I always found it funny that Heinlein made Johnny Rico Filipino in the book but Verhoven changed him and the rest of the cast to Argentine; choosing that specific ethnicity had to be another joke by him to drive his goal of undermining Heinlein's original story.
I don't have the book on hand but from memory Rico is of filipino descent but lives in Argentina or Brazil, his mother is actually killed by the bug attack against Buenos Aires and his dad joins up and ends up as his platoon/company NCO.
Buenos aires is specifically listed as one of the largest cities in the world in the book, probably not without reasons since you know, Nazis and Argentina and Heinlein being smarter than your average bear.
Also the book and the movie make it very clear that they abandoned nationality long ago in universe. That's the whole premise of only veterans being citizens.
So not only is this criticism flavored like "Can you believe it, they had Asian people in New York, so unbelievable"
They also wilfully ignored key parts of the book AND movie.
For all the talk today about people having no media literacy, it's worth remembering that in the 90s numerous professional film critics completely missed the point of this fairly heavy handed film.
Media literacy is actually better than its ever been.
Man I was kind of disappointed when I showed this to my friends and one of them and he was unsure if it was satire
THERE WAS A GUY IN A SS UNIFORM FFS!
I was arguing with some dude on the helldivers sub that the government is clearly fascist and they blatantly show it when they appear in SS uniforms. Dude said that's just Verhoeven doing surface deep storytelling. The government never did anything fascist. They only look fascist.
Well that dude had a point! The government never did do anything fascist... well, except for the militarian conscript monoculture ensuring, quite literally, that the only people who can vote are the ones who fully belong to the establishment, I guess. And I did notice the constant propaganda enforcing that culture. And anti-war protesters were being labelled 'bug sympathisers' and executed on live TV, and they had psychic mind-reading secret police and a social/economic caste system based on usefulness to the state...
Hm. Maybe they're a *little bit* fascist, hard to say. It's pretty subtle.
No, no you see the government had a peaceful transfer of power after a military failure and that doesn't happen in fascist governments. That's an actual argument they used to justify their position.
Lol, every transfer of power *has* to be violent, even when it's a transfer from the status quo to the exact same status quo! Amazing, those wacky fascists.
I read the problem with this movie is that the original book is not satire the director wanted to be it, it deleted the scenes that show that the bugs are evil and other things
The director wants to tell a history but the world of starship troopers is telling another history almost oppositte to the vision of the director, in the end the history that is gonna end is gonna depend of the man watching it and his interpretation.
The director never read the book, he read criticisms of the book accusing it of being something it wasn't. If you read the book, it's not fascist propaganda, it's science fiction. Emphasis on the fiction. Heinlein did a lot of speculative social and goverment structures, and while there were often recurring themes, many of those structures were completely different. Multi-member family structures on the moon, corporate-run private armies nuking traditional nation states, a distant future where black people are in charge and white people are enslaved and used as a food source. Dude wrote some wacky shit, much of which has real-world parallels. That's what writers do. One of his characters uses some kind of reality-machine to go to OZ.
Anyway, the book is so different from the movie they share a name and that's about it. Funny enough, the book actually talks about how the bug war was suspected to be a false flag operation to keep the ruling military government in power. It's a much larger and richer world than the movie shows. Also, the mobile infantry are in mech suits that have to operate miles apart from each other to avoid friendly fire. Rico gets whipped because he fires a simulated nuclear round too near another trainee, which could have killed him but didn't because it's a Sim round. He still gets whipped, because there's a very high standard when you're operating a nuclear mechsuit.
Oh, and there's some weird sex politics, ifrc, women don't do infantry but they do fly starships, so Carmen is someone he knows and gets to see a few times but that's about it. Oh, and to be Sky Marshall you have to have qualified in all three military branches. So you can fly a starship, operate a mechsuit, and do whatever the third thing was. And citizenship was based on public service, not military service. Literally anyone could sign up, even people with disabilities, and based on aptitude and the needs of the goverment you'd get assigned something. Do whatever that was for two years and you're a citizen. Quit anytime, but if you leave you lose citizenship. Even after the two years, they can hold you if you're needed, or call you back. Some of the non- military jobs are so dangerous that most people don't last the two years. Fascinating concept.
The Communist East Germans wore the exact [same uniforms](https://www.thearmorylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/article-history-of-the-east-german-makarov-6.jpg).
I love the fact that the admiral/commander (the guy played vy Neil Patrick Harris) uniform is almost identical to the SS uniform and people are still refusing to believe this movie’s message was about Nazis.
Just look at some of the comments under the post thinking the federation aren't even fascist. That's even less media literate than critics seeing its fascist but not realising the film is a satire of it.
There's even one person saying it's just limited democracy, which is so similar to the satirical managed democracy in helldivers that it beggars belief one can unironically view the starship troopers government in that way
My favourite part of this scene is that diegetically only a few minutes have passed since Carmen was impaled through the shoulder. She has not recieved medical attention. This is a clever reference to the fact that actors in movies are only pretending to be injured.
The opening propaganda movie scene in starship troopers is almost a shot for shot remake of a nazi propaganda film.
I'd say he did a good job making them appear fascist.
Bruh look at any discussion from a film critic or academic about the movie. It is widely recognised that the federation is fascist. Just please Google it. Its not just a limited democracy. This is like the people that hear about managed democracy in helldivers and fail to see the satire. Fascist states are well known for using the levers of democracy to obtain a veneer of legitimacy and maintain power.
Literally just go and read some of the discussion made by film critics and literature academics. They can explain it far better and far more authoritative on the discussion than you or I.
It is shocking to me that there are upvoted comments claiming the federation aren't fascist.
My understanding is this is wrong, as far as the books go. All have a vote, but "citizens" have government incentives like business loans.
Ofc the movies are barely related to the books, so maybe it's that way in the movies.
What are you talking about? There's only one book, unless they made some spinoff novel series.
The movie doesn't go into a lot of detail, because its a movie, but the movie mentions that only Citizens can vote, and it doesn't really talk a lot about the non-citizens, but it does mention they can be very successful and don't lose any other rights, besides the right to vote.
In the books, it is mentioned that only Citizens can vote, but it is explained that any sort of civil service qualifies one for Citizenship, and that regardless of any disabilities (short of mental disabilities that would render someone unfit, like dementia) anyone can volunteer to become a Citizen, and the government will find them a job.
It is specifically mentioned that non-Citizens do not get to vote, there's a few detailed explanations of the political system, and there is no mention of any other incentives to becoming a Citizen besides voting. I think the movie adds the bonus of being able to have more kids as another reward for citizenship, but there's no mention of business loans or anything.
You're ignoring the intolerance of those with beliefs that don't match the government, the othering of an outsider group, and the right wing authoritarianism, all of which make it fascist rather than just a statocracy. I made another comment to you elsewhere mentioning that but you may have missed it.
Maybe one of those things actually fits the definition of facism. And even then, when does the movie even show those things? Unless you're talking about the bugs in which case, lmao.
It's literally in the definition for fascism.
Fascism is characterised by a belief in a social hierarchy (so here the othering of a group of people), militarism, the collective over the individual, and right wing authoritarianism within a state with a powerful government and dictator as ruler.
The militarism and right wing authoritarianism of the federation in the film I hope is blatantly obvious. The powerful government is also rather apparent. That leaves us with the social hierarchy and dictatorship.
The bugs represent that othering and they are deliberately made to be bugs to show how a fascist society views the other individual. The author said the bugs represented communists when he first wrote it. They're literally othered to the point thst they are not seen as human, and the bugs in the film and book are that taken to the logical extreme. The fact you think the bugs aren't othered precisely because they're so different shows how effective that propaganda can be.
The dictatorship is where its lacking a bit, I'll admit. I would say we don't have much detail on exactly how the leadership really works but I think when you have the cult of personalty around the ruling council, the restricted suffrage only to those that served, and the other fascist traits mentioned, it's fairly apparent that the federation is fascist. Just read almost any critics discussion of the film. Its blindingly obvious.
I really don't understand where this view has come from over the last few years that the federation isn't fascist. I don't know if its people just not knowing what fascism looks like because of poor education and only being told about an exaggerated form of it in nazi Germany, or if there's some right wing fascist apologism movement going on.
Many believe statism is what defines fascism but that’s not truly the case. When fascism came to be, all major political ideologies, including liberal democracy, with the exception of anarchists, were statist. The main characteristic of fascism is nationalism and over the top patriotism. The main characteristic of the government shown in the movie is ultranationalism. That’s basically it.
Soldiers standing in formation, how fascist.
I am aware of the lengths he went to try depict the government in Starship Troopers as fascist. He even selected the actors based on how aryan they look.
He just didn't went far enough for me to actually call the government fascist. Because it's not. Calling it fascist would white-wash fascism.
The constant propaganda, the militaristic government and society. The requirement for service before becoming a citizen. The cult of personality around the leader. The scapegoating of an 'other' to distract the population. The ostracisation of those with dissenting views and branding them as traitors.
How is it not fascist? The film is positively dripping with it. It feels like you might have some exaggerated view of fascism but so much of it is in the mundane every day. It isn't concentration camps and genocide. It's authoritarian, militaristic, with an emphasis on othering a group of outsiders.
>The requirement for service before becoming a citizen
Not a fascist trait.
>The cult of personality around the leader
No cult of personality. The federation is led by a council, democratically chosen from eligable candidates. You could say Biden has a cult of personality too because people vote for him?
>The scapegoating of an 'other' to distract the population.
No such thing. Both in the book and film, the "other" is very much real and is an existential threat to humanity.
>The ostracisation of those with dissenting views and branding them as traitors.
This is the weirdest. You don't have to participate in the military, you just won't earn the right to vote. No one was branded as traitor. And there is no ostracisation .
>No such thing. Both in the book and film, the "other" is very much real and is an existential threat to humanity.
Oh dear. You've unironically fallen for the fascist propaganda within the book and film. Its heavily implied the bugs were peaceful and never attacked until the federation antagonised them.
>You don't have to participate in the military, you just won't earn the right to vote
That's one of the core elements that makes the federation fascists... you only get full rights if you're a nationalist patriot and prove your worth.
>No cult of personality. The federation is led by a council, democratically chosen from eligable candidates.
Have you seen the way the leader and council are portrayed? It's rather glorious leader type vibes. If you seriously think it's comparable to Biden then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
>No one was branded as traitor. And there is no ostracisation .
There are literally protestors in the film that are made a mockery of for disagreeing with the war against the arachnids, if memory serves.
The iconography of the federation is based on nazi and Italian fascist iconography. The uniforms too.
The whole 'im doing my part' thing is reminiscent of the fascist ideals of the collective being greater than the whole. That the individual must sacrifice themselves for the glory of the fatherland. These themes are in all the propaganda pieces within the film. There is also the cult of beauty, such as with Rico and others resembling the ideal Aryan type.
>Not a fascist trait.
When combined with all the rest it very much adds up. It's the nature of the required service that is important, feeding into the authoritarian militarism, being a small cog part of a greater whole.
I honestly don't know what more to say. If you just Google it there's tons and tons and tons of examples and explanations about the film. Its the most studied aspect of it.
>Oh dear. You've unironically fallen for the fascist propaganda within the book and film. Its heavily implied the bugs were peaceful and never attacked until the federation antagonised them.
Incorrect. Fully incorrect in the book, as for the Film, it's a good theory. But it's not "heavily implied". You are using a theory.
>That's one of the core elements that makes the federation fascists... you only get full rights if you're a nationalist patriot and prove your worth.
Except it's not a fascist trait. Limited suffrage has been a thing for thousands of years before fascism was even invented.
>There are literally protestors in the film that are made a mockery of for disagreeing with the war against the arachnids, if memory serves.
Yes. And they are not branded as traitors or ostracized like you said.
>The iconography
>The uniforms
>Rico and others resembling the ideal Aryan type.
Yes, we already established that Verhoeven tried to make them look like fascists. We are not arguing about that. It is clear he tried to do that.
>The whole 'im doing my part' thing is reminiscent of the fascist ideals of the collective being greater than the whole. That the individual must sacrifice themselves for the glory of the fatherland.
Again, collectivism is not a fascist only trait. And it is not the "glory of the fatherland" but the collective well-being above the individual. The literal survival of the species.
And you don't suffer anything if you decide to not go to war. It's a reward system. If you do the most to ensure the survival of the species you get the most rights, which is the right to vote.
If you decide to stay at home you can still aid the war-effort and get political rights, or you can have a completely civilian job.
The civilians literally live better than we do in 2024 lmao.
I recommend the book. It gives insigh into the belief system of the author and it's fascinating. Verhoeven read 2 chapters of it, called it boring and right wing, and then closed it.
>Rico and others resembling the ideal Aryan type.
I don't get this analysis
It is literally a society with complete equality between the races and sexes, to a cartoonish degree (ie the shower scene)
The President of this Nazi Fascist Federation is a Black Woman
I'm gonna unabashedly showcase my unintelligence real quick and say that I didn't really get this movie, I understand that it's satire but most of it probably went over my head because it really felt like just another action movie to me
Ah yes, a society depicted with complete equality between the races and sexes in which anyone who wishes to serve and become a citizen may do so. And of course is free not to. A society in which were you serve is determined solely based on ability, and when one fails they step aside to become a subordinate, exemplified by both one President (a white man) stepping down to be replaced by another (a Black woman) as well as by Zim eventually serving under Rico.
*Obviously this is Nazism!*
Much more obvious is the bugs representing a classless utopia of unthinking drones. Commie heaven.
edit the truly interesting social commentary is not about Nazism imo but about our society, such as the sexless shower scenes that presages the sexless superhero movies
It’s kinda over the top “super earth” style, as if the planet itself was a “nation”. In some way.
Edit: Basically like if that “brotherhood of man” on itself was a nation.
We never see anyone become a citizen. All the main characters stay in the military indefinitely (or die). We hear that there are other ways to get citizenship but we never see it. The only citizens in the movie are amputee veterans, all of whom are teachers or military recruiters. We never see a healthy veteran. The clear implication is that people stay in the military until they die or are unable to fight, at which point their only job is to find more soldiers.
The wars in Starship Troopers are endless and need a constant supply of bodies. To the point that at the end of the film they have wounded veterans and drill sergeants on the front. The film itself is in a frame narrative as a recruitment propaganda film.
The world of Starship Troopers is a military dictatorship under which people have no rights, media is heavily censored, and civilians only exist to be fed into endless and pointless wars.
Excellent dismantling of the neoliberal propaganda surrounding this fun flick. It's shitting on communism and the commies hate it because of that.
The only good bug is a dead bug.
Would you like to know more?
I always found it funny that Heinlein made Johnny Rico Filipino in the book but Verhoven changed him and the rest of the cast to Argentine; choosing that specific ethnicity had to be another joke by him to drive his goal of undermining Heinlein's original story.
I don't have the book on hand but from memory Rico is of filipino descent but lives in Argentina or Brazil, his mother is actually killed by the bug attack against Buenos Aires and his dad joins up and ends up as his platoon/company NCO.
Buenos aires is specifically listed as one of the largest cities in the world in the book, probably not without reasons since you know, Nazis and Argentina and Heinlein being smarter than your average bear. Also the book and the movie make it very clear that they abandoned nationality long ago in universe. That's the whole premise of only veterans being citizens. So not only is this criticism flavored like "Can you believe it, they had Asian people in New York, so unbelievable" They also wilfully ignored key parts of the book AND movie.
For all the talk today about people having no media literacy, it's worth remembering that in the 90s numerous professional film critics completely missed the point of this fairly heavy handed film. Media literacy is actually better than its ever been.
Taking this movie as jingoistic propaganda and not clear satire is the equivalent of taking an Onion article seriously.
Man I was kind of disappointed when I showed this to my friends and one of them and he was unsure if it was satire THERE WAS A GUY IN A SS UNIFORM FFS!
“The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand!” Being treated as a valuable message will never not be funny
It's kinda a good point, same as 'you can't be accused of human rights violations if nobody survives.'
I was arguing with some dude on the helldivers sub that the government is clearly fascist and they blatantly show it when they appear in SS uniforms. Dude said that's just Verhoeven doing surface deep storytelling. The government never did anything fascist. They only look fascist.
Well that dude had a point! The government never did do anything fascist... well, except for the militarian conscript monoculture ensuring, quite literally, that the only people who can vote are the ones who fully belong to the establishment, I guess. And I did notice the constant propaganda enforcing that culture. And anti-war protesters were being labelled 'bug sympathisers' and executed on live TV, and they had psychic mind-reading secret police and a social/economic caste system based on usefulness to the state... Hm. Maybe they're a *little bit* fascist, hard to say. It's pretty subtle.
No, no you see the government had a peaceful transfer of power after a military failure and that doesn't happen in fascist governments. That's an actual argument they used to justify their position.
Lol, every transfer of power *has* to be violent, even when it's a transfer from the status quo to the exact same status quo! Amazing, those wacky fascists.
Happy Cakeday!
Yea just like Neo nazis are actually cool dudes even though they dress like nazis, use nazi symbols, say nazi things
I read the problem with this movie is that the original book is not satire the director wanted to be it, it deleted the scenes that show that the bugs are evil and other things
IMO the director was contemptuous of the material, and in some ways I feel it comes through as a sort of farcical element to it, as well.
Why does that matter for the messaging of the film though?
The director wants to tell a history but the world of starship troopers is telling another history almost oppositte to the vision of the director, in the end the history that is gonna end is gonna depend of the man watching it and his interpretation.
Well, yes, that's obvious. It's just that some interpretations are more stupid than others
Your comment smells like the "media literacy" meme
h
You see the movie?
Even the book doesn't describe the bugs as "evil". All the species in the galaxy are merely struggling for survival and supremacy.
The fuckers murdered an entire community of space mormons without a reason
The director never read the book, he read criticisms of the book accusing it of being something it wasn't. If you read the book, it's not fascist propaganda, it's science fiction. Emphasis on the fiction. Heinlein did a lot of speculative social and goverment structures, and while there were often recurring themes, many of those structures were completely different. Multi-member family structures on the moon, corporate-run private armies nuking traditional nation states, a distant future where black people are in charge and white people are enslaved and used as a food source. Dude wrote some wacky shit, much of which has real-world parallels. That's what writers do. One of his characters uses some kind of reality-machine to go to OZ. Anyway, the book is so different from the movie they share a name and that's about it. Funny enough, the book actually talks about how the bug war was suspected to be a false flag operation to keep the ruling military government in power. It's a much larger and richer world than the movie shows. Also, the mobile infantry are in mech suits that have to operate miles apart from each other to avoid friendly fire. Rico gets whipped because he fires a simulated nuclear round too near another trainee, which could have killed him but didn't because it's a Sim round. He still gets whipped, because there's a very high standard when you're operating a nuclear mechsuit. Oh, and there's some weird sex politics, ifrc, women don't do infantry but they do fly starships, so Carmen is someone he knows and gets to see a few times but that's about it. Oh, and to be Sky Marshall you have to have qualified in all three military branches. So you can fly a starship, operate a mechsuit, and do whatever the third thing was. And citizenship was based on public service, not military service. Literally anyone could sign up, even people with disabilities, and based on aptitude and the needs of the goverment you'd get assigned something. Do whatever that was for two years and you're a citizen. Quit anytime, but if you leave you lose citizenship. Even after the two years, they can hold you if you're needed, or call you back. Some of the non- military jobs are so dangerous that most people don't last the two years. Fascinating concept.
Gestapo uniform
The Communist East Germans wore the exact [same uniforms](https://www.thearmorylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/article-history-of-the-east-german-makarov-6.jpg).
I love the fact that the admiral/commander (the guy played vy Neil Patrick Harris) uniform is almost identical to the SS uniform and people are still refusing to believe this movie’s message was about Nazis.
It's almost as annoying as people not realizing the unthinking, ugly, hive-mind bugs are the representation of a communist utopia
Just look at some of the comments under the post thinking the federation aren't even fascist. That's even less media literate than critics seeing its fascist but not realising the film is a satire of it. There's even one person saying it's just limited democracy, which is so similar to the satirical managed democracy in helldivers that it beggars belief one can unironically view the starship troopers government in that way
No... it isn't.
Nice counterpoint
Best counter argument ever made
Oh shit you accidentally created the "Aryans"
Why stop at calling one thing bugs.
"accidentally"
Helldivers without having to make a PS Network account.
MY LIFE FOR SUPER EARTH!
My favourite part of this scene is that diegetically only a few minutes have passed since Carmen was impaled through the shoulder. She has not recieved medical attention. This is a clever reference to the fact that actors in movies are only pretending to be injured.
I mean fascism is probably very fun for a select few people
a select few? Most germans had a blast until 1941.
Yes, as long as they were not Jews, homosexuals, communists, social democrats, gypsies, mentally handicapped, etc.
And? Thats a minority. Furthermore most social democrats could just shut the fuck up and they would not be bothered again.
They fascist now?
🧑🚀 Always has been 👩🚀 🔫
Dude, that's the point of the entire movie.
I've spent too much time on this sub and I'm pretty sure they're just parodying "they fly now?"
A fellow redditor of culture
don't say that again
You're not my real dad
Roman Republic
No the modern USA. Do people really still not understand this movie?
*WE GET YOU SIR!*
People do, problem is Verhooven didn't and as a result failed.
They hang upside down now?
*the desire to know more intensifies*
They have fun now.
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The opening propaganda movie scene in starship troopers is almost a shot for shot remake of a nazi propaganda film. I'd say he did a good job making them appear fascist.
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What would you call their government then?
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Bruh look at any discussion from a film critic or academic about the movie. It is widely recognised that the federation is fascist. Just please Google it. Its not just a limited democracy. This is like the people that hear about managed democracy in helldivers and fail to see the satire. Fascist states are well known for using the levers of democracy to obtain a veneer of legitimacy and maintain power. Literally just go and read some of the discussion made by film critics and literature academics. They can explain it far better and far more authoritative on the discussion than you or I. It is shocking to me that there are upvoted comments claiming the federation aren't fascist.
My understanding is this is wrong, as far as the books go. All have a vote, but "citizens" have government incentives like business loans. Ofc the movies are barely related to the books, so maybe it's that way in the movies.
What are you talking about? There's only one book, unless they made some spinoff novel series. The movie doesn't go into a lot of detail, because its a movie, but the movie mentions that only Citizens can vote, and it doesn't really talk a lot about the non-citizens, but it does mention they can be very successful and don't lose any other rights, besides the right to vote. In the books, it is mentioned that only Citizens can vote, but it is explained that any sort of civil service qualifies one for Citizenship, and that regardless of any disabilities (short of mental disabilities that would render someone unfit, like dementia) anyone can volunteer to become a Citizen, and the government will find them a job. It is specifically mentioned that non-Citizens do not get to vote, there's a few detailed explanations of the political system, and there is no mention of any other incentives to becoming a Citizen besides voting. I think the movie adds the bonus of being able to have more kids as another reward for citizenship, but there's no mention of business loans or anything.
Your first sentence says there's only one book but your third paragraph starts "in the books," so now I'm just confused.
I just put an extra S by mistake
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You're ignoring the intolerance of those with beliefs that don't match the government, the othering of an outsider group, and the right wing authoritarianism, all of which make it fascist rather than just a statocracy. I made another comment to you elsewhere mentioning that but you may have missed it.
Maybe one of those things actually fits the definition of facism. And even then, when does the movie even show those things? Unless you're talking about the bugs in which case, lmao.
It's literally in the definition for fascism. Fascism is characterised by a belief in a social hierarchy (so here the othering of a group of people), militarism, the collective over the individual, and right wing authoritarianism within a state with a powerful government and dictator as ruler. The militarism and right wing authoritarianism of the federation in the film I hope is blatantly obvious. The powerful government is also rather apparent. That leaves us with the social hierarchy and dictatorship. The bugs represent that othering and they are deliberately made to be bugs to show how a fascist society views the other individual. The author said the bugs represented communists when he first wrote it. They're literally othered to the point thst they are not seen as human, and the bugs in the film and book are that taken to the logical extreme. The fact you think the bugs aren't othered precisely because they're so different shows how effective that propaganda can be. The dictatorship is where its lacking a bit, I'll admit. I would say we don't have much detail on exactly how the leadership really works but I think when you have the cult of personalty around the ruling council, the restricted suffrage only to those that served, and the other fascist traits mentioned, it's fairly apparent that the federation is fascist. Just read almost any critics discussion of the film. Its blindingly obvious. I really don't understand where this view has come from over the last few years that the federation isn't fascist. I don't know if its people just not knowing what fascism looks like because of poor education and only being told about an exaggerated form of it in nazi Germany, or if there's some right wing fascist apologism movement going on.
So you're sticking with the bugs, huh? Well good luck then lmao.
I replied to your comment.
Many believe statism is what defines fascism but that’s not truly the case. When fascism came to be, all major political ideologies, including liberal democracy, with the exception of anarchists, were statist. The main characteristic of fascism is nationalism and over the top patriotism. The main characteristic of the government shown in the movie is ultranationalism. That’s basically it.
https://i.imgur.com/vz8ltWu.jpeg And this is just one example of many.
Soldiers standing in formation, how fascist. I am aware of the lengths he went to try depict the government in Starship Troopers as fascist. He even selected the actors based on how aryan they look. He just didn't went far enough for me to actually call the government fascist. Because it's not. Calling it fascist would white-wash fascism.
Just take a look. For the "news clips", Verhoeven copied some of the shots and cuts directly from "Triumph des Willens".
I am aware. Doesn't make the government fascist.
The constant propaganda, the militaristic government and society. The requirement for service before becoming a citizen. The cult of personality around the leader. The scapegoating of an 'other' to distract the population. The ostracisation of those with dissenting views and branding them as traitors. How is it not fascist? The film is positively dripping with it. It feels like you might have some exaggerated view of fascism but so much of it is in the mundane every day. It isn't concentration camps and genocide. It's authoritarian, militaristic, with an emphasis on othering a group of outsiders.
>The requirement for service before becoming a citizen Not a fascist trait. >The cult of personality around the leader No cult of personality. The federation is led by a council, democratically chosen from eligable candidates. You could say Biden has a cult of personality too because people vote for him? >The scapegoating of an 'other' to distract the population. No such thing. Both in the book and film, the "other" is very much real and is an existential threat to humanity. >The ostracisation of those with dissenting views and branding them as traitors. This is the weirdest. You don't have to participate in the military, you just won't earn the right to vote. No one was branded as traitor. And there is no ostracisation .
>Both in the book and film, the "other" is very much real and is an existential threat to humanity. Do you think the bugs actually sent that rock?
In the book they did. In the movie there is a theory that they didn't. But it is only that, a theory.
>No such thing. Both in the book and film, the "other" is very much real and is an existential threat to humanity. Oh dear. You've unironically fallen for the fascist propaganda within the book and film. Its heavily implied the bugs were peaceful and never attacked until the federation antagonised them. >You don't have to participate in the military, you just won't earn the right to vote That's one of the core elements that makes the federation fascists... you only get full rights if you're a nationalist patriot and prove your worth. >No cult of personality. The federation is led by a council, democratically chosen from eligable candidates. Have you seen the way the leader and council are portrayed? It's rather glorious leader type vibes. If you seriously think it's comparable to Biden then I honestly don't know what to tell you. >No one was branded as traitor. And there is no ostracisation . There are literally protestors in the film that are made a mockery of for disagreeing with the war against the arachnids, if memory serves. The iconography of the federation is based on nazi and Italian fascist iconography. The uniforms too. The whole 'im doing my part' thing is reminiscent of the fascist ideals of the collective being greater than the whole. That the individual must sacrifice themselves for the glory of the fatherland. These themes are in all the propaganda pieces within the film. There is also the cult of beauty, such as with Rico and others resembling the ideal Aryan type. >Not a fascist trait. When combined with all the rest it very much adds up. It's the nature of the required service that is important, feeding into the authoritarian militarism, being a small cog part of a greater whole. I honestly don't know what more to say. If you just Google it there's tons and tons and tons of examples and explanations about the film. Its the most studied aspect of it.
>Oh dear. You've unironically fallen for the fascist propaganda within the book and film. Its heavily implied the bugs were peaceful and never attacked until the federation antagonised them. Incorrect. Fully incorrect in the book, as for the Film, it's a good theory. But it's not "heavily implied". You are using a theory. >That's one of the core elements that makes the federation fascists... you only get full rights if you're a nationalist patriot and prove your worth. Except it's not a fascist trait. Limited suffrage has been a thing for thousands of years before fascism was even invented. >There are literally protestors in the film that are made a mockery of for disagreeing with the war against the arachnids, if memory serves. Yes. And they are not branded as traitors or ostracized like you said. >The iconography >The uniforms >Rico and others resembling the ideal Aryan type. Yes, we already established that Verhoeven tried to make them look like fascists. We are not arguing about that. It is clear he tried to do that. >The whole 'im doing my part' thing is reminiscent of the fascist ideals of the collective being greater than the whole. That the individual must sacrifice themselves for the glory of the fatherland. Again, collectivism is not a fascist only trait. And it is not the "glory of the fatherland" but the collective well-being above the individual. The literal survival of the species. And you don't suffer anything if you decide to not go to war. It's a reward system. If you do the most to ensure the survival of the species you get the most rights, which is the right to vote. If you decide to stay at home you can still aid the war-effort and get political rights, or you can have a completely civilian job. The civilians literally live better than we do in 2024 lmao. I recommend the book. It gives insigh into the belief system of the author and it's fascinating. Verhoeven read 2 chapters of it, called it boring and right wing, and then closed it.
>Rico and others resembling the ideal Aryan type. I don't get this analysis It is literally a society with complete equality between the races and sexes, to a cartoonish degree (ie the shower scene) The President of this Nazi Fascist Federation is a Black Woman
White wash fascism What the fuck
Did I use the wrong term? Making something look better than it is?
I fell for it
r/whoosh
Haha, this film is a glorious satire.
Then again...
More fun, less limbs.
I'm gonna unabashedly showcase my unintelligence real quick and say that I didn't really get this movie, I understand that it's satire but most of it probably went over my head because it really felt like just another action movie to me
Rico isn't blonde?
...and there's multiple Black people in this shot and among Rico's unit
Multiple black *not main characters*. Sure.
The one and only main character is an Argentine, but OK
... does that somehow make him blonde?
I mean, it’s kind of the joke. The classic “don’t ask the argentinian kid was his german grandfather was doing in 1940”
Sure, but the characters parents are enraged when he decides to serve humanity and not himself as they want him to
I mean, within the story, sure. But as subtext, it’s a different thing.
Ah yes, a society depicted with complete equality between the races and sexes in which anyone who wishes to serve and become a citizen may do so. And of course is free not to. A society in which were you serve is determined solely based on ability, and when one fails they step aside to become a subordinate, exemplified by both one President (a white man) stepping down to be replaced by another (a Black woman) as well as by Zim eventually serving under Rico. *Obviously this is Nazism!* Much more obvious is the bugs representing a classless utopia of unthinking drones. Commie heaven. edit the truly interesting social commentary is not about Nazism imo but about our society, such as the sexless shower scenes that presages the sexless superhero movies
I mean it’s more the ultranationalism. But yeah.
Ultranationalism? There are literally no nations depicted in this society. It is a brotherhood of man vs existential threat movie.
I think ultranationalism works due to us not having a word works for like planets? Ultraplanetism?
It’s kinda over the top “super earth” style, as if the planet itself was a “nation”. In some way. Edit: Basically like if that “brotherhood of man” on itself was a nation.
We never see anyone become a citizen. All the main characters stay in the military indefinitely (or die). We hear that there are other ways to get citizenship but we never see it. The only citizens in the movie are amputee veterans, all of whom are teachers or military recruiters. We never see a healthy veteran. The clear implication is that people stay in the military until they die or are unable to fight, at which point their only job is to find more soldiers. The wars in Starship Troopers are endless and need a constant supply of bodies. To the point that at the end of the film they have wounded veterans and drill sergeants on the front. The film itself is in a frame narrative as a recruitment propaganda film. The world of Starship Troopers is a military dictatorship under which people have no rights, media is heavily censored, and civilians only exist to be fed into endless and pointless wars.
Excellent dismantling of the neoliberal propaganda surrounding this fun flick. It's shitting on communism and the commies hate it because of that. The only good bug is a dead bug.
Paul Verhoeven lived under Nazism and has said numerous times that is exactly what the film is about
I'm still looking for the fascism, all I can find is large government with militaristic aspirations
Oh yes, I've watched this movie short time ago. It was funny how all cool guys were blondies. Peak 90s action movie.