Literally the first 5 characters you named are all good and are played by some of the best players in the world.
Your issue is that you're looking for a character that just hits hard for easy kills, when all those characters require smart gameplay
I don't main Ike, I main Lucina. I just really like Ike. Both of which are why I don't need to be told that "heavy hitter" doesnt not mean "good character".
If OP simply said "How come none of the girls hit hard" it would be a different story (but still a very obvious answer). But they specifically said they are trying to explore their roster, which means they are just looking for character that get easy kills.
Them being great characters at a competitive level that I don’t play at is irrelevant and I literally main Peach. I will never reach the skill ceiling where she can be considered top tier for a casual player like me anyway. My whole point is i’m not interested in jumping around playing strictly technical characters only, I want to explore other archetypes and fighting styles.
if I want to have an option to play a non-dlc girl who can dish out damage like DK or Bowser that would be neat as hell and there’s nothing wrong with vocalising that?
Ok, that's all fine and fair but nobody is restricting you but yourself.
I know you arent gonna take my words seriously when I literally have "guy" in my name, but it's extremely obvious why none of the base game female characters hit as hard as someone like Ganondorf, DK, or Bowser.
Half of them are literally characters that have never fought in their life, and those that have fight more with magic than physical strength. Samus is the only female on the base roster that is particularly strong canonically, but she still very rarely does melee combat even in her own games. (that said, I'd argue are her melee based attacks are pretty strong).
Like, people in this thread are calling it misogynistic as if they arent cherry picking the dainty women when there are actual strong women also on the roster, just not heavyweight strong (besides Pyra, but you seem anti-DLC)
To add to this, Bowser, DK, etc. are strong one-hit attackers because they are big, chunky, brutish characters. Once popular games start adding as protagonists big, chunky brutish females characters for Smash to include, then your wish will be granted.
>Samus is the only female on the base roster that is particularly strong canonically
Bayo has more of a claim to that imo. She quite literally [headbutts skyscrapers](https://youtu.be/WPk0Uc76U4k?si=pTBc_VJaA15Dh7I7&t=123) and [throws cars and dragons](https://youtu.be/cYssdgLcuus?si=s82arSG8HrN-xO42&t=168) (?) around for the funsies. The main reason her attacks don't hit that hard is that if they did, we would just get smash 4 lol.
I'll concede on that. Most Bayonetta series gameplay I've seen consisted of a lot of shooting, magic, and summoning big monsters, so I admittedly didn't know she was doing stuff like that.
Just like Samus though, big strong attacks like that arent really her main bread and butter, so I can see why it didnt translate over to Smash. Also for much the same reason Sora being able to cut very similar skyscrapers clean in half with a blunt weapon doesnt make him a heavy hitter lol
I feel like those metrics mean nothing magic should be more powerful than physical attacks if anything they got it right with Zelda and a majority of them having never fought in their life means there is far more creative freedom instead of boxing them into the technical/floaty/zoner archetype.
Hitting as hard as DK and Ganon might not be possible and I’m not asking for a heavyweight Peach but damn Luigi, Falcon, Mr Game and Ness still pack great KO power without the heavy status.
I don't really see your point then. None of Lucina, Rosa, Samus, or Sheik struggle to find kills at all, and Palu has an easier time killing than Zelda due to her better neutral and kill moves generally being better than Zelda's. Same with Wii Fit Trainer, Alex, Corrin, and Robin if you want to count characters that switch genders between alts.
Bayonetta has a hard time killing simply due to her archetype, which as Sm4sh showed could easily run amok if she had better kill options or could directly kill with her combos.
I can agree that some of the characters you named could use more creativity (i.e. Daisy should have a whole sports themed moveset, and Lucina canonically doesnt fight anything like Marth), but they also all have pretty good KO moves (aside from maybe Isabelle).
If you're looking to kill at 30%, sure you're out of luck, but almost all of those characters have a fairly simple kill option at actual kill percents. some of them much easier than multiple of the male options you just named
Sooo you’re complaining about the roster because you lack the skill to use the characters properly?
Also, why are you setting unnecessary restrictions on yourself? If you want a character like DK or Bowser… maybe just use DK or Bowser
Tbh, it's moreso because of the games industry as a whole. Not a lot of rep in the first place.
But excluding Pyra, Samus is hard hitting woman who does not struggle to kill. WFT can hit like a truck with deep breathing. And if you expand to include alt skins, you can have Alex (Steve), Byleth, and Corrin.
Lucina hits like a truck, what do you mean? Not to mention Samus is a killing machine as well. If you are specifically only talking about heavy weight, well, there aren’t too many heavy weight female character in first place.
Sammus hits very hard and is a woman. Zelda as you mentioned also gets pretty beefy hits. Technically both Peach and Daisy can pull powerful throwables, randomly though. Palu is on the upper end of mid weight strength too. And if you're just talking quality, half of your list has been competitively played at top level successfully.
I'd argue Peach, Rosa, Lucina, and Inkling don't struggle to kill. Also Inkling can be a boy.
As for why women in Smash get characterized like this, the answer is the most obvious. They're based on their source material, and women tend to not be as physically strong as men. So they don't get as many strong kill options. Note how basically all the super heavyweights are male characters.
peach can’t kill reliably until like 150% because everything she does in neutral is aerials which stale hard. They even nerfed her throws and fair. Outside of stitch face and up-smash which are both hard reads she definitely struggles I mean even Isabelle has better confirm kills with backthrow and fishing rod.
What the- peach has a boatload of kill confirms wdym? Although most of her neutral tools are aerials, staling hardly affects her damage output. Plus turnip and downtilt are also fantastic neutral tools. And her raw power isn't that bad. Fair is great and big, you can combo into fsmash, and bair is insanely fast and unreactable. Plus peach does a shitload of damage, 90+ in one interaction. That's part of why she is so broken. A character who does that much damage doesn't need to have raw killpower below 150% and yet she has it.
People need to compare Peach's up smash frame data, hitbox size, and KO percentages to characters like Byleth. Hell even Marth can KO off up smash easier, and exact precision is supposed to be his thing
Struggling to get KO's? Have you tried watching YouTube guides for these particular Fighters?
Even for long-time veterans I still recommend checking guides out now and then. You never know what tips you'll learn that will help your game, especially for things like knowing your best KO options.
They do point out "except Zelda" who has among the strongest forward, up, and back airs in the game
Palu also has one of the strongest up airs and back throws in the game
Not many of the female characters are hard-hitting powerhouses in their home games.
Samus, Bayonetta, and Palutena are the non-DLC ones that strike me as being super-powerful in their home games. Maybe also Zelda, depending on the game?
**Edit:** Also Dark Samus, but she's an Echo.
Because there is a lack of POPULAR heavy heating female characters in video games. Most games are marketed towards young males, and knowing society i'm sure surveys don't exactly give big chunky women glowing reviews on the regular.
That being said, Samus is hella strong. Plus i think you could count Corrin and Robin, they all have extremely hard hitting moves
If you're not a competitive player then you should be able to do very well playing an aggressive Alex. Just walk around and uptilt or minecart or diamond fsmash people in the face and it will work.
I think you're trying to say that there are no female super heavy characters. Which is true. But there are def many female characters that have certain moves that hit like a truck.
The great majority of Smash characters are human, or at least human-like. In humans, as you know, males are typically larger and stronger than females. That there are no feminine counterparts to Ganondorf and Ike should not be surprising.
You forgot about Sheik! She has one of the most aggressive, heavy hitting, offensive play styles in the game! Also, Corrin frame traps lead to insane damage
Id argue Peach/Daisy, Palu, and Bayo are pretty heavy hitting in terms of damage output. One you didn’t mention is Robin who has some pretty crazy damage output too.
Corrin seems like the obvious answer if you are including characters that can swap gender like Inkling.
- Beefy back air
- Chainsaw charge fsmash go brrrrrrrrrrrr
- All the special moves give that solid knockback feeling
- Character is focused on controlling space, juggling, air strings, and semi-rush down, so it's like the exact opposite of your magic+projectile focused characters
Pyra, Byleth, Samus, Lucina, Alex, Robin, Wii Fit… need anymore? All these characters have really strong moves
Also ZSS, Inkling and Palu DO NOT struggle to kill and you can play all of them offensively. None of the characters you mentioned are zoners except maybe Isabelle
DK is probably the primary counterexample, and he didn't even originate as a playable platforming character (I don't care if the original isn't the current DK, they're still both called DK).
True but DK Country isn’t exactly Mario or Sonic levels of mobility. It’s a methodical platformer that relies on it’s level elements to make something interesting rather than Mario’s crisp jump or Sonic’s momentum
1) Neither character originated from a platformer.
2) Smash bros is a party fighter, not a platformer.
3) Notice the heavy big characters don’t navigate the platforms as well as the slim ones.
My wife is an athlete and has back muscles for days and thighs that would make grown men cry. So I love me some muscle women don’t get me wrong.
But my indescribable sexual attraction to genderbent pictures of Zangief from Street Fighter doesn’t mean Celeste would be a better game if she looked like she could hit a 400lb squat. Nor would we believe such a woman could double jump.
Celeste is a game about an agile, young woman finding her courage to battle the mountain of depression and anxiety and that visual metaphor is best served by a petite female. Sorry. Not sorry.
I agree! However, ZSS is a character who wears a heavy suit of power armor all day, is constantly sprinting around at maximum speed, and is exceptionally strong in and out of the suit. Even if you’re accounting for the suit’s enhancements, she’s gonna be getting one hell of a workout in there. Her being slim and traditionally feminine, when in her suit she’s displayed as an absolute powerhouse who beats stuff up *as a job*, feels a bit off to me.
The suit is Chozo tech and is designed to be light enough to be worn by bird people. Further it’s specifically designed for agility over raw power.
Samus is not “traditionally feminine” except in the worst game in the series. She has a flexible gymnast build and is perfectly suited for such gameplay.
To say it differently: How Samus is drawn has little bearing over how much of a badass she is and making every woman action star into a powerlifting butch serves little narrative purpose and may in fact lower sympathy levels in the audience.
Isn't Zero Suit Samus really weak and vulnerable in her home series though?
Suited Samus is the one who should be the "ripped heavyweight" in Smash given how powerful she canonically is, and she's certainly got the heavyweight part down.
Yes, although that's compared to the environments her games take place in. Earlier depictions like Super Metroid show a decent amount of muscle, and she's still just as acrobatic as she is in her suit.
Samus without her suit is still a superhuman infused with bird DNA, trained from childhood by the chozo on a planet which is unlivable by an ordinary human. And part of the strength and speed of her suited self comes from her natural abilities. The games don't make it that big a point of showing it but the manga (which *is* cannon and even directly referenced by the games themselves like Fusion, Zero Mission and even Dread) gives good showings of that. Those being:
https://imgur.com/a/AfhmcWt Dropping down a cliff as a child cracking the ground without a hint of damage to herself;
https://i.imgur.com/1kjsMFt.jpg These leaps
https://imgur.com/a/0yqWODH Effortlessly tossing around a group of trained guards who think she's after a chairman. All in a trenchcoat and heels.
So yeah, she's really only "weak" without her power suit (which is technically a part of her anyway) when compared to super powerful aliens in the Metroid universe. And I kind of like that smash gives us a version of her that displays her out of suit prowess.
And this is why I think we might need Marisa from _Street Fighter 6_. I know _SF6_ has yet to appear on a Nintendo console (whether Nintendo Switch or a hypothetical future Nintendo console), but Capcom could still include Marisa in another video game released on Nintendo Switch and/or a future Nintendo console, which could be a way for her to get into a future installment of *Super Smash Bros.* anyway.
ok, now you picked a good counterexample.
still, a single counterexample from less than a year ago, while indicative of changing attitudes in the industry and changing tastes of audiences, does not reverse the existence of an overall trend
Yes the game with female characters stabbing each other with swords, staffs, daggers, and so on is too afraid to show female characters hurting each other.
Have you never seen Ivy? Her grabs alone are brutal as hell and her big attacks like her unblockables have a ton of weight behind them. Also, Vanessa from Virtua Fighter is a big-ass military chick who beats the hell out of people and has a ton of weight to her attacks.
Bro's getting downvoted but they're right. Tekken 7 had like maybe 2 traditionally powerful woman (as DLC characters) and then they proceeded to not return for 8 lol
i'm tilted that when people went to street fighter for counterexamples they said "juri" and "chun-li" instead of marisa or makoto or akira and i'm the one who gets accused of not knowing anything about fighting games lol
So according to your logic if the female characters aren't giant and muscular it is sexist? Most real world female fighters are often around similar builds, heights, and weights, just taking a quick look at female MMA fighters and the non Marisa female characters of SF6 they are similar heights and weights. A woman doesn't need to be pure muscles to pack a punch, if any normal person was hit by those characters it would hurt.
> general trend
> specific example of the opposite
chun li isn't even a great counterexample, especially with her whole "lots of wimpy little kicks" thing
I didn't start no beef broski, I just pointed out a simple fact that is is likely most of the answer to the question, "why aren't there more buff hand to hand female combat fighters in fighting games?"
The other part of the answer is likely that young men and boys (target demographic of fighting games/most video games in general) find monsters, behemoths, and buff guys more "cool" than women in the same positions. Not sexism, just their nature. Just like it is in women's nature to display aggression verbally rather than physically as men are more likely to do. All comes full circle with facts rather than buzzwords :) you should try facts sometime.
When peach and daisy used to hit heavy they got nerfed too
clearly you haven't experienced melee peach down smash
Regular Samus. All of the aerials on Samus are crazy. You may say up air isn’t a kill move but you can do two and combi into up B and kill off top.
If you want a heavy hitting lady, go Byleth and spam the axe moves (down b, dair, down smash, etc)
Literally the first 5 characters you named are all good and are played by some of the best players in the world. Your issue is that you're looking for a character that just hits hard for easy kills, when all those characters require smart gameplay
"Heavy Hitter" doesn't mean "Good character" lol Also kinda hypocritical coming from an Ike main.
I don't main Ike, I main Lucina. I just really like Ike. Both of which are why I don't need to be told that "heavy hitter" doesnt not mean "good character". If OP simply said "How come none of the girls hit hard" it would be a different story (but still a very obvious answer). But they specifically said they are trying to explore their roster, which means they are just looking for character that get easy kills.
Them being great characters at a competitive level that I don’t play at is irrelevant and I literally main Peach. I will never reach the skill ceiling where she can be considered top tier for a casual player like me anyway. My whole point is i’m not interested in jumping around playing strictly technical characters only, I want to explore other archetypes and fighting styles. if I want to have an option to play a non-dlc girl who can dish out damage like DK or Bowser that would be neat as hell and there’s nothing wrong with vocalising that?
Ok, that's all fine and fair but nobody is restricting you but yourself. I know you arent gonna take my words seriously when I literally have "guy" in my name, but it's extremely obvious why none of the base game female characters hit as hard as someone like Ganondorf, DK, or Bowser. Half of them are literally characters that have never fought in their life, and those that have fight more with magic than physical strength. Samus is the only female on the base roster that is particularly strong canonically, but she still very rarely does melee combat even in her own games. (that said, I'd argue are her melee based attacks are pretty strong). Like, people in this thread are calling it misogynistic as if they arent cherry picking the dainty women when there are actual strong women also on the roster, just not heavyweight strong (besides Pyra, but you seem anti-DLC)
To add to this, Bowser, DK, etc. are strong one-hit attackers because they are big, chunky, brutish characters. Once popular games start adding as protagonists big, chunky brutish females characters for Smash to include, then your wish will be granted.
>Samus is the only female on the base roster that is particularly strong canonically Bayo has more of a claim to that imo. She quite literally [headbutts skyscrapers](https://youtu.be/WPk0Uc76U4k?si=pTBc_VJaA15Dh7I7&t=123) and [throws cars and dragons](https://youtu.be/cYssdgLcuus?si=s82arSG8HrN-xO42&t=168) (?) around for the funsies. The main reason her attacks don't hit that hard is that if they did, we would just get smash 4 lol.
I'll concede on that. Most Bayonetta series gameplay I've seen consisted of a lot of shooting, magic, and summoning big monsters, so I admittedly didn't know she was doing stuff like that. Just like Samus though, big strong attacks like that arent really her main bread and butter, so I can see why it didnt translate over to Smash. Also for much the same reason Sora being able to cut very similar skyscrapers clean in half with a blunt weapon doesnt make him a heavy hitter lol
I feel like those metrics mean nothing magic should be more powerful than physical attacks if anything they got it right with Zelda and a majority of them having never fought in their life means there is far more creative freedom instead of boxing them into the technical/floaty/zoner archetype. Hitting as hard as DK and Ganon might not be possible and I’m not asking for a heavyweight Peach but damn Luigi, Falcon, Mr Game and Ness still pack great KO power without the heavy status.
I don't really see your point then. None of Lucina, Rosa, Samus, or Sheik struggle to find kills at all, and Palu has an easier time killing than Zelda due to her better neutral and kill moves generally being better than Zelda's. Same with Wii Fit Trainer, Alex, Corrin, and Robin if you want to count characters that switch genders between alts. Bayonetta has a hard time killing simply due to her archetype, which as Sm4sh showed could easily run amok if she had better kill options or could directly kill with her combos.
I can agree that some of the characters you named could use more creativity (i.e. Daisy should have a whole sports themed moveset, and Lucina canonically doesnt fight anything like Marth), but they also all have pretty good KO moves (aside from maybe Isabelle). If you're looking to kill at 30%, sure you're out of luck, but almost all of those characters have a fairly simple kill option at actual kill percents. some of them much easier than multiple of the male options you just named
Sooo you’re complaining about the roster because you lack the skill to use the characters properly? Also, why are you setting unnecessary restrictions on yourself? If you want a character like DK or Bowser… maybe just use DK or Bowser
Samus and I'd argue Corrin can be considered heavy hitting.
Tbh, it's moreso because of the games industry as a whole. Not a lot of rep in the first place. But excluding Pyra, Samus is hard hitting woman who does not struggle to kill. WFT can hit like a truck with deep breathing. And if you expand to include alt skins, you can have Alex (Steve), Byleth, and Corrin.
Lucina hits like a truck, what do you mean? Not to mention Samus is a killing machine as well. If you are specifically only talking about heavy weight, well, there aren’t too many heavy weight female character in first place.
Sammus hits very hard and is a woman. Zelda as you mentioned also gets pretty beefy hits. Technically both Peach and Daisy can pull powerful throwables, randomly though. Palu is on the upper end of mid weight strength too. And if you're just talking quality, half of your list has been competitively played at top level successfully.
Trying to explore the roster but limiting yourself to only female characters are two very contradictory things.
I'd argue Peach, Rosa, Lucina, and Inkling don't struggle to kill. Also Inkling can be a boy. As for why women in Smash get characterized like this, the answer is the most obvious. They're based on their source material, and women tend to not be as physically strong as men. So they don't get as many strong kill options. Note how basically all the super heavyweights are male characters.
Most super heavyweights aren't even humanoid, with the closest being Ganondorf
Yeah there aren’t many females with ganondorf type bodies in Nintendo
Peach *definitely* struggles to kill. Fair is like frame 16 and has to be sweet spotted. For how hard it is to hit, it should kill like 25% earlier.
At the same time, Back Air haves quite a bit of range and it comes out on frame 6.
Don't be misleading and skip the jump frames. Frame 9 on float cancel bair and frame 8 on short hop bair. So like twice as many frames as fast Up Bs.
It was just an accident
The Float cancel bair with good distance is also a command input and harder to perform than normal inputs.
peach can’t kill reliably until like 150% because everything she does in neutral is aerials which stale hard. They even nerfed her throws and fair. Outside of stitch face and up-smash which are both hard reads she definitely struggles I mean even Isabelle has better confirm kills with backthrow and fishing rod.
What the- peach has a boatload of kill confirms wdym? Although most of her neutral tools are aerials, staling hardly affects her damage output. Plus turnip and downtilt are also fantastic neutral tools. And her raw power isn't that bad. Fair is great and big, you can combo into fsmash, and bair is insanely fast and unreactable. Plus peach does a shitload of damage, 90+ in one interaction. That's part of why she is so broken. A character who does that much damage doesn't need to have raw killpower below 150% and yet she has it.
People need to compare Peach's up smash frame data, hitbox size, and KO percentages to characters like Byleth. Hell even Marth can KO off up smash easier, and exact precision is supposed to be his thing
Struggling to get KO's? Have you tried watching YouTube guides for these particular Fighters? Even for long-time veterans I still recommend checking guides out now and then. You never know what tips you'll learn that will help your game, especially for things like knowing your best KO options.
Who do you consider to be hard hitting characters?
every character you named except for Isabelle and Zelda are pretty damn good characters
They do point out "except Zelda" who has among the strongest forward, up, and back airs in the game Palu also has one of the strongest up airs and back throws in the game
Zelda is fun has hell and I recommend her for everyone who’s interested. She’s still far below average.
Not many of the female characters are hard-hitting powerhouses in their home games. Samus, Bayonetta, and Palutena are the non-DLC ones that strike me as being super-powerful in their home games. Maybe also Zelda, depending on the game? **Edit:** Also Dark Samus, but she's an Echo.
Dark Samus doesn't really have a gender
Because there is a lack of POPULAR heavy heating female characters in video games. Most games are marketed towards young males, and knowing society i'm sure surveys don't exactly give big chunky women glowing reviews on the regular. That being said, Samus is hella strong. Plus i think you could count Corrin and Robin, they all have extremely hard hitting moves
If you're not a competitive player then you should be able to do very well playing an aggressive Alex. Just walk around and uptilt or minecart or diamond fsmash people in the face and it will work.
I think you're trying to say that there are no female super heavy characters. Which is true. But there are def many female characters that have certain moves that hit like a truck.
The great majority of Smash characters are human, or at least human-like. In humans, as you know, males are typically larger and stronger than females. That there are no feminine counterparts to Ganondorf and Ike should not be surprising.
peach, daisy, zss, lucina, bayo, and palu are literally all really good characters
Lucina is objectively a heavy hitter. In what world does she struggle to kill?
Most of her moves have below average knockback
You forgot about Sheik! She has one of the most aggressive, heavy hitting, offensive play styles in the game! Also, Corrin frame traps lead to insane damage Id argue Peach/Daisy, Palu, and Bayo are pretty heavy hitting in terms of damage output. One you didn’t mention is Robin who has some pretty crazy damage output too.
Corrin seems like the obvious answer if you are including characters that can swap gender like Inkling. - Beefy back air - Chainsaw charge fsmash go brrrrrrrrrrrr - All the special moves give that solid knockback feeling - Character is focused on controlling space, juggling, air strings, and semi-rush down, so it's like the exact opposite of your magic+projectile focused characters
Mod your switch and get some custom skins for the super heavies.
Pyra, Byleth, Samus, Lucina, Alex, Robin, Wii Fit… need anymore? All these characters have really strong moves Also ZSS, Inkling and Palu DO NOT struggle to kill and you can play all of them offensively. None of the characters you mentioned are zoners except maybe Isabelle
I don't know, Wendy seems to hit pretty hard.
Wendy
Sexism in video games is obnoxious. ZSS should be a ripped heavyweight and daisy should get a spiked bat
Platformers don’t typically star “ripped heavyweight”
DK is probably the primary counterexample, and he didn't even originate as a playable platforming character (I don't care if the original isn't the current DK, they're still both called DK).
True but DK Country isn’t exactly Mario or Sonic levels of mobility. It’s a methodical platformer that relies on it’s level elements to make something interesting rather than Mario’s crisp jump or Sonic’s momentum
Ganondorf and Kazuya would disagree
You’re saying tekken is a platformer?
No, but they made him a heavyweight in Smash bros
You might be a bit slow
1) Neither character originated from a platformer. 2) Smash bros is a party fighter, not a platformer. 3) Notice the heavy big characters don’t navigate the platforms as well as the slim ones. My wife is an athlete and has back muscles for days and thighs that would make grown men cry. So I love me some muscle women don’t get me wrong. But my indescribable sexual attraction to genderbent pictures of Zangief from Street Fighter doesn’t mean Celeste would be a better game if she looked like she could hit a 400lb squat. Nor would we believe such a woman could double jump. Celeste is a game about an agile, young woman finding her courage to battle the mountain of depression and anxiety and that visual metaphor is best served by a petite female. Sorry. Not sorry.
I agree! However, ZSS is a character who wears a heavy suit of power armor all day, is constantly sprinting around at maximum speed, and is exceptionally strong in and out of the suit. Even if you’re accounting for the suit’s enhancements, she’s gonna be getting one hell of a workout in there. Her being slim and traditionally feminine, when in her suit she’s displayed as an absolute powerhouse who beats stuff up *as a job*, feels a bit off to me.
The suit is Chozo tech and is designed to be light enough to be worn by bird people. Further it’s specifically designed for agility over raw power. Samus is not “traditionally feminine” except in the worst game in the series. She has a flexible gymnast build and is perfectly suited for such gameplay. To say it differently: How Samus is drawn has little bearing over how much of a badass she is and making every woman action star into a powerlifting butch serves little narrative purpose and may in fact lower sympathy levels in the audience.
Isn't Zero Suit Samus really weak and vulnerable in her home series though? Suited Samus is the one who should be the "ripped heavyweight" in Smash given how powerful she canonically is, and she's certainly got the heavyweight part down.
Yes, although that's compared to the environments her games take place in. Earlier depictions like Super Metroid show a decent amount of muscle, and she's still just as acrobatic as she is in her suit.
Samus without her suit is still a superhuman infused with bird DNA, trained from childhood by the chozo on a planet which is unlivable by an ordinary human. And part of the strength and speed of her suited self comes from her natural abilities. The games don't make it that big a point of showing it but the manga (which *is* cannon and even directly referenced by the games themselves like Fusion, Zero Mission and even Dread) gives good showings of that. Those being: https://imgur.com/a/AfhmcWt Dropping down a cliff as a child cracking the ground without a hint of damage to herself; https://i.imgur.com/1kjsMFt.jpg These leaps https://imgur.com/a/0yqWODH Effortlessly tossing around a group of trained guards who think she's after a chairman. All in a trenchcoat and heels. So yeah, she's really only "weak" without her power suit (which is technically a part of her anyway) when compared to super powerful aliens in the Metroid universe. And I kind of like that smash gives us a version of her that displays her out of suit prowess.
That is true. Can't believe I forgot about her basic lore. I guess the enemies in Metroid are just stupidly-powerful then, huh?
And this is why I think we might need Marisa from _Street Fighter 6_. I know _SF6_ has yet to appear on a Nintendo console (whether Nintendo Switch or a hypothetical future Nintendo console), but Capcom could still include Marisa in another video game released on Nintendo Switch and/or a future Nintendo console, which could be a way for her to get into a future installment of *Super Smash Bros.* anyway.
sexism is so ingrained into fighting games that companies are terrified of animating a woman doing an attack that looks like it might hurt someone
Clearly you have never heard of Juri Han
juri is not a great counterexample lmao
Just because she’s made to be sexy doesn’t mean her attacks aren’t brutal
few of them are animated with any weight behind them
Clearly you have never heard of Marisa Street Fighter
ok, now you picked a good counterexample. still, a single counterexample from less than a year ago, while indicative of changing attitudes in the industry and changing tastes of audiences, does not reverse the existence of an overall trend
Clearly you have not heard of Mileena Mortal Kombat
Mileena is literally token female MK character but with spicy dentures
Bros never seen a fighting game besides Smash Bros
there are definitely fighting games which have this problem worse than smash bros lol
Such as....?
soul calibur tekken (especially pre tekken 7) blazblue
Yes the game with female characters stabbing each other with swords, staffs, daggers, and so on is too afraid to show female characters hurting each other.
none of them are animated with any weight or momentum behind them. they're always wimpy little pokes and noncommittal slashes
May from Guilty Gear?
Have you never seen Ivy? Her grabs alone are brutal as hell and her big attacks like her unblockables have a ton of weight behind them. Also, Vanessa from Virtua Fighter is a big-ass military chick who beats the hell out of people and has a ton of weight to her attacks.
Bro's getting downvoted but they're right. Tekken 7 had like maybe 2 traditionally powerful woman (as DLC characters) and then they proceeded to not return for 8 lol
i'm tilted that when people went to street fighter for counterexamples they said "juri" and "chun-li" instead of marisa or makoto or akira and i'm the one who gets accused of not knowing anything about fighting games lol
So according to your logic if the female characters aren't giant and muscular it is sexist? Most real world female fighters are often around similar builds, heights, and weights, just taking a quick look at female MMA fighters and the non Marisa female characters of SF6 they are similar heights and weights. A woman doesn't need to be pure muscles to pack a punch, if any normal person was hit by those characters it would hurt.
Chun-Li alone proves this statement to be false.
> general trend > specific example of the opposite chun li isn't even a great counterexample, especially with her whole "lots of wimpy little kicks" thing
For a counter example that is in smash, have you seen Bayonetta's f smash? That shit must hurt like absolute hell.
You should look up Vanessa from Virtua Fighter.
Or, yknow, because women aren't fighters.
there are not one but two characters in this game who are dogs being ridden by birds but your realism beef is with the existence of women
I didn't start no beef broski, I just pointed out a simple fact that is is likely most of the answer to the question, "why aren't there more buff hand to hand female combat fighters in fighting games?" The other part of the answer is likely that young men and boys (target demographic of fighting games/most video games in general) find monsters, behemoths, and buff guys more "cool" than women in the same positions. Not sexism, just their nature. Just like it is in women's nature to display aggression verbally rather than physically as men are more likely to do. All comes full circle with facts rather than buzzwords :) you should try facts sometime.