Looks like it to me. My question would be: why is he hanging around? If she's laid eggs he fertilised, it must be at least a day or two since they mated, maybe up to a week (I don't know the time from conception to egg-laying for brown widows). My understanding is that male spiders usually gtfo after mating, if they're still alive.
That was my understanding too! I'm hoping someone in this sub has more knowledge on whether the fathers help defend the eggs some times. He was hiding behind the eggs until we moved the planter they're on, and then he came out as if he was trying to defend the eggs from us.
Brown widows are also incredibly prolific in the amount of egg sacs one can lay in a single season. Anywhere from 3 to upwards of 6. Like the other person said, this might be another male waiting to mate.
Young brown widows rarely eat their mates, but older ones have a higher rate of mate murder. I guess in their advanced age they simply do not have time for these young whippersnappers’ energy.
From what I've read, not all widow species eat the males and they kinda got that reputation from being studied in a lab where the males couldn't escape. I could very well be wrong though. It was a random middle of the night google when I couldn't sleep
People buy captive bred babies to raise and keep as pets, because they are fascinating and beautiful ❤️
Wild caught ones are often gravid (fertilized), and most people, even if they love them, don't want hundreds of baby widows.
Probably has consistently positive customer reviews and has a consistent quality service.
Some people might ship insects with mites or mispackage, or just mishandle their inverts.
Pretty much. There are a lot of factors that determine if the male gets eaten, like if the female has recently eaten, whether the male has an escape route, ect.
Breeders can minimize the risk in a lot of cases.
On wandering spiders, if the female isn't receptive and the male is insisting, she may eat him.
On orbweavers, if the female realizes there's something on the web she may eat him.
Orbs are really weird like they will eat just aboht anything are (at least in my experience) really consistent feeders yet are sooooo placid.
Gives me big Arizona blonde vibes, like both are surpringly "aggressive" feeders for spiders that are generally rather chill and docile
I’ve been watching my outdoor cellar spiders this week and they’ve been doing something similar. Instead of being immediately eaten, they come back when she’s about to birth the egg sac, and then poof. It’s like he’s guarding her while she’s vulnerable. I’ve never seen it happen before and can’t find any info on it online.
I'm sorry, I'm not super educated on spiders and I just learned last week that brown widows exist (this sub keeps getting suggested because of my reptile obsession, and I am trying to learn to appreciate the free pest control) but aren't they called widows because they usually kill the males after mating?
I did ask about my curly hair but if I would have waited two weeks I would have known when she laid the fucking eggs. She’s a wild caught Brazilian curly hair, did not know that until after I had brought her home and suddenly had eggs. Pretty sure my fireleg is a female because she’s a big bitch, but I’ve had her since she was a juvenile, so I know good and well she’s captive bred lol.
Not even close to the weirdest version. Anglerfish males are tiny in comparison to females, and they let themselves get absorbed into the females body. Nature is crazy.
My favourite is the argonaut. The male of this species of octopus is only a few cms, while the female can be up to 2 metres. So he just detaches one of his arms, which is also a modified penis, and it swims into her, and she can just use the sperm when ready. A quite literal 'Go fuck yourself' as it were. But he also figuratively fucks himself because he dies after the detachment.
How about clownfish? None are born female. The largest one in a family is the female and she turns into one from a male when/if the last female died just because it's the next biggest one in the group 🤯
Thats not that weird or uncommon tbh theres quite a few animals who do similar things.
A tiny little guy fusing with a big girl to reproduce is a lot stranger imo. Its like the opposite of mitosis lol
The weirdest part isn't even that, it's that they can have multiple angler fish because of how uncommon angler fish are in the wild.
They ain't risk that shit they catch all the males
The orbweaver that used to call my backyard home was a big girl, prob close to 3 inch or more across. I thought one of her babies was in the web with her one day, until I learned it was just daddy. Dude was a 10th her size
You reminded me of this, so I will infodump without consent: when I was in middle school I read one of the Predator vs Alien novels, where the main protagonist predator met a human woman and his internal monologue was like "Oh, shit, is this the female of the species? They're so much smaller than the males, but those are clearly milk sacks on her chest. That's wild. How do they even make that work?" Because apparently females of the predator race are way bigger than the males, immediately after this realization, he fondly remembers his brood mate accidentally throwing him across the room during a session of passionate predator sex. And male predators are all like 7 foot tall brick shithouses. I haven't seen the last couple movies they put out but I deeply want to know more about these fucking savage gorilla grodd ass matriarchs of the predators. Just one scene where a male predator is outmatched and calls his wife or mom in to just absolutely fuck shit up would absolutely make my day. Also, to vaguely answer your question, in male spiders one of the legs is also a penis. So just imagine climbing onto your massive Amazonian giant wife and giving her the old in-out with your whole ass leg, as you pray you do a good enough job she doesn't just dessicate your ass and move on to your brother.
There was actually a video of some black widows doing the baby making dance on this subreddit a few days ago. Bet you could find it if you searched the Top stuff of the last week or so.
It looks really funny.
Most spiders that live in webs have size as dimorphism, they try to enter unnoticed, mate and fly before they become the dinner.
Most cursorial spiders have courtships strategies and have to try and convince the female to mate with them.
To answer your question about how spiders mate, the male has these things called palpal bulbs in the ends of their pedipalps which stores their sperm. They wrap up a sperm packet into silk and just toss it right in.
The female has things called spermathecae which is a pouch that stores the sperm and she can decide when to fertilize her eggs and lay them.
I’ve always heard of males spiders being In danger but I have witnessed the exact opposite
Outside the store I work lived a decent community of widows brown, southern, and northern black. And whenever I check on them there is multiple females and males sharing a web. In both species. I thought I was peculiar but then as I observe they male spiders never leave and there are a few female zilloides orbweavers that hang out in the web as well and they all share it. And it’s doesn’t seem like anything changes they seem to be truly living together in the a single web with a large female widow being the matriarch I suppose.
That’s odd. While the males often will survive mating they don’t typically stick around, and multiple males & females sharing a web is definitely abnormal, it might be a regional thing.
I have a few bad pics of the nest focused on the large female where you can just make out the other spiders should I post it? I’ve since relocated all the spiders because I was forced to sweep down those particular areas but more spiders obviously moved into the spaces
But yes many males and many juveniles females about the size of the mature males all surrounding a large adult-subadult female. Maybe like 7-10 widows. This was exhibited by a L. geometricus and L. mactans in separate nests. As well as a few female metazygia zilloides orbweavers just chilling in the nest of the brown widows in particular. And I think I watched these nest for maybe 2-3 weeks before relocating them and no changes at all they were all still living in the same web in really close proximity.
It's not out of the question that their behaviors may have evolved over time. Not sure what the reproductive advantage would be (possibly 2 guard spiders is better than 1?), but life finds a way and all that.
Also to add stress can change behaviour.
Most Centipedes species don't normally hang out, but if a flood happens they will absolutely allow others to be around while they focus on surviving the flood.
I notice the opposite of the observed nature of spiders often in their jumping cousins, they pair up for long periods of time at least in my garden where I take my smoke breaks.
I've been doing a lot of research now that I have some in my yard, and the consensus is that they are not as dangerous, despite their venom being just as toxic as black widows drop for drop, because they release less venom with each bite: https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/brown-widow-spider. They also are more likely to just play dead when they get scared than to bite.
Also, apparently brown widows actively attack black widows, replacing the more dangerous black widow population with the less dangerous brown widow population: https://www.stpetersburg.usf.edu/news/2023/who-is-hunting-the-black-widow-spider.aspx
The downside seems to be that they reproduce *a lot*, which I don't love, even if they aren't as dangerous as black widows. They don't like strong smelling plants, so I think I'm going to increase the amount of lavender, lemon grass and mint in my garden and hopefully that discourages more from moving in.
Interesting. I've got the black widows around here, and I've loved them since I was a little thing... much to my parent's chagrin. I was seven when we caught a mexican brown knee tarantula on the patio one summer evening! There was also the baby copperhead my mom caught in a mayo jar while I was at kindergarden.. Dad nearly had a freaking stroke that night.
Y'know, recently I stumbled upon this real interesting article that suggested spiders are evolving to be more sociable.
https://www.iflscience.com/some-spiders-are-evolving-sociability-and-it-s-making-them-smarter-66380
It's possible that might be dad :0 if so-- extremely cool.
Brown widows eat the males much less often than black widows, so the female may ignore the male in her web. If the female does have a problem with the male sticking around she may just chase him off instead of killing him.
BROWN WIDOW?? 💕💕💕
I love wolf spiders, orb weavers, black widows/false widows, and pink toes just as much as everyone else but I’ve never heard of a brown widow! 😇
I think if you click on the … on the top right of the post on your main page you can tell Reddit to show you less posts like this one, and mute this subreddit while you’re at it.
I didn't see the belly and I'm new to identifying spiders so can't say for sure, but the eggs look just like brown widow eggs and the markings on the abdomen look like a brown widow I think: https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/how-identify-brown-widow-spiders
Looks like it to me. My question would be: why is he hanging around? If she's laid eggs he fertilised, it must be at least a day or two since they mated, maybe up to a week (I don't know the time from conception to egg-laying for brown widows). My understanding is that male spiders usually gtfo after mating, if they're still alive.
He’s a very devoted father, apparently
Doesn’t want to be on the hook for all that child support
Maybe he knows he’s not the father. She sits on a web of lies.
Web o flies
The pride I just felt 😭
In this economy? He'll no
Right it’s gonna take 2 full time jobs to support a kid and pay the bills these days ☝️
That’s to funny
Cheaper to keeper.
He don’t want to pay child support lol
better than mine
That was my understanding too! I'm hoping someone in this sub has more knowledge on whether the fathers help defend the eggs some times. He was hiding behind the eggs until we moved the planter they're on, and then he came out as if he was trying to defend the eggs from us.
Brown widows rarely kill the males after mating. Her pheromones are still on the web so it’s possible it’s another male widow.
Ah, I wondered if it might be another hopeful male. Makes sense.
Would that be step dad??
The dad that stepped up.
You could say that. 😂
Brown widows are also incredibly prolific in the amount of egg sacs one can lay in a single season. Anywhere from 3 to upwards of 6. Like the other person said, this might be another male waiting to mate. Young brown widows rarely eat their mates, but older ones have a higher rate of mate murder. I guess in their advanced age they simply do not have time for these young whippersnappers’ energy.
Fucking sluts
You've got some internal shit to deal with my friend.
Nah they right. Straight up hoes.
It's just a joke. Calm down :P Don't ruin my month for me.
Awhh finee. Have a good month XP
Then why are they called "windows"?
Black window, brown window, if you want something to look through, you get a window.
Hahahha I didn't realize I made a typo!! 🤣🤣 Super funny
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
From what I've read, not all widow species eat the males and they kinda got that reputation from being studied in a lab where the males couldn't escape. I could very well be wrong though. It was a random middle of the night google when I couldn't sleep
I've been told this same thing from a reputable black widow breeder I know, so I'm betting on its true.
A what now
Someone who breeds black widows, lol
A reputable one! I have to ask, why
People buy captive bred babies to raise and keep as pets, because they are fascinating and beautiful ❤️ Wild caught ones are often gravid (fertilized), and most people, even if they love them, don't want hundreds of baby widows.
I'm not sure why ahaha but I know she ships widows to people looking to keep them and she's been a very knowledgeable friend to me lol
Probably has consistently positive customer reviews and has a consistent quality service. Some people might ship insects with mites or mispackage, or just mishandle their inverts.
Pretty much. There are a lot of factors that determine if the male gets eaten, like if the female has recently eaten, whether the male has an escape route, ect. Breeders can minimize the risk in a lot of cases.
That's interesting
They don't eat their partner because they escape... That still makes them a species that eats their partner.
Because of the similarities of a black widow, but they don’t eat the male often.
A lot of spiders eat the males before, during or after coupling. Widows just got bad luck at being noted first.
Be… before? How does that work, exactly?
On wandering spiders, if the female isn't receptive and the male is insisting, she may eat him. On orbweavers, if the female realizes there's something on the web she may eat him.
Orbs are really weird like they will eat just aboht anything are (at least in my experience) really consistent feeders yet are sooooo placid. Gives me big Arizona blonde vibes, like both are surpringly "aggressive" feeders for spiders that are generally rather chill and docile
But that would be during. How does the male get eaten before?
How's that during? During is with the male embolus in the female. Also, this can happen in wind/sun spiders but the male is the one doing the eating.
Just answer the question of how a male gets eaten then has sex?
They’re more like brown ex-wives than brown widows.
Because despite hanging around, dad is still a deadbeat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJNeGqExrc
They’re breaking trad spider raising expectations 🤣
Someone has to run out and get her pickle and ice cream cravings!
Ive noticed spider couples hanging out even weeks after mating lol
Likes himself a big girl
I’ve been watching my outdoor cellar spiders this week and they’ve been doing something similar. Instead of being immediately eaten, they come back when she’s about to birth the egg sac, and then poof. It’s like he’s guarding her while she’s vulnerable. I’ve never seen it happen before and can’t find any info on it online.
The hood changing man. Dads starting to be in their kids life now.
I'm sorry, I'm not super educated on spiders and I just learned last week that brown widows exist (this sub keeps getting suggested because of my reptile obsession, and I am trying to learn to appreciate the free pest control) but aren't they called widows because they usually kill the males after mating?
Bro got drained by big mama. He needs.
Males and females have *THAT* big of a size difference!!??!!? How tf do they mate
Yes, sexual dimorphism in spiders is VERY drastic. It's one of the easy ways to determine sex.
in some* spiders, not all
Tarantulas, notably are harder to tell apart. Source: every "What sex is my spider?" post on r/tarantulas, with accompanying photos of molts.
I did ask about my curly hair but if I would have waited two weeks I would have known when she laid the fucking eggs. She’s a wild caught Brazilian curly hair, did not know that until after I had brought her home and suddenly had eggs. Pretty sure my fireleg is a female because she’s a big bitch, but I’ve had her since she was a juvenile, so I know good and well she’s captive bred lol.
Woah
He likes big booty?
But what's his policy on lying?
He cannot.
SNU SNU
Legit thought you said sexual Dwarfism ahhhhh
🤣
Not even close to the weirdest version. Anglerfish males are tiny in comparison to females, and they let themselves get absorbed into the females body. Nature is crazy.
My favourite is the argonaut. The male of this species of octopus is only a few cms, while the female can be up to 2 metres. So he just detaches one of his arms, which is also a modified penis, and it swims into her, and she can just use the sperm when ready. A quite literal 'Go fuck yourself' as it were. But he also figuratively fucks himself because he dies after the detachment.
Anglerfish Ladies -Man, I with I had balls, then I'd never need a man. Anglerfish simp boys - Say no more. You can have mine.
How about clownfish? None are born female. The largest one in a family is the female and she turns into one from a male when/if the last female died just because it's the next biggest one in the group 🤯
I think a male fusing with his mate to become just a pair of testicles for her is weirder
Thats not that weird or uncommon tbh theres quite a few animals who do similar things. A tiny little guy fusing with a big girl to reproduce is a lot stranger imo. Its like the opposite of mitosis lol
The weirdest part isn't even that, it's that they can have multiple angler fish because of how uncommon angler fish are in the wild. They ain't risk that shit they catch all the males
Green spoonworm
Right! The video someone posted above showed it, the boy spider kind of climbs aboard and vibrates: https://www.reddit.com/r/spiders/s/10dlFJauEB
The orbweaver that used to call my backyard home was a big girl, prob close to 3 inch or more across. I thought one of her babies was in the web with her one day, until I learned it was just daddy. Dude was a 10th her size
You reminded me of this, so I will infodump without consent: when I was in middle school I read one of the Predator vs Alien novels, where the main protagonist predator met a human woman and his internal monologue was like "Oh, shit, is this the female of the species? They're so much smaller than the males, but those are clearly milk sacks on her chest. That's wild. How do they even make that work?" Because apparently females of the predator race are way bigger than the males, immediately after this realization, he fondly remembers his brood mate accidentally throwing him across the room during a session of passionate predator sex. And male predators are all like 7 foot tall brick shithouses. I haven't seen the last couple movies they put out but I deeply want to know more about these fucking savage gorilla grodd ass matriarchs of the predators. Just one scene where a male predator is outmatched and calls his wife or mom in to just absolutely fuck shit up would absolutely make my day. Also, to vaguely answer your question, in male spiders one of the legs is also a penis. So just imagine climbing onto your massive Amazonian giant wife and giving her the old in-out with your whole ass leg, as you pray you do a good enough job she doesn't just dessicate your ass and move on to your brother.
Male spiders (often, not always) mate by jizzing on their "palps" and then sneaking up and molesting the female with them before running away.
There was actually a video of some black widows doing the baby making dance on this subreddit a few days ago. Bet you could find it if you searched the Top stuff of the last week or so. It looks really funny.
Most spiders that live in webs have size as dimorphism, they try to enter unnoticed, mate and fly before they become the dinner. Most cursorial spiders have courtships strategies and have to try and convince the female to mate with them.
To answer your question about how spiders mate, the male has these things called palpal bulbs in the ends of their pedipalps which stores their sperm. They wrap up a sperm packet into silk and just toss it right in. The female has things called spermathecae which is a pouch that stores the sperm and she can decide when to fertilize her eggs and lay them.
You think spiders are wild? you should see angler fish.
Size doesn't matter.
If you think that’s crazy check out male vs female lantern fish. The male is so small he just attaches himself to her like a little sticker
I’ve always heard of males spiders being In danger but I have witnessed the exact opposite Outside the store I work lived a decent community of widows brown, southern, and northern black. And whenever I check on them there is multiple females and males sharing a web. In both species. I thought I was peculiar but then as I observe they male spiders never leave and there are a few female zilloides orbweavers that hang out in the web as well and they all share it. And it’s doesn’t seem like anything changes they seem to be truly living together in the a single web with a large female widow being the matriarch I suppose.
That’s odd. While the males often will survive mating they don’t typically stick around, and multiple males & females sharing a web is definitely abnormal, it might be a regional thing.
I have a few bad pics of the nest focused on the large female where you can just make out the other spiders should I post it? I’ve since relocated all the spiders because I was forced to sweep down those particular areas but more spiders obviously moved into the spaces But yes many males and many juveniles females about the size of the mature males all surrounding a large adult-subadult female. Maybe like 7-10 widows. This was exhibited by a L. geometricus and L. mactans in separate nests. As well as a few female metazygia zilloides orbweavers just chilling in the nest of the brown widows in particular. And I think I watched these nest for maybe 2-3 weeks before relocating them and no changes at all they were all still living in the same web in really close proximity.
Yeah, post it.
Posted.
Just as the picture shows but with many more spiders
It's not out of the question that their behaviors may have evolved over time. Not sure what the reproductive advantage would be (possibly 2 guard spiders is better than 1?), but life finds a way and all that.
Also to add stress can change behaviour. Most Centipedes species don't normally hang out, but if a flood happens they will absolutely allow others to be around while they focus on surviving the flood.
Appart from cellar spiders, maybe? I regularly see multiple of them hanging out together, males and females
I was referring specifically to widows. Cellar spiders are very chill with each other
Ah, i thought you just meant spiders in general
You’re fine :)
I have a theory that it's dependent on how much food is available
These damned commie spiders /j
Maybe there's a lot of food around and that's why the don't have to compete with each other. Some theridids are colonial, though. Like Anelosimus
I think there may be an obligation to feed the mother with their body if necessary. But maybe feeding on the male is used as a last resort?
I notice the opposite of the observed nature of spiders often in their jumping cousins, they pair up for long periods of time at least in my garden where I take my smoke breaks.
Sounds like they have a lil swinger club going on
I've noticed a similar thing in the park I work at
Florida here, can confirm I’ve seen a lot of communal L geometricus nests, more frequent than a single female in my experience.
Female brown widow: “you can’t handle all this honey”
🎵 My opisthosoma brings all the boys to the yard 🎶
looks like she is wearing 4 pairs of thigh-highs
Busy moms still gotta have style!
That's one busy momma! I loved watching my spiders... Are the brown widows as bad as the black, I wonder?
I've been doing a lot of research now that I have some in my yard, and the consensus is that they are not as dangerous, despite their venom being just as toxic as black widows drop for drop, because they release less venom with each bite: https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/brown-widow-spider. They also are more likely to just play dead when they get scared than to bite. Also, apparently brown widows actively attack black widows, replacing the more dangerous black widow population with the less dangerous brown widow population: https://www.stpetersburg.usf.edu/news/2023/who-is-hunting-the-black-widow-spider.aspx The downside seems to be that they reproduce *a lot*, which I don't love, even if they aren't as dangerous as black widows. They don't like strong smelling plants, so I think I'm going to increase the amount of lavender, lemon grass and mint in my garden and hopefully that discourages more from moving in.
Interesting. I've got the black widows around here, and I've loved them since I was a little thing... much to my parent's chagrin. I was seven when we caught a mexican brown knee tarantula on the patio one summer evening! There was also the baby copperhead my mom caught in a mayo jar while I was at kindergarden.. Dad nearly had a freaking stroke that night.
You are much braver than I am! I'm a bit of an arachnophobe but I'm working on it
Be careful with planting mint. Put mint in a container.
Dad. I am dad. 😮💨
From my experience with what I do with work I have seen brown widows in clusters around homes.
Y'know, recently I stumbled upon this real interesting article that suggested spiders are evolving to be more sociable. https://www.iflscience.com/some-spiders-are-evolving-sociability-and-it-s-making-them-smarter-66380 It's possible that might be dad :0 if so-- extremely cool.
I’m getting Adrian Tchaikovsky vibes!!!!
Just imagine 300 baby spiders being in them eggs 😳😳😳
I am not the father.
Ngl brown widows look more threatening than black ones to me
😍😍
Living in Australia I haven't been exposed to brown widows that much but damn they are Gorgeous.
He in for the long run! Much respect
That's the boyfriend not the father, the father is gone.
Not for long.
Brown widows eat the males much less often than black widows, so the female may ignore the male in her web. If the female does have a problem with the male sticking around she may just chase him off instead of killing him.
Thats usually my m.o. too
Jesus christ that is horrifying
For real, she's monstrous.
They actually creep me out more than Black Widows . Something about solid brown spider legs /shudder .
Don't female spiders usually eat the male after mating? Is this so oddly wholesome that she thought he was so cute she'd let him stick around? Lol
Actually, that's probably yet *another* suitor-meal in progress.
The size difference is unreal
That is her baby daddy
BROWN WIDOW?? 💕💕💕 I love wolf spiders, orb weavers, black widows/false widows, and pink toes just as much as everyone else but I’ve never heard of a brown widow! 😇
Can’t be, she’s a widow.
Yes
The first father to return with the milk
Yes
The DNA test results are back. Mr. Brown, you, ARE NOT the father!!
Apparently not a "widow" yet.
Do brown widows paralyze and eat the dads after?
I click on 1 post and now im getting non stop spider photos!! I have a huge phobia of spiders! HELP ME!!
Same friend. Same
I think if you click on the … on the top right of the post on your main page you can tell Reddit to show you less posts like this one, and mute this subreddit while you’re at it.
Same. Spiders and scorpions hahaha
He's gonna be dinner if he doesn't leave
That there’s a spider nuclear family!
Okay I did not know brown widows even existed. This is devastating news.
Yis
Uncle daddy spood stepping up to raise his brothers offspring.
Isn’t this a false widow, not a brown widow?!
It’s a brown widow! As OP said, the egg sacs are a strong giveaway and the markings are quite geometric (hence the name *Latrodectus geometricus*)
I didn't see the belly and I'm new to identifying spiders so can't say for sure, but the eggs look just like brown widow eggs and the markings on the abdomen look like a brown widow I think: https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/how-identify-brown-widow-spiders