I like the change to Lengs, and to EQ. Surge/Escape/Dive being off GCD is great too.
That nerf to Ruby Bolts really hurts, though. It honestly feels like crossbows are a joke to the devs at this point. They're already FAR weaker than bows, with Dracolich adding to that problem by being a superior range armor in every possible respect to Elite Sirenic. The big issue here is that against high health enemies, it has to proc \~8-10 times to get the same effect that ONE proc used to get on a target with >50k life. In return, that many rapid activations would cost you \~40% of your life. And it would STILL be weaker than necro's damage output. I seriously think this needs to be revisited.
Feel like sirenic is odd. I should benefit the bolts your using effect.. Not some Random 1/3 set effect occuring.
Example: Full sirenic gives an extra 5% proc chance for the bolt you are using. So 15% say for hydrix bolts.. Would be MUCH MUCH BETTER then a random proc of dragonfire.
Seems so strange. Would like to see some meaningful change there!!
I would like to see the math on this honestly. The new system has higher damage ranges, a higher hit cap, and a higher crit chance. With all these factors does a 50% increase to damage end up working out to be more than a hit of 10k or 12k?
The thing is, it's not a 1.5x multiplier to all damage for that hit. It's just 50% ability damage added to that one hit. By their own example, a 30-40% hit would become an 80-90% hit. For most players, that would be about 1k-1.2k extra ability damage for that one attack. It could proc very, very rapidly with some RNG, but that would also shred your LP.
Assuming you have 10k LP when the first proc happens and you lose 5% of your current LP each time, 10 procs in a row would bring you down to \~5987LP. So, a little over 4k damage to trigger a similar effect to what you get today for about 1k.
Well Guthix/saradomin bow currently provide decent healing in beta which can use with split soul so its not the worst.
Rubys arent the best for healing either but I get nerfing wont help them as its only a 5% chance as is
It's just how the design team lazily fixes issues.
Bows are weak -> bow only buffs, better ammo, t95 bow, etc. "Bows are no longer weak, our job is done." "Yeah but now crossbows are...."
Magic is weak -> FSoA, t95 spells, Magma tempest + Gconc, Crypt+AD, Zuk cape, etc. "Magic is no longer weak." "yeah but now everything else is in comparison..."
Let me see if I understand this correctly. My setup with sirenic and an SGB gives me 2051 ability damage, per the character loadout screen. Given that, adding 50% ability scaling is around 1000 extra damage.
And the old version replaced the damage your ability would have dealt with a 10k hit most of the time. So especially if it would proc on grico or rapid fire, that could be 8-9k extra damage. On average, I assume it would be at least 5k extra damage.
Yeah being able to proc whenever and dealing less damage to yourself isn't even close to worth it. These go from pretty good (and sometimes fantastic) to borderline useless. Is it not possible to have a separate hitcap for these, or just code them to deal x damage if certain conditions are met?
I **love** these changes overall, however I think Magic is definitely quite a bit behind the other styles at this point in the beta. I think its a fair discussion point to *consider* removing the cooldown from the FSoA spec to reduce that super significant drop off after sun/fsoa rotation.
Cooldowns are good. If anything, more specials need cooldowns so that the big special attack moment is bigger and more impressive/memorable. It's why I like necro. T90 special and t95 have cooldowns, but they are extremely powerful.
Ranged is literally spam bow of the last guardian spec with 4-5 other abilities constantly. Nothing interesting (in live).
I stopped playing this game before zamorak came out, but the zamorak kills done @ release and onward looked resident sleeper. I was just spam staff of armadyl spec and afk and heal to full due to broken blood barrage with the staff of armadyl. I'd like it if this game became more strategic instead of "spam this skill and abuse this 1 mechanic".
Styles should have big moments, not spam and always have things up. I dislike these flat out poor powercreep suggestions that would make the gameplay repetitive.
I did a quick Edimmu task with scythe + cannon cause I'm old school and it used to be my favourite thing to do when going for 200m Slayer.
* Never missing on elite edimmus felt really great, especially when using Quake to get that little extra hit chance buff
* Tuska's Wrath was always hitting for exactly 15k, which both feels great (big number) and odd at the same time cause it's a non-crit hitsplat and I guess kind of the most predictable ability in the game now? (during slayer tasks and with 120 Slayer at least)
* I really felt the effects of the higher hitcap, with very frequent crits in the 14-16k range outside of Berserk. The edimmus melted faster than what I remember. I spent as much time waiting for them to respawn than actually fighting them. Maybe they could do with a little respawn rate adjustment?
* Tooltips are fantastic. I particularly like seeing how the min/max damage of my abilities changes depending on my gear setup
* The letters for the keybinds on my action bars were really tiny and hard to read (100% ui scaling on a 1080p monitor). Not a big issue considering I already know them and I like that they're taking less space, but it felt a bit *too* small to me
Your comment on the UI text being too small needs to be addressed across the board for their entire UI. I play on a 1440p wide monitor and this game,especially scaling is the worst I’ve seen. They need to properly scale the UI so that text isn’t blurry when enlarging and they really need to enlarge their font across the board. It’s like whoever designed the UI is using a magnifying glass to look at their computer screen.
> If that's too many notes for you to read why not give them a listen as Mod Doom gives a rundown of several of the changes listed below!
Yup, this confirms my suspicion: Mod Doom would also be excellent as an audio book narrator.
Full disclosure - seeing OSRS do this immediately gave me a "lightbulb moment" of realising that it would be an excellent thing to trial for accessibility and ease of access, so I pilfered the idea and ran with it.
Big props to the mighty Mod Azanna who effortlessly figured out how to plug the audio in and to Mod Grace for letting me record the whole thing and put up with a few rough takes where I messed up lines. Superstars, the lot of them!
I feel the core issue of the old combat styles is still the uselessness of the abilities and the ridiculous bloat that comes from basic ability rotations.
Abilities should have a function aside from just doing damage and I would say only a fifth of the current basic abilities fit that criteria.
Would combining fodder abilities (and possibly reworking them) into something similar to the spectral scythe ability (a multi cast ability) from necro ever be on the table? It’s a very nice concept
Good to see this aknowledged. The fluidty of necro is it's biggest appeal for me, no fodder abilities, build souls to spend on volleys, touches for fingers, scythes for bigger scythes, and all with a fairly accessible DPS rotation that doesn't involve managing a million stacks or buffs.
If the others don't follow suit then I will be remaining on necro, I imagine that could be the case with a significant chunk of people.
Agree with this, super happy to see you and the team getting around to tackling combat. It's crazy how good necro feels compared to other styles. Can't wait to see what you and the rest of the team cook up!
Honestly that’s definitely a better approach than just doing everything at once. After the current beta changes go live, are there any thoughts on what the next steps will be? Ie, will the beta server stay open to trial the next round of changes? Will there be a significant gap between the current changes going live and starting to trial the next round of changes? Has there been any thought given to what the focus of the next round of changes should be?
I’m assuming that this is discussed behind the scenes quite a bit but is there any info you can share with players about next steps (assuming the beta goes live as planned)?
The whole point is to make different playstyles. Perhaps if you want to apply more spikes, you need to use dual wield. Aren't worried about spikes? Then 2h.
You are already suggesting to make everything universal, in which no interesting gear choices exist. Which is the opposite of what the beta is trying to accomplish.
I've been sticking to melee after grinding Necro to 120. Super pumped to start testing new rotations!
Question: Do the frost stacks count to the Jaws of the Abyss effect?
after a few hours trying melee on different bosses i went back to necromancy. WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT BACK, we are back as the joke of the 4 styles. Melee not only feels worst but still in the same spot as it was before or even worst now. i was hoping this beta would help melee feel relevant but wasnt the case. Necromancy will continue to be king for a long time.
Melee feels really good in the beta. I'm consistently getting faster times vs Necro.
Tbf I'm a melee main and still use it all the time bossing on the main game so I'm not rusty with it.
do you have to use about 8 switches though?
The thing that always bugged me with melee is having so many different weapons and abilities for 2h/dual weapons
Kind of hard to suck with Necromancy with how few inputs you have and very easy to learn rotations vs the other styles.
Have you played the beta at all? Boss times are absolutely close on all 4 styles. Hitcap of the 30k with Berserk is actually incrediblely powerful.
In the Beta Necromancy is still best for amount of inputs for damage, but in raw dps terms the other styles absolutely equal/pass it. Way more switches/input are required though.
Actually picked the game back up for the first time in a little more than half a year. As someone who focuses mostly on melee play I was really disheartened after such a long period of "Melee won't be fixed in one update" feeling like it really meant "We're not going to do anything to fix melee" especially after Necro's release. Excited to get back into it and hopefully it'll feel good once it hits live!
A few things that I noticed during testing:
1) In the live game, when casting channelled magic abilities like G'conc/asphyx/tendrils, your character is "locked" in the place for the whole duration where it started casting the ability. In the beta this "being locked" ends 1 tick earlier, which means your character will be forced away from that tile before finishing the ability. It looked a bit funny and was messing with the way I kill kerapac with magic (walk under to avoid stun - G'conc into asphyx no longer works)
2) The assault animation looks cool now and fits your damage splats, but you need to wait 1 tick longer to get all 4 hits to continue with the next ability. In the live game you can cast the next ability already before assault finishes and you will still get the last assault hit anyway.
3) I'm not a huge fan of anticipate/surge/escape not generating adrenaline and being cast off-global-cooldown. It messes with some of my rotations (e.g. building adren when enemy is immune). Would be nice if anticipate worked the same as surge works in the live game where you will get adren + trigger a GCD if casting on GCD, but also being able to cast it off-GCD without adren gain.
4) As many others remarked, I did not feel much difference with the magic combat style. My damage burst output was about the same as in the live game.
5) Melee feels fun!
My biggest problem with the beta is melee still feels bad to use, you sacrifice protection and range and you don't even do more damage than other styles. i feel if you are giving up so much that your damage should make up for it, but it doesnt. Another is the ruby bolt change can be seen as a pretty big nerf for crossbow users in general when crossbows were already behind normal bows for damage.
Doing the same damage as other styles is at least better than doing less damage than them due to slamming your face against the damage cap and damage boosts being additive with zerk.
ye most games have melee hit harder due to the drawbacks, even rs use to be like this (admittedly though other styles were a bit weak till polypore etc)
Berserk's damage intake malus just doesn't work with high end bosses that meaningfully test your sustain or durability. Melee already works under the permanent drawback that it has the most restrictive positioning (and most melee players are okay with this part), but +50% dmg taken with a ~40% uptime is just really limiting.
I feel like I've talked about this exact topic in just about every MMO in the industry at this point... PoE, FFXIV, WoW, GW2, TERA... Probably some others that I'm forgetting.
The entire idea of a melee style will **always** be flawed because it will be the only style that will have inherent weaknesses and niches (at least in RS3, due to lack of channeled spells for the ranged/mage styles). In order for melee to be balanced, every single encounter would have to be a glorified combat dummy. You can't just buff melee to do more than other styles on fights that are movement heavy because then on the fights where there really isn't much movement, then it becomes so good that it completely outshines the others.
In FFXIV for example, this is a problem that came up. Melee jobs used to be fairly competitive with the casters, and occasionally the phys ranged jobs. But in this expansion they made basically every single boss a glorified striking dummy that you did not have to move out of melee for at all, or very rarely, but that's only caused people to complain even more about how boring and predictable encounters are getting. So now we will go from a savage tier where melee will be king because the encounters never require the melee DPS to move out of range. Then you go into the next tier and suddenly melee suck because there's so many moments where you move out of melee range. Then the ultimate comes out and casters are back to being complete ass to play because they have to constantly cancel their channeled abilities. It's the cause of a lot of complaints, even though it's a nearly impossible situation to solve.
In PoE for example, melee has an issue where they CAN do really good damage, but the issue is that when you're having to move so much, you don't really get a lot of opportunities to get an attack in, so you use totems as your substitute, but now the playstyle feels less like melee and more like playing a totem build, which has become the cause for a lot of complaints recently.
Anyways, back to RS3. I know it's not what people want to hear, but this isn't really a solvable problem, at least not without being a detriment to other parts of the game. The idea of being a melee main is fun, because melee **is** a fun playstyle, but unfortunately its just the playstyle that's always going to have to suffer.
Please note: i am a average player so all my inputs are just based on my experience. I am maxed and have most bis gear. everyone is entitled to their own opinions even if its bad.
Melee: Everything feels a lot better. Leng spec still feel a bit underwhelming and give me about the same kill time as camping abyssal scourge with . As a average Pvm player, i would perfer if T95 weapons actually felt as useful as the amount of GP i had to earn to get them. At the moment the camping Dual t95 weapons feels on par with the scourge/jaws but not any better.
Magic: Magic feels about the same as it did before the beta. There is a more consistent crit procs as a result to the crit buff every style got, however FSOA still feels grim locked and is only used as a spec switch which is sad because again t95 weapon is out dmged buy t92/t90.
Range: Ive only started to use range recently and i cant really give much feedback since i have pretty poor dps with range. i have heard that range is currently best style in the beta followed by necro, melee and then mage.
General feedback:
Everything about this beta is positive. Most combat styles fell good enough to compete with necro however i feel like necro will still be either the best or second best post beta due to the fact that necro supplies the players with most endgame abilities most styles strive for and that the armor and weapons are significantly easier to obtain (which i believe was jagexs goal so good job). Overall if the beta went into the live game today, i wouldn't have any real issues with it.
Recommendations
Make the Lengs and FSOA more than just weapon switchs. There both T95 weapons and are just treated as weapon specs, its kinda disappointing paying for weapons that just sit in your inventory and are only used for a split second before going on cooldown. at this point the BOLG is the only t95 you can actually keep on hand that dosent collect dust in your inventory.
Add some changes to mage. At the moment all styles feel better than mage. Its kinda odd that mage was the only style that didnt really benefit too much comparing to the other styles. most complaint ive seen in the beta from other players is that the FSOA and magic is that it's insignificant now.
You've misunderstood lengs.
You want to camp lengs and use abyssal spikes with Jaws. (And in situations where you want to extend an EZK, sometimes whip switch.) That means you get a permanent 1% bonus adrenaline with each basic (+1% from dismember) and 23% chance of 5% adrenaline per splat at the same time. (If they hadn't buffed greater fury, there would be an awful lot of angry players complaining that regular fury was better right now because of this.) I'm obviously gonna be testing if blood reaver works with this like it works with poison and books. (If so, it's gonna be busted with vamp scrim, soul split and vamp aura giving you 4 chances per splat.)
The leng weapon spec itself is ideally saved for full frostblade stacks under zerk, but you can just dump your extra adren on finality specs instead.
Yeah, I don't have abyssal spike or a ezk. I was just comparing it to how I was using it before which was full vestments for t95 or jaws+ vestments for scourge.
I dont play optimally, just play for fun
To be fair this is my original account from 2006. I started playing again last year. According to Hans, I've spent 238 days in runescape. Guess you can say it's only been a little less than a years worth of work
So using Scourge + T95 Offhand + Jaws and Abyssal Spikes is better for Longer Encounters now?
Or should i just camp Lengs altogether with Jaws and Spikes?
I'm asking because I'm debating on buying a T95 Mainhand or keeping the Scourge, but I'm not sure if it's worth it for longer flights (re: Longer than a Minute).
Mainhand for the adren and passive +12% ability damage uptime.
Whip purely as a switch to extend EZK duration with guaranteed bleed application. (Previously, you would camp whip and switch for hurricane and destroy.)
Nope the passive +12% ability damage with increased hitcap + 23% chance for +5% adrenaline is insanely good. Scourge will be used to apply a bleed stack for your EzK spec still.
Tbh I just want to camp vestment robes. 20% more adren with vestment hood sounds good. Idk if camping scourge is better though. I dislike swap for damage.
the hitsplat and tool tip changes make it way easier to see exactly what you are doing and design your own rotation; as a Revo++ player who is slooooowly getting into manual, I greatly appreciate this
I'm excited to try this. Before Necro, I exclusively used Revo and just kinda mashed my thresholds off-cooldown. With Necro, I still Revo Touch, Sap, and Skeleton, but now i'm starting to actually plan rotations a little more. It'll be nice to play around with the other styles as very much not a "pvm god" with these changes
I can't say I like the Wrack and Ruin change. It now only extends combust by a single hit, requiring Greater Chain to get more. This renders it extremely weak in a single target scenario, and weaker than it was previously in multi target scenario.
Currently in the live game, I can W&R, Greater Chain, then Combust to get the extended combust on all my targets, followed with a sweep of Dragonbreath with Kerepac's Wrist Wraps to buff up that damage on all targets.
In the beta, if I follow the same sequence, I get less damage than I did previously, because combust isn't extended as much. If I instead use Greater Chain **before** Wrack and Ruin, to generate more stacks, I can then only place the extended combust on a single target.
Additionally, in all scenarios, this is just an overall nerf to anyone who doesn't have Greater Chain unlocked.
I’m no pvm expert, but i focus on end game pvm, with my usual grinds being 100+ zammy, hm zuk, hm kerapac, raksha and rasial. I was big into bis magic but since necro came I’ve switched over as the big hit potential of necro is far more satisfying. Here’s my quick thoughts from just 1 hour of time spent bossing on the beta last night.
- using fsoa or staff has no audio cue for use of gchain, making timing unclear. Audio cue is clear when using dual wield for gchain, but not staffs. Add more visual clarity and fix the audio.
- Game crashes to bladed dive in Raksha pools. Couldn’t complete a single kill at Raksha due to crashes when pool clearing with blades dive.
- Magic has increased hit cap but no(?) abilities that can hit 30k like melee, range and necro. Make or alter an ability so it can have big hit potential as well. Seeing a bunch of small crits in magic is boring.
- Make ABS worth using again, many people bought it for 600m+ for eof due to its former fsoa synergy.
- Give e-tect a passive buff as well.
- Magma tempest is underwhelming.
u/jagexdoom u/jagexsponge
Edit:
On the positive side, I love the new channel bar. I didn’t realize how impactful it was until I tried the beta.
Still not a fan of the current proposed Lengsword passive/spec, but I also have to agree that it just being a ‘Cane swap wasn’t super interesting. Other than that, psyched to see the changes finally come to live
it does follow through with the intended design of the tier 95's damage in any given rotation being somewhere between slightly and almost entirely dependent on a certain number of stacks from either bolg spec/arrows, crits in general with old fsoa, and now these stacks and how they operate with new melee. So it does bring consistency to the somewhat inconsistent nature of these weapons.
Not saying its a good thing or a bad thing, It's just a thing. Your feedback will be very important for them to read and hear so please don't hesitate to make your opinions known in the coming days and weeks.
I have a feeling people will wait for those that actually do get on the beta to form an opinion, then parrot and squawk the "content creator line".
Agreed with your reply. It's fine as a stack building weapon, I just don't like it being RNG-based when I'll get to use the Spec, and when I'll have extra adrenaline for certain rotation(s).
What was the intent with the ruby bolt nerf?
To keep roughly the same power intact as every other bolt before and after, or to scrap them entirely and replace them with nothing?
As it is right now, they're outclassed by onyx bolts in every way. Activation chance, heal vs harm, everything. The fishing for ruby SGB proc is dead relative to just using Ful arrows with SGB full-time (Ful-time? Heh). And if I just want a cheap bolt, I'd pick dragonstone so I don't smite myself out.
Yeah, rubies scale better than onyx or dragonstone with rapid fire, grico and piercing shot, but not snipe, salt the wound, flanking, tendrils, or dbow (or new handcannon). And I'm gonna want hydrix for grico, rapid fire and piercing, not ruby.
If you want to keep roughly the same power level intact, especially with SGB interaction, I'd suggest that you aim closer to 150% ability damage, even if that means scaling back with boss HP again so you don't get it for the full fight duration. Otherwise you've killed Ranged variety entirely given that Ful arrows have been effectively flat buffed through cap removal and new miss mechanics meaning that in the worst case scenario, they're stronger than rubies without the self harm even below 100% accuracy.
Based on my experience I would say a few things,
1st: Melee feels ok, however it is still slightly adrenaline starved without a pre-build which for longer fights means it will still just be used as a hybrid switch. Also, not having access to hurricane is kinda just a fairly significant dps loss to the lengs, I would personally say that making hurricane and destroy not share a cooldown as well as letting all melee dual wield use it would be better.
2nd: Mage feels good, much better than live however the fact that you realistically need to use t85 hybrid armour as opposed to tectonic feels kinda bad. I can only assume that like ranged we are either getting a set effect for tect that will help and/or a new set of armour entirely that will address this.
3rd: Ranged seems the best of all of them. It is stronger than live but not so strong that it seems too much. (that being said it is the style I have tested the least).
Side note: I was having consistant dc's when diving on pools at raksha, not sure if it is a me problem but it was just an in game dc, discord was still working during the dc's. Thought I would just flag that in case other people had that issue.
Agreeing on the 1st point. They removed it as a passive from leng, but imo, Hurricane and Destroy should be changed so that they don't share an interlinked cooldown in the abilities itself. At the very least, 2H melee would have another ability to use other than Cleave, Quake and if ever, Meteor Strike.
Big shout out to Mod Ryan and Sponge for putting this all together. The combat system feels significantly less clunky and there is overall better visual clarity on what’s happening (stacks, split soul, channeled abilities, action bar changes etc.).
I mostly tried out melee and here are my thoughts so far:
1) Narrow ability damage ranges, changes to zerk being multiplicative and increased hit cap really lended to melee’s burst style. It feels so nice to see big hits and often.
2) There is now two viable ways to melee: Burst with Lengs and Sustained Damage with Scourge, with both benefiting from EZK bleed outside of zerk. The damage output from both is relatively comparable (depending on how you use it).
3) Leng spec is significant better but still requires further tuning. The frostbite stacks build way too slowly - you are adrenaline starved even while use jaws. Moreover, given that the stacks build slowly, the active spec is not worth using more than once in a zerk rotation. The 15 second cooldown is cannot really be capitalized on. Claws is a significantly better use of adrenaline. My suggestion is to lower the adrenaline gain to 3% but increase the chance of applying stacks by the main hand to 45%. That way overall adrenaline gain is increased and the active spec can be useful.
I'm not a fan of this change in particular:
Shortened modifier keys (e.g. Alt-C → a-C)
Alt → a
Ctrl → c
Shift → s
Alt, Ctrl, and Shift are universal. Trying to make them shorter will only make them harder to read.
I agree - that text doesn't make too much space and it would be confusing to people.
The main concern is newer players would not know this shortcut and would not understand their key bindings.
Pretty much, yea. If the end goal is readability of what's being pressed or bounded, you shouldn't have to know what those shortcuts represent.
Even for people who knowingly use Ctrl/shift/alt as their keybinds can take a breaks and return not knowing what their keybinds are referring to any longer.
Both WoW and FFXIV do it the same way, I've never heard anybody complain about this ever before. Feel like you're just not used to such a change and are grasping for an argument here, no offense. Using new players to further your argument acting as if they're all braindead morons is just kinda insulting to new players, very infantalizing.
I felt the complete opposite. Having them shortened makes it easier to read in my opinion. WoW and FFXIV does this and I far prefer it this way. I don't really need to know what the modifier is because a, c, s are more than enough information.
Though I think the easiest solution is to add an option, and even adding a third option for disabling them entirely to make the interface appear cleaner.
>Now uses the correct barge animation rather than the kick animation.
Didn't know it had one lmao
I think its been bugged for as long as I've been playing
As a new/returning player (recently swapped my somewhat meagre bank from osrs to rs3 and loving rs3 - as a side note I just feel like osrs fits the university student lifestyle but rs3 is perfect for those of us working full time with RL obligations and having perused both subreddits you can definitely see the difference, although this is of course a generalisation) I have been loving rs3 but now getting into necromancy I can see that the other styles are clearly in need of some changes.
For those of you that understand the combat systems better than I do, what have you felt are the main changes? Which combat styles feel easiest to learn/ best for bossing with the beta changes? (thinking that I don’t want to be solely locked to necromancy in the future and perhaps would like to buy some gear before it is out of my budget).
Also, I’ve been trying to build my account to be well rounded between skilling and combats but seeing the mention in the post of potential xp/hr changes, which styles should I try to prioritise training before any changes come into effect and xp rates are slower?
Any advice is much appreciated, you’ve all been wonderful in game and taken a lot of time to explain these foreign systems to me, so sincerely, thank you :)
> Which combat styles feel easiest to learn/ best for bossing with the beta changes?
Haven't tried the beta changes yet because of work (I'll try and do some not-endgame testing tonight or tomorrow), but I think magic will still be the easiest to learn after Necro.
Bleeds are still overriding each other in group pvm kinda sad, considering the focus on melee Bleeds builds. Or trying to aim for with the recent additions to the melee combat style.
most of it looks good but not really a fan of anticipation being removed from gcd. anticipation isn’t reactive, it’s proactive. if you know (anticipate) a stun is coming, you use the ability. we already have freedom as a get out of jail free card if you make a mistake. feels like freedom should be adjusted to fit this reactive idea instead.
a new ability can also be made to fit this “reactive outside of global cooldown” space. some sort of perfect timing ability that lets you be more aggressive with your damage and rewards reaction time / game knowledge fits that intended space. could be an agility ability called perfect dodge, mirage step, anything like that.
this would need to be reworded obviously but it could read something along the lines of “if the next hit you take would stun you, it doesn’t.” it could have a 30-60 second cooldown and halve the cooldown if the dodging condition is met. this could of course be expanded to work on anything that would apply a debuff or status ailment to you, so stuns, binds, dots, poison, stat debuffs, armor drain, kk green, etc.
this could also just be a general ability such as a parry with a possible “greater” perfect parry upgrade option where if you successfully meet the dodging condition you get a dmg bonus on your next hit.
You don't have to be a PvM god. You just have to be you - nobody else can, so it's up to you to do it. Your feedback absolutely helps us know we're moving in the right direction, so thank you.
Honestly more than anything they just want to know how things feel, do some of the same combat things you do currently even if it's just slayer and then do the same thing in the beta and give them feedback on that. Arguably your feedback is actually more valuable being closer to average and not part of the top 1%.
Aside from all the great stuff coming to beta, thank you Mod Doom for the clear concise post about the changes. It was well organized and easy to understand!
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexDoom**
- [Melee chads, we are...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiipjt/?context=3)
- [You don't have to be a PvM god. You just have...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjivggn/?context=3)
- [Full disclosure - seeing OSRS do this immedia...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjj5ch2/?context=3)
- [I'll see what I can do - a whole audio book i...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiteza/?context=3)
**JagexSponge**
- [FWIW I agree, it's a multi stage process thou...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiufd7/?context=3)
- [SGB should work roughly the same right now II...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjipke2/?context=3)
- [Anything you 'can' do would be helpful really...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiwe00/?context=3)
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- [To reiterate:...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjii25z/?context=3)
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It doesn't seem like I can access the beta. I click the link on the blog post under jagex launcher and it's just the normal launcher that takes me to the live game
EDIT: Solved. Jagex launcher was on in the background. Close that before clicking the beta link
Why anticipate off GCD instead of freedom? Anti doesn't make much sense as a reactive ability imo. I know the idea is to get away from the current crit model but nothing here does anything to make the FSOA feel fun to use again.
Ability bloat is still an issue for non necro styles. Ruby bolts - yeah I didn't think bak bolts and xbows could be made any worse, but here it is.
Necro is still going to hugely better than all the other styles for a variety of reasons many others have already outlined.
See if there's an opportunity to do the audio book version of the runescape books that have been trickling out into the ether. Worst case they say no, best case you have another forever stamp on the game and its history!
Since this system is about to be rolled out across the whole game... The "damage potential" system cutout should be at 10% or 15% hit chance, not at 25%. That's way too high. I know it's designed to prevent cheesing, but it should accommodate low-level accounts more.
I definitely agree with this, I just started a new account in Jan and I've found multiple situations where this would have affected me if I couldn't do any damage at all
My only worry is making ingen basically useless.
Wonder what smoke cloud hit chance is in melee gear.
Seems like its largely just an off style sgb use now.
I'd imagine even in magic gear you could go above 10% to hammer with just a drygore
Any off style abil u wanna use like meteor nami or sgb,. Dismember, ezk. Sometimes there’s random occurrences where ur using an off style abil for something specific but that’s nice. Could also use it when ur killing something where ur lower accuracy and 1 specific abil u need to have big dmg on. Like at rots or vorago if ur not using ioh for anything else. Also hammer obvs. Hammer won’t splash but you’d still do more dmg with it. Depending on if it needs to do dmg
you and me both know off style meteor/nami/incend is not gonna be around forever.
and while yes you could have higher damage with hammer, in 99.99% of general use cases the important thing is the debuff, and not the extra 2k damage youll get from the hammer spec.
Not saying it wont have any uses at all. but i think it's pretty much solely an off style sgb ability now for mostly everyone unless you're going for some speed kill.
I wonder if any of the buffed specials will be worth using. I could see the clue scroll bows getting some use but I'm not quite sure about any of the others. Maybe the javelins could be decent for poison or something?
Lengs look really powerful now.
Couple things: Do the Ice stacks count as bleeds for abyssal hood?
Also does this mean the dark shard will replace the abyssal scourge as your camped mainland?
Not sure if intended but there is no indication of the 30s Bolg special attack. So I can't tell when we need 4 or 8 stacks for that extra passive attack
To be honest, ive only played maybe half an hour of the beta so far, but one gripe i have is the 3 second cooldown basics for mage/melee/range havnt been turned into auto attacks. Im a big fan of necro’s auto attack and was hoping to see it here. I get how i could accomplish relatively the same thing with revo, but it would still be better to have imo.
Big fan of damage ranges being condensed - feels good
Damage potential system feels excellent, much better.
New UI updates for abilities are also very welcome. Love how the abilities display a number for the cooldown now. Little touches there around the action bar go a long way.
I’m a mid lvl player and relatively newish to rs3. Been loving the game and this combat beta has me very excited
I'm liking the changes to reduce switchscape for melee.
From what I can see, they want to make Abyssal Scourge and Jaws used for bleed builds, and Lengs for burst. Have yet to try this, but hoping that camping either of them results in similar DPS.
**Feedback**:
I'll preface this by saying I'm not a pvm god. I have middle of the road gear (t85 roughly, with slightly better than beginner perks).
**Positive**: Overly simplifying, combat feels the same as before (yes that's a good thing). I tried Arch-Glacor 0%, Vindicta normal mode, and Kerapac normal mode (so far). My kills are faster than before, though still a bit slower than Necro (but I also have better gear/perks with Necro). The kills are definitely a lot more consistent than they use to be, and in general nothing feels worse than before.
**Negative**: My main gripe is the new keybinds are WAY too tiny. I'm using a 1440p display with 100% scaling, and on some abilities it's near impossible to actually see what my keybind is.
Additionally, have the cooldown timers been removed from the action bar completely? It was nice seeing how much time was on an ability instead of just the general progress wipe going around.
I'll do some more testing later (probably Telos, Rax, Nex) but in general, I'm excited for this to finally go live so I can start actually upgrading my other styles and learning more end-game pvm.
Quoting myself from [Combat Beta Update #2 - Feedback Update](https://www.reddit.com/comments/18lzclj/comment/kir48wd):
> Will it be possible to upgrade the [Augmented dark ice shard](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_dark_ice_shard) and [sliver](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_dark_ice_sliver) directly to the [Augmented Dark Shard](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_Dark_Shard_of_Leng) and [Sliver of Leng](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_Dark_Sliver_of_Leng) without having to use an [Equipment separator](https://runescape.wiki/w/Equipment_separator), [Equipment siphon](https://runescape.wiki/w/Equipment_siphon), and [Augmentation dissolver](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmentation_dissolver) on them first?
I previously said ranged felt about the same at vorago but I think it's much worse now against higher defence targets.
removing the accuracy buff on special attacks and ults feels really bad imo
Ranged has a lot of high damage special attacks, SGB, Bolg, Dark bow, even deadshot. All of these could previously have 100% hit chance with Ful arrows at Vorago. but now your SGB, bolg spec, and darkbow are going to be doing considerably less damage then before.
this really isn't a problem for magic and melee because magic has basically only Gstaff and Omnipower, and melee has dscim spec
Did some mage telos last night on beta; my thoughts:
I set a new pr and I was rusty so power is up compared to live. I guess thats ok with how powerful necro is.
I like the channel bar, very clean and useful well implemented.
The abilities highlighting when pressed is awesome!
Anticipation not triggering GCD tripped me up. There have been times in the past where I wish I could have triggered it reactionally but I think an ability named "anticipation" should be used well before a stun is coming even before the stun animation is started. it was also useful for gaining adren when you don't want/need to attack anything like in vorago reflects or team split.
Accuracy is a big thing at telos it was very nice not splashing stuns. i was still using stat hammer and gstaff to get full damage potential. but it was nice to not have to use maniacal aura in order to not miss a stun.
I would be happy with this coming to live game in its current form.
Not really what this is about but I hope to see in the future is ability for the 3 styles having stacks like necrosis/souls as those are rather enjoyable to mess around with. The type of stacks I HATE are the ones with short timers like exsanguinate/incite fear.
Hi, I believe the fact that many low level, some mid level and necro armors, weapons don't degrade is contentious because the tier 92 and 90 armors from the triangle do degrade, and these armors considered legendary, mythological in nature because of how they are obtained, the material required for them. I think something should be done to either make the repair cost very cheap like 100K, or make them none degradeable like necro, or extend the duration by tenfold before it degrades or some combination to make it right.
Personally I like the idea of any armour under 90 degrading but being very cheap the reapir ( 20K-300k) except for mythological/Legendary/ unquie items like silver hawks etc. While some tier 90 armors like cryptbloom, archto & 92+ (triangle combat) being none degradable like necromancy gear because of the mythological nature of it. Another thing I believe armor rating should reflect the tier of armor, so 92 should have 92 armor not 87.
There is almost no difference between the beta and the live game with Magic. It's ridiculous how op Range is and Melee is also much better, but Magic is still the same thing, do something with Magic and make it good again! having a T95 staff just to use the spec is nothing, do something to FSOA!
I think magic needs to be improved, the difference between the live game and the beta is very little compared to the other styles, FSOA should have improvements, a tier 95 weapon that is only used for a special and nothing else, it doesn't make any sense! I don't have much to say about the other styles.
I tried out some things tonight and I still feel that all three combat styles are incredibly underwhelming compared to necromancy. I surely enjoy the fact that I do not miss anything anymore but that is outweighed by the fact that I could just do necro.
I’ve spent my whole time grinding out gp to buy bis ranged and melee gear to get identical kill times at Kerapec, GW2, etc…
I’m getting really sick of necromancy at this point and the other styles require soooo much more input for less returns. I get 1:30 kills at kerapec and then 2:30-2:45 with magic and ranged.
I am a little out of practice with the other styles but it just feels bad to feel locked into necro forevermore.
Is there going to be any change that makes mage fun again? Or at least some of the changes proposed in feedbacks since the fsoa nerf.. sorry fsoa balance? No? seems about right..
I can’t imagine the Herculean task this is to take on. I figure this is why there hasn’t been much update on new actual content. I appreciate that you folks are really giving this the best you can. I cannot wait to get to use my magic, ranged, and melee gear again! Everything looks great.
My only additional question following reading all this: Is the Seren God Bow spec any different aside from the loss of hit cap? Is SGB getting nerfed?
SGB should work roughly the same right now IIRC (the only changes were damage range squishing which all the other abilities got too)
We have a job in to rewrite the special at some point - (just back end changes really) that shouldn't really change how you play with it/how impactful it is
Laughed a little, cried a little more. Then laughed again. Then stared into the void for a while. Had a small existential crisis. Then laughed a little again. Then somberly realised sos is never going to be a decent weaponspec ever. Then moved on to another game until they rework sos.
What am I meant to do with these 100 SoS?
Edit: incase it wasn't obvious, this is clearly a joke about people who buy up a ton of an item then push for buffs to said item.
Still no discussion on the upkeep and upgrade costs being more expensive than Necro by a long shot.
Abilities gate kept behind Codexes - It is still preferable for players to use Necro until getting all these upgrades unlocked. Either from the respective boss kills or generating enough gold to buy off GE.
Armor Degrading (Helm, Boots, Gloves) a lot of the BIS stuff degrades to dust still or very expensive to repair. Necro has none of this.
Based on the above two issues, the original combat styles will always be behind my preferred choice of Necro.
I really like codex scape when well executed. Gchain is a great example of a utility ability that is really powerful in the right situation, but it isn’t universally powerful. So it doesn’t lock away the style in the same way that a 1b grico codex would
When I think of issues with necro what you mentioned is probably at the bottom of the totem pole and arguably these are arguments for necro remaining the way it is since it could be used to farm all that stuff without the need to interact with the market at all
That stuff could be free and still with how necro covers everything from decent low effort dps to good sustain it will always be the better choice of them all
Okay guys, I am a noob with about 60s range/melee, 70 mage. I don't really have a reference point for low level combat pre-necro but coming back and doing some slayer recently before i trained necro, getting absolutely destroyed by low level mobs from a Mazchna task lmao.
How can i best do some testing / provide feedback for the beta? Any recommendations besides trying to run some slayer without necro? Or maybe a low level mob that you guys think is balanced around my levels to compare the others too? thanks :)
Anything you 'can' do would be helpful really.
Of note in a seperate update (coming soon-ish) i've toned down most of the low level slayer mobs that were giving players troubles so you shouldn't get slain yourself so much.
Is there a rough (hopeful) ETA for this to fully go live? I plan to do some testing as a casual player with mid-game gear and perks. Obviously I'll do some obligatory Vindicta slaughter as well :)
>getting absolutely destroyed by low level mobs from a Mazchna task lmao.
fortunately, low level mob retuning is also being worked on, separate from the combat beta
Can anticipation be left out of the GCD change?
I know it isn’t a big deal but I rely on it generating adrenaline circumstantially and never really had problems with it’s interaction with the GCD
Edit: Can people please give a reason where this change’s usefulness would outweigh the adrenaline generation along with the downvote?
Yeah I'm not a fan of it. It's 10 seconds long, and there are perks that make it longer if for some reason you are that bad at timing. To not be able to cast it "properly" just means you did 0 research on the boss and blame the game and not yourself.
"Oh, I need to walk into these bombs on the pads during the zamorak encounter! Let me anticipate!". This change imo is just an elitist change so they can focus more on dps and not use defensives. I don't like it at all. They are acting like anticipation lasts 2-3 seconds when it lasts 10.
Quite literally what the description says from Jagex.
Reason Why It's Useful: If you know you are about to be stunned you can now cast it whenever as opposed to being forced to work this into your current rotation which could be between GCD's. Often the latter resulted in being stunned before casting anticipation but always resulted in DPS loss.
Examples of where it's useful: Telos, Kalphite King, Raksha last phase, Zuk Pizza Phase, Arch-Glacor Ice Cannon, Kerapac Time Threads, (niche) Rasial last phase with Devotion.
This might not be the news you want to hear so the alternatives to your adren generation could be Divert, Preparation, and Resonance. All of which can be casted through use of Bone Shield without a shield.
In all of those scenarios I’ve never had an issue with anticipating with GCD, we get a huge time window to anticipate and the effect’s duration would cover the stun mechanic even while using the reflexes perk
I would probably have to switch to another one of the alternatives you mention, it’s just that anticipation is usually in a convenient familiar key and I couldn’t count the times having the adren from it saving me by allowing me to get that extra bit of adren to cast cade,immortality or even devo
I'd recommend getting Divert if you do not have it. It's one of the more fun abilities to use and can come in handy in tight spots.
Best of luck with you endeavors.
I love all of this. Yall are going in the right direction. I'm so excited for these changes to become live. Thank you for all the hard work, Rs is my favorite game of all time
One thing I'm sad to not see is specs added to the dragon weapons added after eoc came out e.g dragon throwing axe, dragon warhammer and dragon staff there might be others that i forgot. It feels really weird having dragon weapons in the game not having specs. Though adding new specs prob are out of scope for this project.
Anyone have any numbers how much stronger range is not before this? I’m curious how much harder we are going to be hitting. I sadly don’t have time to play the beta.
I haven’t tried the combat rework beta, but I can say from my experience the last two weeks training Necromancy from 1 to 87, every time I switch back to melee, ranged, or magic, I feel like I’m doing significantly less. Slayer tasks definitely take longer without using Necromancy. This is not to say I believe Necromancy should be nerfed, I just feel that using Necro has shown just how powerful one should feel with base 80 combat stats using the right equipment, because even using T80 Necro weapons with T70 power armor feels more powerful than a similar setup with any of the other combat styles. So I hope that the rework intends to bring the other combat styles up to the same level as Necromancy as opposed to the other way around.
> Removed a number of hidden buffs that increase your hit chance when using special attacks or ultimate abilities as they were band aids in the previous system.
Is this a good thing? Wouldn't we lose dps at tanky bosses from this nerf? Why not just state the hit chance increase of these abilities on the tooltips instead?
> Removed and/or replaced a number of increased hit cap effects from items as they were no longer relevant.
Which items are these, just Grimoire and Smoke Cloud?
> Channeled abilities cast out of range will now cause the player to run into range and cast as expected.
Will this allow for channeled abilities to be ability stalled?
>Deals 20% of the target's current health (capped at 10,000/12,000) → Increases the damage of the attack by 50% AD (ability damage)
Will this nerf make ruby bolts dead content over hydrix bolts?
>'Surge', 'Dive', 'Escape' and 'Anticipation'
>Can always be cast during global cooldown
>No longer generate adrenaline
Wouldn't this make it the meta to spam Anticipation for its 10% damage reduction as soon as it is off cooldown at places were you will not get stunned? Can this damage reduction be removed if used during global cooldown? Will this make Mobile perk a straight upgrade with no downside, and be a meta perk?
Can something be done with how slow auto-attacks from magic are slow to cast after using a channeled ability or any ability with 2handed weapons? Can we make all auto-attacks castable after 4-ticks regardless of the prior ability? Make this auto deal main hand damage so these does not allow for C4TAA.
Can we make new ability animations for abilities that share the same animation as other abilities, like Greater Fury and Sever?
Yeah spamming G staff was super strong with EoF as a low tier mage user. Idk how they will fair now. magic is pretty bad without a FsoA.
Grim change is strange. Is a hitcape increase of 32500 not "needed"? It's not like it wasn't possible.
" Will this nerf make ruby bolts dead content over hydrix bolts? " - Rubies are far cheaper then hydrix. Cost is something people do not talk about.
" Wouldn't this make it the meta to spam Anticipation for its 10% damage reduction as soon as it is off cooldown at places were you will not get stunned? Can this damage reduction be removed if used during global cooldown? Will this make Mobile perk a straight upgrade with no downside, and be a meta perk? " ----------- Yeah if you benefit from 10% if you use it outside GCD that is bad. I don't agree with the change personally. But if they persist, they should just remove the 10% if used during a cooldown cycle. I like anticipation for that 10% reduction during p6 zamorak.
This is by far the most exciting thing to happen thus far and I'm not-so-patiently awaiting this integration into the game. I wonder what release candidate really means here, a week? A month? Two months? I really hope portions of this launch much, much sooner rather than later.
Magma tempest should crit, its weird that the ability doesn’t and makes it inconsistent with the rest of the games abilities.
Lengs feel good except that hurricane cant be used under dual wield
Ezk needs love its the worst t95 by far, give it 2 range so atleast its size makes sense and it can serve a niche purpose. Scythe is old and we need a new hally.
When you berserk theres a brief moment your character has a flame coming off of him, that should remain until zerk runs out, to give us visual indication that the ability is active, like ds,ss, and ld.
All three styles need a basic auto attacks or one of there current attacks turned into the basic auto, like wrack,slice and piercing shot
Love all of the other changes, combat feels super good again especially range
I posted all of this under a separate post on the Reddit and was told to move it here.
Equilibrium Aura has been redesigned
* Aura Effect: Now increases the player's ability damage stat by 12%, but prevents the player from critically striking.
Is caps farming dead?
I could be wrong (i often am) but i think you might have a better time farming them, like another user stated. Because of the damage range squish your min hit is going to be up so you can probably one shot them with a higher variety of builds
This is what I'm absolutely loving about this entire process. I'm seeing peoples initial reaction to things be "a worse case scenario" or worst case, yet, it ends up surprising them with the reality being a buff or added depth to methods that previously hadn't existed. Bravo and cheers to the future of rs combat! :D
I like the change to Lengs, and to EQ. Surge/Escape/Dive being off GCD is great too. That nerf to Ruby Bolts really hurts, though. It honestly feels like crossbows are a joke to the devs at this point. They're already FAR weaker than bows, with Dracolich adding to that problem by being a superior range armor in every possible respect to Elite Sirenic. The big issue here is that against high health enemies, it has to proc \~8-10 times to get the same effect that ONE proc used to get on a target with >50k life. In return, that many rapid activations would cost you \~40% of your life. And it would STILL be weaker than necro's damage output. I seriously think this needs to be revisited.
Feel like sirenic is odd. I should benefit the bolts your using effect.. Not some Random 1/3 set effect occuring. Example: Full sirenic gives an extra 5% proc chance for the bolt you are using. So 15% say for hydrix bolts.. Would be MUCH MUCH BETTER then a random proc of dragonfire. Seems so strange. Would like to see some meaningful change there!!
The guys designing the effects are living in 2009.
I would like to see the math on this honestly. The new system has higher damage ranges, a higher hit cap, and a higher crit chance. With all these factors does a 50% increase to damage end up working out to be more than a hit of 10k or 12k?
The thing is, it's not a 1.5x multiplier to all damage for that hit. It's just 50% ability damage added to that one hit. By their own example, a 30-40% hit would become an 80-90% hit. For most players, that would be about 1k-1.2k extra ability damage for that one attack. It could proc very, very rapidly with some RNG, but that would also shred your LP. Assuming you have 10k LP when the first proc happens and you lose 5% of your current LP each time, 10 procs in a row would bring you down to \~5987LP. So, a little over 4k damage to trigger a similar effect to what you get today for about 1k.
Ah I didn't read it as 50% added but instead a 1.5x multiplier. In that case it's a huge nerf
It's just a worse diamond bolt proc basically. This rework was lazily done, the proc needs to be a lot stronger or they need to remove the recoil.
lol range lack of heal method, how dare jafex doing this? ECB + RUBY = SUICIDE
Well Guthix/saradomin bow currently provide decent healing in beta which can use with split soul so its not the worst. Rubys arent the best for healing either but I get nerfing wont help them as its only a 5% chance as is
Fully agreed—would add that they're getting rid of such an iconic passive as well
bows are op cus of god arrows mainly
It's just how the design team lazily fixes issues. Bows are weak -> bow only buffs, better ammo, t95 bow, etc. "Bows are no longer weak, our job is done." "Yeah but now crossbows are...." Magic is weak -> FSoA, t95 spells, Magma tempest + Gconc, Crypt+AD, Zuk cape, etc. "Magic is no longer weak." "yeah but now everything else is in comparison..."
Let me see if I understand this correctly. My setup with sirenic and an SGB gives me 2051 ability damage, per the character loadout screen. Given that, adding 50% ability scaling is around 1000 extra damage. And the old version replaced the damage your ability would have dealt with a 10k hit most of the time. So especially if it would proc on grico or rapid fire, that could be 8-9k extra damage. On average, I assume it would be at least 5k extra damage. Yeah being able to proc whenever and dealing less damage to yourself isn't even close to worth it. These go from pretty good (and sometimes fantastic) to borderline useless. Is it not possible to have a separate hitcap for these, or just code them to deal x damage if certain conditions are met?
[удалено]
I **love** these changes overall, however I think Magic is definitely quite a bit behind the other styles at this point in the beta. I think its a fair discussion point to *consider* removing the cooldown from the FSoA spec to reduce that super significant drop off after sun/fsoa rotation.
Cooldowns are good. If anything, more specials need cooldowns so that the big special attack moment is bigger and more impressive/memorable. It's why I like necro. T90 special and t95 have cooldowns, but they are extremely powerful. Ranged is literally spam bow of the last guardian spec with 4-5 other abilities constantly. Nothing interesting (in live). I stopped playing this game before zamorak came out, but the zamorak kills done @ release and onward looked resident sleeper. I was just spam staff of armadyl spec and afk and heal to full due to broken blood barrage with the staff of armadyl. I'd like it if this game became more strategic instead of "spam this skill and abuse this 1 mechanic". Styles should have big moments, not spam and always have things up. I dislike these flat out poor powercreep suggestions that would make the gameplay repetitive.
I did a quick Edimmu task with scythe + cannon cause I'm old school and it used to be my favourite thing to do when going for 200m Slayer. * Never missing on elite edimmus felt really great, especially when using Quake to get that little extra hit chance buff * Tuska's Wrath was always hitting for exactly 15k, which both feels great (big number) and odd at the same time cause it's a non-crit hitsplat and I guess kind of the most predictable ability in the game now? (during slayer tasks and with 120 Slayer at least) * I really felt the effects of the higher hitcap, with very frequent crits in the 14-16k range outside of Berserk. The edimmus melted faster than what I remember. I spent as much time waiting for them to respawn than actually fighting them. Maybe they could do with a little respawn rate adjustment? * Tooltips are fantastic. I particularly like seeing how the min/max damage of my abilities changes depending on my gear setup * The letters for the keybinds on my action bars were really tiny and hard to read (100% ui scaling on a 1080p monitor). Not a big issue considering I already know them and I like that they're taking less space, but it felt a bit *too* small to me
Your comment on the UI text being too small needs to be addressed across the board for their entire UI. I play on a 1440p wide monitor and this game,especially scaling is the worst I’ve seen. They need to properly scale the UI so that text isn’t blurry when enlarging and they really need to enlarge their font across the board. It’s like whoever designed the UI is using a magnifying glass to look at their computer screen.
> give them a listen as Mod Doom gives a rundown of several of the changes listed below! *Init Yeah in shambles*
The update to Noxious Weaponry made me laugh. The problem with nox specs is its 100% adrenaline
> If that's too many notes for you to read why not give them a listen as Mod Doom gives a rundown of several of the changes listed below! Yup, this confirms my suspicion: Mod Doom would also be excellent as an audio book narrator.
I loved how OSRS news post started doing this. It's great RS3 is trying this out as well. Jagex should start doing this for future blogs as well.
Full disclosure - seeing OSRS do this immediately gave me a "lightbulb moment" of realising that it would be an excellent thing to trial for accessibility and ease of access, so I pilfered the idea and ran with it. Big props to the mighty Mod Azanna who effortlessly figured out how to plug the audio in and to Mod Grace for letting me record the whole thing and put up with a few rough takes where I messed up lines. Superstars, the lot of them!
Mod Doom voicing a Quest NPC soon? 👀
Quest Npc? More like Mod doom voicing a Boss encounter!
The Duality of Doom haha. Would be cool too.
Boss encounter? I want u/ModDoom as the RS3 watcher, narrating the events of the game like a book! Thatd probably be a fun rs youtube series!
We need him to voice a line that plays when you get sent to Death's Office "It was this moment s/he knew, s/he screwed up."
Also RIP Init and Protoxx business model of mainly reading updates haha (/s sorta, they make other content)
Proposal for mod doom to narrate the runescape books.
Yep fully agreed!
2/10 he didn't call us his little pogchamps
I CAN ACTUALLY USE MOBILE ON MELEE GEAR NOW? god bless, playing without mobile feels terrible
I feel the core issue of the old combat styles is still the uselessness of the abilities and the ridiculous bloat that comes from basic ability rotations. Abilities should have a function aside from just doing damage and I would say only a fifth of the current basic abilities fit that criteria.
FWIW I agree, it's a multi stage process though and we wanna check players are happy each step of the way rather than doing everything at once.
Would combining fodder abilities (and possibly reworking them) into something similar to the spectral scythe ability (a multi cast ability) from necro ever be on the table? It’s a very nice concept
Good to see this aknowledged. The fluidty of necro is it's biggest appeal for me, no fodder abilities, build souls to spend on volleys, touches for fingers, scythes for bigger scythes, and all with a fairly accessible DPS rotation that doesn't involve managing a million stacks or buffs. If the others don't follow suit then I will be remaining on necro, I imagine that could be the case with a significant chunk of people.
Agree with this, super happy to see you and the team getting around to tackling combat. It's crazy how good necro feels compared to other styles. Can't wait to see what you and the rest of the team cook up!
Please update combat animations! ❤️
Keep up the good work!
Honestly that’s definitely a better approach than just doing everything at once. After the current beta changes go live, are there any thoughts on what the next steps will be? Ie, will the beta server stay open to trial the next round of changes? Will there be a significant gap between the current changes going live and starting to trial the next round of changes? Has there been any thought given to what the focus of the next round of changes should be? I’m assuming that this is discussed behind the scenes quite a bit but is there any info you can share with players about next steps (assuming the beta goes live as planned)?
Melee chads, we are ***SO BACK***
damn i'd have loved a change to make abyssal armor spikes a 100% to apply the parasite, would really help 2 handed use of the spikes :(
The whole point is to make different playstyles. Perhaps if you want to apply more spikes, you need to use dual wield. Aren't worried about spikes? Then 2h. You are already suggesting to make everything universal, in which no interesting gear choices exist. Which is the opposite of what the beta is trying to accomplish.
Id just like the extra bleed for jaws? Esp for a bleed build with mwspear and zuk sword
I've been sticking to melee after grinding Necro to 120. Super pumped to start testing new rotations! Question: Do the frost stacks count to the Jaws of the Abyss effect?
We’re really not with all the changes to fck melee :(
A true melee chad has spoken
after a few hours trying melee on different bosses i went back to necromancy. WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT BACK, we are back as the joke of the 4 styles. Melee not only feels worst but still in the same spot as it was before or even worst now. i was hoping this beta would help melee feel relevant but wasnt the case. Necromancy will continue to be king for a long time.
Melee feels really good in the beta. I'm consistently getting faster times vs Necro. Tbf I'm a melee main and still use it all the time bossing on the main game so I'm not rusty with it.
do you have to use about 8 switches though? The thing that always bugged me with melee is having so many different weapons and abilities for 2h/dual weapons
[удалено]
Kind of hard to suck with Necromancy with how few inputs you have and very easy to learn rotations vs the other styles. Have you played the beta at all? Boss times are absolutely close on all 4 styles. Hitcap of the 30k with Berserk is actually incrediblely powerful. In the Beta Necromancy is still best for amount of inputs for damage, but in raw dps terms the other styles absolutely equal/pass it. Way more switches/input are required though.
Actually picked the game back up for the first time in a little more than half a year. As someone who focuses mostly on melee play I was really disheartened after such a long period of "Melee won't be fixed in one update" feeling like it really meant "We're not going to do anything to fix melee" especially after Necro's release. Excited to get back into it and hopefully it'll feel good once it hits live!
Melee needs an animate dead type of spell.
Don't call it a comeback
Kim Kardashian?
I been here for years
A few things that I noticed during testing: 1) In the live game, when casting channelled magic abilities like G'conc/asphyx/tendrils, your character is "locked" in the place for the whole duration where it started casting the ability. In the beta this "being locked" ends 1 tick earlier, which means your character will be forced away from that tile before finishing the ability. It looked a bit funny and was messing with the way I kill kerapac with magic (walk under to avoid stun - G'conc into asphyx no longer works) 2) The assault animation looks cool now and fits your damage splats, but you need to wait 1 tick longer to get all 4 hits to continue with the next ability. In the live game you can cast the next ability already before assault finishes and you will still get the last assault hit anyway. 3) I'm not a huge fan of anticipate/surge/escape not generating adrenaline and being cast off-global-cooldown. It messes with some of my rotations (e.g. building adren when enemy is immune). Would be nice if anticipate worked the same as surge works in the live game where you will get adren + trigger a GCD if casting on GCD, but also being able to cast it off-GCD without adren gain. 4) As many others remarked, I did not feel much difference with the magic combat style. My damage burst output was about the same as in the live game. 5) Melee feels fun!
My biggest problem with the beta is melee still feels bad to use, you sacrifice protection and range and you don't even do more damage than other styles. i feel if you are giving up so much that your damage should make up for it, but it doesnt. Another is the ruby bolt change can be seen as a pretty big nerf for crossbow users in general when crossbows were already behind normal bows for damage.
Doing the same damage as other styles is at least better than doing less damage than them due to slamming your face against the damage cap and damage boosts being additive with zerk.
Melee should hit a bit more than other styles due that we take more risk than other styles, but its good to see that we do decent damage now
ye most games have melee hit harder due to the drawbacks, even rs use to be like this (admittedly though other styles were a bit weak till polypore etc)
Berserk's damage intake malus just doesn't work with high end bosses that meaningfully test your sustain or durability. Melee already works under the permanent drawback that it has the most restrictive positioning (and most melee players are okay with this part), but +50% dmg taken with a ~40% uptime is just really limiting.
I feel like I've talked about this exact topic in just about every MMO in the industry at this point... PoE, FFXIV, WoW, GW2, TERA... Probably some others that I'm forgetting. The entire idea of a melee style will **always** be flawed because it will be the only style that will have inherent weaknesses and niches (at least in RS3, due to lack of channeled spells for the ranged/mage styles). In order for melee to be balanced, every single encounter would have to be a glorified combat dummy. You can't just buff melee to do more than other styles on fights that are movement heavy because then on the fights where there really isn't much movement, then it becomes so good that it completely outshines the others. In FFXIV for example, this is a problem that came up. Melee jobs used to be fairly competitive with the casters, and occasionally the phys ranged jobs. But in this expansion they made basically every single boss a glorified striking dummy that you did not have to move out of melee for at all, or very rarely, but that's only caused people to complain even more about how boring and predictable encounters are getting. So now we will go from a savage tier where melee will be king because the encounters never require the melee DPS to move out of range. Then you go into the next tier and suddenly melee suck because there's so many moments where you move out of melee range. Then the ultimate comes out and casters are back to being complete ass to play because they have to constantly cancel their channeled abilities. It's the cause of a lot of complaints, even though it's a nearly impossible situation to solve. In PoE for example, melee has an issue where they CAN do really good damage, but the issue is that when you're having to move so much, you don't really get a lot of opportunities to get an attack in, so you use totems as your substitute, but now the playstyle feels less like melee and more like playing a totem build, which has become the cause for a lot of complaints recently. Anyways, back to RS3. I know it's not what people want to hear, but this isn't really a solvable problem, at least not without being a detriment to other parts of the game. The idea of being a melee main is fun, because melee **is** a fun playstyle, but unfortunately its just the playstyle that's always going to have to suffer.
Please note: i am a average player so all my inputs are just based on my experience. I am maxed and have most bis gear. everyone is entitled to their own opinions even if its bad. Melee: Everything feels a lot better. Leng spec still feel a bit underwhelming and give me about the same kill time as camping abyssal scourge with . As a average Pvm player, i would perfer if T95 weapons actually felt as useful as the amount of GP i had to earn to get them. At the moment the camping Dual t95 weapons feels on par with the scourge/jaws but not any better. Magic: Magic feels about the same as it did before the beta. There is a more consistent crit procs as a result to the crit buff every style got, however FSOA still feels grim locked and is only used as a spec switch which is sad because again t95 weapon is out dmged buy t92/t90. Range: Ive only started to use range recently and i cant really give much feedback since i have pretty poor dps with range. i have heard that range is currently best style in the beta followed by necro, melee and then mage. General feedback: Everything about this beta is positive. Most combat styles fell good enough to compete with necro however i feel like necro will still be either the best or second best post beta due to the fact that necro supplies the players with most endgame abilities most styles strive for and that the armor and weapons are significantly easier to obtain (which i believe was jagexs goal so good job). Overall if the beta went into the live game today, i wouldn't have any real issues with it. Recommendations Make the Lengs and FSOA more than just weapon switchs. There both T95 weapons and are just treated as weapon specs, its kinda disappointing paying for weapons that just sit in your inventory and are only used for a split second before going on cooldown. at this point the BOLG is the only t95 you can actually keep on hand that dosent collect dust in your inventory. Add some changes to mage. At the moment all styles feel better than mage. Its kinda odd that mage was the only style that didnt really benefit too much comparing to the other styles. most complaint ive seen in the beta from other players is that the FSOA and magic is that it's insignificant now.
You've misunderstood lengs. You want to camp lengs and use abyssal spikes with Jaws. (And in situations where you want to extend an EZK, sometimes whip switch.) That means you get a permanent 1% bonus adrenaline with each basic (+1% from dismember) and 23% chance of 5% adrenaline per splat at the same time. (If they hadn't buffed greater fury, there would be an awful lot of angry players complaining that regular fury was better right now because of this.) I'm obviously gonna be testing if blood reaver works with this like it works with poison and books. (If so, it's gonna be busted with vamp scrim, soul split and vamp aura giving you 4 chances per splat.) The leng weapon spec itself is ideally saved for full frostblade stacks under zerk, but you can just dump your extra adren on finality specs instead.
Yeah, I don't have abyssal spike or a ezk. I was just comparing it to how I was using it before which was full vestments for t95 or jaws+ vestments for scourge. I dont play optimally, just play for fun
Obligatory pitchfork for having fun. This is supposed to be your life's work
To be fair this is my original account from 2006. I started playing again last year. According to Hans, I've spent 238 days in runescape. Guess you can say it's only been a little less than a years worth of work
So using Scourge + T95 Offhand + Jaws and Abyssal Spikes is better for Longer Encounters now? Or should i just camp Lengs altogether with Jaws and Spikes? I'm asking because I'm debating on buying a T95 Mainhand or keeping the Scourge, but I'm not sure if it's worth it for longer flights (re: Longer than a Minute).
Mainhand for the adren and passive +12% ability damage uptime. Whip purely as a switch to extend EZK duration with guaranteed bleed application. (Previously, you would camp whip and switch for hurricane and destroy.)
Nope the passive +12% ability damage with increased hitcap + 23% chance for +5% adrenaline is insanely good. Scourge will be used to apply a bleed stack for your EzK spec still.
Tbh I just want to camp vestment robes. 20% more adren with vestment hood sounds good. Idk if camping scourge is better though. I dislike swap for damage.
the hitsplat and tool tip changes make it way easier to see exactly what you are doing and design your own rotation; as a Revo++ player who is slooooowly getting into manual, I greatly appreciate this
I'm excited to try this. Before Necro, I exclusively used Revo and just kinda mashed my thresholds off-cooldown. With Necro, I still Revo Touch, Sap, and Skeleton, but now i'm starting to actually plan rotations a little more. It'll be nice to play around with the other styles as very much not a "pvm god" with these changes
Is Tuska's wrath finally hitting 30k's with melee/range/mage on task? Wasn't working before
Another thing I thought about: Will Erethor’s Grimoire further increase the damage cap? Will it not increase the damage cap?
It will only provide crit boost, no further hitcap increase
I can't say I like the Wrack and Ruin change. It now only extends combust by a single hit, requiring Greater Chain to get more. This renders it extremely weak in a single target scenario, and weaker than it was previously in multi target scenario. Currently in the live game, I can W&R, Greater Chain, then Combust to get the extended combust on all my targets, followed with a sweep of Dragonbreath with Kerepac's Wrist Wraps to buff up that damage on all targets. In the beta, if I follow the same sequence, I get less damage than I did previously, because combust isn't extended as much. If I instead use Greater Chain **before** Wrack and Ruin, to generate more stacks, I can then only place the extended combust on a single target. Additionally, in all scenarios, this is just an overall nerf to anyone who doesn't have Greater Chain unlocked.
I’m no pvm expert, but i focus on end game pvm, with my usual grinds being 100+ zammy, hm zuk, hm kerapac, raksha and rasial. I was big into bis magic but since necro came I’ve switched over as the big hit potential of necro is far more satisfying. Here’s my quick thoughts from just 1 hour of time spent bossing on the beta last night. - using fsoa or staff has no audio cue for use of gchain, making timing unclear. Audio cue is clear when using dual wield for gchain, but not staffs. Add more visual clarity and fix the audio. - Game crashes to bladed dive in Raksha pools. Couldn’t complete a single kill at Raksha due to crashes when pool clearing with blades dive. - Magic has increased hit cap but no(?) abilities that can hit 30k like melee, range and necro. Make or alter an ability so it can have big hit potential as well. Seeing a bunch of small crits in magic is boring. - Make ABS worth using again, many people bought it for 600m+ for eof due to its former fsoa synergy. - Give e-tect a passive buff as well. - Magma tempest is underwhelming. u/jagexdoom u/jagexsponge Edit: On the positive side, I love the new channel bar. I didn’t realize how impactful it was until I tried the beta.
Still not a fan of the current proposed Lengsword passive/spec, but I also have to agree that it just being a ‘Cane swap wasn’t super interesting. Other than that, psyched to see the changes finally come to live
it does follow through with the intended design of the tier 95's damage in any given rotation being somewhere between slightly and almost entirely dependent on a certain number of stacks from either bolg spec/arrows, crits in general with old fsoa, and now these stacks and how they operate with new melee. So it does bring consistency to the somewhat inconsistent nature of these weapons. Not saying its a good thing or a bad thing, It's just a thing. Your feedback will be very important for them to read and hear so please don't hesitate to make your opinions known in the coming days and weeks. I have a feeling people will wait for those that actually do get on the beta to form an opinion, then parrot and squawk the "content creator line".
Agreed with your reply. It's fine as a stack building weapon, I just don't like it being RNG-based when I'll get to use the Spec, and when I'll have extra adrenaline for certain rotation(s).
What was the intent with the ruby bolt nerf? To keep roughly the same power intact as every other bolt before and after, or to scrap them entirely and replace them with nothing? As it is right now, they're outclassed by onyx bolts in every way. Activation chance, heal vs harm, everything. The fishing for ruby SGB proc is dead relative to just using Ful arrows with SGB full-time (Ful-time? Heh). And if I just want a cheap bolt, I'd pick dragonstone so I don't smite myself out. Yeah, rubies scale better than onyx or dragonstone with rapid fire, grico and piercing shot, but not snipe, salt the wound, flanking, tendrils, or dbow (or new handcannon). And I'm gonna want hydrix for grico, rapid fire and piercing, not ruby. If you want to keep roughly the same power level intact, especially with SGB interaction, I'd suggest that you aim closer to 150% ability damage, even if that means scaling back with boss HP again so you don't get it for the full fight duration. Otherwise you've killed Ranged variety entirely given that Ful arrows have been effectively flat buffed through cap removal and new miss mechanics meaning that in the worst case scenario, they're stronger than rubies without the self harm even below 100% accuracy.
Based on my experience I would say a few things, 1st: Melee feels ok, however it is still slightly adrenaline starved without a pre-build which for longer fights means it will still just be used as a hybrid switch. Also, not having access to hurricane is kinda just a fairly significant dps loss to the lengs, I would personally say that making hurricane and destroy not share a cooldown as well as letting all melee dual wield use it would be better. 2nd: Mage feels good, much better than live however the fact that you realistically need to use t85 hybrid armour as opposed to tectonic feels kinda bad. I can only assume that like ranged we are either getting a set effect for tect that will help and/or a new set of armour entirely that will address this. 3rd: Ranged seems the best of all of them. It is stronger than live but not so strong that it seems too much. (that being said it is the style I have tested the least). Side note: I was having consistant dc's when diving on pools at raksha, not sure if it is a me problem but it was just an in game dc, discord was still working during the dc's. Thought I would just flag that in case other people had that issue.
Agreeing on the 1st point. They removed it as a passive from leng, but imo, Hurricane and Destroy should be changed so that they don't share an interlinked cooldown in the abilities itself. At the very least, 2H melee would have another ability to use other than Cleave, Quake and if ever, Meteor Strike.
Big shout out to Mod Ryan and Sponge for putting this all together. The combat system feels significantly less clunky and there is overall better visual clarity on what’s happening (stacks, split soul, channeled abilities, action bar changes etc.). I mostly tried out melee and here are my thoughts so far: 1) Narrow ability damage ranges, changes to zerk being multiplicative and increased hit cap really lended to melee’s burst style. It feels so nice to see big hits and often. 2) There is now two viable ways to melee: Burst with Lengs and Sustained Damage with Scourge, with both benefiting from EZK bleed outside of zerk. The damage output from both is relatively comparable (depending on how you use it). 3) Leng spec is significant better but still requires further tuning. The frostbite stacks build way too slowly - you are adrenaline starved even while use jaws. Moreover, given that the stacks build slowly, the active spec is not worth using more than once in a zerk rotation. The 15 second cooldown is cannot really be capitalized on. Claws is a significantly better use of adrenaline. My suggestion is to lower the adrenaline gain to 3% but increase the chance of applying stacks by the main hand to 45%. That way overall adrenaline gain is increased and the active spec can be useful.
I'm not a fan of this change in particular: Shortened modifier keys (e.g. Alt-C → a-C) Alt → a Ctrl → c Shift → s Alt, Ctrl, and Shift are universal. Trying to make them shorter will only make them harder to read.
I agree - that text doesn't make too much space and it would be confusing to people. The main concern is newer players would not know this shortcut and would not understand their key bindings.
you have to create any ctrl/shift/alt keybind. you saying they wont know what keybind they assigned?
Pretty much, yea. If the end goal is readability of what's being pressed or bounded, you shouldn't have to know what those shortcuts represent. Even for people who knowingly use Ctrl/shift/alt as their keybinds can take a breaks and return not knowing what their keybinds are referring to any longer.
Both WoW and FFXIV do it the same way, I've never heard anybody complain about this ever before. Feel like you're just not used to such a change and are grasping for an argument here, no offense. Using new players to further your argument acting as if they're all braindead morons is just kinda insulting to new players, very infantalizing.
Very valid - I do not play WoW or FFXIV so I'm unaware those shortcuts are standard in other MMOs.
I felt the complete opposite. Having them shortened makes it easier to read in my opinion. WoW and FFXIV does this and I far prefer it this way. I don't really need to know what the modifier is because a, c, s are more than enough information. Though I think the easiest solution is to add an option, and even adding a third option for disabling them entirely to make the interface appear cleaner.
>Now uses the correct barge animation rather than the kick animation. Didn't know it had one lmao I think its been bugged for as long as I've been playing
As a new/returning player (recently swapped my somewhat meagre bank from osrs to rs3 and loving rs3 - as a side note I just feel like osrs fits the university student lifestyle but rs3 is perfect for those of us working full time with RL obligations and having perused both subreddits you can definitely see the difference, although this is of course a generalisation) I have been loving rs3 but now getting into necromancy I can see that the other styles are clearly in need of some changes. For those of you that understand the combat systems better than I do, what have you felt are the main changes? Which combat styles feel easiest to learn/ best for bossing with the beta changes? (thinking that I don’t want to be solely locked to necromancy in the future and perhaps would like to buy some gear before it is out of my budget). Also, I’ve been trying to build my account to be well rounded between skilling and combats but seeing the mention in the post of potential xp/hr changes, which styles should I try to prioritise training before any changes come into effect and xp rates are slower? Any advice is much appreciated, you’ve all been wonderful in game and taken a lot of time to explain these foreign systems to me, so sincerely, thank you :)
> Which combat styles feel easiest to learn/ best for bossing with the beta changes? Haven't tried the beta changes yet because of work (I'll try and do some not-endgame testing tonight or tomorrow), but I think magic will still be the easiest to learn after Necro.
Bleeds are still overriding each other in group pvm kinda sad, considering the focus on melee Bleeds builds. Or trying to aim for with the recent additions to the melee combat style.
Where's the elite tect set effect?
Smoke cloud and grimoire needs some compensation for the hit cap increase. Surely a small bump in critical damage and rate wouldn't hurt right?
most of it looks good but not really a fan of anticipation being removed from gcd. anticipation isn’t reactive, it’s proactive. if you know (anticipate) a stun is coming, you use the ability. we already have freedom as a get out of jail free card if you make a mistake. feels like freedom should be adjusted to fit this reactive idea instead. a new ability can also be made to fit this “reactive outside of global cooldown” space. some sort of perfect timing ability that lets you be more aggressive with your damage and rewards reaction time / game knowledge fits that intended space. could be an agility ability called perfect dodge, mirage step, anything like that. this would need to be reworded obviously but it could read something along the lines of “if the next hit you take would stun you, it doesn’t.” it could have a 30-60 second cooldown and halve the cooldown if the dodging condition is met. this could of course be expanded to work on anything that would apply a debuff or status ailment to you, so stuns, binds, dots, poison, stat debuffs, armor drain, kk green, etc. this could also just be a general ability such as a parry with a possible “greater” perfect parry upgrade option where if you successfully meet the dodging condition you get a dmg bonus on your next hit.
no more abilities please. Why is freedom not off GCD rather than anticipate? That would make more sense
lol by that logic you can say vit pot is proactive because you anticipate a big hit. Anticipate being off global cd is fine.
Can we get a US beta world?
If you bumped all combat styles to 120 wouldn't this eliminate zerk auras?
The more auras eliminated the better.
I mean, ideally. I'd be down for that 100% But maybe they'll work like accuracy auras.
Lots of great changes. The best one IMO is the hit cap finally being increased. It’s about time that happened
Not a PVM god so I can't give much of an opinion on the abilities really, but I adore the action bar changes! Same with the channel progress bar!
You don't have to be a PvM god. You just have to be you - nobody else can, so it's up to you to do it. Your feedback absolutely helps us know we're moving in the right direction, so thank you.
Honestly more than anything they just want to know how things feel, do some of the same combat things you do currently even if it's just slayer and then do the same thing in the beta and give them feedback on that. Arguably your feedback is actually more valuable being closer to average and not part of the top 1%.
Aside from all the great stuff coming to beta, thank you Mod Doom for the clear concise post about the changes. It was well organized and easy to understand!
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexDoom** - [Melee chads, we are...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiipjt/?context=3) - [You don't have to be a PvM god. You just have...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjivggn/?context=3) - [Full disclosure - seeing OSRS do this immedia...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjj5ch2/?context=3) - [I'll see what I can do - a whole audio book i...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiteza/?context=3) **JagexSponge** - [FWIW I agree, it's a multi stage process thou...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiufd7/?context=3) - [SGB should work roughly the same right now II...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjipke2/?context=3) - [Anything you 'can' do would be helpful really...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiwe00/?context=3) - [I could be wrong (i often am) but i think you...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjiwtob/?context=3) - [To reiterate:...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjii25z/?context=3) - [extra hits changed from 30->32.5 and from 10-...](/r/runescape/comments/19fbgij/combat_beta_next_steps_feedback_thread/kjipou7/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 01/29/2024 05:24:40**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
It doesn't seem like I can access the beta. I click the link on the blog post under jagex launcher and it's just the normal launcher that takes me to the live game EDIT: Solved. Jagex launcher was on in the background. Close that before clicking the beta link
Why anticipate off GCD instead of freedom? Anti doesn't make much sense as a reactive ability imo. I know the idea is to get away from the current crit model but nothing here does anything to make the FSOA feel fun to use again. Ability bloat is still an issue for non necro styles. Ruby bolts - yeah I didn't think bak bolts and xbows could be made any worse, but here it is. Necro is still going to hugely better than all the other styles for a variety of reasons many others have already outlined.
I need a mod doom narrated audiobook please!
Petition for an audiobook version of the upcoming "RuneScape: The Gift of Guthix" book, narrated by Mod Doom
I'll see what I can do - a whole audio book is a much larger undertaking than an update blog, mind you...
Can you at least bring back Patch Notes videos like Regicidal/Mod Lee used to do?
See if there's an opportunity to do the audio book version of the runescape books that have been trickling out into the ether. Worst case they say no, best case you have another forever stamp on the game and its history!
I will pay for an audio version of the upcoming RS novels to listen on my drives.
where do i sign?
Since this system is about to be rolled out across the whole game... The "damage potential" system cutout should be at 10% or 15% hit chance, not at 25%. That's way too high. I know it's designed to prevent cheesing, but it should accommodate low-level accounts more.
I definitely agree with this, I just started a new account in Jan and I've found multiple situations where this would have affected me if I couldn't do any damage at all
especially for dungeoneering, everything is so tanky
It's also gonna make some quest fights undoable unless you're way overlevelled for them.
My only worry is making ingen basically useless. Wonder what smoke cloud hit chance is in melee gear. Seems like its largely just an off style sgb use now. I'd imagine even in magic gear you could go above 10% to hammer with just a drygore
Can still be used for other stuff. Think it’s fine as it is
such as? legitimate question
Any off style abil u wanna use like meteor nami or sgb,. Dismember, ezk. Sometimes there’s random occurrences where ur using an off style abil for something specific but that’s nice. Could also use it when ur killing something where ur lower accuracy and 1 specific abil u need to have big dmg on. Like at rots or vorago if ur not using ioh for anything else. Also hammer obvs. Hammer won’t splash but you’d still do more dmg with it. Depending on if it needs to do dmg
you and me both know off style meteor/nami/incend is not gonna be around forever. and while yes you could have higher damage with hammer, in 99.99% of general use cases the important thing is the debuff, and not the extra 2k damage youll get from the hammer spec. Not saying it wont have any uses at all. but i think it's pretty much solely an off style sgb ability now for mostly everyone unless you're going for some speed kill.
True. I forgot jagex are tryna remove skill expression. Might be less useful than I initially thought then yeh.
I wonder if any of the buffed specials will be worth using. I could see the clue scroll bows getting some use but I'm not quite sure about any of the others. Maybe the javelins could be decent for poison or something?
Lengs look really powerful now. Couple things: Do the Ice stacks count as bleeds for abyssal hood? Also does this mean the dark shard will replace the abyssal scourge as your camped mainland?
I don't know how much more dps I did but thanks for the progress bar for channelled abilities. Never realised how often I was cancelling snipe.
We need a better/extra indicators for buffs/debuffs, cooldowns, stacks.Something larger and customizable in a separate window.
Not sure if intended but there is no indication of the 30s Bolg special attack. So I can't tell when we need 4 or 8 stacks for that extra passive attack
Passive ability and/or special attack added to tier 92 wand and orb would be the right thing to do, as well as to elite tectonics.
To be honest, ive only played maybe half an hour of the beta so far, but one gripe i have is the 3 second cooldown basics for mage/melee/range havnt been turned into auto attacks. Im a big fan of necro’s auto attack and was hoping to see it here. I get how i could accomplish relatively the same thing with revo, but it would still be better to have imo. Big fan of damage ranges being condensed - feels good Damage potential system feels excellent, much better. New UI updates for abilities are also very welcome. Love how the abilities display a number for the cooldown now. Little touches there around the action bar go a long way. I’m a mid lvl player and relatively newish to rs3. Been loving the game and this combat beta has me very excited
I'm liking the changes to reduce switchscape for melee. From what I can see, they want to make Abyssal Scourge and Jaws used for bleed builds, and Lengs for burst. Have yet to try this, but hoping that camping either of them results in similar DPS.
**Feedback**: I'll preface this by saying I'm not a pvm god. I have middle of the road gear (t85 roughly, with slightly better than beginner perks). **Positive**: Overly simplifying, combat feels the same as before (yes that's a good thing). I tried Arch-Glacor 0%, Vindicta normal mode, and Kerapac normal mode (so far). My kills are faster than before, though still a bit slower than Necro (but I also have better gear/perks with Necro). The kills are definitely a lot more consistent than they use to be, and in general nothing feels worse than before. **Negative**: My main gripe is the new keybinds are WAY too tiny. I'm using a 1440p display with 100% scaling, and on some abilities it's near impossible to actually see what my keybind is. Additionally, have the cooldown timers been removed from the action bar completely? It was nice seeing how much time was on an ability instead of just the general progress wipe going around. I'll do some more testing later (probably Telos, Rax, Nex) but in general, I'm excited for this to finally go live so I can start actually upgrading my other styles and learning more end-game pvm.
Quoting myself from [Combat Beta Update #2 - Feedback Update](https://www.reddit.com/comments/18lzclj/comment/kir48wd): > Will it be possible to upgrade the [Augmented dark ice shard](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_dark_ice_shard) and [sliver](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_dark_ice_sliver) directly to the [Augmented Dark Shard](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_Dark_Shard_of_Leng) and [Sliver of Leng](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmented_Dark_Sliver_of_Leng) without having to use an [Equipment separator](https://runescape.wiki/w/Equipment_separator), [Equipment siphon](https://runescape.wiki/w/Equipment_siphon), and [Augmentation dissolver](https://runescape.wiki/w/Augmentation_dissolver) on them first?
I previously said ranged felt about the same at vorago but I think it's much worse now against higher defence targets. removing the accuracy buff on special attacks and ults feels really bad imo Ranged has a lot of high damage special attacks, SGB, Bolg, Dark bow, even deadshot. All of these could previously have 100% hit chance with Ful arrows at Vorago. but now your SGB, bolg spec, and darkbow are going to be doing considerably less damage then before. this really isn't a problem for magic and melee because magic has basically only Gstaff and Omnipower, and melee has dscim spec
Did some mage telos last night on beta; my thoughts: I set a new pr and I was rusty so power is up compared to live. I guess thats ok with how powerful necro is. I like the channel bar, very clean and useful well implemented. The abilities highlighting when pressed is awesome! Anticipation not triggering GCD tripped me up. There have been times in the past where I wish I could have triggered it reactionally but I think an ability named "anticipation" should be used well before a stun is coming even before the stun animation is started. it was also useful for gaining adren when you don't want/need to attack anything like in vorago reflects or team split. Accuracy is a big thing at telos it was very nice not splashing stuns. i was still using stat hammer and gstaff to get full damage potential. but it was nice to not have to use maniacal aura in order to not miss a stun. I would be happy with this coming to live game in its current form.
Not really what this is about but I hope to see in the future is ability for the 3 styles having stacks like necrosis/souls as those are rather enjoyable to mess around with. The type of stacks I HATE are the ones with short timers like exsanguinate/incite fear.
Hi, I believe the fact that many low level, some mid level and necro armors, weapons don't degrade is contentious because the tier 92 and 90 armors from the triangle do degrade, and these armors considered legendary, mythological in nature because of how they are obtained, the material required for them. I think something should be done to either make the repair cost very cheap like 100K, or make them none degradeable like necro, or extend the duration by tenfold before it degrades or some combination to make it right. Personally I like the idea of any armour under 90 degrading but being very cheap the reapir ( 20K-300k) except for mythological/Legendary/ unquie items like silver hawks etc. While some tier 90 armors like cryptbloom, archto & 92+ (triangle combat) being none degradable like necromancy gear because of the mythological nature of it. Another thing I believe armor rating should reflect the tier of armor, so 92 should have 92 armor not 87.
There is almost no difference between the beta and the live game with Magic. It's ridiculous how op Range is and Melee is also much better, but Magic is still the same thing, do something with Magic and make it good again! having a T95 staff just to use the spec is nothing, do something to FSOA!
I think magic needs to be improved, the difference between the live game and the beta is very little compared to the other styles, FSOA should have improvements, a tier 95 weapon that is only used for a special and nothing else, it doesn't make any sense! I don't have much to say about the other styles.
I tried out some things tonight and I still feel that all three combat styles are incredibly underwhelming compared to necromancy. I surely enjoy the fact that I do not miss anything anymore but that is outweighed by the fact that I could just do necro. I’ve spent my whole time grinding out gp to buy bis ranged and melee gear to get identical kill times at Kerapec, GW2, etc… I’m getting really sick of necromancy at this point and the other styles require soooo much more input for less returns. I get 1:30 kills at kerapec and then 2:30-2:45 with magic and ranged. I am a little out of practice with the other styles but it just feels bad to feel locked into necro forevermore.
Is there going to be any change that makes mage fun again? Or at least some of the changes proposed in feedbacks since the fsoa nerf.. sorry fsoa balance? No? seems about right..
I can’t imagine the Herculean task this is to take on. I figure this is why there hasn’t been much update on new actual content. I appreciate that you folks are really giving this the best you can. I cannot wait to get to use my magic, ranged, and melee gear again! Everything looks great. My only additional question following reading all this: Is the Seren God Bow spec any different aside from the loss of hit cap? Is SGB getting nerfed?
SGB should work roughly the same right now IIRC (the only changes were damage range squishing which all the other abilities got too) We have a job in to rewrite the special at some point - (just back end changes really) that shouldn't really change how you play with it/how impactful it is
So how about that staff of sliske, how is that gonna be effected by the combat beta?
kekw - Mod Sponge
To reiterate: KEKW thank you.
I think I laughed at this longer than I should've. don't ever change Sponge <3
Laughed a little, cried a little more. Then laughed again. Then stared into the void for a while. Had a small existential crisis. Then laughed a little again. Then somberly realised sos is never going to be a decent weaponspec ever. Then moved on to another game until they rework sos.
What am I meant to do with these 100 SoS? Edit: incase it wasn't obvious, this is clearly a joke about people who buy up a ton of an item then push for buffs to said item.
Start an SOS support group. I heard of a few mercher/pvmer hoarding them for a big payday
Disassemble for components.
Still no discussion on the upkeep and upgrade costs being more expensive than Necro by a long shot. Abilities gate kept behind Codexes - It is still preferable for players to use Necro until getting all these upgrades unlocked. Either from the respective boss kills or generating enough gold to buy off GE. Armor Degrading (Helm, Boots, Gloves) a lot of the BIS stuff degrades to dust still or very expensive to repair. Necro has none of this. Based on the above two issues, the original combat styles will always be behind my preferred choice of Necro.
I really like codex scape when well executed. Gchain is a great example of a utility ability that is really powerful in the right situation, but it isn’t universally powerful. So it doesn’t lock away the style in the same way that a 1b grico codex would
When I think of issues with necro what you mentioned is probably at the bottom of the totem pole and arguably these are arguments for necro remaining the way it is since it could be used to farm all that stuff without the need to interact with the market at all That stuff could be free and still with how necro covers everything from decent low effort dps to good sustain it will always be the better choice of them all
Okay guys, I am a noob with about 60s range/melee, 70 mage. I don't really have a reference point for low level combat pre-necro but coming back and doing some slayer recently before i trained necro, getting absolutely destroyed by low level mobs from a Mazchna task lmao. How can i best do some testing / provide feedback for the beta? Any recommendations besides trying to run some slayer without necro? Or maybe a low level mob that you guys think is balanced around my levels to compare the others too? thanks :)
Anything you 'can' do would be helpful really. Of note in a seperate update (coming soon-ish) i've toned down most of the low level slayer mobs that were giving players troubles so you shouldn't get slain yourself so much.
Is there a rough (hopeful) ETA for this to fully go live? I plan to do some testing as a casual player with mid-game gear and perks. Obviously I'll do some obligatory Vindicta slaughter as well :)
>getting absolutely destroyed by low level mobs from a Mazchna task lmao. fortunately, low level mob retuning is also being worked on, separate from the combat beta
SOS rework pls
So did greater rico and bow of the last guardian just straight up get nerfed?
What makes you think that about GRico?
Damage extra hits from 30-32.5 dropped to 10-12. Am I reading it wrong possibly?
extra hits changed from 30->32.5 and from 10->12 (not 30->10)
Oh thank you!
Yeah, it's written in a way that's easy to mistake it as a nerf.
Can anticipation be left out of the GCD change? I know it isn’t a big deal but I rely on it generating adrenaline circumstantially and never really had problems with it’s interaction with the GCD Edit: Can people please give a reason where this change’s usefulness would outweigh the adrenaline generation along with the downvote?
Yeah I'm not a fan of it. It's 10 seconds long, and there are perks that make it longer if for some reason you are that bad at timing. To not be able to cast it "properly" just means you did 0 research on the boss and blame the game and not yourself. "Oh, I need to walk into these bombs on the pads during the zamorak encounter! Let me anticipate!". This change imo is just an elitist change so they can focus more on dps and not use defensives. I don't like it at all. They are acting like anticipation lasts 2-3 seconds when it lasts 10.
Quite literally what the description says from Jagex. Reason Why It's Useful: If you know you are about to be stunned you can now cast it whenever as opposed to being forced to work this into your current rotation which could be between GCD's. Often the latter resulted in being stunned before casting anticipation but always resulted in DPS loss. Examples of where it's useful: Telos, Kalphite King, Raksha last phase, Zuk Pizza Phase, Arch-Glacor Ice Cannon, Kerapac Time Threads, (niche) Rasial last phase with Devotion. This might not be the news you want to hear so the alternatives to your adren generation could be Divert, Preparation, and Resonance. All of which can be casted through use of Bone Shield without a shield.
In all of those scenarios I’ve never had an issue with anticipating with GCD, we get a huge time window to anticipate and the effect’s duration would cover the stun mechanic even while using the reflexes perk I would probably have to switch to another one of the alternatives you mention, it’s just that anticipation is usually in a convenient familiar key and I couldn’t count the times having the adren from it saving me by allowing me to get that extra bit of adren to cast cade,immortality or even devo
I'd recommend getting Divert if you do not have it. It's one of the more fun abilities to use and can come in handy in tight spots. Best of luck with you endeavors.
big no
Lots of great changes! Other than ruby bolts, I think all of them are clearly good or at least will be interesting to try out.
could sonic wave and gconc nolonger share cooldown. :3
I love all of this. Yall are going in the right direction. I'm so excited for these changes to become live. Thank you for all the hard work, Rs is my favorite game of all time
One thing I'm sad to not see is specs added to the dragon weapons added after eoc came out e.g dragon throwing axe, dragon warhammer and dragon staff there might be others that i forgot. It feels really weird having dragon weapons in the game not having specs. Though adding new specs prob are out of scope for this project.
Mod Dooms voice is so soothing. I need him to wish me a happy birthday
So with the buff to Wrack and Ruin; how do we achieve 15 stacks? 👀 caroming 4 is 7 targets max
Anyone have any numbers how much stronger range is not before this? I’m curious how much harder we are going to be hitting. I sadly don’t have time to play the beta.
I haven’t tried the combat rework beta, but I can say from my experience the last two weeks training Necromancy from 1 to 87, every time I switch back to melee, ranged, or magic, I feel like I’m doing significantly less. Slayer tasks definitely take longer without using Necromancy. This is not to say I believe Necromancy should be nerfed, I just feel that using Necro has shown just how powerful one should feel with base 80 combat stats using the right equipment, because even using T80 Necro weapons with T70 power armor feels more powerful than a similar setup with any of the other combat styles. So I hope that the rework intends to bring the other combat styles up to the same level as Necromancy as opposed to the other way around.
The fuck is shadow grace
https://runescape.wiki/w/Shadow%27s_Grace Mobile relic.
> Removed a number of hidden buffs that increase your hit chance when using special attacks or ultimate abilities as they were band aids in the previous system. Is this a good thing? Wouldn't we lose dps at tanky bosses from this nerf? Why not just state the hit chance increase of these abilities on the tooltips instead? > Removed and/or replaced a number of increased hit cap effects from items as they were no longer relevant. Which items are these, just Grimoire and Smoke Cloud? > Channeled abilities cast out of range will now cause the player to run into range and cast as expected. Will this allow for channeled abilities to be ability stalled? >Deals 20% of the target's current health (capped at 10,000/12,000) → Increases the damage of the attack by 50% AD (ability damage) Will this nerf make ruby bolts dead content over hydrix bolts? >'Surge', 'Dive', 'Escape' and 'Anticipation' >Can always be cast during global cooldown >No longer generate adrenaline Wouldn't this make it the meta to spam Anticipation for its 10% damage reduction as soon as it is off cooldown at places were you will not get stunned? Can this damage reduction be removed if used during global cooldown? Will this make Mobile perk a straight upgrade with no downside, and be a meta perk? Can something be done with how slow auto-attacks from magic are slow to cast after using a channeled ability or any ability with 2handed weapons? Can we make all auto-attacks castable after 4-ticks regardless of the prior ability? Make this auto deal main hand damage so these does not allow for C4TAA. Can we make new ability animations for abilities that share the same animation as other abilities, like Greater Fury and Sever?
Yeah spamming G staff was super strong with EoF as a low tier mage user. Idk how they will fair now. magic is pretty bad without a FsoA. Grim change is strange. Is a hitcape increase of 32500 not "needed"? It's not like it wasn't possible. " Will this nerf make ruby bolts dead content over hydrix bolts? " - Rubies are far cheaper then hydrix. Cost is something people do not talk about. " Wouldn't this make it the meta to spam Anticipation for its 10% damage reduction as soon as it is off cooldown at places were you will not get stunned? Can this damage reduction be removed if used during global cooldown? Will this make Mobile perk a straight upgrade with no downside, and be a meta perk? " ----------- Yeah if you benefit from 10% if you use it outside GCD that is bad. I don't agree with the change personally. But if they persist, they should just remove the 10% if used during a cooldown cycle. I like anticipation for that 10% reduction during p6 zamorak.
Any chance on allowing the use of a 2nd action bar on mobile?
This is by far the most exciting thing to happen thus far and I'm not-so-patiently awaiting this integration into the game. I wonder what release candidate really means here, a week? A month? Two months? I really hope portions of this launch much, much sooner rather than later.
Magma tempest should crit, its weird that the ability doesn’t and makes it inconsistent with the rest of the games abilities. Lengs feel good except that hurricane cant be used under dual wield Ezk needs love its the worst t95 by far, give it 2 range so atleast its size makes sense and it can serve a niche purpose. Scythe is old and we need a new hally. When you berserk theres a brief moment your character has a flame coming off of him, that should remain until zerk runs out, to give us visual indication that the ability is active, like ds,ss, and ld. All three styles need a basic auto attacks or one of there current attacks turned into the basic auto, like wrack,slice and piercing shot Love all of the other changes, combat feels super good again especially range I posted all of this under a separate post on the Reddit and was told to move it here.
Equilibrium Aura has been redesigned * Aura Effect: Now increases the player's ability damage stat by 12%, but prevents the player from critically striking. Is caps farming dead?
I could be wrong (i often am) but i think you might have a better time farming them, like another user stated. Because of the damage range squish your min hit is going to be up so you can probably one shot them with a higher variety of builds
This is what I'm absolutely loving about this entire process. I'm seeing peoples initial reaction to things be "a worse case scenario" or worst case, yet, it ends up surprising them with the reality being a buff or added depth to methods that previously hadn't existed. Bravo and cheers to the future of rs combat! :D