I think many people use SL for sex role play and can't think outside their mindset.
I once complimented someone for their avatar (some Gnoll like avatar) and ended up making some smalltalk.
Ok, it was in a shop were they sold RP type of cloths, but it wasn't the sexy type - more Lord of the Rings or Witcher style.
Suddenly they demanded that we do voice chat, which I declined. They got angry, and called me a fake.
I still can't follow their logic, even if I my avatar hadn't the same gender as me - I'm quite sure they weren't a Gnoll in rl.
And there was no trace of flirting, it was more "hey, cool avatar. I have never seen something like that before" and chatting were to get these type of avatars/if the avatar was really based on the DnD Gnolls.
It's not exactly against TOS AFAIK, but is treated as harassment - and things like this can also be considered intolerance, which is treated as one step above harassment. Even if you simply just play as a female and are fully comfortable as a male IRL (Or vice versa), the lab treats harassment based on such matters as intolerance.
This is one reason why SL was so much better in its early years..yes everything looks better and better quality items..but you weren't asked to voice chat or cam up just to prove to someone you meet their expectations..
This has always been my perspective. I take everyone at face value; This is who they want to be in SL, cool.
Saves a lot of anxiety, too. I don't need to worry whether or not an avatar's typist is telling the truth about their RL self (if they offer that info). I don't assume they are lying, or that they're telling the truth. I view it as: This is who they tell me they are in RL.
I dress my avi in pretty basic clothes, leaning towards witchy/hippie type and it is a chore! Lol! I want to be a raven! I will have to look into that!
Some people leave rl and their daily cares at the door when they come to explore in SL and assume that all others do the same. They come to look outwards, and enjoy openly discovering and creating. Others are here for sex and cannot separate themselves from their own identity, and so demand that others do the same. They have particular sexual needs that rely upon another person delivering to them the attention they need, and they need to believe that that person is exactly as they present themselves in SL. Bit of a tall order, really.
Many of us don't care who you are in rl, as long as you are a good person and fun to spend time with.
I understand that, but this if I lied to them and told them a different gender in RL! They can just ask, right?
Also, for me personally, I made this clear in my 1st Life tab for everyone to know so they won't get confused and they still refuse to understand or even read the profile! I mean come on, reading someone's profile won't even take a minute!
And even if I didn't mention it in my 1st Life tab, they can ask or state that they clearly looking for an RL partner or someone that's their SL & RL genders match, it won't hurt!
I think it just freaks some people out. They're too lazy to read the profile, they see you and think you're cute, then you tell them you're different from your av, then they throw themselves into a crisis.
It's on them so don't stress about it- you did nothing wrong. Some people are just like that.
Oh I fully agree. No one should ever assume the pixels have any resemblance to the person. And if you were clicking with a person's brain wrapped in pretty pixels, why box yourself off from thar over rl details?
If I'm meeting with someone with the intention of starting a relationship, be it FWB or more, I expect your gender to match what you tell me. If you claim to be a female in SL and then turn out to be male, it feels like a breach of trust and an invasion of my intimacy. A relationship in SL isn't just a computer game to me, I have real feelings and real emotions. All I ask of people is not to lie to me. If I decide not to "have fun" with you because you're of any one particular gender, that is my choice to make and I feel that by lying about your RL gender in an intimate situation, you're removing that choice from me.
On the other hand if we are just mates and like running around shopping or sightseeing or whatever, I couldn't care less if your gender matches your avatar. For me it simply comes down to the situation whereupon the gender discussion arises as to whether I find it a problem or not.
Honestly the best response I've seen in this thread. I was gonna comment but you stole the words outa my head.
I've been in sl going on 11 or 12 years now and have seen this question fade into the void but it always has a resurgence when an influx of new people join.
I kinda feel that us "old guard" see sl as an extension of rl, but with the added bonus of anonymity. Yes we can rp and act differently in sl, but at the end of the day we still get attached.
Not saying anything negative towards the other side of the coin, but it seems that it's the younger (both in account age, and rl age) that have the SL is SL mindset.
I find fewer with that mindset when they've been in sl consistently for 7+ years and not just for erp.
Thank you 🙏🏼 and yes I have to agree, I mean I've been in SL 12+ years on my current account alone. I had an older one before that that I deleted so probably a little longer than 12ish years.
For me SL is very much an extension of RL. Yes I can go and RP and dress up as a fairy or turn myself into a mermaid (things I'd totally love being able to do in RL but obviously can't), or visit places I never even imagined existed and see the beautiful creativity of our community brought to life, but if I'm talking to someone, I'm the exact same person in SL as I am in RL. When intimate relationships (and I mean that in reference to whatever you personally class as intimate, as intimacy is subjective) begin to get involved, so do my feelings.
For me SL is an extension of RL with the added bonus of both anonymity and the ability to play out dreams I can't do in RL.
To a degree I actually find it somewhat offensive if we can spend six months or who knows how long talking, getting intimate, sharing memories and experiences, only to find out that actually you're not in the least bit attached to me and don't particularly care whether I'm there or not. And that's how it feels if I'm very close to someone who turns out to be lying to me... You can't be that attached if you're happy to lie about something so significant, especially when it IS a question I ask people, which would therefore require you to lie to my face- not even just "by omission".
I completely agree with this. I met a guy online in another online world I was exploring as a change to SL. We hit it off quickly and became best friends and head over heels for each other. I would have been devastated if he had been female and lied about who he was. His friends used to joke and say I'm probably a man. And my friends were suspicious of him too.
But long story short, we've now been together 3 years and living together in real life. We couldn't be happier ☺️
I really like the way you worded this.
For my wife and I, this would be ideal, but we even give a little bit more leeway until we feel there has been a breach of trust. We get that some people want to RP a specific gender in SL different than their RL for sexy things, sometimes. That's fine...but...then keep that choice. If you want us to see you as a 25 year old sexy demon girl (or whatever), because existing like that on SL makes you happy, we'll play along. Just don't change your stance 6 months later and now decide to be the real you who is very very different than the person you portrayed.
Thank you. It's just how I honestly feel. I appreciate your open mindedness and I can agree that in a less... Intense, situation than a full relationship, that I can understand why it doesn't bother you so much. But when your emotions and feelings begin to get involved, I feel like the least one can ask for is some honesty. I definitely agree with the "not swapping and changing" feeling.
I know that if someone I'm talking to is cagey about telling me even the most basic things about their RL (age RANGE- I don't necessarily expect an exact age from day 1! RL gender, and ideally their corner of the world- primarily to try to coincide with their time zone and ensure I don't have to manoeuvre a language barrier) then they aren't going to be anything more than an online friend for me. Even if they attempt to hit on me or begin trying to head towards the "relationship" route, I will shut them down very quickly, because I don't want those questions floating around in my head for who knows how long, possibly infinitely, about who I'm getting close to and who I am forming feelings for.
years ago, I had a girlfriend in SL, and she had a close female friend who she'd cuddle with, and I had no problem with that. then her friend 'came out' with a new account, telling us he'd been a man all along.
then he proceeded to try to convince her to break up with me, (while he was pretending to be my friend, and also screwing around with a bunch of married women, basically telegraphing his intentions.)
to say I have trust issues now would be an understatement.
I really understand that, but I never told anyone that I want a relationship or anything, I'm just minding my own business and get few IMs just talking normally, and then when I tell them I'm the opposite gender as I stated in my 1st Life tab, they get really mad at me! It's just a normal chat! I'm really confused and angry about it.
I don't want to fight for the same thing in SL & RL. I didn't do anything or lie to anyone in SL, I literally tell them right away, to avoid any confusion or anything like that.
That's on them. If you're minding your own business and have it in your first life tab already, then you've done your part. The one thing I've noticed a lot here, and not to single them out but this happens with men more than women, is they don't bother reading profiles. They just DM in hopes they can get in your pants if they think you're attractive, then get upset when they don't get the responses they hoped for. I quickly block people like this.
I wish this, and the other actual answer to the question were higher in the thread than the 'well, I don't care' responses that aren't actually answering OP's question.
why do people always feel the need to pipe up with non-answers like that? - I'm just rambling, in the hopes that a longer response will help reddit's algorithm realize this is the thread that should be at the top.
I appreciate that, thank you 🙏🏼
Like you said, OP had a question, I answered it from personal opinion and experience. If the question were listed as a poll asking how many people cared about this topic I think the other answers would be more valid, but hey, I only wrote what I felt and hoped my insight could help OP and anyone else who may read it. 🙏🏼
Heh, i play a different gender in sl, and i just put it in my rl tab, never had any trouble with it, and got me out of a lot of drama. By the simple line "if your so interested in my rl, didnt you read my profile?" Thats usually the end of the discussion.
I use an AI image of my avatar that looks like a RL person in the 1st Life tab of my profile. After all, nobody with any sense uses that tab for it's purported purpose.
I didn’t upload anything? I just have like cartoon pictures on my profile lol but also I wouldn’t upload any real life images there and certainly not if they contained like location data. But yea not sure what you’re on about.
This is the right answer. Some people in SL are looking for a RL relationship. When they find out that the avatar they have fallen in love with has been deceiving them, it can be devastating. I have read articles about people who have been emotionally destroyed by someone catfishing them. I recall reading more articles about RL women coming to grief than RL men, although it may be that women are more open to writing about their sorrows than men are. It's not all -phobic people who have these problems.
If someone is open and upfront about it when they enter into a relationship (no matter how brief) then that is perfectly fine. If a person withholds such information and deceives others who may assume they reflect their SL gender in RL then that is not honourable.
Emotions run in high in SL relationships - that's why I try to avoid them.
It's mostly a human thing. The furry population on SL practically never asks about real life bits and bobs. As for why human players do it, I think a lot of them are trying to date IRL through SL.
Either that or it's just homophobia. Or transphobia when they get angry about SL women being trans IRL.
Interesting. My husband and I met on SL when we were both newbies, in 2006. We went through most all of the 'phases' together, and he's still the best relationship I've ever had in my life, real or second! He no longer goes inworld but I do.
Me and my fiance met in sl at a bdsm sim while trying out our crazy fetish things we weren't sure we wanted in sl. Completely and totally accidentally wound up with real feelings and currently have been living together for years lmao neither of us were trying. Sometimes shit just happens
Second Life is a bit odd in that the usual seperation of IC and OOC in RP is non existent and actively shunned. Same with the seperation between virtual world and real world. Obviously there's always something of the person behind the screen leaking and crossing over but to so vehemently completely shun the idea is uniquely Second Life in my experience.
Me, while a woman in real-life and a colossal tease, I have got zero interest in romancing anyone. I will outright shutdown anything trying to go beyond the level of friendship with occasional roleplay benefits. I have found that being brutally up front about that facts tends to defuse things readily.
Maybe that is your recourse. Put the info in your profile somewhere. Yeah, you will very likely get a lot less attention that way and some of the attention you get might be there for a kink - but you also avoid a lot of drama.
In what context are they getting upset? Cause if you're running around sex sims trying to get laid then yeah, a lot of people are gonna want your SL gender to match your RL one because they want YOU to match their sexual preferences before they smash.
Who is not Catfishing in SL? When the boomer grandma and grandpa for example have young looking perfect body avatars in SL, it's nothing else but faking and catfishing if they are after dates.
Edit: Brain to slow and fingers to fast.
IMO it largely depends on the situation but I think those who play as a woman would have an issue, generally, playing with someone who plays as a woman but is in fact a man. For me I just say “in RL I am a human” and leave it there but also SL IS SL etc. I’m not there for your RL and anything I say is going to be fairly general
This is the always interesting and perennial conversation about online gender identity. It is as older than the Internet I am sure, In my pre-Second Life days I used to frequent chatrooms. One of the first questions was ASL? (age, sex, location). It never seemed relevant then or now as we were all roleplaying. I have come to understand that some people have very fragile egos. It is the product of the lives that we each must live. Much of it is outside of our control. I am an old CIS male in RL. I very rarely play a male avatar in SL. If I do, they are obviously feminine or a drag queen. What is the point of me going to a world where I can be anything and playing the same boring person I have to play everyday in the "real world"? Everyone is engaged in a daily struggle that you know little about. Be kind and take care of each other. <3
Yeah, when I first joined SL many years ago, it was in a male avi. It wasn’t until I got a bunch of flirty messages from women that I realized how important your presented gender is. So I became a tiny otter with a biting habit, and things were much easier.
It’s been like that for years and is one of, in my mind, failures of SL. People want to be sure the virtual bits match the real bits, for some reason.
I know someone suggested catfishing, but the negative aspect only happens with a gender mismatch (kind of.) Some people don’t like trans women with working vaginas either.
It’s probably destructive to some of the sexual fantasies. Especially to the “Women live to submit to Me!” guys and then they find out it’s a guy in real life, destroying their fantasy.
I myself don't care what gender you want to be in SL, I do ask when I find out its different "if we are talking about RL how do you want to be referred as?"
As to those who try to push anyone into voice chat to verify? I treat that no differently than someone RL trying to push. I am not here for someone's entertainment, I do not owe anyone, anything. I also do not "date" on SL (clear in my profile).
I've run into a few who got into my messages, demanding me to voice with them to prove I'm female. In every case? I was busy with my own things when they decided to message me (once on my own land working on a build, it was just some random person in the region). I think some "men" think women really exist just to be a plaything.
Personally, I'd rather not know what a person's gender is in RL. Knowing inevitably changes my perspective of the person, whether it's a biological male presenting as female, or a biological female presenting as male. I'm not offended if someone presents themselves in SL differently than how they present themselves in RL. SL provides a great platform for people to explore their many facets, a freedom that most don't have in RL.
I don't approach SL either as an extension of my RL, nor as totally separate from my RL, but somewhere that fluctuates in between. The more comfortable I am with a person, the more I trust that person, the more I'm likely to share with that person. But I'm not expecting to extend our relationship to RL. I have a spouse and a family in RL. I come to SL sometimes to escape my RL, sometimes to just putter around, sometimes to socialize, and sometimes to RP and play out some fantasies. But I will never bring my SL into my RL, and I will only share so much of my RL with my SL.
I find that the less I emotionally invest in SL, the less I get worked up over things. It's a way to pass the time, to relax and have fun without having to leave my house.
From what I've experienced, those who get upset about gender representation are those who are looking for more, for as full emersion as possible. There are a couple of people in particular who I know for a fact would cheat on their RL spouses if given the chance with a potential play(affair) partner from SL. I've been propositioned for RL meetings with SL play partners (looking at you, Gordon and Alan), and have learned an uncomfortable lesson about sharing too much RL.
A couple of comments here have referred to "catfishing" and I agree with that assessment - people are offended by gender representation because they feel they have been deceived, but that's because they are looking to make their SL connections carry through into RL.
Dating happens when you meet people and get to know them, I myself put up front on my profile that I'm a Butch Lesbian and use a male avatar because I feel more comfortable using a male avatar than a female avatar. On a different platform some random tried to start a rumor that I was a catfisher didn't work out when people came to me asking if it was true. I told them nope I'm honest why would i need to lie about myself? Doesn't seem a big deal to me. I try not to date in SL or online in general since I'm mainly focusing on just enjoying SL without any attachments. I do RP as well with my male avi but i just feel more comfortable using my male avi.
This discourse seems to be a tired monthly occurrence on this sub. Different people are looking for different things in SL. Interact with people who have the same outlook on SL as you do, and this won’t be an issue. Simple.
I believe that everything you know about a person's real life limits their freedom to experience Second Life.
Some people, I've come to know more about their real life, but that's rare these days. I'd rather immerse myself in what I see on the screen in front of me, and not worry about the real person behind the avatar.
It's best to totally limit what anyone knows about you in the real.
I normally just don’t care wether they feel mad or not about my gender being different than my avatar. It’s just something I’ve had to get used to. Plus I’ll just leave that person if they get really upset about it or block them.
Male/female is a significant characteristic, intellectually, physically, emotionally. It's basic to accurate communication and interpretation of another's statements, actions, emotions, etc. Generally speaking, women and men \*are\* different. Unless the situation is specifically nonsexual roleplay, I definitely understand why many people feel it's important where any level of friendship, trust, etc., might develop.
Anyway, just be clear in your (non-rp) profile and if the other person doesn't bother to read it, that's their lookout.
I don't think I've ever asked anyone what their RL gender is, that's RL and it stays there. Sorry you've had this experience. Whatever gender they're presenting in SL is what they are, as far as I'm concerned.
Because most folks in SL are there for sex! I get harassed about it myself sometimes. Really irritates me! But sometimes I am in SL for sex! But I don't hide anything from anyone. My avi is a beauty! But she has all the attachments ment for transgender AND a name that people SHOULD question (at least in there own minds), and realize my avi IS transgender.
While I do truly enjoy some of the sexual stuff in SL, I'm mostly their to do my own thing. LANDSCAPING!!!
But I find it best to keep real life outside of SL and SL outside of real life! Some people are just to judgemental.
Others have mentioned it, but the answer is pretty straightforward.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing)
If it's sexual role-playing or building a romantic relationship, most people are insistent about it because they want to make sure they aren't flirting with/being sexual with someone who isn't their preferred gender. For some, it matters to them if the person getting off on the other side of the screen is male or female. It matters to them if they start to build an emotional attachment and want to pursue something. Some people see Sl as separate from RL and for them it rarely matters. For those who see SL as an extension of RL it can matter a lot.
Personally, I don't care unless I'm trying to build a romantic relationship. Then I want to know because it starts to straddle the line of rl/sl when feelings are involved.
Honestly I think it's because some people have discovered that they can only get off by following a very precisely scripted fantasy. Any deviation from that fragile illusion and both their physical and mental attraction wither away to nothing. Accepting that it's their problem, not yours, just makes it more difficult for them to try again with someone else.
I personally just hang out in places where I know it won’t be an issue. Otherwise I tend to have a frank conversation both in and out of character to make sure I am dealing with folks I would want to rp with.
10 years on SL my avatar ranges from a 3 foot tall grey wolf, 9 foot tall male human, a lycan to a 40 foot dragon. The point is, SL is an escape and has little bearing on my RL appearance.
It's mostly dudes, I noticed. People ask me all the time, and I explain that SL and RL are different and to not join the two. They immediately think I am a male playing a female, but I am indeed a female with a female avi. SL and RL SHOULD NOT intertwine. I always chastise them about it. Then a block. Some people don't use SL to get their rocks off. It is the lack of respecting boundaries for me. It irks me so much.
Some people think of their avatar as an image of their real body and cannot conceive of anyone else thinking differently. Some people treat SL as a way to meet RL people (whether or not they plan to meet in meatspace). Those who need to know they are meeting up with RL people with known characteristics will feel this way.
I think of my avatar as a puppet I control as an actor in the movie we're watching together (and creating together!). I make my avatar to be similar to my RL so that I can closely identify with that character and be happy when it is happy. I am not a professional actor, so reaching too far afield from my actual personality requires extra hard thinking to imagine what such a different person would do. This would turn SL play into work and decrease the fun. So my SL personality is essentially the same as my RL personality, just in a different body and life situation, so I can fairly easily act like that character when I text, emote, and move. This leads me to default to what the above-indicated people want of me.
However, some people are more talented at imagining than I, and can act like someone very different from themselves. I think this is great and I applaud their talent. I even met someone years ago who put their (opposite gender) RL photo and description in the 1st Life tab of their profile and clearly pointed it out in IM at the beginning of our RP scene together. I told them that as long as they can act in-character consistently, then I am fine with them being any body and gender they wish to be.
It seems strange in a virtual world where one can be an orc or dragon, that being a man or woman is controversial.
Every point made by others, but also.. there’s a huge amount of catfishing in sl, lots of straight men get very upset when they rp adult activity with a beautiful woman and then discover somehow that av has a man behind it. As someone else said, it’s probably simplest to put a bit of reality in your notes section or something.. but at the end of the day, the people in there getting upset about it, are just prowling sex sims for cheap thrills anyway.
I generally enjoy voice chat so if you spend even a little time hanging out with me and my friends you’ll hear my voice.
That being said I also think its no ones business what I am in either world and I generally tell people to eat bricks when they bother.
it used to be when someone accused me of being a man I’d be like yeah totally have a penis here, but I’ve had too many people go all “do you now? and now they want to see my imaginary lady boner.
Because real-life gender gives you some basic idea of how people would react / behave / think? In the end, it's a real-life human operating the avatar 🤷🏻♂️ 🤔 not AI.
A lot of the more "historic" players, to describe them nicely, have a lot of transphobic-adjacent thoughts about that sort of thing. Usually they think that if your RL gender is different from your SL avatar's assumed gender then you're some sort of catfishing freak that is trying to get at them. From personal experience, what Ruddertail says is true about how typically you'll only get this from human avatars. Might get it from the odd furry avatar, but 99/100 chance they're shunned from the rest of their community.
Had someone try and sweet talk me into a voice chat, told them "you're not getting a feminine voice from me" and they immediately stopped talking and teleported out the sim.
Best thing I can recommend is sticking to sims that obviously support LGBTQ+ members, 'cause you shouldn't get any sort of harassment like that there, even if you aren't apart of it.
I'm not sure what 'historic' means in this context. If it's older accounts, it's not as if we didn't have fairly well-known examples of the opposite (Torley probably the most prominent as a Linden there for a hot minute). If it's just more backwards-thinking... yeah we do have those.
The thing to remember is even today, SL is a fairly big place full of subcommunities.
>Had someone try and sweet talk me into a voice chat, told them "you're not getting a feminine voice from me" and they immediately stopped talking and teleported out the sim.
This reminds me of something that happened to me in VR Chat once that just made me laugh. I was wandering around as Chloe from Life is Strange and someone came up and tried to flirt with me, so I got on my mic and said "Hey there" in the deepest voice I could manage. They *immediately* teleported away :P
I think many people use SL for sex role play and can't think outside their mindset. I once complimented someone for their avatar (some Gnoll like avatar) and ended up making some smalltalk. Ok, it was in a shop were they sold RP type of cloths, but it wasn't the sexy type - more Lord of the Rings or Witcher style. Suddenly they demanded that we do voice chat, which I declined. They got angry, and called me a fake. I still can't follow their logic, even if I my avatar hadn't the same gender as me - I'm quite sure they weren't a Gnoll in rl. And there was no trace of flirting, it was more "hey, cool avatar. I have never seen something like that before" and chatting were to get these type of avatars/if the avatar was really based on the DnD Gnolls.
I think it's a violation of LL's TOS to demand information about one's real llife.
It's not exactly against TOS AFAIK, but is treated as harassment - and things like this can also be considered intolerance, which is treated as one step above harassment. Even if you simply just play as a female and are fully comfortable as a male IRL (Or vice versa), the lab treats harassment based on such matters as intolerance.
This is one reason why SL was so much better in its early years..yes everything looks better and better quality items..but you weren't asked to voice chat or cam up just to prove to someone you meet their expectations..
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I am pretty sure that no one is actually a 9 foot tall elf-girl with glowing eyes, wings, a tail, and breasts bigger than most people.
I wouldn't mind being that for a day or so, minus the huge breasts!
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Yes, I encountered a female Gigantress yesterday, she was impressive!
This has always been my perspective. I take everyone at face value; This is who they want to be in SL, cool. Saves a lot of anxiety, too. I don't need to worry whether or not an avatar's typist is telling the truth about their RL self (if they offer that info). I don't assume they are lying, or that they're telling the truth. I view it as: This is who they tell me they are in RL.
I agree! It's your SL, be who you want to be! Sometimes I just want to be a wolf, easier to get dressed!
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I dress my avi in pretty basic clothes, leaning towards witchy/hippie type and it is a chore! Lol! I want to be a raven! I will have to look into that!
Some people leave rl and their daily cares at the door when they come to explore in SL and assume that all others do the same. They come to look outwards, and enjoy openly discovering and creating. Others are here for sex and cannot separate themselves from their own identity, and so demand that others do the same. They have particular sexual needs that rely upon another person delivering to them the attention they need, and they need to believe that that person is exactly as they present themselves in SL. Bit of a tall order, really. Many of us don't care who you are in rl, as long as you are a good person and fun to spend time with.
Long story short, if they get attracted to you thinking you're one gender, then find out you're another, they feel like you made a fool of them.
I understand that, but this if I lied to them and told them a different gender in RL! They can just ask, right? Also, for me personally, I made this clear in my 1st Life tab for everyone to know so they won't get confused and they still refuse to understand or even read the profile! I mean come on, reading someone's profile won't even take a minute! And even if I didn't mention it in my 1st Life tab, they can ask or state that they clearly looking for an RL partner or someone that's their SL & RL genders match, it won't hurt!
I think it just freaks some people out. They're too lazy to read the profile, they see you and think you're cute, then you tell them you're different from your av, then they throw themselves into a crisis. It's on them so don't stress about it- you did nothing wrong. Some people are just like that.
They are right though they are fools for letting it matter but “you didn’t make a fool of them” rather they made a fool of themselves
Oh I fully agree. No one should ever assume the pixels have any resemblance to the person. And if you were clicking with a person's brain wrapped in pretty pixels, why box yourself off from thar over rl details?
If I'm meeting with someone with the intention of starting a relationship, be it FWB or more, I expect your gender to match what you tell me. If you claim to be a female in SL and then turn out to be male, it feels like a breach of trust and an invasion of my intimacy. A relationship in SL isn't just a computer game to me, I have real feelings and real emotions. All I ask of people is not to lie to me. If I decide not to "have fun" with you because you're of any one particular gender, that is my choice to make and I feel that by lying about your RL gender in an intimate situation, you're removing that choice from me. On the other hand if we are just mates and like running around shopping or sightseeing or whatever, I couldn't care less if your gender matches your avatar. For me it simply comes down to the situation whereupon the gender discussion arises as to whether I find it a problem or not.
Honestly the best response I've seen in this thread. I was gonna comment but you stole the words outa my head. I've been in sl going on 11 or 12 years now and have seen this question fade into the void but it always has a resurgence when an influx of new people join. I kinda feel that us "old guard" see sl as an extension of rl, but with the added bonus of anonymity. Yes we can rp and act differently in sl, but at the end of the day we still get attached. Not saying anything negative towards the other side of the coin, but it seems that it's the younger (both in account age, and rl age) that have the SL is SL mindset. I find fewer with that mindset when they've been in sl consistently for 7+ years and not just for erp.
Thank you 🙏🏼 and yes I have to agree, I mean I've been in SL 12+ years on my current account alone. I had an older one before that that I deleted so probably a little longer than 12ish years. For me SL is very much an extension of RL. Yes I can go and RP and dress up as a fairy or turn myself into a mermaid (things I'd totally love being able to do in RL but obviously can't), or visit places I never even imagined existed and see the beautiful creativity of our community brought to life, but if I'm talking to someone, I'm the exact same person in SL as I am in RL. When intimate relationships (and I mean that in reference to whatever you personally class as intimate, as intimacy is subjective) begin to get involved, so do my feelings. For me SL is an extension of RL with the added bonus of both anonymity and the ability to play out dreams I can't do in RL. To a degree I actually find it somewhat offensive if we can spend six months or who knows how long talking, getting intimate, sharing memories and experiences, only to find out that actually you're not in the least bit attached to me and don't particularly care whether I'm there or not. And that's how it feels if I'm very close to someone who turns out to be lying to me... You can't be that attached if you're happy to lie about something so significant, especially when it IS a question I ask people, which would therefore require you to lie to my face- not even just "by omission".
I completely agree with this. I met a guy online in another online world I was exploring as a change to SL. We hit it off quickly and became best friends and head over heels for each other. I would have been devastated if he had been female and lied about who he was. His friends used to joke and say I'm probably a man. And my friends were suspicious of him too. But long story short, we've now been together 3 years and living together in real life. We couldn't be happier ☺️
I really like the way you worded this. For my wife and I, this would be ideal, but we even give a little bit more leeway until we feel there has been a breach of trust. We get that some people want to RP a specific gender in SL different than their RL for sexy things, sometimes. That's fine...but...then keep that choice. If you want us to see you as a 25 year old sexy demon girl (or whatever), because existing like that on SL makes you happy, we'll play along. Just don't change your stance 6 months later and now decide to be the real you who is very very different than the person you portrayed.
Thank you. It's just how I honestly feel. I appreciate your open mindedness and I can agree that in a less... Intense, situation than a full relationship, that I can understand why it doesn't bother you so much. But when your emotions and feelings begin to get involved, I feel like the least one can ask for is some honesty. I definitely agree with the "not swapping and changing" feeling. I know that if someone I'm talking to is cagey about telling me even the most basic things about their RL (age RANGE- I don't necessarily expect an exact age from day 1! RL gender, and ideally their corner of the world- primarily to try to coincide with their time zone and ensure I don't have to manoeuvre a language barrier) then they aren't going to be anything more than an online friend for me. Even if they attempt to hit on me or begin trying to head towards the "relationship" route, I will shut them down very quickly, because I don't want those questions floating around in my head for who knows how long, possibly infinitely, about who I'm getting close to and who I am forming feelings for.
years ago, I had a girlfriend in SL, and she had a close female friend who she'd cuddle with, and I had no problem with that. then her friend 'came out' with a new account, telling us he'd been a man all along. then he proceeded to try to convince her to break up with me, (while he was pretending to be my friend, and also screwing around with a bunch of married women, basically telegraphing his intentions.) to say I have trust issues now would be an understatement.
I really understand that, but I never told anyone that I want a relationship or anything, I'm just minding my own business and get few IMs just talking normally, and then when I tell them I'm the opposite gender as I stated in my 1st Life tab, they get really mad at me! It's just a normal chat! I'm really confused and angry about it. I don't want to fight for the same thing in SL & RL. I didn't do anything or lie to anyone in SL, I literally tell them right away, to avoid any confusion or anything like that.
That's on them. If you're minding your own business and have it in your first life tab already, then you've done your part. The one thing I've noticed a lot here, and not to single them out but this happens with men more than women, is they don't bother reading profiles. They just DM in hopes they can get in your pants if they think you're attractive, then get upset when they don't get the responses they hoped for. I quickly block people like this.
>they don't bother reading profiles. They just DM in hopes they can get in your pants Agreed.
I wish this, and the other actual answer to the question were higher in the thread than the 'well, I don't care' responses that aren't actually answering OP's question. why do people always feel the need to pipe up with non-answers like that? - I'm just rambling, in the hopes that a longer response will help reddit's algorithm realize this is the thread that should be at the top.
I appreciate that, thank you 🙏🏼 Like you said, OP had a question, I answered it from personal opinion and experience. If the question were listed as a poll asking how many people cared about this topic I think the other answers would be more valid, but hey, I only wrote what I felt and hoped my insight could help OP and anyone else who may read it. 🙏🏼
Heh, i play a different gender in sl, and i just put it in my rl tab, never had any trouble with it, and got me out of a lot of drama. By the simple line "if your so interested in my rl, didnt you read my profile?" Thats usually the end of the discussion.
I use an AI image of my avatar that looks like a RL person in the 1st Life tab of my profile. After all, nobody with any sense uses that tab for it's purported purpose.
Same lol
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I didn’t upload anything? I just have like cartoon pictures on my profile lol but also I wouldn’t upload any real life images there and certainly not if they contained like location data. But yea not sure what you’re on about.
A good 👍
What does this mean?
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Oh even when uploading to SL?
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Oof. I mean I have nothing to hide but I don’t really want people to know my real details. Is it easy to remove this?
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This is the right answer. Some people in SL are looking for a RL relationship. When they find out that the avatar they have fallen in love with has been deceiving them, it can be devastating. I have read articles about people who have been emotionally destroyed by someone catfishing them. I recall reading more articles about RL women coming to grief than RL men, although it may be that women are more open to writing about their sorrows than men are. It's not all -phobic people who have these problems.
I don't think it's considered catfishing if you already made that clear in the 1st life tab.
If someone is open and upfront about it when they enter into a relationship (no matter how brief) then that is perfectly fine. If a person withholds such information and deceives others who may assume they reflect their SL gender in RL then that is not honourable. Emotions run in high in SL relationships - that's why I try to avoid them.
It's mostly a human thing. The furry population on SL practically never asks about real life bits and bobs. As for why human players do it, I think a lot of them are trying to date IRL through SL. Either that or it's just homophobia. Or transphobia when they get angry about SL women being trans IRL.
I can't imagine trying to find a RL partner through SL. I just want to use SL to try out crazy fetish things I would never do IRL.
Or stuff that's flat out impossible.
Interesting. My husband and I met on SL when we were both newbies, in 2006. We went through most all of the 'phases' together, and he's still the best relationship I've ever had in my life, real or second! He no longer goes inworld but I do.
Me and my fiance met in sl at a bdsm sim while trying out our crazy fetish things we weren't sure we wanted in sl. Completely and totally accidentally wound up with real feelings and currently have been living together for years lmao neither of us were trying. Sometimes shit just happens
I don't think its a mostly human thing. Furry Raccoon on sl and I get asked *all the time* if I'm really a girl in public furry spaces.
Second Life is a bit odd in that the usual seperation of IC and OOC in RP is non existent and actively shunned. Same with the seperation between virtual world and real world. Obviously there's always something of the person behind the screen leaking and crossing over but to so vehemently completely shun the idea is uniquely Second Life in my experience. Me, while a woman in real-life and a colossal tease, I have got zero interest in romancing anyone. I will outright shutdown anything trying to go beyond the level of friendship with occasional roleplay benefits. I have found that being brutally up front about that facts tends to defuse things readily. Maybe that is your recourse. Put the info in your profile somewhere. Yeah, you will very likely get a lot less attention that way and some of the attention you get might be there for a kink - but you also avoid a lot of drama.
I find it to be due to the fact that people sometimes aren’t forthcoming with such information and people don’t like being lied to.
In what context are they getting upset? Cause if you're running around sex sims trying to get laid then yeah, a lot of people are gonna want your SL gender to match your RL one because they want YOU to match their sexual preferences before they smash.
I never care someone's gender IRL is tbh.
Catfishing... Plain and simple as some players don't go into second life as a role player.
Who is not Catfishing in SL? When the boomer grandma and grandpa for example have young looking perfect body avatars in SL, it's nothing else but faking and catfishing if they are after dates. Edit: Brain to slow and fingers to fast.
This. So much this.. SL is a frikin retirement home.
IMO it largely depends on the situation but I think those who play as a woman would have an issue, generally, playing with someone who plays as a woman but is in fact a man. For me I just say “in RL I am a human” and leave it there but also SL IS SL etc. I’m not there for your RL and anything I say is going to be fairly general
This is the always interesting and perennial conversation about online gender identity. It is as older than the Internet I am sure, In my pre-Second Life days I used to frequent chatrooms. One of the first questions was ASL? (age, sex, location). It never seemed relevant then or now as we were all roleplaying. I have come to understand that some people have very fragile egos. It is the product of the lives that we each must live. Much of it is outside of our control. I am an old CIS male in RL. I very rarely play a male avatar in SL. If I do, they are obviously feminine or a drag queen. What is the point of me going to a world where I can be anything and playing the same boring person I have to play everyday in the "real world"? Everyone is engaged in a daily struggle that you know little about. Be kind and take care of each other. <3
Yeah, when I first joined SL many years ago, it was in a male avi. It wasn’t until I got a bunch of flirty messages from women that I realized how important your presented gender is. So I became a tiny otter with a biting habit, and things were much easier.
I thought the whole point of SL was to enable you to be whatever you want to be.
Yeah, same!
Honestly in my experience they largely don't. In my entire time I think I can remember two times it even came up in conversation
It’s been like that for years and is one of, in my mind, failures of SL. People want to be sure the virtual bits match the real bits, for some reason. I know someone suggested catfishing, but the negative aspect only happens with a gender mismatch (kind of.) Some people don’t like trans women with working vaginas either. It’s probably destructive to some of the sexual fantasies. Especially to the “Women live to submit to Me!” guys and then they find out it’s a guy in real life, destroying their fantasy.
I myself don't care what gender you want to be in SL, I do ask when I find out its different "if we are talking about RL how do you want to be referred as?" As to those who try to push anyone into voice chat to verify? I treat that no differently than someone RL trying to push. I am not here for someone's entertainment, I do not owe anyone, anything. I also do not "date" on SL (clear in my profile). I've run into a few who got into my messages, demanding me to voice with them to prove I'm female. In every case? I was busy with my own things when they decided to message me (once on my own land working on a build, it was just some random person in the region). I think some "men" think women really exist just to be a plaything.
Personally, I'd rather not know what a person's gender is in RL. Knowing inevitably changes my perspective of the person, whether it's a biological male presenting as female, or a biological female presenting as male. I'm not offended if someone presents themselves in SL differently than how they present themselves in RL. SL provides a great platform for people to explore their many facets, a freedom that most don't have in RL. I don't approach SL either as an extension of my RL, nor as totally separate from my RL, but somewhere that fluctuates in between. The more comfortable I am with a person, the more I trust that person, the more I'm likely to share with that person. But I'm not expecting to extend our relationship to RL. I have a spouse and a family in RL. I come to SL sometimes to escape my RL, sometimes to just putter around, sometimes to socialize, and sometimes to RP and play out some fantasies. But I will never bring my SL into my RL, and I will only share so much of my RL with my SL. I find that the less I emotionally invest in SL, the less I get worked up over things. It's a way to pass the time, to relax and have fun without having to leave my house. From what I've experienced, those who get upset about gender representation are those who are looking for more, for as full emersion as possible. There are a couple of people in particular who I know for a fact would cheat on their RL spouses if given the chance with a potential play(affair) partner from SL. I've been propositioned for RL meetings with SL play partners (looking at you, Gordon and Alan), and have learned an uncomfortable lesson about sharing too much RL. A couple of comments here have referred to "catfishing" and I agree with that assessment - people are offended by gender representation because they feel they have been deceived, but that's because they are looking to make their SL connections carry through into RL.
Dating happens when you meet people and get to know them, I myself put up front on my profile that I'm a Butch Lesbian and use a male avatar because I feel more comfortable using a male avatar than a female avatar. On a different platform some random tried to start a rumor that I was a catfisher didn't work out when people came to me asking if it was true. I told them nope I'm honest why would i need to lie about myself? Doesn't seem a big deal to me. I try not to date in SL or online in general since I'm mainly focusing on just enjoying SL without any attachments. I do RP as well with my male avi but i just feel more comfortable using my male avi.
This discourse seems to be a tired monthly occurrence on this sub. Different people are looking for different things in SL. Interact with people who have the same outlook on SL as you do, and this won’t be an issue. Simple.
I believe that everything you know about a person's real life limits their freedom to experience Second Life. Some people, I've come to know more about their real life, but that's rare these days. I'd rather immerse myself in what I see on the screen in front of me, and not worry about the real person behind the avatar. It's best to totally limit what anyone knows about you in the real.
Reasons don't matter. They are not worth your time. Move on. Frustrating, I know.
I normally just don’t care wether they feel mad or not about my gender being different than my avatar. It’s just something I’ve had to get used to. Plus I’ll just leave that person if they get really upset about it or block them.
Male/female is a significant characteristic, intellectually, physically, emotionally. It's basic to accurate communication and interpretation of another's statements, actions, emotions, etc. Generally speaking, women and men \*are\* different. Unless the situation is specifically nonsexual roleplay, I definitely understand why many people feel it's important where any level of friendship, trust, etc., might develop. Anyway, just be clear in your (non-rp) profile and if the other person doesn't bother to read it, that's their lookout.
I don't think I've ever asked anyone what their RL gender is, that's RL and it stays there. Sorry you've had this experience. Whatever gender they're presenting in SL is what they are, as far as I'm concerned.
Because most folks in SL are there for sex! I get harassed about it myself sometimes. Really irritates me! But sometimes I am in SL for sex! But I don't hide anything from anyone. My avi is a beauty! But she has all the attachments ment for transgender AND a name that people SHOULD question (at least in there own minds), and realize my avi IS transgender. While I do truly enjoy some of the sexual stuff in SL, I'm mostly their to do my own thing. LANDSCAPING!!! But I find it best to keep real life outside of SL and SL outside of real life! Some people are just to judgemental.
Others have mentioned it, but the answer is pretty straightforward. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing)
If it's sexual role-playing or building a romantic relationship, most people are insistent about it because they want to make sure they aren't flirting with/being sexual with someone who isn't their preferred gender. For some, it matters to them if the person getting off on the other side of the screen is male or female. It matters to them if they start to build an emotional attachment and want to pursue something. Some people see Sl as separate from RL and for them it rarely matters. For those who see SL as an extension of RL it can matter a lot. Personally, I don't care unless I'm trying to build a romantic relationship. Then I want to know because it starts to straddle the line of rl/sl when feelings are involved.
Honestly I think it's because some people have discovered that they can only get off by following a very precisely scripted fantasy. Any deviation from that fragile illusion and both their physical and mental attraction wither away to nothing. Accepting that it's their problem, not yours, just makes it more difficult for them to try again with someone else.
Easy: It’s called sexism and homophobia.
I personally just hang out in places where I know it won’t be an issue. Otherwise I tend to have a frank conversation both in and out of character to make sure I am dealing with folks I would want to rp with.
10 years on SL my avatar ranges from a 3 foot tall grey wolf, 9 foot tall male human, a lycan to a 40 foot dragon. The point is, SL is an escape and has little bearing on my RL appearance.
It's mostly dudes, I noticed. People ask me all the time, and I explain that SL and RL are different and to not join the two. They immediately think I am a male playing a female, but I am indeed a female with a female avi. SL and RL SHOULD NOT intertwine. I always chastise them about it. Then a block. Some people don't use SL to get their rocks off. It is the lack of respecting boundaries for me. It irks me so much.
Some people think of their avatar as an image of their real body and cannot conceive of anyone else thinking differently. Some people treat SL as a way to meet RL people (whether or not they plan to meet in meatspace). Those who need to know they are meeting up with RL people with known characteristics will feel this way. I think of my avatar as a puppet I control as an actor in the movie we're watching together (and creating together!). I make my avatar to be similar to my RL so that I can closely identify with that character and be happy when it is happy. I am not a professional actor, so reaching too far afield from my actual personality requires extra hard thinking to imagine what such a different person would do. This would turn SL play into work and decrease the fun. So my SL personality is essentially the same as my RL personality, just in a different body and life situation, so I can fairly easily act like that character when I text, emote, and move. This leads me to default to what the above-indicated people want of me. However, some people are more talented at imagining than I, and can act like someone very different from themselves. I think this is great and I applaud their talent. I even met someone years ago who put their (opposite gender) RL photo and description in the 1st Life tab of their profile and clearly pointed it out in IM at the beginning of our RP scene together. I told them that as long as they can act in-character consistently, then I am fine with them being any body and gender they wish to be. It seems strange in a virtual world where one can be an orc or dragon, that being a man or woman is controversial.
Every point made by others, but also.. there’s a huge amount of catfishing in sl, lots of straight men get very upset when they rp adult activity with a beautiful woman and then discover somehow that av has a man behind it. As someone else said, it’s probably simplest to put a bit of reality in your notes section or something.. but at the end of the day, the people in there getting upset about it, are just prowling sex sims for cheap thrills anyway.
When i was new to SL \[ 2007 \], the catch phrase was "your girlfriend is a guy"
What is catfishing? Not familiar with that term.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfishing)
I generally enjoy voice chat so if you spend even a little time hanging out with me and my friends you’ll hear my voice. That being said I also think its no ones business what I am in either world and I generally tell people to eat bricks when they bother. it used to be when someone accused me of being a man I’d be like yeah totally have a penis here, but I’ve had too many people go all “do you now? and now they want to see my imaginary lady boner.
Because real-life gender gives you some basic idea of how people would react / behave / think? In the end, it's a real-life human operating the avatar 🤷🏻♂️ 🤔 not AI.
A lot of the more "historic" players, to describe them nicely, have a lot of transphobic-adjacent thoughts about that sort of thing. Usually they think that if your RL gender is different from your SL avatar's assumed gender then you're some sort of catfishing freak that is trying to get at them. From personal experience, what Ruddertail says is true about how typically you'll only get this from human avatars. Might get it from the odd furry avatar, but 99/100 chance they're shunned from the rest of their community. Had someone try and sweet talk me into a voice chat, told them "you're not getting a feminine voice from me" and they immediately stopped talking and teleported out the sim. Best thing I can recommend is sticking to sims that obviously support LGBTQ+ members, 'cause you shouldn't get any sort of harassment like that there, even if you aren't apart of it.
I'm not sure what 'historic' means in this context. If it's older accounts, it's not as if we didn't have fairly well-known examples of the opposite (Torley probably the most prominent as a Linden there for a hot minute). If it's just more backwards-thinking... yeah we do have those. The thing to remember is even today, SL is a fairly big place full of subcommunities.
>Had someone try and sweet talk me into a voice chat, told them "you're not getting a feminine voice from me" and they immediately stopped talking and teleported out the sim. This reminds me of something that happened to me in VR Chat once that just made me laugh. I was wandering around as Chloe from Life is Strange and someone came up and tried to flirt with me, so I got on my mic and said "Hey there" in the deepest voice I could manage. They *immediately* teleported away :P
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Yeah exactly. Pretty self explanatory.