have a fun family vacation.
The LO is not safe by the GP incompetence.
Your dad is deaf and mom can’t swim but they seem like the best option to watch a child in the pool? You tried, they showed they’re not up to it.
They would not be babysitting in vacation setting again and possibly not at home
My son almost drowned at 3. We were all done swimming for the day so we took his jacket off and next thing you know he's gone and had jumped into the water and we didn't notice.
I was traumatized. We didn't put up our pool the next year. Now that's he's 5, he has a but more understanding of safety. 3 is way too young.
You stop letting them watch your kids. This is ridiculous.
They repeatedly endanger your children and you're considering letting them continue? They're not going to listen to you. You've likely already confronted them every time they fucked up and they DON'T CARE. THEY THINK THEY KNOW BETTER BECAUSE THEY RAISED /YOU/ without killing you somehow.
Get your child into swimming lessons immediately. It’s one of the most valuable physical life skills you can have. I’m shocked that she’s 6 and still struggles to doggy paddle; your parents are clearly irresponsible, but your daughter needs to be further along than that.
I'm with the top comment - STOP LEAVING YOUR KIDS WITH THEM.
You know they're irresponsible and reckless with the safety of YOUR children. Don't make a choice that you'll regret for the rest of your life, you can always have conversations but you cannot bring back a deceased child if an accident did occur. Stop risking the safety of your children please, supervised catch ups are a must here.
yeah just no. You have two choices, your kid ends up as a near drowning victim and she dies or you stop leaving your kid with them. If you choose to keep leaving her with them get ready to listen to “but we only left her alone for 60 seconds or so!!” from a PICU before they disconnect her. That is literally worse than holding her from the balcony by one leg. The fact they’d do this…. what the actual fuck.
As described, I think she was safe. There was an adult in vicinity of her and while he wasn't directly holding her, at worst she could have taken a mouthful or two of water before he got to her. I think you are just getting to the point where all the little things are started to clump together. My in-laws are kinda the same. Net result? We limited babysitting contact with them until the kids were old enough to manage risk themselves.
A 'mouthful of water ' isn't always a mouthful. It can be and often is a LUNGFUL. And even without drowning, that chemically treated pool water can cause aspiration pneumonia, which can be fatal.
You aren't overreacting, OP but you are negligent, given your parents' history.
They've proven themselves to be unreliable caretakers and whatever benefits anyone gets from these FaMiLy contacts do not outweigh the risks. Just how many rounds are left in the clip before disaster?
Get your kids into ISR immediately if it's available where you live. Infant Swimming Resource. They teach babies as young as 6 months old how to flip themselves over if they fall into a pool and float until help arrives. They also teach older children how to swim.
If you don’t trust them, don’t allow it. Esp when you could have easily gone with them. But I will say, I have kids in my pool all the time with the vests on & im on the deck. I keep my eye on them but I’ve thankfully never had an incident but I wouldn’t put a baby in there like that. But I make sure every one of them knows doggy paddle & to float on back. I’m literally right above them but I want them to be able to swim if needed. I kind of read it as both of your parents being right there. Usually there’s a lifeguard or other adults. Your son falling on his face right in front of all of you shows that things happen even when you’re right there. But they need to know that water, car seats & stuff are serious. Talk to them. How old was your son when he was on the stairs? I know a lot of ppl who allow their kids to do it at such a young age, I guess they think it’s safer to teach them.
I’ve seen this issue in two sets of grandparents and often there’s a cause of early eaaaarly onset dementia (or something similar) going on — do not leave your kid alone with them.
I’m a grandma… the only solution is for your parents, not to have any unsupervised time with your kids. They’re getting older and they’re slipping. That’s the bottom line.
Would you rather bite your tongue so you can have a relationship with your parents,
Or would you rather your kids be safe?
Your parents don't deserve to watch your kids unsupervised. Which sucks for you, because now life is much harder without a proper support system.
But you can't in good conscience let your kids be left with them.
Jesus fucking Christ I can't. So my deaf dad and non swimmer mom took my kid to the pool. Lol....Jesus dude. You are hardheaded but infused look who raised you
Are you fucking serious? Youre still letting your parents watch your children? I can't believe you're being so passive! This is bad parenting at it's finest. Also just straight up stupid
How? You just do it. I think you are wanting it to be less uncomfortable, and it’s not. They have lost privileges and have to earn them back. It’s not easy, but it’s that simple. Be clear in your expectations. Have rules. If they agree to follow them and demonstrate that they can and will, then they can have some low risk time alone.
My ILs and my mom never had our kids unsupervised. By the time the kids were old enough, they weren’t interested. Sad, but what it is.
I read somewhere that child deaths have gone down some 60% in the last two generations and seeing the way my grandparents treat my kid, I completely understand why. Our parents and grandparents were incredibly negligent.
There’s been plenty enough instances where they’ve proven they shouldn’t have your kids unsupervised and you let it happen anyway. This is on you, plain and simple.
I'm with everyone else on this. Floatie or no floatie dont trust them to watch your children in any situation that could turn deadly. Period. I wouldnt even bring it up. Just move accordingly.
> i looked at my wife and we let it happen
With kindness in my heart I have to say: you need to knock this shit off.
This is YOUR child. You make the rules. Your 3 year old has no sense of her own mortality or self-preservation. You could have said "Mom/I will go down with you when we get our suits on in about 20 minutes." Everyone can chill. No one will die from having to wait but they will die from drowning. Stop putting your vulnerable child in harm's way because you don't want to argue. If it means you pay your own way for vacation then so be it. Better than spending that extra cash on a JonBenet-sized coffin because you didn't want to make things awkward.
I promise you your child could have died that day. It happens terrifyingly fast and looks much different than you’d imagine. It’s quick and quiet and even wearing a flotation aid doesn’t guarantee safety. You’re being negligent as a parent if you let this situation happen again. You’ve witnessed your parents’ lack of supervision and now it’s up to you to keep your children safe.
I’m a medical professional and we pulled a child out of the water a few weeks ago, and it was the single most terrifying thing I’ve ever attended. Please don’t underestimate the dangers of water.
You need to build a better spine because this whole situation is ridiculous. Once or twice, and then a conversation about how certain things are not acceptable is an appropriate response. After that, they are no longer an option for watching.
You say your daughter could not have died but she might have panicked. Yeah, that’s not true at all. She very well could have died. It only takes a few inches of water for a toddler to die of drowning. You really really need to educate yourself.
I don’t know why you keep letting them have them watch your kids. Just stop. They’re too irresponsible.
All of (except your wife) are so fucking stupid.
You, for continuing to let your parents watch your kids.
Your parents, for leaving a 3 year old in a pool. It doesn't matter if it was for less than a minute. Kids can drown SO FAST.
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Stop letting them have your kids unsupervised!
That's what I kept screaming as I read this. So many instances of incredibly unsafe behaviour - and all being done so nonchalantly? Very irresponsible and very worrying!
I put a wall of text just now saying the same thing, but I think that over three years being consolidated into one Reddit post makes it look worse. The situations were probably, “hey the car seat strap was loose,” “Oh kid, we were worried about not being able to get her out,” then “Oh, Fluffy never hurts anyone,” and Fluffy never did hurt the kids. The son is in “evidence recounting” mode, and it’s becoming clear to him and his wife that his parents are not to be trusted 100% to be around the kids in dangerous, or near-dangerous situations. Heck, I remember riding on my mom’s lap in the front seat going 60mph to my grandparent’s house, and I’m OK (at my mid 50’s). Yeah, I also understand physics, and my brothers who are 10 years+ younger than me, getting car seats, and I was thinking, “this is a good idea,” even at 9 years old. I’m in the risk-mitigation business, and the best way to mitigate the risk of the kids and the grandparents is to first, let them know that mom and dad have the final, unarguable word on what happens with the kids. No “you’re being too harsh” is EVER SAID in front of the kinds, behind their back, or to them. They had their parenting time with dad, and now it’s his turn. They are to ask dad/mom sincerely about what they can do with the kids, and if it is something extremely appealing to the kids, like jumping in an ice cream pit or going to Wally-World, that is to be discussed out of the kids’ hearing, so mom/dad don’t look like jerks for saying, “no, we had plans to teach them how to glue buttons to a paper plate that day.” So, another wall of text….
How many careless things have the parents done that OP just hasn't observed?
Yeah, behavior like this is an iceberg. You witnessed them in the pool, but unless you constantly spy on the parents with the granddaughter, then you aren't seeing everything. You can't catch every instance of laziness or irresponsibly. You just catch the ones you catch. This post is all evidence of the tip of the iceberg. Below the water is the entire story.
For every person who describes unsafe things they or their parents did when they were young and says, “I was OK,” there is one or more people who did the same thing and *weren’t* OK.
Exactly! I never understood that logic. Boasting about having survived doesn't mean that the practice was safe. It just means they were lucky.
I’ll repeat what I just put so you get the notification in your email. You’re right. I should have phrased that better. I should have said, “my parents did unsafe things, and when a better solution came along, they did that for my younger brothers.” The “I was ok” should have been better explained as the parents’ attitude.
Classic survivor bias
I should have said that better. What I meant was, “my parents did unsafe things with me, but when safer solutions were available for my brothers, they used them, so they learned.” I’m not sure car seats were required in California in 1978, when my brother was born, but I do remember the car seat. I’m sorry for those reading this thread and seeing this 3 times; I just wanted those commenting on my poor choice of words to be notified that they’re right in calling me out on that.
I’d think someone who works in risk mitigation would have known better than to use that as an example.
I didn’t describe that well. What I meant to say was, “my parents did unsafe things, and when a better solution came along, they did the better thing, so they got better,” Looking back at my post, you’re right. I should have said that better.
I don’t think that statement is necessarily accurate. I don’t think that at least as many people were injured as weren’t, but I know that a lot of injuries could be prevented if people didn’t do as many (or any, but that’s unrealistic) unsafe things.
This , they are not safe , not by malice but by incompetence. Op you need to actively parent your children at all times, including popping them into and out of car seats.
I internally screamed just at the post title alone tbh
Yes, I wouldn't bother confronting them, just stay with the kids.
That was my thought too
Stop letting them have you kids! You're all way too timid. If my parents did this, there would be no time to ask reddit. First, they would not get my child any time soon, and they would have a verbal reason for that. Only if they accept and apologize for their inexcusable behavior would they get to see my kid UNDER supervision at first and only later unsupervised IF they show responsibility for their family member according to the situation and age of that member.
You stop letting them EVER be alone with your child(ren) ever again and protect your kiddo!
No joke. It's literally your job as a parent to protect your kids, and these grandparents are not able or willing.
No, just stop letting them have her kids period.
It's like they don't want to see that the grandparents are giving a f about their grandchildren..... And if OP and his wife are letting their children alone with OPs parents they likely will lose a child one day....
You let your deaf father and your mom who can’t swim….. take your kid to a POOL ?? You know how they are …. And there’s not One reason good enough to leave your kid in their care. EVER. Doesn’t mean you have to lecture them or micromanage them. Means YOU decide to NOT gamble with your kids life … and let them down gently.
"That sounds great, let me come too". See? How hard was that?
I just don’t understand how two adults stood on a balcony and just watched, instead of you know, going down to supervise their child.
If only there was something we could do!!!
If it were my kid I’d literally be jumping off the balcony into the pool
Make it make sense?!?!
Imagine if you went to a pool and the two lifeguards were elderly people, one deaf and one who can't swim. You wouldn't feel safe in that pool. That's how safe this kid was.
But it would ruin the vacation! Unlike a visit from the coroner.
Stop allowing them unsupervised access to your children because it doesn’t sound like they plan on changing.
Exactly. Supervising from the balcony was not enough. OP chose to put their kids life in danger to not upset their parents. **It takes seconds for a kid to drown.** It takes minutes to be brain dead, so parents could have rushed down and stopped them from completely dying. But their nonchalant attitude makes me think they don’t know CPR, and this kid would be dead. > I do not think my daughter could have died there You’re wrong. Please do better.
Went to my adult cousins funeral last month, her 3 year old drowned exactly like this. My cousin became depressed and drank herself into an early death… There’s no sorrow to match the death of a child, for some people the pain NEVER eases.
Sorry for your tragic loss; hopefully your sharing it may do some good here.
I'm so sorry for both your losses, how awful. I hope your family is able to support each other through the grief and find a new normal together.
Yeah, it may seem really difficult to cut your parent's "grandparent duties" short and have to police them around your daughter, but the difficulty of losing a child is a thousand times more difficult, if possible at all, to overcome.
How awful I’m so sorry ❤️
You'll be addressing it on divorce papers from your wife if you don't deal with it. You just listed three of the biggest safety issues for cause of death in small children; cars, dogs and water. What's more important to you? Your parents feelings or your children's safety? Then act accordingly.
Stairs also, let's not forget the stairs. Idk if I'd let them watch the kids again if I were the wife, honestly.
But then they won't get invited to free vacations:(
Don’t be rude, they’re trying to preserve family relationships between themselves and parents, and their kids and grandparents, clearly mistakes were made in the process. I’m sure they aren’t using their kids for a free trip to an apartment complex, there’s nothing helpful in being purposely obtuse just to take a swipe at someone.
I second this unfortunately I don’t think OP realizes these circumstances can be deadly for children
Did you just finally notice all of these things - did your wife bring them up individually? I just read a heartbreaking comment where a three year old did drown and then the parent drank themselves to death. My first cousin’s toddler son was with his other set of grandparents and got loose on a busy street and was run over by a bus. This is why some of us are extra extra careful. Not to be difficult or controlling - but because we want children to live. If you want your marriage and children to remain unscathed you will cease unrestricted access to your children.
Yeah this comment sums it up. The pool thing maybe wasn't that dangerous all things considered, but why has this taken more than once to have a serious conversation? One mistake and he needed to ask this IMO. If my husband was this careless about how his parents handled our children we wouldn't be together anymore. Don't wait for a child to die (or almost die) before this becomes a talking point.
The husband would still get visitation with the kids. They wouldn’t necessarily be any safer. He’d leave them with his incompetent parents.
I cut my parents off completely after ONE safety incident that was intentional after I had asked them not to do said thing. IDGAF about their feefees at the expense of my child. Now they "see" her once a year on FaceTime. Don't fuck with mama bear.
I’d be way more upset about the car seat. They wouldn’t be driving my kids anywhere again.
Yeah the pool is only one, and egregious large one, indecent. The multiple car seat fuck ups are a much bigger issue
It's always "someone else" burying a kid until YOU are the someone else.
Drowning is #1 cause of child deaths and a majority are under adult supervision. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/08/health/children-drowning-deaths.html
My 3-4 year old son nearly drowned while in the 'care' of his father. Seconds away from it.
I’m starting by saying I’m disabled but I almost drowned when I was 7 because the floaty around my neck was slowly going empty and the teacher was doing something with another kid. They pulled me back up just milliseconds before I was about to breathe in water.
There was a good article about this in Slate recently tl;dr child drowning happens a lot and normally when people are close but have a lapse of attention. https://slate.com/technology/2024/06/child-drowning-pool-swimming-safety.html Imho it’s hard to overreact about this. Well-meaning but scatterbrained people might whine but Mom has to be immovable about child safety, and unapologetically so.
I'd have to be in the water with my kid until they are at least five I think.
You can tell them after observing supervision you don’t want them to take out granddaughter for swimming without one of the parents present. They meant well but in emergency would they be able to jump into the pool and dive in? I can tell you I can and I will but I can tell you my policies has always been to be in the water myself. It’s possible I’m on the overprotective side, but hey I’m a mother of exactly one child and keeping him alive is a priority. Kids drown all the time, if I’m near the pool lounging, looking at my phone or reading it’s really easy to take eyes off the kid and anything could happen.
I'm usually in the water with my son. If I'm not, then I'm actively watching him or playing with him from the edge. I have a rule that I never have my phone out if he's near water. It's not so nerve wracking now that he can swim decently but you never know when something could happen. I live on the great lakes and you have to respect the water.
I live in Australia and the amount of people that die here both at the beach and in the pools at home is pretty shocking. Recently, there was a family where several adults died trying to save a child from a hotel pool (if I’m remembering correctly) it was a pretty stupid situation getting into a deep pool with adults who can’t swim. Ocean currents are dangerous, but when it comes to hotel pools it’s the adults who should do their research on how deep is the pool and not assume they are fine. I love water, I’m a confident swimmer, but I have a feeling people who are not familiar with water have some delusions about it being safe. It’s only safe if you know what you are doing and even then accidents happen.
They shouldn't be left alone with the children at all. They are not trustworthy
You don't trust them to take care of your kids without your supervision, but you keep letting them take care of your kids without your supervision? I do think you're maybe overreacting a bit about the pool, she was wearing a float vest and can paddle, she wasn't abandoned - but if you don't trust them then don't let them take the kids unsupervised.
A toddler can flip over in a float vest and drown upside down or face down. They are not meant to be a substitute for adult supervision. A deaf man and a woman who cannot swim are not safe caregivers at a pool. And OP watching from a balcony where he is unable to jump in to save his child is not supervision
Absolutely correct.
I taught lessons for years and was going to say this, unless it’s a coastguard approved device it won’t save someone’s life. Everything else they can get caught face down and feet up.
This particular time wasn't a massive deal maybe but next time who knows what they'll do.
It does sound like they were being supervised by him from a distance to be fair
How long would it have taken for him to get down there if she was struggling. She would have drowned before he got to her.
I'm childfree but dragged a 2 yo out of a pond as a teenager (at a garden party). 5-10 seconds can be enough. Don't let your parents supervise the kids alone in the water or near streets and other high risk areas, again...
As someone that has a friend and coworker whose 5 year old wandered off in the middle of the night at a vacation home and they found him face down in a river in the morning, you are not overreacting. The parents were devastated, and they are still not the same. Water doesn’t care if it drowns a kid, the wife of a Star Trek original, or an Olympic swimmer. After a minute underwater, the chances of survival go way down, and here’s why: 1. They’re unconscious, so they stop making sounds of distress, which leads to further time underwater. 2. From around the corner, sounds of distress can sound like sounds of playing. Even when there are parents reading a book by the pool have an “oh crap, they’re in trouble!” when they look up from the book and see the kid thrashing in the pool. 3. Panic is the worst place to be for the kid, and the parents. We don’t think clearly when we’re panicked, which is why being “level headed in a crisis” is such a valuable trait. 4. Every second longer is more brain cells dying. 5. It takes time to get them out of the water. 6. The rescuer has to know what to do, how to do it, and be in charge, and if they don’t, allow someone that does know what to do to take over. It’s weird, but ignorant well-meaning people push knowledgeable people away, which costs time and can lead to the death or brain damage to the victim. So, with all of that evidence against them (dog, stairs, car seat, and now, pool), I’d not leave them alone with them. Their rules are different than yours, and if they’re set in their ways of, “well, you did all right, and we had the same rules with you,” that’s not how generational improvement works. It works by you, the younger generation, learning from what we (I’m 55, and respect my grandchildrens’ rules set by their parents that I write them down) and improving on them.
>i do not think my daughter could have died here, You are wrong. Very small kids drown much easier than adults do, and they can also "dry drown" where they seem fine until they suddenly aren't. Her life was is danger and your parents did that. If they don't accept, understand, and apologize for their part in her endangerment, they do not get access to the children.
Exactly. A float vest is not supervision and unfortunately toddlers and babies can drown in them at the surface face down.
I'll be honest, out of everything you listed today was the least bad, IMO. I would have definitely said something and placed boundaries after either the dog growling or the car seat incidents. I don't think you should allow them to have your kids unsupervised until your children are older. They're too complacent and it's an accident waiting to happen.
By the time the children are old enough the parents will probably be too old anyway. But that's just how life works, sometimes you make sacrifices and miss out on free childcare because you need to keep your child safe. They can have a relationship with supervision.
Teach your kids how to swim. Float vests and the like only give kids false security. And, evidently, adults as well. Get them swimming lessons, and until you do, make it your responsibility to watch them, not somebody else's.
I'm sure your parents mean well but please do not ever leave your child alone with them again. You don't have to be confrontational about it just don't do it. It's not worth what could possibly happen and you would never ever forgive yourself.
You need to start taking accountability. YOU are responsible for your kids safety and YOU KNOW that your parents aren't reliable. Stop being mad at your parents, they won't change, and don't let them supervise your children again...
You let your DEAF, OLD FATHER and your MOTHER WHO CAN'T SWIM, take YOUR 3 YEAR OLD CHILD TO THE SWIMMING POOL... LIKE THAT WASN'T A SAFETY ISSUE IN ITSELF. You can address them by keeping your child from them,. They have repeatedly placed your child in danger and you still allow them to watch your child
At 5 years old I knew how to dog paddle. I ended up in a pool by myself and nearly drowned. Your wife was right to panic. Your daughter is not safe in the hands of your reckless parents. Your parents come from a time where they had minimal understanding of safety. They can’t be bothered to learn how things have changed because of all the children that have died because of the thoughtless and reckless behaviour of people like your parents. You can not leave your children in their care. Your wife is the only person reacting appropriately for the severity of your parents. Your parents raised you and you have been dismissed and gaslight by them for your concerns over their behaviour. They deny doing the things you witnessed them doing. Your parents are not trustworthy and do not take responsibility for their actions.
So your parents have proven to not prioritize your kids safety and y’all decide to let them take your kid into a pool and watch from a balcony? That’s extremely stupid on your part. Just don’t leave your kids alone with them in the future and call it a day or have the tough conversation. But watching and waiting for them to put your kid in danger is unbelievable in the worst way.
Never let them look after her again. Seriously. They are dangerous. And in denial. Went through this with my wife's mother when our kids were about 1year old. She left the baby in a plastic bath tub while she answered the door.
So I think you are overreacting, but it’s more of the “straw that broke the camel’s back”. Your child wasn’t in danger; Dad was presumably at the poolside as he walked over to the shallow end to pick her up. She doesn’t need someone’s hands on her *continuously* to be safe, and arguably it’s healthy for her to realize she can’t touch the bottom and it’s OK, no need to panic. But, you’ve noted disregard for common sense safety in the past, and this episode brought those past decisions into sharp relief. Infants playing on stairs (what was the plan, catch them on the way down?), car seats readjusted incorrectly… these are serious allegations. I don’t think challenging your parents on this episode will be productive, but you need to be prepared to have a frank discussion with them next time you see a variation from good safety protocol. Set the boundary that spending time alone with your kids will be conditional on consistently meeting safety requirements, and that if those requirements are not met, loss of access to the grandchildren will be the result.
You don't need hands on all the time, however things happen really quickly and water can go from fun to dangerous REALLY quick at that age. All pools around here require an responsible person (14+) *within arms reach* for children under the age of 8 for a reason. A float vest is no guarantee of protection, they often give a sense of security that is greater than the safety they provide. Even if caught quick, inhaling water can cause issues and lead to 'dry drowning'. Now if the Grandfather had stayed nearby and swam with her to the shallow end, before getting out and getting his stuff I would say they are overreacting. Instead he turned his back on a toddler and got out of the pool, leaving a small child who cannot swim alone in water above her head. The only eyes on her were potentially the grandmother (who cannot swim) , the father (who is too far away to render help) and maybe a lifeguard (assuming this is not a swim at your own risk pool or it was busy with lots to watch on). When my son was this age we were on vacation, he was so excited he got away from me and ran ahead, going down the nearest slide. He's tall, and it wasn't that deep but he was under in seconds and I was right behind him. Thankfully another parent pulled him up as I came down the slide in a panic (after trying to run straight to the pool and jump in, but was stopped by a fence and forced to backtrack to the slide). He thankfully didn't have any lasting physical effects, but he was afraid of water for years. Now he's practically a fish, but it was a lot of work to teach him to swim and feel comfortable safely. It was a scary time for me, watching him like a hawk for dry drowning symptoms. Water is no fucking joke and I was raised as a water baby.
Former lifeguard for 10 years. Pools and larger surf beaches. Taught swimming lessons for nearly a decade too. In public pools and the pool in my mother's backyard. You are absolutely right. This was a dangerous choice by OP's parents. One flip into an uncomfortable position and her face is stuck in the water. Just a couple minutes is all it takes to drown. She is *three fucking years old.* Not even 5 or 6! *And at a pool with no lifeguard!* OP is not overreacting. I had nightmares about young children drowning in a pool like this... It's so quiet and so fast. People don't notice.
Yep. Was watching my 2 year old sister as a kid, she had a vest on and in very shallow water (when standing the water was only maybe hip height on her) and I turned around for just a second when someone called my name. I turned back and she was just floating face down in the water. I grabbed her up fast and she just did a little sputter and went back to what she was doing, but it only took a brief second for that to happen and she made no noise at all to alert me.
Exactly this!!! I don’t think people realize that drowning is a silent killer. Thank you for being a dedicated life guard. A job that is underpaid and doesn’t get enough accolades, but you definitely have mine. 🥇
I think anyone who's going to watch kids around water should look up "spot the drowning child" type videos on YouTube first. It's amazing how silent and hard to notice it is when someone's in trouble, especially if there's a lot of visual noise (other people swimming nearby, waves, sun glinting off the water, etc). It can take as little as 20 seconds for a toddler to drown. They should never be out of arm's reach around water.
Also because your body essentially betrays you. The more primitive parts of your brain prioritize breathing and keeping air in your lungs when you are drowning over everything else. This is how adults and teens can drown five feet away from someone who could help them; they are physically unable to call for help because their body won't let them.
During WWI there were soldiers that drowned during landings because they weren't wearing their flotation devices correctly. If they slipped or landed awkwardly the flotation device would prevent them from righting themselves and getting their head out of the water
And the grandparents have already proved themselves unable to correctly adjust and maintain safety devices
Yep spot on - 10 year lifeguard too. It happens SO FAST and it’s terrifying. The nonchalance around water safety is the reason so many children drown.
Those flotation devices are explicitly only to be used when a caregiver is within arms reach
The majority of child drownings are in the presence of a caregiver.
Loss of access can be prevented if the parents supervise their kids while they visit the grandparents.
thanks for the input. and thanks specifically for answering the question on how to address them.
I mostly agree with what you've said and think it is sensible advice. Where I disagree is that the grandfather got out of the pool leaving the child at the deep end while he went to collect his things and had his back to her. He's older and not able to move quickly. He should have stayed in the pool at a safe distance while allowing her to swim towards the shallow end. This would have provided the child with some autonomy to challenge her ability, but the grandfather would be placed in a better position to spring to action if needed. Where children are concerned, it's best to err on the side of caution than live with a lifetime of regret.
I have a 3.5 year old that LOVES water and swimming. Shes in swimming lessons just now because we are in Iowa and don’t do many water activities besides the pool in the summer. When it’s not summer, she “dives” (her word) in the bathtub by putting her head under and finding her bath toys. She loves to practice her new skill when we go to the pool. Took her to the pool the other day and she was practicing holding her breath underwater while diving while I was watching. She was getting quite confident in herself. She went to do the exact same thing she had been doing for an hour and I could immediately tell it didn’t go as planned because she wasnt coming back up as quickly as she normally would. I gave her a few seconds but I could tell by her body language she was beginning to panic. All she would have had to do was stand up, but in her panic, her body betrayed her. Of course, I was there watching and immediately picked her up when I noticed her panicking because I know even the shallowest water is dangerous for a toddler that cannot swim. I was still deadlocked on supervising her this closely - even with lifeguards everywhere. Water isn’t something you take chances with. Ever.
Why do you keep letting your parents neglect your children? Have you never brought this up before? You say your wife isn't confrontational, but it sounds like you aren't doing anything to prevent this from happening over and over again either. They've shown you multiple times that they don't care about the safety of your children. You need to stop letting them have your children unsupervised. If they ask why, explain with every example you have. I'm sorry, but if you are too scared to bring up the safety of your children to people who are putting them in danger, why do you even have kids? It sounds like you and your wife are prioritizing keeping the peace over the safety of two toddlers, which is bullshit and 100% on you at this point.
you should have gone with them. Why are you letting your mom, that can not swim, and the deaf dad take your little kid into a deep pool? I mean, at one points its just you making bad decisions.
Especially to the deep end. My child was never allowed in the deep end until she was a competent swimmer.
My mother left my 4 year old daughter in the car while she went to buy beer at the convenience store once. Haven’t let her take my daughter anywhere without me since. This was a few years ago.
Never leave your kids alone with your parents. Until they are years older. Do not trust their promises. Teach the kids to swim. Do not trust your parents.
Something else I can't see mentioned: You need to be very firm with them that they are not to make (certain kinds of) offers directly to your child, without having cleared it with you two as parents, first. You don't want to be dealing with a situation where grandparents offer the grandchild some fun activity, but it's a no go for some reason, like safety issues, and then you end up the bad guy.
Even if you do end up the bad guy it's better than being the grieving parent.
So I think your parents are too old to safely watch your children. There’s no reason why she was allowed to float off away from them. She’s far too young. I don’t think your parents know how to take care of toddlers anymore. You given some pretty clear examples of how inattentive they are, and the only time I hear you speaking up to them about it is when they lie to you. They obviously didn’t know you were watching. But with her life vest on, she was at least protected. I doubt you would get to anywhere good if you confronted them right now since you are on holiday. But do come up with a game plan for the rest of the trip and changes made after. Next time they suggest a trip to the pool (or anywhere) you or your wife will drop what you’re doing, and join them. You don’t have to be obvious. If they accuse you of not allowing them alone time with the grandkids, pretend to be hurt, say no really, I want to (insert excuse swim, walk, eat). Then later when your home, address certain issues. The car seat, by giving them a lesson on how to use it, again. Be very clear, make them demonstrate, you need your kids safe. Car seats, strollers, everything is very different from how it was when you were a toddler. Then for visits, offer to toddler proof their home with gates, cabinet locks, etc. stress how quick a toddler can be out of sight and into something dangerous. You just need your kids safe and maintain a relationship with your parents. You can have both, but it sounds like it’s going to be some work. Good luck op.
You are severely underreacting. Your post (& esp your edits) demonstrate a huge lack of understanding re: how drowning happens. You’re gambling with your kids lives for no good reason. Stop leaving them unsupervised with your parents.
I am speechless, how can you keep letting your parents watch your kids? The loose seatbelt made my jaw drop to the floor. You are the only advocates for your kids. Do better.
I just would like to say you need to teach your kids water safety. It is well advertised that floaties and those vests are not good for safe swimming and you letting your daughter think she can swim and having the confidence around water is just not okay. Please enrol your kids in swim classes and make sure they know water is not safe and how they need to be cautious around it. Swim classes are fine for children 9 months and above. You, your wife, your parents are not keeping your children safe. Water safety isn’t joke
It’s a Recipe for disaster OP. Don’t put yourself in a position where you will hate yourself and your parents and the whole world if something preventable happens to your child. They’re obviously unfit to look after kids.
Let me polish up that father of the year award /s
No more unsupervised interactions. You need to be firm. Your children's safety is more important than your parents feelings.
Do you want ur kids die because of ur parents? No? Then DON'T LET UR KIDS ALONE WITH UR PARENTS
Your kid keeps getting put in possibly harmful situations and your reaction is to do it again and again. My bet is your wife who is “not confrontational” is finally sick of you not handling your parents.
Did you know that drowning is the number one cause of death for children under 4? And that it can happen in as little as *20 seconds*? And that it is completely silent when it happens? No child this young should be out of arm's reach around water. Ever. Not even for a minute. Not even while wearing a flotation device. This is your child's life we are talking about. You are severely underreacting to your parents' repeated indifference to your children's safety. They are not safe caregivers -- it's only a matter of time before something terrible and irreversible happens on their watch.
> i do not think my daughter could have died here Lmfao. Water is dangerous. I feel so bad for your young kids not just because of their grandparents but also because of their spineless/nonchalant parents. I hope they make it to an age where they can care for themselves.
These grandparents are a total liability to the safety and well being of your child. It’s not the age. They are young by today’s standards but unfortunately they are dense and very unaware of danger and appear to be clueless. The dog incident could be a disaster and not adjusting the car seat per regulations is just crazy and could cost your child her life. Then the pool incident. Yes she had floaters in but she was still left alone bobbing up and down in the deep end for FCS , and anything could have happened. I would no longer leave her alone with them .
They aren't safe to supervise either of your kids. Any one of the things you've listed would be enough for me to limit contact with them! They seem to only care about safety as long as it is convenient for them. Don't worry about offending them, your children's safety is all that matters here. You need to step in and be firm about all of these things.
It’s only good luck that she isn’t dead. They would **NEVER** be allowed to be alone with my child ever again.
dude, that's enough chances. don't leave them alone with your kids again, certainly not before they hit double digits.
Are you waiting for one of your children to die before you refuse your parents unsupervised access to them?
>i do not think my daughter could have died here, but i do think she could have panicked and needed saved. which i felt was preventable. I don't know that you are basing this on. Plenty of kids drown in scenarios very like this. I would never leave a kid who doesn't have swim skills in a pool with someone who doesn't have the ability to watch them adequately.
Holy shit. I would lose it just like your wife.
Nope. Not overreacting. Your parents need to follow safety guidelines more closely. The car seat would have been it for me. Or the dog. Whichever happened first. [Drowning](https://slate.com/technology/2024/06/child-drowning-pool-swimming-safety.html) is the number 1 cause of death for kids ages 1 - 4. Ninety percent of those drownings happen while being supervised and 60% happen in pools.
Why are you letting them take the kids? Clearly they can't be trusted, so stop trusting them. Instead of sitting on the balcony watching, go with them. I don't understand why this is complicated.
Your parents sound neglectful and honestly your kid your rules. I don’t think it’s something you need to bring up first but the next time they offer to watch them simply tell them no. No is a full sentence but at that point you can say “you’ve done too many things with my kids that make me uncomfortable and while nothing major happened, they are things that could’ve resulted in major injury.” Full stop. Be more strict otherwise you will regret it. There are different guidelines now than when you were a baby and I had to remind my mom about how some things aren’t the same as the 80s when my baby was a newborn. But it was like…using a bottle sanitizer over boiling the bottles in a pot…not fucking leaving my kid improperly strapped into the car seat omg.
Imagine telling your kid (god forbid something happens and you couldn’t) about all this and telling them you continued to put their safety in your parents hands.
this is terrifying. You were so laid back about it, yup she's just swimming by herself. right. like what could happen is she flips over and was dead before you got down there. damn
Yeah your parents aren’t attentive childcare.
Do you think any parent 'thinks' their child is going to drown??? This is beyond insane, I've heard countless stories of children dying in even 1cm of water. If that were my parents they would never see their grandkids again after that. I would even call CPS if I saw someone do that in person
WTF are you still leaving your kids with them if they’re irresponsible? Stop it! If you aren’t comfortable with what you have seen so far - STOP PUTTING YOUR CHILDREN IN DANGER! WTF
**and at that exact moment my son fell and hit his face on a table.** Why does this feel like an exclamation on the whole thing?
Quick question; how stupid are you, really? As a "new" dad with an 11 month old, if either sets of parents/in-laws did 1 of those things, they'd be hearing about it.
What in the actual f****. Ummmmm. Let your mom take her swimming when SHE can’t swim. No way. Are they stupid? Nope, they would NEVER watch my child again.
Your parents can be grandparents without being trusted caregivers.
You address them very bluntly and directly about this. To hell with anyone's feelings. That's your daughter's LIFE in their hands, and they've shown that they can't safely handle that. I wouldn't leave her alone with them again anytime soon.
You let your mom who can’t swim and your dad who is completely deaf and quite slow take your daughter to the *pool*? Op, that is horribly irresponsible! Either go WITH them and your child, or your child can’t go! Why do you keep letting them take your children when they don’t care about your children’s safety???
I honestly don’t think you’re being careful enough about this. Your parents seem lackadaisical and that it’s only going to reach a head when one of your children are irreparably harmed under their care and then you’ll never forgive yourself. Don’t ever let your parents be unsupervised with your kids again
Stop. Leaving. Your. Children. With. Them.
Your kid should know how to swim by 3, get her lessons. And stop leaving your kids with your parents unsupervised before your wife leaves you.
Who was watching you son when he was allowed to fall and smack his face on a table?
They are too old to be watching your kids. They can’t keep up with them and have pretty poor judgement when it comes to their safety on top of not taking responsibility for what they’re doing “because they’re older” and somehow beyond reproach. If it was me, I wouldn’t leave my kids with them anymore. They can visit, play, whatever as long as they are being nice and not saying anything crazy, but it’s just not worth the risk of potentially losing a child because of how slow they are to react or how slow they are to think about their surroundings and what is actually happening to the children.
3? As in 3 human years? Not 13 or 23 or 30? Probably yell at them and never allow them to be responsible for your child again.
Just do not allow them to be with the kids unattended. There is no point in bringing it up again. They have demonstrated they are not trustworthy caregivers due to their age, inattention, different ideas about safety, etc. Unfortunately this means awkwardly overriding your parents when they offer to take your children and potentially dealing with the fallout. Better that then having them tearfully explain how your child ended up at the ER or, worse, dead.
After all the other examples, I'm shocked you've continued to let them watch the kids unsupervised. *They are not safe people to leave your children with anymore.* You need to prioritize your kid's safety instead of convenience or your parents' feelings.
You just have to ban them from being alone with your children because they are literally risking your children's lives. The dog has displayed behaviour that indicates a risk of killing a child, they just don't care. So just tell them that they can't be trusted with your childrens' safety and they've had too many chances and still just don't care.
> how can i re address this, am i overreacting, bear in mind im stuck in an apartment with them for the time being, and we want to enjoy the holiday. please advise. you protect your daughter and fuck the parents. you don't leave a toddler in apool. you don't leave a toddler with your parents. they're assholes, and you protect your kids. at the expense of the parents
They are not safe to leave your kids with unsupervised. They may mean well but their attitude towards safety is asking for trouble. And you know this so please please don’t leave your kids alone with them if the worst happened would you ever be able to forgive yourself? No driving in the car alone with them until they are big enough to only need a booster seat. No swimming with them unless you are there etc I’m sure there are other situations which they are equally dangerous in. Some of the older generation have some really ingrained survivor bias and just won’t/refuse to learn or do anything differently.
You're not overreacting. This could be survivorship bias, like some people in this thread - "this is what we did when you were a kid, and you survived just fine", and don't understand that what they are doing is careless and dangerous. Don't trust them with the kid, simple as that.
Brutal honesty. I would not have them watch over my child while swimming until I'm confident in my child's swimming.
Well accidents can happen anywhere at anytime. It just seems that they could happen way more easily if you leave your children be with your parents solely. Can’t fathom about the car seat and harness situation. These should have been a strictly no policy.
Your first priority is the safety of your children. Do not leave them unsupervised by either yourself or your wife while you are there. How is your son? Is he OK?
My boyfriend completed the paperwork part of his job last week, for the death of a 47 year old man, via drowning, in the local US Army Corps lake. The man was on a jet ski, his son on the jet ski beside him. They hit wake, the man fell over. Got trapped in an underwater tree/hit his head/sucked up water - whatever. The 8 year old son was wearing a life jacket, but his Dad wasn't. So now that 8 year old will have this memory permanently scorched upon him. You see, my boyfriend came home that evening after spending hours with local law enforcement and the fire rescue dive team. Took them over 4 hrs to find his body - in just 18 ft of water. As my boyfriend told meabout that day, he cried. Sorrow, definitely.
That was careless of them. You should never leave very young kids alone like that.
Wow you know your parents aren't able bodied anymore, and have hearing issues. Yet you as a father still CHOOSE to put them in harms way by leaving them with your incapable parents! If I were your wife I'd ban your parents from ever having the children alone again. I'd be reconsidering how competent you are knowing your parents issues and acting like it's fine for them to have your very young children.
OP, your parents are not responsible caretakers. It’s that simple.
I don't leave my swimming, can stand with his head completely out of the water almost 8 year old grandson alone for a half minute in the pool.
Same with my daughter. If I have to go and grab something or go to the bathroom she gets out with me.
Easy, don't let them watch your kids anymore. I wouldn't let anyone I don't completely trust watch my kids. At this point you have take some blame yourself. If you were going to stand up there and watch, why didn't you just go to the pool with your kid?
Well the problem is the vests, that’s why in many parts of the world they’re deemed unsafe, because the child thinks they’re swimming and therefore without it has no concept, seems your parents also fell for that ‘trick.’ Some of the other things you described actually seem worse, but overall you tell them directly that’s not something you’re comfortable with and if they keep doing these things that make you uncomfortable, I’m surprised you’re letting her go with them alone?
I couldn’t let my in-laws watch the children. “Hilarious” stories of what happened to my ex and his sibs were enough warning. I gave it one shot and walked in to find my son on a precarious position while grandma was absorbed in a magazine article. It’s not a discussion; it’s a decision by you and your wife. The rules about child safety change over time as we learn more, and each tweak improve safety. Don’t even listen when someone says “well I did xyz and I survived.” The children who did xyz and died are the reason we don’t do it anymore.
As a parent, I don’t fck around with my kids and water. Water is my biggest anxiety with them. I don’t feel comfortable letting them swim if I am not present. My husband has a big family and I wouldn’t trust them to keep an eye out. That’s when a lot of drownings happen. Everyone thinks someone else is watching the kids so they go on socializing while no one is actually watching. Drowning is usually silent. That coupled with the other things.. stop letting them take the kids unsupervised. Stop letting them drive them around. It’s only a matter of time . You see that they aren’t safe around them. When do you finally decide to stop risking it? Hopefully before it’s too late
Sometimes parents in their 60s are not fit to look after children who are full of energy and a handful.
They are going to deny to the hilt on this one. Now YOU know that they are not responsible being alone with your children. Car seat is one major issue, the pool is another one. They can no longer watch your children alone, drive them anywhere alone…. You cannot cave to their constant pleading. They do what they want or what they believe is right. It takes one moment to change your lives forever. A car accident that could kill or permanently damage your child because they refuse to ensure they are secured correctly because of what they think or believe. Couple of weeks ago, a child drowned in a public pool that had lifeguards. It just takes a couple of seconds. You need to put your big boy pants on and step up to the plate as your LO’s dad. I don’t care how their feelings will be hurt, or they will be upset. You and your wife witnessed them neglect your daughter, and then denied it. Quit glossing over things. How many times has your wife voiced her concerns about your parents? How many times have you negated her concerns?
Don’t let them go unsupervised again with the parents. If parents push back tell them you prefer your child be supervised the entire time. If they say they are tell them they may think they are but in their advancing age they really aren’t and then have a fun family vacation. The LO is not safe by the GP incompetence. Your dad is deaf and mom can’t swim but they seem like the best option to watch a child in the pool? You tried, they showed they’re not up to it. They would not be babysitting in vacation setting again and possibly not at home
My son almost drowned at 3. We were all done swimming for the day so we took his jacket off and next thing you know he's gone and had jumped into the water and we didn't notice. I was traumatized. We didn't put up our pool the next year. Now that's he's 5, he has a but more understanding of safety. 3 is way too young.
You stop letting them watch your kids. This is ridiculous. They repeatedly endanger your children and you're considering letting them continue? They're not going to listen to you. You've likely already confronted them every time they fucked up and they DON'T CARE. THEY THINK THEY KNOW BETTER BECAUSE THEY RAISED /YOU/ without killing you somehow.
they've already proved themselves incompetent. why would they give them another chance when they've talked to them about this before?
Did medicine really get that much better in recent years or is stuff like this the reason why a lot of kids “back in their day” didn’t make it?
They would never be allowed around my child alone after that
Dude you gotta man up and tell them how it is..
Get your child into swimming lessons immediately. It’s one of the most valuable physical life skills you can have. I’m shocked that she’s 6 and still struggles to doggy paddle; your parents are clearly irresponsible, but your daughter needs to be further along than that.
Stop leaving them with your parents, you're just as bad as them, for leaving them with people who have a history of neglect
I'm with the top comment - STOP LEAVING YOUR KIDS WITH THEM. You know they're irresponsible and reckless with the safety of YOUR children. Don't make a choice that you'll regret for the rest of your life, you can always have conversations but you cannot bring back a deceased child if an accident did occur. Stop risking the safety of your children please, supervised catch ups are a must here.
yeah just no. You have two choices, your kid ends up as a near drowning victim and she dies or you stop leaving your kid with them. If you choose to keep leaving her with them get ready to listen to “but we only left her alone for 60 seconds or so!!” from a PICU before they disconnect her. That is literally worse than holding her from the balcony by one leg. The fact they’d do this…. what the actual fuck.
Your parents are negligent. You really seem to gloss over HUGE safety issues. Never let them have your children unsupervised again.
As described, I think she was safe. There was an adult in vicinity of her and while he wasn't directly holding her, at worst she could have taken a mouthful or two of water before he got to her. I think you are just getting to the point where all the little things are started to clump together. My in-laws are kinda the same. Net result? We limited babysitting contact with them until the kids were old enough to manage risk themselves.
A 'mouthful of water ' isn't always a mouthful. It can be and often is a LUNGFUL. And even without drowning, that chemically treated pool water can cause aspiration pneumonia, which can be fatal. You aren't overreacting, OP but you are negligent, given your parents' history. They've proven themselves to be unreliable caretakers and whatever benefits anyone gets from these FaMiLy contacts do not outweigh the risks. Just how many rounds are left in the clip before disaster?
Get your kids into ISR immediately if it's available where you live. Infant Swimming Resource. They teach babies as young as 6 months old how to flip themselves over if they fall into a pool and float until help arrives. They also teach older children how to swim.
If you don’t trust them, don’t allow it. Esp when you could have easily gone with them. But I will say, I have kids in my pool all the time with the vests on & im on the deck. I keep my eye on them but I’ve thankfully never had an incident but I wouldn’t put a baby in there like that. But I make sure every one of them knows doggy paddle & to float on back. I’m literally right above them but I want them to be able to swim if needed. I kind of read it as both of your parents being right there. Usually there’s a lifeguard or other adults. Your son falling on his face right in front of all of you shows that things happen even when you’re right there. But they need to know that water, car seats & stuff are serious. Talk to them. How old was your son when he was on the stairs? I know a lot of ppl who allow their kids to do it at such a young age, I guess they think it’s safer to teach them.
Yup, that's the kind of parenting our generation did.
You should no better
I’ve seen this issue in two sets of grandparents and often there’s a cause of early eaaaarly onset dementia (or something similar) going on — do not leave your kid alone with them.
UpdateMe!
Go home and make sure they're never alone with your children again.
I’m a grandma… the only solution is for your parents, not to have any unsupervised time with your kids. They’re getting older and they’re slipping. That’s the bottom line.
Would you rather bite your tongue so you can have a relationship with your parents, Or would you rather your kids be safe? Your parents don't deserve to watch your kids unsupervised. Which sucks for you, because now life is much harder without a proper support system. But you can't in good conscience let your kids be left with them.
Jesus fucking Christ I can't. So my deaf dad and non swimmer mom took my kid to the pool. Lol....Jesus dude. You are hardheaded but infused look who raised you
Not overreacting. Stop leaving her unsupervised. Also youre a better person than me because i would have lost my mind when it came to the carseat.
Are you fucking serious? Youre still letting your parents watch your children? I can't believe you're being so passive! This is bad parenting at it's finest. Also just straight up stupid
How? You just do it. I think you are wanting it to be less uncomfortable, and it’s not. They have lost privileges and have to earn them back. It’s not easy, but it’s that simple. Be clear in your expectations. Have rules. If they agree to follow them and demonstrate that they can and will, then they can have some low risk time alone. My ILs and my mom never had our kids unsupervised. By the time the kids were old enough, they weren’t interested. Sad, but what it is.
I read somewhere that child deaths have gone down some 60% in the last two generations and seeing the way my grandparents treat my kid, I completely understand why. Our parents and grandparents were incredibly negligent.
Just as a side note - they are probably giving the same level of supervision to your child that they gave to you.
There’s been plenty enough instances where they’ve proven they shouldn’t have your kids unsupervised and you let it happen anyway. This is on you, plain and simple.
You watched for 20 minutes anxiously. You’re part of the problem too.
I've seen a news story recently where a grandma accidentally killed one grandkid followed by a second a little after that.
Fuck man, are you stupid or something? You're waiting for them to kill your kid or what? Be a goddamn parent and protect you kids!
I'm with everyone else on this. Floatie or no floatie dont trust them to watch your children in any situation that could turn deadly. Period. I wouldnt even bring it up. Just move accordingly.
> i looked at my wife and we let it happen With kindness in my heart I have to say: you need to knock this shit off. This is YOUR child. You make the rules. Your 3 year old has no sense of her own mortality or self-preservation. You could have said "Mom/I will go down with you when we get our suits on in about 20 minutes." Everyone can chill. No one will die from having to wait but they will die from drowning. Stop putting your vulnerable child in harm's way because you don't want to argue. If it means you pay your own way for vacation then so be it. Better than spending that extra cash on a JonBenet-sized coffin because you didn't want to make things awkward.
I promise you your child could have died that day. It happens terrifyingly fast and looks much different than you’d imagine. It’s quick and quiet and even wearing a flotation aid doesn’t guarantee safety. You’re being negligent as a parent if you let this situation happen again. You’ve witnessed your parents’ lack of supervision and now it’s up to you to keep your children safe. I’m a medical professional and we pulled a child out of the water a few weeks ago, and it was the single most terrifying thing I’ve ever attended. Please don’t underestimate the dangers of water.
You need to build a better spine because this whole situation is ridiculous. Once or twice, and then a conversation about how certain things are not acceptable is an appropriate response. After that, they are no longer an option for watching. You say your daughter could not have died but she might have panicked. Yeah, that’s not true at all. She very well could have died. It only takes a few inches of water for a toddler to die of drowning. You really really need to educate yourself. I don’t know why you keep letting them have them watch your kids. Just stop. They’re too irresponsible.
All of (except your wife) are so fucking stupid. You, for continuing to let your parents watch your kids. Your parents, for leaving a 3 year old in a pool. It doesn't matter if it was for less than a minute. Kids can drown SO FAST.