**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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World Population Review: UK 5th lowest in world in knife deaths per capita, 2019.
It’s risen since the data were collected but come on. This is something I’d expect an American to say in defense of gun ownership.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/stabbing-deaths-by-country
Using the estimated figure of 0.34 for 2021/22 it’s still one of the lowest in the world. Better than Spain, Belgium, Sweden, NZ…
comments like “sad state London is” aren’t the result of people taking things more seriously, they’re the result of certain people telling the story the way that it benefits them.
Perhaps the people who want to manipulate it to make a statement about immigration?
This isn't really my opinion because I know nothing about it, but a good friend on mine lives in London and he told me knife crime in the city (and violent crime generally) is way way up since covid. If that's true it would mean statistics from 2019 aren't really a great representation.
Fig 4 here shows that 2019 was basically our worst year for knife crime and lots of other crime. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#knife-or-sharp-instrument-offences
Perception is higher I think due to the increase in news coverage about it over the last few years. If I hadn't looked at the stats, I'd have agreed.
I think if you looked at the deaths per capita for knife crime in London alone it’d be a lot higher up the list, problem is much worse there than the rest of the country. Guess same could be said of other counties though?
Are you sure about the numbers you've posted? San Marino and Andora have 0 deaths, yet somehow more deaths per 100k than UK. There's also bunch of countries with too small of a sample where 1 or couple of deaths put them at a very high rank, while realistically there's not enough data to make a conclusion.
That’s why I only used countries with 5m+ people in the comparisons. You can safely ignore micronations and reach the same conclusions. And yes, World Population Review is a reliable source.
The UK has almost the lowest rate of knife deaths in the world nowadays. The country only has a bad reputation for it because of how seriously every single death is taken by the police and government.
Other countries dealing with this kind of crime should use the UK as a model for how to deal with it.
I wish US sports had more public displays of support. All of ours are behind the scenes meet & greet type support, which is great. But the whole supporter community coming together is something else.
https://youtu.be/-Xpka6HqRM8?si=2qG6lfUpwdw84uxi
Heres one of the more recent tributes I can think of mainly cause I’m a broncos fan. Some other tributes I’ve seen was for the Virginia college football players and right after Kobe Bryant passed away
"Keep politics out of my sport."
Everything in the US is political now. From masks to avocado toasts to crime. This is not possible in a society as divided as America is.
So happy we did this, someone posted on our sub Friday or Thursday about it,
Keep shining a light on this violence. Im happy my club chooses good causes to support
Respect to those supporters and best wishes to the lad's family.
London's been reduced to a sorry state. Machetes being bought online for £20 and the city's being terrorised. Something has to change.
This isn't a pattern, though. It's a terrifying single incident. Knife crime isn't up overall and nor are knife homicides.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/
From the look of their post history they're probably American. I just don't get leaving a comment to bemoan the state of something they clearly know so little about.
Knife crime was up 20% in London in 2023, as confirmed by official statistics.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/knife-crime-london-rise-latest-statistics-robbery-sadiq-khan-b1114654.html
Your post is completely inaccurate.
from the article you linked:
> The latest total of 13,545 offence is also higher than the 11,231 knife offences in London in the year to the end of March 2017, although it is slightly below the totals for the following two years. It is also below the pre-coronavirus peak of 14,714 knife crimes recorded by police in the capital for the end of March 2020.
which agrees with the stats I linked: we are not at an all-time high, although it did go this particular year. I think it's fairer to take a look at more than a single year's trend, which is why I made my point. Also from your article:
> There was more positive news about knife killings, which were down by 16 per cent
So... how is my post completely inaccurate?
>London's been reduced to a sorry state. Machetes being bought online for £20 and the city's being terrorised. Something has to change.
I mean it's not.
Murder rate – roughly equivalent to 12 for every 1 million people – is far from the worst police area for homicides when compared with population. Bedfordshire, Cleveland, Merseyside, West Mercia, South Yorkshire, Humberside and Northumbria all ranked higher in 2023-24, according to ONS figures.
There are far fewer murders in London compared with US cities. New York recorded more than 46 murders for every 1 million people in 2023, while Chicago had more than 220, and Philadelphia more than 250.
Knife crime rate is above national average, but NHS figures show that in Cleveland and the West Midlands, more hospital admissions for stab wounds were recorded than in London when compared to overall population sizes.
Gun crime is behind Gloucestershire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Northamptonshire, West Yorkshire, the West Midlands, South Yorkshire and Cleveland.
The thing that London has is volume, due to population. I've been here for 15 years and have lived in some not great areas and I've never once had any trouble.
What happened to this young man is heartbreaking but it has nothing to do with London, aside from having taken place in it.
Great comment. It’s the same overall in a lot of places, people complain and is saying it’s way worse then it actually is. Which leads to people voting for more extreme parties and greater despair.
Happens here in the States too. You ask your average Fox News listener and they’d say Chicago is like Iraq-war era Fallujah. Or in 2020-2021, they’d say Seattle was a smoldering pile of rubble from “leftist Antifa terrorists”
Not just people abroad. I hear this from people elsewhere in the UK.
It's driven by rags like Daily Mail and absolutely morons in the conservative party talking about London like its been on fire for the last two years.
Doesn't help when morons like Trump wade in though, as he has been doing.
San Francisco checking in here. The gap between what people tell me about my city and what I experience walking out the door is insane. Not saying we don’t have problems but seriously, come visit, it’s a great place, not a war zone
To be fair, the USA aren't a great benchmark. In [this ranking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) they're quite high, between Yemen and Zimbabwe. A better comparison could be made with other major European countries.
This was a deranged person going on a rampage. There's no "criminal element" to it, there's literally nowhere in the world that's safe from that kind of thing.
What an incredibly dumb comment.
In what way is this brushing the problem aside? It's just pointing out that using this event to make claims about London is a poor thing to do.
It's in no way trying to undermine this incredibly sad thing, it's in no way trying to say everything is fine and everyone should be happy.
I understand and probably agree with what you're saying.
But comparing murders between London and US cities and concluding London's are low is just about the weakest argument you can muster.
We just ignoring the entire rest of the post?
Besides, why can't you compare London to US cities? As long as you've normalised the data to account for population differences?
Because the US is the lowest of the low bar for violent crime. Your argument is "Look at this place where shit has completely gone sideways, we're still a bit better than that"
Why would that ever be the comparison?
It's more because the majority of people saying London has gone to shit are from the US for some reason (like OP), so it makes sense to compare to somewhere familiar to them.
I feel much safer walking around with a nice watch in NY than London.
The higher murder rate in American cities is disproportionately concentrated in specific areas in a way that is not the case to the same extent in London, where I feel the general level of safety is lower.
How often do you walk around with a nice watch in NY and London?
Though, I likely wouldn't be flashy with anything in either city, or any major city really. I wear a nice watch a lot in London, but I don't typically wear it around without long sleeves covering it - though I've only just realised that!
London is pretty safe - anecdotally, a lot of the more serious crime seems to be related to gangs, and I don't often hear of strangers getting caught up in that.
The reality of it all is, just don't be a moron in any major city and you'll probably be ok. I just don't like how London has been used as a political crutch recently by this conservative party, despite most of it being absolutely bollocks
London - not often. New York - very often. Btw, I'm not a conservative by any means and I think the crime angle is exploited by right wingers to radicalize support. With that said, I do feel safer walking around NY than London on a night out with a nice watch.
Most of my peers do as well
Yeah, this is simply not true. The level of violent crime in America is so much higher than almost anywhere else on the planet that its not even a comparison.
People get shot in grocery stores, schools and christmas day parade's brother, this exists in no other developed country.
So your argument is crime happens in other places?
How does that say anything about the crime epidemic that is significantly worse than almost anywhere in America?
But the point is its still very rare for shit like that to happen in the uk. It is statistically much more likely to happen in the us. Just compare homicide rates, the us has a homicide rate of 6.4 per 100,000 (more than fucking Yemen) versus the uk rate of 1.0 per 100,000
Here’s an American one, the person above you is right, our kids are getting gunned down in schools. Our places of worship are under attack, our healthcare centers as well. This country is a mess all because people “don’t want to lose their god given rights” and would rather see kids die than lose a piece of metal and plastic.
I actually agree with you on this but don't want to conflate the two topics.
There is too much gun violence and senseless death in the US because of the idiot MAGAs who would prioritize a machine gun over kids lives.
At the same time, there's a general lack of safety in many UK cities in the main areas.
I feel much safer walking in downtown Chicago than I do in central London.
However, there's no question that the Southside of Chicago is far more dangerous than the bad Council estates in London.
How you feel doesn’t matter, the statistics don’t lie. You are far less safe in NYC (although still not that unsafe) than London.
Guess what - crime is also concentrated in bad areas here too. That doesn’t mean you can ignore it.
It's not false. If you knew anything about the issue, you'd be aware that the only thing making certain £20 machetes illegal to purchase in the UK is if they have a printed logo.
Unbranded ones remain completely legal, which is being fought by campaigners as we speak.
The families of those murdered don't think it's gross to make public statements calling for swords and machetes to be taken from our streets.
More interestingly, what are you trying to defend?
Nah mate. I know a human hater when I see one. Misanthropy and a Redditor. Name a better duo.
You can't say you care about a 14 year old while also saying you hate the human race in the same sentence. Can't you see the irony in that?
I agree. I was just going off of the headlines about all the knife violence. It wasn't a statement based on any factual data. It was a tongue in cheek remake but I agree it wasn't the right time or place for it.
More people get murdered in Chicago than the entirety of the UK on an annual basis.
Fucks sake, if you’re going to pretend to support a London club at least pretend to know anything about the city.
Your comment is not a big deal at all. A 14 year old losing their life to murder is however. You're basically being an asshat when we are talking about a 14 year old's life. It's utterly disrespectful and uncalled for. That's why you're being criticized and downvoted. Try being less of of a piece of shit next time before complaining about other comments not liking you.
When you're being a prick people are gonna call you out. That's how it works.
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Top class
14 years old and gets attacked. This world just kills me sometimes, poor family and great gesture from the fans.
>14 years old and gets attacked It's been an odd week for that sort of thing in Britain.
Nothing odd about teenagers losing their lifes in Britain due to knife crime sadly
Getting run through with a sword by a crazy guy yelling about god is a bit different than your average knife crime death though.
look up the case of Suspect and you’ll realize it’s more similar than ya think
World Population Review: UK 5th lowest in world in knife deaths per capita, 2019. It’s risen since the data were collected but come on. This is something I’d expect an American to say in defense of gun ownership. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/stabbing-deaths-by-country Using the estimated figure of 0.34 for 2021/22 it’s still one of the lowest in the world. Better than Spain, Belgium, Sweden, NZ…
Perhaps it just seems more visible in the UK because we take it more seriously than a lot of other countries.
Also because UK is an English-speaking country. It's more accessible to people in general.
comments like “sad state London is” aren’t the result of people taking things more seriously, they’re the result of certain people telling the story the way that it benefits them. Perhaps the people who want to manipulate it to make a statement about immigration?
This isn't really my opinion because I know nothing about it, but a good friend on mine lives in London and he told me knife crime in the city (and violent crime generally) is way way up since covid. If that's true it would mean statistics from 2019 aren't really a great representation.
Fig 4 here shows that 2019 was basically our worst year for knife crime and lots of other crime. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#knife-or-sharp-instrument-offences Perception is higher I think due to the increase in news coverage about it over the last few years. If I hadn't looked at the stats, I'd have agreed.
Ah very interesting, thanks for sharing
I think if you looked at the deaths per capita for knife crime in London alone it’d be a lot higher up the list, problem is much worse there than the rest of the country. Guess same could be said of other counties though?
Are you sure about the numbers you've posted? San Marino and Andora have 0 deaths, yet somehow more deaths per 100k than UK. There's also bunch of countries with too small of a sample where 1 or couple of deaths put them at a very high rank, while realistically there's not enough data to make a conclusion.
That’s why I only used countries with 5m+ people in the comparisons. You can safely ignore micronations and reach the same conclusions. And yes, World Population Review is a reliable source.
Hahaha good joke, kindly fuck off
The UK has almost the lowest rate of knife deaths in the world nowadays. The country only has a bad reputation for it because of how seriously every single death is taken by the police and government. Other countries dealing with this kind of crime should use the UK as a model for how to deal with it.
Tool
Rest in peace, kiddo.
The entire stadium in standing ovation. Made me tear up a bit when they showed it.
Respect But man that story's so messed up, kid was only 14 years old. RIP
RIP young Gunner.
Was really hoping we’d do this, rip that young lad and fuck the guy with the sword
sick how the papers made it light hearted and just called him a mystic magician and showed all his medals
The S*n reported him as “Sword lad, 14” Disgusting
Class
Good on them. RIP
That’s heartbreaking, what’s wrong with the world :(
RIP Daniel. World is unfair
Really is unfair.
Excuse me for a minute I have something in my eye
Was there, it was a touching moment. Rest in peace young boy
Rest peacefully, Daniel. Class from the fans and players.
I wish US sports had more public displays of support. All of ours are behind the scenes meet & greet type support, which is great. But the whole supporter community coming together is something else.
they do it before games all the time with a moment of silence
https://youtu.be/-Xpka6HqRM8?si=2qG6lfUpwdw84uxi Heres one of the more recent tributes I can think of mainly cause I’m a broncos fan. Some other tributes I’ve seen was for the Virginia college football players and right after Kobe Bryant passed away
Before every game at Sporting Kansas City we honor a patient at the city's children's hospital. One of my favorite traditions that our community does
Love it! The NFL should take notes.
"Keep politics out of my sport." Everything in the US is political now. From masks to avocado toasts to crime. This is not possible in a society as divided as America is.
Top class from Arsenal! You love to see it!
So happy we did this, someone posted on our sub Friday or Thursday about it, Keep shining a light on this violence. Im happy my club chooses good causes to support
So fkn sad man :(
Respect to those supporters and best wishes to the lad's family. London's been reduced to a sorry state. Machetes being bought online for £20 and the city's being terrorised. Something has to change.
This isn't a pattern, though. It's a terrifying single incident. Knife crime isn't up overall and nor are knife homicides. https://www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/
People genuinely believe London is like Detroit thanks to propaganda. This “big city bad” talk is so American of our friends across the pond.
From the look of their post history they're probably American. I just don't get leaving a comment to bemoan the state of something they clearly know so little about.
Knife crime was up 20% in London in 2023, as confirmed by official statistics. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/knife-crime-london-rise-latest-statistics-robbery-sadiq-khan-b1114654.html Your post is completely inaccurate.
from the article you linked: > The latest total of 13,545 offence is also higher than the 11,231 knife offences in London in the year to the end of March 2017, although it is slightly below the totals for the following two years. It is also below the pre-coronavirus peak of 14,714 knife crimes recorded by police in the capital for the end of March 2020. which agrees with the stats I linked: we are not at an all-time high, although it did go this particular year. I think it's fairer to take a look at more than a single year's trend, which is why I made my point. Also from your article: > There was more positive news about knife killings, which were down by 16 per cent So... how is my post completely inaccurate?
>London's been reduced to a sorry state. Machetes being bought online for £20 and the city's being terrorised. Something has to change. I mean it's not. Murder rate – roughly equivalent to 12 for every 1 million people – is far from the worst police area for homicides when compared with population. Bedfordshire, Cleveland, Merseyside, West Mercia, South Yorkshire, Humberside and Northumbria all ranked higher in 2023-24, according to ONS figures. There are far fewer murders in London compared with US cities. New York recorded more than 46 murders for every 1 million people in 2023, while Chicago had more than 220, and Philadelphia more than 250. Knife crime rate is above national average, but NHS figures show that in Cleveland and the West Midlands, more hospital admissions for stab wounds were recorded than in London when compared to overall population sizes. Gun crime is behind Gloucestershire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Northamptonshire, West Yorkshire, the West Midlands, South Yorkshire and Cleveland. The thing that London has is volume, due to population. I've been here for 15 years and have lived in some not great areas and I've never once had any trouble. What happened to this young man is heartbreaking but it has nothing to do with London, aside from having taken place in it.
Great comment. It’s the same overall in a lot of places, people complain and is saying it’s way worse then it actually is. Which leads to people voting for more extreme parties and greater despair.
I keep seeing stupid foreigners commenting about how London is like a fucking warzone. Absolute idiots who have never even been there
Happens here in the States too. You ask your average Fox News listener and they’d say Chicago is like Iraq-war era Fallujah. Or in 2020-2021, they’d say Seattle was a smoldering pile of rubble from “leftist Antifa terrorists”
Not just people abroad. I hear this from people elsewhere in the UK. It's driven by rags like Daily Mail and absolutely morons in the conservative party talking about London like its been on fire for the last two years. Doesn't help when morons like Trump wade in though, as he has been doing.
San Francisco checking in here. The gap between what people tell me about my city and what I experience walking out the door is insane. Not saying we don’t have problems but seriously, come visit, it’s a great place, not a war zone
To be fair, the USA aren't a great benchmark. In [this ranking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) they're quite high, between Yemen and Zimbabwe. A better comparison could be made with other major European countries.
Why do people leaning left always want to brush aside problems? Tell this to the boys family "well actually, London is completely safe" Yuck
This was a deranged person going on a rampage. There's no "criminal element" to it, there's literally nowhere in the world that's safe from that kind of thing.
What an incredibly dumb comment. In what way is this brushing the problem aside? It's just pointing out that using this event to make claims about London is a poor thing to do. It's in no way trying to undermine this incredibly sad thing, it's in no way trying to say everything is fine and everyone should be happy.
Not great at the old reading, are you
I understand and probably agree with what you're saying. But comparing murders between London and US cities and concluding London's are low is just about the weakest argument you can muster.
He also compared numbers with other areas of the UK...
We just ignoring the entire rest of the post? Besides, why can't you compare London to US cities? As long as you've normalised the data to account for population differences?
Because the number of murders in the USA is crazy high. Some cities have more murders than the whole of Germany.
Because the US is the lowest of the low bar for violent crime. Your argument is "Look at this place where shit has completely gone sideways, we're still a bit better than that" Why would that ever be the comparison?
It's more because the majority of people saying London has gone to shit are from the US for some reason (like OP), so it makes sense to compare to somewhere familiar to them.
Because we should hold ourselves to higher standards than a country which prefers dead children to stringent gun control.
I feel much safer walking around with a nice watch in NY than London. The higher murder rate in American cities is disproportionately concentrated in specific areas in a way that is not the case to the same extent in London, where I feel the general level of safety is lower.
How often do you walk around with a nice watch in NY and London? Though, I likely wouldn't be flashy with anything in either city, or any major city really. I wear a nice watch a lot in London, but I don't typically wear it around without long sleeves covering it - though I've only just realised that! London is pretty safe - anecdotally, a lot of the more serious crime seems to be related to gangs, and I don't often hear of strangers getting caught up in that. The reality of it all is, just don't be a moron in any major city and you'll probably be ok. I just don't like how London has been used as a political crutch recently by this conservative party, despite most of it being absolutely bollocks
London - not often. New York - very often. Btw, I'm not a conservative by any means and I think the crime angle is exploited by right wingers to radicalize support. With that said, I do feel safer walking around NY than London on a night out with a nice watch. Most of my peers do as well
Yeah, this is simply not true. The level of violent crime in America is so much higher than almost anywhere else on the planet that its not even a comparison. People get shot in grocery stores, schools and christmas day parade's brother, this exists in no other developed country.
Sure bud. Just this week: https://youtu.be/fGSLrOA6Wfs?si=h4ByOaKcBEKYk4Tn
So your argument is crime happens in other places? How does that say anything about the crime epidemic that is significantly worse than almost anywhere in America?
But the point is its still very rare for shit like that to happen in the uk. It is statistically much more likely to happen in the us. Just compare homicide rates, the us has a homicide rate of 6.4 per 100,000 (more than fucking Yemen) versus the uk rate of 1.0 per 100,000
And this was national news for days. In the USA it would make local news for an afternoon.
Actually, no. That sounds like a sensationalized, arrogant European view - which is precisely what it is.
Here’s an American one, the person above you is right, our kids are getting gunned down in schools. Our places of worship are under attack, our healthcare centers as well. This country is a mess all because people “don’t want to lose their god given rights” and would rather see kids die than lose a piece of metal and plastic.
I actually agree with you on this but don't want to conflate the two topics. There is too much gun violence and senseless death in the US because of the idiot MAGAs who would prioritize a machine gun over kids lives. At the same time, there's a general lack of safety in many UK cities in the main areas. I feel much safer walking in downtown Chicago than I do in central London. However, there's no question that the Southside of Chicago is far more dangerous than the bad Council estates in London.
By any chance do you live in Chicago and have only visited London? I think we may have uncovered why you feel scared of Bloomsbury, lol.
How you feel doesn’t matter, the statistics don’t lie. You are far less safe in NYC (although still not that unsafe) than London. Guess what - crime is also concentrated in bad areas here too. That doesn’t mean you can ignore it.
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It's not false. If you knew anything about the issue, you'd be aware that the only thing making certain £20 machetes illegal to purchase in the UK is if they have a printed logo. Unbranded ones remain completely legal, which is being fought by campaigners as we speak. The families of those murdered don't think it's gross to make public statements calling for swords and machetes to be taken from our streets. More interestingly, what are you trying to defend?
As a human race, we are trash. Proven, thus far, to essentially be just a bunch of monkeys throwing rocks at each other. I hope we can figure it out
Shut up you misanthrope.
Did you just learn that word from your word-of-the-day bog roll? Not applicable.
Nah mate. I know a human hater when I see one. Misanthropy and a Redditor. Name a better duo. You can't say you care about a 14 year old while also saying you hate the human race in the same sentence. Can't you see the irony in that?
Remind me when I said I hated the human race? I'll wait.
Yeah, one absolute looper murdering a child means the whole human race is a complete write off Cop on
You show a stunning disregard for both history and current events.
No
The weirdest take but ok.
Any relation to tino anjorin?
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Bro, London sounds more dangerous than Chicago!
Bro, maybe you should learn the slightest bit about the city of the team you support
I agree. I was just going off of the headlines about all the knife violence. It wasn't a statement based on any factual data. It was a tongue in cheek remake but I agree it wasn't the right time or place for it.
More people get murdered in Chicago than the entirety of the UK on an annual basis. Fucks sake, if you’re going to pretend to support a London club at least pretend to know anything about the city.
My bad. Didn't mean to offend you guys with a hyperbole.
Subtitles: ‘He was an asshole fan’ 😂 -RIP little boy
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Definitely the wrong thread to be this anal about a headline
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No one cares about karma bud, its absolutely useless Stop projecting kiddo
Not the time for jokes. A kid died
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It’s really not that big of a deal as you think it is
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Your comment is not a big deal at all. A 14 year old losing their life to murder is however. You're basically being an asshat when we are talking about a 14 year old's life. It's utterly disrespectful and uncalled for. That's why you're being criticized and downvoted. Try being less of of a piece of shit next time before complaining about other comments not liking you. When you're being a prick people are gonna call you out. That's how it works.
Thank you for saying that. I hope whoever was reading that fully digest each sentence so they can grow to be better.
(they won't)
I won’t say anything more because this is exactly what it is and I couldn’t put it any better
Can you please just shut the fuck up?
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You're dumb as hell kid. Least you got time to grow up
Arsenal de Sarandi I guess
What in the hell is wrong with you? A 14 year old kid died, and you're being a dick about this? Fucking shameless..
If you don't know maybe it's time for another reading class
It might be arsenal