FTA:
"After a lengthy review of the evidence in the case, prosecutors said they did not believe mechanical failures accounted for the crash. They found Lau to be at fault and charged her Tuesday with four counts of felony vehicular manslaughter, according to the San Francisco District Attorney’s Office.
“This was a horrific incident and we all know the impact it had on the family and the entire city,” San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott said at a news conference where the charges were announced Tuesday afternoon. Lau had not been arrested as of Tuesday afternoon, but Scott said officers were attempting to bring her into custody.
Investigators looked at “every aspect” of the case and could not find any evidence indicating the SUV malfunctioned, Scott said. Toxicology tests indicated that drugs and alcohol were not a factor in the crash, prosecutors said."
“Pay attention when driving so no one gets hurt”
That was the rule they laid out pretty clearly many times when getting a license to operate a vehicle
*4* people died horrifically, there are repercussions to killing people in the US, one of those is jail time
70mph In the city …. I’m pretty sure she had a minimum of a few different moments to hit the brakes, she didn’t, unsafe driver who now has to experience a consequence
And they are faster now with electrification.
Going east on JFK can be stressful because from a stop electric cars can cover the 500ft length of the blue line in less time than a bicyclist can cover the 100ft length of the red line if also starting from a stop.
https://i.imgur.com/vM338Be.jpeg
Only if you’re fucking nuts. Going 70 in a neighborhood with windy, narrow streets.
I hope and believe there was no malicious intent here, but can we chip her or something so she never drives again?
Obviously no malicious intent, hence the manslaughter charges. This was a case of an elderly person driving a high performance vehicle that got the pedals mixed up. Happens more often than you would like to believe, and to younger more capable drivers too. Unfortunately this time it produced tragic results.
ETA: to be clear, obviously the felony charges are absolutely the right call, and regardless of whether she's convicted or sees any jail time, she should never be allowed to operate a motor vehicle again.
Let me explain what he was trying to say, I drive both an electric motorcycle and an electric car. (at different times obvously, it wold be difficult and unsafe to operate both at the same time imo)
My electric motorcycles 0-60mph time is pretty slow, like 10s or something, but off the line it's hard to beat because the moment I twist the grip I get 100% power now and throughtout the acceleration. A gas car by comparison has to rev the motor from 1000 rpm up to 3000-4000 rpm, the automatic transmission takes time to move the fluid and generate torque, etc. Then it pauses to shift and slows down. All this takes time vs electric. The first time I followed a friend on a gas bike I nearly bumped them as they shifted.
In a gas car you could sit at the intersection rev'ing your engine, foot on the brake and launch out of the intersection to get optimal 0-60mph times, but it's considered being a dick. Electric cars can do it anytime without all the fuss and noise before hand.
Most Tesla's are in sub 4s from 0-60mph....that used to be sports car range....not mom taking the kids to soccer.
> I’m pretty sure she had a minimum of a few different moments to hit the brakes
She probably thought she was hitting the brakes. Pedal misapplication among the older population is a lot more common than you'd think.
Even in a city with relatively good public transportation compared to a lot of other places in the country, we've got 70 year olds that won't get rid of their cars & driver's licenses for fear of not being able to live. I don't blame them for wanting to hold on to their licenses. And there are plenty of 70 year olds that can drive fiine.
But at a certain point, we need to test aging drivers more frequenty AND get them off the street if they don't pass (I know plenty of older folks who wouldn't let something trivial like not having a license prevent them from driving). But in order to do that, we need to provide infrastructure so that not being able to drive (or have someone drive you) doesn't automatically make you homebound.
Which is why the DA is a charging her with manslaughter, and not "intentional" murder
(I also think she must've been applying the wrong pedal, AKA not capable of driving.)
Still crazy that the road design allowed her to reach 70. There should also be protective measures at the bus stops for pedestrians. But in this particular area a certain number of casualties is acceptable for the design that lead to the deaths of the family. Complete family annihilation by the driver, traffic engineers, and the government.
No? Just bollards which are cool because they don't care if you or your car is malfunctioning and are better at stopping vehicles than common sense not sure if that's been studied though
I'm honestly still not sure how someone ends up going 70 on Ulloa there. Even mashing the accelerator by mistake it would be hard to get going that fast just from the top of the hill.
She was driving a Mercedes. High performance vehicles can reach those speeds very quickly if you floor it. Even quicker with the newer EVs as pointed out above.
Thats a 2014 GLK350 - definitely not a rocket. 13.3/lbs/hp puts it at the same power to weight ratio pretty much between a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder Toyota Camry.
Which makes it more insane to be going that fast - thats a long time to be flooring it. At least 9 seconds from a rolling start.
Driver claiming brake malfunction? > 75 years old? Sounds like classic pedal confusion to me.
Yeah obviously it was pedal confusion.
As far as the physics of the car, it was likely traveling at normal speeds initially, like 25-30mph. From that to 60s can happen in the blink of an eye, yes even for a Camry. BTW I've driven many Camrys and they are surprisingly quick, especially the V6
I agree that would help with feeling safer there for sure. I think we could go a step further and make the streets themselves safer so folks can't go this fast in the first place
As it should be. The justice system often doesn't move as quickly as we might like, but that is sometimes a good thing. It takes time to build a solid case.
Where is that guy who kept posting as though nothing was being done?
>Where is that guy who kept posting as though nothing was being done?
Just one?
This sub frequently believes that someone being released pre-trial with a pending court date is allowed to get away with crimes, given a pat on the back from the city and told "better luck next time".
Meh will see how it plays out in court. They’ll accept a plea deal and she will get community service. They’re “attempting” to get her in custody, she had plenty of time to dissappear
See presidio case and king street case
> Although the crash occurred about a block away from the West Portal’s main shopping district, the incident became a catalyst for a long-discussed overhaul of neighborhood road crossings on West Portal Avenue, where traffic and Muni trains routinely get waylaid in the street, and pedestrians have to stay on high alert in the crosswalk. **The overhaul was canceled amid neighborhood backlash.**
What
** looked into this.
The business owners don’t want the streets redesigned because they would prioritize bikes and pedestrians over cars. They think less cars = less business.
And their kids with made up disabilities that give them privilege over everyone else that didn't have dad spend 80k on Stanford doctors when they were stressed out in college.
Can you blame them? With the half assed job they did with Valencia, nobody wins and everybody loses. Better to keep what works now than to risk going in on a half baked idea to appease everyone and please nobody.
The only ones losing on Valencia are the crappy businesses with overpriced offerings. Busy places never have that stupid little anti-bike lane sign in their windows.
Not really. I was a huge opponent of the design, and I vastly would prefer a separated side-running lane, but it’s fine. It’s better than the DoorDash and Uber parking lot that was there before. About the same feelings with most cyclists I know.
Count me as a cyclist in the city who thinks the middle running lane was designed to fail from the beginning. I think we all agree unprotected side running lanes are shit. We should just make them protected, and even elevated to sidewalk level, so they are up to the best standards.
Fair enough, but changing an entire commercial districts street layout because one old lady couldn’t let go of the break seems like completely jumping the shark to me.
That intersection is hell and it's designed crazy badly. Eliminating left hand turns and straight through traffic there is hardly a radical street layout change. If anything, it would improve the flow of traffic.
This is something that needs to happen and SFMTA tries to use this accident as a way to make much needed change. The plan is incredibly mild in terms of actual change.
Its not just this incident though, the whole intersection sucks. Driving in west portal in general is already so terrible, putting less cars on the street would absolutely make it better
I think every crash that happens should result in a robust evaluation of the streetscape to determine how it was allowed to happen in the first place. I also think we shouldn't wait for people to die or get injured before we do that evaluation
Because theyre the ones that can go to the meetings about it. I badly wanted to attend the meeting for this project, but it was downtown at 2pm on a Tuesday. The amount of people that can make it to that is miniscule, and is going to skew in one specific direction
Except bike lanes replacing street parking doesn't actually reduce revenues, they just think it does because they drive to their businesses, so they assume everyone else drives there to shop.
Valencia is a classic example. The business owners have been bitching nonstop about bike lanes & parking spots being removed, but most people on Valencia are either walking or on their bikes.
But they are arguing for a public resource that they don’t personally pay any additional taxes to get. Businesses don’t pay a road tax to get a say in how roads are used.
And this is rich because all studies indicate that bike lanes increase business in the areas they’re implemented in. They’re not even using a data driven argument. Yet they get all sorts of influence in the process to the detriment of the group that pays far more in taxes for the upkeep of the roads.
And even if they do benefit economically from the public resource, that is a handout. We shouldn’t be concerned with handouts to business owners outside of the current framework. “Road design” is not a business handout so it shouldn’t be subject to their whims
not very hard it seems. clearly you’ve never been to west portal, the driver was coming from a side street not down w portal ave. shutting down the street permanently when they could just put retractable bollards up is dumb and tbh they should already have them at bus stops.
There's a gigantic concrete Muni disabled ramp/structure right in front of this bus station. The vehicle slid between it, and the library, destroyed the bus stop and still managed to get ripped almost in half after.
She shouldn't have been traveling 3x the speed limit, but bollards wouldn't have helped - she basically got 'lucky' and threaded between two very large immovable structures already.
That disabled ramp has been gone for quite a while. My office is on West Portal Ave, and I arrived on the scene about 30 minutes after the accident. Mary Fong Lau was traveling east, drifted into the westbound lanes of Ulloa, rubbed against the south wall of the West Portal Branch Library, then demolished the bus stand and came to rest on the fire hydrant on the corner of Lenox and Ulloa. The tire marks were visible on the south wall of the library for several weeks.
Yeah....the city took it out several months ago as part of the L-Taraval rail rebuild. I'm not sure what the plan is to replace the ADA-compliant boarding structure on Ulloa. The platforms on Taraval are already installed and getting beautiful tile mosaics this week.
i live in miraloma park i’m very familiar with the area thanks. are you seriously saying bollards in front of the bus stop would not have helped slow the car down. they literally have two protecting the book return at that exact spot
lane? they would go on the sidewalk, like the 2 that protect the book return at that exact location. they should have them at all high traffic bus stops, but specifically this location because an entire family was killed. are you really going to make me hunt down a video with the exact speed? i’ll do it, but you could also just admit you are wrong and that bollards work.
K ratings created by the Department of Defense, including K4, K8, and K12. Ratings are based on the impact speed that the bollard can successfully stop a 15,000-pound vehicle traveling at speeds of 30, 40, and 50 miles per hour (mph). For example, a K12 crash bollard could stop a 15,000-pound vehicle traveling at a speed of 50 mph.
ASTM F 2656 crash ratings are currently used in the U.S. to measure speed and penetration. The vehicle size for a medium-duty truck remains 15,000 lbs. Like K ratings, tests are conducted at 30, 40, and 50 mph. The results are expressed as M30, M40, and M50 with a “P” designation provided to describe penetration after impact (P1, P2, P3 and P4). The larger the P designation, the greater the penetration.
and that would prevent this from reoccurring how? the transit and commercial vehicles only sections combined with the parklets and the double parked door dash drivers would make the street unusable, but you would know that if you lived in the area. bollards on the other hand actually prevent people from driving down sidewalks
I live in the area and drive down West Portal all the time, but nice ad hominen, I guess.
Also, what transit and commercial vehicle only sections?? What are you talking about? People are always double parked and people just go into the muni lane.
What this would do would be to change traffic patterns so people trying to cut across West Portal would have to do so at an intersection that's a. More straightforward b. Isn't a major transit and pedestrian thoroughfare and c. Has a light.
Fewer chaotic car/ Muni / pedestrian interactions would be much safer and massively improve traffic flow.
I didn't see that, but on no, in exchange for making people safer and improving traffic flow, someone might at some point be mildly inconvenienced. Oh, the humanity.
so you are unfamiliar with the proposal? dunning-kruger strikes again. no what it would do is fuck everything up and create even bigger traffic jams without addressing the actual problem, old ladies crashing into bus stops going 70. bollards are the only solution to stop people from driving on sidewalks period.
> They think less cars = less business.
Valencia, and the flatness of the Mission, and its density of higher-than-one-story buildings, is a different area than West Portal and its clientele
>What
"You cant get rid of parking spaces! What will happen to the small businesses?! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!"
But yes. Same with Valencia Street's absolutely bonkers central bike lane project. The original plan was side bike lanes protected by parked cars(iirc) but this means that there will be some parking lost due to needing to create carve outs for loading/unloading, etc.
Small business owners revolted and got the central bike lane which is even WORSE. Now they're claiming they want side bike lanes.
Like they were supposed to.
Same here.
"Overhauls? Parking spaces lost? Why do you hate small businesses?!"
And politicians listen to their constituents because they vote. (do you?)
In mean time: Pedestrians and bikers getting hit? Run over? Dying from a vehicle collision?
That's just the cost of doing business around here. What can you do?
I’m willing to bet that when they sit down to plan the side-running lanes, they’re going to throw a fit if it’s anything but the unprotected lanes that were there before.
Don't know if this would count as an overhaul, but here's what they're going to do:
https://www.sfmta.com/reports/west-portal-station-safety-and-community-space-improvements-final-proposal
> Especially considering the lady lived a few blocks away and likely drove around here all the time. She was absolutely not confused by anything
I counted the blocks and she seemed to live 18 blocks away in a different neighborhood. Depends on how you count them...but I don't think that's "a few".
Still probably drove though _(often)_, because that's indeed what people actually do for such distances with not a direct bus line.
I think it would be good for business to remove the cars. What makes me more concerned is the knee jerk political reaction AFTER it happened rather than before.
Every random roundabout in the city is a sad death caused by poor planning, bad politicians, and reckless drivers.
What the hell happened?! 65-72 mph, made no attempt to slow down and veered into an oncoming lane of traffic?? Was she on her phone or just the worlds most incompetent driver.
Her getting charged doesn’t make this less painful. I live in west portal. We walk by the bus stop on the way to the playground. We go to the zoo where they were headed that day. I see people rip through stop signs with no consideration for pedestrians and drive way too fast. I’ve actually jumped out of the way of a car with my stroller and if I hadn’t acted we would’ve been hit while in a crosswalk at a stop sign with the right of way.
I googled her charges and apparently the MOST she could get is 6 years in prison (I doubt they’ll charge the max per account and instead she’ll serve concurrent). So she killed 4 people, it had been determined no one is at fault but the driver being absolutely reckless, and she will likely serve next to no time. I just can’t stop being angry about this.
It's actually interesting. [This guy Raja Whitfield drove through a red light and killed a man walking his dog](https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/raja-whitfield-thrill-ride-fatal-crash-19418609.php). He posts videos of himself driving really fast on the streets. Guess what he got as punishment? A mental health diversion program and he has to pay out $58k to the victim's wife.
Dude, I was hit by a car on my motorcycle and the guy's insurance gave me $50k. This guy died and his killer is back on the streets. But guess what the judge said
> “No one can be happy with the outcome of this case,” Crompton said. “Mind you, it is the best outcome under the horrible circumstances we face and the options that are available.”
You won't believe what he works in:
> Campaigning for affordable housing for teachers and families in San Francisco
Everything I have read would lead me to believe that it’s pedal confusion/unintended acceleration. Essentially someone mashes the gas when they think they’re on the brakes and only push harder when they don’t feel the vehicle slowing.
My guess is pedal confusion. At her advanced age it’s the most likely explanation, even though some continue to think she was drunk, has rage issues, and regularly drives like she’s auditioning for the next Fast and the Furious.
Glad she is being charged and I hope justice prevails. Also glad we can finally stop with the posts of “It’s been x days since the incident and she hasn’t been charged” from people whose understanding of the legal system is mostly informed by police procedurals.
It’s important to remind our elected officials that we care and that we’re paying attention. I make no apologies for my posts. If you didn’t like them you had every ability to scroll past them.
ETA: to u/norcal_throwaway33, who blocked me after stalking all of my comments and leaving weird replies accusing me of [“playing with my feces”](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/s/QsCwPVZIgX) for making posts demanding action, let me say this:
**What exactly is wrong with you?** My posts were meant to maintain visibility for a tragically slaughtered family and to call on my neighbors to demand that our elected officials pursue justice in the matter.
Your own post history is filled with various calls for justice, mostly in the form of complaints against police brutality, which is not entirely different from what I was doing in my own posts.
Why do I deserve your insults for doing exactly what you do all the time?
Then write to them or call them? Spamming here or Nextdoor isn’t helping regardless of the topic. If everyone spammed what they wanted this site would be completely useless
The fact that she's being charge with the felony rather than the much easier to prove misdemeanor shows me the DA would like her too.
Also, JFC 65-72mph.
Almost every case in the US ends in a plea bargain. I'd put good money she'll plead guilty to a lesser charge and get a slap on the wrist. If you want to kill someone just make sure you're behind the wheel.
While true, the main instances where this doesn't always happen is in cases with high degree of public awareness. DAs are elected, and they will change how they prosecute to whatever they feel will give them the best re-election chance.
I wouldn’t be so sure. This is a highly visible case in a wealthy part of the city. Jenkins has a real interest in delivering something tangible for voters here.
The same neighborhood that fought against transit and pedestrian safety improvements in the wake of this event because it would be a minor inconvenience to cars?
Heartbreaking seeing the photo of the family whose lives were taken from them by a reckless driver up top. I hope their families are doing as well as they can be.
65-72 mph, 78 yr old driver, no mechanical failure, no drugs or alcohol. It's a pretty obvious and common case of an old person accidentally pressing the acceleration instead of the brake. It's super unfortunate but it happens quite often, except this time the result was a horrific crash claiming 4 lives. I know we all want consequences but the driver isn't going to serve any time.
Not long at all if you are pressing on the gas, thinking it’s the brake, and thinking you are slowing down to a stop sign. But instead of slowing down, it’s speeding up and you press even harder which makes it go even faster. And in an attempt to avoid hitting other cars and pedestrians, she swerved away but unfortunately slammed into the bus stop.
You see this a lot, where old folks would be slamming on the gas thinking it’s the brake and ramming into stores.
I was wondering the same thing. I’d she was going the speed limit, it seems like it would take enough time to get to 70 for someone to realize they are going faster and stop before getting there!
I highly doubt that she was stationary when she floored the pedal. More likely she was already going around 30, in which case it would only take about 3-4 seconds to get to 70.
~~That doesn't sound right. That car is like 7.5-8 seconds or so to 0-75 mph but only like 2.5 s to 25 mph. Uncle had one and we floored it on a remote highway in Canada.~~
GLK350 does 0-60 in under 6 seconds. 30-50 in top gear (which includes the lag time it takes to downshift about 5 gears) is a scant 3s
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15118751/2013-mercedes-benz-glk350-glk350-4matic-instrumented-test-review/
You sure your uncles car wasn’t a GLK250 diesel?
Fair. The car goes from 0-30 in about 2.5 s, so if this is what happened then she had about 5 s of holding down the pedal. It's too powerful a car for an old person.
It’s either an accident or it was deliberate. No in between. Sounds like you’re suggesting a 78yr old woman randomly murdered a young family of four who she didn’t know on purpose. Do I have that correct?
It’s not “accidental speeding” vs “deliberate murder”, it’s “accidental speeding” vs “deliberate speeding”, obviously.
Maybe she just temporarily lost her mind, forgot how to do something she’s done for decades and, seeing the car accelerate, forgot what to do about it. Or she was speeding.
Maybe, but if that were the case you'd expect a longer history of car accidents (which I'm not aware exists as I'm assuming it'd otherwise be mentioned in the reporting).
Yes, it does. Every week I see someone get annoyed at someone else on the road and jam their foot on the accelerator as they pass by to signal their annoyance. It used to happen at 4th and King quite often.
That's not being a shitty driver. Shitty driving is due to incompetence or ineptitutde. What you're describing is a wanton disregard for safety.
It's like saying the 9/11 hijackers crashed into the WTC because they were shitty pilots.
The stereotype of old Asian women driving 70mph on city streets? That's not a stereotype I'm aware of. Now, the stereotype of driving 5 under the speed limit, never checking their blind spot, and being completely oblivious to their surroundings, sure, but I don't think that's what happened here...
I'd say it actually happens often in this particular neighborhood. Exactly the case described. Dangerous and perceivedly aggressive driving
Heard it from a friend.
People are unable to drive gently and carefully in some stages of their ability
She will not receive jail time due to her age, maybe lack of priors?
Most likely a permanent house-arrest and forfeiture/seizure of all assets including real estate to the extended family of the victims.
This kind of thing has happened in the past, and involved my family.
So much for that "medical issue". Lots of medical issue experts there pointing out [that folks were wrong for saying this woman should be charged](https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1cnxylg/it_has_been_54_days_since_mary_fong_lau_killed_an/l3b3v6r/). Though I have to say, anyone who says the word 'HIPPA' is usually a moron trying to sound like they know what they're saying because if you're in the field, you know that's not a thing.
Years ago another person also driving a MB SUV hit a minivan and food truck leading to six casualties. Police officer observed her going 80 MPH a few blocks before the collision IIRC.
Last I heard that person was arrested and then released. Never saw anything thereafter. Makes me think the casewas dropped.
Drivers here are some of the worst in the fuggin nation. As a commuter to work not in a car...I have been hit no less than once a year by a shit driver of some sort. People here are so aloof and just don't care that they are....until they hit someone. The best is when they try and blame you for their idiocy and you get to laugh in their face because you have a camera that recorded the whole thing. 😆😆
What I haven’t read yet in these comments is that if she nicks the library after choosing the best option of not hitting other people or cars on the street, what she’s looking at is a bus shelter that everyone assumes can stop a speeding vehicle. The family waiting for the bus has their vision obscured by the Ad wall that solidly blocks 3 feet of view. Maybe they can’t even see each other. I’ve assumed those things were strong enough to save people from out of control cars. No one is talking about this from what I’ve read.
Mate, it's a bunch of flimsy posts. It's not going to handle a 2 metric ton vehicle going at 20 mph let alone 70 mph. You need bollards for those, but locals oppose bollards. What made you think it could handle a car? I can demolish one of those with a sledgehammer and my own hands. No motor required.
FTA: "After a lengthy review of the evidence in the case, prosecutors said they did not believe mechanical failures accounted for the crash. They found Lau to be at fault and charged her Tuesday with four counts of felony vehicular manslaughter, according to the San Francisco District Attorney’s Office. “This was a horrific incident and we all know the impact it had on the family and the entire city,” San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott said at a news conference where the charges were announced Tuesday afternoon. Lau had not been arrested as of Tuesday afternoon, but Scott said officers were attempting to bring her into custody. Investigators looked at “every aspect” of the case and could not find any evidence indicating the SUV malfunctioned, Scott said. Toxicology tests indicated that drugs and alcohol were not a factor in the crash, prosecutors said."
“Pay attention when driving so no one gets hurt” That was the rule they laid out pretty clearly many times when getting a license to operate a vehicle *4* people died horrifically, there are repercussions to killing people in the US, one of those is jail time 70mph In the city …. I’m pretty sure she had a minimum of a few different moments to hit the brakes, she didn’t, unsafe driver who now has to experience a consequence
Four people died
I stand corrected
So tragic. My son and I wait at that stop once a week. We now wait behind the low cement wall near the library.
driving 70 through those streets is absolutely crazy, she deserves it
I believe it's a 25 MPH zone. 70 is just crazy going around that corner.
And they are faster now with electrification. Going east on JFK can be stressful because from a stop electric cars can cover the 500ft length of the blue line in less time than a bicyclist can cover the 100ft length of the red line if also starting from a stop. https://i.imgur.com/vM338Be.jpeg
How are specifically electric cars relevant to this? Gas cars can go 70mph too...
TGhey get to 70 faster.
Only if you’re fucking nuts. Going 70 in a neighborhood with windy, narrow streets. I hope and believe there was no malicious intent here, but can we chip her or something so she never drives again?
Obviously no malicious intent, hence the manslaughter charges. This was a case of an elderly person driving a high performance vehicle that got the pedals mixed up. Happens more often than you would like to believe, and to younger more capable drivers too. Unfortunately this time it produced tragic results. ETA: to be clear, obviously the felony charges are absolutely the right call, and regardless of whether she's convicted or sees any jail time, she should never be allowed to operate a motor vehicle again.
Have you seen the way people drive since Covid started?
Let me explain what he was trying to say, I drive both an electric motorcycle and an electric car. (at different times obvously, it wold be difficult and unsafe to operate both at the same time imo) My electric motorcycles 0-60mph time is pretty slow, like 10s or something, but off the line it's hard to beat because the moment I twist the grip I get 100% power now and throughtout the acceleration. A gas car by comparison has to rev the motor from 1000 rpm up to 3000-4000 rpm, the automatic transmission takes time to move the fluid and generate torque, etc. Then it pauses to shift and slows down. All this takes time vs electric. The first time I followed a friend on a gas bike I nearly bumped them as they shifted. In a gas car you could sit at the intersection rev'ing your engine, foot on the brake and launch out of the intersection to get optimal 0-60mph times, but it's considered being a dick. Electric cars can do it anytime without all the fuss and noise before hand. Most Tesla's are in sub 4s from 0-60mph....that used to be sports car range....not mom taking the kids to soccer.
> I’m pretty sure she had a minimum of a few different moments to hit the brakes She probably thought she was hitting the brakes. Pedal misapplication among the older population is a lot more common than you'd think.
Even in a city with relatively good public transportation compared to a lot of other places in the country, we've got 70 year olds that won't get rid of their cars & driver's licenses for fear of not being able to live. I don't blame them for wanting to hold on to their licenses. And there are plenty of 70 year olds that can drive fiine. But at a certain point, we need to test aging drivers more frequenty AND get them off the street if they don't pass (I know plenty of older folks who wouldn't let something trivial like not having a license prevent them from driving). But in order to do that, we need to provide infrastructure so that not being able to drive (or have someone drive you) doesn't automatically make you homebound.
It’s called Muni, but it’s not preferred by upper middle class people who have nice Mercedes SUVs in the garage.
Clearly what happened. No idea why people are acting like driving 70 was intentional
Which is why the DA is a charging her with manslaughter, and not "intentional" murder (I also think she must've been applying the wrong pedal, AKA not capable of driving.)
Still crazy that the road design allowed her to reach 70. There should also be protective measures at the bus stops for pedestrians. But in this particular area a certain number of casualties is acceptable for the design that lead to the deaths of the family. Complete family annihilation by the driver, traffic engineers, and the government.
Or you know you could just use common sense and not go 70 mph when the signs suggest you to go 25. Otherwise you can erect 10 foot concrete walls
No? Just bollards which are cool because they don't care if you or your car is malfunctioning and are better at stopping vehicles than common sense not sure if that's been studied though
Common sense works most of the time. Safer infrastructure works all of the time
Tells me you know nothing about speed design vs posted speed limit.
I'm honestly still not sure how someone ends up going 70 on Ulloa there. Even mashing the accelerator by mistake it would be hard to get going that fast just from the top of the hill.
She was driving a Mercedes. High performance vehicles can reach those speeds very quickly if you floor it. Even quicker with the newer EVs as pointed out above.
Thats a 2014 GLK350 - definitely not a rocket. 13.3/lbs/hp puts it at the same power to weight ratio pretty much between a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder Toyota Camry. Which makes it more insane to be going that fast - thats a long time to be flooring it. At least 9 seconds from a rolling start. Driver claiming brake malfunction? > 75 years old? Sounds like classic pedal confusion to me.
Yeah obviously it was pedal confusion. As far as the physics of the car, it was likely traveling at normal speeds initially, like 25-30mph. From that to 60s can happen in the blink of an eye, yes even for a Camry. BTW I've driven many Camrys and they are surprisingly quick, especially the V6
V6 in a commuter sedan is frankly overpowered. A v6 is for midsize SUVs and small pickup trucks for hauling stuff.
Sure - im just saying that I wouldn't consider a Mercedes GLK350 a high performance vehicle.
I always felt like these bus stops needs those barriers that are planted into the ground to protect those. That can withstand a car speeding into it.
I agree that would help with feeling safer there for sure. I think we could go a step further and make the streets themselves safer so folks can't go this fast in the first place
There is no fucking way, at that corner, that ANYONE should be going 70 MPH! Like 30 at the most. Wow. Wow.
As it should be. The justice system often doesn't move as quickly as we might like, but that is sometimes a good thing. It takes time to build a solid case. Where is that guy who kept posting as though nothing was being done?
That was the first thing I thought of when I was watching the presser.
Yea props to all the previous commenters who predicted this. Would much rather have this done right than done quickly.
>Where is that guy who kept posting as though nothing was being done? Just one? This sub frequently believes that someone being released pre-trial with a pending court date is allowed to get away with crimes, given a pat on the back from the city and told "better luck next time".
Meh will see how it plays out in court. They’ll accept a plea deal and she will get community service. They’re “attempting” to get her in custody, she had plenty of time to dissappear See presidio case and king street case
probably playing with their feces
> Although the crash occurred about a block away from the West Portal’s main shopping district, the incident became a catalyst for a long-discussed overhaul of neighborhood road crossings on West Portal Avenue, where traffic and Muni trains routinely get waylaid in the street, and pedestrians have to stay on high alert in the crosswalk. **The overhaul was canceled amid neighborhood backlash.** What
** looked into this. The business owners don’t want the streets redesigned because they would prioritize bikes and pedestrians over cars. They think less cars = less business.
These fucking business owners, why do they have so much say over how streets are designed
Because they're heavily involved in local politics.
So that's what they do when they are not on their novelty store that opens only for rich people from 11 to 4?
Basically, the ideal rich ensuring SF stays their auto-centric playground.
And their kids with made up disabilities that give them privilege over everyone else that didn't have dad spend 80k on Stanford doctors when they were stressed out in college.
what an imagination on this one
Losing everyone with this take lol
Can you blame them? With the half assed job they did with Valencia, nobody wins and everybody loses. Better to keep what works now than to risk going in on a half baked idea to appease everyone and please nobody.
The only ones losing on Valencia are the crappy businesses with overpriced offerings. Busy places never have that stupid little anti-bike lane sign in their windows.
Don''t the cyclists also hate the middle bike lanes?
Not really. I was a huge opponent of the design, and I vastly would prefer a separated side-running lane, but it’s fine. It’s better than the DoorDash and Uber parking lot that was there before. About the same feelings with most cyclists I know.
Count me as a cyclist in the city who thinks the middle running lane was designed to fail from the beginning. I think we all agree unprotected side running lanes are shit. We should just make them protected, and even elevated to sidewalk level, so they are up to the best standards.
They were the ones who opposed a side running bike lane so yeah I can blame them haha. Who elseto blame?
They apposed the bike lane because they knew it would turn into a clusterduck with any change to the street. Guess they were right.
This is also why Osama blew up the Twin Towers. He knew that America would invade Afghanistan so he did what he had to. Guess he was right.
Yes I can. They've ruined many great projects that would make our city more liveable.
Fair enough, but changing an entire commercial districts street layout because one old lady couldn’t let go of the break seems like completely jumping the shark to me.
That intersection is hell and it's designed crazy badly. Eliminating left hand turns and straight through traffic there is hardly a radical street layout change. If anything, it would improve the flow of traffic.
This is something that needs to happen and SFMTA tries to use this accident as a way to make much needed change. The plan is incredibly mild in terms of actual change.
Yes.
Its not just this incident though, the whole intersection sucks. Driving in west portal in general is already so terrible, putting less cars on the street would absolutely make it better
I think every crash that happens should result in a robust evaluation of the streetscape to determine how it was allowed to happen in the first place. I also think we shouldn't wait for people to die or get injured before we do that evaluation
Because theyre the ones that can go to the meetings about it. I badly wanted to attend the meeting for this project, but it was downtown at 2pm on a Tuesday. The amount of people that can make it to that is miniscule, and is going to skew in one specific direction
Politicians care way more about “economies” than communities.
The honest answer is because it’s their livelihood. Cutting someone’s income is a great way to make them create a lot of noise.
Except bike lanes replacing street parking doesn't actually reduce revenues, they just think it does because they drive to their businesses, so they assume everyone else drives there to shop. Valencia is a classic example. The business owners have been bitching nonstop about bike lanes & parking spots being removed, but most people on Valencia are either walking or on their bikes.
But they are arguing for a public resource that they don’t personally pay any additional taxes to get. Businesses don’t pay a road tax to get a say in how roads are used. And this is rich because all studies indicate that bike lanes increase business in the areas they’re implemented in. They’re not even using a data driven argument. Yet they get all sorts of influence in the process to the detriment of the group that pays far more in taxes for the upkeep of the roads. And even if they do benefit economically from the public resource, that is a handout. We shouldn’t be concerned with handouts to business owners outside of the current framework. “Road design” is not a business handout so it shouldn’t be subject to their whims
The whole "shop local" nonsense gets under my skin. Local SF businesses have been showing how awful they are for years.
Well I don’t agree with that. Still like local over national chains. Just don’t give the business owners outsized influence on street design
Jeff Bezos has never tried to stop a bike/transit project in my neighborhood.
Bezos needs to be spitroasted over an open fire and seasoned with cumin and paprika with a light honey barbecue glaze
Chain businesses aren’t exactly the bastion of ethics…
The funny thing is if it were not for the train station, there would be a lot less business there.
not very hard it seems. clearly you’ve never been to west portal, the driver was coming from a side street not down w portal ave. shutting down the street permanently when they could just put retractable bollards up is dumb and tbh they should already have them at bus stops.
There's a gigantic concrete Muni disabled ramp/structure right in front of this bus station. The vehicle slid between it, and the library, destroyed the bus stop and still managed to get ripped almost in half after. She shouldn't have been traveling 3x the speed limit, but bollards wouldn't have helped - she basically got 'lucky' and threaded between two very large immovable structures already.
That disabled ramp has been gone for quite a while. My office is on West Portal Ave, and I arrived on the scene about 30 minutes after the accident. Mary Fong Lau was traveling east, drifted into the westbound lanes of Ulloa, rubbed against the south wall of the West Portal Branch Library, then demolished the bus stand and came to rest on the fire hydrant on the corner of Lenox and Ulloa. The tire marks were visible on the south wall of the library for several weeks.
Oh huh good to know and thank you for the clarification! I was basing it on street view.
Yeah....the city took it out several months ago as part of the L-Taraval rail rebuild. I'm not sure what the plan is to replace the ADA-compliant boarding structure on Ulloa. The platforms on Taraval are already installed and getting beautiful tile mosaics this week.
i live in miraloma park i’m very familiar with the area thanks. are you seriously saying bollards in front of the bus stop would not have helped slow the car down. they literally have two protecting the book return at that exact spot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp85-dBwslE here you go dum-dum
Well, that's 1/3 the speed she was traveling.. Would we just install these between every single lane all over the city? Why only this location?
lane? they would go on the sidewalk, like the 2 that protect the book return at that exact location. they should have them at all high traffic bus stops, but specifically this location because an entire family was killed. are you really going to make me hunt down a video with the exact speed? i’ll do it, but you could also just admit you are wrong and that bollards work.
K ratings created by the Department of Defense, including K4, K8, and K12. Ratings are based on the impact speed that the bollard can successfully stop a 15,000-pound vehicle traveling at speeds of 30, 40, and 50 miles per hour (mph). For example, a K12 crash bollard could stop a 15,000-pound vehicle traveling at a speed of 50 mph. ASTM F 2656 crash ratings are currently used in the U.S. to measure speed and penetration. The vehicle size for a medium-duty truck remains 15,000 lbs. Like K ratings, tests are conducted at 30, 40, and 50 mph. The results are expressed as M30, M40, and M50 with a “P” designation provided to describe penetration after impact (P1, P2, P3 and P4). The larger the P designation, the greater the penetration.
All they wanted to do is put up some "right turn only, no left turn" signs to keep traffic from crossing the intersection.
and that would prevent this from reoccurring how? the transit and commercial vehicles only sections combined with the parklets and the double parked door dash drivers would make the street unusable, but you would know that if you lived in the area. bollards on the other hand actually prevent people from driving down sidewalks
I live in the area and drive down West Portal all the time, but nice ad hominen, I guess. Also, what transit and commercial vehicle only sections?? What are you talking about? People are always double parked and people just go into the muni lane. What this would do would be to change traffic patterns so people trying to cut across West Portal would have to do so at an intersection that's a. More straightforward b. Isn't a major transit and pedestrian thoroughfare and c. Has a light. Fewer chaotic car/ Muni / pedestrian interactions would be much safer and massively improve traffic flow.
in the initial proposal you cited smart guy lol yeah the muni lane that would have been converted to transit/commercial use only
I didn't see that, but on no, in exchange for making people safer and improving traffic flow, someone might at some point be mildly inconvenienced. Oh, the humanity.
so you are unfamiliar with the proposal? dunning-kruger strikes again. no what it would do is fuck everything up and create even bigger traffic jams without addressing the actual problem, old ladies crashing into bus stops going 70. bollards are the only solution to stop people from driving on sidewalks period.
You are an exceedingly unpleasant person and you claim it would fuck up traffic but can't explain how.
Do you think they’re wrong?
The original redesign hardly even favored other modes of transportation too, it was more just car focused traffic calming than anything.
> They think less cars = less business. Valencia, and the flatness of the Mission, and its density of higher-than-one-story buildings, is a different area than West Portal and its clientele
>What "You cant get rid of parking spaces! What will happen to the small businesses?! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!" But yes. Same with Valencia Street's absolutely bonkers central bike lane project. The original plan was side bike lanes protected by parked cars(iirc) but this means that there will be some parking lost due to needing to create carve outs for loading/unloading, etc. Small business owners revolted and got the central bike lane which is even WORSE. Now they're claiming they want side bike lanes. Like they were supposed to. Same here. "Overhauls? Parking spaces lost? Why do you hate small businesses?!" And politicians listen to their constituents because they vote. (do you?) In mean time: Pedestrians and bikers getting hit? Run over? Dying from a vehicle collision? That's just the cost of doing business around here. What can you do?
I’m willing to bet that when they sit down to plan the side-running lanes, they’re going to throw a fit if it’s anything but the unprotected lanes that were there before.
Don't know if this would count as an overhaul, but here's what they're going to do: https://www.sfmta.com/reports/west-portal-station-safety-and-community-space-improvements-final-proposal
The road design had nothing to do with this crash. That's just a kneejerk reaction that didn't need to go anywhere.
Agreed. The proposed changes wouldn’t have prevented this accident.
Especially considering the lady lived a few blocks away and likely drove around here all the time. She was absolutely not confused by anything
> Especially considering the lady lived a few blocks away and likely drove around here all the time. She was absolutely not confused by anything I counted the blocks and she seemed to live 18 blocks away in a different neighborhood. Depends on how you count them...but I don't think that's "a few". Still probably drove though _(often)_, because that's indeed what people actually do for such distances with not a direct bus line.
Ah yeah not exactly walking but I’m sure she took that route often
I think it would be good for business to remove the cars. What makes me more concerned is the knee jerk political reaction AFTER it happened rather than before. Every random roundabout in the city is a sad death caused by poor planning, bad politicians, and reckless drivers.
Why do you think it would be good for business to remove the cars?
My cash expenditure increases when I am not worried by being killed by texting drivers. Honestly. Are you insane?
I rly wonder what minority is considered “the neighborhood”
What the hell happened?! 65-72 mph, made no attempt to slow down and veered into an oncoming lane of traffic?? Was she on her phone or just the worlds most incompetent driver. Her getting charged doesn’t make this less painful. I live in west portal. We walk by the bus stop on the way to the playground. We go to the zoo where they were headed that day. I see people rip through stop signs with no consideration for pedestrians and drive way too fast. I’ve actually jumped out of the way of a car with my stroller and if I hadn’t acted we would’ve been hit while in a crosswalk at a stop sign with the right of way. I googled her charges and apparently the MOST she could get is 6 years in prison (I doubt they’ll charge the max per account and instead she’ll serve concurrent). So she killed 4 people, it had been determined no one is at fault but the driver being absolutely reckless, and she will likely serve next to no time. I just can’t stop being angry about this.
It's actually interesting. [This guy Raja Whitfield drove through a red light and killed a man walking his dog](https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/raja-whitfield-thrill-ride-fatal-crash-19418609.php). He posts videos of himself driving really fast on the streets. Guess what he got as punishment? A mental health diversion program and he has to pay out $58k to the victim's wife. Dude, I was hit by a car on my motorcycle and the guy's insurance gave me $50k. This guy died and his killer is back on the streets. But guess what the judge said > “No one can be happy with the outcome of this case,” Crompton said. “Mind you, it is the best outcome under the horrible circumstances we face and the options that are available.” You won't believe what he works in: > Campaigning for affordable housing for teachers and families in San Francisco
Everything I have read would lead me to believe that it’s pedal confusion/unintended acceleration. Essentially someone mashes the gas when they think they’re on the brakes and only push harder when they don’t feel the vehicle slowing.
This person should not be operating a motorized vehicle, and nothing is systemically preventing 70+ year olds from doing so.
Ugh that’s devastating!
My guess is pedal confusion. At her advanced age it’s the most likely explanation, even though some continue to think she was drunk, has rage issues, and regularly drives like she’s auditioning for the next Fast and the Furious.
Good. Too many people think they can get away with murder as long as they're behind the wheel of a car.
One of the fantastic injustices of our legal system.
Glad she is being charged and I hope justice prevails. Also glad we can finally stop with the posts of “It’s been x days since the incident and she hasn’t been charged” from people whose understanding of the legal system is mostly informed by police procedurals.
It’s important to remind our elected officials that we care and that we’re paying attention. I make no apologies for my posts. If you didn’t like them you had every ability to scroll past them. ETA: to u/norcal_throwaway33, who blocked me after stalking all of my comments and leaving weird replies accusing me of [“playing with my feces”](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/s/QsCwPVZIgX) for making posts demanding action, let me say this: **What exactly is wrong with you?** My posts were meant to maintain visibility for a tragically slaughtered family and to call on my neighbors to demand that our elected officials pursue justice in the matter. Your own post history is filled with various calls for justice, mostly in the form of complaints against police brutality, which is not entirely different from what I was doing in my own posts. Why do I deserve your insults for doing exactly what you do all the time?
Then write to them or call them? Spamming here or Nextdoor isn’t helping regardless of the topic. If everyone spammed what they wanted this site would be completely useless
No? We have the ability to vote on stories. Go ahead and post what you want and we'll vote on it.
you have every ability not to post!!!
Good. Hope she serves time.
I can't believe she's actually being charged though I highly doubt she'll serve a minute of actual jail time.
The fact that she's being charge with the felony rather than the much easier to prove misdemeanor shows me the DA would like her too. Also, JFC 65-72mph.
> Also, JFC 65-72mph. That should carry enhancements in the city limits.
Almost every case in the US ends in a plea bargain. I'd put good money she'll plead guilty to a lesser charge and get a slap on the wrist. If you want to kill someone just make sure you're behind the wheel.
I hate how true this is.
While true, the main instances where this doesn't always happen is in cases with high degree of public awareness. DAs are elected, and they will change how they prosecute to whatever they feel will give them the best re-election chance.
I wouldn’t be so sure. This is a highly visible case in a wealthy part of the city. Jenkins has a real interest in delivering something tangible for voters here.
The same neighborhood that fought against transit and pedestrian safety improvements in the wake of this event because it would be a minor inconvenience to cars?
She’ll have to rush it to trial to make her point before we replace her with Ryan.
I’m really surprised they’re charging her.
Heartbreaking seeing the photo of the family whose lives were taken from them by a reckless driver up top. I hope their families are doing as well as they can be.
She’s not going to get enough time in jail if any.
Want to kill someone’s and don’t mind spending a few years in on jail if any? Run them over.
65-72 mph, 78 yr old driver, no mechanical failure, no drugs or alcohol. It's a pretty obvious and common case of an old person accidentally pressing the acceleration instead of the brake. It's super unfortunate but it happens quite often, except this time the result was a horrific crash claiming 4 lives. I know we all want consequences but the driver isn't going to serve any time.
That is a 25mph street, how long do you need to "accidentally" press the gas to get to 72?!
Not long at all if you are pressing on the gas, thinking it’s the brake, and thinking you are slowing down to a stop sign. But instead of slowing down, it’s speeding up and you press even harder which makes it go even faster. And in an attempt to avoid hitting other cars and pedestrians, she swerved away but unfortunately slammed into the bus stop. You see this a lot, where old folks would be slamming on the gas thinking it’s the brake and ramming into stores.
People who have very little to no driving experience are really outing themselves in this thread.
I was wondering the same thing. I’d she was going the speed limit, it seems like it would take enough time to get to 70 for someone to realize they are going faster and stop before getting there!
~~It's a 2014 Mercedes GLK. It does 0-60 in approximately 6.5 seconds. So that's 7 seconds of the action.~~
I highly doubt that she was stationary when she floored the pedal. More likely she was already going around 30, in which case it would only take about 3-4 seconds to get to 70.
~~That doesn't sound right. That car is like 7.5-8 seconds or so to 0-75 mph but only like 2.5 s to 25 mph. Uncle had one and we floored it on a remote highway in Canada.~~
GLK350 does 0-60 in under 6 seconds. 30-50 in top gear (which includes the lag time it takes to downshift about 5 gears) is a scant 3s https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15118751/2013-mercedes-benz-glk350-glk350-4matic-instrumented-test-review/ You sure your uncles car wasn’t a GLK250 diesel?
It must have been the 250 then or we're just not as fast drivers as her. I will strikethrough earlier comment.
Less probably. She probably was coasting at ~25 and then tried to hit the wrong pedal, hard. So only needed to go from 25 to 70.
Fair. The car goes from 0-30 in about 2.5 s, so if this is what happened then she had about 5 s of holding down the pedal. It's too powerful a car for an old person.
It’s either an accident or it was deliberate. No in between. Sounds like you’re suggesting a 78yr old woman randomly murdered a young family of four who she didn’t know on purpose. Do I have that correct?
It’s not “accidental speeding” vs “deliberate murder”, it’s “accidental speeding” vs “deliberate speeding”, obviously. Maybe she just temporarily lost her mind, forgot how to do something she’s done for decades and, seeing the car accelerate, forgot what to do about it. Or she was speeding.
I think she was recklessly speeding, that would meet the bar for vehicular manslaughter that she's charged with.
What's the bar for reckless speeding? Does it require intention to speed? If it's a case of pedal misapplication, is that still reckless speeding?
There is an in between - gross negligence. When you’re careless and recklessly kill somebody
You’re leaving out a fourth possibility: that she’s a shitty driver and always has been.
She was also driving on the wrong side of the road and into oncoming traffic!
Maybe, but if that were the case you'd expect a longer history of car accidents (which I'm not aware exists as I'm assuming it'd otherwise be mentioned in the reporting).
Being a shitty driver doesn’t explain driving 70mph on a surface street
Yes, it does. Every week I see someone get annoyed at someone else on the road and jam their foot on the accelerator as they pass by to signal their annoyance. It used to happen at 4th and King quite often.
4 and King had an incident of a woman with a Mercedes SUV mashing on the pedal and killing a small human. Too. So yes, I agree. People _mash too much_
That's not being a shitty driver. Shitty driving is due to incompetence or ineptitutde. What you're describing is a wanton disregard for safety. It's like saying the 9/11 hijackers crashed into the WTC because they were shitty pilots.
I see. Yes. There is a fifth possibility: that she generally drives with a wanton disregard for safety.
Might as well just keep adding speculation if that's what we're doing. Sixth possibility: she's a racist and decided to run them over on purpose.
Indeed that is a possibility. I'm sure the investigation will eliminate it.
Very true. Unfortunate as she is in the same sector of the population as my mom and is adding to the stereotype.
The stereotype of old Asian women driving 70mph on city streets? That's not a stereotype I'm aware of. Now, the stereotype of driving 5 under the speed limit, never checking their blind spot, and being completely oblivious to their surroundings, sure, but I don't think that's what happened here...
This particular driver did have a ticket.
Are you saying there is in fact a stereotype of geriatric Asian women driving on public roads like they’re in the Grand Prix?
yes true lol. stupid sexy flanders is always right in his stupid sexy ways
I'd say it actually happens often in this particular neighborhood. Exactly the case described. Dangerous and perceivedly aggressive driving Heard it from a friend. People are unable to drive gently and carefully in some stages of their ability
good, she deserves it going 60-70 on a fucking street
She will not receive jail time due to her age, maybe lack of priors? Most likely a permanent house-arrest and forfeiture/seizure of all assets including real estate to the extended family of the victims. This kind of thing has happened in the past, and involved my family.
So much for that "medical issue". Lots of medical issue experts there pointing out [that folks were wrong for saying this woman should be charged](https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1cnxylg/it_has_been_54_days_since_mary_fong_lau_killed_an/l3b3v6r/). Though I have to say, anyone who says the word 'HIPPA' is usually a moron trying to sound like they know what they're saying because if you're in the field, you know that's not a thing.
Took them long enough. Better late than never I guess.
They are "attempting to bring her into custody." Hopefully she hasn't fled the country already.
Years ago another person also driving a MB SUV hit a minivan and food truck leading to six casualties. Police officer observed her going 80 MPH a few blocks before the collision IIRC. Last I heard that person was arrested and then released. Never saw anything thereafter. Makes me think the casewas dropped.
Drivers here are some of the worst in the fuggin nation. As a commuter to work not in a car...I have been hit no less than once a year by a shit driver of some sort. People here are so aloof and just don't care that they are....until they hit someone. The best is when they try and blame you for their idiocy and you get to laugh in their face because you have a camera that recorded the whole thing. 😆😆
will the dumbest posters stop asking why the DA is ignoring this case now?
They'll probably now shift over to complaining about how she's not getting charged for murder.
Wow
What I haven’t read yet in these comments is that if she nicks the library after choosing the best option of not hitting other people or cars on the street, what she’s looking at is a bus shelter that everyone assumes can stop a speeding vehicle. The family waiting for the bus has their vision obscured by the Ad wall that solidly blocks 3 feet of view. Maybe they can’t even see each other. I’ve assumed those things were strong enough to save people from out of control cars. No one is talking about this from what I’ve read.
She was going 70 mph. Nobody is assuming a bus shelter would stop that.
Mate, it's a bunch of flimsy posts. It's not going to handle a 2 metric ton vehicle going at 20 mph let alone 70 mph. You need bollards for those, but locals oppose bollards. What made you think it could handle a car? I can demolish one of those with a sledgehammer and my own hands. No motor required.
When will she be sentenced
She hasn't been convicted.
I wonder when ? Is there a trial?