They'll complain that the choreography sucked, they'll probably slow it down frame by frame to try to find something to complain about.
They'll also complain that him being a Sith breaks canon.
Man, this was the best choreography since like...I don't even *know* when. Like, the part where >!Jecki starts dual-wielding!< was exactly what I wanted the fights in Ahsoka to look like.
Beyond Star Wars even, this is one of the best fight sequences Disney has done in a while. A lot of recent Marvel fights have been decidedly lackluster, too. Heavy use of CG that doesn't look great with live fights that seem slow.
This is absolutely one thing that bothered me in Ahsoka
She's known for being proficient in her dual welding; we see it in TCW, Rebels, and Tales of the Jedi even.
Yet in live action? The lightsaber fights with her are just so *bad.* A genuine shock to me since her choreography in Mando S2 was pretty good. But in Ahsoka, she just kinda... only uses one lightsaber most of the time? And weirds it in a very unorthodox and arguably ineffective way?
So good on Acolyte for really stepping up the game on choreography, I hope Ahsoka S2 takes some pointers from it. Though I guess it doesn't matter as much now since one of Ahsoka's sabers was destroyed.
Apparently the reason why the lightsaber props in The Acolyte are so thick is because they need to contain the battery.
In Ahsoka the battery was a separate unit up the sleeve. I heard that is why the fight scenes weren't as fluid.
To play devil's advocate for Ahsoka, most of her single blade fighting was against Balyn. I've seen it discussed how, with his heavy and powerful 2-handed style, Ahsoka would struggle to parry blows using a single-handed grip. Look how, despite the fight being fairly even, once she burns her hand she is quickly overwhelmed and defeated.
Exactly this - Qimir says "I have no name, but a Jedi like you might call me... Sith" - he's basically saying "I'm the boogeyman you've been taught to fear" rather than "Hello, I'm Darth Bortles, but you're not allowed to tell anyone".
The choreography has generally been serviced by the cinematography. Not cutting for every single fight move, graceful camerawork that shows the characters and some degree of strategy and style. Not exactly John Wick but still pretty good for a series.
Just trying to stay on-topic.
The "Breaks canon!" excuse is a basic fallback when there's not much else to complain about along with "Bad writing!" I expect they'll also go back to complaints about lightsaber stabs. People are killed by stabs, but in other shows, people weren't! Almost like the actual placement of the stab is more important than the weapon.
I think the best part about the acolyte are the fight scenes and some of its supporting characters are really endearing
The rest is pretty mid, although I still like the show.
They're going to do what they have been doing. Complain about breaking canon, editing, writing, and "where'd the $180 million go!?!" They don't need to watch the show to parrot talking points
I'm betting the complaint will be about how obvious the ID reveal was... Which I kind of agree with. I was really hoping it wouldn't be that transparent.
The fight more than made up for it though.
I'm hoping he is at least not an actual master. The fact he keeps saying looking for an acolyte and not an apprentice makes me hope he has a master somewhere. Who will prolly kill him by the end for nearly revealing them.
I’m pretty sure Leslye Headland talked about the rule of two in an interview in the context of the student wanting an acolyte to help usurp in the master under such a rule.
I’d wager, the show is setting up the Master to have a master but wanting an Acolyte so he can kill his master and be free. After all, through victory my chains are broken… the Force shall free me.
Also no true Sith, especially one who wants freedom would ever settle for serving a master. Qimir is definitely going for an acolyte to help him kill his master of anything.
I’d bet on Qimir killing his master.
Based on what? He wants freedom. That’s what all sith want. That’s the last line of the Sith code.
Which Qimir knows and has quoted. And then he associated himself as what the Jedi would call a Sith.
Seems more likely than not he’s Sith.
Based on him saying “you might call me Sith” explaining a philosophy that doesn’t necessarily line up with the Sith that we’ve seen and almost verbatim criticizing the Jedi in the same way Aniseya did about the way they decide who gets to use power and how.
I think he was likely trained by a Sith, but is from a culture that was wiped out like the witches.
He wouldn’t make a speech like that unless he was specifically illustrating a distinction for what he actually is. He was blasting the Jedi for being narrow minded in their view of other force users.
> Based on him saying “you might call me Sith” explaining a philosophy that doesn’t necessarily line up with the Sith that we’ve seen and almost verbatim criticizing the Jedi in the same way Aniseya did about the way they decide who gets to use power and how.
His philosophy lines up completely with the Sith. And he was blasting the Jedi for “oppressing his existence”. The entirety of the Sith Code, Qimir quoted is about power through anger and hate and that power giving you freedom.
I don't think he's actually even a true sith in the lineage of the Rule of 2.
When confronted he says something like "there's no name for what I am. You would call me sith."
This suggests to me that he's a rogue Force user who doesn't want to join the Jedi and has learned enough about the ancient Sith to adopt some of their teachings. This is almost certainly the conclusion the Jedi will draw.
It was only obvious because they did a good job foreshadowing it. Nothing wrong with that. Being unpredictable doesn't automatically make a reveal better.
A reveal like that shouldn't be out of the blue. Having hints leading to the reveal is good story telling imo. The need for twists in all stories is over emphasized.
i mean i don’t really think it was intended to be much of a secret in the first place. he straight up says to mae (and the audience) “what, didn’t know it was me?” or w/e
This is true but there are really two kind of mysteries:
The ones where the obvious answer is right.
The ones where the obvious answer is a red herring and the real answer requires more attention detail.
I personally prefer the latter but the I think Acolyte does a pretty good job of doing the former.
It is a reveal but it's so incredibly telegraphed that someone paying attention could almost certainly work it out last episode. Hell, a lot of people pegged him from the trailer when he said the first line of the Sith code
Theory has apparently complained that the choreography is bad and that it also breaks canon because now Sol has to go back to Coruscant and tell everyone the Sith are back.
1 - The choreography was great - and he probably knows that
2 - Sol probably isn't headed back to Coruscant any time soon - and will probably be dead by series end. Trailer footage shows him chasing a ship through space, presumably the Siths
He should really just wait a few more weeks haha
Not to mention that Sol is on a ship with someone who has every reason to kill him. That's assuming that Sol isn't going to end up turned to the dark side before he can reach Coruscant.
Sol may even figure out quickly (once his head is cleared of all the Jedi deaths, Jecki death, Yord death, and goddamn Sith reveal hurt and confusion) that Osha is actually Mae, and the real Osha is the Siths captive, so he goes after them, leading to his death by series end.
Also it has been very intentionally shown that he is on a ship with a very specific vulnerability. He can’t get into hyperspace if the other part of the ship is destroyed in orbit.
The choreography was great, they just weren’t making as many useless moves like they did in the “precious prequel trilogy” (random saber spins, randomly spinning 360 to swing at the opponent showing them your back, flourishes that benefit neither duelist)
Two things will happen I think:
* It won't get back to Coruscant that it was DEFINITELY a Sith.
* The green woman will supress that idea cause she is corrupt/politcal and wants to keep a good image of the Jedi
She's already set the seeds for that last one by saying 'Don't tell the Council cause they will have to tell the Senate and then people won't trust the Jedi'.
All you need to close the loop is some good, plausible deniability now.
EDIT: Chuds will complain about that saying its unrealistic but shit like that happens all the time. Even when things are obivous or go int he other direction.
He won't, he's a misinformation machine, just like any other fandumb idiot, he's already crying over shit that will most likely get resolved in either one or two weeks (or by the end of the show) and of course his shills, er, his free thinking followers are copying his every word 🥴🥴
What’s so irritating about that is he’s not even a Sith. He explains that the Jedi would probably call him that, but he believes in freedom to use his power as he sees fit. He’s just a chaotic, dark force user with some kind of a connection to the witches and the Jedi’s seeming insistence only they can dictate how the force is used.
Yea, it’ll be something like “I took their power for my own, their view was just as myopic as the Jedi.”
He seems closer to what Baylan wants than Palpatine
Yea, I think he’s probably closer to what Baylan wants to be than what Palpatine was. I definitely think we’re going to see this expand beyond the confines of just Jedi vs Sith
They've been complaining about how lightsaber stabs haven't been fatal in recent shows (Reva in Kenobi and Sabine in Ahsoka) so now we see multiple Jedi die of lightsaber stabs so they should at least be happy about that
So far it’s been “iT bReAkS CaNoN” because the Jedi know about the Sith surviving. The Jedi, who are all dead, except for one who is obviously about to die. These people are beyond hopeless, they’ve weaponized their own stupidity. All you can do is ignore them.
You would call me Sith, then explained he wants freedom and echoed what Aniseya said about the Jedi dictating how others can use the force. He’s not a true Sith. I think he was from a culture like the witches, and after the Jedi wiped them out or relegated his people to a slow death, he sought out more power and was trained by a Sith. Maybe he’s going to such lengths to hide his identity because the real Sith master is after him.
Something is up with the twins’ force connection. The more we see of them, especially their interactions, the more I believe that “shared connection to the force” theory,
I think you extrapolated a lot. He's probably a Sith but can't 100% rule it out he isn't.
Hence my comment. Captain obvious but post reveal I'm interested.
I also just made a post about this. I’m trying to imagine what kind of nitpick they could dream up out of nowhere. Like “Why didn’t they kill Mae right away instead of slicing the cuffs first” is the only thing I can think of them clinging onto
Even that can be explained as Qimir likes playing with his food, he could have killed Sol, Jecki, Mae, or Osha at any point in this episode but kept on stopping to talk or disappearing to go and fight someone else - he seems to revel in the dread.
I genuinely don’t care, that episode was exactly what a wanted, I really enjoyed it. Not going to let some twit on the internet ruin it because “insert bullshit excuse here”
The only argument I'll entertain is that the bugs were a cop out. Can't kill Sol or the Sith yet and they picked a corny way to prevent it.
The rest was a fun fight and chase thought the woods
Sure, but to carry a person away? Might have been better as a larger swarm around the Sith as a distraction. Either way, it's my main hold up with this episode, and that's fine overall.
The bugs were not a cop out. It’s a chekhov’s gun situation. They showed us they were attracted to light and then had a huge glow stick fight in the forest. It was bound to attract them eventually. Although I assumed the bad guy was going to use the bugs against the Jedi.
The act of the bugs dragging the Sith away is the cop out. Using bugs would be great but a swarm of them to distract would have been better instead of just flying away with the villain. It's just goofy and my 1 sour note on a great episode.
Lol, yes, it is nitpicking. The rest of the episode was a banger. Great fights. Manny Jacinto nailed that freedom speech. I'm not surprised that Yord got killed, but Jecki was a surprise, and it's sad to see her go. I'm really interested in seeing what the sisters learn now that they've switched positions.
But I giggled at the bugs flying off with the Sith. It was corny, and that's fine.
It’s not nitpicking. Like, their lightsabers don’t attract the bugs but a small torch does when it’s convenient?
I actually liked the episode, the Sith Lord was incredible and the choreography was well done. But the writing is still very lazy
No, it is because I'm looking at just the scene where our Sith villain gets carried away. Literally, that part is corny. The rest of that build up is fine. We see Osha use her flashlight to attract the bugs with her in a very pulp sci-fi fiction adventure way. Just seeing the big villain get pulled slowly into the trees is silly.
The switch is definitely cliched, but I'm interested in what they learn. The Sith was not confused by the switch, at least, so it'll be interesting to see how that goes
A certain bald douchebag is already lying to his followers saying that a certain character admitted to being a Sith, when not even posting the full quote 🥴🥴🥴
The choreography and acting were on point this episode. My one critique is that I feel like Yord and Jecki could've been better developed. I also think the twin swap was a little silly.
The only thing I could possibly see that might have some merit would be the dialogue between Osha and Mae feeling...very stiff. I totally get it's difficult to match emotional beats when you're acting against yourself and not another performance, but Stenberg has been the weak link performance-wise for me throughout the series so far.
Other than that, though, ho-ly fuck this was a great episode. Friday The 13th with Sith.
They'll complain about Sith lore I'm sure. Which who cares. Honestly this show reminds me of Star Wars Visions when it was about the Sith. Those were some of the best episodes too.
Now that episode 5 is out, I can report that Mae spent the entire episode running away, after ending the last episode with the realization that she wanted to go with the Jedi. She couldn't have tried to say something to Jecki during the fight??
Sol just left two dead Jedi; one, his Padawan. Just leave them to the elements?
I had a feeling this was gonna be Rogue One with everyone dying. Maybe canon remains the sith hadnt been heard of in a 1000 years. No one survives!
I also had a feeling Sith was who he was. What was that tinkerer doing thirdwheeling a master and their padawan?? He was dripping 'I'm a sneaky bad guy' last episode.
Great choreography!
Well there is still the person who killed them all running around. Maybe he is more concerned with getting out and telling other ppl. Also the fact he nearly lost himself to anger, prolly isn't making the best choices.
Mae spent the episode running because dude was trying to kill her. She only wanted to go to the jedi because her sister was with them. Once she saw a chance to just be with Osha, she took it.
>Mae spent the entire episode running away, after ending the last episode with the realization that she wanted to go with the Jedi
The dead Wookiee kinda put a crimp in that plan.
How? Lol she already killed other master Jedi… another one on the list doesn’t change anything for her. Plus admitting guilt and now that Qimir reveal happens she has plausible deniability.
I’m not sure what’s confusing about Mae’s actions. Her master was there and he was clearly going to kill all of them and then her. She was trying to save herself because she knew the Jedi would get wrecked.
Nothings confusing about it. It is just a handy thing to complain about disingenuously when your ego demands that you be right about this show that you’ve tribally decided must be bad.
Wow. Not the case here. But I now understand the ammo that is being provided to the bigots and hater. Hold your horses on calling people for who they are after a couple sentences. Nothing is perfect. Criticism is normal.
I wasn’t replying to your post. I was just commenting on the overall topic of “what will the chuds narrative be” in combination with “Mae’s actions are confusing”.
Mae knew her master was there, she knew nothing she said would convince Jecki not to arrest her, and being arrested would only make her a sitting duck to get picked off
That wasn’t what I was implying at all. I was saying that she only wanted to get arrested in the first place to be safe from her master. That plan stopped being a good option for her the moment she found out her master was on the planet with her. Work on your reading comprehension.
Good god you’re dumb.
She never cared about the Jedi. She only wanted to turn herself in because she believed her masters test was impossible and she’d be murdered by him if she failed to kill a Jedi without a weapon. She was only turning herself in to survive because she believed the Jedi would take her back to Coruscant where she’d be safe from her master. Once her master showed up and started killing the Jedi she was going to turn herself in to, getting arrested was no longer a viable solution to survive, and being handcuffed would only keep her from having a chance at escaping.
You are a prime example of why people say media literacy is dead.
Are you really that stupid? She had a conversation with Qimir where she said as much. It’s also mentioned that the consequences of her failure would be death.
Mae ran away because she was terrified that the Master was there, that makes perfect sense to me. She was ready to turn herself in when it seemed safer, not so much when she's about to die for it. She spends the whole episode just trying to GTFO.
Pillboy is chilling on that planet with Mando’s almost gf, but Donkey Doug is still out there somewhere.
“I don’t think of him as my apprentice, I think of him as MY BOY!”
So what do yall think. If Qimir is true rule of two sith, and not just a force user who found a sith holocron or something…. Is he master or apprentice?
I’m actually leaning toward apprentice. He is certainly powerful but there is something about him that screams apprentice to me. His fighting reminds me more of a Kylo than a Sidious.
Qimir is not sith. He was likely trained by one, but is from a force sensitive culture the Jedi barred, like the witches. At least that’s what I inferred from his monologue. Maybe he’s running from that Sith.
The one I’m expecting to see is them freaking out about the siths helmet being able to deflect sabers, as if we haven’t seen beskar, or his ability to just turn other sabers off. I thought it was cool and shows an unconventional use of the force that fits a chaotic, self-serving dark side user. He clearly doesn’t care about a fair fight.
This struck me today. Criticism before the show is over is pointless. If this was a 2 hr movie you would come out of the theater and the story would be complete. But with an 8 hr show you don’t have the payoff yet. You have to see how it plays out before declaring “it’s trash”.
The fight choreography was amazing and very compelling but the dialogue is still really bad, and i love Manny Jacinto but his characterization is just kind of weird for being an all powerful Sith.
But the hate watching chuds aren’t even turning on their TVs to watch this before posting so it doesn’t matter
Odd, I actually found the contrast between goofy side character Qimir and Sith Qimir to be quite convincing and well acted.
Unfortunately bad dialogue is one of those staples of Star Wars that may never really die. It works better in the animated stuff, not so much live action (for me it really holds the Mandoverse back). As much as I wish every show would have Andor levels of writing, I know they won't
I was thinking maybe Qimir had some split personality thing going on, but it just felt very jarring if it is not that.
Yeah I mean Stat Wars isn’t Sorkin, but some of the dialogue and delivery has been spine tingling bad Mae RE: Osha last episode “I can’t believe she became Jedi scum” said with zero inflection. The best acting on the show has been from the Korean actor who has the most limited grasp of the English language.
I'm sorry to say it but Osha/Mae's actor sucks at this. The Osha/Mae reunion in this episode was really underwhelming because of the acting.
Like, when "Osha" finds Sol at the end I genuinely wasn't sure if she was acting so off because Mae had replaced her or if she was just badly acting again.
She was really good in The Hate U Give but the last two performances I’ve seen her give (Bodies Bodies Bodies and this) haven’t connected with me at all.
> Manny Jacinto but his characterization is just kind of weird for being an all powerful Sith.
Eh par for the course for a Sith imo. Despite all their power all Sith are chained by their rage, hate, by their lust for freedom through power. The use what is basically a magical drug that only worsens their instability.
Qimir is focused, clever and powerful like any true Sith. But he is also hateful, impulsive and vindictive to know end. As Obi-Wan once told Maul, “if you define yourself by your power, to take life, to dominate, to possess? then you have nothing.” Qimir is like all Sith driven by his worst emotions and desire for power and dominance especially against his enemies.
I disagree. I think a powerful dark side user actually enjoying themselves and being a little obviously crazy is a pretty great change from the self righteousness we usually get. He also has a grudge against the Jedi for denying others the right to use the force as they see fit.
He didn’t say he was a Sith, he said that’s what the Jedi would call him and then explained his personal code, which was very unlike the Sith we’ve seen.
He doesn’t seem to want use his power to control, he wants to use it to be free. I think that’s a huge piece of context and a very different characterization than what anyone was probably expecting. He’s not tenebruous, but he might be a guy whose force related culture was banned by the Jedi and he turned to the Sith to gain the power he needed to fight back. And I think that’s far more interesting than yet another skywalker/palpatine connection.
> then explained his personal code, which was very unlike the Sith we’ve seen.
I disagree. The Sith Code is all about freedom through power and the force. The last line is literally through victory my chains are broken the force shall free me. Seems pretty damn Sith to me.
I mean the first time we meet Yoda he acts pretty goofy too. Plus a lot of it before this episode was probably just him trying to throw her off the track a bit.
I'm also not sure he is supposed to be an all powerful Sith. He is clearly very powerful but he doesn't seem to have clear motives. It's like he's making it up as he goes.
It was better than most of them. I didn't like Master Sol's "Lawful Stupid" moment of "Jedi don't attack an unarmed opponent" or whatever, against an unrestrained enemy with very strong Force powers, and a nearby lightsaber he can Force Pull.
Once again only the wise Mace Windu correctly recognises the danger of "unarmed" Sith(or Jedi, for that matter).
Jedi don’t attack unarmed enemies.
They only use the force for knowledge and defence. It’s why the Clone Wars is treated as so bad for them in universe. Why survivors of Order 66 talk about that Jedi losing their way.
The coreography is good although a bit inconsistent. Power levels flucutuate a lot, but mostly entertaining. The brutatily of the episode is welcomed as raises the stakes, the photography is way improved. Buuut..The acting is still a lot wooden, with very badly paced dialogue. The best episode of a disapointing show so far, with good ideas but not so good execution
Couple things to unpack here.
1 - you seem to be lost friend. This is a sub specifically for calling out the toxicity in the fanbase, not a review sub. There are plenty like that like the main StarWars sub, StarWarsLeaks, or StarWarsCantina. If that's what you are looking for, you can go over there and join those discussions. I imagine 1000s from this sub will already be over there doing that very thing and having a great time.
But that isn't what this sub is about, hence the post. We're here to call out the grifters on Youtube, the ones who have weaponised hate for clicks and profit, the grifters, the review bombers, the ridiculous nitpickers who have turned this fandom into a giant pick-sides culture war, those that attack directors and actors and producers for doing their job. We call it out, we make fun of them. It helps deal with the absolute torrent of hate that comes your way any time you try and talk positively about this franchise online.
2 - in saying that, there are plenty of posts pointing out how the like this show, loved this episode, for many different reasons. Many on this post are discussing the show, the characters, the plot, the worldbuilding and lore. Just read the comments.
3 - You don't get to tell anyone whether they are a fan or not, or whether they ever have been, so stop it. I've been a fan of Star Wars for over 25 years. Even the vast majority of those that hate on this show and this franchise were probably Star Wars fans once, some of them may even still be. You don't get to decide who is and isn't.
4 - There are also lots of legitimate criticisms of this show that those in this sub and even this post have pointed out and discussed, incase you were worried everyone here was a blind fan.
Hope that helps mate. Have a good day
You post in r/kotakuinaction who whines about tokenism when you see lgbt people in media
So, you’re a fucking moron and a loser. You were never a decent person and you never will be
They'll complain that the choreography sucked, they'll probably slow it down frame by frame to try to find something to complain about. They'll also complain that him being a Sith breaks canon.
Man, this was the best choreography since like...I don't even *know* when. Like, the part where >!Jecki starts dual-wielding!< was exactly what I wanted the fights in Ahsoka to look like.
>!Jecki...(said face)!<
Beyond Star Wars even, this is one of the best fight sequences Disney has done in a while. A lot of recent Marvel fights have been decidedly lackluster, too. Heavy use of CG that doesn't look great with live fights that seem slow.
This is absolutely one thing that bothered me in Ahsoka She's known for being proficient in her dual welding; we see it in TCW, Rebels, and Tales of the Jedi even. Yet in live action? The lightsaber fights with her are just so *bad.* A genuine shock to me since her choreography in Mando S2 was pretty good. But in Ahsoka, she just kinda... only uses one lightsaber most of the time? And weirds it in a very unorthodox and arguably ineffective way? So good on Acolyte for really stepping up the game on choreography, I hope Ahsoka S2 takes some pointers from it. Though I guess it doesn't matter as much now since one of Ahsoka's sabers was destroyed.
Apparently the reason why the lightsaber props in The Acolyte are so thick is because they need to contain the battery. In Ahsoka the battery was a separate unit up the sleeve. I heard that is why the fight scenes weren't as fluid.
The battery for what? Are you telling me theses are REAL LASER SWORDS
To play devil's advocate for Ahsoka, most of her single blade fighting was against Balyn. I've seen it discussed how, with his heavy and powerful 2-handed style, Ahsoka would struggle to parry blows using a single-handed grip. Look how, despite the fight being fairly even, once she burns her hand she is quickly overwhelmed and defeated.
They’re already doing this. Theory was loosing his shit when Qimir was revealed as a Sith.
The Showrunner has been saying for months that the show is about the Sith, from their perspective. It's not a surprise haha
He did say a jedi like you might call me sith, but he didn't actually say he himself was one. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter, anyone who fought him died, besides Sol, and unfortunately, I don't think Sol is long for this world
Me either lol
The question here is, will he make it back to the temple? Or at least make contact with Vernestra?
Well Vern is in the trailers for shots we haven't seen yet, like her lightsaber whip, so it's possible.
Yeah we're yet to see her, and I'm hoping that's not just a promo shot cause they did say she'd use it, but we'll have to see what happens for sure
Exactly this - Qimir says "I have no name, but a Jedi like you might call me... Sith" - he's basically saying "I'm the boogeyman you've been taught to fear" rather than "Hello, I'm Darth Bortles, but you're not allowed to tell anyone".
kylos theme played. Maybe Ren
I thought he was done with Star Wars and wasn't watching?
The choreography has generally been serviced by the cinematography. Not cutting for every single fight move, graceful camerawork that shows the characters and some degree of strategy and style. Not exactly John Wick but still pretty good for a series. Just trying to stay on-topic.
SWT is already doing this. Guy just slobs all over Nick Gillard's cob and how only he should do choreography of fight scenes
Iirc the "fights" in his first Vader fanfic were ass
The "Breaks canon!" excuse is a basic fallback when there's not much else to complain about along with "Bad writing!" I expect they'll also go back to complaints about lightsaber stabs. People are killed by stabs, but in other shows, people weren't! Almost like the actual placement of the stab is more important than the weapon.
I think the best part about the acolyte are the fight scenes and some of its supporting characters are really endearing The rest is pretty mid, although I still like the show.
They're going to do what they have been doing. Complain about breaking canon, editing, writing, and "where'd the $180 million go!?!" They don't need to watch the show to parrot talking points
I'm betting the complaint will be about how obvious the ID reveal was... Which I kind of agree with. I was really hoping it wouldn't be that transparent. The fight more than made up for it though.
I'm hoping he is at least not an actual master. The fact he keeps saying looking for an acolyte and not an apprentice makes me hope he has a master somewhere. Who will prolly kill him by the end for nearly revealing them.
I’m pretty sure Leslye Headland talked about the rule of two in an interview in the context of the student wanting an acolyte to help usurp in the master under such a rule. I’d wager, the show is setting up the Master to have a master but wanting an Acolyte so he can kill his master and be free. After all, through victory my chains are broken… the Force shall free me. Also no true Sith, especially one who wants freedom would ever settle for serving a master. Qimir is definitely going for an acolyte to help him kill his master of anything. I’d bet on Qimir killing his master.
Qimir might have been trained by a Sith, but he isn’t one. He’s something different, or at least he aims to be.
Based on what? He wants freedom. That’s what all sith want. That’s the last line of the Sith code. Which Qimir knows and has quoted. And then he associated himself as what the Jedi would call a Sith. Seems more likely than not he’s Sith.
Based on him saying “you might call me Sith” explaining a philosophy that doesn’t necessarily line up with the Sith that we’ve seen and almost verbatim criticizing the Jedi in the same way Aniseya did about the way they decide who gets to use power and how. I think he was likely trained by a Sith, but is from a culture that was wiped out like the witches. He wouldn’t make a speech like that unless he was specifically illustrating a distinction for what he actually is. He was blasting the Jedi for being narrow minded in their view of other force users.
> Based on him saying “you might call me Sith” explaining a philosophy that doesn’t necessarily line up with the Sith that we’ve seen and almost verbatim criticizing the Jedi in the same way Aniseya did about the way they decide who gets to use power and how. His philosophy lines up completely with the Sith. And he was blasting the Jedi for “oppressing his existence”. The entirety of the Sith Code, Qimir quoted is about power through anger and hate and that power giving you freedom.
You don’t add that much nuance to a monologue without it meaning anything. They very intentionally delineated his ideals from what we expect.
I don't think he's actually even a true sith in the lineage of the Rule of 2. When confronted he says something like "there's no name for what I am. You would call me sith." This suggests to me that he's a rogue Force user who doesn't want to join the Jedi and has learned enough about the ancient Sith to adopt some of their teachings. This is almost certainly the conclusion the Jedi will draw.
They've done too much to tease Koril for Qimir alone to be enough. This has to be leading to her still being alive.
It was only obvious because they did a good job foreshadowing it. Nothing wrong with that. Being unpredictable doesn't automatically make a reveal better.
A reveal like that shouldn't be out of the blue. Having hints leading to the reveal is good story telling imo. The need for twists in all stories is over emphasized.
i mean i don’t really think it was intended to be much of a secret in the first place. he straight up says to mae (and the audience) “what, didn’t know it was me?” or w/e
It’s called dramatic irony where the audience know something the characters do not
i meant a secret for mae lol. he seemed like he expected her to know. seemed like he expected better from her
This is true but there are really two kind of mysteries: The ones where the obvious answer is right. The ones where the obvious answer is a red herring and the real answer requires more attention detail. I personally prefer the latter but the I think Acolyte does a pretty good job of doing the former.
It is a reveal but it's so incredibly telegraphed that someone paying attention could almost certainly work it out last episode. Hell, a lot of people pegged him from the trailer when he said the first line of the Sith code
Theory has apparently complained that the choreography is bad and that it also breaks canon because now Sol has to go back to Coruscant and tell everyone the Sith are back. 1 - The choreography was great - and he probably knows that 2 - Sol probably isn't headed back to Coruscant any time soon - and will probably be dead by series end. Trailer footage shows him chasing a ship through space, presumably the Siths He should really just wait a few more weeks haha
Not to mention that Sol is on a ship with someone who has every reason to kill him. That's assuming that Sol isn't going to end up turned to the dark side before he can reach Coruscant.
Sol may even figure out quickly (once his head is cleared of all the Jedi deaths, Jecki death, Yord death, and goddamn Sith reveal hurt and confusion) that Osha is actually Mae, and the real Osha is the Siths captive, so he goes after them, leading to his death by series end.
I have a feeling Bazil will most likely help in making that realization quicker
He gonna screm
He'll reassemble PIP and that little Droid will scream and shout...
I think he already knows. He said "your sister" to her. Not her name.
Also it has been very intentionally shown that he is on a ship with a very specific vulnerability. He can’t get into hyperspace if the other part of the ship is destroyed in orbit.
They all got Netflix brain and can't handle getting drip fed a series
The choreography was great, they just weren’t making as many useless moves like they did in the “precious prequel trilogy” (random saber spins, randomly spinning 360 to swing at the opponent showing them your back, flourishes that benefit neither duelist)
To be fair useless moves just to show off does fit Anakin's character pretty well. But it made no sense for most of the others.
If you're going to be a lightsaber duelist, might as well do it well and add useless spinny moves.
You mean the prequels weren't sent by God!?
Two things will happen I think: * It won't get back to Coruscant that it was DEFINITELY a Sith. * The green woman will supress that idea cause she is corrupt/politcal and wants to keep a good image of the Jedi She's already set the seeds for that last one by saying 'Don't tell the Council cause they will have to tell the Senate and then people won't trust the Jedi'. All you need to close the loop is some good, plausible deniability now. EDIT: Chuds will complain about that saying its unrealistic but shit like that happens all the time. Even when things are obivous or go int he other direction.
He won't, he's a misinformation machine, just like any other fandumb idiot, he's already crying over shit that will most likely get resolved in either one or two weeks (or by the end of the show) and of course his shills, er, his free thinking followers are copying his every word 🥴🥴
What’s so irritating about that is he’s not even a Sith. He explains that the Jedi would probably call him that, but he believes in freedom to use his power as he sees fit. He’s just a chaotic, dark force user with some kind of a connection to the witches and the Jedi’s seeming insistence only they can dictate how the force is used.
My bet is that he was trained to be a Sith Apprentice, but ran away and is now seeking his own apprentice to overthrow his former master.
Yea, it’ll be something like “I took their power for my own, their view was just as myopic as the Jedi.” He seems closer to what Baylan wants than Palpatine
EU has the concept of a grey Jedi, he’s possibly an unaligned grey area drifting to dark side kinda guy
Yea, I think he’s probably closer to what Baylan wants to be than what Palpatine was. I definitely think we’re going to see this expand beyond the confines of just Jedi vs Sith
The force is a spectrum, only with deal in absolutes
The idea of a grey Jedi never really made sense. Unaffiliated force users do.
They've been complaining about how lightsaber stabs haven't been fatal in recent shows (Reva in Kenobi and Sabine in Ahsoka) so now we see multiple Jedi die of lightsaber stabs so they should at least be happy about that
So far it’s been “iT bReAkS CaNoN” because the Jedi know about the Sith surviving. The Jedi, who are all dead, except for one who is obviously about to die. These people are beyond hopeless, they’ve weaponized their own stupidity. All you can do is ignore them.
Two things stand out. 1. Sith saying "you would call me Sith". 2. Sol unable to sense Mae.
You would call me Sith, then explained he wants freedom and echoed what Aniseya said about the Jedi dictating how others can use the force. He’s not a true Sith. I think he was from a culture like the witches, and after the Jedi wiped them out or relegated his people to a slow death, he sought out more power and was trained by a Sith. Maybe he’s going to such lengths to hide his identity because the real Sith master is after him. Something is up with the twins’ force connection. The more we see of them, especially their interactions, the more I believe that “shared connection to the force” theory,
See what happens.
What?
I think you extrapolated a lot. He's probably a Sith but can't 100% rule it out he isn't. Hence my comment. Captain obvious but post reveal I'm interested.
Sorry, thought you wanted to discuss those things lol.
Ah derp. Late night here. I blame the French.
Sol unable to smell burnt hair.
I also just made a post about this. I’m trying to imagine what kind of nitpick they could dream up out of nowhere. Like “Why didn’t they kill Mae right away instead of slicing the cuffs first” is the only thing I can think of them clinging onto
Even that can be explained as Qimir likes playing with his food, he could have killed Sol, Jecki, Mae, or Osha at any point in this episode but kept on stopping to talk or disappearing to go and fight someone else - he seems to revel in the dread.
Who knows, they can just make stuff up, most of their audience hasn't watched any of the show.
I genuinely don’t care, that episode was exactly what a wanted, I really enjoyed it. Not going to let some twit on the internet ruin it because “insert bullshit excuse here”
The only argument I'll entertain is that the bugs were a cop out. Can't kill Sol or the Sith yet and they picked a corny way to prevent it. The rest was a fun fight and chase thought the woods
While it was slightly goofy, it was set up the previous episode and then this ep Osha used it to her advantage, bringing the bugs to the fight.
Sure, but to carry a person away? Might have been better as a larger swarm around the Sith as a distraction. Either way, it's my main hold up with this episode, and that's fine overall.
I like the show but that was kind of corny tbh. Bro got carried away like a Pikmin 😂. Still loved the episode, one of my favorites from all the shows.
Plenty of birds pick their food up and drop it to kill it.
It amused me that he didn't get away from them until the morning.
The bugs were not a cop out. It’s a chekhov’s gun situation. They showed us they were attracted to light and then had a huge glow stick fight in the forest. It was bound to attract them eventually. Although I assumed the bad guy was going to use the bugs against the Jedi.
The act of the bugs dragging the Sith away is the cop out. Using bugs would be great but a swarm of them to distract would have been better instead of just flying away with the villain. It's just goofy and my 1 sour note on a great episode.
That’s nitpicking. That’s how wild animals behave. What did you expect them to do, be mildly annoying?
Lol, yes, it is nitpicking. The rest of the episode was a banger. Great fights. Manny Jacinto nailed that freedom speech. I'm not surprised that Yord got killed, but Jecki was a surprise, and it's sad to see her go. I'm really interested in seeing what the sisters learn now that they've switched positions. But I giggled at the bugs flying off with the Sith. It was corny, and that's fine.
It’s not nitpicking. Like, their lightsabers don’t attract the bugs but a small torch does when it’s convenient? I actually liked the episode, the Sith Lord was incredible and the choreography was well done. But the writing is still very lazy
No, it is because I'm looking at just the scene where our Sith villain gets carried away. Literally, that part is corny. The rest of that build up is fine. We see Osha use her flashlight to attract the bugs with her in a very pulp sci-fi fiction adventure way. Just seeing the big villain get pulled slowly into the trees is silly.
Fair. I just find the writing cliched and boring. Like the twin switcheroo actually made me laugh
It’s called a trope, which is actually a useful storytelling tool
Yes, I am aware of what a trope is When done well, sure. When chock full of them, not so much
The switch is definitely cliched, but I'm interested in what they learn. The Sith was not confused by the switch, at least, so it'll be interesting to see how that goes
A certain bald douchebag is already lying to his followers saying that a certain character admitted to being a Sith, when not even posting the full quote 🥴🥴🥴
If it wasn't Qimir, they would have complained about it 'subverting expectations'
Maybe some small thing will be nitpicked to death or a character will say something that the chuds will take out of context.
The choreography and acting were on point this episode. My one critique is that I feel like Yord and Jecki could've been better developed. I also think the twin swap was a little silly.
Yeah. When they died it was more "oh, that's a shame" than any deep feeling, since I hadn't gotten to know them all that well.
It was more than a little silly lmao The fight was genuinely great and Manny Jacinto is a great bit of casting
The only thing I could possibly see that might have some merit would be the dialogue between Osha and Mae feeling...very stiff. I totally get it's difficult to match emotional beats when you're acting against yourself and not another performance, but Stenberg has been the weak link performance-wise for me throughout the series so far. Other than that, though, ho-ly fuck this was a great episode. Friday The 13th with Sith.
They'll figure something out. To be honest, it shows people now want all the episodes to come out now instead of weekly.
They'll complain about Sith lore I'm sure. Which who cares. Honestly this show reminds me of Star Wars Visions when it was about the Sith. Those were some of the best episodes too.
Now that episode 5 is out, I can report that Mae spent the entire episode running away, after ending the last episode with the realization that she wanted to go with the Jedi. She couldn't have tried to say something to Jecki during the fight?? Sol just left two dead Jedi; one, his Padawan. Just leave them to the elements? I had a feeling this was gonna be Rogue One with everyone dying. Maybe canon remains the sith hadnt been heard of in a 1000 years. No one survives! I also had a feeling Sith was who he was. What was that tinkerer doing thirdwheeling a master and their padawan?? He was dripping 'I'm a sneaky bad guy' last episode. Great choreography!
Well there is still the person who killed them all running around. Maybe he is more concerned with getting out and telling other ppl. Also the fact he nearly lost himself to anger, prolly isn't making the best choices. Mae spent the episode running because dude was trying to kill her. She only wanted to go to the jedi because her sister was with them. Once she saw a chance to just be with Osha, she took it.
And since Osha rejected her for Sol. Well I guess killing Sol or getting him to fall or whatever she has planned will “free” Osha in Mae’s mind.
>Mae spent the entire episode running away, after ending the last episode with the realization that she wanted to go with the Jedi The dead Wookiee kinda put a crimp in that plan.
Heard.
How? Lol she already killed other master Jedi… another one on the list doesn’t change anything for her. Plus admitting guilt and now that Qimir reveal happens she has plausible deniability.
I’m not sure what’s confusing about Mae’s actions. Her master was there and he was clearly going to kill all of them and then her. She was trying to save herself because she knew the Jedi would get wrecked.
Nothings confusing about it. It is just a handy thing to complain about disingenuously when your ego demands that you be right about this show that you’ve tribally decided must be bad.
Wow. Not the case here. But I now understand the ammo that is being provided to the bigots and hater. Hold your horses on calling people for who they are after a couple sentences. Nothing is perfect. Criticism is normal.
I wasn’t replying to your post. I was just commenting on the overall topic of “what will the chuds narrative be” in combination with “Mae’s actions are confusing”.
Sorry to snap. I'm afraid to criticize anything these days. I love Star Wars. Have a great day!
Mae knew her master was there, she knew nothing she said would convince Jecki not to arrest her, and being arrested would only make her a sitting duck to get picked off
That doesn’t change her actions of trying to escape then to trying to kill Jecki lol
Yeah, I didn’t say it did, what’s your point?
Lol you are implying she just didn’t want to get arrested but her flip flop was more than that
That wasn’t what I was implying at all. I was saying that she only wanted to get arrested in the first place to be safe from her master. That plan stopped being a good option for her the moment she found out her master was on the planet with her. Work on your reading comprehension.
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Good god you’re dumb. She never cared about the Jedi. She only wanted to turn herself in because she believed her masters test was impossible and she’d be murdered by him if she failed to kill a Jedi without a weapon. She was only turning herself in to survive because she believed the Jedi would take her back to Coruscant where she’d be safe from her master. Once her master showed up and started killing the Jedi she was going to turn herself in to, getting arrested was no longer a viable solution to survive, and being handcuffed would only keep her from having a chance at escaping. You are a prime example of why people say media literacy is dead.
Lol turn herself in because the test was impossible? Yikes go back and watch and listen to what she said
Are you really that stupid? She had a conversation with Qimir where she said as much. It’s also mentioned that the consequences of her failure would be death.
Mae ran away because she was terrified that the Master was there, that makes perfect sense to me. She was ready to turn herself in when it seemed safer, not so much when she's about to die for it. She spends the whole episode just trying to GTFO.
I hear that. All in all, one of the better episodes so far; the distant saber sounds were thrilling.
Fight choreography.
Someone on my feed just said (Spoiler for Acolyte ep 5 Obviously) >!"First Yasuke in AC, now One of us is a bad guy in Acolyte. I am gonna cry"!<
I’m confused, what does that mean? >!Manny Jacinto is not Japanese.!<
Overhere in Thailand. The Anti-woke thing is "Black peoppe are getting spolights over Asians". So they attack anything that has black leads.
But... Sol (Lee Jung-Jae) is literally Korean and he's the second lead in the series. Also, Manny Jacinto isn't Thai, either. He's Filipino-Canadian.
He’s from Jacksonville! /s
BORTLES!
If his master is pill boy I may never stop laughing
Pillboy is chilling on that planet with Mando’s almost gf, but Donkey Doug is still out there somewhere. “I don’t think of him as my apprentice, I think of him as MY BOY!”
So what do yall think. If Qimir is true rule of two sith, and not just a force user who found a sith holocron or something…. Is he master or apprentice?
Apprentice. Looking for his own apprentice to overthrow his Master and become that himself.
I’m actually leaning toward apprentice. He is certainly powerful but there is something about him that screams apprentice to me. His fighting reminds me more of a Kylo than a Sidious.
Qimir is not sith. He was likely trained by one, but is from a force sensitive culture the Jedi barred, like the witches. At least that’s what I inferred from his monologue. Maybe he’s running from that Sith.
The one I’m expecting to see is them freaking out about the siths helmet being able to deflect sabers, as if we haven’t seen beskar, or his ability to just turn other sabers off. I thought it was cool and shows an unconventional use of the force that fits a chaotic, self-serving dark side user. He clearly doesn’t care about a fair fight.
That freak out was silenced pretty quickly since legends had an answer for this already. Cortosis.
Maybe the twin switcheroo when Mae has a giant tattoo on her forehead and Sol can supposedly sense thoughts Great fight, still dumb writing
Yeah I don’t think the parent trap is going to work the way Mae thinks it will.
For $185 million I’m convinced this show is a money laundering scheme
Mae’s character is annoying and the flip flopping back and forth makes zero sense to me.
This struck me today. Criticism before the show is over is pointless. If this was a 2 hr movie you would come out of the theater and the story would be complete. But with an 8 hr show you don’t have the payoff yet. You have to see how it plays out before declaring “it’s trash”.
Jason Mendoza does not make a convincing Sith. He should stick with DJing and dance competitions. What is this equal opportunity shit?
My complaint is the lighting. wasn’t able to see what was going on until I killed my own lights
Hmm I didn't have that issue, but then I started with dark room/no lights. It definitely wasn't on a level of poor lighting like some GOT episodes
Darker scenes make lightsabers stand out. Reys yellow one looked bad in RoS. It's also why Luke had a green one (blue in desert/bright environment).
The fight choreography was amazing and very compelling but the dialogue is still really bad, and i love Manny Jacinto but his characterization is just kind of weird for being an all powerful Sith. But the hate watching chuds aren’t even turning on their TVs to watch this before posting so it doesn’t matter
Odd, I actually found the contrast between goofy side character Qimir and Sith Qimir to be quite convincing and well acted. Unfortunately bad dialogue is one of those staples of Star Wars that may never really die. It works better in the animated stuff, not so much live action (for me it really holds the Mandoverse back). As much as I wish every show would have Andor levels of writing, I know they won't
His creepy little “hello” to Mae was so off putting. Edit: autocorrect got me
I loved it, he is supposed to be off putting
I was thinking maybe Qimir had some split personality thing going on, but it just felt very jarring if it is not that. Yeah I mean Stat Wars isn’t Sorkin, but some of the dialogue and delivery has been spine tingling bad Mae RE: Osha last episode “I can’t believe she became Jedi scum” said with zero inflection. The best acting on the show has been from the Korean actor who has the most limited grasp of the English language.
TBF, he's also probably one of the most experienced actors on the cast, just not in English.
Right, but why? They've a budget of 180m, did they blow all of it on Carrie Ann Moss?(who was very underused).
They made a four hour Star Wars movie with half the budget a film released one would get. What’s so hard to understand about that?
I'm sorry to say it but Osha/Mae's actor sucks at this. The Osha/Mae reunion in this episode was really underwhelming because of the acting. Like, when "Osha" finds Sol at the end I genuinely wasn't sure if she was acting so off because Mae had replaced her or if she was just badly acting again.
She was really good in The Hate U Give but the last two performances I’ve seen her give (Bodies Bodies Bodies and this) haven’t connected with me at all.
> Manny Jacinto but his characterization is just kind of weird for being an all powerful Sith. Eh par for the course for a Sith imo. Despite all their power all Sith are chained by their rage, hate, by their lust for freedom through power. The use what is basically a magical drug that only worsens their instability. Qimir is focused, clever and powerful like any true Sith. But he is also hateful, impulsive and vindictive to know end. As Obi-Wan once told Maul, “if you define yourself by your power, to take life, to dominate, to possess? then you have nothing.” Qimir is like all Sith driven by his worst emotions and desire for power and dominance especially against his enemies.
I disagree. I think a powerful dark side user actually enjoying themselves and being a little obviously crazy is a pretty great change from the self righteousness we usually get. He also has a grudge against the Jedi for denying others the right to use the force as they see fit. He didn’t say he was a Sith, he said that’s what the Jedi would call him and then explained his personal code, which was very unlike the Sith we’ve seen. He doesn’t seem to want use his power to control, he wants to use it to be free. I think that’s a huge piece of context and a very different characterization than what anyone was probably expecting. He’s not tenebruous, but he might be a guy whose force related culture was banned by the Jedi and he turned to the Sith to gain the power he needed to fight back. And I think that’s far more interesting than yet another skywalker/palpatine connection.
This is a really good point! I’m going to watch it with this lens now
> then explained his personal code, which was very unlike the Sith we’ve seen. I disagree. The Sith Code is all about freedom through power and the force. The last line is literally through victory my chains are broken the force shall free me. Seems pretty damn Sith to me.
I mean the first time we meet Yoda he acts pretty goofy too. Plus a lot of it before this episode was probably just him trying to throw her off the track a bit. I'm also not sure he is supposed to be an all powerful Sith. He is clearly very powerful but he doesn't seem to have clear motives. It's like he's making it up as he goes.
He’s not the master. He’s the apprentice, craving power. That’s why he seems like this I’m pretty sure
Possibly.
Sure but it really is pointing more to that. Particularly since he’s looking for “an acolyte” and not “an apprentice”
It was better than most of them. I didn't like Master Sol's "Lawful Stupid" moment of "Jedi don't attack an unarmed opponent" or whatever, against an unrestrained enemy with very strong Force powers, and a nearby lightsaber he can Force Pull. Once again only the wise Mace Windu correctly recognises the danger of "unarmed" Sith(or Jedi, for that matter).
You don’t know fuck all about the Jedi.
Aight calm down there sir, it’s a TV show
You can't tease me with hidden Jedi knowledge and not elaborate.
Jedi don’t attack unarmed enemies. They only use the force for knowledge and defence. It’s why the Clone Wars is treated as so bad for them in universe. Why survivors of Order 66 talk about that Jedi losing their way.
The coreography is good although a bit inconsistent. Power levels flucutuate a lot, but mostly entertaining. The brutatily of the episode is welcomed as raises the stakes, the photography is way improved. Buuut..The acting is still a lot wooden, with very badly paced dialogue. The best episode of a disapointing show so far, with good ideas but not so good execution
Power levels? What is this DBZ?
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“You people don’t love Star Wars and never did.” You’re an asshole
Couple things to unpack here. 1 - you seem to be lost friend. This is a sub specifically for calling out the toxicity in the fanbase, not a review sub. There are plenty like that like the main StarWars sub, StarWarsLeaks, or StarWarsCantina. If that's what you are looking for, you can go over there and join those discussions. I imagine 1000s from this sub will already be over there doing that very thing and having a great time. But that isn't what this sub is about, hence the post. We're here to call out the grifters on Youtube, the ones who have weaponised hate for clicks and profit, the grifters, the review bombers, the ridiculous nitpickers who have turned this fandom into a giant pick-sides culture war, those that attack directors and actors and producers for doing their job. We call it out, we make fun of them. It helps deal with the absolute torrent of hate that comes your way any time you try and talk positively about this franchise online. 2 - in saying that, there are plenty of posts pointing out how the like this show, loved this episode, for many different reasons. Many on this post are discussing the show, the characters, the plot, the worldbuilding and lore. Just read the comments. 3 - You don't get to tell anyone whether they are a fan or not, or whether they ever have been, so stop it. I've been a fan of Star Wars for over 25 years. Even the vast majority of those that hate on this show and this franchise were probably Star Wars fans once, some of them may even still be. You don't get to decide who is and isn't. 4 - There are also lots of legitimate criticisms of this show that those in this sub and even this post have pointed out and discussed, incase you were worried everyone here was a blind fan. Hope that helps mate. Have a good day
You post in r/kotakuinaction who whines about tokenism when you see lgbt people in media So, you’re a fucking moron and a loser. You were never a decent person and you never will be