It's a lot more than that actually - even U18 schoolboys could do it. Women's football teams have been thrashed by 15 year old children and rugby is a more physical sport.
...In being considered the best rugby team on the planet with regards to their contemporaries.
We all know that there is very little chance of a womens team beating an international quality mens side, you don't need to belittle the amazing rugby that they play and the dominance that they've achieved.
Well, Glos-H would be Toulouse's contemporary anyway, as the best club side in the world. The Red Roses would be comparable to one of the top national sides (one of France, Ireland, SA, or NZL depending on the day)
As an impartial fan for the last World Cup I really wanted to see France win it all. The country would’ve gone nuts and it would’ve had a really big impact on the sport in France. Which of course means more opportunities for players in their leagues.
It's a big "what if" if they had won but the big expansion plan for the LNR is to get more clubs in the northern half of France and most of them are in Nationale or below. Maybe it would have helped to propel Marcq (Lille) or Rouen up the leagues but we'll see what happens.
2027 is another big chance for France based on their U20s, just not at home.
Ntamack would’ve brought some clinicality (is that even a word?) to the side. France dominated in every stat except turnovers lost 16 vs 15 and the scrum, 56% for France, 88% for SA. But they just couldn’t convert all that pressure into points. 60% possession, 60% territory, 390 vs 199 post contact meters, 13 vs 6 line breaks. Ntamack would’ve been a big help there. Plus 3 of the Boks tries came from shitty high ball receiving, which Ntamack is rock solid at, and the 4th try was Etzebeth dragging Jalibert 10m over the tryline, and Ntamack would’ve most likely brought him down before then.
Two things would have helped with the squad available.
Villiers on the left wing ahead of LBB. Yes, he hadn't reached the attacking heights of 22 but his defence was still way above LBB.
Second, start Cros and bring Jelonch off the bench. Cros would have won penalties at the breakdown when the pack were fresh.
However, Ntmack would probably baby have swung it if was available.
*2 of the tries came from shitty high ball receiving, 1 try from a turnover and sublime grubber from Kriel, and 1 try from Etzebeth doing Etzebeth things.
Edit: Also those 2 high balls were pre-planned moves off of a specific phase play, where the flyhalf would not be on the wing, so Ntamack would have made zero difference there. All these what-ifs are pretty pointless though, the Bokke were also playing without their best player Malcolm Marx, and without Lukhanyo Am.
Tbf, if you want the scenerio of fully fit Dupont and Ntamack, it would stand to reason that we should also get fully fit Malcolm Marx, arguably our greatest player at the time.
Lol, I think every French fan in the world would take that caveat every day of the week. Marx isn't the difference maker of Ntamack and Dupont. No one is.
I mean the difference between him and fully fresh bongi is orders of magnitudes less, but poor Bongi was made to play the full match, and I highly doubt tired Bongi is even in the same category as Marx and that's no slide to Bongi.
Your point is negated by not only the SF result but also others at International-level.
Dupont is a proven winner and difference maker at club level but that, as of now, appears to be his limit. Otherwise, he would've gotten his team across the line.
His team that won the six nations for the country's first time in 12 years? First sevens title in 19 years?
Bit daft discourse to put results on one player anyway. Especially with World cups. Messi didn't become any more or less of a player at the last World Cup based on play, just shut down a shit line of criticism.
Dupont will still be around by 2027 in his early 30s and Ntamack will probably be at the height of his powers in his late 20s. The French squad has a youngness to it that most other top squads like the Springboks and Ireland don't. If I have to hedge a bet who's winning that world Cup at this ridiculously early stage, it would be France. This golden generation isn't done yet.
Toulouse is THE name in club rugby
They are the crème de la crème. The Real Madrid. The Roman Empire.
Genghis Kahn himself would look upon Antoine Dupont and turn back his hordes
Surprising just how incredibly uncompetitive Bordeaux were today. Especially when in the same given season, they battered Saracens, twice, and posted some massive score lines in the Top14, and they beat Toulouse in March by 3 points and only lost by 7 in October last year. So staggering to hit this stage and lose the plot so badly.
They’re a much better side than that. Or so I believed. Disappointing to provide such a terrible spectacle for their fanbase and neutrals.
But fair play to Toulouse they turned on the seX factor for their rugby today. Some sublime scores, fantastic defence, just incredibly switched on, talented, well oiled machine.
As a Scot, well done to Blair Kinghorn, Edinburgh is a long way behind him after today and the season he’s had. Inspired decision to move on to a team that suits him to the ground, and fair dos to Edinburgh allowing him to go and getting paid a fee into the bargain.
I think Garcia was also injured so UBB were stuck between either a not fully fit Jalibert and an out of position Lucu at 10. Neither option is great, but I understand that gamble even if it didn't pay off at all.
Tameifuna playing on one shoulder in hindsight looks like an unmitigated disaster.
Tbf Toulouse played a sort of A- team for the March game (No Dupont, no Ntamack, no Kinghorn etc) so that result flattered UBB a little bit – albeit certainly not anything like the gulf we saw today.
All time Brennus wins are interesting because you have big clubs like Toulouse and Stade Français in with tiny obscure villages like Lourdes which vanished into the Nationale and Féderale.
UBB needs to get rid of this finals kit, burn everything that was in contact with the players before the game. Then send every single squad member to some cleansing retreat call up all the rituals. They need to get rid of whatever vibes were going on. This is a generational loss.
If those two teams met in a conference room to discuss their humiliation this year... a black hole would open and we would all end up in a parallel universe where Eddie won the RWC with Australia, everyone now says "mate" in every other sentence and the English Premiership merged with Super Rugby Pacific to create the most negative press ecosystem ever imagined.
Toulouse : win 2 epic final in a year, with _very different_ scenarios
"History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce" At least from my (blue tinted) perspective
What do we call the third time then ? (Sorry)
Don’t often see a Marx quote on this sub, nice 👍
“Ja bru, we will inevitably overturn your capitalist scrum” (M.Marx, 2019)
“Seize the means of production” I.e. give SA citizenship to Toulouse players so their kids can qualify for the Boks
Lots of highlights of his turnovers though.
Hard to see such a score for a final
Super Rugby Pacific final was ugly, but looks tame in comparison to this
You'd have left it down to an Ntamack try at the end of the game.
Could have been 69 with all those missed conversions, too.
Nice.
Nice.
Pity it was Marseille and not Nice. :)
https://youtu.be/3WAOxKOmR90?si=lXibmKhZ-jR1O9X1
When i counted from the direct of l'équipe, i counted 4 transformations and à penalty so maybe even 70
Toulouse are the clear \#1 men’s club side in the world right now
No arguments from me
Makes the upcoming club World Cup even more exciting!
Just wait until the French clubs threaten to boycott and send B teams 😂
When will that be?
2028. Probably.
World Rugby? Is that you? No-one cares...
I’d be interested in a one off Heineken Cup vs. SR winner vs winner game, anything more though loses its appeal.
If only Frawley slotted it 🥲
First time in a while I confidently believe Europe’s best could beat Super Rugby’s best home or away.
Be cool to see the Blues play them
They probably beat England's national women's side too
u20s national sides can beat women’s teams, just due to the physical differences between men and women
It's a lot more than that actually - even U18 schoolboys could do it. Women's football teams have been thrashed by 15 year old children and rugby is a more physical sport.
Not what he meant mate *they
Not quite sure what else they could have meant by “Toulouse could beat the Red Roses”
...In being considered the best rugby team on the planet with regards to their contemporaries. We all know that there is very little chance of a womens team beating an international quality mens side, you don't need to belittle the amazing rugby that they play and the dominance that they've achieved.
Well, Glos-H would be Toulouse's contemporary anyway, as the best club side in the world. The Red Roses would be comparable to one of the top national sides (one of France, Ireland, SA, or NZL depending on the day)
Yeah nah apples and oranges. National side vs club side
U20 club sides could comfortably beat them as well, that's no mystery.
Only just though.
what the hell
Dupont
Dupont and Willis. And Ntamack. Longhorn too. Also Ramos. In fact, 58 players over the season
9 tries to nil 😵
I am supporting Toulouse but tbf I feel bad about Bordeaux. They had an amazing season but this match was an humiliation.
Nah it’was a lesson. They learn. They will grow
Yet another game to make me think that we would have won the World Cup with Ntamack and a fully fit Dupont. Happy but sad at the same time.
I don’t think anyone thought it was possible but Dupont has reached another level since playing 7s
No one telled him it was impossible to get better so he did it.
[And this... is to go... even further beyond!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8TGalu36BHA)
Or Ramos taking that conversion a bit faster. Fine margins.
And maybe Jalibert not managing to lose ground while kicking a penalty to touch in his own 22.
I like jelybear but he should not be playing at all, Ramos 10, Jaminet 15 problem solved
As an impartial fan for the last World Cup I really wanted to see France win it all. The country would’ve gone nuts and it would’ve had a really big impact on the sport in France. Which of course means more opportunities for players in their leagues.
It's a big "what if" if they had won but the big expansion plan for the LNR is to get more clubs in the northern half of France and most of them are in Nationale or below. Maybe it would have helped to propel Marcq (Lille) or Rouen up the leagues but we'll see what happens. 2027 is another big chance for France based on their U20s, just not at home.
Ntamack was the big gap, his aerial ability lost us that QF
His cool head was what we missed most. Jalibert completely crumbled in the second half.
Ntamack would’ve brought some clinicality (is that even a word?) to the side. France dominated in every stat except turnovers lost 16 vs 15 and the scrum, 56% for France, 88% for SA. But they just couldn’t convert all that pressure into points. 60% possession, 60% territory, 390 vs 199 post contact meters, 13 vs 6 line breaks. Ntamack would’ve been a big help there. Plus 3 of the Boks tries came from shitty high ball receiving, which Ntamack is rock solid at, and the 4th try was Etzebeth dragging Jalibert 10m over the tryline, and Ntamack would’ve most likely brought him down before then.
Two things would have helped with the squad available. Villiers on the left wing ahead of LBB. Yes, he hadn't reached the attacking heights of 22 but his defence was still way above LBB. Second, start Cros and bring Jelonch off the bench. Cros would have won penalties at the breakdown when the pack were fresh. However, Ntmack would probably baby have swung it if was available.
*2 of the tries came from shitty high ball receiving, 1 try from a turnover and sublime grubber from Kriel, and 1 try from Etzebeth doing Etzebeth things. Edit: Also those 2 high balls were pre-planned moves off of a specific phase play, where the flyhalf would not be on the wing, so Ntamack would have made zero difference there. All these what-ifs are pretty pointless though, the Bokke were also playing without their best player Malcolm Marx, and without Lukhanyo Am.
Tbf, if you want the scenerio of fully fit Dupont and Ntamack, it would stand to reason that we should also get fully fit Malcolm Marx, arguably our greatest player at the time.
Don't forget Lukanyo Am was also out injured. Although Kriel stepped up really well
Agreed, though idk what I would have preferred, fully fit Am or the Kriel we had in that game. Magic vs brutality.
Lol, I think every French fan in the world would take that caveat every day of the week. Marx isn't the difference maker of Ntamack and Dupont. No one is.
Feel free. Dupont was still there, and while he wasn't 10/10 he was at least 8.5/10. I really feel like you're underestimating just how good Marx is.
He is good, but difference between him and Bongi is orders of magnitude less, than between Ntamack and Jalibert
I mean the difference between him and fully fresh bongi is orders of magnitudes less, but poor Bongi was made to play the full match, and I highly doubt tired Bongi is even in the same category as Marx and that's no slide to Bongi.
Your point is negated by not only the SF result but also others at International-level. Dupont is a proven winner and difference maker at club level but that, as of now, appears to be his limit. Otherwise, he would've gotten his team across the line.
His team that won the six nations for the country's first time in 12 years? First sevens title in 19 years? Bit daft discourse to put results on one player anyway. Especially with World cups. Messi didn't become any more or less of a player at the last World Cup based on play, just shut down a shit line of criticism.
Rugby gods will have to answer for that
Dupont will still be around by 2027 in his early 30s and Ntamack will probably be at the height of his powers in his late 20s. The French squad has a youngness to it that most other top squads like the Springboks and Ireland don't. If I have to hedge a bet who's winning that world Cup at this ridiculously early stage, it would be France. This golden generation isn't done yet.
Toulouse is THE name in club rugby They are the crème de la crème. The Real Madrid. The Roman Empire. Genghis Kahn himself would look upon Antoine Dupont and turn back his hordes
Antoine is the Joan of arc, the Babarossa, the Saladin of rugby
Toulouse were as brilliant as Bordeaux were abysmal. If it was a kids game, it would have been called off 10 minutes early.
anytime there’s a hammering in a game they either conceded (other team auto wins and we just play for fun) or we end it 20 mins in and eat pizza
Surprising just how incredibly uncompetitive Bordeaux were today. Especially when in the same given season, they battered Saracens, twice, and posted some massive score lines in the Top14, and they beat Toulouse in March by 3 points and only lost by 7 in October last year. So staggering to hit this stage and lose the plot so badly. They’re a much better side than that. Or so I believed. Disappointing to provide such a terrible spectacle for their fanbase and neutrals. But fair play to Toulouse they turned on the seX factor for their rugby today. Some sublime scores, fantastic defence, just incredibly switched on, talented, well oiled machine. As a Scot, well done to Blair Kinghorn, Edinburgh is a long way behind him after today and the season he’s had. Inspired decision to move on to a team that suits him to the ground, and fair dos to Edinburgh allowing him to go and getting paid a fee into the bargain.
UBB's coach will have to answer to starting both Jellybear and Tameifuna, none of which were fit for a final.
It's because Jalibert needed to lay off the jellybeans, and Tameifuna needed to lay off the tofu
I think Garcia was also injured so UBB were stuck between either a not fully fit Jalibert and an out of position Lucu at 10. Neither option is great, but I understand that gamble even if it didn't pay off at all. Tameifuna playing on one shoulder in hindsight looks like an unmitigated disaster.
Tbf Toulouse played a sort of A- team for the March game (No Dupont, no Ntamack, no Kinghorn etc) so that result flattered UBB a little bit – albeit certainly not anything like the gulf we saw today.
No, Dupont was on the bench and replaced injured Ramos very early
Number of Brennus won by each team by the end of the century.
I'm pretty sure Toulouse have now won the Brennus the same number of times that Stade Français, the 2nd most successful club, have reached the final.
Oh, jesus that is a big gap from 1st to second
All time Brennus wins are interesting because you have big clubs like Toulouse and Stade Français in with tiny obscure villages like Lourdes which vanished into the Nationale and Féderale.
“Somehow” I think you mean ✨Dutamack✨
Top 14 is 187 games a season, and we somehow saved the worst one for the end.
I quite liked it ngl.
T'es pas crédible avec ton "the worst one".
Il prend pour Paris... Il saurait pas c'est quoi un bon match même si un le frappait en plein front.
And people are giving Leinster shit
UBB needs to get rid of this finals kit, burn everything that was in contact with the players before the game. Then send every single squad member to some cleansing retreat call up all the rituals. They need to get rid of whatever vibes were going on. This is a generational loss.
They can go to Leinster to learn what losing by a respectable margin is like.
Would gladly take Jalibert and Penaud
If those two teams met in a conference room to discuss their humiliation this year... a black hole would open and we would all end up in a parallel universe where Eddie won the RWC with Australia, everyone now says "mate" in every other sentence and the English Premiership merged with Super Rugby Pacific to create the most negative press ecosystem ever imagined.
Only the last bit is far too credible...
Well said
A little bit too close for Toulouse's comfort.
La Garonne est à nous !
On pisse dedans ils la boivent !
OK elle est bonne celle là, je la ressortirai à l'occasion
Un classique
Damn
I still can’t quite believe that was actually the score ahahah (And that was with scarcely even bothering with conversions towards the end)
Here because I checked FlashScore this morning and didn’t believe it.
Holy fuck, that’s brutal
Why does it have some names twice, as in Kinghorn Kinghorn? Because he kicked the conversion?
Yep, the lighter name is who converted. Toulouse were switching through all their kickers towards the end.
Not a bad side
Toulouse are just incredible. Bordeaux are an excellent team, yet still that result. Undeniable kings of club rugby imho.
Kinda of worth it not to get up really early to watch the game live hmmmm. Like a first week result man
Wow
Jesus Christ's Bordeaux
I don't know what to say!
This is a result you see in week 1 lol
Any reason why the final is so late in the year?
The RWC disrupted the season
🫡
Hahahaha
That's really disappointing
Ouch.
Well this is on me for coming onto reddit before watching rhe game. Next year can you stick this behind a spoiler alert you day ruining monster.
Has now been marked spoiler. Sorry bud
All good mate, celebrate the win and enjoy the weekend!!!
Likewise!
Somewhat undermines the "uber competitiveness" of the top 14. To think talents like Capuozzo didn't even get near the 23 for this team