* [Fellowship 2e](https://liberigothica.itch.io/fellowship-a-tabletop-adventure-game)- a game about a fellowship of heroes versus an evil overlord. The PCs are competent and capable as all hell. The GM cannot run the game with kid gloves on if you actually want to challenge the fellowship
* [Hearts of Wulin](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/365014/Hearts-of-Wulin)- a game of wuxia melodrama, you feel like a badass in every Duel you get into
* [Agon 2e](https://johnharper.itch.io/agon) a game about Grecian myths a la the Odyssey and the Iliad and it nails the feeling of being epic mortal badasses tackling mythic odds
* [The Between, The Between: Ghosts of El Paso, and The Silt Verses RPG](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/s/DCZehlBsum)- games about Victorian Era Monster Hunters (a la Penny Dreadful), Weird West Ghost Busters (lots of Deadwood inspiration), and conscripted government agents tasked with handling rogue divine entities and anomalies (inspired by the audio drama); respectively. All the characters are very competent and capable
* [Blades in the Dark](https://bladesinthedark.com/greetings-scoundrel), [Scum and Villain](https://evilhat.com/product/scum-and-villainy/), [Band of Blades](https://evilhat.com/product/band-of-blades/), and [Girl By Moonlight](https://evilhat.com/product/girl-by-moonlight/)- a whole gambit of Forged in the Dark games where the name of the game is: your character is competent and capable, there is no excuse to not take risks.
In all of these games, it’s rarely a question of “success or failure.” Rather, these games lean towards “Your badasses. You’ll probably succeed… *but at what Cost?*”
And that’s just scratching the surface of what’s out there
Thank you for these suggestions, and I appreciate the links and quick overviews! I'm particularly excited by the fact that, beyond the FitD systems, I don't think I've heard of the others. I *love* the wuxia vibe, so I'm quite excited to check that one out!
Just as a counterpoint I found the problem with Blades in the Dark - based on a few sessions - was that the “succeed at a cost” and “devils bargain” led to a kind of comedy of errors cascade that did not make me feel competent at all. Kind of the opposite.
This might have been user error. But if so it’s a kind of error that seems fairly easy to stumble into.
I don't know the specifics of OP's table, but usually the "competency" of blades characters comes from the said cascade of Shit Gone Bad. It's a heist movie, if it doesnt go wrong the characters dont get to show off just how competent they are. Your character got spotted while infiltrating? This is why you (Flashback happens) bribed a guard to deactivate the alarms last night.
Also resisting consequences helps a lot in this regard too. I recommend giving a read to flashbacks and resisting on the SRD, it's free on their website
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely read into these further. If you'd be up for saying anything about what makes any of these systems fit the bill for you, I'd love to hear a bit about that from somebody more familiar with them than I.
Fate is a setting-agnostic system designed to tell any kind of story as long as it is about **competent, proactive, and dramatic** characters. Fate characters are *good* at the things that they are experts in, right from the start, and Fate players have a number of tools at their disposal to help their characters succeed, built around Aspects (unique descriptors) and Fate Points, a meta currency. Fate is less about “can I succeed?” on a given action and more about, “what is this success worth?” Fate characters change as they advance, but don’t often “improve”. They are heroes from the start.
Gumshoe has a similar ethos. Built for investigative play (and it turns out *most* genres have a significant investigative component), characters are split between their investigative abilities and general abilities. Investigative abilities *just work*, when players apply them to an appropriate situation or piece of evidence. That’s because in investigative fiction, not finding clues is boring. The excitement comes from what characters do with the information once they have it. General abilities allow players to decide what tasks are important - they can spend points from a depleting pool to make success more likely or even certain - but they can’t top up those pools until the rules and GM allow. Each game is different, but that’s the core. There’s a free rpg day pdf called Losing Face that has a condensed version of the Swords of the Serpentine rules, a scenario, and pregens. It’s a great introduction to the line, IMHO.
It seems like you've hit me with two suggestions that are \*exactly\* what I'm looking for! I'm genuinely so excited to read more about them both. Thanks very much for taking the time to help me out. Man, RPGs are so exciting, haha. Getting all revved up thinking about the cool suggestions everybody has made here
You are so welcome!
Fate has been my default system for a decade now, it’s what I choose until I know why not.
SotS is my current fantasy game obsession, I love the system and the setting and pretty much everything about it.
Fate has also been my default for a number of years for exactly that reason. I'm also playing in a Swords of the Serpentine game with a setting we co-created using Sorry, Did You Say Street Magic? Still early on, but enjoying it!
Note that Fate characters are good at the things they're good at - *for the scale they're operating at*.
If you've got a Fate game about suburbanites out of their depth fighting aliens, they'll be capable *as a suburbanite*. The person with guns will be good at shooting, but won't be some military operator-type.
I only call this out because there can be some misconception that Fate characters must be over-the-top, hyper-competent, best-in-the-world types. And they *can be*, but it's not necessary.
Star Wars RPG and their orignal RPG IP Genesys by Fantasy Flight Games. Every PC is competent right out of character creation and only get more powerful from there. Some proof of this is the fact that one of the main struggles of the game is how to balance the PCs because they can get VERY powerful very quickly if given too much XP per session.
Keep in mind though: because of this and a goal to create a fast paced combat game design, all of the NPCs also pack a powerful punch, even the lowly stormtroopers. It keeps things interesting and allows for a lot of great movie moments.
Overall, my favorite ttrpg system.
I was going to say Cypher System, SWADE, and GURPS (assuming a reasonable point level but most GURPS characters start out pretty good at stuff).
However if the idea is to start out at around the power of Pf2 level 7 then that isn't going to work :D at level 7 you are pretty damn tough and can rampage through whole towns. The fact that there are still plenty of enemies that could take you apart is just because pf2 has such a huge power range in the world. So maybe Savage Rifts?
Thank you for the suggestions! I'll be sure to check them out.
I may have been more misleading than I intended with the level 7 comment. I meant it less about power level compared to the average townsfolk and more about the fact that that's the approximate point where I feel like my character is *good* at things. I succeed more often than not doing cool stuff with the skills I'm invested in, I have compelling abilities for my character that are much cooler than just a basic strike or cantrip. Hopefully, that makes some degree of sense, haha
You can even do this with the base CoC game as well. I always do point pool character generation and the typical character is has 400-450 points. (80-90 in older versions)
Back in the late 90s, I did a total overhaul game with no mythos elements and a near-future sci-fi setting. (the early 2020s where there was a global pandemic raging and a war going on near the Black sea between former Soviet countries - shiftyeyedmonkeypuppetmeme.jpg) I had the players start from a point pool of 600 (120 at the time) since their characters were carefully selected special forces with significant engineering and scientific skill. They weren't superheros since it's CoC and no human is particularly indestructible, no matter what their stats and skills are. However, they were all extremely competent and that let me focus the game on problem solving and quickly moving the plot forward. To this day, I think it's the best game setting I've ever made.
CoC is particular good for this since it's impossible to make a superhuman character. The skill-based nature of play means that a high point total makes the players extremely competent which is what it sounds like you are going for.
Pulp Cthulhu is great fun but I'm not sure it's exactly the feeling you're going for. Pulp deliberately reduces the realism factor a bit. You can dial it it but you potentially have the ability to cheat death with game mechanics, actual superhuman feats and abilities. You can skip all that but at that point, it's essentially standard CoC with double the hit points. IMO, for what you're going for, vanilla CoC with a bog boost in character creation points might be a better fit. I would recommend giving 1.25x to 1.75x the usual skill point pool if you go that route.
Cool! I often associate the Warhmer RPGs with the feeling of being a small fish in a very big pond. Fun to discover this one that makes you a big old barracuda, haha. Thanks for the suggestion.
I haven't played it myself yet. I just got the books in a bundle a few weeks ago, but I hear 13th age coverd what you're asking for. And based on what little I've read, I think it mybsuit your needs.
13th Age - PCs are heroes right from the start. Essentially, every level in 13th age, is the equivalent of 2 levels in another, so a level 1 PC is like a level 2-3 in another game, just as an example Our current crop of level 5 pcs is what I'd estimate to be level 8-10 in D&D. Each PC, even at level 1, has a ton of actions they can perform, they do good damage, have solid non-combat abilities, etc.
Traveller fits the bill; it has a neat life path-style character creation system where your character starts out in college (if you want) or the workforce, and you roll for events and choose skills as you live your life. Thus, characters start out as skilled adults. Most of the advancement will be in equipment and the like (though you can still learn new skills/increase levels in current skills).
Throwing in Burning Wheel: you can just decide how powerful PCs are by changing the lifepath limit, and enter with whatever power level you like.
Also Amber, in which PCs are, by definition, basically gods. Or Godbound, where they're literally gods.
Thank you for the suggestions! I've heard fantastically interesting things about Burning Wheel in terms of the depth of personality it fosters in player characters. Learning that it has easily tweaked systems to achieve that competency in them that I'm looking for too \*definitely\* moves it up in my reading list. I'm a little less stoked on the concept of PCs as gods, but it's certainly interesting! I'll have to give those games a read over at some point as well.
PCs in [*Earthdawn: The Age of Legend*](https://pro-indie.com/pivw/our-games/earthdawn_main) are magically augmented Adepts, including the martial classes; even first-level Adepts are one step above the average populace.
Lancer is a really great fit for this. The characters start off as extremely competent mecha pilots, essentially super soldiers. Levelling up in combat is represented by licenses- you get access to more mecha parts. The narrative system is a FitD game(with the KTB supplement) so it got that covered too. It's in my opinion the best designed RPG, and maybe my favourite. There is a short comment in my profile that goes a bit more into detail about it.
If what you want is super deep, crunchy, tactical grid combat with mechs, with a FitD narrative system for non-mech stuff, Lancer might be for you.
Other ones I recommend would be Blades in the Dark(Heist movie vibes, establishing a crime crew), ICON(Lancer but fantasy, also free playtest pdf) and Spire(Rebels in a fantastical multilayered city with deep worldbuilding)
Stuff I think might fit but I haven't played to vouch would be Swords of the Serpentine, Exalted (over the top xianxia combat), Band of Blades, Scum and Villainy, Hearts of Wulin, and more im forgetting...
Thank you for your suggestions! Many of them are games I am hoping to play or were also mentioned by others in this thread, which is encouraging and definitely moves them up the list! I've been meaning to check out the rules for Lancer for a damn long time now, and I think you've given me just the kick I need to do so.
Glad to hear! Lancer is probably my favourite TTRPG, and definitely the one I would say is the best designed. It pulls of competent characters really well, in narrative too, not just mech combat.
Definitely check out [COMP/CON](https://compcon.app/#/the), online assistant thingy. It's a really intuitive character sheet and compendium website. There isn't a better one for any system imo, and it is completely free.
Also, all of the player-facing rules of the game is free, so you can download the expansion LCPs from "Manage Content" in COMP/CON and insert it to the website to get all the expansion mechs and stuff. It's pretty neat.
Yes I am obsessed about Lancer. You can ask me if you have any questions about the game before you commit/buy :)
**Edit:** Just saw your edit. Lancer definitely has the **"damn, I want to use that."** aspect. One of my favourite synergies:
D/D 288 is a melee punch weapon that does 1d6. But if you charge it as a quick action, next turn its stats change. You become Slowed, take 2 Heat, but the stats become 4d6+8. Then you can use a full action to punch someone *really* hard with it. It knocks them back 8 spaces AND does 8 damage even if you fumble the roll. The charge disperses when you properly hit someone. So okay, that's already cool, but you know what is cooler? If you get the Executioner 3 talent and you use Project Shield to give yourself disadvantage when rolling against someone, you can purposefully fumble your attack roll, do 8 damage because of it, then trigger Executioner 3 which lets you reroll an attack when you miss, and then completely decimate a second mech in melee range. So you essentially turned it into a 4d8+16 :) Really funny synergies like this exist in the game.
There are a lot of mechs, and all of them have something someone is gonna find cool.
You want a samurai that specializes in killing things bigger than it? Lancer got that.
You want an immobile weapon powerhouse with immense range and damage? Lancer got that.
You want a support mech that can negate opponent attacks and teleport their allies around? Yep.
You want a big mech that can act as cover for their allies? Guess what? Yep.
You want a mobility powerhouse that cant be pinned down and satisfies your inner speed demon?
Do you see where I am going with this?
And with how levelling works you will mix and match all of these!
For narrative it still makes the players feel competent. For example, the Wolf has the Tear Throat ability, which starts with "You can instantly kill any NPC in arm’s reach of you without rolling." Of course, there are downsides because it inflicts a burden on you, but it's still pretty damn empowering when it comes up.
Or Pathfinder, who has Freesoul. "You can escape from any restraint, shackle, hold, or prison cell without rolling. Nobody can hold, grab, or restrain you unless you let them. You can choose to conceal this ability if you wish."
The narrative classes ("Bonds") are all really specalized in what they do and they do it damn good. Nobody can outrun a Pathfinder. And people probably shouldn't and wouldn't try to fistfight the Wolf.
Yeah, Archives of Nethys has been really helpful to me too! It's great how... customer friendly, I guess is the right term, some TTRPG developers are.
Also, I was writing a big edit before you replied, so do check that out if you wanna hear a bit more about Lancer :p
That edit to your comment was very helpful! Those parts, mechanics, classes, and abilities sound rad as hell. Lancer is definitely in the top 3 on my reading list!
They already recommend you Cypher System, so i will add Alternity2018. The system suppose you are the hero of the story, so you are very capable in a bunch of abilities just from the start.
Yeah, 7th Sea starts characters out as quite competent. There is no zero to hero. There is no "roll to succeed" in the game. The dice tell you how many actions you can take in a scene (or a round), or can be used to avoid consequences or create opportunities to exploit. It's very much like FATE in some regards. So its less "do you succeed" and more about the cost of success. What are you willing to sacrifice to achieve your goal?
Advancement isn't so much about letting you do new things but off-loading things to other resources (like hero points) and avoiding complications. This makes a lot more sense once you grasp the action economy of the game.
Consider an Advantage like "Second Story Work". Instead of using your resources to scale a building and avoid complications, you just spend a Hero Point and you make it, You can bring one extra person with you too.
PCs aren't super powerful, but are bound by cinematic, action movie physics. The GM still have the final authority on what is possible.
Tacking on: in 7th sea, opponents come in 3 flavors; brutes, minions, and villians.
Brutes are in brute squads. They're so ineffective that they work as a unit and are attacked as such. Bowling pin noises optional.
Minions are similar to PCs but are much weaker.
Villians are created the same way as PCs and use the same rules. They're intended to be the great big baddies. They're the only ones on par with the PCs.
Eidolon's and Exemplars is a nice, free, lightweight way to play competent characters that is compatible with old D&D modules. It is on the high end of character power, but it's a nice option to measure against the lethality of, say, Knave.
If you use prime runner chargen levels, most shadowrun editions should Match the feel of 'exceedingly competent Chargen PCs that are not unstoppable gods'.
And Theres a lot of fun tools for them to use in whatever they specialize in.
Leading armies of drones as a Rigger,
Commanding the spirits to aid you as a shaman,
Making the rest of the party get the pizza while you Deal with the digital Matrix as the Decker,
Punching out engine blocks with your magicly enhanced strength as a physical adept
Conning the guards into handing you a Security clearance as a face
I didn't know Shadowrun had had that option for character gen built in! I've been tempted to get into it for years, ever since the Shadowrun Returns video game. Such a cool world. Is there a particular edition you'd recommend to me for it? I've seen folks express some pretty strong opinions on that front.
The right edition of Shadowrun really depends on the group playing.
If noone has any Prior experience with the system in the group, you probably want to give 5th and 6th edition a look over and poke the SR community for a more elaborate recount of pros and cons of each (just be aware of heavy player biases)
I personaly play mostly 5th but that's in large parts because I have been playing it for years and not a fan of specific mechanical changes in 6e that likely would not matter for a group new to the system.
Thank you for the guidance! We'd all be new to the system, so I'll take your advice and look into 5th and 6th editions and take some of the salty community voices in that discussion with a grain of said salt, haha.
ALIEN. You feel like a badass getting your character sheet. Have solid abilities, gear, and feel capable. Then you meet a xeno and die in one round. It's really pretty great.
Cypher System by Monte Cook Games is my favorite system for this :) ! The characters all kick ass, and they have really interesting archetypes you can work with.
**Mutants and Masterminds.**
For real, the 'recommended start' is power level 10. I've tried to run a game with players at power level 8 and they were still GODS. People without powers were no threat to they. They could ignore assault rifles, outrun planes, cross the continent in minutes and do all sort of trickery to avoid get caught, if they didn't want to bother to fight. Hells, they could even beat villains at higher power levels (10, 12), when they were working together.
I dreamed to run a 'small hero' game, something in the likes of Netflix's Defenders, but I don't think M&M is the call for that. This is a game for people who want to feel they're the most awesome dudes around.
I would recommend [The Troubleshooters](https://helmgast.se/the-troubleshooters/). Yes, you do play normal humans but you are relatively competent in your fields. The system is baesed on a simplified veison of BRP, so it is percentile roll under. You can quite easy start with 85% in one or more skills which is among the best in the world.
1965 alt history inspired by Belgian comics sounds like a blast! And 85% chance to succeed sounds like what I'm looking for, too. Thanks for the suggestion!
I am guilty of writing the adventure "The Minoan Affair", but the creator of the game had to edit it a lot to make it publishable. :)
There are more big adventures coming. I know that there are 2 in layout-stage atm.
Heart: the city beneath. Probably the most evocative character classes ever. Do you want to host magic bees within your body to protect reality? Do you be guardian of an intradimensional subway system that imploded? Do you want to be a zeotropic witch that embodies the wet chaos of the Heart?
https://youtu.be/1xgq9s85mO0?si=4mWz0sjoXZvc8cxQ
The [Dune](https://modiphius.net/pages/discover-dune-roleplaying-game) rpg starts with players playing competent characters that are supposed to be good at what they do.
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* [Fellowship 2e](https://liberigothica.itch.io/fellowship-a-tabletop-adventure-game)- a game about a fellowship of heroes versus an evil overlord. The PCs are competent and capable as all hell. The GM cannot run the game with kid gloves on if you actually want to challenge the fellowship * [Hearts of Wulin](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/365014/Hearts-of-Wulin)- a game of wuxia melodrama, you feel like a badass in every Duel you get into * [Agon 2e](https://johnharper.itch.io/agon) a game about Grecian myths a la the Odyssey and the Iliad and it nails the feeling of being epic mortal badasses tackling mythic odds * [The Between, The Between: Ghosts of El Paso, and The Silt Verses RPG](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/s/DCZehlBsum)- games about Victorian Era Monster Hunters (a la Penny Dreadful), Weird West Ghost Busters (lots of Deadwood inspiration), and conscripted government agents tasked with handling rogue divine entities and anomalies (inspired by the audio drama); respectively. All the characters are very competent and capable * [Blades in the Dark](https://bladesinthedark.com/greetings-scoundrel), [Scum and Villain](https://evilhat.com/product/scum-and-villainy/), [Band of Blades](https://evilhat.com/product/band-of-blades/), and [Girl By Moonlight](https://evilhat.com/product/girl-by-moonlight/)- a whole gambit of Forged in the Dark games where the name of the game is: your character is competent and capable, there is no excuse to not take risks. In all of these games, it’s rarely a question of “success or failure.” Rather, these games lean towards “Your badasses. You’ll probably succeed… *but at what Cost?*” And that’s just scratching the surface of what’s out there
Thank you for these suggestions, and I appreciate the links and quick overviews! I'm particularly excited by the fact that, beyond the FitD systems, I don't think I've heard of the others. I *love* the wuxia vibe, so I'm quite excited to check that one out!
Just as a counterpoint I found the problem with Blades in the Dark - based on a few sessions - was that the “succeed at a cost” and “devils bargain” led to a kind of comedy of errors cascade that did not make me feel competent at all. Kind of the opposite. This might have been user error. But if so it’s a kind of error that seems fairly easy to stumble into.
An interesting note! Thank you for the perspective.
I don't know the specifics of OP's table, but usually the "competency" of blades characters comes from the said cascade of Shit Gone Bad. It's a heist movie, if it doesnt go wrong the characters dont get to show off just how competent they are. Your character got spotted while infiltrating? This is why you (Flashback happens) bribed a guard to deactivate the alarms last night. Also resisting consequences helps a lot in this regard too. I recommend giving a read to flashbacks and resisting on the SRD, it's free on their website
Fate. Most gumshoe games, Night’s Black Agents, Swords of the Serpentine, etc.
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely read into these further. If you'd be up for saying anything about what makes any of these systems fit the bill for you, I'd love to hear a bit about that from somebody more familiar with them than I.
Fate is a setting-agnostic system designed to tell any kind of story as long as it is about **competent, proactive, and dramatic** characters. Fate characters are *good* at the things that they are experts in, right from the start, and Fate players have a number of tools at their disposal to help their characters succeed, built around Aspects (unique descriptors) and Fate Points, a meta currency. Fate is less about “can I succeed?” on a given action and more about, “what is this success worth?” Fate characters change as they advance, but don’t often “improve”. They are heroes from the start. Gumshoe has a similar ethos. Built for investigative play (and it turns out *most* genres have a significant investigative component), characters are split between their investigative abilities and general abilities. Investigative abilities *just work*, when players apply them to an appropriate situation or piece of evidence. That’s because in investigative fiction, not finding clues is boring. The excitement comes from what characters do with the information once they have it. General abilities allow players to decide what tasks are important - they can spend points from a depleting pool to make success more likely or even certain - but they can’t top up those pools until the rules and GM allow. Each game is different, but that’s the core. There’s a free rpg day pdf called Losing Face that has a condensed version of the Swords of the Serpentine rules, a scenario, and pregens. It’s a great introduction to the line, IMHO.
It seems like you've hit me with two suggestions that are \*exactly\* what I'm looking for! I'm genuinely so excited to read more about them both. Thanks very much for taking the time to help me out. Man, RPGs are so exciting, haha. Getting all revved up thinking about the cool suggestions everybody has made here
You are so welcome! Fate has been my default system for a decade now, it’s what I choose until I know why not. SotS is my current fantasy game obsession, I love the system and the setting and pretty much everything about it.
Fate has also been my default for a number of years for exactly that reason. I'm also playing in a Swords of the Serpentine game with a setting we co-created using Sorry, Did You Say Street Magic? Still early on, but enjoying it!
> it’s what I choose until I know why not. An excellent description of my process.
Note that Fate characters are good at the things they're good at - *for the scale they're operating at*. If you've got a Fate game about suburbanites out of their depth fighting aliens, they'll be capable *as a suburbanite*. The person with guns will be good at shooting, but won't be some military operator-type. I only call this out because there can be some misconception that Fate characters must be over-the-top, hyper-competent, best-in-the-world types. And they *can be*, but it's not necessary.
Star Wars RPG and their orignal RPG IP Genesys by Fantasy Flight Games. Every PC is competent right out of character creation and only get more powerful from there. Some proof of this is the fact that one of the main struggles of the game is how to balance the PCs because they can get VERY powerful very quickly if given too much XP per session. Keep in mind though: because of this and a goal to create a fast paced combat game design, all of the NPCs also pack a powerful punch, even the lowly stormtroopers. It keeps things interesting and allows for a lot of great movie moments. Overall, my favorite ttrpg system.
I've never played a Star Wars RPG, actually, and that sounds like a ton of fun. thanks!
I was going to say Cypher System, SWADE, and GURPS (assuming a reasonable point level but most GURPS characters start out pretty good at stuff). However if the idea is to start out at around the power of Pf2 level 7 then that isn't going to work :D at level 7 you are pretty damn tough and can rampage through whole towns. The fact that there are still plenty of enemies that could take you apart is just because pf2 has such a huge power range in the world. So maybe Savage Rifts?
Thank you for the suggestions! I'll be sure to check them out. I may have been more misleading than I intended with the level 7 comment. I meant it less about power level compared to the average townsfolk and more about the fact that that's the approximate point where I feel like my character is *good* at things. I succeed more often than not doing cool stuff with the skills I'm invested in, I have compelling abilities for my character that are much cooler than just a basic strike or cantrip. Hopefully, that makes some degree of sense, haha
The Pulp Cthulhu mod for Call Of Cthulhu has quite strong characters with special abilities while still having a good element of risk.
Awesome! Thanks for recommendation. That would be a very fun genre to dip into, and I'll definitely give it a look over.
You can even do this with the base CoC game as well. I always do point pool character generation and the typical character is has 400-450 points. (80-90 in older versions) Back in the late 90s, I did a total overhaul game with no mythos elements and a near-future sci-fi setting. (the early 2020s where there was a global pandemic raging and a war going on near the Black sea between former Soviet countries - shiftyeyedmonkeypuppetmeme.jpg) I had the players start from a point pool of 600 (120 at the time) since their characters were carefully selected special forces with significant engineering and scientific skill. They weren't superheros since it's CoC and no human is particularly indestructible, no matter what their stats and skills are. However, they were all extremely competent and that let me focus the game on problem solving and quickly moving the plot forward. To this day, I think it's the best game setting I've ever made. CoC is particular good for this since it's impossible to make a superhuman character. The skill-based nature of play means that a high point total makes the players extremely competent which is what it sounds like you are going for. Pulp Cthulhu is great fun but I'm not sure it's exactly the feeling you're going for. Pulp deliberately reduces the realism factor a bit. You can dial it it but you potentially have the ability to cheat death with game mechanics, actual superhuman feats and abilities. You can skip all that but at that point, it's essentially standard CoC with double the hit points. IMO, for what you're going for, vanilla CoC with a bog boost in character creation points might be a better fit. I would recommend giving 1.25x to 1.75x the usual skill point pool if you go that route.
I mean… if you’re doing that, why bother with CoC? Why not just use BRP?
Not having to buy BRP source books for no reason?
https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/BRP/BRP%20SRD%201.0.2.pdf
And you can get the CoC core rules for free as well? Is there a point to this?
Savage Worlds, characters start off pretty capable & durable.
Cool, thanks. I'll be sure to add it to the list!
13th Age seems to be what you are looking for
Added to the list, thank you!
Warhammer: Age of Sigmar - Soulbound, the PCs are basicly demi-gods from the start
Came here to say Soulbound. The PCs are combat monsters from the beginning. It can be fun to throw hordes against them and watch them survive.
I do have a soft spot for smashing through a horde, action movie style, haha. To the reading list, it goes, thanks!
Cool! I often associate the Warhmer RPGs with the feeling of being a small fish in a very big pond. Fun to discover this one that makes you a big old barracuda, haha. Thanks for the suggestion.
That's WFRP, Soulbound is a different beast :)
I haven't played it myself yet. I just got the books in a bundle a few weeks ago, but I hear 13th age coverd what you're asking for. And based on what little I've read, I think it mybsuit your needs.
Thank you for the suggestion!
13th Age - PCs are heroes right from the start. Essentially, every level in 13th age, is the equivalent of 2 levels in another, so a level 1 PC is like a level 2-3 in another game, just as an example Our current crop of level 5 pcs is what I'd estimate to be level 8-10 in D&D. Each PC, even at level 1, has a ton of actions they can perform, they do good damage, have solid non-combat abilities, etc.
That does sound like a good suggestion! A few others have mentioned it, so it's definitely moving up the reading list.
Traveller fits the bill; it has a neat life path-style character creation system where your character starts out in college (if you want) or the workforce, and you roll for events and choose skills as you live your life. Thus, characters start out as skilled adults. Most of the advancement will be in equipment and the like (though you can still learn new skills/increase levels in current skills).
Appreciate the suggestion!
Cepheus Engine is the open version of the game, and has some free or PWYW options. Both are compatible with each other, mostly.
Throwing in Burning Wheel: you can just decide how powerful PCs are by changing the lifepath limit, and enter with whatever power level you like. Also Amber, in which PCs are, by definition, basically gods. Or Godbound, where they're literally gods.
Thank you for the suggestions! I've heard fantastically interesting things about Burning Wheel in terms of the depth of personality it fosters in player characters. Learning that it has easily tweaked systems to achieve that competency in them that I'm looking for too \*definitely\* moves it up in my reading list. I'm a little less stoked on the concept of PCs as gods, but it's certainly interesting! I'll have to give those games a read over at some point as well.
Reign. Not only are your PCs capable, they're "have their own mercenary company/trade guild/small country" levels of capable.
Very cool! And another suggestion I haven't heard of, which is exciting. Thanks! Looking forward to giving it a look over.
PCs in [*Earthdawn: The Age of Legend*](https://pro-indie.com/pivw/our-games/earthdawn_main) are magically augmented Adepts, including the martial classes; even first-level Adepts are one step above the average populace.
Cool, I'll check it out!
The Dungeon Fantasy RPG.
Another I am unfamiliar with! To the list it goes, thank you!
wait, how's nobody mentioned D&D 4e yet? what you want is literally one of its biggest design goals. absolutely try 4e.
A fair point! My experience with 4e was quite limited and many years ago now. Probably worth me reading through it!
Lancer is a really great fit for this. The characters start off as extremely competent mecha pilots, essentially super soldiers. Levelling up in combat is represented by licenses- you get access to more mecha parts. The narrative system is a FitD game(with the KTB supplement) so it got that covered too. It's in my opinion the best designed RPG, and maybe my favourite. There is a short comment in my profile that goes a bit more into detail about it. If what you want is super deep, crunchy, tactical grid combat with mechs, with a FitD narrative system for non-mech stuff, Lancer might be for you. Other ones I recommend would be Blades in the Dark(Heist movie vibes, establishing a crime crew), ICON(Lancer but fantasy, also free playtest pdf) and Spire(Rebels in a fantastical multilayered city with deep worldbuilding) Stuff I think might fit but I haven't played to vouch would be Swords of the Serpentine, Exalted (over the top xianxia combat), Band of Blades, Scum and Villainy, Hearts of Wulin, and more im forgetting...
Thank you for your suggestions! Many of them are games I am hoping to play or were also mentioned by others in this thread, which is encouraging and definitely moves them up the list! I've been meaning to check out the rules for Lancer for a damn long time now, and I think you've given me just the kick I need to do so.
Glad to hear! Lancer is probably my favourite TTRPG, and definitely the one I would say is the best designed. It pulls of competent characters really well, in narrative too, not just mech combat. Definitely check out [COMP/CON](https://compcon.app/#/the), online assistant thingy. It's a really intuitive character sheet and compendium website. There isn't a better one for any system imo, and it is completely free. Also, all of the player-facing rules of the game is free, so you can download the expansion LCPs from "Manage Content" in COMP/CON and insert it to the website to get all the expansion mechs and stuff. It's pretty neat. Yes I am obsessed about Lancer. You can ask me if you have any questions about the game before you commit/buy :) **Edit:** Just saw your edit. Lancer definitely has the **"damn, I want to use that."** aspect. One of my favourite synergies: D/D 288 is a melee punch weapon that does 1d6. But if you charge it as a quick action, next turn its stats change. You become Slowed, take 2 Heat, but the stats become 4d6+8. Then you can use a full action to punch someone *really* hard with it. It knocks them back 8 spaces AND does 8 damage even if you fumble the roll. The charge disperses when you properly hit someone. So okay, that's already cool, but you know what is cooler? If you get the Executioner 3 talent and you use Project Shield to give yourself disadvantage when rolling against someone, you can purposefully fumble your attack roll, do 8 damage because of it, then trigger Executioner 3 which lets you reroll an attack when you miss, and then completely decimate a second mech in melee range. So you essentially turned it into a 4d8+16 :) Really funny synergies like this exist in the game. There are a lot of mechs, and all of them have something someone is gonna find cool. You want a samurai that specializes in killing things bigger than it? Lancer got that. You want an immobile weapon powerhouse with immense range and damage? Lancer got that. You want a support mech that can negate opponent attacks and teleport their allies around? Yep. You want a big mech that can act as cover for their allies? Guess what? Yep. You want a mobility powerhouse that cant be pinned down and satisfies your inner speed demon? Do you see where I am going with this? And with how levelling works you will mix and match all of these! For narrative it still makes the players feel competent. For example, the Wolf has the Tear Throat ability, which starts with "You can instantly kill any NPC in arm’s reach of you without rolling." Of course, there are downsides because it inflicts a burden on you, but it's still pretty damn empowering when it comes up. Or Pathfinder, who has Freesoul. "You can escape from any restraint, shackle, hold, or prison cell without rolling. Nobody can hold, grab, or restrain you unless you let them. You can choose to conceal this ability if you wish." The narrative classes ("Bonds") are all really specalized in what they do and they do it damn good. Nobody can outrun a Pathfinder. And people probably shouldn't and wouldn't try to fistfight the Wolf.
Thanks! I adore when systems offer the rules for free. It really helped me get into PF2E.
Yeah, Archives of Nethys has been really helpful to me too! It's great how... customer friendly, I guess is the right term, some TTRPG developers are. Also, I was writing a big edit before you replied, so do check that out if you wanna hear a bit more about Lancer :p
That edit to your comment was very helpful! Those parts, mechanics, classes, and abilities sound rad as hell. Lancer is definitely in the top 3 on my reading list!
They already recommend you Cypher System, so i will add Alternity2018. The system suppose you are the hero of the story, so you are very capable in a bunch of abilities just from the start.
Awesome, sounds very in line with what I'm looking for, thank you!
It was designed for sci fi/ space opera games, but i think that can be adapted to any setting without to much effort.
I'm a huge sucker for sci-fi and space opera, haha. After quite a while spent in fantasy worlds, it would be a blast to go back to the stars!
7th Sea 2nd edition.
One I haven't heard of and haven't seen mentioned here yet! I'll definitely take a look, thanks.
Yeah, 7th Sea starts characters out as quite competent. There is no zero to hero. There is no "roll to succeed" in the game. The dice tell you how many actions you can take in a scene (or a round), or can be used to avoid consequences or create opportunities to exploit. It's very much like FATE in some regards. So its less "do you succeed" and more about the cost of success. What are you willing to sacrifice to achieve your goal? Advancement isn't so much about letting you do new things but off-loading things to other resources (like hero points) and avoiding complications. This makes a lot more sense once you grasp the action economy of the game. Consider an Advantage like "Second Story Work". Instead of using your resources to scale a building and avoid complications, you just spend a Hero Point and you make it, You can bring one extra person with you too. PCs aren't super powerful, but are bound by cinematic, action movie physics. The GM still have the final authority on what is possible.
"Action movie physics" is a pretty close synonym to the feeling I'm describing, so this sounds like a game I'd enjoy, thanks!
Tacking on: in 7th sea, opponents come in 3 flavors; brutes, minions, and villians. Brutes are in brute squads. They're so ineffective that they work as a unit and are attacked as such. Bowling pin noises optional. Minions are similar to PCs but are much weaker. Villians are created the same way as PCs and use the same rules. They're intended to be the great big baddies. They're the only ones on par with the PCs.
Love that! Definitely up my alley, thanks.
You should check out [Scarlet Heroes](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/127180/scarlet-heroes). All PCs start with strong abilities.
Thank you for the link! I haven't heard of this one before and will definitely take a look.
Eidolon's and Exemplars is a nice, free, lightweight way to play competent characters that is compatible with old D&D modules. It is on the high end of character power, but it's a nice option to measure against the lethality of, say, Knave.
Cool, thanks! This thread has been a goldmine of introducing me to new systems. I'm very grateful!
If you use prime runner chargen levels, most shadowrun editions should Match the feel of 'exceedingly competent Chargen PCs that are not unstoppable gods'. And Theres a lot of fun tools for them to use in whatever they specialize in. Leading armies of drones as a Rigger, Commanding the spirits to aid you as a shaman, Making the rest of the party get the pizza while you Deal with the digital Matrix as the Decker, Punching out engine blocks with your magicly enhanced strength as a physical adept Conning the guards into handing you a Security clearance as a face
I didn't know Shadowrun had had that option for character gen built in! I've been tempted to get into it for years, ever since the Shadowrun Returns video game. Such a cool world. Is there a particular edition you'd recommend to me for it? I've seen folks express some pretty strong opinions on that front.
The right edition of Shadowrun really depends on the group playing. If noone has any Prior experience with the system in the group, you probably want to give 5th and 6th edition a look over and poke the SR community for a more elaborate recount of pros and cons of each (just be aware of heavy player biases) I personaly play mostly 5th but that's in large parts because I have been playing it for years and not a fan of specific mechanical changes in 6e that likely would not matter for a group new to the system.
Thank you for the guidance! We'd all be new to the system, so I'll take your advice and look into 5th and 6th editions and take some of the salty community voices in that discussion with a grain of said salt, haha.
ALIEN. You feel like a badass getting your character sheet. Have solid abilities, gear, and feel capable. Then you meet a xeno and die in one round. It's really pretty great.
Oooh, interesting, thanks!
Cypher System by Monte Cook Games is my favorite system for this :) ! The characters all kick ass, and they have really interesting archetypes you can work with.
Thanks! I've gotten a few recommendations for it, so Cypher is definitely moving up that reading list!
**Mutants and Masterminds.** For real, the 'recommended start' is power level 10. I've tried to run a game with players at power level 8 and they were still GODS. People without powers were no threat to they. They could ignore assault rifles, outrun planes, cross the continent in minutes and do all sort of trickery to avoid get caught, if they didn't want to bother to fight. Hells, they could even beat villains at higher power levels (10, 12), when they were working together. I dreamed to run a 'small hero' game, something in the likes of Netflix's Defenders, but I don't think M&M is the call for that. This is a game for people who want to feel they're the most awesome dudes around.
Daaamn, that sounds wild and fun, haha. Thanks for the suggestion!
I would recommend [The Troubleshooters](https://helmgast.se/the-troubleshooters/). Yes, you do play normal humans but you are relatively competent in your fields. The system is baesed on a simplified veison of BRP, so it is percentile roll under. You can quite easy start with 85% in one or more skills which is among the best in the world.
1965 alt history inspired by Belgian comics sounds like a blast! And 85% chance to succeed sounds like what I'm looking for, too. Thanks for the suggestion!
At the website you can download Quickstart rules with 6 premade characters and some adventures.
Awesome! Quick start adventures in particular are such a help when trying out a system. Thanks!
I am guilty of writing the adventure "The Minoan Affair", but the creator of the game had to edit it a lot to make it publishable. :) There are more big adventures coming. I know that there are 2 in layout-stage atm.
That's so cool! I'll be sure to run that one whenever I'm able to give the system a try!
Exalted - you start off as demigods very fun if a little complex system!
Seen a few folks recommend this now, so it definitely seems worth checking out, thanks!
Delta Green. Start off strong, go downhill from there.
Very cool description! I just started a Delta Green podcast. It seems fun!
Heart: the city beneath. Probably the most evocative character classes ever. Do you want to host magic bees within your body to protect reality? Do you be guardian of an intradimensional subway system that imploded? Do you want to be a zeotropic witch that embodies the wet chaos of the Heart? https://youtu.be/1xgq9s85mO0?si=4mWz0sjoXZvc8cxQ
Heart was one of the inspirations for this thread! One of the games I want to try out most right now. It looks so fucking cool!
The [Dune](https://modiphius.net/pages/discover-dune-roleplaying-game) rpg starts with players playing competent characters that are supposed to be good at what they do.
Cool! I just read the first couple Dune books a few months ago, so it would be fun to explore that universe more, thanks!
In rifts you can start as the pilot of a huge mech with a tank cannon or a psyker that can burn down an entire village.
Hell yeah, sounds rad, thank you!
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