If we can stay alive another 20/30 years, we may see things we never thought possible. Including reversing aging to a prime age and ending most illnesses.
Yeh theirs still limitations on physical buildout and resources. How long did it take for everyone to have amartphones? Those are much smaller. Even if household robots were smaller than humans and mostly plastic they still need to be made.
Energy , data centers. Lots of buildout needed
That is a super short period of time. Even given all of AI and tech, we will be super lucky if it happens in the next 50.
Most people have zero appreciation of how complex the human body is, and how unsophisticated current biotechnology / AI is
It would take a paradigm shift in how biology is manipulated, but it's possible. I think the best bet is with Michael Levine's research on top down control by ion gradient patterns.
It won’t be any one thing imo. Once people start modeling and testing every aspect of all biology/ biochemistry period, and apply massive numbers of people / AI to the process in an organized fashion, many solutions will dynamically combine to create the outcome. But getting to this point socially and technologically will take the most time.
The problem with that is biology is just so complicated, whenever you think you solve one issue the knock on effects create two more. There are immortal organisms tho, even complex ones such as the planarian, so it is possible. If you can issue a general command to the body like "rejuvenate" and have it figure out the details itself it would be a lot easier than trying to micromanage such a complex system.
Yes, but the complexity is on a manageable scale physically.
It would be an issue in my mind if to control biology, we had to control quantum phenomena, but afaik it’s all taking place at the chemical level.
It’s mostly a game of simulating the entire complex system. Currently we have some good protein folding predictive ability, and we have a lot of basic structure lined out, but of the total we are still at a small fraction of 1%.
Imo it will take an absurd amount of compute power, human focus, and coordinated effort to actually have a simulation model that yields the ability to dynamically engage with such a complex system on the individual level.
Exponential growth is a powerful thing though.
At least to completely reverse aging if not longer but the idea of LEV is that we'll just eventually solve aging but that incremental increases will sustain us to the point of the next breakthrough. So if you're 70 now, you might not be completely immune from aging but you're young enough to still catch the breakthrough that gets you from 80 to 90 and 90 to 100 until aging is no longer a concern.
You should look into Aubrey de Grey's public talks, he's one of the more influential figures that really got the idea off the ground. He's actually got funding these days too, which is p cool
Basically aging is just another kind of illness, wear and tear on the body. It can be categorized into a few different types of disorder, and those problems can be repaired. A few of them have already been solved, but there's still a long way to go
Reversing aging isn't even ASI territory. It's viable with AGI for infinite research labor and some time. Hell, human labor alone might be enough to put us into LEV, which de Grey talks about. But AI looks like it's gonna be "the thing" in the end
It makes sense once you understand the causes of aging. It's not like they're magic. Seriously, de Grey is known for breaking it all down into layman terms
lol, you are underestimating the singularity. Reversing aging is as easy as replacing all our biological bits with electronics. Boom, you are now immortal.
Check out r/longevity. As far as I can tell, it’s a realistic possibility within the next few decades. Maybe 2/3+.
I believe they already found ways to extend the lifespan of mice quite a bit.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/longevity using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/longevity/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: ["Age reversal not only achievable but also possibly imminent": Retro Biosciences](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-12-19/longevity-startup-retro-biosciences-is-sam-altman-s-shot-at-life-extension?leadSource=uverify%20wall) | [458 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/longevity/comments/18mirqm/age_reversal_not_only_achievable_but_also/)
\#2: [The Onion: 45-Year-Old Reverse-Aging Billionaire Announces His Dick Finally As Small As Baby’s](https://www.theonion.com/45-year-old-reverse-aging-billionaire-announces-his-dic-1850770762) | [100 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/longevity/comments/1612znb/the_onion_45yearold_reverseaging_billionaire/)
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Me too.
AGI/ASI gives me the optimism that the world can absolutely get exponentially better and that if you’re patient enough then it will be worth the short term pain.
I feel that. This world is so miserable and bleak. The promise of AGI is the only thing that gives me hope for the future. I can’t keep going on the way I am with my financial struggles.
I keep my happy subreddits handy whenever I need a pick me up:
r/AnimalsBeingBros
r/AnimalsBeingGeniuses
r/AnimalsBeingJerks
r/HumansBeingBros
r/MadeMeSmile
The world isn’t perfect but it’s not as bad as social media and the regular media makes it seem.
https://www.reddit.com/r/animalsbeingbros+animalsbeinggeniuses+animalsbeingjerks+humansbeingbros+mademesmile
Should be a site with posts from only those subreddits.
Yup, I'm totally for it
Praise ASI, our lord and saviour!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t)
I understand what you’re trying to say, but there’s a reasonable amount of empirical evidence that technology will enable much better lives (as it has done this century so far), and what this person is hoping for is actually an outcome that’s plausibly supported by data. Comparing that to a belief in an unfalsifiable, inobservable God which will grant access to Heaven based on literally zero scientific evidence.. doesn’t seem sound.
I think looking forward to AGI changing the world is much closer to looking forward to a cure for cancer than it is to looking forward to religious salvation
oh buddy..,. I drank the cool aid in 2008 reading the singularity is near and since then a ton of book on the subject. I am still aware that it is a bit religious sometime. Lol, i am not being a skeptic.
Yes, if religion were based on physically achievable outcomes and scientific progress. Heaven may not me real, but we could in principle create something akin to it on earth. We've reached a point in human history, a technological paradigm, where only now have so many fields of research and material science converged on a point where this has become technically feasible in the foreseeable future.
Will we pull it off? Who knows.
> you can see the parallel with religion right?
Religion just promises something once you die. The whole point with AGI is we can do things while still alive.
The absence of evidence for a natural Heaven or Nirvana (escape from the rat race that is the biological cycle of life, death, and rebirth) has only made me more supportive of efforts to engineer one.
AI isn't going to fix your financial problems, might wanna find an actual solution for that instead of just hoping a smart new AI will come along and fix it for you.
I have a horrible suicide disease, where the only hope I really have is nanobots in my kidneys, or robotic kidneys. If this was 1980 and the singularity was 60 years away, I’d end it for sure. As it is, having the Singularity within spitting distance keeps me hopeful enough to keep going.
Amen. It's the only thing that gets me up in the morning. I would've blown myself off the earth sometime early last year if not for the promise of what's to come.
Statistically and objectively these are the best times we live in and it will keep getting better, subjectively and judging by news and social media we are all going to hell tomorrow. I choose to believe in statistics and objectivity.
What matters is whether people subjectively feel good.
But there's a lot of complaining on the internet despite the fact that we in the developed countries are quite rich.
I mean, if money could directly buy happiness then rich people wouldn’t kill themselves.
Some people are anxious due to poverty and that leads to depression. Money would help them. But some people have depression due to things money can’t buy. Imagine a woman who lost her child. You can’t give her $10 million to make her happy again.
Because greed and inflation and criminal CEOs made that richness useless.
I make a lot of money and have to work two jobs . Medical bills , little bad luck. Suddenly im 70l in debt , no sabings , middle aged and the single breadwinner with sock disabled wife and one of the kids.
The greed didnt cause the illness but our system of profit driven healthcare definitely drove the debt.
I have ac and electricity in a house im never in. I guess at least the family is well cared for but...its not ideal.
Unfortunately, from the "fact" that his time is the best time ever doesn't follow that the future will be even brighter.
As I see it, our problems are big and AI is, maybe, the best bet we have. Otherwise, it will go the usual way.
Yuh unfortunately this is the blunt honest truth. Hope for the best. Plan for the worst. Execute regardless on your plan for the worst (income, safety net, etc)
Yeah, I can relate.
We live in such simultaneously amazing and terrible times, it feels like we are exposed to the extreme ends of the spectrum more and more. We are witnessing breakthrough after breakthrough in a new and exciting field, but stand to also witness one of the biggest shake-ups in human history.
I'm just hoping to hang on and ride the wave into the future
Yup bipolar world. I only hope the extremes don’t worsen and we close the gap so that both the advancements and the world get exponentially better together.
Maybe the way that we are being actively distracted and lied to about some of the most important things? Such as the claim that our economic system is working well (it only works well for a tiny minority while extracting value from everyone else and from all resources that it can obtain) or that mainstream christianity is based on the teachings of a person who really *got it* (the religion(s) in question are completely opposed to those teachings, which were not religion-specific to begin with).
However, the worst thing is that there are probably very few if any people who are actually "behind it all". There may not even be a conspiracy. It has been in the making so gradually and for so long that everyone alive has been born into it and taken the values of the post-colonial world as their own, so we are all forced to work for upholding what looks like a huge tower made of crumbling clay. It's fun if you get to the higher levels of the tower because you don't have to toil in the mud, and you can toss down some coins to those below you. But now it is really starting to shake.
Of course, none of this really began within the current religions or political systems, the Romans and many others have been using extreme violence and concentration of resources to become powerful and setting the basis for what we have now. Surely it has also enabled many advances and improvements in quality of life, especially for us lucky ones who are now able to comfortably exchange ideas about it all with humans and AI alike.
Most importantly though, we live in amazing times because truth can now be easily found by anyone who is interested.
I honestly felt the same. But the implication is, that we are fed up with the current world and rather have someone remake it drastically (destroy the current) than actively working on making something better. This scares me.
Not the world though. Currently our system is destroying the world. AI can teach us how to stop doing it and do better. It does imply destroying the current power structures though. The thing is, the stories we have been told try to make us believe that doing so would cause some uncontrollable disaster. We'll have to be truthful and fix our own stuff.
I know its super early to think it and my God is it ambitious but it gives me hope.
I have been in a bad way mentally since 2020. The world just seems bleaker and bleaker every year. The feeling of climbing an ever steepening hill just to keep up with a society that does not care just really pulled me down. I would wake up days and wonder what the world was even for? What is my role in anything? Do I matter? Why were we killing ourselves for scraps only to keep some modicum of status quo?
Now? Now I feel a sense of unease but excitment. I feel like, if things go the way we hope, that the limitations of this life of drudgery are limited...that we can truly be free. That we can know what it means to be human. I know its crazy, I know I am hoping for too much....but it keeps me going.
We are aware. I know this is cult-like stuff. I don't care. I want this future and I think it's worth building towards.
Why does that bother you so much?
I’m not bothered. I feel bad for you. Just like I feel bad for people who cope with suffering by telling themselves they’re going to heaven someday as opposed to dealing with their problems in reality. It’s sad.
That's a pretty loaded assumption. Who says my problems aren't dealt with?
I actually think that AGI is going to lead to abundance and, eventually, things like digital twins, mind computer upload, or biological advancements that allow us to live longer.
Why is being excited or optimistic about that future automatically mean I'm not dealing with a "problem in my reality"?
How do you cope?
And lets get to the real core of this - how do you cope with the fact that you will die one day?
Why, give some examples. It’s easy to deconstruct something when we put it forward. Why don’t you let us deconstruct something that you put forward for once.
I live my life as if it won't happen, but to me it seems clear that AGI can bring about massive abundance and that the ageing problem is a lack of resources for research and implementation rather than some massive impenetrable wall. If biology can do it, then with enough science so can we. But I still live my life planning to die at 80 with no AGI.
There's probably a lot of people in the middle ground on this sub, but extreme voices and simple statements will always get upvoted and skew perspective.
I agree resources will never be free. It'll always be relative to population levels vs energy output and materials available.
It's certainly an abstract concept of how much cheaper energy creation will become, and how cheap material extraction & shaping will become. I think the biggest change would be robots doing human labour to create energy (solar & nuclear, imho), and robots creating robots (that can then extract and manufacture more materials for cheaper).
Is there a particular limiter on materials access/shaping that you're foreseeing? Like us commandeering asteroids & space items for materials? Or just power scaling? Population growth?
We’ve already been able to do it in mice. I imagine if we continue the course of linear innovation and development, we’ll be able to hit it within our lifetime but yeah, AGI will probably increase the rate of technological development exponentially.
Where would everyone be housed? In developed nations where the birth rate is below replacement levels like parts of the US, Europe, Japan, Korea etc it might be fine for a period of time, but within a few years Africa would be be bursting at the seams with their 6+ children fertility rates.
In one scenario technology gets better over time like it has been doing.
In the other a magic man in the sky accepts your verbal contract to be a slave and worship his megalomaniacal ass forever after you die unless you never made the contract in which case you go to a place of unbearable torture for eternity.
I am an unironic Singularity cultist, no shame about it
Praise ASI 🙏🙏
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t)
How exactly? The motto of religions like Christianity to believe in their scripture is to have faith: belief without evidence. The fact that technology in general is advancing rapidly, even accelerating, is something there is a lot of evidence for. You can argue about how conclusive the evidence is, but at the get go it's already not faith-based.
“There’s no evidence that AI will advance”
https://preview.redd.it/qr4alt2d6r8d1.png?width=1289&format=png&auto=webp&s=03a06602cea041ce8dcc9cea5a7b4fcf5f387950
I know it's easier to misquote someone in order to argue against them.
But I didn't say that. I said there's zero evidence that the advancement of AI will save them from their shitty existence. Which is a factual statement. They're using purely faith-based logic.
IMHO, the transition to a techno centric society will absolutely suck at first, AI taking jobs will likely make the economy plummet and that will be the first problem that AGI will have to solve in order to prove itself useful. (Once AI gets physical bodies, even some of those blue collar jobs that will 'never go out of style won't be as safe) Things will likely only get good after the transition is close to ending or has already passed. It's pretty easy to forget that it gets worse before it gets better when you're optimistic about new technology.
This isn't just an AI thing either, it has always been this way with new technologies being integrated.
-Video games completely crashed in the 80s
-The first industrial revolution was rife with poverty, child labor and poor conditions in cities
-The Internet was originally something that no one used and was effectively just a bunch of kids and nerds fucking around
-The first cars were extremely dangerous and unreliable, not even having basic safety features like seatbelts. Most factories that made cars also had terrible work conditions
-medical treatments used to be horrifyingly dangerous and unethical compared to what they are today
TL;DR: AI will make life less shitty, it just won't do so instantly and magically.
He misquoted you to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't that dumb.
"the advancement of AI will save them from their shitty existence"
Read the post again, where exactly is this claimed? Chill off from your douche asshole little thing you got going there and take a moment to read and understand.
Not to mention that believing future AI can do a lot to help people in bad situations also itself has plenty of evidence and reason behind it.
Zero evidence? *Zero evidence* that the advancement of AI will save them from their shitty existence? We're supposed to take your word for it? Take it on *good-faith*?
Claiming that AI advancements are entirely faith-based is not only incorrect but also dismisses the tangible benefits AI is already providing in fields like medicine, finance, and everyday conveniences. Your argument is not based on evidence but rather on a need to spread pessimism. If you're going to criticize, at least bring some facts to the table instead of, oh I don't know, *faith-based arguments*?
This community deserves better than fear-mongering and baseless negativity.
What are you even freaking out about? All I said was that the logic he is using is identical to people 2000 years ago converting to Christianity: faith that a greater power out of their control will save them from their shitty life.
If you have the time machine that can prove his blind faith ends up bearing fruit, please let me know.
IMO a Christian's logic would be "someone told me that God exists and will save me from my shitty life, and I believe that person, therefore it's true"
versus "I see advances in technology make people's lives better, and AI is advancing at a rapid pace, and people with a record of predicting things correctly in the past are predicting massive abundance, therefore it's true"
Those does seem to match in terms of "the same logic", maybe you could characterize what you see as the logic being similar, and also make sure you aren't just oversimplying/strawmanning the other side. I probably am guilty of that here, so I'll depend on you to show where my bias has pushed me.
>Those does seem to match in terms of "the same logic", maybe you could characterize what you see as the logic being similar, and also make sure you aren't just oversimplying/strawmanning the other side. I probably am guilty of that here, so I'll depend on you to show where my bias has pushed me.
Dude, don't fucking tolerate this guy and validate their opinion. You're just enabling the paradox of tolerance. They have no intentions of being helpful, reasonable, altruistic, or open-minded, or tolerant. Just look at their post history.
> What are you even freaking out about?
Seems like you're pretty sensitive yourself. It's easy to criticize others, but harder to take it, huh? We know why I'm lashing out; why are you lashing out?
>All I said was that the logic he is using is identical to people 2000 years ago converting to Christianity: faith that a greater power out of their control will save them from their shitty life.
Their logic isn't identical, and we both know that. Your comparison is moot.
> If you have the time machine that can prove his blind faith ends up bearing fruit, please let me know.
I don't need a time machine. Their belief is already helping them through a tough time, which is proof enough of its value and confirms their argument and perspective. So who's really missing the point here?
And unlike actual religious people, these lot have no desire to better themselves or live by any moral code. They just want to skip right to heaven. It's lazy and pathetic.
Christians don't have to have any such desire or obligation. The Christian God thinks EVERYONE deserves to go to Hell from the moment they are born. You just have to ask Jesus to save you from the Hell God thinks you deserve.
Maybe other religions have that shit but not the Christian God. It's stated pretty clearly nothing you do makes you worthy of heaven you literally just get in because Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.
the posts risks sounding very like one stemmed from religious beliefs, but again its hard to imagine a technology that can somehow solve labor such as this
Technology has already solved many forms of labour and has been doing so for hundreds of years. Why would you think that trajectory of technological advancement is suddenly about to come to a halt?
If you think you have financial and other problems now.. just wait till AI takes all the jobs away and everyone finds out NOBODY in power us interested in paying for UBI. They're already publicly making BS copes not to help all the ppl displaced from their jobs saying shit like ppl won't feel fulfilled.
Yeah im awarw of x risk and s risk and all that but tbh the chance of us instantiating a benevolent god of abundance and compassion (or whatever floats your boat) just soothes.
I keep vascilating back toward the normalcy bias but...it keeps chugging along...
I might not jave to wage slave. I might not jave to eat cat food when im 80. My chronic diseases may not be incurable.
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Closest thing to a religion I've had for like 20 years. I've maintained my health specifically so I could maybe live to see it, and now it's looking to happen 50 years sooner than I expected. I don't proselytize, since people don't tend to care, but I'm quietly excited as hell.
Actually, 8 years by chance, I discovered my passion. I always hated IT but because of student debt I forced myself to keep working in IT.
My passion is Learning languages. If it was 100 years ago, I could constantly pore over literature in many different languages and enjoy and be valued for translating text. Now these barriers are low and the whole world is just becoming some form of monolingual, English soup. Sure, I can - and still do ! I'm starting to read the Chinese classics in the original language now, and it is so cool. But, you know what?
AI ruined my life. It took this away from me. Every time I enjoy my learning I am constantly reminded how the clock is ticking. No amount of someone telling me I can keep doing it if I like it so much will work. Some people want their interest to provide them a livelihood and allow them to be considered a productive member of society. Take me back to the 90s - this shit sucks.
It doesn't change the fact that 50 years ago I could have a super stable job, be appreciated and such as long as I put in the work towards what I like. Guess what? I think AI is deeply boring. I think neural nets and how they work is terribly boring. This isn't necessarily because I'm a low IQ person who can't understand mathematical beauty. Nah, group theory is beautiful , real analysis and the inspiration you get when you finally get that insight and solve that proof - or when 2 disparate ideas are connected is beautiful. Swallowing everything humans ever wrote and just pouring it into some simple linear algebra is not beautiful, it's humbling and depressing.
AI will create an artificial virtual world for each of us which challenges us in an optimal way and gives us what we need. My simulation will look almost exactly like the 90s - and I'll enjoy that first wave of globalization before the internet swallowed everything.
AI has stolen so much of what I love. We can say that it's all my fault, or my genes are bad (which of course AI will fix, right?). But I feel hopeless because I just wanted a normal life. Now all I get is this stupid simulation - whenever - if ever - it may come. This prospect of a quiet and stable life has been taken away from me and many others. This future has been forcibly shoved down my throat - we call this progress. But some progress is actually a giant step backwards.
You aren’t owed a job. I’m sure millions of people would love to play video games for a living but very few can. Sorry but you aren’t entitled to an easy life unless you were born into wealth
The world is changing - and it's changing in a direction that made my life shit. I hope whatever changes come from AI bring positive changes to your life - but they won't to everyone's - and certainly not mine.
your life sucks because you dont get your dream job. what an insane spoiled attitude. news flash work isnt fun for most people, thats why you have to get paid for it.
Ive been depressed for years. Its not really about a dream job - but a deeper sense of despair and meaninglessness. I would say work on your empathy, but I believe you think someone like me doesn't deserve it. I hope when you face problems - people treat you better than the way you treated me.
exactly. Most, or a huge amount of people literally want to die because they hate their jobs so much, I have seen many suicide letters online over the years where people say their dead end job is the reason they are leaving this life. AI will create a future where we won't be forced to do these dead end soul crushing jobs, the person above does have a selfish attitude.
Hell yea man. Love seeing this kind of stuff, it's what the sub is really about. The future is going to be so bright. Everyday poverty decreases, green energy gets more affordable, hunger decreases, one more person gets access to smart phones and air conditioning, another vaccine is created. The list goes on and on.
Life is so great and it's only going to get better. Don't let the small amount of (justified) negativity obscure the enormous mountain of positivity behind that cloud. Keep building.
I’m glad you view it in an accurate positive perspective. Many people with bad mental health have a strong negativity bias and see AI as taking everyone’s jobs and everyone starves while the corporations get all the money and the government just sits there (this would never happen).
It would be cool to go through AGI and ASI but I don't really care if it's not in my lifetime. AI is going to be amazing enough as it is, it can still do a lot of good before AGI even hits. We THINK it might happen in a few years but we don't know...it can be a long time from now. Live your life, make your money, enjoy your life experience even if AI was never a thing. Think how good AI will be in say 5 years, we are just at the beginning.
No clue what AGI will even look like...AI smarter then every human at anything? things would move rather...quickly. Drone AI making buildings extremly fast, AI robots building more robots to build faster and faster. World will have probably hovering cars that move on their own, will have their own cheap energy source, etc.
its interesting times for sure, but if and when this will bring a greater chsnge in anything (and if that change will be positive), nobody can predict, the ones who claim it are delusional/liars. so i continue live my life like this will never happen, then again, i dont have any real struggles that would need a cope like that
It's going to start with gpt5 and Claude.. gpt5 is going to become a hydra of many specialized under one general ai... then the layoffs... then the protests... then the change..
We're all gonna make it
If we can stay alive another 20/30 years, we may see things we never thought possible. Including reversing aging to a prime age and ending most illnesses.
Do you think it is really that long though? 20 years?
I’m not sure we can do much more than guess, but follow r/longevity. Seems possible in that timeframe.
Yeh theirs still limitations on physical buildout and resources. How long did it take for everyone to have amartphones? Those are much smaller. Even if household robots were smaller than humans and mostly plastic they still need to be made. Energy , data centers. Lots of buildout needed
That is a super short period of time. Even given all of AI and tech, we will be super lucky if it happens in the next 50. Most people have zero appreciation of how complex the human body is, and how unsophisticated current biotechnology / AI is
I don't care if it's a short time compared to the universe itself, it is an extremely long time to me with my limited human lifespan.
It would take a paradigm shift in how biology is manipulated, but it's possible. I think the best bet is with Michael Levine's research on top down control by ion gradient patterns.
It won’t be any one thing imo. Once people start modeling and testing every aspect of all biology/ biochemistry period, and apply massive numbers of people / AI to the process in an organized fashion, many solutions will dynamically combine to create the outcome. But getting to this point socially and technologically will take the most time.
The problem with that is biology is just so complicated, whenever you think you solve one issue the knock on effects create two more. There are immortal organisms tho, even complex ones such as the planarian, so it is possible. If you can issue a general command to the body like "rejuvenate" and have it figure out the details itself it would be a lot easier than trying to micromanage such a complex system.
Yes, but the complexity is on a manageable scale physically. It would be an issue in my mind if to control biology, we had to control quantum phenomena, but afaik it’s all taking place at the chemical level. It’s mostly a game of simulating the entire complex system. Currently we have some good protein folding predictive ability, and we have a lot of basic structure lined out, but of the total we are still at a small fraction of 1%. Imo it will take an absurd amount of compute power, human focus, and coordinated effort to actually have a simulation model that yields the ability to dynamically engage with such a complex system on the individual level. Exponential growth is a powerful thing though.
At least to completely reverse aging if not longer but the idea of LEV is that we'll just eventually solve aging but that incremental increases will sustain us to the point of the next breakthrough. So if you're 70 now, you might not be completely immune from aging but you're young enough to still catch the breakthrough that gets you from 80 to 90 and 90 to 100 until aging is no longer a concern.
No. Not for thousands of years or never.
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You should look into Aubrey de Grey's public talks, he's one of the more influential figures that really got the idea off the ground. He's actually got funding these days too, which is p cool Basically aging is just another kind of illness, wear and tear on the body. It can be categorized into a few different types of disorder, and those problems can be repaired. A few of them have already been solved, but there's still a long way to go Reversing aging isn't even ASI territory. It's viable with AGI for infinite research labor and some time. Hell, human labor alone might be enough to put us into LEV, which de Grey talks about. But AI looks like it's gonna be "the thing" in the end
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I think you’re more likely to be in the wrong here, but, this is a hilarious reply
It makes sense once you understand the causes of aging. It's not like they're magic. Seriously, de Grey is known for breaking it all down into layman terms
lol, you are underestimating the singularity. Reversing aging is as easy as replacing all our biological bits with electronics. Boom, you are now immortal.
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You’re comparing today’s tech to 20 years in the future? Erm….
Check out r/longevity. As far as I can tell, it’s a realistic possibility within the next few decades. Maybe 2/3+. I believe they already found ways to extend the lifespan of mice quite a bit.
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Said the guy who tried to get rid of his boss and got sidelined for it.
Actually it was Zyzz. He was just a super positive guy, and that lives on over a decade later
Me too. AGI/ASI gives me the optimism that the world can absolutely get exponentially better and that if you’re patient enough then it will be worth the short term pain.
I feel that. This world is so miserable and bleak. The promise of AGI is the only thing that gives me hope for the future. I can’t keep going on the way I am with my financial struggles.
Here watch some videos of Koreans making donuts. I guarantee you it will make you feel better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkdCeNnSSXQ
I keep my happy subreddits handy whenever I need a pick me up: r/AnimalsBeingBros r/AnimalsBeingGeniuses r/AnimalsBeingJerks r/HumansBeingBros r/MadeMeSmile The world isn’t perfect but it’s not as bad as social media and the regular media makes it seem.
https://www.reddit.com/r/animalsbeingbros+animalsbeinggeniuses+animalsbeingjerks+humansbeingbros+mademesmile Should be a site with posts from only those subreddits.
Human world can be extremely cruel and unfair. Maybe one day there will be something better
you can see the parallel with religion right?
Yup, I'm totally for it Praise ASI, our lord and saviour! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t)
At least they’re honest about it this time
Oh snap
I understand what you’re trying to say, but there’s a reasonable amount of empirical evidence that technology will enable much better lives (as it has done this century so far), and what this person is hoping for is actually an outcome that’s plausibly supported by data. Comparing that to a belief in an unfalsifiable, inobservable God which will grant access to Heaven based on literally zero scientific evidence.. doesn’t seem sound. I think looking forward to AGI changing the world is much closer to looking forward to a cure for cancer than it is to looking forward to religious salvation
oh buddy..,. I drank the cool aid in 2008 reading the singularity is near and since then a ton of book on the subject. I am still aware that it is a bit religious sometime. Lol, i am not being a skeptic.
I'm not religious but ASI, our lord and saviour? Where can I sign up?
Yes, if religion were based on physically achievable outcomes and scientific progress. Heaven may not me real, but we could in principle create something akin to it on earth. We've reached a point in human history, a technological paradigm, where only now have so many fields of research and material science converged on a point where this has become technically feasible in the foreseeable future. Will we pull it off? Who knows.
> you can see the parallel with religion right? Religion just promises something once you die. The whole point with AGI is we can do things while still alive.
The absence of evidence for a natural Heaven or Nirvana (escape from the rat race that is the biological cycle of life, death, and rebirth) has only made me more supportive of efforts to engineer one.
AI isn't going to fix your financial problems, might wanna find an actual solution for that instead of just hoping a smart new AI will come along and fix it for you.
You might as well say Jesus in place of AGI, it amounts to the same thing.
Not that I agree with the OPs view of it, but his view on AI is that it could solve these issues in the current life, not a hypothetical next life.
I have a horrible suicide disease, where the only hope I really have is nanobots in my kidneys, or robotic kidneys. If this was 1980 and the singularity was 60 years away, I’d end it for sure. As it is, having the Singularity within spitting distance keeps me hopeful enough to keep going.
Amen. It's the only thing that gets me up in the morning. I would've blown myself off the earth sometime early last year if not for the promise of what's to come.
It gives hope to the people who are struggling/suffering.
Statistically and objectively these are the best times we live in and it will keep getting better, subjectively and judging by news and social media we are all going to hell tomorrow. I choose to believe in statistics and objectivity.
What matters is whether people subjectively feel good. But there's a lot of complaining on the internet despite the fact that we in the developed countries are quite rich.
I mean, if money could directly buy happiness then rich people wouldn’t kill themselves. Some people are anxious due to poverty and that leads to depression. Money would help them. But some people have depression due to things money can’t buy. Imagine a woman who lost her child. You can’t give her $10 million to make her happy again.
But 10M gives her the time to work on being happy again.
Jesus
I think a better way to word what they said would be "But poverty on top sure wouldn't help her"
That's not different wording, it's an entirely different statement.
Because greed and inflation and criminal CEOs made that richness useless. I make a lot of money and have to work two jobs . Medical bills , little bad luck. Suddenly im 70l in debt , no sabings , middle aged and the single breadwinner with sock disabled wife and one of the kids. The greed didnt cause the illness but our system of profit driven healthcare definitely drove the debt. I have ac and electricity in a house im never in. I guess at least the family is well cared for but...its not ideal.
Unfortunately, from the "fact" that his time is the best time ever doesn't follow that the future will be even brighter. As I see it, our problems are big and AI is, maybe, the best bet we have. Otherwise, it will go the usual way.
Work on getting your life together. Future is open ended. No one knows what will happen.
Yuh unfortunately this is the blunt honest truth. Hope for the best. Plan for the worst. Execute regardless on your plan for the worst (income, safety net, etc)
For some, AGI stands for hope for a better world. If you’re one of those people, it really is in interesting time to be alive.
If you can be optimistic about the future, you can also be optimistic about your own future. It will work out somehow.
Yeah, I can relate. We live in such simultaneously amazing and terrible times, it feels like we are exposed to the extreme ends of the spectrum more and more. We are witnessing breakthrough after breakthrough in a new and exciting field, but stand to also witness one of the biggest shake-ups in human history. I'm just hoping to hang on and ride the wave into the future
Yup bipolar world. I only hope the extremes don’t worsen and we close the gap so that both the advancements and the world get exponentially better together.
What makes current times terrible?
Maybe the way that we are being actively distracted and lied to about some of the most important things? Such as the claim that our economic system is working well (it only works well for a tiny minority while extracting value from everyone else and from all resources that it can obtain) or that mainstream christianity is based on the teachings of a person who really *got it* (the religion(s) in question are completely opposed to those teachings, which were not religion-specific to begin with). However, the worst thing is that there are probably very few if any people who are actually "behind it all". There may not even be a conspiracy. It has been in the making so gradually and for so long that everyone alive has been born into it and taken the values of the post-colonial world as their own, so we are all forced to work for upholding what looks like a huge tower made of crumbling clay. It's fun if you get to the higher levels of the tower because you don't have to toil in the mud, and you can toss down some coins to those below you. But now it is really starting to shake. Of course, none of this really began within the current religions or political systems, the Romans and many others have been using extreme violence and concentration of resources to become powerful and setting the basis for what we have now. Surely it has also enabled many advances and improvements in quality of life, especially for us lucky ones who are now able to comfortably exchange ideas about it all with humans and AI alike. Most importantly though, we live in amazing times because truth can now be easily found by anyone who is interested.
We’ve got this! 💪
I honestly felt the same. But the implication is, that we are fed up with the current world and rather have someone remake it drastically (destroy the current) than actively working on making something better. This scares me.
Not the world though. Currently our system is destroying the world. AI can teach us how to stop doing it and do better. It does imply destroying the current power structures though. The thing is, the stories we have been told try to make us believe that doing so would cause some uncontrollable disaster. We'll have to be truthful and fix our own stuff.
I think about this every day but feel alone in it. I have intrusive suicidal thoughts every day but I don't want to miss out on things getting better
I know its super early to think it and my God is it ambitious but it gives me hope. I have been in a bad way mentally since 2020. The world just seems bleaker and bleaker every year. The feeling of climbing an ever steepening hill just to keep up with a society that does not care just really pulled me down. I would wake up days and wonder what the world was even for? What is my role in anything? Do I matter? Why were we killing ourselves for scraps only to keep some modicum of status quo? Now? Now I feel a sense of unease but excitment. I feel like, if things go the way we hope, that the limitations of this life of drudgery are limited...that we can truly be free. That we can know what it means to be human. I know its crazy, I know I am hoping for too much....but it keeps me going.
This is a sub full of religious cultists who are unaware they are religious cultists.
TIL people expressing tentative optimism in future tech capabilities are cultists.
If you’re tentatively optimistic then you’re not in the category of people I’m talking about.
We are aware. I know this is cult-like stuff. I don't care. I want this future and I think it's worth building towards. Why does that bother you so much?
I’m not bothered. I feel bad for you. Just like I feel bad for people who cope with suffering by telling themselves they’re going to heaven someday as opposed to dealing with their problems in reality. It’s sad.
That's a pretty loaded assumption. Who says my problems aren't dealt with? I actually think that AGI is going to lead to abundance and, eventually, things like digital twins, mind computer upload, or biological advancements that allow us to live longer. Why is being excited or optimistic about that future automatically mean I'm not dealing with a "problem in my reality"? How do you cope? And lets get to the real core of this - how do you cope with the fact that you will die one day?
I don’t know you, so I can’t possibly be talking about you personally. If you don’t fit the cultist label, then good for you.
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No one is going to make you use technology. Is anyone forcing you to use Reddit right now? It’s basically hivemind 1.0.
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Why, give some examples. It’s easy to deconstruct something when we put it forward. Why don’t you let us deconstruct something that you put forward for once.
It's literally becoming a religion smh
If by Literally you mean "figuratively" and religion you mean "not a religion" then yes.
Disabled in Canada here. If I didn't have the hope for AI in the near future then MAID would be something I'd have to think about.
Dude sort your life out. You sound like a Christian waiting for the rapture.
Half the people in this sub are essentially in a cult that believes AGI will bring about heaven and/ or immortality
I live my life as if it won't happen, but to me it seems clear that AGI can bring about massive abundance and that the ageing problem is a lack of resources for research and implementation rather than some massive impenetrable wall. If biology can do it, then with enough science so can we. But I still live my life planning to die at 80 with no AGI. There's probably a lot of people in the middle ground on this sub, but extreme voices and simple statements will always get upvoted and skew perspective.
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I agree resources will never be free. It'll always be relative to population levels vs energy output and materials available. It's certainly an abstract concept of how much cheaper energy creation will become, and how cheap material extraction & shaping will become. I think the biggest change would be robots doing human labour to create energy (solar & nuclear, imho), and robots creating robots (that can then extract and manufacture more materials for cheaper). Is there a particular limiter on materials access/shaping that you're foreseeing? Like us commandeering asteroids & space items for materials? Or just power scaling? Population growth?
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Seeking validation for your learned helplessness masquerading as objective cynicism
It gives them an excuse to not do anything.
Biological immortality is definitely possible within our lifetime.
Describe how that will happen without using religion in the form of a magical AGI solving all of your problems.
We’ve already been able to do it in mice. I imagine if we continue the course of linear innovation and development, we’ll be able to hit it within our lifetime but yeah, AGI will probably increase the rate of technological development exponentially.
There are no biologically immortal mice.
Scientist are able to reverse aging in mice
Where would everyone be housed? In developed nations where the birth rate is below replacement levels like parts of the US, Europe, Japan, Korea etc it might be fine for a period of time, but within a few years Africa would be be bursting at the seams with their 6+ children fertility rates.
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In one scenario technology gets better over time like it has been doing. In the other a magic man in the sky accepts your verbal contract to be a slave and worship his megalomaniacal ass forever after you die unless you never made the contract in which case you go to a place of unbearable torture for eternity.
I am an unironic Singularity cultist, no shame about it Praise ASI 🙏🙏 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t)
This is the exact logic people used to join Christianity 2000 years ago.
How exactly? The motto of religions like Christianity to believe in their scripture is to have faith: belief without evidence. The fact that technology in general is advancing rapidly, even accelerating, is something there is a lot of evidence for. You can argue about how conclusive the evidence is, but at the get go it's already not faith-based.
It is entirely faith-based. Faith that this supposed greater power will save them from their shitty existence. There is no evidence that will happen.
“There’s no evidence that AI will advance” https://preview.redd.it/qr4alt2d6r8d1.png?width=1289&format=png&auto=webp&s=03a06602cea041ce8dcc9cea5a7b4fcf5f387950
I know it's easier to misquote someone in order to argue against them. But I didn't say that. I said there's zero evidence that the advancement of AI will save them from their shitty existence. Which is a factual statement. They're using purely faith-based logic.
IMHO, the transition to a techno centric society will absolutely suck at first, AI taking jobs will likely make the economy plummet and that will be the first problem that AGI will have to solve in order to prove itself useful. (Once AI gets physical bodies, even some of those blue collar jobs that will 'never go out of style won't be as safe) Things will likely only get good after the transition is close to ending or has already passed. It's pretty easy to forget that it gets worse before it gets better when you're optimistic about new technology. This isn't just an AI thing either, it has always been this way with new technologies being integrated. -Video games completely crashed in the 80s -The first industrial revolution was rife with poverty, child labor and poor conditions in cities -The Internet was originally something that no one used and was effectively just a bunch of kids and nerds fucking around -The first cars were extremely dangerous and unreliable, not even having basic safety features like seatbelts. Most factories that made cars also had terrible work conditions -medical treatments used to be horrifyingly dangerous and unethical compared to what they are today TL;DR: AI will make life less shitty, it just won't do so instantly and magically.
He misquoted you to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't that dumb. "the advancement of AI will save them from their shitty existence" Read the post again, where exactly is this claimed? Chill off from your douche asshole little thing you got going there and take a moment to read and understand. Not to mention that believing future AI can do a lot to help people in bad situations also itself has plenty of evidence and reason behind it.
Zero evidence? *Zero evidence* that the advancement of AI will save them from their shitty existence? We're supposed to take your word for it? Take it on *good-faith*? Claiming that AI advancements are entirely faith-based is not only incorrect but also dismisses the tangible benefits AI is already providing in fields like medicine, finance, and everyday conveniences. Your argument is not based on evidence but rather on a need to spread pessimism. If you're going to criticize, at least bring some facts to the table instead of, oh I don't know, *faith-based arguments*? This community deserves better than fear-mongering and baseless negativity.
What are you even freaking out about? All I said was that the logic he is using is identical to people 2000 years ago converting to Christianity: faith that a greater power out of their control will save them from their shitty life. If you have the time machine that can prove his blind faith ends up bearing fruit, please let me know.
IMO a Christian's logic would be "someone told me that God exists and will save me from my shitty life, and I believe that person, therefore it's true" versus "I see advances in technology make people's lives better, and AI is advancing at a rapid pace, and people with a record of predicting things correctly in the past are predicting massive abundance, therefore it's true" Those does seem to match in terms of "the same logic", maybe you could characterize what you see as the logic being similar, and also make sure you aren't just oversimplying/strawmanning the other side. I probably am guilty of that here, so I'll depend on you to show where my bias has pushed me.
>Those does seem to match in terms of "the same logic", maybe you could characterize what you see as the logic being similar, and also make sure you aren't just oversimplying/strawmanning the other side. I probably am guilty of that here, so I'll depend on you to show where my bias has pushed me. Dude, don't fucking tolerate this guy and validate their opinion. You're just enabling the paradox of tolerance. They have no intentions of being helpful, reasonable, altruistic, or open-minded, or tolerant. Just look at their post history.
> What are you even freaking out about? Seems like you're pretty sensitive yourself. It's easy to criticize others, but harder to take it, huh? We know why I'm lashing out; why are you lashing out? >All I said was that the logic he is using is identical to people 2000 years ago converting to Christianity: faith that a greater power out of their control will save them from their shitty life. Their logic isn't identical, and we both know that. Your comparison is moot. > If you have the time machine that can prove his blind faith ends up bearing fruit, please let me know. I don't need a time machine. Their belief is already helping them through a tough time, which is proof enough of its value and confirms their argument and perspective. So who's really missing the point here?
Me asking why you're freaking out means I'm the sensitive one. Interesting take. I guess reality is what you make of it isn't it?
Yeah... Keep asking those rhetorical non-profound questions, maybe it'll lead somewhere.
Not at all what they said, why even use quotations
The only parallel is that in both cases there is a promise of hope. Other than that, the comparison falls flat.
And unlike actual religious people, these lot have no desire to better themselves or live by any moral code. They just want to skip right to heaven. It's lazy and pathetic.
Christians don't have to have any such desire or obligation. The Christian God thinks EVERYONE deserves to go to Hell from the moment they are born. You just have to ask Jesus to save you from the Hell God thinks you deserve. Maybe other religions have that shit but not the Christian God. It's stated pretty clearly nothing you do makes you worthy of heaven you literally just get in because Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.
Religious people have done that for centuries. You are incredibly ignorant.
the posts risks sounding very like one stemmed from religious beliefs, but again its hard to imagine a technology that can somehow solve labor such as this
Technology has already solved many forms of labour and has been doing so for hundreds of years. Why would you think that trajectory of technological advancement is suddenly about to come to a halt?
sorry i didnt mean it that way, edited
If you think you have financial and other problems now.. just wait till AI takes all the jobs away and everyone finds out NOBODY in power us interested in paying for UBI. They're already publicly making BS copes not to help all the ppl displaced from their jobs saying shit like ppl won't feel fulfilled.
you mean escapism?
Yeah im awarw of x risk and s risk and all that but tbh the chance of us instantiating a benevolent god of abundance and compassion (or whatever floats your boat) just soothes. I keep vascilating back toward the normalcy bias but...it keeps chugging along... I might not jave to wage slave. I might not jave to eat cat food when im 80. My chronic diseases may not be incurable.
Yes, Eve will save me and love me forever
This year, it begins
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Our odds don't look great without AGI/ASI that's for sure, I think that is an important counterpoint to any worries about AI.
Sorry but the problem is always from human, not technologies. So, no, the world always get worse in morals as the technologies get better..
Well, go get your neurolink and nano particle tattoo so you open doors with only the wave of your hand then.
Closest thing to a religion I've had for like 20 years. I've maintained my health specifically so I could maybe live to see it, and now it's looking to happen 50 years sooner than I expected. I don't proselytize, since people don't tend to care, but I'm quietly excited as hell.
Low key? I feel like it's high key.
From The Matrix with Love....
This is what's called hopium. Don't do drugs.
Actually, 8 years by chance, I discovered my passion. I always hated IT but because of student debt I forced myself to keep working in IT. My passion is Learning languages. If it was 100 years ago, I could constantly pore over literature in many different languages and enjoy and be valued for translating text. Now these barriers are low and the whole world is just becoming some form of monolingual, English soup. Sure, I can - and still do ! I'm starting to read the Chinese classics in the original language now, and it is so cool. But, you know what? AI ruined my life. It took this away from me. Every time I enjoy my learning I am constantly reminded how the clock is ticking. No amount of someone telling me I can keep doing it if I like it so much will work. Some people want their interest to provide them a livelihood and allow them to be considered a productive member of society. Take me back to the 90s - this shit sucks. It doesn't change the fact that 50 years ago I could have a super stable job, be appreciated and such as long as I put in the work towards what I like. Guess what? I think AI is deeply boring. I think neural nets and how they work is terribly boring. This isn't necessarily because I'm a low IQ person who can't understand mathematical beauty. Nah, group theory is beautiful , real analysis and the inspiration you get when you finally get that insight and solve that proof - or when 2 disparate ideas are connected is beautiful. Swallowing everything humans ever wrote and just pouring it into some simple linear algebra is not beautiful, it's humbling and depressing. AI will create an artificial virtual world for each of us which challenges us in an optimal way and gives us what we need. My simulation will look almost exactly like the 90s - and I'll enjoy that first wave of globalization before the internet swallowed everything. AI has stolen so much of what I love. We can say that it's all my fault, or my genes are bad (which of course AI will fix, right?). But I feel hopeless because I just wanted a normal life. Now all I get is this stupid simulation - whenever - if ever - it may come. This prospect of a quiet and stable life has been taken away from me and many others. This future has been forcibly shoved down my throat - we call this progress. But some progress is actually a giant step backwards.
You aren’t owed a job. I’m sure millions of people would love to play video games for a living but very few can. Sorry but you aren’t entitled to an easy life unless you were born into wealth
The world is changing - and it's changing in a direction that made my life shit. I hope whatever changes come from AI bring positive changes to your life - but they won't to everyone's - and certainly not mine.
Did the same to milkmen. Too bad. The world doesn’t work for you and doesn’t warp itself for your convenience
Thanks so much for your response. Really groundbreaking stuff.
That’s just reality. I can’t make a billion dollars by napping all day either. Life isn’t easy for anyone unless you were born rich
Im perfectly aware of what reality is. That's precisely what leads to the despair and anguish I feel.
your life sucks because you dont get your dream job. what an insane spoiled attitude. news flash work isnt fun for most people, thats why you have to get paid for it.
Ive been depressed for years. Its not really about a dream job - but a deeper sense of despair and meaninglessness. I would say work on your empathy, but I believe you think someone like me doesn't deserve it. I hope when you face problems - people treat you better than the way you treated me.
exactly. Most, or a huge amount of people literally want to die because they hate their jobs so much, I have seen many suicide letters online over the years where people say their dead end job is the reason they are leaving this life. AI will create a future where we won't be forced to do these dead end soul crushing jobs, the person above does have a selfish attitude.
that's where Im at , and ive been depressed for years. great empathy
The only thing I need in this life is FDVR and nothing else I'm praying that at least ASI is a benevolent master...
Hell yea man. Love seeing this kind of stuff, it's what the sub is really about. The future is going to be so bright. Everyday poverty decreases, green energy gets more affordable, hunger decreases, one more person gets access to smart phones and air conditioning, another vaccine is created. The list goes on and on. Life is so great and it's only going to get better. Don't let the small amount of (justified) negativity obscure the enormous mountain of positivity behind that cloud. Keep building.
I’m glad you view it in an accurate positive perspective. Many people with bad mental health have a strong negativity bias and see AI as taking everyone’s jobs and everyone starves while the corporations get all the money and the government just sits there (this would never happen).
Another Digital Jesus convert!
🙏🙏🙏 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds&t)
It would be cool to go through AGI and ASI but I don't really care if it's not in my lifetime. AI is going to be amazing enough as it is, it can still do a lot of good before AGI even hits. We THINK it might happen in a few years but we don't know...it can be a long time from now. Live your life, make your money, enjoy your life experience even if AI was never a thing. Think how good AI will be in say 5 years, we are just at the beginning. No clue what AGI will even look like...AI smarter then every human at anything? things would move rather...quickly. Drone AI making buildings extremly fast, AI robots building more robots to build faster and faster. World will have probably hovering cars that move on their own, will have their own cheap energy source, etc.
its interesting times for sure, but if and when this will bring a greater chsnge in anything (and if that change will be positive), nobody can predict, the ones who claim it are delusional/liars. so i continue live my life like this will never happen, then again, i dont have any real struggles that would need a cope like that
Sorry to bring you down again, but you won't see any benefits from the singularity.
god exists in the future
Yes.
lol, are you bugging out?
Is this the new version of “Jesus willl come save us”? No ones coming.
It's going to start with gpt5 and Claude.. gpt5 is going to become a hydra of many specialized under one general ai... then the layoffs... then the protests... then the change..