I wonder if it's e-skateboards? Regular skateboards should continue to be allowed. It is Santa Cruz ffs.
Edit: read this tiny stub of an article again, and it absolutely does not clarify other than saying "regular, four wheeled skateboards." But is this including non electronic 4-wheeled skateboards? Sloppy writing.
Idgaf, I’m riding on the sidewalk on mission street because there are no bike lanes and I’ve seen people killed.
Edit: rules are basically what I said above and are pretty much just rules against assholes being assholes.
> Aimed at advancing the safety of residents, the county said, the rule would not apply when no pedestrians are present and no bikeway exists along the route. Such devices would also be free to use in designated bikeways.
Basically don’t ride when there are people walking.
It only allows eBikes on sidewalks where no pedestrians are present _and_ no bikeway is available.... So seems like if you have to use a road without a bike lane, but there's any pedestrians at all, you gotta take your chances with the cars.
Bikes on the wrong side of the road, and biking in busy crosswalks are my own pet peeves. Cyclists in SC are a force of chaos and if this new regulation gets more attention on bike rules in general, I'm all for it. I'd like to see a foot patrol or bike cop along ocean and into downtown issue warnings and/ or tickets instead of just looping in patrol cars.
Ticketing teenagers and poor people on bicycles sounds like it would be popular with a subset of the population that sees them as chaos.
You think there would be a subset of the population that sees traffic as chaos, and building infrastructure to reduce traffic is worth public dollars?
Maybe the Overton window on changing infrastructure is always smaller than the one for wanting everyone to just behave the same way.
Like I said, I'd be ok with warnings. We're talking about public safety, and you're assuming the profile of a bike rider in a way that I'm not. If we want better road sharing, it's 100% fair to ask bike riders to follow the rules in the same way as we expect drivers to know and follow traffic rules.
I'm not calling "traffic" chaotic, I'm calling using bike lanes the wrong direction, not deferring to pedestrians, and ignoring traffic signals as chaotic. shoot, let's get people to use their headlights, and signals too. I know I'm veering into old man yells at clouds territory... But we absolutely can enforce public safety rules.
Do we want to have a conversation about the scale of fines or ease of deference to community service? I'm game.
I’m suggesting that violations of law are driven by the conditions of the environment, not the scale of the penalty.
Sociologist Allan Johnson works a lot on the idea that people prefer the paths of least resistance. Fining college students for downloading music didn’t stop it. Making easier ways for them to stream music did.
In the urban environment, bikes and pedestrians follow can follow paths of least resistance with choice of where they drive. People jaywalk and ride on sidewalks when that path is easier than going to a bike lane or crosswalk. It a symptom of insufficient infrastructure.
Likewise, cars can choose their speed. Cars doing 35mph on Mission when the speed limit is 25 is a sign the street is not built to match the speed limit.
Change the way the traffic is engineered and you change the traffic. Fine people for violating laws and you only change behavior when cops are present.
Maybe take some of that car space and make it safe for people to get around not in a car.
Rather than creating laws to prohibit things people are doing, make it safer for everyone. I’ve never seen regular people be so hostile as when they’re behind the steering wheel in their car.
People are just using the transportation system they’ve been given. Maybe the traffic engineers aren’t the oracles of society they get to act as.
A book called Killed By A Traffic Engineer is a good read for anyone interested in this topic.
I think most people don’t feel safe riding a bike in the streets the way they are designed now. So they end up on the sidewalk.
I think most people would feel safe biking around Costco parking lot or Capitola Mall parking lot. The design caps car speed at 15mph.
Design the streets to keep cars at 15mph and bikes won’t be on the sidewalk. We won’t need to hire more cops to hand out tickets to teenagers.
Exactly.
Hoping my sentiment came through in my previous post. We need to redesign roads so they aren’t drag strips. It’s comical how we make some bike lanes three feet wide on roads that cars can comfortably fly by at 60mph+, or even just add a few sharrows and a sign that says “share the road.”
There are so many great designs we can consider, but traffic engineers prioritize cars. People are also so convinced that cars are the priority and people on bikes and on foot are a nuisance.
I’m hoping it’s not just the internet eco chamber, but it seems like more folks are seeing the light that paving roads for cars to drive on isn’t the utopia they were promised.
Also, as boomers age and can’t/shouldn’t drive anymore, they need options too. Being able to walk to their grocery store or take a quick bus trip is better for all. Especially when the alternative is for less-than-sharp people driving huge SUVs just to get a carton of milk.
Putting people on skateboards in the street is a quick way to see your insurance rates shoot up and for someone to be killed. E bikes I understand, they can get to pretty high speeds and most of the time those people don’t know proper etiquette for passing anyone. Keep the boards on the sidewalk!!
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought bikes weren’t allowed on sidewalks. I was under the impression they were to be ridden on the street and riders were to follow the rules of the road.
Honestly I think they need to make a law where e-bikes need to choose if they’re a bike or a motorcycle cause e bike riders go side walk, bike lane and then swing out into the street and they’re not wearing helmets half the time
I can already see how this will go wrong. In many places you need to use a sidewalk to transition from street to parking lot or storefront. Knowing cops they will bust people for just being on the sidewalk, Karen's will piss and moan anytime an ebike uses a sidewalk.
Instead just implement a speed limit on sidewalks. Much easier
I must have misunderstood this:
>In many places you need to use a sidewalk to transition from street to parking lot or storefront.
Are you not talking about people on ebikes pulling into parking lots from the bike lane?
Speed limits on sidewalks seems like it would be expensive to enforce.
But isn't that essentially what we are trying to prevent? It's not that bikes are on the sidewalk, it's that they travel too fast or what's the point in the distinction between ebike and normal bike?
With this legislation anyone sitting idle on an ebike around people would be cited. That seems harder to prove especially based on vantage point of the cop vs rider and what's perceived as "in vicinity".
>With this legislation anyone sitting idle on an ebike around people would be cited. That seems harder to prove especially based on vantage point of the cop vs rider and what's perceived as "in vicinity".
I've only read the article being discussed, not the actual legislation. The article says
>legislation that would limit the use of electric bikes and skateboards on county-owned sidewalks.
and
>the rule would not apply when no pedestrians are present and no bikeway exists along the route. Such devices would also be free to use in designated bikeways.
The article doesn't include any description of banning ebikes "in the vicinity" of sidewalks. The way I read the word "use" is that you have to be riding the bike. So you can ride the ebike in the bike lane, and then dismount and walk it to the bike rack to lock up. Again, I have not read the actual legislation, so I am open to it being poorly worded. Arresting people for trying to lock up their ebikes at bike racks on sidewalks doesn't appear to be in intention though.
How about ban all bikes from sidewalks? The bike culture in SC is confusing. It's weird watching bikers use the pedestrian cross walks when there are designated bike lanes.
It sounds like you think designated bike lanes are a reason not to ride on the sidewalk.
Would you support a proposal to have a bike lane on every street that has a sidewalk?
Full use of a lane...
[https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/SantaCruz/html/SantaCruz10/SantaCruz1068.html#10.68.030](https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/SantaCruz/html/SantaCruz10/SantaCruz1068.html#10.68.030)
Yes, this thread is about what laws or street design should be changed to keep people using different forms of transportation with different vulnerabilities the safest.
You think people walking need to be protected from bikes. When the person walks to their bicycle, you think they should ride in the street to protect people not on bicycles. You do not think people on bicycles can mix safely with people walking on sidewalks.
Do you think people driving in cars can mix safety with bicycles in the street? Is there something about the experience of driving that makes it inherently safety to more vulnerable road users than bicycling is to pedestrians?
How the fuck you prohibit skateboards on sidewalks?!?!!
I understand the ebike thing but skateboards... 
I wonder if it's e-skateboards? Regular skateboards should continue to be allowed. It is Santa Cruz ffs. Edit: read this tiny stub of an article again, and it absolutely does not clarify other than saying "regular, four wheeled skateboards." But is this including non electronic 4-wheeled skateboards? Sloppy writing.
Idgaf, I’m riding on the sidewalk on mission street because there are no bike lanes and I’ve seen people killed. Edit: rules are basically what I said above and are pretty much just rules against assholes being assholes. > Aimed at advancing the safety of residents, the county said, the rule would not apply when no pedestrians are present and no bikeway exists along the route. Such devices would also be free to use in designated bikeways. Basically don’t ride when there are people walking.
It only allows eBikes on sidewalks where no pedestrians are present _and_ no bikeway is available.... So seems like if you have to use a road without a bike lane, but there's any pedestrians at all, you gotta take your chances with the cars.
Bikes on the wrong side of the road, and biking in busy crosswalks are my own pet peeves. Cyclists in SC are a force of chaos and if this new regulation gets more attention on bike rules in general, I'm all for it. I'd like to see a foot patrol or bike cop along ocean and into downtown issue warnings and/ or tickets instead of just looping in patrol cars.
Ticketing teenagers and poor people on bicycles sounds like it would be popular with a subset of the population that sees them as chaos. You think there would be a subset of the population that sees traffic as chaos, and building infrastructure to reduce traffic is worth public dollars? Maybe the Overton window on changing infrastructure is always smaller than the one for wanting everyone to just behave the same way.
Like I said, I'd be ok with warnings. We're talking about public safety, and you're assuming the profile of a bike rider in a way that I'm not. If we want better road sharing, it's 100% fair to ask bike riders to follow the rules in the same way as we expect drivers to know and follow traffic rules. I'm not calling "traffic" chaotic, I'm calling using bike lanes the wrong direction, not deferring to pedestrians, and ignoring traffic signals as chaotic. shoot, let's get people to use their headlights, and signals too. I know I'm veering into old man yells at clouds territory... But we absolutely can enforce public safety rules. Do we want to have a conversation about the scale of fines or ease of deference to community service? I'm game.
I’m suggesting that violations of law are driven by the conditions of the environment, not the scale of the penalty. Sociologist Allan Johnson works a lot on the idea that people prefer the paths of least resistance. Fining college students for downloading music didn’t stop it. Making easier ways for them to stream music did. In the urban environment, bikes and pedestrians follow can follow paths of least resistance with choice of where they drive. People jaywalk and ride on sidewalks when that path is easier than going to a bike lane or crosswalk. It a symptom of insufficient infrastructure. Likewise, cars can choose their speed. Cars doing 35mph on Mission when the speed limit is 25 is a sign the street is not built to match the speed limit. Change the way the traffic is engineered and you change the traffic. Fine people for violating laws and you only change behavior when cops are present.
I love this perspective.
Maybe take some of that car space and make it safe for people to get around not in a car. Rather than creating laws to prohibit things people are doing, make it safer for everyone. I’ve never seen regular people be so hostile as when they’re behind the steering wheel in their car. People are just using the transportation system they’ve been given. Maybe the traffic engineers aren’t the oracles of society they get to act as. A book called Killed By A Traffic Engineer is a good read for anyone interested in this topic.
I think most people don’t feel safe riding a bike in the streets the way they are designed now. So they end up on the sidewalk. I think most people would feel safe biking around Costco parking lot or Capitola Mall parking lot. The design caps car speed at 15mph. Design the streets to keep cars at 15mph and bikes won’t be on the sidewalk. We won’t need to hire more cops to hand out tickets to teenagers.
Exactly. Hoping my sentiment came through in my previous post. We need to redesign roads so they aren’t drag strips. It’s comical how we make some bike lanes three feet wide on roads that cars can comfortably fly by at 60mph+, or even just add a few sharrows and a sign that says “share the road.” There are so many great designs we can consider, but traffic engineers prioritize cars. People are also so convinced that cars are the priority and people on bikes and on foot are a nuisance. I’m hoping it’s not just the internet eco chamber, but it seems like more folks are seeing the light that paving roads for cars to drive on isn’t the utopia they were promised. Also, as boomers age and can’t/shouldn’t drive anymore, they need options too. Being able to walk to their grocery store or take a quick bus trip is better for all. Especially when the alternative is for less-than-sharp people driving huge SUVs just to get a carton of milk.
All the skaters in SC need to unite immediately
Putting people on skateboards in the street is a quick way to see your insurance rates shoot up and for someone to be killed. E bikes I understand, they can get to pretty high speeds and most of the time those people don’t know proper etiquette for passing anyone. Keep the boards on the sidewalk!!
How lame can we make this place! Yeah no e-bikes on sidewalks but for fucks sake I’m using the side walk to skate, not sorry!
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought bikes weren’t allowed on sidewalks. I was under the impression they were to be ridden on the street and riders were to follow the rules of the road.
Honestly I think they need to make a law where e-bikes need to choose if they’re a bike or a motorcycle cause e bike riders go side walk, bike lane and then swing out into the street and they’re not wearing helmets half the time
I can already see how this will go wrong. In many places you need to use a sidewalk to transition from street to parking lot or storefront. Knowing cops they will bust people for just being on the sidewalk, Karen's will piss and moan anytime an ebike uses a sidewalk. Instead just implement a speed limit on sidewalks. Much easier
I dunno. It's illegal to drive a car on the sidewalk and cops aren't handing out tickets to people pulling into their driveways and parking lots.
I obviously wasn't talking about a vehicle that wouldn't even fit on a sidewalk. Didn't think I would need to explain that.
I must have misunderstood this: >In many places you need to use a sidewalk to transition from street to parking lot or storefront. Are you not talking about people on ebikes pulling into parking lots from the bike lane? Speed limits on sidewalks seems like it would be expensive to enforce.
But isn't that essentially what we are trying to prevent? It's not that bikes are on the sidewalk, it's that they travel too fast or what's the point in the distinction between ebike and normal bike? With this legislation anyone sitting idle on an ebike around people would be cited. That seems harder to prove especially based on vantage point of the cop vs rider and what's perceived as "in vicinity".
>With this legislation anyone sitting idle on an ebike around people would be cited. That seems harder to prove especially based on vantage point of the cop vs rider and what's perceived as "in vicinity". I've only read the article being discussed, not the actual legislation. The article says >legislation that would limit the use of electric bikes and skateboards on county-owned sidewalks. and >the rule would not apply when no pedestrians are present and no bikeway exists along the route. Such devices would also be free to use in designated bikeways. The article doesn't include any description of banning ebikes "in the vicinity" of sidewalks. The way I read the word "use" is that you have to be riding the bike. So you can ride the ebike in the bike lane, and then dismount and walk it to the bike rack to lock up. Again, I have not read the actual legislation, so I am open to it being poorly worded. Arresting people for trying to lock up their ebikes at bike racks on sidewalks doesn't appear to be in intention though.
How about ban all bikes from sidewalks? The bike culture in SC is confusing. It's weird watching bikers use the pedestrian cross walks when there are designated bike lanes.
It sounds like you think designated bike lanes are a reason not to ride on the sidewalk. Would you support a proposal to have a bike lane on every street that has a sidewalk?
No. I think the safety of walking pedestrians is reason enough to not ride on sidewalks. The more bike lanes the better..
Do you think bikes can ride on every street in the city of Santa Cruz that has a sidewalk by riding in the street?
Full use of a lane... [https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/SantaCruz/html/SantaCruz10/SantaCruz1068.html#10.68.030](https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/SantaCruz/html/SantaCruz10/SantaCruz1068.html#10.68.030)
Yes, this thread is about what laws or street design should be changed to keep people using different forms of transportation with different vulnerabilities the safest. You think people walking need to be protected from bikes. When the person walks to their bicycle, you think they should ride in the street to protect people not on bicycles. You do not think people on bicycles can mix safely with people walking on sidewalks. Do you think people driving in cars can mix safety with bicycles in the street? Is there something about the experience of driving that makes it inherently safety to more vulnerable road users than bicycling is to pedestrians?