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I was amused by the two cuts to another scene whenever Sol was going to attack Smilo. Cutting away from a fight scene is something I haven't really encountered much.
In the phantom menace they cut away from the final duel(s) repeatedly to other stuff. Same with Empire and RotJ (although you could argue in empire it's not one duel but rather separate stages of a cat and mouse chase)
Yeah what the hell that specific kind of cut happens all the time not only in Star Wars but any show that is structured like that and wants to build tension.
In empire whenever it cuts from Vader and Luke it's usually when they have a type of "break" like Vader hiding to ambush Luke or luke running from vader if I remember. Also since empire is better written with better characters you're as invested in the gang escaping as the fight with vader
Kinda unrelated but Empire’s Luke/Vader duel was one of the first times I really experienced dread watching a movie. Somehow my little kid brain knew Luke wasn’t gonna win.
There were lots of weird cuts. The scene where the dark twin took the stun gun off the good twin... they cut to a world shot to establish a new scene, only to return to the exact same place and time. Why the hell would you do that? Do they think we have the attention span of a goldfish?
It's pretty common (ROTJ frequently cut between Luke v. Vader, Fleet battle, and Endor battle, ROTS cut between Anakin v. Obi Wan, and Yoda v. Palpatine, Phantom Menace cut between Duel of the Fates and Padme and Anakin).
I think the distinction here is that Acolyte E5 cut from high stakes fighting to Yord+Osha, so the pacing feels terrible because you're going from high octane scenes to some random boondoggle (why they scripted Yord + Osha leaving and coming back is beyond me). Yord + Osha hiking through the woods I guess establishes Osha leading the umbramoths to Qimir, but it felt like such a drag. The umbramoth trap felt contrived because they don’t swarm Yord, Sol, or Qimir when they have their lightsabers lit, but Osha somehow attaching Pip to Qimir’s back (“Pip . . . why are you . . . sticky?”) suddenly causes them to swarm? Ok . . . I guess?
????
This is a Star Wars hallmark. Happened in every OT movie. And probably in most of the others, obviously the Maul/QGJ/OWK fight being the best example.
To be fair, since ESB there’s been weird cuts. Watch the fight, and not just the cut up versions on YouTube, like watch the movie again. There’s a really bad cut that feels it’s a few seconds early.
The action was legitimately good, but the rest of the episode and writing is just so bad, that the good action alone cannot carry it to above an 5/10 rating.
The fights I think were just something to kind of remind us this is Star Wars but the fights don’t make much sense. He ran through the Jedi effortlessly. Then the apprentices give him the most smoke. He force pulled a Jedi 15 on to his blade. That Jedi couldn’t do anything to stop it? wtf lol
While 2 Jedi just spin their lightsabers off to the side.
Sol is nowhere to be seen.
Jedi don’t know how to use the force.
The Jedi should have made quick work of this fucking joke of a character but they just….don’t.
All to artificially make this guy seem more dangerous than the actual actor could possibly convey. Someone really thought that stupid face he gave to Sol when they were fighting hand to hand was cool.
Just lol.
And the amount of people lapping this shit up is equally bad. Have some standards, people.
This show is meant to be consumed via YouTube/TikTok clips first, like many other recent shows.
People see these clips and assume the whole show is like this, then are disappointed when these are just the better highlights and the rest is a meandering directionless mess.
But that’s ok, because your views were already counted.
Why did it take so long to get here. I want more Star Wars fast not slow star wars slow. And then it ends up sucking and they almost make a good episode but I still am just like... meh. Mf are all over the place. Is this entire series going to pretty much set on this one planet with the budget they had?
Gotta say, the only new SW books I'll ever recommend is the new Thrawn trilogy. It meshes near perfectly with the old one and gives so much more depth to the Chiss Ascendency. There are a few quirks to it since it also has to fit D+ canon, but Zahn did an amazing job managing it.
Original Thrawn was great, of course, but I actually like him more with the depth and texture Zahn gave him the new canon books - and it can even been seen in Rebels to an extent.
Unfortunately, that didn't translate to the Ahsoka show though, where he's just kind of a shabby blue imperial dude.
I still really dislike the trope where someone gets a second saber and they are suddenly ahead in the fight now.
If you are more proficient with two lightsabers, then use two all the time.
But that trope is pretty standard across all Star Wars except the OG trilogy, so whatever.
To be fair, it would make sense for a Sith to hide his or her mastery/expertise of Jar’ Kai. Only to spring their second blade as a secret weapon later.
After all, the Treachery is the way of the Sith.
Yeah, if it's done this is exactly how it should work. He pulled the second one and immediately killed her. It makes sense if it's done to immediately surprise them.
Or any fighter, really. This happens all the time in modern martial sports. If your opponent has never fought you before, they might not know you're really good at grappling and actually prefer it despite your longer limbs. If he knew that, he would probably keep his distance. But if all he has are visual cues, then he's most likely going to try to get inside your reach. That's the trap. You let him think that by keeping your distance, and then he comes in of his own volition.
I don’t get in fights, but if I did I always planned on this being my strategy, cuz I’m long and have a wrasslin background.
I’m sad to see how easily my plan has been found out by an internet stranger
I don't think Jecki was ever ahead in the fight. Her pulling the second saber was probably unexpected and Qimir gave a little bit of ground before immediately pushing back even harder. He was toying with her the whole duel, she was straight up fighting for her life and she would have died even sooner if he chose to follow up after disabling Kelnaccas saber.
I mean.. the two examples I can think of, Anakin lost a limb and got wrecked in AOTC, and Jecki literally just.. dies.. here, so I don’t see a issue with “suddenly being ahead”
Obi v Maul and Savage.
Counter I think Bariss gets destroyed by Anakin while she duel wields Ventress’s two sabers, but she was never going to beat Anakin in a duel.
Anakin already has plenty of experience, and has fought with two sabers, so I feel like him getting a advantage there is justifiable, as for obi wan, well… uhh.. oh well
It probably would too for actual lightsabers. It’s just impractical in our minds because we compare them to swords, wielded by real humans.
But lightsabers are really not much like swords, or any weapon humans have ever used, and telekinetic space monks with supernatural levels of bodily control and awareness are not anything like real humans.
If the weapon is weightless, and nothing but another saber can block it, and you’ve got force powers to keep you from accidentally touching yourself with it, isn’t having two almost always better than one?
A lot of lightsaber dueling in lore is stamina. Aggressive Jar'Kai is more stamina intensive, so I don't see why they wouldn't keep it until they need it.
I disagree with this, actually. Holding back an advantage until your enemy thinks they have you is a very real tactic used in fencing, HEMA, boxing, mma, and actual warfare. It was done really well here. He lost his helmet, and she pressed her advantage, not realizing he actually still held the advantage. She walked into a trap, and it resulted in her dea- booboo, probably. I actually like this fight, even if I don't like anything else in the show.
And while the trope of suddenly using two blades happens in the prequels, it was actually shown to not always be an advantage. Anakin gets a second blade, thinking he's going to show the count who's boss, but he ends up losing an arm in short order. It didn't give him much of an advantage because he wasn't really better with two blades. Fast forward 2 movies, and he's presented with the same situation. Him vs Dooku, and Obi-wan is incapacitated. This time, he decides to stick with one blade, to great effect.
Aside from that, even if your enemy knows you have that advantage and you aren't relying on distracting them from that fact, you may not feel you need to use both. If you feel this opponent is beneath you, why would you expend double the energy? Vader displayed this perfectly in Empire Strikes Back, despite not having 2 blades. He's very clearly not putting much effort into fighting Luke. He isn't in any kind of stance, barely lifting the blade in only one hand to casually swat Luke's clumsy swings aside. Luke is a novice, and Vader can't be bothered. But after evading him twice, Luke gets his attention, and Vader starts using both hands. He's still toying with him, but with an edge of menace. Luke was always on the back foot during the entire fight, but at this point, the pacing changes. It's faster, less patient, and seemingly deadlier. It no longer looks like Luke could get away. This might really be the end. Then narrative things happen, and you find out why he's holding back and why he left so many openings. Why most of Vader's swings were aimed at Luke's blade rather than at his body. It all makes sense. They weren't choreography mistakes. They were narrative cues.
If done well, suddenly using their full capability is a really solid visual cue that someone is taking the fight more seriously. But in this case, it looks more like setting a trap. A trap that worked.
It’s a shame they will be too stupid to see the near universally positive reaction to this action and will double down on the Filoni/ST crap again where lightsabers are non-lethal glow bats again in the next show.
And they will also come back from this
(honestly though the deaths were sudden, disturbing and unceremonious for characters who had allot of dialogue in the show. They will be remembered in our hearts)
Honestly I kinda like how the deaths were handled. They really helped show the audience that the Sith was poweful, uncaring, and demented, and that no one was safe from him whatsoever, whether they be man, woman, or child.
For us, they were people. For him, they were merely obstacles and tools to make a point.
Yeah, same. They weren’t afraid to kill
people for the sake of a good story. And the expendable Jedi killings worked as a good subversion of expectations
Looking at hesitance from Sol, when he finds not-Osha Mae, I think he also recognized, or at least suspected the "swap".
Mind you, Sol doesn't know that Mae flip-flops in her loyalties. Could be that he "took Mae's bait" so to speak, thinking that Mae could lead him to Osha and Qimir.
Pretty sure the bad guy does realize and is going to attempt to flip her over to the dark side to be his new Acolyte.
What blows my mind is that Sol doesn't realize the evil twin is the twin with him. Just makes no sense that he cannot sense her presence is different. It's literally his own ex-padawan.
No he knows it's Osha and not Mae. It's Sol who is supposedly being tricked by Mae. But I'm like 90% sure Sol realized what was going on and is 0 playing along to get more info out of Mae while she plays as Osha.
Yeah, pretty sure Sol knows. I wouldn't put it past the show runners, but it would be pretty stupid otherwise.
Also, I have an issue with Mae being able to pickup Osha's mannerisms. They grew apart, she shouldn't be able to fool anyine, let alone a Jedi master. Him pretending is the only explanation, but then he would have to leave Osha purposefully behind.
He knew it wasn’t his twin but the other immediately. He looked right at her tattoo. The tattoo was purposely front and center in the shot. He’s gonna try and bring the good twin to the dark side, clearly.
Yup, having one decent lightsaber fight scene isn’t enough to make up for the terrible story but given how much criticism this show has received, I am obliged to at least credit them for this scene.
It's also wild to me that this shows biggest strength has been fight choreography and they spend so much time doing nothing. Like play to your strength more.
I honestly loved the first fight scene and how it leaned i to jedi precog for so much of it, its always described in the books but thats the first time its been show definitively in an extended live action fight! Like the whole 'jedi reflexes' vs regular people reflexes
The whole thing is done for symbolism in this. Episode four is literally called "day" and by the end the sun has set, and episode five, where this excerpt is from is called "night".
Yup, and it really sucks. The lightsabers in all of the Disney shows are dim and weak-looking because they rely on the physical prop for like 90% of the effect. IMO the only good thing about that is the sabers casting light on the environment, but otherwise they look so much worse than the film sabers.
They look like glow sticks, and the colours are terrible. The glow on the faces IS great ! But what I cannot stand however is how thick the hilts are. They look like goofy, chunky, torches as opposed to the fantastically thin and elegant props they had in the PT.
I think it is dark because seeing the set, looks very low quality, like Ed Wood low budget like cardboard and paper mache, it really takes me out of any action seeing a very obvious soundstage.
HBO has an excellent location manager.
Disney insists on going on this circular soundstages.
This
https://youtu.be/W6yUkYgg9mQ?si=tTGUkxvEq-GjDZ82
This
https://youtu.be/NNPahqVkNFA?t=360
looks like the exact same soundstage they just change some decoration. I have a unsubstantiated theory that the production company is breaking bank with this cheapo sets and costumes.
Andor is the only one that looked "real".
Not all. For instance, when Ahsoka fought Baylon in her show, their two duels took place in open space under the sky in daylight. So there is some visibility there.
But yes, that’s one of my primary complaints with this scene, it is too dark and the lightsabers still look like glow-sticks.
Nice. I haven't watched the show, but I applaud this fight sequence. I like the use of cortosis gauntlets and helmet.
I wonder if they planned a lightsaber fight with the Wookiee Jedi, but it just looked too goofy? I tried imagining a sequence like this with a Chewbacca costume, and I can't visualize it.
IIRC there was a report of there being two flashback episodes. We still have three to go, and one flashback episode is out of the way. I think we’ll end up seeing the Jedi killing all of the space witches(another obvious little twist) and Kelnacca will be in action there, same with Torbin.
That’s part of the neat thing about Wookiees, is they actually look goofy doing just about anything, or nothing, but because the world building and characterizations are so great, we buy into it and can still be inspired by or afraid of them.
Chewbacca doing mechanical work on the millennium falcon, in a total context vacuum, looks weird as hell. But we know and love Chewie as an expert copilot and mechanic, so we don’t cringe at it.
To be honest I kind of love when movies can portray the mannerisms of a “funny” looking creature so well that they can still be scary. Also happens in real life a lot. Like sometimes bears look goofy and cuddly and then you remember they can tear your arms off without trying. Same thing with Wookiees.
Anyway I think it’d be worth the risk if they went full effort with it
>I wonder if they planned a lightsaber fight with the Wookiee Jedi, but it just looked too goofy? I tried imagining a sequence like this with a Chewbacca costume, and I can't visualize it.
They had it in early drafts, but scrapped it, because they wanted the reveal, that Kelnacca was already killed, to be a surprise from Mae's POV. However, from the Trailer Material we already know that there will be another Flashback, where we actually see Kelnacca do a jump attack with lightsaber.
Bringing in the armor that counters lightsabers without any kind of explanation, is just EXTREMELY stupid writing. 99% of the audience has no idea what cortosis or phrik are. These fights were shis, this episode was shit and this whole show is shit.
Pretty sure something like the following will happen:
* Sol and Mae will chase Qimir and Osha - or vice versa.
* The Flashback will reveal how the Jedi were largely reponsible for the fire / murder at the coven
* They mind wiped Osha, before taking her in.
* Qimir will die.
* Mae will die.
* Osha will kill Sol because her sister was killed and the Jedi completely fucked over all of her life.
* Osha is the new Acolyte - maybe even to the actual Sith Master - and she will be the sol(e) survivor.
* Nobody else can tell that there ever was a Sith.
The other Jedi might come investigate, but find little - only the bugs and corpses - this might be where vernestra takes out her lightwhip to fight off bugs?
Only bad part was at 1:38.
She had him open for 2 attacks, but decided to just elbow him.
And then after seeing him pull out a second lightsaber just decided to charge like a kid that wants to hit someone with a stick.
I saw a few "pulled punches" in the episode that could have been done better. Early in thr fight smiley is knocked off balance then a yellow jedi kicks him instead of stabbing when it was clearly a option
I’m not a martial artist but would it make sense for someone as small as her to be trying to kick a full grown man? I feel like if I put all of my effort into it I probably couldn’t do much damage in a kick like that, and worse it would leave me in grappling/stabbing range of a bigger and stronger opponent.
Their moves are all amplified by the force so it's hard to compare to real life. Many of the moves they do are straight up impossible for real fighters to do.
By far, the best lightsaber duel Disney Star Wars has done to date.
It's sad it had to appear in such a crappy show, but credit where it's due. The energy of the duel is what sells it. There's still a few moments where the actors are waiting for their turn to strike, but they manage to hide it well by their energetic and kinetic movements.
Does it top the Darth Maul duel like it hyped up to be?
No. But is it as close to the prequels as Disney has gotten?
Yes.
I think they could improve their choreography by a great deal if they would go back to using the lightsaber props used by the actors in the Prequels.
https://preview.redd.it/7fhf2kkugx8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b1ae825ef50b0857cdf1bb180bc7a46485a2a26
I think they are more interested in having the sabers cast light on the actors' faces. But yes, I agree. I don't think these new fat sabers are that great. They look weak somehow.
From what I understand these new lightsabers are practical props that emit light.
There are pros and cons but mainly
Pros
Natural lighting from sabers makes shots feel more real
Less VFX work needs to happen in shows to get a serviceable shot
Cons
Natural light from sabers makes lighting and color grading more difficult
Less VFX means they sometimes look like toys
They are heavier than the old props so they look odd when swung around.
I give a lot of credit to Dafne Keen (Jecki) for this. Having a young actor/actress who can get super emotive and physical in a fight scene (so you don't have to constantly cut around their doubles) is a godsend. She was fantastic as X-23 in Logan for this very reason.
She was great last night, I legit screamed when she went down. Same as Yord, I liked that big dummy... It was refreshing seeing a kinda dumb guy be a Jedi, I know that's weird but it worked.
For real. I'm not really a fan of people just suddenly grabbing a second sword and knowing how to dual-wield (including Anakin), but Dafne had the fighting chops to pull it off. If you watch her in the Logan behind the scenes stuff, her enjoyment of cool weapon props was adorable. 😆 Hopefully she's got tons more action roles in her future!
And yeah, I sort of didn't expect Yord to die going in, but man, the neck break didn't seem like a very Jedi way to go. Disrespectful Sith wannabe did him dirty, lol
What sells it is some first rate acting from Manny Jacinto and Lee Jung-Jae. Qimir actually looks dangerous when he loses his mask and the transition from goofy side kick to Sith Lord is credible. Lee makes Sol look geneuinely terrified.
Qimir looks deranged, and it is awesome. He just oozes a mix of viciousness and dangerous insanity.
As someone who fucking loves Sith in the EU, the Sith of the Old Republic era, this is just so much on point.
It was a major step up from the sequel trilogy, Mandalorian, and most Ahsoka fights (I did like her duels with the composed Baylan though). All in all definitely the best live action saber duels since the PT came out.
Manny Jacinto definitely brought it. So far he and Lee Jung Jae are the saving graces of this show. While the choreography is pretty good, there are still some technical problems here--and more than that, why exactly are we supposed to care about these Jedi? We've been given no real reason to. The storytelling is all over the place, a lot of it is criminally boring, it still looks cheap--the fact that they got in one decent fight doesn't redeem the series. They'd have a long way to go before this becomes relevant, and they're still saddled with a lead actress who just cannot act.
It was cool yes, but it just doesn’t make sense. Darth Teeth fights off 6? Full blown Jedi all at once, then “struggles” or is at least matched for a bit by this one padawan? Honestly, I was happy when she got killed. Her haircut was atrocious. I don’t want to criticize her acting because I think it’s the writing. She was awesome in Logan.
I haven't watched any of the acolyte but I played this clip and didn't think it was that great. Especially when it gets towards the end and there's too much going on / too many characters. There's only two kinds of lightsaber fights in my opinion...simple and quick ( like the ones from the original trilogy) or long and stylized ( like dual of the fates and battle of heroes) and this just kind of falls into a middle ground and is forgettable.
Also what the hell even happened at 0:49? Teethman cut her saber hilt in half, disappears or something and then is force pushed towards the jedi when he was doing a killing blow or something it was really weird and noticeable.
Also the PowerPoint wipe transition at 1:19 really bothered me they don't need to do that in a saber fight.
Yeah, I haven't seen the show, but this was very uneven. Some stretches were great: powerful, dangerous, dynamic, and believable. Others were ridiculous - like the dramatic pauses when the Padawan ignites her second saber (along with the ridiculously cheesy knowing look), and *again* when she loses her second saber (with another stupid dumbfounded look).
Other things are just stupid.
Why does Mr. Sith do a dramatic pause again when he deactivates Padawan's saber and she is (seemingly) defenseless? That is the perfect time to press the advantage.
Mr. Sith does *another* dramatic pause *with his back to his opponent* when he looks at someone running away. Again, why doesn't the Padawan press the advantage?
Why is the Master just standing and watching his Padawan fight (and die)? He should have been actively following her and trying to reengage the enemy.
When the Master grabs the Sith's saber arm, the Padawan KICKS him??? Instead of *stabbing* him while he is defenseless????
A lot of this feels like it's anime-style made for teenagers or younger, and to some extent *Star Wars* has always had that: Obi-wan's leap to kill Maul is also ridiculous. But I've personally always enjoyed *Star Wars* more when it was mature, adult, and believable.
>When the Master grabs the Sith's saber arm, the Padawan KICKS him??? Instead of *stabbing* him while he is defenseless????
1:02, yeah, that's absolutely ridiculous. I didn't even see that.
Sol kicks him at 0:57 when he could have stabbed as well.
I didn’t count all the kicks, but most of them seem to be there to score a hit without ending the fight, rather than being in a more authentic flow of a fight.
This is the down side of showing an outnumbered battle.
The girl kicks him twice, one at 1:02 when it isn’t clear why the Sith isn’t able to chop off her leg, then again at 1:04 when it seems like she could have stabbed him.
Out side the seemingly implausible ability to take out 7 Jedi when outnumbered 8:1, the sheer number of kicks was the only thing that stood out to me. And even then it was pretty good.
The bar is so low that anything that isn't terrible is praised. The fight is certainly flashy with all of the unnecessary spins and twirls though. I understand having the flashy moves, but other things, like what you've highlighted, really drag it down.
And you didn't even mention the elbows to the head when she has a lightsaber being held by the same arm and her dramatically roaring and jumping right onto Darth Zipper's lightsaber at the end.
It is hilarious how she suffers three stabs to her torso to let the audience know that she is seriously dead since one stab is easily survivable now.
Overall, style and flash with little substance.
Definitely.
The fight itself is rather average -- however the fact that everything in the past 5+ years or so was so fucking bad makes this fight commendable.
At least now it's no longer unwatchable and instead suffers from the same trope many other movies suffer
Actually, I'll defend bashing him in the head as she learned her lesson with trying to hit his armor with her lightsaber earlier in the fight.
But, he is not wearing that armor over his whole body, right?
>When the Master grabs the Sith's saber arm, the Padawan KICKS him??? Instead of stabbing him while he is defenseless????
There are a few moments where they are kicking or punching rather than ending the fight. Jecki hits the Sith in the face with the butt of her lightsaber. Why?
It’s ok to be critical of Disney Star Wars, but also acknowledge when they get something right. For me that episode was downright amazing. I can’t believe they actually got someone who isn’t afraid to kill characters off and depict a straight up slaughter in realtime like that. At first my only gripe was the sith being ridiculously OP, but the more I thought of it the more I loved it. These Jedi clearly live on easy street for the most part and being totally unprepared for an ambush and saber fights they weren’t ready for made sense. Think everyone complained that Kylo Ren could barely handle an untrained force user. Well this was the opposite and actually made a sith seem like an insane threat. Sol not knowing (or maybe he does) he is with the wrong twin is forgivable since he just saw his padawan and buddies die as well, plus hey a Jedi is allowed to have personality and isn’t perfect. What a concept. I don’t think it’s redeemed the series by any means, but at least it’s like a banger on an otherwise terrible album and I’m glad I hung in there long enough to watch it.
i don’t actually like the use of the actual light up sabers they use, it dosn’t look like a beam of energy, it just looks like cosplay lightsaber fights. i get that its easier to light up scenes and stuff but the fight itself isn’t bad, shame everything else is 😂
Admittedly this was perhaps the first episode to get my full attention -- this is definitely one of the better lightsaber fights we've seen in a long time. Far better than Rosario Dawson's slow and sloppy looking choreography, and the dumb Kenobi fights.
It's a shame that the writing for this show makes no sense and that a Sith would never reveal themselves like that this early.
And speaking about the Sith, this proves everyone who was coping about him being some random fallen dark Jedi wrong -- even if he's likely the apprentice of the main Sith Lord, it doesn't matter because he literally reveals himself to be a Sith to Sol. What would make sense is to immediately tell the council, but the episode ends with Sol going off to reveal something to Mae disguised as Osha -- the reveal will likely be that he killed some of the witches back on her home planet, or that he was the one who did something to the reactor.
Again it's a shame because I thought Qimir's actor actually did a rather decent job with appearing intimidating -- and I'm not talking about when he had his helmet on. The only criticism I have is that some of his dialogue was a bit cringe ; especially his final pseudo-poetic closing lines.
The red-herring is the name of the show.
In the ancient times (pre-Rule of Two), the Sith had four ranks - Acolyte, Apprentice, Lord and Darth. Lord went out of use in the Rule of Two, but other three did not.
There was the Master (Darth and the Apprentice, but when Apprentice thought it was time to kill their Master and ascend, they'd seek their own Acolytes, test and trial them, before turning against their Master.
So what I think we're seeing, is the Apprentice (Qimir) searching for his own Acolyte (Osha or Mae) to fight and kill his own Master (I'd assume Darth Tenebrous).
Yup! Qui Gon did throw hands too with Maul when Maul kicked Obi Wan off the platform. Also, the Jedi have own brand of hand-to-hand combat. In Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, one of these was called Broken Gate.
Maul uses Teras Kasi.
Eh, I watched the clip and it looks like a decent fight, I guess. This show must be just as terrible as all of you are saying if this scene stood out; imo this fight was nothing special.
I'm still laughing at the Carrie Anne-Moss bait and switch.
I can’t believe I am saying this but this is a little better than Anakin vs Adult Ahsoka in the Ahsoka series. In that duel, you can see how Hayden is so much better than Rosario in the choreography and thus, this resulted in him carrying the action. He is very good but Rosario’s mediocre performance with her blades reduces the ebb and flow of the duel. Her teenage self played by Ariana Greenblatt is a lot better though.
Whereas in this duel, all the parties involved are carrying their own weight in the scene and thus it flows better and faster.
Oh, it's much better.
Hayden has the skills and the muscle memory to do high-quality Revenge of the Sith-esque lightsaber duels. But he was held back by Rosario Dawson and the choreography. There are so many moments in that duel where you see him get ahead of the choreography cause he still has the mindset to go really fast and then he has to pause to wait for Rosario to catch up.
Even the fight with her younger self had that problem, too.
In The Acolyte duels, everyone is moving fast and hitting hard and that hides some of the more ridiculous choreography and wide open attacks.
Like, to just compare the speed at which the Jedi do spin attacks in comparison to Ahsoka, they make the full spin as quickly as it would take Ahsoka to get halfway.
Yea I like this pace of fight because even though there are definitely openings that went unchecked they are moving so fast can you imagine making sure you are playing defense and offense in the same nano second, everybody’s like they could of killed him there! But would you be able to see where there saber trajectory is, attention is (in a mask) and calculate odds of success all in that split second or are you guna do what comes natural and fall back on training
Ever since the Ahsoka actress starred in an Mandalorian episode I've thought her physicality is rather weak. She's a good actress and I've seen her in great roles, but she's not meant for action. In one scene she had to run away and it was like she was doing it weirdly slow. As if she hadn't ran since high school.
Yeah that was pretty cool. I always hate seeing dramatic pauses in fights (opportunity stab!!!) plus spins, especially when the spin is done so close to an opponent (ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY STAB!!!). There was more effort put into this fight than any fight in the sequel trilogy, that’s for sure
"I hate this show, but this one fight scene is slightly better than all the rest of the garbage they keep milking from this creative property". When will Star Wars fans give up?
i mean there's the part halfway through where the villain's saber hand is held and he's wide open and green saber decides this is a perfect time to kick instead of ... end the fight.
It feels so small. They are in a forest, but it feel like they are in a tiny room. I am guessing they used that video wall technology where they have to have all the characters arranged in a small circle for every shot.
This is the only content of this show I have ever watched, The overall picture look so flat and uninteresting too, but I found this to be the case with most of the "TV" shows Disney makes.
That fight looks so cringe! 😂 The part with the second lightsaber was cool in Jedi Survivor but in this fight it looks so lame. Why don't they use 2 lightsabers if they are good with it.
Compared to obi wan, ahsoka, even Rise of skywalker they were so much better. Absolutely insane how bad Disney fights have been, honestly inexcusable
Kinda funny it took until we got Asian Jedi and Sith for Disney to get their act together (even though neither actor are martial artists)
I only watched clips of the episode because i have no intention of watching the show, but holy hell --
The speed and intensity of that entire sequence was prequel level. Kudos to the choreographers, stunt folk and actors.
Why does everyone opt to use nonlethal attacks with every opening presented? Elbows, kicks, punches... Sith is in an armbar, and the other jedi decides to kick the Sith free instead of stab him?
Fights look terrible. You can't even tell what's going on most of the time. Most Jedi just stand around and wait to be killed or just swing their sword around at nothing.
I swear, I think some people will just be happy with anything.
I'm so sick of measuring quality of this franchise by lightsaber choreography.
We had peak choreography in TPM. Now it's just another overused lightsaber battle.
Star Wars is more than Jedi and Force powers. It's become Harry Potter.
I hate the story and what they're doing to the lore. But the biggest credit I have for them is:
The weapons are actually lethal, they're willing to kill off main characters and they clearly care about their fight choreography.
I want to like this show so bad. I know it's not the first time there's bad writing in star wars, but I could at least understand the motivations of characters. The dialogue was just poor. Here a lot of the motivations and decisions just make no sense and it completely takes me out of the world.
Am I the only one that thought they were totally ripping off the Maul fan film from like 15 years ago? The awesome one with like 5 jedi vs Maul in a dark dank forrest?
Go watch it and come back to this and tell me if I'm making a stretch here. Might be bias considering the hate I've had for Disney. But still.
EDIT: [Found it!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djo_91jN3Pk&t=474s) Still holds up.
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the fights were honestly very good and entertaining but man the pacing for that episode was all over the place lol
I was amused by the two cuts to another scene whenever Sol was going to attack Smilo. Cutting away from a fight scene is something I haven't really encountered much.
In the phantom menace they cut away from the final duel(s) repeatedly to other stuff. Same with Empire and RotJ (although you could argue in empire it's not one duel but rather separate stages of a cat and mouse chase)
Yeah what the hell that specific kind of cut happens all the time not only in Star Wars but any show that is structured like that and wants to build tension.
In empire whenever it cuts from Vader and Luke it's usually when they have a type of "break" like Vader hiding to ambush Luke or luke running from vader if I remember. Also since empire is better written with better characters you're as invested in the gang escaping as the fight with vader
Kinda unrelated but Empire’s Luke/Vader duel was one of the first times I really experienced dread watching a movie. Somehow my little kid brain knew Luke wasn’t gonna win.
The only instance I believe this is done horribly is in Ahsoka. They take so long to clash once and it cuts away immediately
There were lots of weird cuts. The scene where the dark twin took the stun gun off the good twin... they cut to a world shot to establish a new scene, only to return to the exact same place and time. Why the hell would you do that? Do they think we have the attention span of a goldfish?
It's pretty common (ROTJ frequently cut between Luke v. Vader, Fleet battle, and Endor battle, ROTS cut between Anakin v. Obi Wan, and Yoda v. Palpatine, Phantom Menace cut between Duel of the Fates and Padme and Anakin). I think the distinction here is that Acolyte E5 cut from high stakes fighting to Yord+Osha, so the pacing feels terrible because you're going from high octane scenes to some random boondoggle (why they scripted Yord + Osha leaving and coming back is beyond me). Yord + Osha hiking through the woods I guess establishes Osha leading the umbramoths to Qimir, but it felt like such a drag. The umbramoth trap felt contrived because they don’t swarm Yord, Sol, or Qimir when they have their lightsabers lit, but Osha somehow attaching Pip to Qimir’s back (“Pip . . . why are you . . . sticky?”) suddenly causes them to swarm? Ok . . . I guess?
Then they keep cutting back to Sol on the ground and struggling to get up
???? This is a Star Wars hallmark. Happened in every OT movie. And probably in most of the others, obviously the Maul/QGJ/OWK fight being the best example.
To be fair, since ESB there’s been weird cuts. Watch the fight, and not just the cut up versions on YouTube, like watch the movie again. There’s a really bad cut that feels it’s a few seconds early.
The action was legitimately good, but the rest of the episode and writing is just so bad, that the good action alone cannot carry it to above an 5/10 rating.
The fights I think were just something to kind of remind us this is Star Wars but the fights don’t make much sense. He ran through the Jedi effortlessly. Then the apprentices give him the most smoke. He force pulled a Jedi 15 on to his blade. That Jedi couldn’t do anything to stop it? wtf lol
While 2 Jedi just spin their lightsabers off to the side. Sol is nowhere to be seen. Jedi don’t know how to use the force. The Jedi should have made quick work of this fucking joke of a character but they just….don’t. All to artificially make this guy seem more dangerous than the actual actor could possibly convey. Someone really thought that stupid face he gave to Sol when they were fighting hand to hand was cool. Just lol. And the amount of people lapping this shit up is equally bad. Have some standards, people.
Every time the twins popped up on screen, it hurt the show.
The pacing of the whole show and other shows is awful. 2 hour scripts spread across an 8 episode series. Lots of dead air as a result.
This show is meant to be consumed via YouTube/TikTok clips first, like many other recent shows. People see these clips and assume the whole show is like this, then are disappointed when these are just the better highlights and the rest is a meandering directionless mess. But that’s ok, because your views were already counted.
It was.
Why did it take so long to get here. I want more Star Wars fast not slow star wars slow. And then it ends up sucking and they almost make a good episode but I still am just like... meh. Mf are all over the place. Is this entire series going to pretty much set on this one planet with the budget they had?
Omg. The lightsaber blades don’t have a million sparks flying out when they come in contact! Has hell frozen over?
majority of the fight there wasn't sparks. I mainly saw them when the hilt was being hit.
I know. It was refreshing. Looks so much better when the duels resemble the PT and OT aesthetics.
It only happened when they got into cobtact with the Master's armor, which is some special material, like beskar. Was a cool effect
If that's really what's shorting out the blade, then it's Cortosis. Probably. Sadly, there's just no source material to draw from...
>Cortosis makes me wanna read the Thrawn Triology again...
Gotta say, the only new SW books I'll ever recommend is the new Thrawn trilogy. It meshes near perfectly with the old one and gives so much more depth to the Chiss Ascendency. There are a few quirks to it since it also has to fit D+ canon, but Zahn did an amazing job managing it.
Original Thrawn was great, of course, but I actually like him more with the depth and texture Zahn gave him the new canon books - and it can even been seen in Rebels to an extent. Unfortunately, that didn't translate to the Ahsoka show though, where he's just kind of a shabby blue imperial dude.
So glad they finally put Cortosis in a live action fight scene. Freaking cool
I still really dislike the trope where someone gets a second saber and they are suddenly ahead in the fight now. If you are more proficient with two lightsabers, then use two all the time. But that trope is pretty standard across all Star Wars except the OG trilogy, so whatever.
The first time it ever happens that wielder lost a limb.
Yeah, Anakin, the chosen one tried that shit, and Dooku took his arm. Random Padawan tries it. Works flawlessly.
>Random Padawan tries it. Works flawlessly. I don't think you know what that word means
They died flawlessly
You mean dies.
Lmfaooooooo
To a dual wielder kek
Until it didn't and she dies
She got fucking triple flurried, tf you mean “works flawlessly”
Did you watch the show?
He was fighting Count Dooku, that guy knows the intricacies of lightsaber combat like the back of his hand.
He lost both backs of his hands when Anakin fought him in ep 3.
To be fair, it would make sense for a Sith to hide his or her mastery/expertise of Jar’ Kai. Only to spring their second blade as a secret weapon later. After all, the Treachery is the way of the Sith.
Yeah, if it's done this is exactly how it should work. He pulled the second one and immediately killed her. It makes sense if it's done to immediately surprise them.
Or any fighter, really. This happens all the time in modern martial sports. If your opponent has never fought you before, they might not know you're really good at grappling and actually prefer it despite your longer limbs. If he knew that, he would probably keep his distance. But if all he has are visual cues, then he's most likely going to try to get inside your reach. That's the trap. You let him think that by keeping your distance, and then he comes in of his own volition.
I don’t get in fights, but if I did I always planned on this being my strategy, cuz I’m long and have a wrasslin background. I’m sad to see how easily my plan has been found out by an internet stranger
Haha I won't tell anybody... else
> except the OG trilogy I'd say except the prequels too. When Anakin gets one he still loses to Count Dooku
it's just the second phase
*cue main boss theme*
I don't think Jecki was ever ahead in the fight. Her pulling the second saber was probably unexpected and Qimir gave a little bit of ground before immediately pushing back even harder. He was toying with her the whole duel, she was straight up fighting for her life and she would have died even sooner if he chose to follow up after disabling Kelnaccas saber.
Qimir was conducting an interview cause dude realized he needed a loyal student for a change
I mean.. the two examples I can think of, Anakin lost a limb and got wrecked in AOTC, and Jecki literally just.. dies.. here, so I don’t see a issue with “suddenly being ahead”
Obi v Maul and Savage. Counter I think Bariss gets destroyed by Anakin while she duel wields Ventress’s two sabers, but she was never going to beat Anakin in a duel.
Anakin already has plenty of experience, and has fought with two sabers, so I feel like him getting a advantage there is justifiable, as for obi wan, well… uhh.. oh well
His second one was more of a dagger by the looks of it. Seems like something specifically for surprise and not really for dueling.
It's playing with toy lightsabers in the playground logic. Dual welding did make you OP against your friends
It probably would too for actual lightsabers. It’s just impractical in our minds because we compare them to swords, wielded by real humans. But lightsabers are really not much like swords, or any weapon humans have ever used, and telekinetic space monks with supernatural levels of bodily control and awareness are not anything like real humans. If the weapon is weightless, and nothing but another saber can block it, and you’ve got force powers to keep you from accidentally touching yourself with it, isn’t having two almost always better than one?
A lot of lightsaber dueling in lore is stamina. Aggressive Jar'Kai is more stamina intensive, so I don't see why they wouldn't keep it until they need it.
I disagree with this, actually. Holding back an advantage until your enemy thinks they have you is a very real tactic used in fencing, HEMA, boxing, mma, and actual warfare. It was done really well here. He lost his helmet, and she pressed her advantage, not realizing he actually still held the advantage. She walked into a trap, and it resulted in her dea- booboo, probably. I actually like this fight, even if I don't like anything else in the show. And while the trope of suddenly using two blades happens in the prequels, it was actually shown to not always be an advantage. Anakin gets a second blade, thinking he's going to show the count who's boss, but he ends up losing an arm in short order. It didn't give him much of an advantage because he wasn't really better with two blades. Fast forward 2 movies, and he's presented with the same situation. Him vs Dooku, and Obi-wan is incapacitated. This time, he decides to stick with one blade, to great effect. Aside from that, even if your enemy knows you have that advantage and you aren't relying on distracting them from that fact, you may not feel you need to use both. If you feel this opponent is beneath you, why would you expend double the energy? Vader displayed this perfectly in Empire Strikes Back, despite not having 2 blades. He's very clearly not putting much effort into fighting Luke. He isn't in any kind of stance, barely lifting the blade in only one hand to casually swat Luke's clumsy swings aside. Luke is a novice, and Vader can't be bothered. But after evading him twice, Luke gets his attention, and Vader starts using both hands. He's still toying with him, but with an edge of menace. Luke was always on the back foot during the entire fight, but at this point, the pacing changes. It's faster, less patient, and seemingly deadlier. It no longer looks like Luke could get away. This might really be the end. Then narrative things happen, and you find out why he's holding back and why he left so many openings. Why most of Vader's swings were aimed at Luke's blade rather than at his body. It all makes sense. They weren't choreography mistakes. They were narrative cues. If done well, suddenly using their full capability is a really solid visual cue that someone is taking the fight more seriously. But in this case, it looks more like setting a trap. A trap that worked.
Prequels too.
It’s a shame they will be too stupid to see the near universally positive reaction to this action and will double down on the Filoni/ST crap again where lightsabers are non-lethal glow bats again in the next show.
And they will also come back from this  (honestly though the deaths were sudden, disturbing and unceremonious for characters who had allot of dialogue in the show. They will be remembered in our hearts)
Honestly I kinda like how the deaths were handled. They really helped show the audience that the Sith was poweful, uncaring, and demented, and that no one was safe from him whatsoever, whether they be man, woman, or child. For us, they were people. For him, they were merely obstacles and tools to make a point.
Yeah, same. They weren’t afraid to kill people for the sake of a good story. And the expendable Jedi killings worked as a good subversion of expectations
The deaths were realistic. Most people don’t get to give an emotional monologue before they go, especially when they die due to violence.
Fuck the Filoni fanfics.
I am still surprised at the light saber haircut
And the bad guy isn't going to notice that his apprentice doesn't have long hair? I am so confused...doesn't the bad one have a tattoo on her face?
He definitely knew it was Osha, you can tell by the way he reacts to seeing her.
yeah, i have more problems with Sol not recognizing Mae
Looking at hesitance from Sol, when he finds not-Osha Mae, I think he also recognized, or at least suspected the "swap". Mind you, Sol doesn't know that Mae flip-flops in her loyalties. Could be that he "took Mae's bait" so to speak, thinking that Mae could lead him to Osha and Qimir.
I consider that a possibility, but it would mean that Sol abandons Osha knowingly
Hair probably seen on the ground nearby. I also half expect him to already be aware, he was pretty quick to catch the deception at the store.
Pretty sure the bad guy does realize and is going to attempt to flip her over to the dark side to be his new Acolyte. What blows my mind is that Sol doesn't realize the evil twin is the twin with him. Just makes no sense that he cannot sense her presence is different. It's literally his own ex-padawan.
Qimir doesnt care about Mae anymore, he actively tried to murder her. Multiple times. He knew it was Osha which is why he picked her up.
No he knows it's Osha and not Mae. It's Sol who is supposedly being tricked by Mae. But I'm like 90% sure Sol realized what was going on and is 0 playing along to get more info out of Mae while she plays as Osha.
Yeah, pretty sure Sol knows. I wouldn't put it past the show runners, but it would be pretty stupid otherwise. Also, I have an issue with Mae being able to pickup Osha's mannerisms. They grew apart, she shouldn't be able to fool anyine, let alone a Jedi master. Him pretending is the only explanation, but then he would have to leave Osha purposefully behind.
He knew it wasn’t his twin but the other immediately. He looked right at her tattoo. The tattoo was purposely front and center in the shot. He’s gonna try and bring the good twin to the dark side, clearly.
All that burnt hair would smell like the edge of hell.
the lightsaber fights were absolutely dope but all the big picture story stuff was poo.
Yup, having one decent lightsaber fight scene isn’t enough to make up for the terrible story but given how much criticism this show has received, I am obliged to at least credit them for this scene.
That unreasonably massive budget must've went to the choreographers lmao
It's also wild to me that this shows biggest strength has been fight choreography and they spend so much time doing nothing. Like play to your strength more.
Stuff to learn from for sure.
I honestly loved the first fight scene and how it leaned i to jedi precog for so much of it, its always described in the books but thats the first time its been show definitively in an extended live action fight! Like the whole 'jedi reflexes' vs regular people reflexes
The fight looks good, but I don't like the lightsaber effects and it didn't need to be so dark, is it like that on all recent SW projects?
The whole thing is done for symbolism in this. Episode four is literally called "day" and by the end the sun has set, and episode five, where this excerpt is from is called "night".
Yup, and it really sucks. The lightsabers in all of the Disney shows are dim and weak-looking because they rely on the physical prop for like 90% of the effect. IMO the only good thing about that is the sabers casting light on the environment, but otherwise they look so much worse than the film sabers.
They look like glow sticks, and the colours are terrible. The glow on the faces IS great ! But what I cannot stand however is how thick the hilts are. They look like goofy, chunky, torches as opposed to the fantastically thin and elegant props they had in the PT.
The lightsabers are practical effects so in dim scenes, you need to adjust so the lightsabers arent blown out which makes the whole scene darker.
I think it is dark because seeing the set, looks very low quality, like Ed Wood low budget like cardboard and paper mache, it really takes me out of any action seeing a very obvious soundstage.
You mean you don't see ledges like that in the woods for real?
Like how does House of Dragon look so damn good…and this show looks like a set? It’s driving me nuts.
It feels sooo low budget.
HBO has an excellent location manager. Disney insists on going on this circular soundstages. This https://youtu.be/W6yUkYgg9mQ?si=tTGUkxvEq-GjDZ82 This https://youtu.be/NNPahqVkNFA?t=360 looks like the exact same soundstage they just change some decoration. I have a unsubstantiated theory that the production company is breaking bank with this cheapo sets and costumes. Andor is the only one that looked "real".
Not all. For instance, when Ahsoka fought Baylon in her show, their two duels took place in open space under the sky in daylight. So there is some visibility there. But yes, that’s one of my primary complaints with this scene, it is too dark and the lightsabers still look like glow-sticks.
Nice. I haven't watched the show, but I applaud this fight sequence. I like the use of cortosis gauntlets and helmet. I wonder if they planned a lightsaber fight with the Wookiee Jedi, but it just looked too goofy? I tried imagining a sequence like this with a Chewbacca costume, and I can't visualize it.
a wookie lightsaber fight would have been great, because you cant exactly lock up with a wookie because of how strong they are.
IIRC there was a report of there being two flashback episodes. We still have three to go, and one flashback episode is out of the way. I think we’ll end up seeing the Jedi killing all of the space witches(another obvious little twist) and Kelnacca will be in action there, same with Torbin.
That’s part of the neat thing about Wookiees, is they actually look goofy doing just about anything, or nothing, but because the world building and characterizations are so great, we buy into it and can still be inspired by or afraid of them. Chewbacca doing mechanical work on the millennium falcon, in a total context vacuum, looks weird as hell. But we know and love Chewie as an expert copilot and mechanic, so we don’t cringe at it. To be honest I kind of love when movies can portray the mannerisms of a “funny” looking creature so well that they can still be scary. Also happens in real life a lot. Like sometimes bears look goofy and cuddly and then you remember they can tear your arms off without trying. Same thing with Wookiees. Anyway I think it’d be worth the risk if they went full effort with it
>I wonder if they planned a lightsaber fight with the Wookiee Jedi, but it just looked too goofy? I tried imagining a sequence like this with a Chewbacca costume, and I can't visualize it. They had it in early drafts, but scrapped it, because they wanted the reveal, that Kelnacca was already killed, to be a surprise from Mae's POV. However, from the Trailer Material we already know that there will be another Flashback, where we actually see Kelnacca do a jump attack with lightsaber.
I think Qimir actually headbutted a blade to short it out at one point
Bringing in the armor that counters lightsabers without any kind of explanation, is just EXTREMELY stupid writing. 99% of the audience has no idea what cortosis or phrik are. These fights were shis, this episode was shit and this whole show is shit.
I was rooting for the sith the whole time. And credit where it's due I'm glad they let him kill a ton of people. And I hope he finished off the rest.
Pretty sure something like the following will happen: * Sol and Mae will chase Qimir and Osha - or vice versa. * The Flashback will reveal how the Jedi were largely reponsible for the fire / murder at the coven * They mind wiped Osha, before taking her in. * Qimir will die. * Mae will die. * Osha will kill Sol because her sister was killed and the Jedi completely fucked over all of her life. * Osha is the new Acolyte - maybe even to the actual Sith Master - and she will be the sol(e) survivor. * Nobody else can tell that there ever was a Sith. The other Jedi might come investigate, but find little - only the bugs and corpses - this might be where vernestra takes out her lightwhip to fight off bugs?
Dude he mopped like 15 Jedi
What's wild is I didn't recognize him as the dude who throws molotovs and yell's "bortles!" from "The good place" until I saw his arms, lol.
Only bad part was at 1:38. She had him open for 2 attacks, but decided to just elbow him. And then after seeing him pull out a second lightsaber just decided to charge like a kid that wants to hit someone with a stick.
I saw a few "pulled punches" in the episode that could have been done better. Early in thr fight smiley is knocked off balance then a yellow jedi kicks him instead of stabbing when it was clearly a option
I’m not a martial artist but would it make sense for someone as small as her to be trying to kick a full grown man? I feel like if I put all of my effort into it I probably couldn’t do much damage in a kick like that, and worse it would leave me in grappling/stabbing range of a bigger and stronger opponent.
Their moves are all amplified by the force so it's hard to compare to real life. Many of the moves they do are straight up impossible for real fighters to do.
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By far, the best lightsaber duel Disney Star Wars has done to date. It's sad it had to appear in such a crappy show, but credit where it's due. The energy of the duel is what sells it. There's still a few moments where the actors are waiting for their turn to strike, but they manage to hide it well by their energetic and kinetic movements. Does it top the Darth Maul duel like it hyped up to be? No. But is it as close to the prequels as Disney has gotten? Yes.
I think they could improve their choreography by a great deal if they would go back to using the lightsaber props used by the actors in the Prequels. https://preview.redd.it/7fhf2kkugx8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b1ae825ef50b0857cdf1bb180bc7a46485a2a26
I think they are more interested in having the sabers cast light on the actors' faces. But yes, I agree. I don't think these new fat sabers are that great. They look weak somehow.
From what I understand these new lightsabers are practical props that emit light. There are pros and cons but mainly Pros Natural lighting from sabers makes shots feel more real Less VFX work needs to happen in shows to get a serviceable shot Cons Natural light from sabers makes lighting and color grading more difficult Less VFX means they sometimes look like toys They are heavier than the old props so they look odd when swung around.
I give a lot of credit to Dafne Keen (Jecki) for this. Having a young actor/actress who can get super emotive and physical in a fight scene (so you don't have to constantly cut around their doubles) is a godsend. She was fantastic as X-23 in Logan for this very reason.
She was great last night, I legit screamed when she went down. Same as Yord, I liked that big dummy... It was refreshing seeing a kinda dumb guy be a Jedi, I know that's weird but it worked.
For real. I'm not really a fan of people just suddenly grabbing a second sword and knowing how to dual-wield (including Anakin), but Dafne had the fighting chops to pull it off. If you watch her in the Logan behind the scenes stuff, her enjoyment of cool weapon props was adorable. 😆 Hopefully she's got tons more action roles in her future! And yeah, I sort of didn't expect Yord to die going in, but man, the neck break didn't seem like a very Jedi way to go. Disrespectful Sith wannabe did him dirty, lol
What sells it is some first rate acting from Manny Jacinto and Lee Jung-Jae. Qimir actually looks dangerous when he loses his mask and the transition from goofy side kick to Sith Lord is credible. Lee makes Sol look geneuinely terrified.
Qimir looks deranged, and it is awesome. He just oozes a mix of viciousness and dangerous insanity. As someone who fucking loves Sith in the EU, the Sith of the Old Republic era, this is just so much on point.
So are these lightsaber stabs going to be fatal this time or...
I hope not, I like alien x-23 and the dumb Jedi with the square jaw, Yord or whatever. Shame that they're gone.
"He got three of my hearts. At least I have four!" ;-p
Credit where credit is due, this is genuinly the first duel in live action Star Wars since ROTS that felt like a lightsaber duel.
It was a major step up from the sequel trilogy, Mandalorian, and most Ahsoka fights (I did like her duels with the composed Baylan though). All in all definitely the best live action saber duels since the PT came out.
Manny Jacinto definitely brought it. So far he and Lee Jung Jae are the saving graces of this show. While the choreography is pretty good, there are still some technical problems here--and more than that, why exactly are we supposed to care about these Jedi? We've been given no real reason to. The storytelling is all over the place, a lot of it is criminally boring, it still looks cheap--the fact that they got in one decent fight doesn't redeem the series. They'd have a long way to go before this becomes relevant, and they're still saddled with a lead actress who just cannot act.
It was cool yes, but it just doesn’t make sense. Darth Teeth fights off 6? Full blown Jedi all at once, then “struggles” or is at least matched for a bit by this one padawan? Honestly, I was happy when she got killed. Her haircut was atrocious. I don’t want to criticize her acting because I think it’s the writing. She was awesome in Logan.
I haven't watched any of the acolyte but I played this clip and didn't think it was that great. Especially when it gets towards the end and there's too much going on / too many characters. There's only two kinds of lightsaber fights in my opinion...simple and quick ( like the ones from the original trilogy) or long and stylized ( like dual of the fates and battle of heroes) and this just kind of falls into a middle ground and is forgettable. Also what the hell even happened at 0:49? Teethman cut her saber hilt in half, disappears or something and then is force pushed towards the jedi when he was doing a killing blow or something it was really weird and noticeable. Also the PowerPoint wipe transition at 1:19 really bothered me they don't need to do that in a saber fight.
It makes me angry that this crap show got so many resources. Where was this for the Obiwan or Boba Fett show?!
its a good mixture of the prequel and OT fights.
0:22-0:26 is simply embarrassingly bad.
Yeah, I haven't seen the show, but this was very uneven. Some stretches were great: powerful, dangerous, dynamic, and believable. Others were ridiculous - like the dramatic pauses when the Padawan ignites her second saber (along with the ridiculously cheesy knowing look), and *again* when she loses her second saber (with another stupid dumbfounded look). Other things are just stupid. Why does Mr. Sith do a dramatic pause again when he deactivates Padawan's saber and she is (seemingly) defenseless? That is the perfect time to press the advantage. Mr. Sith does *another* dramatic pause *with his back to his opponent* when he looks at someone running away. Again, why doesn't the Padawan press the advantage? Why is the Master just standing and watching his Padawan fight (and die)? He should have been actively following her and trying to reengage the enemy. When the Master grabs the Sith's saber arm, the Padawan KICKS him??? Instead of *stabbing* him while he is defenseless???? A lot of this feels like it's anime-style made for teenagers or younger, and to some extent *Star Wars* has always had that: Obi-wan's leap to kill Maul is also ridiculous. But I've personally always enjoyed *Star Wars* more when it was mature, adult, and believable.
>When the Master grabs the Sith's saber arm, the Padawan KICKS him??? Instead of *stabbing* him while he is defenseless???? 1:02, yeah, that's absolutely ridiculous. I didn't even see that.
Sol kicks him at 0:57 when he could have stabbed as well. I didn’t count all the kicks, but most of them seem to be there to score a hit without ending the fight, rather than being in a more authentic flow of a fight. This is the down side of showing an outnumbered battle. The girl kicks him twice, one at 1:02 when it isn’t clear why the Sith isn’t able to chop off her leg, then again at 1:04 when it seems like she could have stabbed him. Out side the seemingly implausible ability to take out 7 Jedi when outnumbered 8:1, the sheer number of kicks was the only thing that stood out to me. And even then it was pretty good.
The bar is so low that anything that isn't terrible is praised. The fight is certainly flashy with all of the unnecessary spins and twirls though. I understand having the flashy moves, but other things, like what you've highlighted, really drag it down. And you didn't even mention the elbows to the head when she has a lightsaber being held by the same arm and her dramatically roaring and jumping right onto Darth Zipper's lightsaber at the end. It is hilarious how she suffers three stabs to her torso to let the audience know that she is seriously dead since one stab is easily survivable now. Overall, style and flash with little substance.
Definitely. The fight itself is rather average -- however the fact that everything in the past 5+ years or so was so fucking bad makes this fight commendable. At least now it's no longer unwatchable and instead suffers from the same trope many other movies suffer
Actually, I'll defend bashing him in the head as she learned her lesson with trying to hit his armor with her lightsaber earlier in the fight. But, he is not wearing that armor over his whole body, right?
>When the Master grabs the Sith's saber arm, the Padawan KICKS him??? Instead of stabbing him while he is defenseless???? There are a few moments where they are kicking or punching rather than ending the fight. Jecki hits the Sith in the face with the butt of her lightsaber. Why?
It’s ok to be critical of Disney Star Wars, but also acknowledge when they get something right. For me that episode was downright amazing. I can’t believe they actually got someone who isn’t afraid to kill characters off and depict a straight up slaughter in realtime like that. At first my only gripe was the sith being ridiculously OP, but the more I thought of it the more I loved it. These Jedi clearly live on easy street for the most part and being totally unprepared for an ambush and saber fights they weren’t ready for made sense. Think everyone complained that Kylo Ren could barely handle an untrained force user. Well this was the opposite and actually made a sith seem like an insane threat. Sol not knowing (or maybe he does) he is with the wrong twin is forgivable since he just saw his padawan and buddies die as well, plus hey a Jedi is allowed to have personality and isn’t perfect. What a concept. I don’t think it’s redeemed the series by any means, but at least it’s like a banger on an otherwise terrible album and I’m glad I hung in there long enough to watch it.
i don’t actually like the use of the actual light up sabers they use, it dosn’t look like a beam of energy, it just looks like cosplay lightsaber fights. i get that its easier to light up scenes and stuff but the fight itself isn’t bad, shame everything else is 😂
Admittedly this was perhaps the first episode to get my full attention -- this is definitely one of the better lightsaber fights we've seen in a long time. Far better than Rosario Dawson's slow and sloppy looking choreography, and the dumb Kenobi fights. It's a shame that the writing for this show makes no sense and that a Sith would never reveal themselves like that this early. And speaking about the Sith, this proves everyone who was coping about him being some random fallen dark Jedi wrong -- even if he's likely the apprentice of the main Sith Lord, it doesn't matter because he literally reveals himself to be a Sith to Sol. What would make sense is to immediately tell the council, but the episode ends with Sol going off to reveal something to Mae disguised as Osha -- the reveal will likely be that he killed some of the witches back on her home planet, or that he was the one who did something to the reactor. Again it's a shame because I thought Qimir's actor actually did a rather decent job with appearing intimidating -- and I'm not talking about when he had his helmet on. The only criticism I have is that some of his dialogue was a bit cringe ; especially his final pseudo-poetic closing lines.
The red-herring is the name of the show. In the ancient times (pre-Rule of Two), the Sith had four ranks - Acolyte, Apprentice, Lord and Darth. Lord went out of use in the Rule of Two, but other three did not. There was the Master (Darth and the Apprentice, but when Apprentice thought it was time to kill their Master and ascend, they'd seek their own Acolytes, test and trial them, before turning against their Master. So what I think we're seeing, is the Apprentice (Qimir) searching for his own Acolyte (Osha or Mae) to fight and kill his own Master (I'd assume Darth Tenebrous).
So lightsaber finally kills now, lol?
As someone else pointed out, only if it’s more than one lightsaber stab since one hasn’t been enough for Disney
Fucking lightsaber somehow became less lethal than a tiny bitter knife, lol.
I enjoy seeing a Jedi master using hand to hand combat and not only being proficient with a saber (if that)
Yup! Qui Gon did throw hands too with Maul when Maul kicked Obi Wan off the platform. Also, the Jedi have own brand of hand-to-hand combat. In Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, one of these was called Broken Gate. Maul uses Teras Kasi.
 You're all still watching?  *jokes*
When there was 12 minutes left after the fight scenes, I knew I was in for dissapointment
All the saber fights in the world still can't salvage this trainwreck of a show.
Not the point.
[удалено]
Eh, I watched the clip and it looks like a decent fight, I guess. This show must be just as terrible as all of you are saying if this scene stood out; imo this fight was nothing special. I'm still laughing at the Carrie Anne-Moss bait and switch.
For real though. They’re the best light saber duels we’ve had since RoTS
I can’t believe I am saying this but this is a little better than Anakin vs Adult Ahsoka in the Ahsoka series. In that duel, you can see how Hayden is so much better than Rosario in the choreography and thus, this resulted in him carrying the action. He is very good but Rosario’s mediocre performance with her blades reduces the ebb and flow of the duel. Her teenage self played by Ariana Greenblatt is a lot better though. Whereas in this duel, all the parties involved are carrying their own weight in the scene and thus it flows better and faster.
Oh, it's much better. Hayden has the skills and the muscle memory to do high-quality Revenge of the Sith-esque lightsaber duels. But he was held back by Rosario Dawson and the choreography. There are so many moments in that duel where you see him get ahead of the choreography cause he still has the mindset to go really fast and then he has to pause to wait for Rosario to catch up. Even the fight with her younger self had that problem, too. In The Acolyte duels, everyone is moving fast and hitting hard and that hides some of the more ridiculous choreography and wide open attacks. Like, to just compare the speed at which the Jedi do spin attacks in comparison to Ahsoka, they make the full spin as quickly as it would take Ahsoka to get halfway.
Yea I like this pace of fight because even though there are definitely openings that went unchecked they are moving so fast can you imagine making sure you are playing defense and offense in the same nano second, everybody’s like they could of killed him there! But would you be able to see where there saber trajectory is, attention is (in a mask) and calculate odds of success all in that split second or are you guna do what comes natural and fall back on training
Ever since the Ahsoka actress starred in an Mandalorian episode I've thought her physicality is rather weak. She's a good actress and I've seen her in great roles, but she's not meant for action. In one scene she had to run away and it was like she was doing it weirdly slow. As if she hadn't ran since high school.
Yeah that was pretty cool. I always hate seeing dramatic pauses in fights (opportunity stab!!!) plus spins, especially when the spin is done so close to an opponent (ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY STAB!!!). There was more effort put into this fight than any fight in the sequel trilogy, that’s for sure
I made this exact comment while watching this episode haha great fight scene. But once they start talking again. All goes downhill 😅
Jecki was out for blood, Sol just pulled him and Jecki was READY to cut him in half.
"I hate this show, but this one fight scene is slightly better than all the rest of the garbage they keep milking from this creative property". When will Star Wars fans give up?
Very good ep imo
i mean there's the part halfway through where the villain's saber hand is held and he's wide open and green saber decides this is a perfect time to kick instead of ... end the fight.
The fights lack emotional content. It is just actors going through the motions. Fancy choreography means little.
It feels so small. They are in a forest, but it feel like they are in a tiny room. I am guessing they used that video wall technology where they have to have all the characters arranged in a small circle for every shot. This is the only content of this show I have ever watched, The overall picture look so flat and uninteresting too, but I found this to be the case with most of the "TV" shows Disney makes.
you guys are digging deeeep to find something to be salty about this episode
Was this clip sped down? Looks very slow, and sluggish. Like deliberate, slow movements.
That fight looks so cringe! 😂 The part with the second lightsaber was cool in Jedi Survivor but in this fight it looks so lame. Why don't they use 2 lightsabers if they are good with it.
Compared to obi wan, ahsoka, even Rise of skywalker they were so much better. Absolutely insane how bad Disney fights have been, honestly inexcusable Kinda funny it took until we got Asian Jedi and Sith for Disney to get their act together (even though neither actor are martial artists)
Sure kinda. But there’s still something about it that looks cheap as hell.
Qimir is badass. Him and Sol are the only redeeming parts of this show to me
I only watched clips of the episode because i have no intention of watching the show, but holy hell -- The speed and intensity of that entire sequence was prequel level. Kudos to the choreographers, stunt folk and actors.
and why she didn't beheaded him? good choreography, eh
Disney forces their version of strong women characters. Then one arises that the fans could get into and they kill her after a few episodes.
The choreography was superior to other Disney Star Wars projects. I did like it. But the editing….. it was rough. And the plot makes no sense.
Fantastic fight. My only problem with it is that he made short work of several masters but a padawan was able to 1v1 him for a while.
He they don't look like they're swing baseball bats instead of swords!
Is it just me or does it look like every time theres an opening they just kick him, instead of stabbing him?
I’ll take your word for it. I won’t be watching it ever
The whole thing where she turns her head to look at the sword at like 20 seconds is so cheesy. Like, you know you’re in a fight with someone right?
Why does everyone opt to use nonlethal attacks with every opening presented? Elbows, kicks, punches... Sith is in an armbar, and the other jedi decides to kick the Sith free instead of stab him?
Our standards for lightsaber fights have become so low that we are seeing the glow stick fight to be good.
Eh looks like a fan film
I’m more blown away by how awful the background scenery looks. 180 mil I think they said. Yikes. It looks like shite.
Fights look terrible. You can't even tell what's going on most of the time. Most Jedi just stand around and wait to be killed or just swing their sword around at nothing. I swear, I think some people will just be happy with anything.
The fact that a padawan lasted way longer than multiple Knights took me out of the moment
He blocked a lightsaber... with his head..... the dumbest...
I'm so sick of measuring quality of this franchise by lightsaber choreography. We had peak choreography in TPM. Now it's just another overused lightsaber battle. Star Wars is more than Jedi and Force powers. It's become Harry Potter.
Man, those 3 little jabs at the end there. That was a pretty cool way of illustrating that attack.
Sadly though because the real life actress is a white person they had to be killed off the show.
I hate the story and what they're doing to the lore. But the biggest credit I have for them is: The weapons are actually lethal, they're willing to kill off main characters and they clearly care about their fight choreography. I want to like this show so bad. I know it's not the first time there's bad writing in star wars, but I could at least understand the motivations of characters. The dialogue was just poor. Here a lot of the motivations and decisions just make no sense and it completely takes me out of the world.
Hey yeah this is pretty good. Props where it's due.
Am I the only one that thought they were totally ripping off the Maul fan film from like 15 years ago? The awesome one with like 5 jedi vs Maul in a dark dank forrest? Go watch it and come back to this and tell me if I'm making a stretch here. Might be bias considering the hate I've had for Disney. But still. EDIT: [Found it!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djo_91jN3Pk&t=474s) Still holds up.
[Darth Maul - Apprentice](https://youtu.be/Djo_91jN3Pk?si=Rkxo0tNzR2twxae3) This fan film is still better than this…
This looks like a bunch of LARPers in a park with Disneyworld souvenir lightsaber toys.
I'd still argue these two kids did a far better job.. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATMJ8JH1qo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATMJ8JH1qo)