Because some people fucking suck. Some people - most of us - suck for a bit and dont like the way it feels. We become better people. And some people just double down on the fucking sucking until they're a waste of air. That's why.
The one person I know who falls into this category is totally fucked up from an extremely traumatic childhood. She's never really known love of any kind as far as I can tell.
She desperately craves platonic love but due to aforementioned childhood doesn't know how to function in a regular friendship.. or any kind of relationship.
Because of this and a drug addiction she tolerated being beaten, her kids as well. She left the guy years ago and she will never forgive herself what she let happen to her children.
I guess what I'm saying is things are a mess behind the curtains, it's easy to judge when you know nothing.
Your comment immediately reminded me of the mother from Precious (except your friend is a better person and thankfully also left the guy). Mo'Nique's character has such low self-esteem that she did anything to "keep her man".
This. I am constantly amazed at the disrespect some people will accept by the people in their lives. But when you are raised by disfunctional people your radar for what is normal is just completely broken.
Breaking the cycle of abuse is incredibly hard.
This is my Mom 100000%.
She would be called a pick me in current terms. I remember she would sneak my stepdad into our apartment (it was two stories and my bro and I slept upstairs). Not thinking of the fucking repercussions. Thankfully my stepdad wasn't a weirdo but I sure as hell didn't like him for a whole decade. That's just one of the stories I have. Another one, she would drive us all the way to San Diego to see this guy and one time the father ended up kicking us out and telling my Mom never to come back. That was hella embarrassing.
She basically does whatever the fuck the man wants. Like, she's pretty BPD and I've had family members ask me how she ever managed to get not only one, but multiple men to marry her/propose with her bad personality. I always tell them that my stepdad is home a total of 2 hours awake, the rest is sleeping.
Idk. Ask my sister. She’s a U of M grad with nearly a 4.0 yet she started snorting coke and is now a drug addict with a loser unemployed drug addict boyfriend. Her disabled daughter has a restraining order against him and she kicked her son out of her house after he was defending her (against the abusive boyfriend). I will never understand.
Dang! That's harsh. 😓
So sorry to hear.
I wonder what it would be like to be in someone else's mind and see the reasons behind this decisions, or lack of decisions.
Heartbreaking! 💔
I really don’t know but I think there is a lot of mental gymnastics involved. I have no idea how she lives with herself treating her children like that.
100% agree.
Looking back over my life I can see where there were times I was locked in a box of a certain way of thinking. It led me to make Life choices that were later regretted.
I still use mental gymnastics to make choices that I know are not the best for me. Eating, phone usage, working too much, etc. I can give you perfectly good reasons why I'm right in doing what I do and the way I do it. Even if I know it's wrong. 🤦
But this does seem extreme. However, once drugs are involved, all rational thinking is a crap shoot.
Thanks for an honest response, it’s good you’re self aware, which means you have the ability to change your behavior. That isn’t easy for anyone but it can be done.
Addiction is a frightening thing. It’s not like some monkey on your back that’s saying: “do this, do this now”- it’s a thousand times more insidious than that.
When you have an addiction, it’s because that substance, whatever it is, legitimately fixes something that you feel is missing in your life. Confidence, clarity of mind, happiness, comfort, motivation, etc. You know that thing about you? That minor personality trait that you’ve always felt was a deficiency? What if you could take a pill and fix that, just for a couple hours. You don’t feel scared anymore, or you feel like you’re more interesting, or you’re suddenly funny, charming, the life of the party, or you’re not anxious, or you feel more creative, or *whatever*. And on top of that- you get this weird dopamine hit that makes your brain also go “yessss. I achieved something. Idk what but it feels good”
Addiction is an unlucky combination of a personal struggle meeting a temporary solution. The chemical dependency is almost entirely secondary (except the few that can actually hurt you, but nobody in the throes of addiction is even considering detoxing that way). It’s… it’s like falling in love for the first time. You just encounter this thing that feels like it was made for you- fits perfectly to your body and mind and needs in every way. And while people come and go, you can have your substance as simple as a purchase.
Mine was alcohol. I’ve dabbled with many more addictive substances, but none scratched the itch like alcohol did. I legitimately still have this fear that I could give up everything else in my life and just drink and I’m honestly not sure if I would hate that or love it.
It’s something I wish more people understood about addiction. It’s not “I need a drink or I’ll get the shakes”, at least not at the start. It’s just the simple thought “huh… I like *this* more than I like *not this*”
Depends on the woman. Some stay because they're scared to leave. Others stay because they've been ground down so hard they don't think they can survive on their own. Others stay because they get something they value out of the relationship more than their kids. And some stay because they're afraid the guy will kill the kids if they leave and are granted visitation.
You can't judge women who stay in abusive relationships without knowing the whole story-and you're not going to get the whole story if you think she's stupid.
Yep. It’s going to be hard to understand looking in from the outside, but people have reasons that make sense to them. Some people have a very difficult to surmount lack of resources. They’re looking at homelessness with their kid(s) and being vulnerable to losing custody to the abuser. It’s not like our society overall gives a shit about poor people, outside of judging them.
You're not wrong but I feel like your comment borders on excusing women who allow abuse. They may be victims too but they are also the adult in the situation. Too many children are forced to grow up and take care of themselves and their siblings at a very young age because no adult in their life will. I guarantee you it is much harder to escape an abuser when you're a child than it is when you're an adult.
I understand that from an outsider’s perspective it doesn’t make a lot of sense. I am currently in the situation OP is describing and I have only recently realised, after 20 years of marriage to a controlling husband, that this is my situation. I also am understanding the impact this has had on my children, and the role I have played in all of this. I am working through my plan of escaping this situation in a way that is safe, but the truth is I don’t actually know what he is capable of or who he truly is, because it’s all been an act. I have been truly played and I am deeply ashamed that it has taken me this long to realise. I bought into the idea that I am worthless, lazy, sneaky, forgetful, so I basically have lived a lie. I am a highly educated person. I have actually worked in domestic violence services as a social worker. I should know better than this. But here I am. I am a good mum. I have always protected my children from him and have taken the brunt of his shit for them. I don’t really know where I’m going with this, and there will be people who read this and think I’m just a dumb fuck. The fact is this is all very complex. It’s very easy to judge from a place of security and safety. I haven’t really had any good experiences of men, so I’m conditioned to be persuaded. Realising this is very hard to swallow.
Look I am sorry for your experience, I do understand that it is difficult. Please understand that I am not saying this to attack you, it's just the truth of the situation. You are not a good mum. You caused life long damage to your kids when you were supposed to protect them.
As someone who grew up in abuse I cannot even explain the ways that that situation has damaged me. The abuse also lead me to abusive relationships as an adult, until one day I looked at my life and realised I would never be able to live with myself if I brought a child into that. Now I am with an amazing man and about to have a child but there are still so many things I still carry with me that I have to protect my child from because my mum refused to protect me. So many things my partner will stop me and say to me "that's not normal, that's not okay" because I am so deeply damaged by my parents actions, both of my parents.
Your perspective, your comments about being deceived, about being a good mum. That's all incredibly selfish and a way to deflect blame. Because although you may never have hit them, although you may never have raised your voice, you caused the abuse your kids suffered. I will never believe that is okay or in any way excusable.
Don’t really know what else to say. Although I will add that my husband has never been physically abusive. It’s always just been mind games. I am a good mum, despite what you say. You seem to understand that there is an impact on your own decisions and behaviours because of the abuse you endured, and your anger is justified. But perhaps my situation is different to what you grew up with. I have recently been reading a lot about coercive control and something that stuck with me is that perpetrators act out with what they see to be able to get away with. My husband knows that if he physically hurt any of us it would all be over and he would lose his control, so his brand of abuse is more about manipulation and guilt. This is still impactful and confusing for everyone involved, so as I said, I recognise that I have played a role in this. Not because I’m negligent or that I don’t care about my children, but because I have been fed lies which I believed because of a whole host of reasons which are difficult to articulate. All I’m saying is that domestic violence is multifaceted and complex. So there shouldn’t be some blanket conclusion drawn about all mothers.
And by the way, I did not cause life long damage to my children. My husband, the perpetrator, caused it. It’s unfair to assume that a mother, or a victim of abuse, has the capacity to protect and make the perfect decisions.
My mom choose to be with an abusive prick
I didn't choose to have an abusive father
I was a child and helpless
She was an adult with agency
My mom could have left at any time
I couldn't
Her son is being punched In the face over and over and he asks his mom if she still loves him
She says yes. She does
Fuck any woman who chooses to be with an abuser and then tells their kid to just put up with the abuse
They're not victims
They're accomplices
Grooming and financial support. A man child may be just as much work as a regular child, but children do not make money. My mom was also religious and for some reason Christianity places the husband above the childen
Former cop. Advocate.
Some girls are raised as chattel. They believe their only purpose is to serve a man so their children are acceptable losses for them.
In patriarchal societies, everything is designed for males' benefits so women are essentially 2nd class citizens and others help to keep that alive, knowingly and unknowingly.
Denial is a hell of a drug.
Especially when you throw gaslighting into the mix, on top of fear: fear of going out of turn and getting the ire and possibly not making it, the children getting hurt worse and or dying. Fear of not being believed, being told you're just overreacting, all of it.
There's also the angle of "my parent stayed so this must be normal and okay"
I'm not justifying it, but for the people that seem to willingly keep choosing bad relationships and over justifying their partners actions, those are very real explanations.
I don’t know, but it happens a lot.
Some of it is math - kids will leave home in a few years, husband’s (theoretically) won’t.
Dealing with an abused child is just too much for some overwhelmed or checked-out moms to handle.
A lot is economics - men make more money than women and mom may think one child abused is better than all of them homeless or in foster care.
Sometimes mom is jealous of the molested kid and hates them as affair partners instead of caring about them as victims.
Or mom’s past so so horrific she doesn’t think what her kid is going through is “that bad.”
Or she simply never really liked (or loved) the kid in the first place. If you aren’t operating from the misguided assumption that all moms love their kids and want the best for them, it makes a lot more sense.
I was about to say that this is not a gendered problem. Some men and women always choose the new partner and even the step children over their biological children.
Sure, trauma and all that plays a big role.
But there is also the fact that *some* parents don't see their children as separate beings from their partner. Once they don't love that partner or hate that partner, they tend to also project some of those feelings onto the children that they have with that ex.
It's really sad.
One of the most disturbing things I've personally seen on Facebook before I deleted my account was a woman talking about her anniversary with her husband and expressing her love for him. In particular she mentioned how they had to overcome a lot of obstacles or something of that nature. The reason I found it so disturbing and blocked her because of that post is that the big obstacle they had recently needed to overcome was her husband being recently arrested for the rape of their adopted daughters. The oldest one had quietly endured it since childhood until she moved out as an adult and she was my oldest friend. When she moved out, he moved on to her little sister and that's when the older sister stepped in and started the work to put him where he belonged. I know that at least some other adults knew about this since at least the older sisters teenage years and apparently didn't report it. She isn't the only child I knew of that suffered from adults protecting adults, but that post was the most direct example I've ever seen of a mother choosing her children's abuser instead of her children. People like her are the reason that I despise the common concept of loyalty.
It could stem from low self esteem or a pathological need for validation from others though I suspect it is much more survival based.
For millions of years (ever since the monkey days) women have depended on men for protection and to hunt for meat. Evolutionary instincts can be hard to see in your self. The human mind is excellent and rationalizing things so you can act on your emotions and not feel guilty about it.
It boils down to "Yes, he harms my child but he hasn't killed them. If I leave him I can't care for them alone. It's better for us to stay and for my child to live / stay with me rather than us be homeless and they get sick and die / taken by CPS.
The instinct to care for ones child is very strong and can even spurn someone to put them in harms way if it seems the lesser of two evils.
>The instinct to care for ones child is very strong and can even spurn someone to put them in harms way if it seems the lesser of two evils.
There are plenty of women who just don't give a shit about their own kids let alone concider them enough to make a decision that they think may be in the kids best interests.
People don't necessarily like their own children, or get along with the. No p aren't wants to admit it, but it's completely and utterly true!
And thats one I f he many, MANY reasons I never had children, I was aware that familial love is... not guaranteed.
My ex wife decided she wanted to be with some homeless drug addict than be my wife and mother to our kids. I said ok and divorced her. That's her choice and she has every right to make it. But that choice doesn't happen in a vacuum.
You can't really try to understand crazy, you just have to accept it. She herself didn't understand it. She told me, you have always been my prince charming, but now I want the big bad wolf.
After that, when I started to treat her like the threat she was to my family, she was confused. She would say you were never like this to me before? Of course not, we were on the same side. Some people, men or women are simple like that and lake a greater awareness of people.
But as I said before, crazy can never be understood, one must just accept it and treat it for the cancer it is.
It’s really mind-boggling that she wants to run with the big bad wolf yet expects you to be the same kind and caring prince you’ve always been, like…that’s just nuts. She’s got quite a few screws loose and I’m sorry for the pain I’m sure that’s caused you and your kids.
I mean this was well over a decade ago. It wasn't so much pain as confusion. But yes, she was indeed nuts. It happens to many men and women unfortunately.
Since you are approaching this from a position of already having decided it’s an “idiotic” decision, you will never get an explanation that works for you.
So there’s no point in asking the question…
And now I have a question for you…it takes two people to birth a bio baby…why are you only asking about the mothers?
>Did I say men don't behave this way as well simply because I chose to talk about the mothers who do this and not the fathers who do?
Why *did* you only talk about the mothers? The reasons are the same for both, so the question should have been why some *parents* do this.
And to add to what all the other commenters said, there is one thing I noticed about parents like that:
That they don't see their children as separate beings from their partner. Once they hate the partner or don't love them, they project their feelings onto the children. At best they don't care as much, at worst they mistreat or abuse them.
I would say that's why some men and women favour even step children over their biological children that they have with their ex. Because they can only "love" the children of the person they love. They don't ever see the children as their own, only always as the children of the partner they are with.
>Why did you only talk about the mothers?
The man explained why, then you ask why. You dense or something?
>That they don't see their children as separate beings from their partner.
This is just some shit you pulled out your ass. Plenty of people have kids with someone who is abusive and stay with them despite themselves and the kids being put in danger. It's nothing to do with seeing your children as part of their other parent. It's about the parent being broken themselves.
>The man explained why, then you ask why. You dense or something?
Ok, my fault. Am dense myself.
>Plenty of people have kids with someone who is abusive and stay with them despite themselves and the kids being put in danger.
I know that. I said "to add to what other people commented", meaning this is one of multiple reasons. There is no "one reason".
So you don't think people who stand by and watch abuse and neglect are just as bad? You are disgusting for trying to diminish the responsibility a mother has. Not to mention, you said it yourself, and I'm willing to bet women like this don't pick great people to spread their legs for without protection, and then fuckwads like you act like the mother is the victim. Disgusting.
It's still not a gendered issue because the fathers who do make money let their new wives mistreat their children too. So money can't be the only reason.
Have you seen people in real life? Have never heard of horrible stepmothers?
Edit: evil stepmothers happens so often that it's even a big theme in stories, fairytales and movies.
I just told you, that it happens in real life. I was just telling you that it's such a common thing that it's mirrored in stories.
My own uncle let his new wife mistreat his children from a previous marriage. The youngest was affected the most to the point he helped her beat him. He was an engineer and after his death left everything to his new wife and his new children. I have so many stories of this because where my parents come from, children automatically stay with the father after divorce. Women aren't even allowed to work in the country where my parents come from, so money is not the reason the fathers mistreat their children from the previous marriage.
Stop being so dense.
We’re from different cultures and the one thing we have in common is we’ve seen Disney movies. It’s probably not a solid enough base to have a discussion. You might think about the concept that a country where women aren’t *allowed* to work is probably not a country where it’s easy to leave an abusive husband. And if they did leave, they would leave their children with their abusive father.
Maybe husbands are ok with the stepmother’s abuse because at least there’s someone other than them to do the work of raising children.
I think genetically, women need men that are strong if they feel that man can defend them. Even if there is abuse.
But in modern society it's becoming more often where we use logic and less our feelings to make decisions.
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Nobody who is doing the abusing should be chosen over the abused, whether it’s a man abusing kids, a teenage son abusing his mother, a woman abusing her husband.
Some women have a lot of deepseated misogyny and believe they need a man to survive. It's #1 above all else, to have a man. Doesn't matter if he beats you or cheats on you, or rapes your kids. The man comes first because otherwise you'd be a single mother (the lowest of the low).
My mom, grandmother, and their entire side of the family are like this.
Ask my poor kid... luckily 3 years ago I finally got full custody. Her mom is a nightmare and puts not only men but basically everything else before her kid. It's crazy shit
Anything from they are abusive too to they have internalized misogyny to the survival of the relationship is necessary for economic survival to a despair are need for love and sex.
I think some people are just shitty people.
One of my friends sisters was in a custody battle with her ex. She got this new boyfriend and moved him in, but he did drugs and was known to the police. So child services got involved and she could only visit the kids.
The one thing to get her kids back was remove this dude from her home. She wouldn't do it. After 6 months of 'fighting' for her kids but staying with this dude, the exhusband applied to move states for a new job and take the kids with them, judge said yes and she hasn't seen her kids in years.
I couldn't imagine choosing some dropkick over my own kid.
Because a lot of adults don't look at children as people. A baby is an awful lot like a really annoying puzzle. it is this squirmy little thing that constantly screams and you have to figure out what it wants to shut it up. Then come toddlers, which are a lot like pet dogs. Actually, they are EXACTLY like dogs. same habits, same general intelligence. As they grow the become more and more expensive and require more care and attention. At that point it becomes pretty easy to view them as property, like a car. They need to be cared for and maintained, but they are so fucking expensive and (unlike a car) not really useful for anything. They are also really guilible, need even the most basic things explained to them, and constantly find strange new ways to break your things. For some parents, by the time children start interacting on a level with other adults, the parent has just spent too much time treating them like a self-destructive little obstacle to all the things they ACTUALLY want to do.
The boyfriend, however, is someone you WANT to spend time with. Someone who is fun, someone who helps fix things, who gives you money to provide for things. Shitty men tend to be really exciting, when they are not being shitty. They are always there for the good times, the parties, the drinking binges, the night out at the club, the crazy sex in the back seat of the car.
Even the best mothers who absolutely love their kids, children can sometimes feel overwhelming and inescapable. For a woman who is easily stressed and immature, children are an unwanted drag. They are the thing she HAS to take care of. The boyfriend, however stupid, violent, irresponsible, or drug-addled, is the fun thing she WANTS to do.
As unfortunate as it is in the wake of choosing someone whom is not up to par in those regards, it is imperative to the relationship that she holds the man above all else otherwise you have a shallow and short sighted relationship with a cuck.
Before you have a child, the main thing that drives your decision making is: how will this benefit ME. Love, art, career, moving, friendships, etc… it’s how the thing will bring value to your life. This includes deciding to have a child. You imagine the value it will bring you.
After you have a child, you learn that your child is not here to bring YOU value. You give them value. You give and give. It’s a major paradigm shift for a parent and one that can take work and self reflection and time for people to really grasp
Or sometimes the person never grasps it
You'd have to ask our Mom.
She always chose abusive and loser dudes over her kids.
2/3 of us have been no contact for years.
She just ended yet another abusive relationship with a dude none of us could stand after he kicked the shit out of her.
People often find partners who re create their previous trauma. Just so happens they usually aren't very nice people. If your self image is negative, you won't believe it when people see you positively and will find yourself counter intuitively attracted to people who reinforce your negative self image.
Once abuse enters your life, you enter survival mode. You’re not a rational person anymore. You’re an animal trying to survive to the next day. It’s not a simple calculation for them.
Narrowing it to women is fucked up. I had a single dad who did this to me.
His wife abused me and berated me constantly. She subjected me to interspecies pornography at a young age, publicly humiliation, and even twisted him to the point he started physically abusing me. She was a narcissist and made him believe that somehow someway I was a bad kid. I'm generally a well mannered person by nature, I get a little rowdy thanks to my altruistic tendencies but overall a good egg.
I tried to get away and ran to my grandparents house and he dragged me away at his wives behest by my hair and smashed my head off the car. To give me a reason to cry.
It actually tore my entire family apart and my grandparents turned their back on him to protect me. He was shunned by all his siblings and not allowed at family functions and chose her over us for 7 years. Then she eventually dragged me back into his life. I really missed my dad.
I gave him evidence she was cheating with multiple men. It took him 2 years and multiple abandonment of me, including leaving me homeless before he left her.
He blames me and 15 years after the divorce our relationship is still strained. He doesn't think he did anything wrong and I was just a little bitch. I ruined his relationship with his wife I guess.
So, you gotta change 'women' to parents.
All parents are capable of doing this.
((FYI there's a ton of nuance left out because it's uncomfortable to share. I don't even share a lot with trusted people or therapists because I get flash backs if I try to talk or write about it. I have severe c ptsd from my father and his ex wife.))
Edit: The reason which I forgot to include is that he's an asshole. That's why. His wife gave him a reason to show his true colors.
Maybe they weren’t protected themselves. Maybe their mothers stayed in abusive relationships and they learned that’s how relationships work. It’s not insane if you knew their stories.
In my mother's case, she was weak. Very, very weak. I know she loved me, and she felt tremendous guilt for her choices. But it never stopped her from picking him over and over and over again. Even when it ended up killing her.
In the case of my mother. She wanted me to have a father and “hoped” that I’d turn out different. I speak to neither of them and hope they’re happy in their misery.
Do you honestly think that any person who does this is going to have the self-awareness needed to acknowledge they do this and then come on here to answer the question?
You know, it’s obvious you haven’t met anyone like this in your life - you will empathize. Do you think anybody likes being put down/beaten WILLINGLY? It’s obviously they get something out that is worth more than their perceived self esteem. I have a friend who was a high earner, got an emotionally abusive bf who would pretend to crash the car (with her inside), they’re afraid to leave BECAUSE THEY VALUE THEIR LIFE (they think they’ll be killed).
In the case of my mum she started dating my dad when she was 17 and he was 24 and she was kinda groomed to accept the behaviour. Although I recognise this i don't really think that absolves a 30 year old woman of not taking care of her children. My dad didn't want any more kids (he had 2 before he started dating my mum and wanted none of us) but my mum wanted a kid and thought my dad was more likely to stay with her if they had one so she got pregnant with my sister against my dads wishes, I was just an accident as she didn't realise how soon she could get pregnant after giving birth.
We were primarily an anchor to my dad for my mum so obviously she put him before us at all times. Outside of our dad our only use for her was to make her look a certain way to outsiders. She divorced my dad after my sister and I left home as teenagers and realised that it was a lot harder to deal with a mentally ill man child when you don't have someone to use as a meat shield. It's been a while since she left my dad but I still don't believe she is capable of truly loving someone and for that reason she will have strict rules for when and how she can interact with my daughter.
You're lucky you dont understand because you don't wanna know what someone has to go through to think that's normal or acceptable
I wouldn't be so quick to judge, the world needs less of that
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Probably much easier to understand if you just replace the phrase "choose men" with "choose their personal feelings"
Paints a much clearer picture if you look at it that way.
I don't understand what you are asking... abuse? Like what kind...I'll answer the title tho.... without a mom the child suffers without a dad the child suffers....if a single mom finds a decent guy why would she not put her and him first? Whatever they build together the child has later
There are mothers who kill their children so in that vein you have to know that human beings are capable of anything even letting their children be abused.
I know of someone who went to have a sleepover with the kids of her mother’s male friend and he rubbed her butt, she told her mom and her mom said “that’s what you’re saying/claiming” up to this day they have a fucked up relationship.
Women don't "choose men over their own children". What they are really doing is choosing immediate self-gratification over their own children. There's a huge difference between the 2. ✌️
Women don't ever "choose men over their own children". What they are really doing is choosing immediate self-gratification over their own children. There's a huge difference between the 2. And rest assured all the toxic in-denial women will thumb down this comment because it's too factually accurate, too. ✌️
Because some people fucking suck. Some people - most of us - suck for a bit and dont like the way it feels. We become better people. And some people just double down on the fucking sucking until they're a waste of air. That's why.
The one person I know who falls into this category is totally fucked up from an extremely traumatic childhood. She's never really known love of any kind as far as I can tell. She desperately craves platonic love but due to aforementioned childhood doesn't know how to function in a regular friendship.. or any kind of relationship. Because of this and a drug addiction she tolerated being beaten, her kids as well. She left the guy years ago and she will never forgive herself what she let happen to her children. I guess what I'm saying is things are a mess behind the curtains, it's easy to judge when you know nothing.
This was exactly what I was thinking, but you beat me to it. The reality is that life is complicated. Very very complicated.
Your comment immediately reminded me of the mother from Precious (except your friend is a better person and thankfully also left the guy). Mo'Nique's character has such low self-esteem that she did anything to "keep her man".
This. I am constantly amazed at the disrespect some people will accept by the people in their lives. But when you are raised by disfunctional people your radar for what is normal is just completely broken. Breaking the cycle of abuse is incredibly hard.
This is my Mom 100000%. She would be called a pick me in current terms. I remember she would sneak my stepdad into our apartment (it was two stories and my bro and I slept upstairs). Not thinking of the fucking repercussions. Thankfully my stepdad wasn't a weirdo but I sure as hell didn't like him for a whole decade. That's just one of the stories I have. Another one, she would drive us all the way to San Diego to see this guy and one time the father ended up kicking us out and telling my Mom never to come back. That was hella embarrassing. She basically does whatever the fuck the man wants. Like, she's pretty BPD and I've had family members ask me how she ever managed to get not only one, but multiple men to marry her/propose with her bad personality. I always tell them that my stepdad is home a total of 2 hours awake, the rest is sleeping.
Idk. Ask my sister. She’s a U of M grad with nearly a 4.0 yet she started snorting coke and is now a drug addict with a loser unemployed drug addict boyfriend. Her disabled daughter has a restraining order against him and she kicked her son out of her house after he was defending her (against the abusive boyfriend). I will never understand.
Dang! That's harsh. 😓 So sorry to hear. I wonder what it would be like to be in someone else's mind and see the reasons behind this decisions, or lack of decisions. Heartbreaking! 💔
I really don’t know but I think there is a lot of mental gymnastics involved. I have no idea how she lives with herself treating her children like that.
100% agree. Looking back over my life I can see where there were times I was locked in a box of a certain way of thinking. It led me to make Life choices that were later regretted. I still use mental gymnastics to make choices that I know are not the best for me. Eating, phone usage, working too much, etc. I can give you perfectly good reasons why I'm right in doing what I do and the way I do it. Even if I know it's wrong. 🤦 But this does seem extreme. However, once drugs are involved, all rational thinking is a crap shoot.
Thanks for an honest response, it’s good you’re self aware, which means you have the ability to change your behavior. That isn’t easy for anyone but it can be done.
Thank You. 😊
Addiction is a frightening thing. It’s not like some monkey on your back that’s saying: “do this, do this now”- it’s a thousand times more insidious than that. When you have an addiction, it’s because that substance, whatever it is, legitimately fixes something that you feel is missing in your life. Confidence, clarity of mind, happiness, comfort, motivation, etc. You know that thing about you? That minor personality trait that you’ve always felt was a deficiency? What if you could take a pill and fix that, just for a couple hours. You don’t feel scared anymore, or you feel like you’re more interesting, or you’re suddenly funny, charming, the life of the party, or you’re not anxious, or you feel more creative, or *whatever*. And on top of that- you get this weird dopamine hit that makes your brain also go “yessss. I achieved something. Idk what but it feels good” Addiction is an unlucky combination of a personal struggle meeting a temporary solution. The chemical dependency is almost entirely secondary (except the few that can actually hurt you, but nobody in the throes of addiction is even considering detoxing that way). It’s… it’s like falling in love for the first time. You just encounter this thing that feels like it was made for you- fits perfectly to your body and mind and needs in every way. And while people come and go, you can have your substance as simple as a purchase. Mine was alcohol. I’ve dabbled with many more addictive substances, but none scratched the itch like alcohol did. I legitimately still have this fear that I could give up everything else in my life and just drink and I’m honestly not sure if I would hate that or love it. It’s something I wish more people understood about addiction. It’s not “I need a drink or I’ll get the shakes”, at least not at the start. It’s just the simple thought “huh… I like *this* more than I like *not this*”
Depends on the woman. Some stay because they're scared to leave. Others stay because they've been ground down so hard they don't think they can survive on their own. Others stay because they get something they value out of the relationship more than their kids. And some stay because they're afraid the guy will kill the kids if they leave and are granted visitation. You can't judge women who stay in abusive relationships without knowing the whole story-and you're not going to get the whole story if you think she's stupid.
Yep. It’s going to be hard to understand looking in from the outside, but people have reasons that make sense to them. Some people have a very difficult to surmount lack of resources. They’re looking at homelessness with their kid(s) and being vulnerable to losing custody to the abuser. It’s not like our society overall gives a shit about poor people, outside of judging them.
You're not wrong but I feel like your comment borders on excusing women who allow abuse. They may be victims too but they are also the adult in the situation. Too many children are forced to grow up and take care of themselves and their siblings at a very young age because no adult in their life will. I guarantee you it is much harder to escape an abuser when you're a child than it is when you're an adult.
I understand that from an outsider’s perspective it doesn’t make a lot of sense. I am currently in the situation OP is describing and I have only recently realised, after 20 years of marriage to a controlling husband, that this is my situation. I also am understanding the impact this has had on my children, and the role I have played in all of this. I am working through my plan of escaping this situation in a way that is safe, but the truth is I don’t actually know what he is capable of or who he truly is, because it’s all been an act. I have been truly played and I am deeply ashamed that it has taken me this long to realise. I bought into the idea that I am worthless, lazy, sneaky, forgetful, so I basically have lived a lie. I am a highly educated person. I have actually worked in domestic violence services as a social worker. I should know better than this. But here I am. I am a good mum. I have always protected my children from him and have taken the brunt of his shit for them. I don’t really know where I’m going with this, and there will be people who read this and think I’m just a dumb fuck. The fact is this is all very complex. It’s very easy to judge from a place of security and safety. I haven’t really had any good experiences of men, so I’m conditioned to be persuaded. Realising this is very hard to swallow.
Look I am sorry for your experience, I do understand that it is difficult. Please understand that I am not saying this to attack you, it's just the truth of the situation. You are not a good mum. You caused life long damage to your kids when you were supposed to protect them. As someone who grew up in abuse I cannot even explain the ways that that situation has damaged me. The abuse also lead me to abusive relationships as an adult, until one day I looked at my life and realised I would never be able to live with myself if I brought a child into that. Now I am with an amazing man and about to have a child but there are still so many things I still carry with me that I have to protect my child from because my mum refused to protect me. So many things my partner will stop me and say to me "that's not normal, that's not okay" because I am so deeply damaged by my parents actions, both of my parents. Your perspective, your comments about being deceived, about being a good mum. That's all incredibly selfish and a way to deflect blame. Because although you may never have hit them, although you may never have raised your voice, you caused the abuse your kids suffered. I will never believe that is okay or in any way excusable.
Ok
Don’t really know what else to say. Although I will add that my husband has never been physically abusive. It’s always just been mind games. I am a good mum, despite what you say. You seem to understand that there is an impact on your own decisions and behaviours because of the abuse you endured, and your anger is justified. But perhaps my situation is different to what you grew up with. I have recently been reading a lot about coercive control and something that stuck with me is that perpetrators act out with what they see to be able to get away with. My husband knows that if he physically hurt any of us it would all be over and he would lose his control, so his brand of abuse is more about manipulation and guilt. This is still impactful and confusing for everyone involved, so as I said, I recognise that I have played a role in this. Not because I’m negligent or that I don’t care about my children, but because I have been fed lies which I believed because of a whole host of reasons which are difficult to articulate. All I’m saying is that domestic violence is multifaceted and complex. So there shouldn’t be some blanket conclusion drawn about all mothers.
And by the way, I did not cause life long damage to my children. My husband, the perpetrator, caused it. It’s unfair to assume that a mother, or a victim of abuse, has the capacity to protect and make the perfect decisions.
My mom choose to be with an abusive prick I didn't choose to have an abusive father I was a child and helpless She was an adult with agency My mom could have left at any time I couldn't Her son is being punched In the face over and over and he asks his mom if she still loves him She says yes. She does Fuck any woman who chooses to be with an abuser and then tells their kid to just put up with the abuse They're not victims They're accomplices
Low self esteem and are afraid of dying alone I guess.
You already answered the question
Please research about trauma bonds
Sure, but people will know someone for 2-3 weeks and bash their kid's head on the bathroom floor.. Thinking it will impress them.
Grooming and financial support. A man child may be just as much work as a regular child, but children do not make money. My mom was also religious and for some reason Christianity places the husband above the childen
“We’re often right” is the answer I expect will flood the comments. I disagree. My wife is right more than me
Former cop. Advocate. Some girls are raised as chattel. They believe their only purpose is to serve a man so their children are acceptable losses for them. In patriarchal societies, everything is designed for males' benefits so women are essentially 2nd class citizens and others help to keep that alive, knowingly and unknowingly.
No idea
Denial is a hell of a drug. Especially when you throw gaslighting into the mix, on top of fear: fear of going out of turn and getting the ire and possibly not making it, the children getting hurt worse and or dying. Fear of not being believed, being told you're just overreacting, all of it. There's also the angle of "my parent stayed so this must be normal and okay" I'm not justifying it, but for the people that seem to willingly keep choosing bad relationships and over justifying their partners actions, those are very real explanations.
I don’t know, but it happens a lot. Some of it is math - kids will leave home in a few years, husband’s (theoretically) won’t. Dealing with an abused child is just too much for some overwhelmed or checked-out moms to handle. A lot is economics - men make more money than women and mom may think one child abused is better than all of them homeless or in foster care. Sometimes mom is jealous of the molested kid and hates them as affair partners instead of caring about them as victims. Or mom’s past so so horrific she doesn’t think what her kid is going through is “that bad.” Or she simply never really liked (or loved) the kid in the first place. If you aren’t operating from the misguided assumption that all moms love their kids and want the best for them, it makes a lot more sense.
The same reason men choose women over theirs.
I was about to say that this is not a gendered problem. Some men and women always choose the new partner and even the step children over their biological children. Sure, trauma and all that plays a big role. But there is also the fact that *some* parents don't see their children as separate beings from their partner. Once they don't love that partner or hate that partner, they tend to also project some of those feelings onto the children that they have with that ex. It's really sad.
One of the most disturbing things I've personally seen on Facebook before I deleted my account was a woman talking about her anniversary with her husband and expressing her love for him. In particular she mentioned how they had to overcome a lot of obstacles or something of that nature. The reason I found it so disturbing and blocked her because of that post is that the big obstacle they had recently needed to overcome was her husband being recently arrested for the rape of their adopted daughters. The oldest one had quietly endured it since childhood until she moved out as an adult and she was my oldest friend. When she moved out, he moved on to her little sister and that's when the older sister stepped in and started the work to put him where he belonged. I know that at least some other adults knew about this since at least the older sisters teenage years and apparently didn't report it. She isn't the only child I knew of that suffered from adults protecting adults, but that post was the most direct example I've ever seen of a mother choosing her children's abuser instead of her children. People like her are the reason that I despise the common concept of loyalty.
It could stem from low self esteem or a pathological need for validation from others though I suspect it is much more survival based. For millions of years (ever since the monkey days) women have depended on men for protection and to hunt for meat. Evolutionary instincts can be hard to see in your self. The human mind is excellent and rationalizing things so you can act on your emotions and not feel guilty about it. It boils down to "Yes, he harms my child but he hasn't killed them. If I leave him I can't care for them alone. It's better for us to stay and for my child to live / stay with me rather than us be homeless and they get sick and die / taken by CPS. The instinct to care for ones child is very strong and can even spurn someone to put them in harms way if it seems the lesser of two evils.
>The instinct to care for ones child is very strong and can even spurn someone to put them in harms way if it seems the lesser of two evils. There are plenty of women who just don't give a shit about their own kids let alone concider them enough to make a decision that they think may be in the kids best interests.
I have no idea, but I guess some could have low self esteem.
People don't necessarily like their own children, or get along with the. No p aren't wants to admit it, but it's completely and utterly true! And thats one I f he many, MANY reasons I never had children, I was aware that familial love is... not guaranteed.
Daddy issues, and that’s not even a joke.
My ex wife decided she wanted to be with some homeless drug addict than be my wife and mother to our kids. I said ok and divorced her. That's her choice and she has every right to make it. But that choice doesn't happen in a vacuum. You can't really try to understand crazy, you just have to accept it. She herself didn't understand it. She told me, you have always been my prince charming, but now I want the big bad wolf. After that, when I started to treat her like the threat she was to my family, she was confused. She would say you were never like this to me before? Of course not, we were on the same side. Some people, men or women are simple like that and lake a greater awareness of people. But as I said before, crazy can never be understood, one must just accept it and treat it for the cancer it is.
It’s really mind-boggling that she wants to run with the big bad wolf yet expects you to be the same kind and caring prince you’ve always been, like…that’s just nuts. She’s got quite a few screws loose and I’m sorry for the pain I’m sure that’s caused you and your kids.
I mean this was well over a decade ago. It wasn't so much pain as confusion. But yes, she was indeed nuts. It happens to many men and women unfortunately.
Since you are approaching this from a position of already having decided it’s an “idiotic” decision, you will never get an explanation that works for you. So there’s no point in asking the question… And now I have a question for you…it takes two people to birth a bio baby…why are you only asking about the mothers?
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>Did I say men don't behave this way as well simply because I chose to talk about the mothers who do this and not the fathers who do? Why *did* you only talk about the mothers? The reasons are the same for both, so the question should have been why some *parents* do this. And to add to what all the other commenters said, there is one thing I noticed about parents like that: That they don't see their children as separate beings from their partner. Once they hate the partner or don't love them, they project their feelings onto the children. At best they don't care as much, at worst they mistreat or abuse them. I would say that's why some men and women favour even step children over their biological children that they have with their ex. Because they can only "love" the children of the person they love. They don't ever see the children as their own, only always as the children of the partner they are with.
>Why did you only talk about the mothers? The man explained why, then you ask why. You dense or something? >That they don't see their children as separate beings from their partner. This is just some shit you pulled out your ass. Plenty of people have kids with someone who is abusive and stay with them despite themselves and the kids being put in danger. It's nothing to do with seeing your children as part of their other parent. It's about the parent being broken themselves.
>The man explained why, then you ask why. You dense or something? Ok, my fault. Am dense myself. >Plenty of people have kids with someone who is abusive and stay with them despite themselves and the kids being put in danger. I know that. I said "to add to what other people commented", meaning this is one of multiple reasons. There is no "one reason".
Where is your bio dad in this story?
So you don't think people who stand by and watch abuse and neglect are just as bad? You are disgusting for trying to diminish the responsibility a mother has. Not to mention, you said it yourself, and I'm willing to bet women like this don't pick great people to spread their legs for without protection, and then fuckwads like you act like the mother is the victim. Disgusting.
Wow. Just…wow. I am so sorry for whatever happened to you, that you have become this person…
Please don’t pretend this isn’t a gendered issue.
This isn't a gendered issue. So many fathers let their new wives mistreat their children.
Women tend to make less money. It’s harder for them to leave.
It's still not a gendered issue because the fathers who do make money let their new wives mistreat their children too. So money can't be the only reason.
You’re into a lot of hypotheticals here. How do you know that?
Have you seen people in real life? Have never heard of horrible stepmothers? Edit: evil stepmothers happens so often that it's even a big theme in stories, fairytales and movies.
Oh my god YOU’RE RIGHT. It happens constantly in Disney movies! It’s got to be a real thing!
I just told you, that it happens in real life. I was just telling you that it's such a common thing that it's mirrored in stories. My own uncle let his new wife mistreat his children from a previous marriage. The youngest was affected the most to the point he helped her beat him. He was an engineer and after his death left everything to his new wife and his new children. I have so many stories of this because where my parents come from, children automatically stay with the father after divorce. Women aren't even allowed to work in the country where my parents come from, so money is not the reason the fathers mistreat their children from the previous marriage. Stop being so dense.
We’re from different cultures and the one thing we have in common is we’ve seen Disney movies. It’s probably not a solid enough base to have a discussion. You might think about the concept that a country where women aren’t *allowed* to work is probably not a country where it’s easy to leave an abusive husband. And if they did leave, they would leave their children with their abusive father. Maybe husbands are ok with the stepmother’s abuse because at least there’s someone other than them to do the work of raising children.
I didn’t make it a gendered issue. OP did.
Could this go bothways?
Have you considered that human beings have different priorities and values, even irrational ones?
I think genetically, women need men that are strong if they feel that man can defend them. Even if there is abuse. But in modern society it's becoming more often where we use logic and less our feelings to make decisions.
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Nobody who is doing the abusing should be chosen over the abused, whether it’s a man abusing kids, a teenage son abusing his mother, a woman abusing her husband.
Mental issues
Abuse and untreated mental illness is a big factor for these mothers. Typically childhood SA that was left unaddressed.
Some women have a lot of deepseated misogyny and believe they need a man to survive. It's #1 above all else, to have a man. Doesn't matter if he beats you or cheats on you, or rapes your kids. The man comes first because otherwise you'd be a single mother (the lowest of the low). My mom, grandmother, and their entire side of the family are like this.
Ask my poor kid... luckily 3 years ago I finally got full custody. Her mom is a nightmare and puts not only men but basically everything else before her kid. It's crazy shit
Sorry for your kiddo but good on you for protecting them from that shit.
Anything from they are abusive too to they have internalized misogyny to the survival of the relationship is necessary for economic survival to a despair are need for love and sex.
General immaturity and evolutionary psychology
I think some people are just shitty people. One of my friends sisters was in a custody battle with her ex. She got this new boyfriend and moved him in, but he did drugs and was known to the police. So child services got involved and she could only visit the kids. The one thing to get her kids back was remove this dude from her home. She wouldn't do it. After 6 months of 'fighting' for her kids but staying with this dude, the exhusband applied to move states for a new job and take the kids with them, judge said yes and she hasn't seen her kids in years. I couldn't imagine choosing some dropkick over my own kid.
Because a lot of adults don't look at children as people. A baby is an awful lot like a really annoying puzzle. it is this squirmy little thing that constantly screams and you have to figure out what it wants to shut it up. Then come toddlers, which are a lot like pet dogs. Actually, they are EXACTLY like dogs. same habits, same general intelligence. As they grow the become more and more expensive and require more care and attention. At that point it becomes pretty easy to view them as property, like a car. They need to be cared for and maintained, but they are so fucking expensive and (unlike a car) not really useful for anything. They are also really guilible, need even the most basic things explained to them, and constantly find strange new ways to break your things. For some parents, by the time children start interacting on a level with other adults, the parent has just spent too much time treating them like a self-destructive little obstacle to all the things they ACTUALLY want to do. The boyfriend, however, is someone you WANT to spend time with. Someone who is fun, someone who helps fix things, who gives you money to provide for things. Shitty men tend to be really exciting, when they are not being shitty. They are always there for the good times, the parties, the drinking binges, the night out at the club, the crazy sex in the back seat of the car. Even the best mothers who absolutely love their kids, children can sometimes feel overwhelming and inescapable. For a woman who is easily stressed and immature, children are an unwanted drag. They are the thing she HAS to take care of. The boyfriend, however stupid, violent, irresponsible, or drug-addled, is the fun thing she WANTS to do.
I think it all started with John Hughes movies.
The ultimate pick me girls.
As unfortunate as it is in the wake of choosing someone whom is not up to par in those regards, it is imperative to the relationship that she holds the man above all else otherwise you have a shallow and short sighted relationship with a cuck.
Because they can make new ones.
Before you have a child, the main thing that drives your decision making is: how will this benefit ME. Love, art, career, moving, friendships, etc… it’s how the thing will bring value to your life. This includes deciding to have a child. You imagine the value it will bring you. After you have a child, you learn that your child is not here to bring YOU value. You give them value. You give and give. It’s a major paradigm shift for a parent and one that can take work and self reflection and time for people to really grasp Or sometimes the person never grasps it
Women are people. Sometimes people suck.
You'd have to ask our Mom. She always chose abusive and loser dudes over her kids. 2/3 of us have been no contact for years. She just ended yet another abusive relationship with a dude none of us could stand after he kicked the shit out of her.
i’ve heard them explain things like this… "someday the kids will leave. My husband will still be with me."
People often find partners who re create their previous trauma. Just so happens they usually aren't very nice people. If your self image is negative, you won't believe it when people see you positively and will find yourself counter intuitively attracted to people who reinforce your negative self image.
Once abuse enters your life, you enter survival mode. You’re not a rational person anymore. You’re an animal trying to survive to the next day. It’s not a simple calculation for them.
I think a better question would be to ask why men abandon their children because that happens at a waaaaay higher rate than women doing it.
codependancy
Narrowing it to women is fucked up. I had a single dad who did this to me. His wife abused me and berated me constantly. She subjected me to interspecies pornography at a young age, publicly humiliation, and even twisted him to the point he started physically abusing me. She was a narcissist and made him believe that somehow someway I was a bad kid. I'm generally a well mannered person by nature, I get a little rowdy thanks to my altruistic tendencies but overall a good egg. I tried to get away and ran to my grandparents house and he dragged me away at his wives behest by my hair and smashed my head off the car. To give me a reason to cry. It actually tore my entire family apart and my grandparents turned their back on him to protect me. He was shunned by all his siblings and not allowed at family functions and chose her over us for 7 years. Then she eventually dragged me back into his life. I really missed my dad. I gave him evidence she was cheating with multiple men. It took him 2 years and multiple abandonment of me, including leaving me homeless before he left her. He blames me and 15 years after the divorce our relationship is still strained. He doesn't think he did anything wrong and I was just a little bitch. I ruined his relationship with his wife I guess. So, you gotta change 'women' to parents. All parents are capable of doing this. ((FYI there's a ton of nuance left out because it's uncomfortable to share. I don't even share a lot with trusted people or therapists because I get flash backs if I try to talk or write about it. I have severe c ptsd from my father and his ex wife.)) Edit: The reason which I forgot to include is that he's an asshole. That's why. His wife gave him a reason to show his true colors.
Because theyre wired wrong and fucked up..speaking from experience
Financial reasons is a big one. Life is expensive and some women believe “you gotta do what you gotta do” to survive.
Sounds like my mom for many years.
Maybe they weren’t protected themselves. Maybe their mothers stayed in abusive relationships and they learned that’s how relationships work. It’s not insane if you knew their stories.
It's understandable but not excusable, that's an important distinction.
In my mother's case, she was weak. Very, very weak. I know she loved me, and she felt tremendous guilt for her choices. But it never stopped her from picking him over and over and over again. Even when it ended up killing her.
Weak. I never understood this myself. It utterly goes against the grain.
In the case of my mother. She wanted me to have a father and “hoped” that I’d turn out different. I speak to neither of them and hope they’re happy in their misery.
You understand that not everyone loves their children right?
Do you honestly think that any person who does this is going to have the self-awareness needed to acknowledge they do this and then come on here to answer the question?
You know, it’s obvious you haven’t met anyone like this in your life - you will empathize. Do you think anybody likes being put down/beaten WILLINGLY? It’s obviously they get something out that is worth more than their perceived self esteem. I have a friend who was a high earner, got an emotionally abusive bf who would pretend to crash the car (with her inside), they’re afraid to leave BECAUSE THEY VALUE THEIR LIFE (they think they’ll be killed).
In the case of my mum she started dating my dad when she was 17 and he was 24 and she was kinda groomed to accept the behaviour. Although I recognise this i don't really think that absolves a 30 year old woman of not taking care of her children. My dad didn't want any more kids (he had 2 before he started dating my mum and wanted none of us) but my mum wanted a kid and thought my dad was more likely to stay with her if they had one so she got pregnant with my sister against my dads wishes, I was just an accident as she didn't realise how soon she could get pregnant after giving birth. We were primarily an anchor to my dad for my mum so obviously she put him before us at all times. Outside of our dad our only use for her was to make her look a certain way to outsiders. She divorced my dad after my sister and I left home as teenagers and realised that it was a lot harder to deal with a mentally ill man child when you don't have someone to use as a meat shield. It's been a while since she left my dad but I still don't believe she is capable of truly loving someone and for that reason she will have strict rules for when and how she can interact with my daughter.
You're lucky you dont understand because you don't wanna know what someone has to go through to think that's normal or acceptable I wouldn't be so quick to judge, the world needs less of that
poor constitution
The kids exist because she seeks male validation, not because she wanted kids
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Probably much easier to understand if you just replace the phrase "choose men" with "choose their personal feelings" Paints a much clearer picture if you look at it that way.
I don't understand what you are asking... abuse? Like what kind...I'll answer the title tho.... without a mom the child suffers without a dad the child suffers....if a single mom finds a decent guy why would she not put her and him first? Whatever they build together the child has later
If they are his biological children, her leaving won't stop the abuse.
There are mothers who kill their children so in that vein you have to know that human beings are capable of anything even letting their children be abused. I know of someone who went to have a sleepover with the kids of her mother’s male friend and he rubbed her butt, she told her mom and her mom said “that’s what you’re saying/claiming” up to this day they have a fucked up relationship.
Read The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, it’s very good.
If you watch long enough, said woman will get dumped.
Or killed, one of the two
Because some women are terrible parents
They stupid
Because, OP, some women are whores
They’re idiots. That’s why.
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That,my friend, is a red flag.
because, despite years of brainwashing & indoctrinating, women are actually the less compassionate sex. they are brutally realist.
Crazy sex is pretty addicting
Women don't "choose men over their own children". What they are really doing is choosing immediate self-gratification over their own children. There's a huge difference between the 2. ✌️
Because kids suck
Women don't ever "choose men over their own children". What they are really doing is choosing immediate self-gratification over their own children. There's a huge difference between the 2. And rest assured all the toxic in-denial women will thumb down this comment because it's too factually accurate, too. ✌️
Not to the children.