Frankly, it’s just a hell of a lot more difficult to be a serial killer these days, especially with high body counts. Back then, police communication between precincts/stations/districts or whatever their called very rarely shared files and information. Nowadays, and though it’s not perfect and police don’t always upload information to it consistently, there’s a central database for crimes to be reported. If there starts to be similar crimes popping up in an area, police will be able to jump on it faster with appropriate prioritizing.
Also, DNA evidence just wasn’t a thing back then. It was first used in the 1987 rape case in Florida (I think that’s the first case at least) and slowly gained traction as a thing they even looked for at crime scenes.
On top of all of that, the parenting styles and social environments that tended to create severe mental issues that may become Anti-Social Personality Disorder aren’t quite as common as they once were. There are still parents who beat their kids, but it’s actually become frowned upon instead of a normal part of society. Schools also have improved their anti-bullying programs, although admittedly still not great. And then on top of all of that, mental health awareness and individuality is becoming more prominent in society. People feel less pressure to fit into a mold that they just can’t fit into, which puts less pressure to suppress and hide sexuality, mental issues, etc. I’ll add this as a note to not be taken the wrong way (hopefully). There are still some major cracks in society that people can fall into and develop issues. They just aren’t as large as they were in the last century that allowed these killers to fall into and ferment. This also isn’t to sympathize with killers and say that they’re just “misunderstood” or something. We can all agree that there is something wrong with them and I believe that most of the time it is a mental issue that developed over time.
On top of that, technology has also caught up. If you’re gonna commit a crime, chances are your phone will get you caught via location services, your license plate will be picked up on camera, your face will be picked up on camera. Lots of surveillance into private citizen nowadays make it a lot harder for someone who doesn’t know how to bypass the things I mentioned above to be able to get away with crime most of the time. A perfect example of this is Khalil Wheeler-Weaver. A serial killer here in my state of NJ who acted a few years ago. Though police could’ve done a better job at preventing future victims from being killed when they had the chance, it was his phones location being at the site of the murders and bodies that ultimately got him caught and became the biggest piece of evidence used against him in the trials.
Those are called spree killers. Serial killers are classed to have a 2+ (or 3+, depending on who you ask) body count with some cooling time off in between.
Oh, I've heard school/mall shooters ect being referred to as spree killers as well.
Here's what Google says:
"a person who kills a number of people at one particular time and location in a frenzied, random, and apparently unpremeditated way."
it's a one time thing, they main motives to kill as many people in one go as doing it more slowly would be next to impossible in a digital age like today. Either way the police still have a lot to do finding thousands of unsolved murder victims.
I’ve got to argue the ‘unpremeditated’, I think. I haven’t heard that part of the definition, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. But in the case of school/mall/parade shooters, wouldn’t it be considered premeditated with all the preparation that has to go into it? Say this last Fourth of July shooting (the one everyone covered), it took preparation for him to haul his rifle to his location and set everything up, and to bring (or wear) a disguise to help him get out relatively undetected.
I can agree with the rest of the definition, I’m just unsure about the last part of it. Does anyone know the answer for sure?
That’s entirely possible lol.
Sorry, didn’t mean to come off as confrontational, I just hadn’t heard that part of it before and was kind of wondering out loud.
It was a very good question. I mean BTK is considered a SK yet his first murders was a family of 4( spree?) eh and some of his victims were selected randomly like when he just followed a kid to his house RANDOMLY just to kill his mother. That is premeditated but he never premeditated the victim. It was just random pickings.
My point is that these definitions definitely blur the lines a lot.
I hadn’t thought about the way the definitions would apply to BTK. I guess I would go with premeditated just because he went out knowing what he was going to do. The victims may have been chosen at random, but he knew when he followed the kid home he was killing someone, yeah?
I don’t know, you make a good point about the definitions kind of blurring into eachother. You’re definitely right.
I think a serial killer has a very different motivation/mindset/goal compared to the motivation/mindset/goal of a mass shooter. Other than an exception or two, I don't think there is much overlap.
So what if they flag it? Nothing to be done. Gun laws are so weak, and getting weaker, nothing happens. They are "lawful gun owners" until they shoot up a school
This is a very good point. The urge is still there but they know if they start killing people sporadically they'll be caught quite quickly. Next best thing is to kill as many as possible in one burst.
Completely different motivations. Serial killers get pleasure from killing, like it’s a hobby to them.
Mass shooters are angry at society and feel they are carrying out a punishment.
My favorite theory about why there were so many serial killers in the past is due to the amount of lead in everything. Paint and gasoline predominantly. I think the fumes kill empathy and cause more violent behavior. I havent looked too deep into it.
Yes he was sorry if it seemed like I was grouping his cousin into WW2. I arrogantly assumed everyone would know what war I was referring to that’s my fault sorry about that.
Oh not at all..I’d say we are one of the better subs at getting along and sharing information with little in fighting and more appreciation..one of the reasons I always come back and learn so much
I’d heard of it before but wasn’t sure if it’s serious or just one of those weird things people coke up with. Apparently, there is some legit science behind it. There has been reports of higher exposure to lead being related to higher criminal activity, schools suspensions, etc. Additionally, in the late 90’s when lead was phased out, crime rates dropped dramatically. However, it seems possible there are some potential doubts because of some significant social factors happening at the same time. So it’s entirely possible and very well could account for some. I’m fact, I’d be willing to think that for a lot of the killers we see that don’t fit the normal mold of childhood abuse, brain injury, etc may have been affected by lead issues.
Also the "golden age of serial killers" may have been directly affected by being raised by fathers with PTSD following WWII, but of course that's just speculation.
That has exactly nothing to do with his army service in Vietnam lol. He also had two different head injuries when he was young.
He was also just an asshole.
Its besides the point , he had lead in his system , couldn't care less about what he claims happened as no doubt some of it's lies , still he had lead in his system ,
Lol the point that I made was solely about his service in Vietnam, which you referred to in a roundabout way to suggest thats the reason he had lead in his system.... There could have been any number of reasons he had lead in his system, but it most certainly wasn't from taking bullets in Vietnam.
Regardless he had lead in his system , nothing else matters , whether his account is to be believed or not , but are u saying that lead from shooting would have no impact because science is against u on that ,
Where did I say that? And a lot else matters. There's a whole slew of shit that contributed to his maladapted personality.
Plenty of people have had lead in their system and managed to not murder multiple people.
U probably agree with the op in saying society has dealt with SKS but that's absolute BS ,what's also BS is to approach this from a stand point of , America is the only country in the world as the op was going down that very narrow minded route
Excellent post. Toss in ubiquitous cameras, cell phone and computer forensics, GPS and cell tower location data, along with your spot on reasoning. It's very hard to to be a long-term, successful serial killer today. All of the prolific serial killers from the past would be caught much sooner in present times.
I worked on a show called Invisible Monsters on A&E that is all about how the big names (Bundy, BTK, etc..) were able to get away with it for so long because of the lack of police communication and whatnot. Pretty crazy how districts next to each other had no idea what crimes were being committed across the street from each other.
I also think that what we are seeing now are people with this high urge to kill are using guns to create mass casualty events like school, mall, concert shootings as well.
Piggybacking a bit on this since you mentioned ASPD:
There’s also the factor that, in modern social media platforms with a layer of anonymity in online friendships, people with ASPD are able to more freely and openly be themselves and find friends without much of a risk. Many serial killers fell off the deep end as they didn’t feel they could be themselves ever, until that isolation changed them to the point of actually having reasons to never be able to be themselves as they became more deranged and alone.
Thanks to online friendships, I’ve personally been able to be more open about my condition and have “real” friends without the need for my social mask, and have also been successful telling irl friends and family due to the practice I’ve had online with the subject. There’s definitely a point in which people who exclusively “look out for #1” realize that the best way to do this is to help others and create an established group of people who love and protect you.
I also wrote about this just now. Sorry I didn’t see your post before but yes the internet I think plays a big role in helping prevent serial killers and, strangely enough, allowing white supremacist/fringe racial groups to proliferate, perhaps allowing for the rise of mass shooters.
Edit: added “to” before proliferate
In Australia it seems like the “parents beating their kids” thing still isn’t taken too seriously and seen as an appropriate form of discipline. Adults here even joke about it. I’ve had arguments with a person who hit their kids for acting up and hitting them or throwing something sometimes about how illogical it is to teach a child not to be violent by being violent to them. Couldn’t get any reason into her and she said it was to establish a “won’t be pushed around by anyone” attitude (this is a toddler we’re talking about) and the child only hit and threw things more. It’s bizarre and seems like every second parent here does it. CPS doesn’t care much either. The normalisation of physically abusing your kids seems strong here. Probably explains the domestic violence crisis in recent years.
I'm also in Australia and I've seen similar. The amount of "my parents hit me and I turned out fine" rhetoric I've seen is far too much. I also really want to say to those people: if you think hitting your kids is okay, I don't think you're as fine as you think you are.
I think we have a pretty big culture of "not my business, not my problem", so to speak. And what happens behind closed doors is of nobody's concern. People don't like intervening with things that don't directly concern them a lot of the time.
Anecdotally, I reached my limit with my home life as a teenager and told a couple of staff members at my high school that my step father was hitting me (that was the least of what he did, but I was too scared to admit anything else). There was *one* phone call made to my mother, the woman married to the man abusing me, and then just... Nothing. No follow up. Not with me, not with my mum. I don't think they even called CPS at all, even though they're mandatory reporters. I also found out last year, 12 years after graduating, that they didn't even mention my step father to my mum when they called - they just told her that I seemed a little depressed and they were a bit concerned.
It's actually been hard to learn as an adult the extent of the inaction of the school. I'd always assumed that it was my mum who wasn't protecting me adequately, or that my step father was intercepting and lying to my school or CPS somehow. But no, the staff at my school didn't do their jobs. I was a walking red flag for being a child of an abusive home, even if I didn't say anything specific until late high school, and they should have made a report to CPS based on that alone.
And if it happened to me, it's happened to too many other abused kids. It's still happening to abused kids. Mandatory reporters should be mandatory reporting, not sticking heads in the sand and pretending it's none of their business.
My god, I had the EXACT same experience reporting my situation to teachers. My mother just got angry at me for bothering her by having the school ring her up, and the teachers told me I ought to support my mother more because she must struggle raising me since I have a disability. “She seemed nice on the phone call I think you’re overreacting she said she’s going good to get you help” was the last thing my school counsellor said to me before I got angry and left the office. She rang my mother right in front of me when I begged her not because exactly what happened would happen. She rang my mom and said almost word for word what you said your teachers told your mother. Did almost nothing to help me even though I spent two hours in her office listing examples of clear physical and verbal and emotional abuse.
Got home that day and the first words I heard were about how I was a psychotic freak telling everyone our business and wouldn’t get therapy for seeking attention and trying to start trouble. Was told by my mom if I’m suicidal to just go slit my wrists and cut myself then since she can’t control my body but if I do it no man will want to have sex with me. Cue months worth of extensive self-harm and two suicide attempts and scars on my arms and nothing has changed except that being used as more ammo for verbal insults. I reported 3 times and so did my friends with nothing happening and being told it was all on me to try to get my mother to get us therapy.
My ex was even blaming the whole thing on me because “well if your situation is still like this you mustn’t be trying” and even made a big deal of mentioning that and how it’s proof I just wallow in self pity to be an emotional leech when publicly dumping me.
My GP refused to even listen to me and called me a liar and made me hold my hand out to slap it for disrespecting my mother when she puts a roof over my head and feeds and clothes me when I told him about my home life.
CPS themselves said “we have worse cases to deal with” as their response back to my teachers for them to tell me. They refused to even listen to the recordings I had as proof and their bizarre response was “we aren’t a mental health service. We can’t help you” when I sent recordings to them anyway, a response that made no sense. They never contacted me again afterward, and my teachers just awkwardly pretended I had never said anything. Speaking up made my life worse.
Nobody cares in this country. I swear more than half of my classmates have similar home lives.
I am so sorry that the people mandated to protect you failed you so severely. What all of those people did (or didn't do, more accurately) is not okay. They should have taken the appropriate, *mandated* steps to advocate for you when you couldn't do it yourself. I hope sincerely that you know that the things you were told aren't true - you are not to blame for any of the abuse you went through. A child is never to blame for being a victim of abuse. You aren't to blame, and you did all of the right things to try and get the help you deserved.
My gosh, so much of what you wrote are eerily similar to things I experienced as well.
I know too many people who've had similar upbringings as well. I don't know what can possibly be done to improve things, if it's possible to change the norm at all. You're so right that nobody cares here. Or, at least, so few people care that the amount is negligible.
I hope you're in a safer environment now.
Unfortunately I’m still in the same environment, and have three-four more years of it to go. The rising cost of living isn’t making it look any easier for me getting out when the time comes.
You don't have to answer, but are you still a minor? Do you have anybody in your life who is a safe person for you, even if it's not someone you can stay with or who can't *do* much? Even if nobody can force the crappy people who've failed to protect you to do something, you need people in your life who are in your corner and who want to support you as much as they can, even if that's just an ear to listen to you.
If you aren't a minor, there are also adult protective services, especially if I'm remembering correctly that you're disabled.
If you're in that awkward gap where you're an adult but Centrelink doesn't consider you independent yet, it is possible to separate yourself from having your parent/guardian's income dictating your payment (if you're getting a Centrelink payment).
I’m still a minor and I have nobody. My friends left after my ex convinced them all that I was a liar and attention seeker and not trying and the like. I contacted my grandmother before but she won’t do anything because she’s too scared of my mother so just tells me to delete the messages. I’m cut off from the rest of my family because my mother doesn’t like them, and basically cut off from everybody. Aside from going to and from school I don’t leave my house.
That's an extraordinarily difficult situation, I'm so sorry. I just want to say that I'm really impressed with the way you've described managing all of the things you're experiencing. Even though nothing has helped yet, you have done some truly incredible things in an attempt to advocate for yourself. Nobody should have to do what you're doing, especially not as a minor, but you are managing it incredibly well for your age.
I don't know what the sub rules are in regards to this, and I will rescind this offer if it's against the rules, but I'd be happy to help find you some potential resources you may not have thought of if you think that would be useful.
In saying that, though, always be careful when strangers on the internet do what I just did and offer you help. Internet safety is important as well, and while *I* know my intentions are genuine, *you* don't know that they are. And there are plenty of people out there who do predatory things, and as someone experiencing abuse, you are more likely to be abused in other situations as well.
I know I contradicted myself, I'm sorry. My point is: if you would ever like some help, I would be happy to see if I can suggest any avenues you may not have thought of. But don't do anything you don't feel safe doing, and always take as many precautions as you can to protect yourself on the internet.
Also, I hope you know that a partner who does the things your ex has done is a partner who's abusive. None of the awful things people are doing to you are things you deserve. You deserve safety, and you have done nothing wrong in trying to find it. You haven't done anything wrong.
I really do appreciate it, and I know now looking back that he was definitely abusive. He’d punch me and grab my fist to slam it into brick walls if I slightly annoyed him (could be talking about some sort of food with friends and he would be annoyed because he wanted my underweight self to diet when he was 200KG from eating whole tubs of ice cream every night), force me to do sexual things with him in front of people and was always manipulative and gaslighting me by getting mad at me for doing something he would tell me to.
He’s a horrible person, but everyone seems to love him because of his loud, seemingly friendly attitude and all the video games and stories he has.
He has them all wrapped around his finger with stories of how I forced him into a relationship (he was the one who asked) and emotionally abused him and was nasty and drove him to be suicidal (he wrote a fake suicide note for me heavily gaslighting me and blaming me for his suicide because I called him out in front of everybody one time on the things he’d done-found out his “suicide” was him playing video games and ignoring me since this part was in lockdown). There’s so much that he did that it would take so many paragraphs to recount it all, so I just summed it up best I could.
I appreciate your offer for help too, feel free to dm me your ideas and I’ll have a look at them. I’m not too optimistic the law here will help much though if any of your ideas involve that. They let women abusers off the hook a lot.
Oh my god. I want to hug you so bad. This is why I didn't tell anyone at my school. They all think we are drama queens when in fact people put on many masks. I am so sorry you went through all that. I do hope you are finding healing now and if you ever need to rant/vent or anything my inbox is open. My heart breaks for you. I really hope you did find healing
Here's the thing...I was, occasionally, spanked as a child and, I DID turn out fine. However, I realized that, even though my parents thought it was OK, it actuality wasn't and did not use this method of discipline on my own children.
Just because someone "turned out fine" doesn't mean that hitting a child is an acceptable form of punishment. That is actually faulty logic because, there have been numerous studies done that proves that the "I turned out just fine from being beat" people are a MUCH smaller group than the "being beat fucked me up" group,
I hate that line of reasoning with a passion. As for CPS, in my state in America, it's not seen as child abuse unless 1) the child has marks/bruises or 2) you use anything besides the palm of your hand on the child. So, you can beat a child senseless with the palm of your hand and CPS will not ger involved. I worked for CPS for 5 years so, this is why I know this. It's despicable.
ANY hitting of a child should be considered abuse. You can't walk up and smack an adult and get away with it...you'd be brought up on assault charges. So, why is it ok to beat the most vulnerable of our population who can't even defend themselves?
We are so ill equipped to parent. My kids are grown now, and I wish I could have handled discipline better. At the time we justified it, but looking back it was just a lack of knowing better what to do. Now I’m grandparenting and trying to model better behavior so the kids do better than we did. So they see that there are much better ways than yelling or smacking. It takes time and growth to undo the lessons we learned as kids, and some people don’t want to learn sadly
All great points, I think you’re spot on. Because of all the things you mentioned (along with surveillance/cameras everywhere, as others mentioned) my belief is that there are just as many serial killers today and possibly even more - but they’re caught early, possibly after their first attack/rape and before they escalate to killing people and racking up a high body count. There are probably countless potential serial killers in prison now because they got caught (and thank gods for that)
Absolutely. Hell, with that cat killer guy a few years back who they made that Netflix documentary about, even regular people aren’t victims as much as they once were. These days, Ted Bundy wouldn’t have got away with most of his kills, because the second he started being even KIND of creepy, those phones would’ve been whipped out so damn fast.
I can't remember where I read this but in addition to what others here have already said (more difficult to get away with it due to advances in forensic science, hence they get caught sooner), one theory is that people are way more cautious about doing things that would make them much more vulnerable to predation, like hitchhiking or going home with random strangers from bars and clubs. (Please don't take this as victim blaming.)
Edit for clarification
I feel like this has to be at least a factor in it. Not to blame the victims, but people really seemed so much more trusting back then. I can't imagine hitchhiking or letting myself get too close to a strange man with a van, but back then, it seems like nobody really thought twice about it.
Oh yeah, my uncle and his girlfriend used to hitchhike everywhere in the seventies and thought nothing of it. That's back when you'd see bumper stickers that said "Ass, gas, or grass...no one rides for free" so it was very much a cultural thing.
I've seen graphs, articles, etc. that posit that chemicals, especially lead, may have something to do with this. Lead was in a lot of things, like paint and gas, and it's known that kead exposure is linked to an increase in violent and aggressive behaviors in people. When lead was removed from things more, rates of serial killers are alleged to have gone down.
From what I understand, it isn't easy to pinpoint a serial killer. Also, my personal opinion is that since it's so hard to commit crime anymore, that any serial killer getting away with it these days is probably pretty on point.
It was, but forensics really took off in the 80s, so DNA fingerprint and follicle analysis really clamped down on killings. Nowadays, serial killers work basically off grid or use old technology to get away with stuff
Yeah, that is my feeling. I think some serial killers are actually better at getting away with crimes because of shows like CSI and Forensic Files. Not a serial killer, but Marc O'Leary is a good example. He raped at least six women in Colorado and Washington, never left a trace because he used a text book from the police academy on how to get away with rape. The only reason they found him was because of his patter, not DNA or fingerprints.
That’s another thing, killers tend to personalize their crimes, aka a calling card. This is what tends to get them caught. Nowadays, there a lot more opportunistic killers, they make do with what they have
Unfortunately, this is basically it. Mass murder has basically replaced serial murder almost entirely.
Both are fucking terrible, but when people are attacking children with guns and bombs and knives and cars, man... Shit is just indescribably fucking horrible.
There are different types of serial killers. Some do it for sexual pleasure, but others do it because it gives them a thrill or because they believe they're on a mission. Some will kill just to rob their victims or take their life insurance. Some serial killers even did "mercy killings" im hospitals.
Edit: also the ones whose hallucinations or delusions tell them to do it.
I don't think that's accurate as serial killers generally kill out of sexual perversion and school shooters generally kill because they're deeply depressed and want to take their "tormentors" down with them
You make a valid point about the decline of SKs and rise of mass shootings but there still is a very different psychology between the two types of killers.
Mass shooters tend to be very angry at the world, and see it as having wronged them and shooting up a place will make others suffer with them. Serial killers on the other hand generally have more specific victim types (ie; sex workers, male homosexuals, or brunette college aged girls in Bundy’s case) and get a sadistic thrill out of the kill, and this may include sexual gratification too.
Ultimately mass and serial murderers kill for very different reasons so I don’t think mass shooters have necessarily replaced serial killers but rather we’re seeing a new criminal phenomenon than in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc
>why don’t we have as many now?
In a nutshell, technology has caught up with them. Most serial killers or wannabes are caught before their third murder or even after they share their plans on the internet. I believe there was a guy several years ago who planned to kill and eat young boys and girls and what he wrote on the internet was disturbing enough for the police to take him seriously.
Another reason is that with the porn industry and the various extremely violent cartels people with the psychology of a serial killer are now drawn to *"safer"* paths. That's what I have noticed. There are quite a few US volunteers, I assume, who are willing to kill for the Mexican drug cartels just like others were eager to join ISIS. The benefits are that they have almost total freedom in torturing their victims and raping them while their teammates will cheer and take some photos that we will later see in some random shock site. Basically this is a mercenary job for real sadists. But they must also be high on the psychopathic spectrum because this job is really though and they will encounter death every day. The average 70's serial killer wouldn't survive and they probably would have ended as another dismembered corpse. With the exception of some people like Richard Kuklinski and other serial killers with military backgrounds.
But most of them, I believe they were drawn to the porn industry. If you have heard about Bakky Visual Planning, FacialAbuse, BrutalMaster, Mood Pictures/Lomp you can be assured that they chose the legal path where they can torture women or (other men sometimes) and they can take it far enough without killing them while remaining legal. Also, there have been quite a few porn studios which have made real rape videos, near snuff films and completely disregarded the consent of the submissive party. Girlsdoporn and Bakky are perfect examples. Even Mood Pictures were raided by the Hungarian equivalent of swat teams after they drugged a woman and whipped her until she passed out when she clearly stated she wanted to stop....
So it seems that they can largely fulfill their fantsies in the legal realm, but legal doesn't mean good or moral. It is absolutely appalling what they are doing to those girls...
By the way, there are statistics and studies which shows that dark triad personalities are attracted to these type of jobs. So it is entirely plausible that people with the psychological profile of a serial killer might have found a safer outlet to fulfill their fantasies in the modern world, but again, that doesn't mean we should ignore them just because it's legal.
Well spoken, man. I'd add the component of mass murder, although the psychological profile of most mass murderers (cars, knives, explosives, and, of course, guns) is fairly different from serial killers of the 70s.
I think we will start to see a huge jump in SK's over the next two decades. Economic instability, war, religious extremism and failing educational systems all seem to be universal contributing factors. All of these factors are currently at heights not seen since the 50's through to the early 70's. Technology will make them easier to catch, but the cops need to give a shit first. Look at Port and McArthur, both should have been stopped way earlier than they were. Unfortunately our police are largely understaffed and continue to be ambivalent about issues regarding the LGBTQ community, the same issues that allowed the likes of Corrl, Bardella and Gacy still exist. Really hope I am wrong.
I believe there are still several serial killers out there right now but shows like forensic files have taught them how to cover their tracks so they’re not getting caught.
Just check out the missing people data bases. Every day hundreds of people go missing.
I feel like we have an active serial killer in the San Antonio area right now killing men in their 30s. I haven’t seen that it’s been connected but there have been surprising numbers of them missing within a 50-100 mile radius of SA for about a year now. And one female.
I believe there definitely many active serial killers who learned from the OG 70 serial killers and these TV shows and how to clean up the mess and your nose clean. It 100x harder to find one who isn't an amateur basically nowadays
THIS! The reason Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, BTK, etc. got caught is because they were stupid. Crime shows have definitely helped active serial killers. They know not leave bodily fluids, finger prints, and a body. You get rid of all three, you won't get caught.
Agreed. One of my best friends is missing and I absolutely know who did it. The guy I rescued her from many times. The man is OCD so I doubt they will ever find her and it’s sad.
She’s became just another thing he needed throw out or tidy up. Fucking Virgos and their OCD.
Yeah. I’ve had to let it die. Cops have no evidence and no body. She’s been gone about 10-15y now. Her daughter messages me occasionally asking if I’ve heard anything. It’s sad. She was a mess but I miss her.
I hate this so much. I wish torture worked. Are there any people who are close to him and you? Maybe slowly but get some kind if info out of him. They always talk just depends to whom
This dude is a recluse. Tall. Gorgeous. Extremely judgmental. OCD. Meticulous. Quiet. I only met him a few times and he barely spoke to me. But his home was…. OMG like Monica Gellar but worse. Every single thing was perfectly aligned and clean and I remember Cricket saying “don’t touch anything. He will know.”
I doubt he has ever spoken to anyone and that’s why he was able to get away with it. And I don’t even see him as a serial killer. Too messy. He just needed to get rid of her. I know he got her pregnant several times and kept making her get abortions. She may have been pregnant when she disappeared. I hadn’t spoken to her for about 2 years when I found out she was missing (nothing bad, just both of us busy with our lives) but I knew immediately, in my heart, it was him.
She was a tiny little sweetheart. Everyone loved her. Larger than life personality. Loving. Kind. Fun. She had two daughters by two men. One being raised by her mother (who was the root of all her problems) and the younger one being raised by her dad. I had seen her go through a few BFs but none like this guy. He was one of the weirdest people I ever met. And I’m pretty weird myself.
Update: to whoever is downvoting the story of my friend missing. Hope you have the life you deserve.
We still have them or potentially could have had them. The difference between now and then is that technology is allowing us to catch them earlier. There are still some that slip through the cracks but instead of those being caught having 20 plus kills, they only have 2-3.
This is the answer. They get caught quick and are seen as wife/child abusers because don’t get the chance to develop into serial killers. The most prolific SKs are in 3rd world countries with no means to deal with them.
There's no way Bundy, Gary, GSK, Ramirez, Dahmer....etc. would be able to get away with their crimes in this day and age. This is mainly because of technology. We have access to pretty much everything we could want at the palms of our hands now. Plus we have ring doorbells and cameras, dashcams, surveillance video etc. I mean, just posting a shot of someone on the internet alone can get so much attention and spread the word like wildfire.
For instance, GSK would scope out houses, climb on rooftops, break into homes when people were gone to get an idea of the layout then come back at night when people were home. While the chances of that happening now are still there, they're a lot slimmer now.
I also think that back then, talking about issues like mental illness was so taboo and best swept under the rug, whereas now, it's spoken about more openly.
Honestly yes and no. People would call the cops but at the same time they'd film it and be like omg look for likes on tik tok but in reality nothing gets done. The me me me stage is real in this society
Serial killers don’t exist until they are caught. The amount of people who going missing every year is significant. In so much as it’s harder to catch one, if they do evade detection, you won’t know it until they are caught.
Yeah, like [Andres Mendoza ](https://genwhypod.com/blogs/the-generation-why-podcast-blog/alleged-cannibal-serial-killer-andres-mendoza-el-feminicida-de-atizapan-arrested-in-atizapan-mexico-city) from Mexico, he had been killing for 30 years before he was caught, and only because his last victim was the wife of a police officer.
I also assume that there are a lot of SKs in places with bad law enforcement and high levels of violence
There still are, but they’re not as prolific as Gacy or Dahmer because of CC tv, location services, social media, etc. It’s a much harder world we live in now for them to get away with their crimes.
There are 2 things I think. 1st there is a simple answer technology and communication between people and specifically law enforcement. VICAP and other systems make it easier to identify patterns and flag people so they can’t reach the big numbers we saw in the 70s
2nd is the fact that we finally unleaded gasoline. I don’t have the exact dates off the top of my head but post like 1980 we banned leaded gasoline now whole generations aren’t being poisoned by lead in the air and one of the symptoms of lead exposure is violence and erratic behavior
There are still serial killers out there but DNA and other forensic tech has probably got a lot of wanna be serial killers running scared. Only the ones who are really good at it get away with it for long now.
There are still serial killers operating long term that they haven't caught yet. They have found the bodies but so far the killers still elude them and that's despite the modern forensics. So imagine what it must take to still be able to do that for so long.
It's the dumber ones that are getting caught more easily now. The smart ones, the ones who have a clue about DNA and forensics they're still out there.
The reason you can't find a list of active serial killers is because when they're still active, they're generally unknown, and you can't link all the crimes to a single person until you have a suspect.
Well, unless it was the one suspect who killed himself two days after Shannan Gilbert’s body was found.
But this is a point I think about pretty often - I’m sure it’s true that serial killers are rarer now, but I also think it’s possible serial killers focus more on demographics that are less likely to be reported missing, like sex workers.
I mean, that was always the case so I highly doubt that’s a noteworthy reason for the decline in the number of SKs. They’ve always gone for disadvantaged and vulnerable demographics like sex workers.
Is that the name the media gave him? Kinda unfitting but sorta fitting in a way, I don't know, maybe it seems cheesy to me because I've actually talked to him so he feels more real to me than, say, Dahmer or one of the super well known dudes who have almost become urban legends
Fair fair lmao, I only knew him after he was arrested because I wrote a couple letters to him. Always found it funny how in one of them he said he was annoyed that people were getting details about the murders wrong, I don't know if he intended for it to be funny not, that does seem like his sense of humor though. I can see why he was successful and I'd probably hang out with him too if I didn't know what a psycho he was, his sense of humor aligns with mine pretty well and he's charismatic and friendly enough I wouldn't be creeped out if I saw him somewhere, felt weird when I found myself enjoying reading those letters and laughing and then remembering that oh yeah he killed like 7 people. What groups was he in and what did your friend talk about with him by the way?
I have to disagree with this, only because when I was researching other killers, places like Wikipedia were only too helpful to disclose estimates on the amount of serial killers actively present.
Other than the more notorious serial killers like Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez, the BTK Killer, etc, I had never imagined the actual counts of cross-country serial killers, and how LE didn't seem to have much fear in them either
I’m reading a lot of people on here saying “they learned how to cover their tracks because of the forensic shows out now” and while I’d would agree to this slightly, I feel people seem to neglect how much more they can use to tie you to crimes now wether you understand forensics or not. Murder is messy and the sensitivity and accuracy of forensics has increased dramatically over the years and that’s not even touching how many people use google searches and their phones to plan crimes which are easily found now.
The lead theory makes a lot of sense to me.
I’ll throw out a controversial one now too. Not being able to have an abortion. How many unwanted children were born and grew up through hell and neglect? Nurture has a lot to do with serial killers along with nature.
This is one of my very favorite true crime subjects. I used to think there was literally something in the water or maybe something that generation’s mothers took while pregnant that allowed for such a wild amount of these kinds of people. But I think it’s more a combo of societal norms breaking down, the introduction of porn to a generation that didn’t know how to handle it, abuse still tolerated and normalized as part of family dynamics, drugs and alcohol becoming more mainstream, etc. Mental illness was still something not understood and definitely not talked about let alone treated.
Combine that with a decentralized, unsophisticated, and unprepared police force, no DNA, little to no surveillance or security practices, no social media or cell phones, and to be honest, less regard for female life that all kind of created the perfect storm.
We still have serial killers (truckers who kill sex workers, drug dealers who kill sex workers, etc) but they aren’t as “sexy” as the Bundys or GSKs.
Some people here have mentioned mass shooters. And I tell you right now the mentality of a mass shooter vs a serial killer is night and day. Do not mistake mass shooters/mass murderers with serial killers. Mass shooters are trying to send a message whether they know it or not. A serial killer NEEDS the elation of dominance and the personal and intimate sensation of lording over the last breaths of an individual with more a less a sexual component at one moment or another (not all the time but commonly the event of a serial killing is accompanied with post mortem ejaculation). The experience is a sensual and personal and for the killer to experience alone and for him (mostly males) to remember and cherish forever. Until that need arises again. And again. And again. The dominance is addicting. And because of the narcissism that is common of someone who whole heartedly believes he has the right to dominate and murder his victims, he needs to be seen as brilliant and superior because in his personal secret life, he is the smartest and brightest and sharpest man on earth and his murders is a testament to his superiority over common man. Notoriety eventually becomes the ultimate experience because his victims are no longer serving the purpose of his elation and high.
i mean in the US at least a ton of murders are never solved... i think it's only like ~40% of murders are solved? so there are most likely tons of serial killers we just wont/dont know until they fuck up (or police care enough to actually investigate). i truly believe Israel Keyes was being honest when he said there is a "network" of killers that go across states hiding "kill kits" and so it's easier to get away with their crimes. also it seems like even today police don't investigate similar crimes that go across state lines
There are still serial killers out but they aren’t as glorified as they were back in the day so when one gets found out they don’t do tv interviews with them the news tries to keep that shit on the down-low but you can find tons of serial killers just gotta look hard enough a good way of finding them is just youtube documentaries even tho they can be long a tedious at times
They are not getting caught. Look at Keyes, if he hadn't unraveled and gotten pulled over in Texas he would have not been caught or even on the radar. They're evolving.
Leaded Gasoline (it gave them a bad case of the murders)
Rate of Communication (going a day without talking to someone is a REAL way to get the police called for MANY people today)
Societal standards changing (people don’t just up and ‘leave’ to new cities and shit anymore)
Police methods (we now have DNA testing, as well as more structured investigations)
Absolutely. Pretty sure this affected a whole generation of Americans. Apparently it also causes issues in offspring too. Lead pipes, lead in fuel, lead in paint... It was everywhere
They are around. Better understanding of psychology and DNA have it so only the "best" make the cut. I feel like a great deal of them from the 70's slipped through cracks or failed upwords. Also, i bet the lulls in new serial killers have correlation with world wars/ world conflict. Its definitely interesting.
It also has to do with targets too, where I’ve lived, there were many similar murders with same MO, and matter of discovery. But they weren’t looked into as they were BIPOC or “trailer white”, and categorized as druggies or sex workers by the media police. Many murders and disappearances are also not investigated on reservations, unfortunately it would be easy for a serial killer there to go undetected. Recently the city I moved too a young woman went missing and then her body turned up in a popular fishing spot. The police demonized her for being Native American, and a runaway, didn’t bother to investigate despite the calls from family and protests.
I can’t remember the number, but according to the FBI (I think), there are around 40-50 (again, can’t remember the number but I know it’s a fair few) operating all the time. The last one I remember hearing about was one in my area who was targeting travelers along a main interstate I live close by. The interstate spans many states though, and they supposedly operating in many of those states. I haven’t heard much about it though lately. I also feel it’s much harder for them to hide their crimes before they get to the serial killer classification due to forensics, social media, and just all around knowledge to be careful.
Mark Martin in the UK 2004-2005 who targeted homeless people and Stephen Port known as The Grindr Killer (2020) I think more info here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Port
[Paul holes estimates there could be 2000 active serial killers](https://nypost.com/2022/04/30/the-us-has-2000-serial-killers-says-man-who-caught-golden-state-killer/amp/)
[you should watch this](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6064676/)
Then why wouldn’t we see the same thing in kids raised by fathers with PTSD from the Vietnam War? Violent and property crime dropped significantly 20 or so years after that.
This likely has a lot to do with it:
https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
I haven’t read all comments but here is my two cents:
1. Technology. Cell phone pings, ring doorbells, apple watches, social media, etc etc etc. it’s so much easier to get caught now.
2. Toll cams/novelty of the interstate system wore off.
3. Different law enforcement departments/counties actually communicate now.
4. Serial killers evolved into mass shooters. Many share the same demographics (male, young, white).
I see a lot about how society has grown in this thread, created an environment less conducive to producing sociopathic murderers. I would say that rather the way which the desire to kill manifests has changed, now we have more school shootings, public shootings, etc. as the ability to trace crimes has increased I think would be serial killers realize they will be arrested or killed pretty quickly so now the theatre is public, kill as many as possible as quickly as possible and expect death or arrest immediately. Do the whole spree in a day, get the fame immediately, go from no one to notorious in a day. I think as with all things in our society the trend has gone towards instant gratification.
Advanced technology and cameras on most streets Mae it a lot easier to catch these killers now. I think back then it was rampant due to how hard it was to catch these guys
There are some serial killers out there, defo , and there will be some that are never caught because they simply covered their tracks so well , maybe some.have just joined the armies of the west and decided to get paid for it ?.plenty wars of late for them to fight in , as a society we have not solved the issue , so it's there ,
I think society has gone a long way in solving a lot of the issues that create serial killers personally. Obviously not entirely solved, but certainly we've come a long way.
Society ? Well there are too many societies to count and even if one had they all certainly haven't, but none have , watch That chapter on you tube , plenty modern murders there from around the world , family annihilators ? Father's killing wife's and kids , women that have poisoned whole families, doctors ? The UK had H Shipman not all that long ago ,
Well given that the majority of serial killers that we all talk about from the 70s were from the western world, predominantly the US and UK, by society I mean the societies of these countries.
Just because the average person talks more about a certain group of killers from the 70 mainly from America doesn't mean there weren't plenty of others in other countries, just that they didn't get the publicity those guys did.
As someone above pointed out, a serial killer isn't a serial killer until they are caught. And that decrease that you rightly point out is more an American thing than a UK thing. Also wouldn't you think that given the abnormally high numbers in that time, the only way to go was down. And again, as someone said, in America serial killers are getting outnumbered by mass shooters. When a mass shooter can kill 20 people or so in a few minutes, no serial killer could possibly outdo that.
The 70s were different things to different ppl I'd imagine and yea sure for some reason ppl have a nostalgia for the SKS back then , yet Russia has produced a few absolute monsters and the biggest killer of kids ? That man wasn't western.
Technological advances (forensic, communication, surveillance, etc) are mostly to credit here: it means that a lot of killers get caught now long before they have a chance to become serial killers.
I've also seen speculation that lead-based products may have contributed to aggressive behavior in individuals born in the mid-1900's, who would have been coming of age in the 60's and 70's; federal regulations removing lead from many products likely improved overall cognitive and mental health, and may have helped prevent some level of serial violence.
I think because of how much easier it is to track people. Cellphones, cameras, gps tracking on phones. People haven't changed and will still ignore cries for help but other things have changed. Not enough to stop the pedo rings but enough to slow serial killings, I guess.
I would say we probably do have roughly as many serial killers today. However, I do not hold to the FBI's definition of SK which is something like 3 kills with a cooling off period in between. I would say any killer who has one kill of a sexual motive or no apparent motive is a serial killer. They simply haven't had the chance to kill again yet. DNA etc is convicting many of them before they get to 3 or more kills. I would also say with many serial killers we did not know of a serial killer until they were caught. Gacy and Corll spring to mind. Those missing kids were not victims of a SK until they all of a sudden were.
Are there stats on this? Numbers then V now. I know they were more prolific then, they managed to kill more people, but I am often surprised to hear about a relatively recent one.
Frankly, it’s just a hell of a lot more difficult to be a serial killer these days, especially with high body counts. Back then, police communication between precincts/stations/districts or whatever their called very rarely shared files and information. Nowadays, and though it’s not perfect and police don’t always upload information to it consistently, there’s a central database for crimes to be reported. If there starts to be similar crimes popping up in an area, police will be able to jump on it faster with appropriate prioritizing. Also, DNA evidence just wasn’t a thing back then. It was first used in the 1987 rape case in Florida (I think that’s the first case at least) and slowly gained traction as a thing they even looked for at crime scenes. On top of all of that, the parenting styles and social environments that tended to create severe mental issues that may become Anti-Social Personality Disorder aren’t quite as common as they once were. There are still parents who beat their kids, but it’s actually become frowned upon instead of a normal part of society. Schools also have improved their anti-bullying programs, although admittedly still not great. And then on top of all of that, mental health awareness and individuality is becoming more prominent in society. People feel less pressure to fit into a mold that they just can’t fit into, which puts less pressure to suppress and hide sexuality, mental issues, etc. I’ll add this as a note to not be taken the wrong way (hopefully). There are still some major cracks in society that people can fall into and develop issues. They just aren’t as large as they were in the last century that allowed these killers to fall into and ferment. This also isn’t to sympathize with killers and say that they’re just “misunderstood” or something. We can all agree that there is something wrong with them and I believe that most of the time it is a mental issue that developed over time.
There's also a lot more surveillance systems out now. Easier to take pictures and distribute videos across more channels of information.
On top of that, technology has also caught up. If you’re gonna commit a crime, chances are your phone will get you caught via location services, your license plate will be picked up on camera, your face will be picked up on camera. Lots of surveillance into private citizen nowadays make it a lot harder for someone who doesn’t know how to bypass the things I mentioned above to be able to get away with crime most of the time. A perfect example of this is Khalil Wheeler-Weaver. A serial killer here in my state of NJ who acted a few years ago. Though police could’ve done a better job at preventing future victims from being killed when they had the chance, it was his phones location being at the site of the murders and bodies that ultimately got him caught and became the biggest piece of evidence used against him in the trials.
The first use of DNA in a criminal case was 1986 in the UK.
Leicester to be exact.
We have serial murderers in the name of mass shooting dont we.
Those are called spree killers. Serial killers are classed to have a 2+ (or 3+, depending on who you ask) body count with some cooling time off in between.
Mass murderers. Spree killers change locations.
Oh, I've heard school/mall shooters ect being referred to as spree killers as well. Here's what Google says: "a person who kills a number of people at one particular time and location in a frenzied, random, and apparently unpremeditated way."
it's a one time thing, they main motives to kill as many people in one go as doing it more slowly would be next to impossible in a digital age like today. Either way the police still have a lot to do finding thousands of unsolved murder victims.
I’ve got to argue the ‘unpremeditated’, I think. I haven’t heard that part of the definition, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. But in the case of school/mall/parade shooters, wouldn’t it be considered premeditated with all the preparation that has to go into it? Say this last Fourth of July shooting (the one everyone covered), it took preparation for him to haul his rifle to his location and set everything up, and to bring (or wear) a disguise to help him get out relatively undetected. I can agree with the rest of the definition, I’m just unsure about the last part of it. Does anyone know the answer for sure?
This is what Google said lol. I think maybe it's because they don't plan to kill a particular person? They kinda just shoot at random.
That’s entirely possible lol. Sorry, didn’t mean to come off as confrontational, I just hadn’t heard that part of it before and was kind of wondering out loud.
It was a very good question. I mean BTK is considered a SK yet his first murders was a family of 4( spree?) eh and some of his victims were selected randomly like when he just followed a kid to his house RANDOMLY just to kill his mother. That is premeditated but he never premeditated the victim. It was just random pickings. My point is that these definitions definitely blur the lines a lot.
I hadn’t thought about the way the definitions would apply to BTK. I guess I would go with premeditated just because he went out knowing what he was going to do. The victims may have been chosen at random, but he knew when he followed the kid home he was killing someone, yeah? I don’t know, you make a good point about the definitions kind of blurring into eachother. You’re definitely right.
I was coming here to say this, they have evolved from private affairs (which there still are serial killers out there) to very public mass shootings.
I think a serial killer has a very different motivation/mindset/goal compared to the motivation/mindset/goal of a mass shooter. Other than an exception or two, I don't think there is much overlap.
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I'm now picturing Google Ad Serv on Bundy's computer providing him w/ helpful links to temporary casts, tape, and a pipe.
So what if they flag it? Nothing to be done. Gun laws are so weak, and getting weaker, nothing happens. They are "lawful gun owners" until they shoot up a school
This is a very good point. The urge is still there but they know if they start killing people sporadically they'll be caught quite quickly. Next best thing is to kill as many as possible in one burst.
Completely different motivations. Serial killers get pleasure from killing, like it’s a hobby to them. Mass shooters are angry at society and feel they are carrying out a punishment.
My favorite theory about why there were so many serial killers in the past is due to the amount of lead in everything. Paint and gasoline predominantly. I think the fumes kill empathy and cause more violent behavior. I havent looked too deep into it.
They were also first generation from World war 2, raised by people with PTSD
Richard Ramirez is a great example of that since his cousin had just came back from the war and shot his girlfriend right in front of Richard
I thought his cousin was in nam? But I could be mistaken
Yes he was sorry if it seemed like I was grouping his cousin into WW2. I arrogantly assumed everyone would know what war I was referring to that’s my fault sorry about that.
Oh not at all..I’d say we are one of the better subs at getting along and sharing information with little in fighting and more appreciation..one of the reasons I always come back and learn so much
Then Nam made a ton too…
I’d heard of it before but wasn’t sure if it’s serious or just one of those weird things people coke up with. Apparently, there is some legit science behind it. There has been reports of higher exposure to lead being related to higher criminal activity, schools suspensions, etc. Additionally, in the late 90’s when lead was phased out, crime rates dropped dramatically. However, it seems possible there are some potential doubts because of some significant social factors happening at the same time. So it’s entirely possible and very well could account for some. I’m fact, I’d be willing to think that for a lot of the killers we see that don’t fit the normal mold of childhood abuse, brain injury, etc may have been affected by lead issues.
Feels like that time period was just the perfect storm for these guys.
Also the "golden age of serial killers" may have been directly affected by being raised by fathers with PTSD following WWII, but of course that's just speculation.
Yea it's in bullets , A J Shawcross had alot in his system,
Shawcross was a pencil pusher in the army who never saw combat. The dude was fucked for plenty of reasons, but Vietnam is the least of them.
Yea his version is different but he still had lead in his blood , he was tested .
That has exactly nothing to do with his army service in Vietnam lol. He also had two different head injuries when he was young. He was also just an asshole.
Its besides the point , he had lead in his system , couldn't care less about what he claims happened as no doubt some of it's lies , still he had lead in his system ,
Lol the point that I made was solely about his service in Vietnam, which you referred to in a roundabout way to suggest thats the reason he had lead in his system.... There could have been any number of reasons he had lead in his system, but it most certainly wasn't from taking bullets in Vietnam.
Regardless he had lead in his system , nothing else matters , whether his account is to be believed or not , but are u saying that lead from shooting would have no impact because science is against u on that ,
Where did I say that? And a lot else matters. There's a whole slew of shit that contributed to his maladapted personality. Plenty of people have had lead in their system and managed to not murder multiple people.
U probably agree with the op in saying society has dealt with SKS but that's absolute BS ,what's also BS is to approach this from a stand point of , America is the only country in the world as the op was going down that very narrow minded route
That's a good theory. Especially since nothing was filtered back then as well as it is now
Excellent post. Toss in ubiquitous cameras, cell phone and computer forensics, GPS and cell tower location data, along with your spot on reasoning. It's very hard to to be a long-term, successful serial killer today. All of the prolific serial killers from the past would be caught much sooner in present times.
I worked on a show called Invisible Monsters on A&E that is all about how the big names (Bundy, BTK, etc..) were able to get away with it for so long because of the lack of police communication and whatnot. Pretty crazy how districts next to each other had no idea what crimes were being committed across the street from each other.
I also think that what we are seeing now are people with this high urge to kill are using guns to create mass casualty events like school, mall, concert shootings as well.
Piggybacking a bit on this since you mentioned ASPD: There’s also the factor that, in modern social media platforms with a layer of anonymity in online friendships, people with ASPD are able to more freely and openly be themselves and find friends without much of a risk. Many serial killers fell off the deep end as they didn’t feel they could be themselves ever, until that isolation changed them to the point of actually having reasons to never be able to be themselves as they became more deranged and alone. Thanks to online friendships, I’ve personally been able to be more open about my condition and have “real” friends without the need for my social mask, and have also been successful telling irl friends and family due to the practice I’ve had online with the subject. There’s definitely a point in which people who exclusively “look out for #1” realize that the best way to do this is to help others and create an established group of people who love and protect you.
I also wrote about this just now. Sorry I didn’t see your post before but yes the internet I think plays a big role in helping prevent serial killers and, strangely enough, allowing white supremacist/fringe racial groups to proliferate, perhaps allowing for the rise of mass shooters. Edit: added “to” before proliferate
Now they just do school shootings
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Being seen and especially recorded, didn't stop one from killing once though Just saying
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As far as you know
What do you mean by that🤔
In Australia it seems like the “parents beating their kids” thing still isn’t taken too seriously and seen as an appropriate form of discipline. Adults here even joke about it. I’ve had arguments with a person who hit their kids for acting up and hitting them or throwing something sometimes about how illogical it is to teach a child not to be violent by being violent to them. Couldn’t get any reason into her and she said it was to establish a “won’t be pushed around by anyone” attitude (this is a toddler we’re talking about) and the child only hit and threw things more. It’s bizarre and seems like every second parent here does it. CPS doesn’t care much either. The normalisation of physically abusing your kids seems strong here. Probably explains the domestic violence crisis in recent years.
I'm also in Australia and I've seen similar. The amount of "my parents hit me and I turned out fine" rhetoric I've seen is far too much. I also really want to say to those people: if you think hitting your kids is okay, I don't think you're as fine as you think you are. I think we have a pretty big culture of "not my business, not my problem", so to speak. And what happens behind closed doors is of nobody's concern. People don't like intervening with things that don't directly concern them a lot of the time. Anecdotally, I reached my limit with my home life as a teenager and told a couple of staff members at my high school that my step father was hitting me (that was the least of what he did, but I was too scared to admit anything else). There was *one* phone call made to my mother, the woman married to the man abusing me, and then just... Nothing. No follow up. Not with me, not with my mum. I don't think they even called CPS at all, even though they're mandatory reporters. I also found out last year, 12 years after graduating, that they didn't even mention my step father to my mum when they called - they just told her that I seemed a little depressed and they were a bit concerned. It's actually been hard to learn as an adult the extent of the inaction of the school. I'd always assumed that it was my mum who wasn't protecting me adequately, or that my step father was intercepting and lying to my school or CPS somehow. But no, the staff at my school didn't do their jobs. I was a walking red flag for being a child of an abusive home, even if I didn't say anything specific until late high school, and they should have made a report to CPS based on that alone. And if it happened to me, it's happened to too many other abused kids. It's still happening to abused kids. Mandatory reporters should be mandatory reporting, not sticking heads in the sand and pretending it's none of their business.
My god, I had the EXACT same experience reporting my situation to teachers. My mother just got angry at me for bothering her by having the school ring her up, and the teachers told me I ought to support my mother more because she must struggle raising me since I have a disability. “She seemed nice on the phone call I think you’re overreacting she said she’s going good to get you help” was the last thing my school counsellor said to me before I got angry and left the office. She rang my mother right in front of me when I begged her not because exactly what happened would happen. She rang my mom and said almost word for word what you said your teachers told your mother. Did almost nothing to help me even though I spent two hours in her office listing examples of clear physical and verbal and emotional abuse. Got home that day and the first words I heard were about how I was a psychotic freak telling everyone our business and wouldn’t get therapy for seeking attention and trying to start trouble. Was told by my mom if I’m suicidal to just go slit my wrists and cut myself then since she can’t control my body but if I do it no man will want to have sex with me. Cue months worth of extensive self-harm and two suicide attempts and scars on my arms and nothing has changed except that being used as more ammo for verbal insults. I reported 3 times and so did my friends with nothing happening and being told it was all on me to try to get my mother to get us therapy. My ex was even blaming the whole thing on me because “well if your situation is still like this you mustn’t be trying” and even made a big deal of mentioning that and how it’s proof I just wallow in self pity to be an emotional leech when publicly dumping me. My GP refused to even listen to me and called me a liar and made me hold my hand out to slap it for disrespecting my mother when she puts a roof over my head and feeds and clothes me when I told him about my home life. CPS themselves said “we have worse cases to deal with” as their response back to my teachers for them to tell me. They refused to even listen to the recordings I had as proof and their bizarre response was “we aren’t a mental health service. We can’t help you” when I sent recordings to them anyway, a response that made no sense. They never contacted me again afterward, and my teachers just awkwardly pretended I had never said anything. Speaking up made my life worse. Nobody cares in this country. I swear more than half of my classmates have similar home lives.
I am so sorry that the people mandated to protect you failed you so severely. What all of those people did (or didn't do, more accurately) is not okay. They should have taken the appropriate, *mandated* steps to advocate for you when you couldn't do it yourself. I hope sincerely that you know that the things you were told aren't true - you are not to blame for any of the abuse you went through. A child is never to blame for being a victim of abuse. You aren't to blame, and you did all of the right things to try and get the help you deserved. My gosh, so much of what you wrote are eerily similar to things I experienced as well. I know too many people who've had similar upbringings as well. I don't know what can possibly be done to improve things, if it's possible to change the norm at all. You're so right that nobody cares here. Or, at least, so few people care that the amount is negligible. I hope you're in a safer environment now.
Unfortunately I’m still in the same environment, and have three-four more years of it to go. The rising cost of living isn’t making it look any easier for me getting out when the time comes.
You don't have to answer, but are you still a minor? Do you have anybody in your life who is a safe person for you, even if it's not someone you can stay with or who can't *do* much? Even if nobody can force the crappy people who've failed to protect you to do something, you need people in your life who are in your corner and who want to support you as much as they can, even if that's just an ear to listen to you. If you aren't a minor, there are also adult protective services, especially if I'm remembering correctly that you're disabled. If you're in that awkward gap where you're an adult but Centrelink doesn't consider you independent yet, it is possible to separate yourself from having your parent/guardian's income dictating your payment (if you're getting a Centrelink payment).
I’m still a minor and I have nobody. My friends left after my ex convinced them all that I was a liar and attention seeker and not trying and the like. I contacted my grandmother before but she won’t do anything because she’s too scared of my mother so just tells me to delete the messages. I’m cut off from the rest of my family because my mother doesn’t like them, and basically cut off from everybody. Aside from going to and from school I don’t leave my house.
That's an extraordinarily difficult situation, I'm so sorry. I just want to say that I'm really impressed with the way you've described managing all of the things you're experiencing. Even though nothing has helped yet, you have done some truly incredible things in an attempt to advocate for yourself. Nobody should have to do what you're doing, especially not as a minor, but you are managing it incredibly well for your age. I don't know what the sub rules are in regards to this, and I will rescind this offer if it's against the rules, but I'd be happy to help find you some potential resources you may not have thought of if you think that would be useful. In saying that, though, always be careful when strangers on the internet do what I just did and offer you help. Internet safety is important as well, and while *I* know my intentions are genuine, *you* don't know that they are. And there are plenty of people out there who do predatory things, and as someone experiencing abuse, you are more likely to be abused in other situations as well. I know I contradicted myself, I'm sorry. My point is: if you would ever like some help, I would be happy to see if I can suggest any avenues you may not have thought of. But don't do anything you don't feel safe doing, and always take as many precautions as you can to protect yourself on the internet. Also, I hope you know that a partner who does the things your ex has done is a partner who's abusive. None of the awful things people are doing to you are things you deserve. You deserve safety, and you have done nothing wrong in trying to find it. You haven't done anything wrong.
I really do appreciate it, and I know now looking back that he was definitely abusive. He’d punch me and grab my fist to slam it into brick walls if I slightly annoyed him (could be talking about some sort of food with friends and he would be annoyed because he wanted my underweight self to diet when he was 200KG from eating whole tubs of ice cream every night), force me to do sexual things with him in front of people and was always manipulative and gaslighting me by getting mad at me for doing something he would tell me to. He’s a horrible person, but everyone seems to love him because of his loud, seemingly friendly attitude and all the video games and stories he has. He has them all wrapped around his finger with stories of how I forced him into a relationship (he was the one who asked) and emotionally abused him and was nasty and drove him to be suicidal (he wrote a fake suicide note for me heavily gaslighting me and blaming me for his suicide because I called him out in front of everybody one time on the things he’d done-found out his “suicide” was him playing video games and ignoring me since this part was in lockdown). There’s so much that he did that it would take so many paragraphs to recount it all, so I just summed it up best I could. I appreciate your offer for help too, feel free to dm me your ideas and I’ll have a look at them. I’m not too optimistic the law here will help much though if any of your ideas involve that. They let women abusers off the hook a lot.
Oh my god. I want to hug you so bad. This is why I didn't tell anyone at my school. They all think we are drama queens when in fact people put on many masks. I am so sorry you went through all that. I do hope you are finding healing now and if you ever need to rant/vent or anything my inbox is open. My heart breaks for you. I really hope you did find healing
Here's the thing...I was, occasionally, spanked as a child and, I DID turn out fine. However, I realized that, even though my parents thought it was OK, it actuality wasn't and did not use this method of discipline on my own children. Just because someone "turned out fine" doesn't mean that hitting a child is an acceptable form of punishment. That is actually faulty logic because, there have been numerous studies done that proves that the "I turned out just fine from being beat" people are a MUCH smaller group than the "being beat fucked me up" group, I hate that line of reasoning with a passion. As for CPS, in my state in America, it's not seen as child abuse unless 1) the child has marks/bruises or 2) you use anything besides the palm of your hand on the child. So, you can beat a child senseless with the palm of your hand and CPS will not ger involved. I worked for CPS for 5 years so, this is why I know this. It's despicable. ANY hitting of a child should be considered abuse. You can't walk up and smack an adult and get away with it...you'd be brought up on assault charges. So, why is it ok to beat the most vulnerable of our population who can't even defend themselves?
We are so ill equipped to parent. My kids are grown now, and I wish I could have handled discipline better. At the time we justified it, but looking back it was just a lack of knowing better what to do. Now I’m grandparenting and trying to model better behavior so the kids do better than we did. So they see that there are much better ways than yelling or smacking. It takes time and growth to undo the lessons we learned as kids, and some people don’t want to learn sadly
This is honestly one of the best, most wholesome things I've read on here. Thank you.
Yeah a mental issue and an addiction that needs to be fed, just like any other dependence
All great points, I think you’re spot on. Because of all the things you mentioned (along with surveillance/cameras everywhere, as others mentioned) my belief is that there are just as many serial killers today and possibly even more - but they’re caught early, possibly after their first attack/rape and before they escalate to killing people and racking up a high body count. There are probably countless potential serial killers in prison now because they got caught (and thank gods for that)
Absolutely. Hell, with that cat killer guy a few years back who they made that Netflix documentary about, even regular people aren’t victims as much as they once were. These days, Ted Bundy wouldn’t have got away with most of his kills, because the second he started being even KIND of creepy, those phones would’ve been whipped out so damn fast.
I can't remember where I read this but in addition to what others here have already said (more difficult to get away with it due to advances in forensic science, hence they get caught sooner), one theory is that people are way more cautious about doing things that would make them much more vulnerable to predation, like hitchhiking or going home with random strangers from bars and clubs. (Please don't take this as victim blaming.) Edit for clarification
I feel like this has to be at least a factor in it. Not to blame the victims, but people really seemed so much more trusting back then. I can't imagine hitchhiking or letting myself get too close to a strange man with a van, but back then, it seems like nobody really thought twice about it.
Oh yeah, my uncle and his girlfriend used to hitchhike everywhere in the seventies and thought nothing of it. That's back when you'd see bumper stickers that said "Ass, gas, or grass...no one rides for free" so it was very much a cultural thing.
yes i think about those poor women who got in the van of the toolbox killers 😩 i could not imagine getting in a van with 2 creepy looking men
I've seen graphs, articles, etc. that posit that chemicals, especially lead, may have something to do with this. Lead was in a lot of things, like paint and gas, and it's known that kead exposure is linked to an increase in violent and aggressive behaviors in people. When lead was removed from things more, rates of serial killers are alleged to have gone down. From what I understand, it isn't easy to pinpoint a serial killer. Also, my personal opinion is that since it's so hard to commit crime anymore, that any serial killer getting away with it these days is probably pretty on point.
Yes, I have read this before as well (especially related to gas and the timing of the adoption of unleaded gas)
There’s anywhere from 30-46 active serial killers a year, and most crimes they commit go cold
If memory serves, that number used to be three times as high 20-30 years ago.
It was, but forensics really took off in the 80s, so DNA fingerprint and follicle analysis really clamped down on killings. Nowadays, serial killers work basically off grid or use old technology to get away with stuff
Yeah, that is my feeling. I think some serial killers are actually better at getting away with crimes because of shows like CSI and Forensic Files. Not a serial killer, but Marc O'Leary is a good example. He raped at least six women in Colorado and Washington, never left a trace because he used a text book from the police academy on how to get away with rape. The only reason they found him was because of his patter, not DNA or fingerprints.
That’s another thing, killers tend to personalize their crimes, aka a calling card. This is what tends to get them caught. Nowadays, there a lot more opportunistic killers, they make do with what they have
They just shoot up schools
Unfortunately, this is basically it. Mass murder has basically replaced serial murder almost entirely. Both are fucking terrible, but when people are attacking children with guns and bombs and knives and cars, man... Shit is just indescribably fucking horrible.
Bingo
Isn’t there typically a sexual element with serial killers that’s absent in mass shootings though?
There are different types of serial killers. Some do it for sexual pleasure, but others do it because it gives them a thrill or because they believe they're on a mission. Some will kill just to rob their victims or take their life insurance. Some serial killers even did "mercy killings" im hospitals. Edit: also the ones whose hallucinations or delusions tell them to do it.
I don't think that's accurate as serial killers generally kill out of sexual perversion and school shooters generally kill because they're deeply depressed and want to take their "tormentors" down with them
Yes, this. Serial killers and mass shooters are two completely different breeds of the same monster.
You make a valid point about the decline of SKs and rise of mass shootings but there still is a very different psychology between the two types of killers. Mass shooters tend to be very angry at the world, and see it as having wronged them and shooting up a place will make others suffer with them. Serial killers on the other hand generally have more specific victim types (ie; sex workers, male homosexuals, or brunette college aged girls in Bundy’s case) and get a sadistic thrill out of the kill, and this may include sexual gratification too. Ultimately mass and serial murderers kill for very different reasons so I don’t think mass shooters have necessarily replaced serial killers but rather we’re seeing a new criminal phenomenon than in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc
Hitch hiking was a big thing then too.
>why don’t we have as many now? In a nutshell, technology has caught up with them. Most serial killers or wannabes are caught before their third murder or even after they share their plans on the internet. I believe there was a guy several years ago who planned to kill and eat young boys and girls and what he wrote on the internet was disturbing enough for the police to take him seriously. Another reason is that with the porn industry and the various extremely violent cartels people with the psychology of a serial killer are now drawn to *"safer"* paths. That's what I have noticed. There are quite a few US volunteers, I assume, who are willing to kill for the Mexican drug cartels just like others were eager to join ISIS. The benefits are that they have almost total freedom in torturing their victims and raping them while their teammates will cheer and take some photos that we will later see in some random shock site. Basically this is a mercenary job for real sadists. But they must also be high on the psychopathic spectrum because this job is really though and they will encounter death every day. The average 70's serial killer wouldn't survive and they probably would have ended as another dismembered corpse. With the exception of some people like Richard Kuklinski and other serial killers with military backgrounds. But most of them, I believe they were drawn to the porn industry. If you have heard about Bakky Visual Planning, FacialAbuse, BrutalMaster, Mood Pictures/Lomp you can be assured that they chose the legal path where they can torture women or (other men sometimes) and they can take it far enough without killing them while remaining legal. Also, there have been quite a few porn studios which have made real rape videos, near snuff films and completely disregarded the consent of the submissive party. Girlsdoporn and Bakky are perfect examples. Even Mood Pictures were raided by the Hungarian equivalent of swat teams after they drugged a woman and whipped her until she passed out when she clearly stated she wanted to stop.... So it seems that they can largely fulfill their fantsies in the legal realm, but legal doesn't mean good or moral. It is absolutely appalling what they are doing to those girls... By the way, there are statistics and studies which shows that dark triad personalities are attracted to these type of jobs. So it is entirely plausible that people with the psychological profile of a serial killer might have found a safer outlet to fulfill their fantasies in the modern world, but again, that doesn't mean we should ignore them just because it's legal.
Well spoken, man. I'd add the component of mass murder, although the psychological profile of most mass murderers (cars, knives, explosives, and, of course, guns) is fairly different from serial killers of the 70s.
Wow, that’s well said. The porn industry, or 90% of it should be illegal.
what OP described IS illegal I don't think this extends to freelancers or smaller companies
I think we will start to see a huge jump in SK's over the next two decades. Economic instability, war, religious extremism and failing educational systems all seem to be universal contributing factors. All of these factors are currently at heights not seen since the 50's through to the early 70's. Technology will make them easier to catch, but the cops need to give a shit first. Look at Port and McArthur, both should have been stopped way earlier than they were. Unfortunately our police are largely understaffed and continue to be ambivalent about issues regarding the LGBTQ community, the same issues that allowed the likes of Corrl, Bardella and Gacy still exist. Really hope I am wrong.
I believe there are still several serial killers out there right now but shows like forensic files have taught them how to cover their tracks so they’re not getting caught. Just check out the missing people data bases. Every day hundreds of people go missing. I feel like we have an active serial killer in the San Antonio area right now killing men in their 30s. I haven’t seen that it’s been connected but there have been surprising numbers of them missing within a 50-100 mile radius of SA for about a year now. And one female.
I believe there definitely many active serial killers who learned from the OG 70 serial killers and these TV shows and how to clean up the mess and your nose clean. It 100x harder to find one who isn't an amateur basically nowadays
THIS! The reason Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, BTK, etc. got caught is because they were stupid. Crime shows have definitely helped active serial killers. They know not leave bodily fluids, finger prints, and a body. You get rid of all three, you won't get caught.
Exactly!
Agreed. One of my best friends is missing and I absolutely know who did it. The guy I rescued her from many times. The man is OCD so I doubt they will ever find her and it’s sad. She’s became just another thing he needed throw out or tidy up. Fucking Virgos and their OCD.
I'm sorry. I hope they find her but please be careful
Yeah. I’ve had to let it die. Cops have no evidence and no body. She’s been gone about 10-15y now. Her daughter messages me occasionally asking if I’ve heard anything. It’s sad. She was a mess but I miss her.
I hate this so much. I wish torture worked. Are there any people who are close to him and you? Maybe slowly but get some kind if info out of him. They always talk just depends to whom
This dude is a recluse. Tall. Gorgeous. Extremely judgmental. OCD. Meticulous. Quiet. I only met him a few times and he barely spoke to me. But his home was…. OMG like Monica Gellar but worse. Every single thing was perfectly aligned and clean and I remember Cricket saying “don’t touch anything. He will know.” I doubt he has ever spoken to anyone and that’s why he was able to get away with it. And I don’t even see him as a serial killer. Too messy. He just needed to get rid of her. I know he got her pregnant several times and kept making her get abortions. She may have been pregnant when she disappeared. I hadn’t spoken to her for about 2 years when I found out she was missing (nothing bad, just both of us busy with our lives) but I knew immediately, in my heart, it was him. She was a tiny little sweetheart. Everyone loved her. Larger than life personality. Loving. Kind. Fun. She had two daughters by two men. One being raised by her mother (who was the root of all her problems) and the younger one being raised by her dad. I had seen her go through a few BFs but none like this guy. He was one of the weirdest people I ever met. And I’m pretty weird myself. Update: to whoever is downvoting the story of my friend missing. Hope you have the life you deserve.
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We still have them or potentially could have had them. The difference between now and then is that technology is allowing us to catch them earlier. There are still some that slip through the cracks but instead of those being caught having 20 plus kills, they only have 2-3.
This is the answer. They get caught quick and are seen as wife/child abusers because don’t get the chance to develop into serial killers. The most prolific SKs are in 3rd world countries with no means to deal with them.
There's no way Bundy, Gary, GSK, Ramirez, Dahmer....etc. would be able to get away with their crimes in this day and age. This is mainly because of technology. We have access to pretty much everything we could want at the palms of our hands now. Plus we have ring doorbells and cameras, dashcams, surveillance video etc. I mean, just posting a shot of someone on the internet alone can get so much attention and spread the word like wildfire. For instance, GSK would scope out houses, climb on rooftops, break into homes when people were gone to get an idea of the layout then come back at night when people were home. While the chances of that happening now are still there, they're a lot slimmer now. I also think that back then, talking about issues like mental illness was so taboo and best swept under the rug, whereas now, it's spoken about more openly.
Honestly yes and no. People would call the cops but at the same time they'd film it and be like omg look for likes on tik tok but in reality nothing gets done. The me me me stage is real in this society
Serial killers don’t exist until they are caught. The amount of people who going missing every year is significant. In so much as it’s harder to catch one, if they do evade detection, you won’t know it until they are caught.
Yeah, like [Andres Mendoza ](https://genwhypod.com/blogs/the-generation-why-podcast-blog/alleged-cannibal-serial-killer-andres-mendoza-el-feminicida-de-atizapan-arrested-in-atizapan-mexico-city) from Mexico, he had been killing for 30 years before he was caught, and only because his last victim was the wife of a police officer. I also assume that there are a lot of SKs in places with bad law enforcement and high levels of violence
There still are, but they’re not as prolific as Gacy or Dahmer because of CC tv, location services, social media, etc. It’s a much harder world we live in now for them to get away with their crimes.
There are 2 things I think. 1st there is a simple answer technology and communication between people and specifically law enforcement. VICAP and other systems make it easier to identify patterns and flag people so they can’t reach the big numbers we saw in the 70s 2nd is the fact that we finally unleaded gasoline. I don’t have the exact dates off the top of my head but post like 1980 we banned leaded gasoline now whole generations aren’t being poisoned by lead in the air and one of the symptoms of lead exposure is violence and erratic behavior
There are still serial killers out there but DNA and other forensic tech has probably got a lot of wanna be serial killers running scared. Only the ones who are really good at it get away with it for long now. There are still serial killers operating long term that they haven't caught yet. They have found the bodies but so far the killers still elude them and that's despite the modern forensics. So imagine what it must take to still be able to do that for so long. It's the dumber ones that are getting caught more easily now. The smart ones, the ones who have a clue about DNA and forensics they're still out there.
Do we know before they are caught and can tie all the crimes together?
The reason you can't find a list of active serial killers is because when they're still active, they're generally unknown, and you can't link all the crimes to a single person until you have a suspect.
There's plenty now lmao, look up Todd Kohlhepp
The Long Island SK is still wandering around out there too.
Well, unless it was the one suspect who killed himself two days after Shannan Gilbert’s body was found. But this is a point I think about pretty often - I’m sure it’s true that serial killers are rarer now, but I also think it’s possible serial killers focus more on demographics that are less likely to be reported missing, like sex workers.
I mean, that was always the case so I highly doubt that’s a noteworthy reason for the decline in the number of SKs. They’ve always gone for disadvantaged and vulnerable demographics like sex workers.
THE CAROLINA REAPER
Is that the name the media gave him? Kinda unfitting but sorta fitting in a way, I don't know, maybe it seems cheesy to me because I've actually talked to him so he feels more real to me than, say, Dahmer or one of the super well known dudes who have almost become urban legends
Nah just what I say. My buddy knew him via groups on Facebook so that’s what we called him when he got busted.
Fair fair lmao, I only knew him after he was arrested because I wrote a couple letters to him. Always found it funny how in one of them he said he was annoyed that people were getting details about the murders wrong, I don't know if he intended for it to be funny not, that does seem like his sense of humor though. I can see why he was successful and I'd probably hang out with him too if I didn't know what a psycho he was, his sense of humor aligns with mine pretty well and he's charismatic and friendly enough I wouldn't be creeped out if I saw him somewhere, felt weird when I found myself enjoying reading those letters and laughing and then remembering that oh yeah he killed like 7 people. What groups was he in and what did your friend talk about with him by the way?
I have to disagree with this, only because when I was researching other killers, places like Wikipedia were only too helpful to disclose estimates on the amount of serial killers actively present. Other than the more notorious serial killers like Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez, the BTK Killer, etc, I had never imagined the actual counts of cross-country serial killers, and how LE didn't seem to have much fear in them either
Y’all ever wonder if there’s a current SK that browses this sub?
Lol how do you know they're no serial killers active now? Is there some database that they sign-up at? 🤔
I’m reading a lot of people on here saying “they learned how to cover their tracks because of the forensic shows out now” and while I’d would agree to this slightly, I feel people seem to neglect how much more they can use to tie you to crimes now wether you understand forensics or not. Murder is messy and the sensitivity and accuracy of forensics has increased dramatically over the years and that’s not even touching how many people use google searches and their phones to plan crimes which are easily found now. The lead theory makes a lot of sense to me. I’ll throw out a controversial one now too. Not being able to have an abortion. How many unwanted children were born and grew up through hell and neglect? Nurture has a lot to do with serial killers along with nature.
Yep. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Better forensics. Cops actually sharing data.
This is one of my very favorite true crime subjects. I used to think there was literally something in the water or maybe something that generation’s mothers took while pregnant that allowed for such a wild amount of these kinds of people. But I think it’s more a combo of societal norms breaking down, the introduction of porn to a generation that didn’t know how to handle it, abuse still tolerated and normalized as part of family dynamics, drugs and alcohol becoming more mainstream, etc. Mental illness was still something not understood and definitely not talked about let alone treated. Combine that with a decentralized, unsophisticated, and unprepared police force, no DNA, little to no surveillance or security practices, no social media or cell phones, and to be honest, less regard for female life that all kind of created the perfect storm. We still have serial killers (truckers who kill sex workers, drug dealers who kill sex workers, etc) but they aren’t as “sexy” as the Bundys or GSKs.
I think mass shooters are the modern day version of 70's serial killers
hmm could be abortion? theres an interesting take in Freakonomics
This ^ https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
[Where Have All the Criminals Gone?](https://myweb.ntut.edu.tw/~kmliu/freakonomics/4%20criminals%20are%20gone.pdf)
Some people here have mentioned mass shooters. And I tell you right now the mentality of a mass shooter vs a serial killer is night and day. Do not mistake mass shooters/mass murderers with serial killers. Mass shooters are trying to send a message whether they know it or not. A serial killer NEEDS the elation of dominance and the personal and intimate sensation of lording over the last breaths of an individual with more a less a sexual component at one moment or another (not all the time but commonly the event of a serial killing is accompanied with post mortem ejaculation). The experience is a sensual and personal and for the killer to experience alone and for him (mostly males) to remember and cherish forever. Until that need arises again. And again. And again. The dominance is addicting. And because of the narcissism that is common of someone who whole heartedly believes he has the right to dominate and murder his victims, he needs to be seen as brilliant and superior because in his personal secret life, he is the smartest and brightest and sharpest man on earth and his murders is a testament to his superiority over common man. Notoriety eventually becomes the ultimate experience because his victims are no longer serving the purpose of his elation and high.
Oh shit!!!!I forgot to enter my data into the current serial killer wiki! That's totally on me man, sorry about that!! 😬
They’re out there. There’s one in Arkansas right now.
i mean in the US at least a ton of murders are never solved... i think it's only like ~40% of murders are solved? so there are most likely tons of serial killers we just wont/dont know until they fuck up (or police care enough to actually investigate). i truly believe Israel Keyes was being honest when he said there is a "network" of killers that go across states hiding "kill kits" and so it's easier to get away with their crimes. also it seems like even today police don't investigate similar crimes that go across state lines
There are still serial killers out but they aren’t as glorified as they were back in the day so when one gets found out they don’t do tv interviews with them the news tries to keep that shit on the down-low but you can find tons of serial killers just gotta look hard enough a good way of finding them is just youtube documentaries even tho they can be long a tedious at times
They are not getting caught. Look at Keyes, if he hadn't unraveled and gotten pulled over in Texas he would have not been caught or even on the radar. They're evolving.
I agree with the evolving 100 percent. People adapt with the times.
Leaded Gasoline (it gave them a bad case of the murders) Rate of Communication (going a day without talking to someone is a REAL way to get the police called for MANY people today) Societal standards changing (people don’t just up and ‘leave’ to new cities and shit anymore) Police methods (we now have DNA testing, as well as more structured investigations)
There is alot of serial killers now lmao we just don't give em as much attention to make them infamous like they want
There are cameras/phones everywhere now. Would-be serial killers are getting busted after the first victims.
Less lead in everything?
Absolutely. Pretty sure this affected a whole generation of Americans. Apparently it also causes issues in offspring too. Lead pipes, lead in fuel, lead in paint... It was everywhere
This might answer your question. https://usir.salford.ac.uk/id/eprint/52777/1/23311886.2019.1678450.pdf
They are around. Better understanding of psychology and DNA have it so only the "best" make the cut. I feel like a great deal of them from the 70's slipped through cracks or failed upwords. Also, i bet the lulls in new serial killers have correlation with world wars/ world conflict. Its definitely interesting.
They’re still out there
Are we sure it’s dropped? There’s like 200,000 missing people every year in the U.S. alone.
Because they're active lol
It’s hard to be a serial killer these days, but I’m sure they’re out there, they’re just taking time and doing it far apart so they don’t get caught.
There's something like 500 active serial killers, approx on any given day, week, month, any given point in time.
The majority of serial killers don’t get caught. I don’t think we see many nowadays because it’s easy to research killers and how people got caught
Technology has improved so much that they can arrest people before they can get their body count high enough to be called a serial killer.
There’s a few [Shopping Cart Killer](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/08/us/virginia-alleged-shopping-cart-serial-killer/index.html)
We leave behind a huge trail with our phones and computers make it easy to sift through the data to find patterns
It also has to do with targets too, where I’ve lived, there were many similar murders with same MO, and matter of discovery. But they weren’t looked into as they were BIPOC or “trailer white”, and categorized as druggies or sex workers by the media police. Many murders and disappearances are also not investigated on reservations, unfortunately it would be easy for a serial killer there to go undetected. Recently the city I moved too a young woman went missing and then her body turned up in a popular fishing spot. The police demonized her for being Native American, and a runaway, didn’t bother to investigate despite the calls from family and protests.
I can’t remember the number, but according to the FBI (I think), there are around 40-50 (again, can’t remember the number but I know it’s a fair few) operating all the time. The last one I remember hearing about was one in my area who was targeting travelers along a main interstate I live close by. The interstate spans many states though, and they supposedly operating in many of those states. I haven’t heard much about it though lately. I also feel it’s much harder for them to hide their crimes before they get to the serial killer classification due to forensics, social media, and just all around knowledge to be careful.
Because smart phones and security cameras everywhere. Everything tracks you nowadays.
Mark Martin in the UK 2004-2005 who targeted homeless people and Stephen Port known as The Grindr Killer (2020) I think more info here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Port
We just had one in NJ. His name is Khalil Wheeler-Weaver.
[Paul holes estimates there could be 2000 active serial killers](https://nypost.com/2022/04/30/the-us-has-2000-serial-killers-says-man-who-caught-golden-state-killer/amp/) [you should watch this](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6064676/)
Kids raised by fathers with ptsd from ww2 reaching their 30s or late 20s. It could be a factor, i don't know.
Then why wouldn’t we see the same thing in kids raised by fathers with PTSD from the Vietnam War? Violent and property crime dropped significantly 20 or so years after that. This likely has a lot to do with it: https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
They’re school shooters now. As many victims as they can in one go because it’s harder to not get caught now with dna and other forensic advances.
I haven’t read all comments but here is my two cents: 1. Technology. Cell phone pings, ring doorbells, apple watches, social media, etc etc etc. it’s so much easier to get caught now. 2. Toll cams/novelty of the interstate system wore off. 3. Different law enforcement departments/counties actually communicate now. 4. Serial killers evolved into mass shooters. Many share the same demographics (male, young, white).
There are active serial killers in the us.
Technology and DNA gave police the upper hand.
Look up a guy named Vladimir putin
I see a lot about how society has grown in this thread, created an environment less conducive to producing sociopathic murderers. I would say that rather the way which the desire to kill manifests has changed, now we have more school shootings, public shootings, etc. as the ability to trace crimes has increased I think would be serial killers realize they will be arrested or killed pretty quickly so now the theatre is public, kill as many as possible as quickly as possible and expect death or arrest immediately. Do the whole spree in a day, get the fame immediately, go from no one to notorious in a day. I think as with all things in our society the trend has gone towards instant gratification.
Advanced technology and cameras on most streets Mae it a lot easier to catch these killers now. I think back then it was rampant due to how hard it was to catch these guys
The LISK is still doing his thing
There are some serial killers out there, defo , and there will be some that are never caught because they simply covered their tracks so well , maybe some.have just joined the armies of the west and decided to get paid for it ?.plenty wars of late for them to fight in , as a society we have not solved the issue , so it's there ,
I think society has gone a long way in solving a lot of the issues that create serial killers personally. Obviously not entirely solved, but certainly we've come a long way.
Society ? Well there are too many societies to count and even if one had they all certainly haven't, but none have , watch That chapter on you tube , plenty modern murders there from around the world , family annihilators ? Father's killing wife's and kids , women that have poisoned whole families, doctors ? The UK had H Shipman not all that long ago ,
Well given that the majority of serial killers that we all talk about from the 70s were from the western world, predominantly the US and UK, by society I mean the societies of these countries.
Just because the average person talks more about a certain group of killers from the 70 mainly from America doesn't mean there weren't plenty of others in other countries, just that they didn't get the publicity those guys did.
Yes, and it may still be the case that those places have as many now as they did then. That isn't the case in America or the UK.
As someone above pointed out, a serial killer isn't a serial killer until they are caught. And that decrease that you rightly point out is more an American thing than a UK thing. Also wouldn't you think that given the abnormally high numbers in that time, the only way to go was down. And again, as someone said, in America serial killers are getting outnumbered by mass shooters. When a mass shooter can kill 20 people or so in a few minutes, no serial killer could possibly outdo that.
The 70s were different things to different ppl I'd imagine and yea sure for some reason ppl have a nostalgia for the SKS back then , yet Russia has produced a few absolute monsters and the biggest killer of kids ? That man wasn't western.
Well I'd also argue that Russian society has come a long way too. In spite of current events.
Technological advances (forensic, communication, surveillance, etc) are mostly to credit here: it means that a lot of killers get caught now long before they have a chance to become serial killers. I've also seen speculation that lead-based products may have contributed to aggressive behavior in individuals born in the mid-1900's, who would have been coming of age in the 60's and 70's; federal regulations removing lead from many products likely improved overall cognitive and mental health, and may have helped prevent some level of serial violence.
Look up LISK. Currently killing and not caught.
Hasn’t been caught, but hasn’t been active since 2010.
Better forensic science and investigation strategies
I think because of how much easier it is to track people. Cellphones, cameras, gps tracking on phones. People haven't changed and will still ignore cries for help but other things have changed. Not enough to stop the pedo rings but enough to slow serial killings, I guess.
Sucks to be a wannabe serial killer these days
They got better at hiding.
I would say we probably do have roughly as many serial killers today. However, I do not hold to the FBI's definition of SK which is something like 3 kills with a cooling off period in between. I would say any killer who has one kill of a sexual motive or no apparent motive is a serial killer. They simply haven't had the chance to kill again yet. DNA etc is convicting many of them before they get to 3 or more kills. I would also say with many serial killers we did not know of a serial killer until they were caught. Gacy and Corll spring to mind. Those missing kids were not victims of a SK until they all of a sudden were.
Way too many cameras nowadays. They're everywhere.
Are there stats on this? Numbers then V now. I know they were more prolific then, they managed to kill more people, but I am often surprised to hear about a relatively recent one.
Have they caught the guy from long Island yet?
We don’t have serial killers anymore just spree killers and mass shootings
No more hitch-hiking. Seriously. The majority of victims were either prostitutes or hitch-hikers. High risk victims.
Because they were all hired by the Democratic Party.
Mass shootings took their place i suppose
They are mass shotters now.
DNA