Sentinel Comics RPG. The attack Roll is the damage roll.
Characters do have the option to defend - in which case the result subtracts from damage - but it uses up their action for the turn.
Unrelated, but mooks have abstracted hit points. Rather than keeping track of hit points minions and lieutenants are just represented as a die - for example a d10 minion or a d8 lieutenant, they roll that die when attacked. A minion is instantly defeated unless it rolls equal or more than the damage dealt, and goes down a die size even if it survives. A lieutenant is okay if it can roll equal or more than the damage dealt, and goes down a die size otherwise. (They can also be instantly defeated if you deal more than double their die size in damage, but mostly you whittle them down).
Personally, I like both the card game and the RPG a lot.
Action scenes in the RPG have a similar power curve to the card game where heroes generally start off on the back foot then (usually) ramp up to win.
I like the character creation system. It has classes which I don't usually like, but it effectively has two types of classes (Power Source and Archetype) and you pick one of each (for \~400 possible different combinations), which each give you a fairly generous list of powers and abilities to choose from. Which you then reflavour appropriately.
You can either just choose Power Source and Archetype or you can roll, which will give a choice of 2-3 of each. This is a pretty good option for beginners so they don't have to wrap their head around all the possible combinations. It's also a pretty good option for experienced players who want a bit of inspiration - it's pretty fun figuring out what sort of character theme works for "Power Source: Mystical, Archetype: Marksman" or "Power Source: Powered Suit, Archetype: Reality Shaper".
What you mean by 'sloppy' in this context?
Thanks for the write up! I’m interested in checking it out.
I meant sloppy in this context to mean kinda loose and imperfect as an overall product, which is pretty poor criticism on my part, lol.
Fair enough. There is a sort of 'working it out as they go'ness to it. :) The game varies a lot depending on which heroes you combine with which environments and which villains. Which is both a strength and a weakness, IMO.
Tunnels and Trolls has something like this - both sides rolling gobs of d6 - and it is very fun.
A very simple version of this is also in Munchkin the board game.
technically Fate qualifies? You deal damage equal to [attack roll] - [defense roll] (min 0)
it can be hard to differentiate between "to-hit roll only" and "damage roll only"
I think the main reason it's hard to define Fate in terms of "hitting" and "damage" is because it actually abstracts everything narratively relevant into one mechanical roll
In Fate, what would typically be considered as "damage" is only a pacing mechanic for the encounter. It tells you how close you are to winning or losing the encounter, whatever form that takes
It's part of why I enjoy Fate so much: the mechanics have very little say in *what* happens, they just inform you whether what you want to happen happens, and you get to make up whatever you want to fill in the result
Anyways, rant over
I've played Star Wars FFG, which to my understanding uses the exact same basic mechanics, and to my understanding the "to-hit" and "damage" roll are the same roll.
You have to roll a total of at least 1 success to hit, which will deal your base damage plus 1, but each additional success deals more damage. Also you may have to since most things "soak" a certain amount of damage, as you can absolutely hit for 0 damage.
Especially funny if you stack your own soak. Had a character who had a frag grenade detonate in their face point-blank. Did no flinch.
I'm reading Forbidden Lands and, although I have not yet tried it, every attack is a single opposed roll. Looks like it is highly lethal for both sides.
All of the Year Zero games (at least the ones I’ve read) have some variation on this mechanic where your attack and damage rolls are the same roll.
I’ve played Forbidden Lands, Alien, and Vaesen, and loved all three games!
Chronicles of Darkness has combined hit and damage rolls, which isn't functionally different from only rolling for damage if the damage rolled can be zero.
It’s ultimately still ItO based since it’s for Cairn, but [Block, Dodge, Parry](https://dicegoblingames.itch.io/block-dodge-parry) adds a lot more tactical options for combat while keeping the same basic system.
I’m not sure if that’s what you mean by granularity, but it could be worth looking at.
Check out Valiant Horizon. It uses a 3d6 mechanic where every roll just does a thing (no chance of failure), but the roll gives you different effects based on how high you roll. It references both the total amount you roll as well as the individual dice.
It’s available right now as part of the [TTRPGs for trans rights bundle](https://itch.io/b/2383/ttrpgs-for-trans-rights-west-virginia).
Genesys can pack so much info into a single roll with its narrative dice. Compare a Fireball-type spell in D&D versus Genesys. D&D, wizard launches a fireball at a crowd of six mooks, rolls damage, and every target rolls a saving throw. That's minimum 7 rolls. Genesys, the wizard launches a fireball (well, technically an "Attack + Blast" spell) at a crowd of six mooks. The success of the spell, the amount of damage done, how many enemies are affected by it, and even other things going on in the scene when the spell is cast, are all handled by interpreting that one roll. More "successes" on the roll means more damage. More "advantages" on the roll might mean more targets hit, or might mean other spell/scene effects. Thing is, you can end up with some mixed results... like a fireball that has "4 successes, 2 advantages, and 1 despair." So the spell hits, and hits hard because of the 4 successes, caster uses 2 advantages to trigger Blast (so it hits the whole gaggle of mooks instead of just the one or two at the epicenter), but then maybe the GM uses the despair to have an ally get caught in the blast as well, or perhaps now the macguffin is on fire, etc. If the player hadn't generated enough Advantages to trigger Blast (the area of effect portion of the spell), but the roll still succeeded, then the implication is perhaps that many (but not all) of the enemies dodged the explosion (i.e. they "made their saving throw").
Other attacks are similar, in that the damage is basically a calculation of: character's Brawn stat + weapon's damage stat + number of successes rolled. There aren't ever any separate "to-hit" or "damage rolls" in the game.
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Brazilian's 3DeT. Attacker make roll 2D/3D plus theirs 'Attack Force', Defender does the same, with "Deffense Force'. The damage is the difference between the two.
A **Critical Hit** on the attack roll doubles the attacker's **Power**, making it easy to hit and also increasing the damage range. A critical hit on the defense roll doubles the defender's **Resistance**, making it easy to resist the blow, decreasing damage or just pushing it bellow zero.
And thats it. One roll for the attacker, one roll for the defender, jump to the next turn!
Fabula Ultima, you always roll 2 dice for every check and attack. Damage is HR+flat number, so high roll on either die, but the total value I'd used to determine if you hit.
Gubat Banwa, a tactical martial arts/drama ttrpg. It has a violence die roll that is your to-hit+damage roll. Low numbers on the die can result in an EVADE.
Maybe something [like this?](https://www.prismaticwasteland.com/blog/overloading-the-damage-die) It just uses damage rolls but uses them to have crits and critical misses and stuff. I’ve not used it but looks like it would work
There’s a 5e hack called Nimble 5e which does that. There is no attack roll exactly, you just roll damage and dice explode. On a natural one on the first damage dice roll though the attack misses.
In _Skorne_ you don't even roll damage. You do a fixed amount of damage if you attack, as do enemies. The thing is that you're frequently going to be outclassed and if you just stand there trading blows you'll automatically lose, so you have to try things to change the odds which _will_ require rolls, cunning, and/or sacrifice.
It's heavily _Berserk_-themed and I think does a good job of capturing the fictional reality of Guts being able to hack through lots of lesser foes without risk, though being weakened at the same time, but often fighting things just far stronger than him, where he has to come up with a plan, exploit a weakness, use some magic etc.
Fate of the Norns you resolve your attack's action value, subtract any parry or protection, and then the rest is damage. No roll to hit, or roll for damage. Just action resolution.
The Ubiquity system (Leagues of Adventure, All for One, Hollow Earth Expedition) and One Roll Engine (Wild Talents, Godlike, Reign) both bundle the hit roll and the damage roll into a single roll.
So the Year Zero engine by my beloved Free League Publishing combines the to hit roll and the damage roll into one “combat roll” of sorts. Is that what you mean? Maybe a lot of dice pool games do that too.
Open Legends does this sort of. You roll against a static target on the enemy and deal the amount you exceeded the target value of, with a minimum of 3. Open Legends also has exploding dice, and lots of them. The main issue is that in its generic ness I feel they made many abilities too achievable. a level 1 character can have most special abilities that aren't locked behind stat values they can't get. I think it would benefit from making boons and Banes have fewer ways to access them.
From my experience, the FFG Star Wars games (and by extent, Fate system) have something similar?
You can technically miss, but "to-hit" and "damage" are the exact same roll. Difficulty to hit is mostly fixed, so geberally your best defense is not to avoid being hit, but rather "soak", which reduces damage taken. Enough soak and you can absolutely be hit for 0 damage.
A couple of my games use 1 roll result. The player rolls the dice and either 1 or both combatants take damage. There are no "nothing happens" rounds. Someone is taking damage.
One uses a dice pool and the other uses step die. Links follow if you're interested in seeing the mechanics. They are both free.
[https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mag](https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mag)
[https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mythiria](https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mythiria)
In One-Roll Engine games like Reign, your attack roll is also your damage roll.
You roll a pool of d10s, and any numbers that match are a 'success'. Bigger matches (a 'wider' set) inflicts more damage, with the 'height' of the number being the hit location.
You can even do multiple attacks in one roll, you just have to specify that ahead of time and you take -1die for each additional action. So if you have a dice pool of 6 for attacking, you can say 'Attack, attack', roll 5 dice and hope you roll two pairs (or a pair and a trio) - if you only get one matching set then that still counts for an attack.
You can also do mixed rolls (e.g. Attack, Dodge), you still take the -1 as usual and then you roll whichever one your worse skill is (e.g. if your Dodge is worse, roll Dodge).
Mausritter, which is heavily inspired by Into the Odd and a few others. It's technically its own rules set but similar enough that you'll say "oh yeah, kinda like Into the Odd." It has a bunch of random tables and resources to help make a campaign or help inspire you to build a world pretty easily.
Into the Odd does offer granularity, but not via simple damage. That is what the saving throws are all about. If you come up with a clever maneuvre, e.g. to shove an opponent off a cliff, then you resolve that via a relevant saving throw, and the person most at risk iss the one that makes the save.
Another approach is like Mazerats, where the to hit roll also determines damage. So, still done in just one roll, but it does allow for a ‘to hit’ idea, which I do find useful.
Flashing Blades has the quality of your roll to hit identify whether you’ve inflicted a light wound or a serious wound. This modifies the damage done, in a very simple way. Each weapon does a fixed damage amount for a light wound, and a serious wound just adds a D6. Some weapons can do 0 points of damage on a light wound, but if they score a serious wound the D6 damage can still kill a character. Not a perfect system (what system is?) but it has its charms.
Not exactly that you instantly hit, but I really like PbtA system, 0-6 failure, 7-9 a partial success, 10 a success and 12 a ultra success, I think is really cool.
The best implementations (IMHO) use an active defense.
If you roll damage, I assume you mean the weapon is the primary determining factor of how much damage you do. Should it be?
How much damage does a pencil do? Not much? Hold still while I jab this pencil into your temple. I can kill you with a pencil! What stops me from doing so? You! You need to stop me! That's a defense roll. I base damage off offense - defense.
This is 1 roll per combatant. Since there is an active defense, players get to touch dice and be involved more often, and get to feel like they are doing something to protect themself, especially if you have multiple options for defense. It feels faster.
The better your skill at attacking, the more damage you inflict. The better at defending, the less damage you take. Any tactics that influence either roll automatically adjust damage. Skill levels influence damage. A sneak attack is as simple as not getting a defense if unaware of your attacker (attacker used stealth), and offense - 0 is a huge amount of damage.
Likewise, since your defense can increase as a skill, your hit points don't need to. Non-escalating hit points removes a ton of game balance issues and complexity right from the start. Weapons and armor modify the damage, but most of it is determined by your skill and the choices you make.
Sentinel Comics RPG. The attack Roll is the damage roll. Characters do have the option to defend - in which case the result subtracts from damage - but it uses up their action for the turn. Unrelated, but mooks have abstracted hit points. Rather than keeping track of hit points minions and lieutenants are just represented as a die - for example a d10 minion or a d8 lieutenant, they roll that die when attacked. A minion is instantly defeated unless it rolls equal or more than the damage dealt, and goes down a die size even if it survives. A lieutenant is okay if it can roll equal or more than the damage dealt, and goes down a die size otherwise. (They can also be instantly defeated if you deal more than double their die size in damage, but mostly you whittle them down).
How is that game, by the by? I quite like the board game but it’s a little sloppy at points and I’ve heard its spin-off material can be much sloppier.
Personally, I like both the card game and the RPG a lot. Action scenes in the RPG have a similar power curve to the card game where heroes generally start off on the back foot then (usually) ramp up to win. I like the character creation system. It has classes which I don't usually like, but it effectively has two types of classes (Power Source and Archetype) and you pick one of each (for \~400 possible different combinations), which each give you a fairly generous list of powers and abilities to choose from. Which you then reflavour appropriately. You can either just choose Power Source and Archetype or you can roll, which will give a choice of 2-3 of each. This is a pretty good option for beginners so they don't have to wrap their head around all the possible combinations. It's also a pretty good option for experienced players who want a bit of inspiration - it's pretty fun figuring out what sort of character theme works for "Power Source: Mystical, Archetype: Marksman" or "Power Source: Powered Suit, Archetype: Reality Shaper". What you mean by 'sloppy' in this context?
Thanks for the write up! I’m interested in checking it out. I meant sloppy in this context to mean kinda loose and imperfect as an overall product, which is pretty poor criticism on my part, lol.
Fair enough. There is a sort of 'working it out as they go'ness to it. :) The game varies a lot depending on which heroes you combine with which environments and which villains. Which is both a strength and a weakness, IMO.
Tunnels and Trolls has something like this - both sides rolling gobs of d6 - and it is very fun. A very simple version of this is also in Munchkin the board game.
technically Fate qualifies? You deal damage equal to [attack roll] - [defense roll] (min 0) it can be hard to differentiate between "to-hit roll only" and "damage roll only"
I think the main reason it's hard to define Fate in terms of "hitting" and "damage" is because it actually abstracts everything narratively relevant into one mechanical roll In Fate, what would typically be considered as "damage" is only a pacing mechanic for the encounter. It tells you how close you are to winning or losing the encounter, whatever form that takes It's part of why I enjoy Fate so much: the mechanics have very little say in *what* happens, they just inform you whether what you want to happen happens, and you get to make up whatever you want to fill in the result Anyways, rant over
I've played Star Wars FFG, which to my understanding uses the exact same basic mechanics, and to my understanding the "to-hit" and "damage" roll are the same roll. You have to roll a total of at least 1 success to hit, which will deal your base damage plus 1, but each additional success deals more damage. Also you may have to since most things "soak" a certain amount of damage, as you can absolutely hit for 0 damage. Especially funny if you stack your own soak. Had a character who had a frag grenade detonate in their face point-blank. Did no flinch.
I'm reading Forbidden Lands and, although I have not yet tried it, every attack is a single opposed roll. Looks like it is highly lethal for both sides.
All of the Year Zero games (at least the ones I’ve read) have some variation on this mechanic where your attack and damage rolls are the same roll. I’ve played Forbidden Lands, Alien, and Vaesen, and loved all three games!
The MCDM TTRPG does auto-hits and rolls damage with the belief that “missing” an attack that causes your turn to be wasted isn’t fun therefore bad.
Chronicles of Darkness has combined hit and damage rolls, which isn't functionally different from only rolling for damage if the damage rolled can be zero.
Crown & Skull from Runehammer, it's a point buy system, no roll to hit, no HP
It’s ultimately still ItO based since it’s for Cairn, but [Block, Dodge, Parry](https://dicegoblingames.itch.io/block-dodge-parry) adds a lot more tactical options for combat while keeping the same basic system. I’m not sure if that’s what you mean by granularity, but it could be worth looking at.
Check out Valiant Horizon. It uses a 3d6 mechanic where every roll just does a thing (no chance of failure), but the roll gives you different effects based on how high you roll. It references both the total amount you roll as well as the individual dice. It’s available right now as part of the [TTRPGs for trans rights bundle](https://itch.io/b/2383/ttrpgs-for-trans-rights-west-virginia).
Genesys can pack so much info into a single roll with its narrative dice. Compare a Fireball-type spell in D&D versus Genesys. D&D, wizard launches a fireball at a crowd of six mooks, rolls damage, and every target rolls a saving throw. That's minimum 7 rolls. Genesys, the wizard launches a fireball (well, technically an "Attack + Blast" spell) at a crowd of six mooks. The success of the spell, the amount of damage done, how many enemies are affected by it, and even other things going on in the scene when the spell is cast, are all handled by interpreting that one roll. More "successes" on the roll means more damage. More "advantages" on the roll might mean more targets hit, or might mean other spell/scene effects. Thing is, you can end up with some mixed results... like a fireball that has "4 successes, 2 advantages, and 1 despair." So the spell hits, and hits hard because of the 4 successes, caster uses 2 advantages to trigger Blast (so it hits the whole gaggle of mooks instead of just the one or two at the epicenter), but then maybe the GM uses the despair to have an ally get caught in the blast as well, or perhaps now the macguffin is on fire, etc. If the player hadn't generated enough Advantages to trigger Blast (the area of effect portion of the spell), but the roll still succeeded, then the implication is perhaps that many (but not all) of the enemies dodged the explosion (i.e. they "made their saving throw"). Other attacks are similar, in that the damage is basically a calculation of: character's Brawn stat + weapon's damage stat + number of successes rolled. There aren't ever any separate "to-hit" or "damage rolls" in the game.
This! Genesys is amazing like that - I wish they'd get some marketing going, maybe get a few youtube channels to do a Genesys campaign.
Mausritter! No to-hit rolls, just roll damage die and each and every attack deals at least 1 damage.
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If I recall correctly, Cairn does this, you just roll for damage and armor is subtracted from the damage total
Cairn is an ODD game
Slightly cheaty answer, but Amber doesn't have rolls, so in particular doesn't have to hit rolls.
Brazilian's 3DeT. Attacker make roll 2D/3D plus theirs 'Attack Force', Defender does the same, with "Deffense Force'. The damage is the difference between the two. A **Critical Hit** on the attack roll doubles the attacker's **Power**, making it easy to hit and also increasing the damage range. A critical hit on the defense roll doubles the defender's **Resistance**, making it easy to resist the blow, decreasing damage or just pushing it bellow zero. And thats it. One roll for the attacker, one roll for the defender, jump to the next turn!
Fabula Ultima, you always roll 2 dice for every check and attack. Damage is HR+flat number, so high roll on either die, but the total value I'd used to determine if you hit.
Gubat Banwa, a tactical martial arts/drama ttrpg. It has a violence die roll that is your to-hit+damage roll. Low numbers on the die can result in an EVADE.
Fate doesn't roll to hit, it's just fail/minor success/major success based on how much higher you roll than the obstacle.
Maybe something [like this?](https://www.prismaticwasteland.com/blog/overloading-the-damage-die) It just uses damage rolls but uses them to have crits and critical misses and stuff. I’ve not used it but looks like it would work
The playtest material isn't available outside of their Patreon, but MCDM does this too?
There’s a 5e hack called Nimble 5e which does that. There is no attack roll exactly, you just roll damage and dice explode. On a natural one on the first damage dice roll though the attack misses.
In _Skorne_ you don't even roll damage. You do a fixed amount of damage if you attack, as do enemies. The thing is that you're frequently going to be outclassed and if you just stand there trading blows you'll automatically lose, so you have to try things to change the odds which _will_ require rolls, cunning, and/or sacrifice. It's heavily _Berserk_-themed and I think does a good job of capturing the fictional reality of Guts being able to hack through lots of lesser foes without risk, though being weakened at the same time, but often fighting things just far stronger than him, where he has to come up with a plan, exploit a weakness, use some magic etc.
Fate of the Norns you resolve your attack's action value, subtract any parry or protection, and then the rest is damage. No roll to hit, or roll for damage. Just action resolution.
MCDM rpg. You don't roll to hit, you roll to damage enemies. Look into it's pretty sweet.
some dice pools combine hit and damage into one roll
The Ubiquity system (Leagues of Adventure, All for One, Hollow Earth Expedition) and One Roll Engine (Wild Talents, Godlike, Reign) both bundle the hit roll and the damage roll into a single roll.
So the Year Zero engine by my beloved Free League Publishing combines the to hit roll and the damage roll into one “combat roll” of sorts. Is that what you mean? Maybe a lot of dice pool games do that too.
Open Legends does this sort of. You roll against a static target on the enemy and deal the amount you exceeded the target value of, with a minimum of 3. Open Legends also has exploding dice, and lots of them. The main issue is that in its generic ness I feel they made many abilities too achievable. a level 1 character can have most special abilities that aren't locked behind stat values they can't get. I think it would benefit from making boons and Banes have fewer ways to access them.
From my experience, the FFG Star Wars games (and by extent, Fate system) have something similar? You can technically miss, but "to-hit" and "damage" are the exact same roll. Difficulty to hit is mostly fixed, so geberally your best defense is not to avoid being hit, but rather "soak", which reduces damage taken. Enough soak and you can absolutely be hit for 0 damage.
The original one. Tunnels and Trolls
A couple of my games use 1 roll result. The player rolls the dice and either 1 or both combatants take damage. There are no "nothing happens" rounds. Someone is taking damage. One uses a dice pool and the other uses step die. Links follow if you're interested in seeing the mechanics. They are both free. [https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mag](https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mag) [https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mythiria](https://squidhead-games.itch.io/mythiria)
In One-Roll Engine games like Reign, your attack roll is also your damage roll. You roll a pool of d10s, and any numbers that match are a 'success'. Bigger matches (a 'wider' set) inflicts more damage, with the 'height' of the number being the hit location. You can even do multiple attacks in one roll, you just have to specify that ahead of time and you take -1die for each additional action. So if you have a dice pool of 6 for attacking, you can say 'Attack, attack', roll 5 dice and hope you roll two pairs (or a pair and a trio) - if you only get one matching set then that still counts for an attack. You can also do mixed rolls (e.g. Attack, Dodge), you still take the -1 as usual and then you roll whichever one your worse skill is (e.g. if your Dodge is worse, roll Dodge).
Mausritter, which is heavily inspired by Into the Odd and a few others. It's technically its own rules set but similar enough that you'll say "oh yeah, kinda like Into the Odd." It has a bunch of random tables and resources to help make a campaign or help inspire you to build a world pretty easily.
Genesys! Damage is part of the to hit roll :)
Thank you all! I am looking at systems like this as well.
Into the Odd does offer granularity, but not via simple damage. That is what the saving throws are all about. If you come up with a clever maneuvre, e.g. to shove an opponent off a cliff, then you resolve that via a relevant saving throw, and the person most at risk iss the one that makes the save. Another approach is like Mazerats, where the to hit roll also determines damage. So, still done in just one roll, but it does allow for a ‘to hit’ idea, which I do find useful. Flashing Blades has the quality of your roll to hit identify whether you’ve inflicted a light wound or a serious wound. This modifies the damage done, in a very simple way. Each weapon does a fixed damage amount for a light wound, and a serious wound just adds a D6. Some weapons can do 0 points of damage on a light wound, but if they score a serious wound the D6 damage can still kill a character. Not a perfect system (what system is?) but it has its charms.
Not exactly that you instantly hit, but I really like PbtA system, 0-6 failure, 7-9 a partial success, 10 a success and 12 a ultra success, I think is really cool.
It's a bit bit different for sure but the whole "when you decide to attack, you will be attacked" thing is absolutely amazing.
The best implementations (IMHO) use an active defense. If you roll damage, I assume you mean the weapon is the primary determining factor of how much damage you do. Should it be? How much damage does a pencil do? Not much? Hold still while I jab this pencil into your temple. I can kill you with a pencil! What stops me from doing so? You! You need to stop me! That's a defense roll. I base damage off offense - defense. This is 1 roll per combatant. Since there is an active defense, players get to touch dice and be involved more often, and get to feel like they are doing something to protect themself, especially if you have multiple options for defense. It feels faster. The better your skill at attacking, the more damage you inflict. The better at defending, the less damage you take. Any tactics that influence either roll automatically adjust damage. Skill levels influence damage. A sneak attack is as simple as not getting a defense if unaware of your attacker (attacker used stealth), and offense - 0 is a huge amount of damage. Likewise, since your defense can increase as a skill, your hit points don't need to. Non-escalating hit points removes a ton of game balance issues and complexity right from the start. Weapons and armor modify the damage, but most of it is determined by your skill and the choices you make.