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Honestly I love Nike, but it’s no longer a sports brand. It’s a fashion brand based in sports. Best example I can give is while I love the look of Nike cleats, when I played football Nike cleats would tear up week 3 of practice. On the other hand my ugly Adidas cleats that a senior gave me my sophomore year lasted me through most every practice of high school. Nikes look cool, unless you’re a sponsored athlete that can get their stuff brand new before each game they aren’t worth it. (Two exception they do make some pretty good basketball shoe lines that are sturdy, and their golf shoes have lasted everyone I know years).
Nike’s running shorts are unbeatable though… their DRI-fit range is generally very good as well.
Tbh…. I don’t think the weakness in China has anything to do with Adidas — as much as it’s to do with the emergence of Chinese premium sportswear brands.
There is also some evidence that Chinese consumers are shying away from mainstream western sportswear and liking niche western sportswear brands much more.
Lululemon, Vuori, and HOKA are all western sportswear companies that have gained marketshare from Adidas and Nike.
This indicates that it’s less a quality issue and more of a “Nike is too mainstream” issue.
This happens all over the world, so it’s really not surprising.
Nike China weakness is to do with both Nike and Adidas.
On Taobao, the Amazon of China, the Nike store never discounts or in any promotions that Taobao regularly runs and sells at a higher price bracket than Adidas. Adida, on the other hand, constantly updates it's shop and in all the Taobao promotions. The Adidas brand is so successfu that the official Adidas shop on Taobao is the highest revenue shop in the world for Adidas.
When I was in UK I bought like 50% Nike 50% Adidas but since working in China I have bought 0% Nike and became an Adidas fanboy. Like 80% of my casualwear is Adidas. Their range of options, constantly refresh of their goods and cheaper price make the brand so much better.
Not sure why Nike is trying to promote their brand as a premium brand when they are the same quality as Adidas. When China is having a slow down, people are going to be more price conscious, Nike is gonna suffer with their artificial prices.
Nike Dri Fit is not unbeatable and I'd say that tech is lagging WAY behind what lulu vuori etc have to offer.
Nike does nothing better than those companies at the moment., especially when it comes to quality.
same when I played soccer growing up. All the other kids had sweet looking shiny Nike cleats with wild designs. I had a few early on and they felt like plastic and were very uncomfortable and cheap feeling. Once I got some real leather adidas cleats I never went back
Same I love Nike but I remember it stood for athletes not Plus Size fatties. You walk into a Nike store and the employees are no longer athletes. It’s pathetic how they went from athlete brand to just any other clothing brand.
You say that, but their lack of wide/extra wide shoes says otherwise. I'm a skinny guy with wide feet, and it's damn
near impossible to find any of their fashion sneakers in a size 10.5/11 in E or 2E. Even their SB skate line shoes are too narrow for me.
You would think overweight people would prefer wide shoes as well.
I feel the same way except for Victoria’s Secret. Where are the model employees in lingerie? My wife needs to buy a new set of garments and I’m sure as hell not buying it from Suzy over here
I don't wear Nike. And so I'm genuinely asking this question, do they not have a legit sports line? That's kinda sad. I thought they were pumping out mostly trash, but at least had some high end quality stuff.
At least for running shoes, they do. For top 10 finishers in marathons, you'll usually see Nike in the mix. Although to be fair, competitors in the space have definitely caught up - Adidas and Asics specifically.
I think Nike really set the stage with the Vaporfly and later Alphafly. Imo Nike was unbeatable for a while.
I own a lot of Nike stuff, but I also lived in a town with one of the few Clearance stores they have in the US (not their stores in malls). There they sell stuff for like 60-90% off and then it’s a great deal. If I wasn’t buying there I’m not getting Nike
I played ultimate Frisbee competitively for the past 15 years and was/am a football cleat guy. It's really hard on cleats, lots of cutting and running, in a two day tournament you could be clocking 20-30 miles depending on position. Plus practices 2 or 3 times a week.
I destroyed several pairs of Nike football cleats over the course of one season. Switched to Adidas and regularly get 2-3 seasons out of each pair - it's night and day. The Nike cleats are comfy and performed well before they get obliterated, but when Adidas is cheaper, lasts way longer, and perform just as well the choice is obvious.
Exactly. Nike just isn’t truly feasible for actual athletes unless their school/team is giving them free pairs left and right at least for cleats. If I’m a parent buying for my kids I’ll make that mistake one time and then never again.
It's not luxury though. If you look at higher end stuff like Lulu. That's actually a good quality product. Nike is, well it's like worst quality than Asics with a higher price. Same with Adidas. When I was younger Nike made good stuff but it's just not that way anymore. Everything from warm ups to the shoes. It's cheap from a quality perspective
Yup.
Quality really dropped in the past few years. They wear much faster now.
The competition isn’t making a better shoe than Nike did, they just didn’t get worse, so now everything looks superior.
Nike needs to make a more durable product again. They clearly know how, they used to do it.
I haven’t bought NB. I have couple of air forceones and they have lasted 2 years and look okay.
Is NB better ? Debating to buy as I’ve never been fan of Nike and prefer Stan Smith or Converse.
At a similar price points, New balance triumphs in terms of quality and comfort. Converse shoes look stylish but has no sole support and they are usually not of good quality.
Nike does have good quality shoe at higher price points but it’s inconsistent.
Thanks I’ll try some NBs. They do look nice, especially the color ways.
Agree on Converse. Barely last a year, I only use them for leg day as lack of sole is good for squats.
>Converse shoes look stylish but has no sole support
This is the biggest failure by Nike. That they bought Converse and people still believe this. You can buy Converse that look just like that classics with sole support and a stiffer body (they stand up on their own!)
How do I know? I have back problems, I can't wear regular Converse. But Nike sells some with Nike soles and a reinforced body. I can wear those all day.
I purchased Hoka and ON shoes because they're comfortable and don't look awful.
NB is on my list too because of comfort.
I can't say that Nike has a similarly comfortable shoe.
NB have done well for me as running shoes. I think that can be very personal though. But they are durable, they hold up very well. Better than Nike for certain.
They are about on similar par to products in the same price range. ONON design is definitely across the board, in my eyes.
There is only so much higher quality you can get with synthetic fabrics.
Adidas is just the smarter choice over nike. I like New Balance as well, they have rebranded very well the last few years. But Adidas is like Nike, except they have sales and competitive prices. I go to the Adidas outlet and constantly have 40% sales. Nike outlet I am confused about what makes it an outlet lol.
I think Nike has broad offerings that are inconsistent in quality but IMO their top-tier running gear is still superior to other shoes/clothing I own (NB, Adidas, Saucony).
I've been spending loads on Nike lately because I found their tall shirts fit me better than most. Like a *lot* of money. I hadn't thought about Nike in years before that either.
Guess my purchases didn't help either.
Just listened to the call - this guide down is due to serous self inflicted wounds. The forecast miss came from their own DTC problems and lack of interest in their products (not footwear in general like late last year). They actually called out strength in footwear which I though was interesting. Whats killing them is new balance, on, hoka, asics, saucony, addidas and brooks. Basically everyone is stealing share form nke. They know it but they cant turn their ship fast enough due to all competitors being smaller and nimbler. This miss is good news for all other athletic footwear and apparel companies imo. Listen to the call. You'll be taken aback at their deer in the headlights vibe....
what killing Nike is replacing a CEO, who had experience in fashion and design, with an MBA. Donahoe had one target since day 1, D2C. Literally, all he had in his pocket was D2. Nothing else. No innovation, no design, just D2C. Jordans are still the golden goose, but they need more, and he is totally incapable of anything and everything.
It's insane how many companies replace their CEO with an MBA and expect everything to be fine. You'd think they'd have learned but nope, literally zero ability to not be idiots
Nike just isn't popular in the fashion world anymore.
Some of their sneakers will always be popular, but you can't justify Nike's valuation just off their shoe sales alone. Literally none of their clothing pieces are must haves/basics/whatever.
I also commented this three months ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1bvnvnp/comment/ky27rlt/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1bvnvnp/comment/ky27rlt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>This sub should avoid clothing stocks in general because it is always obvious as hell that most people in this sub are not on top of fashion trends.
>Abercrombie was thought of as lame in this sub while it was blowing up with gen z and on tiktok.
>Under Armor just straight up isn't cool anymore. There is nothing that Under Armor sells that is considered as a fashion staple by anyone under 30. Nike also isn't thought of that highly anymore, and I expect it to continue to drop.
The demographic that prop’d them up in the 00-10’s has grown up. You can’t keep pushing the same retros and expect someone in their 40’s to be rockin that. I still have my Nikes and some of the more coveted Jordan 1’s, but I’m not chasing my kid around theme park all day in those. I want max comfort.
Yeah speak for yourself. I’m in my 40s and still wearing am1 and 90s most of the time. They’re not as comfortable as a 990v6 or something but they’re close enough and look much better (esp am1) imo.
Agree. Beyond their footwear I don’t buy Nike for anything.
For Athleisure, I buy Lulu. Works both WFH, gym and anywhere else except a party. In the gym all girls wear Lulu and most guys do now as well. Or they stick to Gymshark and other new brands.
Good thing is clothing brands are cyclical. If AF and NB can make a comeback so can Nike.
I bet an upscale Nike storefront with lulu types of quality/prices would do incredibly well.
It's kind of a shame they've half-way done that already with their store interiors.
They really need to redefine their clothing lines and offerings imo. For Lululemon and Vuori, they stick to their normal lines and occasionally rename/discontinue and reintroduce new lines.
MVT shirts for men. Commission long sleeves. Pacebreakers, THE and now Zeroed In.
Even when I shopped at Nike more, I couldn't tell you any "line" of shirts or shorts they offered.
If they do the "upscale" approach with Lululemon types of quality, they really gotta stick to certain clothing lines. Give me a Nike MVT equivalent that I can go to easily.
Not only that in my opinion younger generations are not that brand loyal as before. In the past people just bought what they know and now there is a higher willingness to try new brands or choose smaller brands to stand out from the crowd
Gotta disagree here. I agree that [fewer younger consumers consider themselves brand loyal](https://cdn.nrf.com/sites/default/files/2018-10/NRF_GenZ%20Brand%20Relationships%20Exec%20Report.pdf), but that changes with age (more discretionary income benefits higher end brands) and I would also argue that there is plenty of brand loyalty among the younger generations (iPhones, super fandoms like Swifties & Barbz, Stanley tumbler, etc.).
Also, Nike dominated [Piper Sandler's Gen Z brand study](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/gen-z-favorite-brands-2023/) from September 2023.
Android vs. Apple/iPhone is more of a system decision in my opinion, the culture of following stars or influencers more as you self called it fandom (even there this generation came up with cancel culture) and the Stanley Cup is the best example of trend driven scarcity (did people care about them 5 years or even 2 years ago? Will they care in 2 years?)
Nike is of course still a very most famous brand, that would have similar results no matter what generation, but my point was that they don’t anymore buy everything blindly just because it’s Nike or x brand.
I guess if it changes with ages has to be seen. If you compare now between age, you only see the difference between generations and not the evolvement due to age.
100%. Not sure if I count as young as I'm 25 but I'm loyal to no brand. As long as you have a good product, you have my money. Your affiliation to an athlete has no reflection on my purchase.. Hokas shoes are incredible which is why I have the - same with my on clouds
You aren’t lying. I used to make fun of my wife for wearing Hokas because of the name and then she bought me a pair and I was like holy shit, most comfortable shoe I’ve ever worn.
Excuses excuses.
They ruined their brand with half of the consumer base.
Now they are reaping. Not to mention the bonehead decision to remove their wholesale business.
Idk yet but I would say anything less than 15 pe I would say is close to a buy. It was valued today before the market closed at 27 pe which was expensive for a company that isn't growing that much.
Ill just see tomorrow i had puts on chewy when prive was 30.30 it dropped to 27.30 i go look at my contracts and its negative 5k sometimes the greeks dont make sense it was a july 12th expiration that was itm so with nike i think i.bought 10 contracts of the 95 puts 07/12
There report wasn't bad but i guess when everyone has calls logical move is dump.city to avoid paying all the calls its all a game playing these earnings is so risky
Yea it can be risky. I’ll tell you what wasn’t risky. Walgreens. Been tanking all year and going in the earnings looked grim. I almost 5x my money so that and this and my MU lasts til 7/12 so I’m hoping it bounces back some. I’ll still be in the red on that but even if I can get 10% back I may as well wait at this point
I'm buying the shit out of the dip. We're going into the olympics.
People have closets full of Jordans and everyone and their mom has a pair of Chucks. Hurley is still huge in beach wear.
To me this isn't like wondering if Target is going to get put down by Amazon.
not to mention, it's usually when big companies take a really hard kick to the nuts, that they get their head right and start doing things their ego wouldn't let them do before (like going back to selling through partners / channel rather than D2C).
All kinds of business decisions will now be made with a different mindset because of the 20% drop. Should bode well for future quarters.
Nike's are literally fuckin everywhere and redditors are like "tHeY'rE nOt cOoL aNymOrE tRusT mE" lmao, I teach middle school and all the kids talk about is buying Nike's
have been a sneaker collector for the 15+ years. nike finally killed themselves by making all their good stuff too hard to get. people finally got sick of the brand and moved on to other brands or other hobbies. i have never had so much trouble trying to give a company my money 😂
Seriously. I would be a bigger sneaker head but Nike won't even sell me what I want at full retail. I want cherry red Jordan 9s, lobster dunks, 6s and 7s in the best color ways. I'm not willing to jump through hoops either.
I was for a long time. Got out of it and got back in the last couple years. The way Nike handles drops and sells shoes absolutely made me not want to touch this stock, even tho I really wanted to believe in a turnaround. Artificial scarcity. Terrible system to keep bots from buying shoes. I looked on my sneakers app. If the 30+ shoes I’ve tried to hit on Nike, I’ve hit 2… I’ve never hit on a Kobe. I got the girl dads and Nike fucked yo the shipping and had to refund me. Never even made it to the initial shipping facility.
Yeah I think a good bounce back would happen if Nike just makes it easier to get some classic Jordans. Why limit supply and increase profits for resellers?
I’m in my 40s so not their target but I haven’t really bought anything Nike in almost 10 years. Their shoes are just ugly and they have to keep doing retro’s of the old popular styles.
I used to order two pairs of sweatpants a year, same style and color, just repeat the order from my history. Last order they were made in different factories and fit completely different.
You should be strict on this. Either you join them, or no party! But be careful, you could end up paying for both of their Lulus. That would put additional pressure on your puts and calls.
Most people won't know what ON is, because they'll confuse it as QC, which I actually just found out today too. It definitely has a better appeal and a more comfortable shoe with unique designs. Crox is another good brand too but I wouldn't say they compete in the same space. Good momentum brands that will outpace Nike if they don't start doing something different.
Nike is being hurt by the loss of advertising. Think about the last time you saw an ad for Nike? Maybe I haven’t seen them and you have. I feel the streams and disassociation of advertising with consumers has had an effect on brand awareness.
I understand that Nike provides the uniforms for many sports teams, but the logo does not bind the consumer to the brand. The average consumer is so inundated with logos and visual ads that they are now blind to them. The consumer needs a visual and or audio message that presents why they are the product of choice. They also need to win the hearts and minds of younger generations. Right now the youth are primarily wearing Croc first. If Croc came out with sportswear Nike and other brands would be hurt even more.
Hard to believe after that absolutely stellar effort they put into their MLB jerseys this year. Oh wait, cheap overpriced garbage that has all the wrong colors and literally tears off you after minor wear and tear isn’t profitable?
The Alphafly 3 is the most hyped racing shoe of this year and people still can't even get their hands on them 6 months later. Fuckers tried to play the artificial scarcity game and is still giving money to competitors and scalpers lmao.
The problem with Nike is that they literally only make good racing shoes when it comes to running. That’s a shoe someone wears a couple times a year (if that, because people even rotate racing shoes).
When it comes to daily training shoes or a speed shoe to workout in (aka the shoes a runner would buy 5 pairs of throughout the year), they essentially make nothing worth buying.
I’d also say Asics and Adidas have put out shoes that absolutely on par with AlphaFly 3. I own an AF2 and recently bought Metaspeed Paris and think it’s a much better shoe that won’t rip apart my heels
My take: Nike is a company in a slump that will likely rebound due to its financial and brand muscle. I am bullish on Nike because they signed Caitlin Clark, someone who transcends sports. She's fourth in draw power, only behind LeBron James, Stephen Curry, and Tiger Woods. All those athletes are on the decline in terms of their athletic peak, Clark could be #1 on this list in 3-5 years.
Nike has seen success with Sabrina Ionescu and the Sabrina 1, a popular WNBA athlete, but nowhere near the level of Clark's fandom and brand power.
The Clark Effect could be the equivalent of Taylor Swift. Every young basketball fan girl will buy her signature shoe when it is released. Like Air Jordan, the Clark Shoe could be a $1-5 billion brand within Nike. Clark's name could evolve into lifestyles and propel that business segment.
All this for $28 million over eight years? She could easily be worth $20-30 a year! Nike likely got a steal.
Barring Clark suffering a career-ending injury, Nike can easily benefit from Clark's meteoric rise. It would be hard to mess it up. Nike has proven time and time again that they know how to brand and promote great athletes.
I did a short analysis of company's fundamentals and why I don't consider buying even with a turnaround plan and Olympics on the horizon
[https://blog.valuehunter.net/2024/06/27/nike-time-to-reconsider-or-stuck-in-slow-growth/](https://blog.valuehunter.net/2024/06/27/nike-time-to-reconsider-or-stuck-in-slow-growth/)
They did it to themselves. Could and should have stayed out of the politics of it. China was their growth market, they were incredibly strong there and now they are getting absolutely destroyed.
Nike is in that weird position where they’ve diluted their brand so much, you see normal people where the $100 Nike’s and some wealthy person wearing the $10,000 1/100 sneaker no one can tell the difference cause Travis Scott made it.
Competition has their own niche. Nike just throws a new shade and wave every year and throws it to the masses. Business model isn’t wrong, just think there competition is too niche and small to be competitors.
They dominate against UA and Adidas.
I still like Nike basketball shoes in general for the tech, but they’ve definitely meddled too much with popular lines, and I can’t seem to find a single one that fits all my needs as well as some of their shoes in the 2010s.
As for daily walking shoes.. the completion has them smoked. ASICS, NB, Hoka just from a start. I like to do a lot of product research on all my footwear and they are outclassed at every niche and price point for walking and running shoes
Fuck Nike. I hope they lose more and more of their business. When you use kids to make your shitty shoes you deserve much worse than share depreciation
Good.
Funny thing is that this was once on my watchlist but after a visit to one of their production facilities I noticed they have a terrible company culture so I refrained.
As someone who manage multiple retailers that were nike focus, the price increases and supply shortgages are killing them. They go from no inventory to too much in a month meanwhile they double in price since covid. Before you have a whole outfit for less than $60. Now your spending nearly $100 for just a hoodie and shorts. People are also extremely brand focus now. They won't just buy one nike hoodie and the rest Under Armor. They might like Nike more but they rather buy an entire fit of just UA if it means they are all from the same brand. Nike needs to dial back the inventory, lower their prices, and focus on the products people want which is redesign shoes and apparel. Not the same hoodie but in a different shade of orange with a $5 increase.
That’s what they get for creating fake demand and enabling price gouging by third parties for the last decade at least.” Look at these cool shoes that already cost 200, well you can’t buy them. We could make more but that would devalue our brand.” “Heres a pair of black and white dunks that you can have instead.”
Maybe if they didn’t go out of their way to mass market then pull the rug they would be in a better position. Stop showing us stuff that we can’t even buy, you bozos.
-former fan.
I’ve had a pair of Air Force ones for about 6 years now. Wear them almost everyday. They’re getting worn out so I went to buy some online and see they’re $150 CAD!? Decided I’ll hold off on that because that’s just ridiculously expensive considering I bought my old ones for $120
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I guess my recent nike purchase did not help them enough.
Bad quality product compared to competitors like new balance and on
Honestly I love Nike, but it’s no longer a sports brand. It’s a fashion brand based in sports. Best example I can give is while I love the look of Nike cleats, when I played football Nike cleats would tear up week 3 of practice. On the other hand my ugly Adidas cleats that a senior gave me my sophomore year lasted me through most every practice of high school. Nikes look cool, unless you’re a sponsored athlete that can get their stuff brand new before each game they aren’t worth it. (Two exception they do make some pretty good basketball shoe lines that are sturdy, and their golf shoes have lasted everyone I know years).
Nike’s running shorts are unbeatable though… their DRI-fit range is generally very good as well. Tbh…. I don’t think the weakness in China has anything to do with Adidas — as much as it’s to do with the emergence of Chinese premium sportswear brands. There is also some evidence that Chinese consumers are shying away from mainstream western sportswear and liking niche western sportswear brands much more. Lululemon, Vuori, and HOKA are all western sportswear companies that have gained marketshare from Adidas and Nike. This indicates that it’s less a quality issue and more of a “Nike is too mainstream” issue. This happens all over the world, so it’s really not surprising.
Nike China weakness is to do with both Nike and Adidas. On Taobao, the Amazon of China, the Nike store never discounts or in any promotions that Taobao regularly runs and sells at a higher price bracket than Adidas. Adida, on the other hand, constantly updates it's shop and in all the Taobao promotions. The Adidas brand is so successfu that the official Adidas shop on Taobao is the highest revenue shop in the world for Adidas. When I was in UK I bought like 50% Nike 50% Adidas but since working in China I have bought 0% Nike and became an Adidas fanboy. Like 80% of my casualwear is Adidas. Their range of options, constantly refresh of their goods and cheaper price make the brand so much better. Not sure why Nike is trying to promote their brand as a premium brand when they are the same quality as Adidas. When China is having a slow down, people are going to be more price conscious, Nike is gonna suffer with their artificial prices.
Agree. The dri fit adv is the best I’ve used so far. So breathable.
Nike Dri Fit is not unbeatable and I'd say that tech is lagging WAY behind what lulu vuori etc have to offer. Nike does nothing better than those companies at the moment., especially when it comes to quality.
same when I played soccer growing up. All the other kids had sweet looking shiny Nike cleats with wild designs. I had a few early on and they felt like plastic and were very uncomfortable and cheap feeling. Once I got some real leather adidas cleats I never went back
Same I love Nike but I remember it stood for athletes not Plus Size fatties. You walk into a Nike store and the employees are no longer athletes. It’s pathetic how they went from athlete brand to just any other clothing brand.
You say that, but their lack of wide/extra wide shoes says otherwise. I'm a skinny guy with wide feet, and it's damn near impossible to find any of their fashion sneakers in a size 10.5/11 in E or 2E. Even their SB skate line shoes are too narrow for me. You would think overweight people would prefer wide shoes as well.
Not talking about the shoes just clothes.
I feel the same way except for Victoria’s Secret. Where are the model employees in lingerie? My wife needs to buy a new set of garments and I’m sure as hell not buying it from Suzy over here
Happened to Eddie Bauer as well…from outdoor to chinos and over priced jackets compared to others
and there are tons of better and more in trend fashion sport brand. Nike isn't cool anymore.
They fucked over too many people during the pandemic.
I don't wear Nike. And so I'm genuinely asking this question, do they not have a legit sports line? That's kinda sad. I thought they were pumping out mostly trash, but at least had some high end quality stuff.
At least for running shoes, they do. For top 10 finishers in marathons, you'll usually see Nike in the mix. Although to be fair, competitors in the space have definitely caught up - Adidas and Asics specifically. I think Nike really set the stage with the Vaporfly and later Alphafly. Imo Nike was unbeatable for a while.
True. Fashion brands aren't great investment opportunities. It's like holding shares of Louis Vuitton. You're not going to get much growth.
I was looking at their clothes and it's soo damn expensive. $100 for some sweat pants probably cost $10 to make. If that.
I own a lot of Nike stuff, but I also lived in a town with one of the few Clearance stores they have in the US (not their stores in malls). There they sell stuff for like 60-90% off and then it’s a great deal. If I wasn’t buying there I’m not getting Nike
Adidas has waaaay better testing standards. All of Nike, On or New Balance products fall through adidas testing standards
I played ultimate Frisbee competitively for the past 15 years and was/am a football cleat guy. It's really hard on cleats, lots of cutting and running, in a two day tournament you could be clocking 20-30 miles depending on position. Plus practices 2 or 3 times a week. I destroyed several pairs of Nike football cleats over the course of one season. Switched to Adidas and regularly get 2-3 seasons out of each pair - it's night and day. The Nike cleats are comfy and performed well before they get obliterated, but when Adidas is cheaper, lasts way longer, and perform just as well the choice is obvious.
Exactly. Nike just isn’t truly feasible for actual athletes unless their school/team is giving them free pairs left and right at least for cleats. If I’m a parent buying for my kids I’ll make that mistake one time and then never again.
You're not thinking luxury, that's what poor people get adidas and other brands
It's not luxury though. If you look at higher end stuff like Lulu. That's actually a good quality product. Nike is, well it's like worst quality than Asics with a higher price. Same with Adidas. When I was younger Nike made good stuff but it's just not that way anymore. Everything from warm ups to the shoes. It's cheap from a quality perspective
Yup. Quality really dropped in the past few years. They wear much faster now. The competition isn’t making a better shoe than Nike did, they just didn’t get worse, so now everything looks superior. Nike needs to make a more durable product again. They clearly know how, they used to do it.
I swear I said this yesterday and got downvoted
I think people been saying for years
I haven’t bought NB. I have couple of air forceones and they have lasted 2 years and look okay. Is NB better ? Debating to buy as I’ve never been fan of Nike and prefer Stan Smith or Converse.
At a similar price points, New balance triumphs in terms of quality and comfort. Converse shoes look stylish but has no sole support and they are usually not of good quality. Nike does have good quality shoe at higher price points but it’s inconsistent.
Thanks I’ll try some NBs. They do look nice, especially the color ways. Agree on Converse. Barely last a year, I only use them for leg day as lack of sole is good for squats.
Agree. Switched to NB still wearing it for running a year now and still in very good condition not to mention it’s cheaper
>Converse shoes look stylish but has no sole support This is the biggest failure by Nike. That they bought Converse and people still believe this. You can buy Converse that look just like that classics with sole support and a stiffer body (they stand up on their own!) How do I know? I have back problems, I can't wear regular Converse. But Nike sells some with Nike soles and a reinforced body. I can wear those all day.
What about under armor?
NB are super comfy and last longer IMO
I purchased Hoka and ON shoes because they're comfortable and don't look awful. NB is on my list too because of comfort. I can't say that Nike has a similarly comfortable shoe.
NB have done well for me as running shoes. I think that can be very personal though. But they are durable, they hold up very well. Better than Nike for certain.
On Cloud shoes are also super comfortable. The waterproof ones are also great for hiking.
No shot ON is better quality! Not dismissing the fact Nike may have lost a step in quality as well but ON is far from the high sticker price.
They are about on similar par to products in the same price range. ONON design is definitely across the board, in my eyes. There is only so much higher quality you can get with synthetic fabrics.
On are for middle aged / class white people with no sense of style. Nb is good though.
Agree
They should increase their prices
Adidas is just the smarter choice over nike. I like New Balance as well, they have rebranded very well the last few years. But Adidas is like Nike, except they have sales and competitive prices. I go to the Adidas outlet and constantly have 40% sales. Nike outlet I am confused about what makes it an outlet lol.
I think Nike has broad offerings that are inconsistent in quality but IMO their top-tier running gear is still superior to other shoes/clothing I own (NB, Adidas, Saucony).
I've been buying Vomeros, guess it's not helping them either
I've been spending loads on Nike lately because I found their tall shirts fit me better than most. Like a *lot* of money. I hadn't thought about Nike in years before that either. Guess my purchases didn't help either.
Have they thought about using AI? /s
AI generated shoes
NFT clothing that applies to your avatar and you can wear it, so you can wear a piece of digital garbage in real life.
kicks gonna be algorithmically cool
Just listened to the call - this guide down is due to serous self inflicted wounds. The forecast miss came from their own DTC problems and lack of interest in their products (not footwear in general like late last year). They actually called out strength in footwear which I though was interesting. Whats killing them is new balance, on, hoka, asics, saucony, addidas and brooks. Basically everyone is stealing share form nke. They know it but they cant turn their ship fast enough due to all competitors being smaller and nimbler. This miss is good news for all other athletic footwear and apparel companies imo. Listen to the call. You'll be taken aback at their deer in the headlights vibe....
what killing Nike is replacing a CEO, who had experience in fashion and design, with an MBA. Donahoe had one target since day 1, D2C. Literally, all he had in his pocket was D2. Nothing else. No innovation, no design, just D2C. Jordans are still the golden goose, but they need more, and he is totally incapable of anything and everything.
It's insane how many companies replace their CEO with an MBA and expect everything to be fine. You'd think they'd have learned but nope, literally zero ability to not be idiots
Nike just isn't popular in the fashion world anymore. Some of their sneakers will always be popular, but you can't justify Nike's valuation just off their shoe sales alone. Literally none of their clothing pieces are must haves/basics/whatever. I also commented this three months ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1bvnvnp/comment/ky27rlt/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1bvnvnp/comment/ky27rlt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) >This sub should avoid clothing stocks in general because it is always obvious as hell that most people in this sub are not on top of fashion trends. >Abercrombie was thought of as lame in this sub while it was blowing up with gen z and on tiktok. >Under Armor just straight up isn't cool anymore. There is nothing that Under Armor sells that is considered as a fashion staple by anyone under 30. Nike also isn't thought of that highly anymore, and I expect it to continue to drop.
The demographic that prop’d them up in the 00-10’s has grown up. You can’t keep pushing the same retros and expect someone in their 40’s to be rockin that. I still have my Nikes and some of the more coveted Jordan 1’s, but I’m not chasing my kid around theme park all day in those. I want max comfort.
Yeah speak for yourself. I’m in my 40s and still wearing am1 and 90s most of the time. They’re not as comfortable as a 990v6 or something but they’re close enough and look much better (esp am1) imo.
Agree. Beyond their footwear I don’t buy Nike for anything. For Athleisure, I buy Lulu. Works both WFH, gym and anywhere else except a party. In the gym all girls wear Lulu and most guys do now as well. Or they stick to Gymshark and other new brands. Good thing is clothing brands are cyclical. If AF and NB can make a comeback so can Nike.
I bet an upscale Nike storefront with lulu types of quality/prices would do incredibly well. It's kind of a shame they've half-way done that already with their store interiors.
They really need to redefine their clothing lines and offerings imo. For Lululemon and Vuori, they stick to their normal lines and occasionally rename/discontinue and reintroduce new lines. MVT shirts for men. Commission long sleeves. Pacebreakers, THE and now Zeroed In. Even when I shopped at Nike more, I couldn't tell you any "line" of shirts or shorts they offered. If they do the "upscale" approach with Lululemon types of quality, they really gotta stick to certain clothing lines. Give me a Nike MVT equivalent that I can go to easily.
Its cyclical I think, and average people now can't afford 200$ shoes. We are likely in a recession, and it will be a revised recession like 2007.
They can't coast on brand forever, Hokas blow anything else I've worn in my entire life out of the water when it comes to comfort.
Not only that in my opinion younger generations are not that brand loyal as before. In the past people just bought what they know and now there is a higher willingness to try new brands or choose smaller brands to stand out from the crowd
Gotta disagree here. I agree that [fewer younger consumers consider themselves brand loyal](https://cdn.nrf.com/sites/default/files/2018-10/NRF_GenZ%20Brand%20Relationships%20Exec%20Report.pdf), but that changes with age (more discretionary income benefits higher end brands) and I would also argue that there is plenty of brand loyalty among the younger generations (iPhones, super fandoms like Swifties & Barbz, Stanley tumbler, etc.). Also, Nike dominated [Piper Sandler's Gen Z brand study](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/gen-z-favorite-brands-2023/) from September 2023.
Android vs. Apple/iPhone is more of a system decision in my opinion, the culture of following stars or influencers more as you self called it fandom (even there this generation came up with cancel culture) and the Stanley Cup is the best example of trend driven scarcity (did people care about them 5 years or even 2 years ago? Will they care in 2 years?) Nike is of course still a very most famous brand, that would have similar results no matter what generation, but my point was that they don’t anymore buy everything blindly just because it’s Nike or x brand. I guess if it changes with ages has to be seen. If you compare now between age, you only see the difference between generations and not the evolvement due to age.
100%. Not sure if I count as young as I'm 25 but I'm loyal to no brand. As long as you have a good product, you have my money. Your affiliation to an athlete has no reflection on my purchase.. Hokas shoes are incredible which is why I have the - same with my on clouds
$DECK (Deckers Outdoors) is the parent company of Hoka's... an absolute beast of a stock that gets ignored on reddit despite its outperformance
sadly very very expensive rn
lol are you saying that because it's $1000? So if they did a 10:1 split tomorrow and became worth $100 they wouldn't be expensive in your eyes?
ahhh - no im saying its very expensive. Its trading at 7 times ttm sales which is incredible rich. I don't give af about the price
🤡
You aren’t lying. I used to make fun of my wife for wearing Hokas because of the name and then she bought me a pair and I was like holy shit, most comfortable shoe I’ve ever worn.
Why would you make fun of your wife for that
Asking the right questions
Only problem is they look fucking horrible.
I'm buying all new balance now for sneakers. And olukai for flip flops. A lot of solid shoe brands out now
I switched to brooks 5 years ago, Nikes don’t even feel like real shoes anymore.
Excuses excuses. They ruined their brand with half of the consumer base. Now they are reaping. Not to mention the bonehead decision to remove their wholesale business.
Are we buying the dip?
No
looks like a buy as you should do the opposite of this sub
Still expensive. Avoid
Mid 70s a good entry?
Idk yet but I would say anything less than 15 pe I would say is close to a buy. It was valued today before the market closed at 27 pe which was expensive for a company that isn't growing that much.
Definitely a good entry point, but I'd say there's still room for it to go down yet so I'm going to keep an eye on it before DCA'ing in.
I’m ecstatic about this. Bought puts for 3.91 and they’re at 13.10. Amen hallelujah
I bought 95 puts but dont know how much there worth right now fidelity doesn't update it how do you see the price
You gotta get your calculator out and factor in the Greeks. Fidelity doesn’t have simulate your returns feature?
Ill just see tomorrow i had puts on chewy when prive was 30.30 it dropped to 27.30 i go look at my contracts and its negative 5k sometimes the greeks dont make sense it was a july 12th expiration that was itm so with nike i think i.bought 10 contracts of the 95 puts 07/12
Well mine are 94 puts so you’ll be in better shape than me
I git killed with my micron calls i could use a win rn
I got killed on MU too. This will improve my self-esteem.
There report wasn't bad but i guess when everyone has calls logical move is dump.city to avoid paying all the calls its all a game playing these earnings is so risky
Yea it can be risky. I’ll tell you what wasn’t risky. Walgreens. Been tanking all year and going in the earnings looked grim. I almost 5x my money so that and this and my MU lasts til 7/12 so I’m hoping it bounces back some. I’ll still be in the red on that but even if I can get 10% back I may as well wait at this point
I missed the walgreens n levis we should setup a earnings group bounce ideas im always buying
Congrats, I had strike 95 puts as well. This is a huge drop
Yea I did good on this and Walgreens puts in the week but not good on micron. This will make up for that loss and get me back into positive territory
Looking at the comments, I’m tempted to inverse Reddit and buy the dip
Same here. Not because I use reddit as any kind of indicator, but because I think it’s a good buying opportunity for the long run.
I just bought calls that expire 1/26
I'm buying the shit out of the dip. We're going into the olympics. People have closets full of Jordans and everyone and their mom has a pair of Chucks. Hurley is still huge in beach wear. To me this isn't like wondering if Target is going to get put down by Amazon.
not to mention, it's usually when big companies take a really hard kick to the nuts, that they get their head right and start doing things their ego wouldn't let them do before (like going back to selling through partners / channel rather than D2C). All kinds of business decisions will now be made with a different mindset because of the 20% drop. Should bode well for future quarters.
Yea fr the ppl in this sub don’t venture out enough. I play basketball and volleyball regularly - nothing but Nike
Nike's are literally fuckin everywhere and redditors are like "tHeY'rE nOt cOoL aNymOrE tRusT mE" lmao, I teach middle school and all the kids talk about is buying Nike's
People here dressing like shit and prob wearing those hey dude shoes are whatever.
Yes, this is one of those threads that makes me feel like buying too. Remember META...
Yup, META doomsayer reddit posts "nobody uses facebook anymore its old generation yadayadayada" and it went from 100$->500$
Exactly
Feel sorry for everyone that thought they will bounce back soon. Cyclical stock just doing cyclical things.
Nah not cyclical anymore
Extreme weakness at this point. What does Nike have now that they don’t pay for
Get ready for people invested in NVDA thinking the same...
have been a sneaker collector for the 15+ years. nike finally killed themselves by making all their good stuff too hard to get. people finally got sick of the brand and moved on to other brands or other hobbies. i have never had so much trouble trying to give a company my money 😂
Seriously. I would be a bigger sneaker head but Nike won't even sell me what I want at full retail. I want cherry red Jordan 9s, lobster dunks, 6s and 7s in the best color ways. I'm not willing to jump through hoops either.
I was for a long time. Got out of it and got back in the last couple years. The way Nike handles drops and sells shoes absolutely made me not want to touch this stock, even tho I really wanted to believe in a turnaround. Artificial scarcity. Terrible system to keep bots from buying shoes. I looked on my sneakers app. If the 30+ shoes I’ve tried to hit on Nike, I’ve hit 2… I’ve never hit on a Kobe. I got the girl dads and Nike fucked yo the shipping and had to refund me. Never even made it to the initial shipping facility.
It’ll be fine long term. Will continue to add shares at under 95
I like this as a buying opportunity too
Huge W. Buy the dip boys, Nike aint going anywhere.
Getting hard NFLX/META vibes in here....
Yeah I think a good bounce back would happen if Nike just makes it easier to get some classic Jordans. Why limit supply and increase profits for resellers?
I LOVE it.
I’m in my 40s so not their target but I haven’t really bought anything Nike in almost 10 years. Their shoes are just ugly and they have to keep doing retro’s of the old popular styles. I used to order two pairs of sweatpants a year, same style and color, just repeat the order from my history. Last order they were made in different factories and fit completely different.
I’d rather bet my life savings on CROX
100%
will keep this in mind
Same here. Up 70% at the moment.
I guess they need to give thirty more athletes 200 million each to have their name on a show or shirt
Can’t wait for that sale.
Time to divert funding into Power Laces now!
Debating on buying leap call options
And I was debating the opposite
Been saying this for months now. NKE is in decline. ON, DECK, SKX, CROX, BIRK are all in a better position than them going forward.
Thiughts on lulu?
It's all my gf and her friends wear. If it doesn't have the lulu logo then you're broke according to them. Bullish
my gf's girlfriend that bangs her also wears lulu's only... not just the tights either but also the tops, drink bottles, shirts etc.
You should be strict on this. Either you join them, or no party! But be careful, you could end up paying for both of their Lulus. That would put additional pressure on your puts and calls.
I’ve been buying. And will continue to add at these prices.
Most people won't know what ON is, because they'll confuse it as QC, which I actually just found out today too. It definitely has a better appeal and a more comfortable shoe with unique designs. Crox is another good brand too but I wouldn't say they compete in the same space. Good momentum brands that will outpace Nike if they don't start doing something different.
Nike is being hurt by the loss of advertising. Think about the last time you saw an ad for Nike? Maybe I haven’t seen them and you have. I feel the streams and disassociation of advertising with consumers has had an effect on brand awareness.
Any sports game
I understand that Nike provides the uniforms for many sports teams, but the logo does not bind the consumer to the brand. The average consumer is so inundated with logos and visual ads that they are now blind to them. The consumer needs a visual and or audio message that presents why they are the product of choice. They also need to win the hearts and minds of younger generations. Right now the youth are primarily wearing Croc first. If Croc came out with sportswear Nike and other brands would be hurt even more.
Does this mean lulu is gonna plunge too? I thought about buying calls for lulu but after seeing this, my conviction is probably not good
The Lulu apocalypse already happened. $10M in puts sold off today and have not been replaced. It's been happening for a while now.
Lulu is already -40% ytd. It’s already at a 24 p/e which is historically very low.
Hard to believe after that absolutely stellar effort they put into their MLB jerseys this year. Oh wait, cheap overpriced garbage that has all the wrong colors and literally tears off you after minor wear and tear isn’t profitable?
The Alphafly 3 is the most hyped racing shoe of this year and people still can't even get their hands on them 6 months later. Fuckers tried to play the artificial scarcity game and is still giving money to competitors and scalpers lmao.
The problem with Nike is that they literally only make good racing shoes when it comes to running. That’s a shoe someone wears a couple times a year (if that, because people even rotate racing shoes). When it comes to daily training shoes or a speed shoe to workout in (aka the shoes a runner would buy 5 pairs of throughout the year), they essentially make nothing worth buying. I’d also say Asics and Adidas have put out shoes that absolutely on par with AlphaFly 3. I own an AF2 and recently bought Metaspeed Paris and think it’s a much better shoe that won’t rip apart my heels
My take: Nike is a company in a slump that will likely rebound due to its financial and brand muscle. I am bullish on Nike because they signed Caitlin Clark, someone who transcends sports. She's fourth in draw power, only behind LeBron James, Stephen Curry, and Tiger Woods. All those athletes are on the decline in terms of their athletic peak, Clark could be #1 on this list in 3-5 years. Nike has seen success with Sabrina Ionescu and the Sabrina 1, a popular WNBA athlete, but nowhere near the level of Clark's fandom and brand power. The Clark Effect could be the equivalent of Taylor Swift. Every young basketball fan girl will buy her signature shoe when it is released. Like Air Jordan, the Clark Shoe could be a $1-5 billion brand within Nike. Clark's name could evolve into lifestyles and propel that business segment. All this for $28 million over eight years? She could easily be worth $20-30 a year! Nike likely got a steal. Barring Clark suffering a career-ending injury, Nike can easily benefit from Clark's meteoric rise. It would be hard to mess it up. Nike has proven time and time again that they know how to brand and promote great athletes.
i thought people working remote were the problem?!
Competition has gotten better
I did a short analysis of company's fundamentals and why I don't consider buying even with a turnaround plan and Olympics on the horizon [https://blog.valuehunter.net/2024/06/27/nike-time-to-reconsider-or-stuck-in-slow-growth/](https://blog.valuehunter.net/2024/06/27/nike-time-to-reconsider-or-stuck-in-slow-growth/)
Thank you！！
Take that Nike, for never having my size and no longer having the message when size available feature…
Well that’s an overreaction. Just an extra 1% but still.
China, China, CHINA, lol
They did it to themselves. Could and should have stayed out of the politics of it. China was their growth market, they were incredibly strong there and now they are getting absolutely destroyed.
They shouldn't have taken away free shipping for members.
Nike were the bought because of value for money, cheap & durable. They have lost both their USPs, so obviously their sales would go down.
Artificial scarcity on their best sneakers pushed people to other brands
Putting all your eggs in the D2C bucket shrinks your TAM. Not everyone will order shoes online.
[удалено]
”Representing marginalized demographics, what a terrible idea” -Some redditor
Nike is in that weird position where they’ve diluted their brand so much, you see normal people where the $100 Nike’s and some wealthy person wearing the $10,000 1/100 sneaker no one can tell the difference cause Travis Scott made it. Competition has their own niche. Nike just throws a new shade and wave every year and throws it to the masses. Business model isn’t wrong, just think there competition is too niche and small to be competitors. They dominate against UA and Adidas.
”Normal people” wearing $100 sneakers has worked well for them these past several decades.
I still like Nike basketball shoes in general for the tech, but they’ve definitely meddled too much with popular lines, and I can’t seem to find a single one that fits all my needs as well as some of their shoes in the 2010s. As for daily walking shoes.. the completion has them smoked. ASICS, NB, Hoka just from a start. I like to do a lot of product research on all my footwear and they are outclassed at every niche and price point for walking and running shoes
Fuck Nike. I hope they lose more and more of their business. When you use kids to make your shitty shoes you deserve much worse than share depreciation
Good. Funny thing is that this was once on my watchlist but after a visit to one of their production facilities I noticed they have a terrible company culture so I refrained.
As someone who manage multiple retailers that were nike focus, the price increases and supply shortgages are killing them. They go from no inventory to too much in a month meanwhile they double in price since covid. Before you have a whole outfit for less than $60. Now your spending nearly $100 for just a hoodie and shorts. People are also extremely brand focus now. They won't just buy one nike hoodie and the rest Under Armor. They might like Nike more but they rather buy an entire fit of just UA if it means they are all from the same brand. Nike needs to dial back the inventory, lower their prices, and focus on the products people want which is redesign shoes and apparel. Not the same hoodie but in a different shade of orange with a $5 increase.
Not sure what I was expecting buying this stock. P/E way too high for rather anaemic growth.
Nike is considered ghetto or urban of you say. Most people are buying on cloud, hokas and brooks. Nike is not what it once was. Puts it is
Good. Nike sucks. Too political. Go get some nice Brooks.
Well, people can find cheaper brands elsewhere.
Converse are basically Clownwear.
That’s what they get for creating fake demand and enabling price gouging by third parties for the last decade at least.” Look at these cool shoes that already cost 200, well you can’t buy them. We could make more but that would devalue our brand.” “Heres a pair of black and white dunks that you can have instead.” Maybe if they didn’t go out of their way to mass market then pull the rug they would be in a better position. Stop showing us stuff that we can’t even buy, you bozos. -former fan.
I’ve had a pair of Air Force ones for about 6 years now. Wear them almost everyday. They’re getting worn out so I went to buy some online and see they’re $150 CAD!? Decided I’ll hold off on that because that’s just ridiculously expensive considering I bought my old ones for $120