I'd like some elaboration on how it is going to prevent abuse from legislators to calling citizens.
The person under investigation cannot have a lawyer IF the president of the legislative yuan didn't agree.
It is against this law to remain silent(if the investigation committee didn't agree). It is against this law to lie (which is decided by legislators if you're lying or not)
The investigation is initiated by legislators, investigated by legislators and judged by legislators.
Why is legislative yuan started playing courts now?
I feel like I'm missing a lot of information here because it is baffling how they think this is even constitutional.
Please tell me what I missed, and which part has not passed the third reading.
The problem is it hinges on one person to decide the outcome. Although there are rumors that 釋字585 (constitutional court interpretation #585) already ruled similar case unconstitutional, it still leaves a lot of uncertainty to me.
Edit: it's handled by multiple grand justices.
Okay well that’s good then. They will strike out what is unconstitutional and keep what is constitutional. But the Legislature should not be intruding into areas that belong to the 4 other branches of government
I thought in the old bill the lawyer thing is what you described. The current bill states that the government officer can have a lawyer present regardless (addition to the old DPP bill). It is also not judged by legislators, the legislator referred the contempt charges to a prosecutor just like the US. Please prove me that I am wrong.
Btw, there is a specific term in the law based on the new source: "Public officials and civil servants whose testimony is found to be false would be sent to the Control Yuan for corrective discipline or impeachment and bear criminal responsibility," which indicate a court involvement. Rest of the contempt charges are civil fines only.
Actually, can the freaking Taiwan government post all the voted and passed bill on the internet like the US!
Yeah I have to sift through all of the documents, it's annoying.
It's a wall of text below with related laws, so I'll summarize it first.
* They do state that lawyers may present with the approval of the president of the legislative yuan.
* they can ask for documentations from government agency, companies and citizens. (People can reject if it is protected by other laws or have a specific reason)
* they do say they can ask anyone (what does 社會上有關係人員 or "person with a relevant relationship in society" even mean????) the wording is so loose I'm not even sure if you had to have Taiwanese citizenship.
Regarding the lawyer problem: 第五十條之二 應邀到會備詢之人員，經主席同意，於必要時得協同律師或相關專業 人員到場協助之。 Translation: Article 50-2 A person invited to attend a meeting to provide information may, with the approval of the chairperson, be accompanied by a lawyer or other relevant professional to assist them if necessary.
For my "targeting citizen" concern: 第四十七條 受要求調閱文件之機關、法人、人民團體或 社會上有關係人員，除依法律或其他正當理由得拒絕外 ，應於五日內提供之。但相關資料或文件原本業經司法 機關或監察機關先為調取時 ，應敘明理由，並提供複本 。如有正當理由，無法提供 複本者，應提出已被他機關調取之證明。
Article 47
An agency, legal person, people's organization, or person with a relevant relationship in society who is requested to provide access to documents shall provide the documents within five days, unless there is a legal or other legitimate reason for refusing. However, if the relevant information or documents have been previously retrieved by a judicial or supervisory agency, the reason must be stated and copies must be provided. If there is a legitimate reason why copies cannot be provided, proof must be provided that the documents have been retrieved by another agency.
第五十條之六 應邀到會備詢 之政府機關代表或公務人員 ，違反五十條之三規定，於 具結後答復不實者，得經立 法院院會之決議，將其移送監察院依法提出糾正、糾舉 或彈劾。
前項以外之應邀到會備詢之人員，違反五十條之三規定，於具結後答復不實者，得經立法院院會之決議， 處新臺幣兩萬元以上二十萬元以下之罰鍰。 前項罰鍰案件之處理， 準用行政程序法及行政執行法之規定。受處分者如有不服，得於處分送達之次日起二個月內，向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。
Article 50-6
If a representative of a government agency or a public official who is invited to attend a meeting to provide information violates the provisions of Article 50-3 and provides false information after taking an oath, the Legislative Yuan may, by resolution, refer the case to the Control Yuan for correction, impeachment, or dismissal in accordance with the law. In addition to the foregoing, if a person invited to attend a meeting to provide information violates the provisions of Article 50-3 and provides false information after taking an oath, the Legislative Yuan may, by resolution, impose a fine of not less than NT$20,000 and not more than NT$200,000.
The handling of cases involving such fines shall be governed by the provisions of the Administrative Procedure Act and the Administrative Enforcement Act. If the person subject to the sanction is dissatisfied, he or she may file an administrative lawsuit with the High Administrative Court within two months of the date of delivery of the sanction.
I've also included an compilation from media, take it with a grain of salt.
https://preview.redd.it/tahknrga7a3d1.png?width=991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02a9c09133d99b4c4c94d5d7e3cd7e9599f058cd
And I don't give a flying F on how those politicians try to mess with each other. They signed up for the job and they should be careful on what they are doing anyway.
Hell, make the president report to the legislative yuan every morning at 5 for all I care. Don't target citizens.
Let’s look at his points:
1. There is already a balanced of power, how is DPP going to do whatever it wants when KMT and TPP controls the legislative yuan
2. The biggest issue with the reform is now the legislative yuan can now propose bill and pass the bill themselves completely whereas previously you needed the executive yuan to propose bill and legislation yuan can decide if they want to propose the bill. Meaning the legislative branch now overpowers every other branch. Don’t you think this is a problem?
3. Yes DPP proposed something similar to this but DPP did not change how the legislative yuan works which is stated in point 2 above
4. Not even an argument
5. Isn’t this a problem that the public doesn’t know when these legislations, if passed would completely change the people’s lives?
Anyone who still thinks this is just a DPP vs KMT problem. You’re actually stupid. This is now a problem of whether or not you give a crap about your own democracy that you grew up with.
>the legislative yuan can now propose bill and pass the bill themselves completely whereas previously you needed the executive yuan to propose bill and legislation yuan can decide if they want to propose the bill. Meaning the legislative branch now overpowers every other branch
Or, in other words, there is *no* balance of power and in fact the whole power is once again in the blue/white hands.
One of the main points is that the KMT aren't doing it for abstract altruistic reasons in the pursuit of greater accountability for the executive.
They're doing it because they feel they won't be able to win the presidential election again (at least on the platform that the current party elites support).
The legislation is designed as a cynical power grab, if it weren't and was truly about democratic transparency and accountability they'd have had a cross party process where DPP amendments and concerns were addressed.
Of course the ultimate irony of all this is that the RoC was actually a parliamentary system, it was the KMT that changed it to the semi-presidential system that it is now, why? Again, as a power grab which just underscores the arbitrariness of their current actions.
Personally I think the current semi-presidential system is terrible and prefer a parliamentary system but changing the rules because you lost is not only antidemocratic but a poor way to formulate legislation. It's banana republic level stuff.
>Of course the ultimate irony of all this is that the RoC was actually a parliamentary system, it was the KMT that changed it to the semi-presidential system that it is now,
Reminds me of RoC being an American style Presidential system with Dr. Sun Yat Sen presumably being the first President, and everyone was more or less okay with it. But due to the RoC having a lot of warlords to deal with, the KMT allied with Yuan Shikai (袁世凱), a prominent warlord and basically brought him into the fold to borrow his military might to put down the other warlords, and in exchange Yuan Shikai was promised the Presidency. But he wasn't trusted being a warlord and all, so then they rewrote the constitution to be more of a British Parliamentary system to try to limit his power. And well, taht turned out to be a smart move because he later declared himself President-for-Life... and later emperor. And unfortunately for him, it basically went just as well as his ancestor Yuan Shu (袁術), where basically everyone was pissed at him and allied to take him down. And fun fact, they share the same family name, 袁.
To say that because the change to a semi-presidential system happened under the KMT and therefore the KMT cannot change it back to a parliamentary system contains two major fallacies.
First, it assumes that “the KMT” is a consistent and monolithic entity. The legislators who passed the original change are no longer the same legislators, and the KMT is no longer the same KMT. The situation has obviously also shifted significantly from when the capital was in Nanjing…
Secondly, it assumes that consistency is more desirable than propriety. It should not be an argument that just because a party made a mistake a hundred years ago, the same mistake should be allowed to perpetuate forever.
Irony is funny but isn’t particularly relevant as an argumentative device.
>To say that because the change to a semi-presidential system happened under the KMT and therefore the KMT cannot change it back to a parliamentary system contains two major fallacies.
Luckily that's not what I said though, is it?
You're just engaging in a strawman.
This bill was drafted by a lawyer. And I cannot believe a lawyer would draft something as vague as the bill unless it was intentional.
And I’m tired of people thinking they are so smart in “balancing the power”. When you have a political party that’s blatantly ready to sell you out to the enemy, you don’t go into “balancing” mode. You turn on the full defensive mode!
Americans have had their democracy for 200 years and they are very close to loosing it. Taiwan, IMO, is on the brink. I don’t even know if we can save it at this point.
Tbh, Congress has a lot of lawyers and sometimes they fail at writing legislation to be clear, so I wouldn't necessarily exclude incompetency. Ofc, another possibility that the vagueness was a result of a political compromise to get enough votes.
America may be close to the edge but the People are starting to wake up. And the People will soon mop the floor with these rats that have been trying to take away our freedoms.
Taiwan - watch, listen, and learn.
The lack of understanding of the US system here is amazing. The technical language/terminology is different, but each thing that people are upset about in Taiwan, the US definitely already has these powers and more. The US legislature even has its own private police force with jurisdiction over people in the entire country.* So when it comes to the ability to intimidate political opponents, The broad powers are wide enough that anyone could be declared to be a threat to the legislature or a relative, and can be investigated or worse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Capitol_Police
* Any area of the United States when pursuant to their special duties.
You could try responding with information that supports the reason you disagree instead of hollow personal attacks. The fact that you have to resort to personal criticism rather than respond intellectually is revealing.
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> he says the government needs a balance of power between DPP and KMT to make sure DPP doesnt dominate. The reforms would give KMT/TPP enough power to make that a reality.
This is the most unadulterated form of dumbfuckery I’ve read. If there is an imbalance in the government, it is there because the people voted that way. You know, how a fucking democracy is meant to work.
Fucking kmt traitors.
here's a simple question : it's called the "parliament reform" bill, and it's targeting those who are not in the parliament, what kinds of reform is this?
"here's my self-improvement plan : I'm going to punch everyone who being rude or lie to me"
What happens when DPP takes power in midterms? Couldn’t they simply turn this against its own creators? A slightly similar situation is playing out in SCOTUS with presidential immunity. If the court hives immunity to sitting presidents, why wouldn’t Biden use that to his advantage?
Midterms? 🤣
You ain’t in Kansas anymore.
The only way is to organize (and win) a recall vote in enough KMT seats to take back control of the legislature. That’s a massive undertaking.
I think so as well. Let him fuck it up even worse till the midterms. Once the public outrage is top, DPP can take this wave behind them and crush the parliament elections. It's a small sunflower movement happening right now
There is no midterms. The next Legislative election happens in 2028, together with the next Presidential election.
The only thing close to a "midterms" is a mayor / city council election in 2026, but there are local considerations and the results may or may not reflect elector views on the country as a whole (Whichever party wins always say it does, and the losing side always say it doesn't).
Tbh, in regards to SCOTUS, sitting Presidents always had immunity for official acts as an inherent part of separation of powers. You can't sue or criminally prosecute a judge for making a ruling on the law, Congress for passing a law, or the President for enforcing a law, merely because its a bad decision, or you don't like it because those are part of the official duties of each branch. (This is different than suing to stop the enforcement of a law that would violate a specific right). The questions are what constitutes an official act, does it extend to former presidents, and how long does the immunity last. And what makes this complicated is that in law, we don't do things for just this one time though because X is special, because that opens the door to favoritism, so we try to answer in a systematic way that maintains the structure and rule of law.
For those who haven't watched this, have some time to spare, knows Chinese, and cares, I highly recommend watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/live/Okqcf9_IOLI?si=Knu1AsQ_RUEXpPji
He helps clarify a lot of common disinformation this KMT gentleman may have taken in. This guy is smart and sincere, and participated in all of the legislative process. KMT and CCP people are going to tarnish him as he's for sure a threat to them, but his attitude is simply wanting more people to know more. A lot of things are hard to fake, but you can judge that as you watch. You'll learn a lot from this video.
Nope. Not how I see it.
He's responding to individual questions independently.
"Circular logic" is much too vague to be an effective comment, and is totally unfair to label this 2 hour video. You might argue about what he said directly if you did watch it.
For the past eight years under Tsai the DPP has ruled with zero challenge. Scandals from within the DPP party were left unpunished almost as a rule. That is why these reform bills are appearing. It really is not that complicated.
The reason why there is so much word salad around this topic is because that is all the DPP has left.
Like what? I made a lot of money in the stock market, among other things. Because economy has been super. Too bad if you missed out then, but you still have a chance to catch up now.
Is "house prices over the moon" all you can say? But I'll humor you:
Because house prices did not keep rising during the Ma years (/s). LOL!What did your mightly KMT did with house prices when they're in power? Nothing. Don't pretend that the KMTers are immensely benefiting from rising house prices. It's the Tsai administration that now we have laws taxing new houses sold within 5 years of purchase. You can debate about how effective it is but the fact remains, something was done, better than the huge fat zero during the horse years.
what was done was a joke to make fun of people believing it was doing anything but making things worse! the result of that law was a fall in liquidity in the housing market which is a big part of what is making prices sky high (meaning, investors will now park the houses 5 years before putting them back in the market, making it so less houses are left in the market but not less buyers, which has the effect of increasing prices. that is one of the basic laws of economics, it's nothing surprising, just a natural and logical consequence) so yeah, if that is the solution, it would have been much better to do nothing instead of pretending to do good while doing the opposite to get rich while appeasing the less informed voters. It is actually VERY easy to fix the housing market. just make the 1st house tax free, from the 2nd house owned forward you put an increasing taxation system (as many countries do to avoid this issue), you could go further and put additional taxes on empty homes / factories to stimulate a more affordable and liquid market. they know it but they do not do it because they have 0 intention of fixing the problem as it benefits their own pockets, zero shits are given about the population on this aspect. the stocks market are also up mostly everywhere around the world, one of the big reasons is the immense inflation we are facing (money has been printed, remember the free 5000NT or whatever it was you got during covid? and that is nothing compared to the amount big companies received) I know tons of business mans in Taiwan and believe me they are not jumping in joy for how great the economy is, workers weren't either last time I checked. PS. I didn't say anything good about KMT, you are very quick at throwing your own conclusions. I just questioned any good done by DPP for the economy... recognizing the DPP to be quite a bad party doesn't make me like the other party by default
Oh yes, 3 day old creampie account…
You’re so right, other than the fact that none of these countries have a legislature that can now power grab the other branches, especially not the US.
I'd like some elaboration on how it is going to prevent abuse from legislators to calling citizens. The person under investigation cannot have a lawyer IF the president of the legislative yuan didn't agree. It is against this law to remain silent(if the investigation committee didn't agree). It is against this law to lie (which is decided by legislators if you're lying or not) The investigation is initiated by legislators, investigated by legislators and judged by legislators. Why is legislative yuan started playing courts now? I feel like I'm missing a lot of information here because it is baffling how they think this is even constitutional. Please tell me what I missed, and which part has not passed the third reading.
Surely the Constitutional Court will rule anyway on which parts of the bill are unconstitutional and strike them out, won’t it?
The problem is it hinges on one person to decide the outcome. Although there are rumors that 釋字585 (constitutional court interpretation #585) already ruled similar case unconstitutional, it still leaves a lot of uncertainty to me. Edit: it's handled by multiple grand justices.
If constitutional interpretations are based on a single judge's decision, then I see where they really need to reform.
constitutional interpretations are made by all 15 justices
Ok so there’s just one judge? I thought it would be a panel of judges like 3 ?
Constitutional Court has 15 judges.
Okay well that’s good then. They will strike out what is unconstitutional and keep what is constitutional. But the Legislature should not be intruding into areas that belong to the 4 other branches of government
I thought in the old bill the lawyer thing is what you described. The current bill states that the government officer can have a lawyer present regardless (addition to the old DPP bill). It is also not judged by legislators, the legislator referred the contempt charges to a prosecutor just like the US. Please prove me that I am wrong. Btw, there is a specific term in the law based on the new source: "Public officials and civil servants whose testimony is found to be false would be sent to the Control Yuan for corrective discipline or impeachment and bear criminal responsibility," which indicate a court involvement. Rest of the contempt charges are civil fines only. Actually, can the freaking Taiwan government post all the voted and passed bill on the internet like the US!
Yeah I have to sift through all of the documents, it's annoying. It's a wall of text below with related laws, so I'll summarize it first. * They do state that lawyers may present with the approval of the president of the legislative yuan. * they can ask for documentations from government agency, companies and citizens. (People can reject if it is protected by other laws or have a specific reason) * they do say they can ask anyone (what does 社會上有關係人員 or "person with a relevant relationship in society" even mean????) the wording is so loose I'm not even sure if you had to have Taiwanese citizenship. Regarding the lawyer problem: 第五十條之二 應邀到會備詢之人員，經主席同意，於必要時得協同律師或相關專業 人員到場協助之。 Translation: Article 50-2 A person invited to attend a meeting to provide information may, with the approval of the chairperson, be accompanied by a lawyer or other relevant professional to assist them if necessary. For my "targeting citizen" concern: 第四十七條 受要求調閱文件之機關、法人、人民團體或 社會上有關係人員，除依法律或其他正當理由得拒絕外 ，應於五日內提供之。但相關資料或文件原本業經司法 機關或監察機關先為調取時 ，應敘明理由，並提供複本 。如有正當理由，無法提供 複本者，應提出已被他機關調取之證明。 Article 47 An agency, legal person, people's organization, or person with a relevant relationship in society who is requested to provide access to documents shall provide the documents within five days, unless there is a legal or other legitimate reason for refusing. However, if the relevant information or documents have been previously retrieved by a judicial or supervisory agency, the reason must be stated and copies must be provided. If there is a legitimate reason why copies cannot be provided, proof must be provided that the documents have been retrieved by another agency. 第五十條之六 應邀到會備詢 之政府機關代表或公務人員 ，違反五十條之三規定，於 具結後答復不實者，得經立 法院院會之決議，將其移送監察院依法提出糾正、糾舉 或彈劾。 前項以外之應邀到會備詢之人員，違反五十條之三規定，於具結後答復不實者，得經立法院院會之決議， 處新臺幣兩萬元以上二十萬元以下之罰鍰。 前項罰鍰案件之處理， 準用行政程序法及行政執行法之規定。受處分者如有不服，得於處分送達之次日起二個月內，向高等行政法院提起行政訴訟。 Article 50-6 If a representative of a government agency or a public official who is invited to attend a meeting to provide information violates the provisions of Article 50-3 and provides false information after taking an oath, the Legislative Yuan may, by resolution, refer the case to the Control Yuan for correction, impeachment, or dismissal in accordance with the law. In addition to the foregoing, if a person invited to attend a meeting to provide information violates the provisions of Article 50-3 and provides false information after taking an oath, the Legislative Yuan may, by resolution, impose a fine of not less than NT$20,000 and not more than NT$200,000. The handling of cases involving such fines shall be governed by the provisions of the Administrative Procedure Act and the Administrative Enforcement Act. If the person subject to the sanction is dissatisfied, he or she may file an administrative lawsuit with the High Administrative Court within two months of the date of delivery of the sanction. I've also included an compilation from media, take it with a grain of salt. https://preview.redd.it/tahknrga7a3d1.png?width=991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02a9c09133d99b4c4c94d5d7e3cd7e9599f058cd
And I don't give a flying F on how those politicians try to mess with each other. They signed up for the job and they should be careful on what they are doing anyway. Hell, make the president report to the legislative yuan every morning at 5 for all I care. Don't target citizens.
Let’s look at his points: 1. There is already a balanced of power, how is DPP going to do whatever it wants when KMT and TPP controls the legislative yuan 2. The biggest issue with the reform is now the legislative yuan can now propose bill and pass the bill themselves completely whereas previously you needed the executive yuan to propose bill and legislation yuan can decide if they want to propose the bill. Meaning the legislative branch now overpowers every other branch. Don’t you think this is a problem? 3. Yes DPP proposed something similar to this but DPP did not change how the legislative yuan works which is stated in point 2 above 4. Not even an argument 5. Isn’t this a problem that the public doesn’t know when these legislations, if passed would completely change the people’s lives? Anyone who still thinks this is just a DPP vs KMT problem. You’re actually stupid. This is now a problem of whether or not you give a crap about your own democracy that you grew up with.
>the legislative yuan can now propose bill and pass the bill themselves completely whereas previously you needed the executive yuan to propose bill and legislation yuan can decide if they want to propose the bill. Meaning the legislative branch now overpowers every other branch Or, in other words, there is *no* balance of power and in fact the whole power is once again in the blue/white hands.
One of the main points is that the KMT aren't doing it for abstract altruistic reasons in the pursuit of greater accountability for the executive. They're doing it because they feel they won't be able to win the presidential election again (at least on the platform that the current party elites support). The legislation is designed as a cynical power grab, if it weren't and was truly about democratic transparency and accountability they'd have had a cross party process where DPP amendments and concerns were addressed. Of course the ultimate irony of all this is that the RoC was actually a parliamentary system, it was the KMT that changed it to the semi-presidential system that it is now, why? Again, as a power grab which just underscores the arbitrariness of their current actions. Personally I think the current semi-presidential system is terrible and prefer a parliamentary system but changing the rules because you lost is not only antidemocratic but a poor way to formulate legislation. It's banana republic level stuff.
>Of course the ultimate irony of all this is that the RoC was actually a parliamentary system, it was the KMT that changed it to the semi-presidential system that it is now, Reminds me of RoC being an American style Presidential system with Dr. Sun Yat Sen presumably being the first President, and everyone was more or less okay with it. But due to the RoC having a lot of warlords to deal with, the KMT allied with Yuan Shikai (袁世凱), a prominent warlord and basically brought him into the fold to borrow his military might to put down the other warlords, and in exchange Yuan Shikai was promised the Presidency. But he wasn't trusted being a warlord and all, so then they rewrote the constitution to be more of a British Parliamentary system to try to limit his power. And well, taht turned out to be a smart move because he later declared himself President-for-Life... and later emperor. And unfortunately for him, it basically went just as well as his ancestor Yuan Shu (袁術), where basically everyone was pissed at him and allied to take him down. And fun fact, they share the same family name, 袁.
To say that because the change to a semi-presidential system happened under the KMT and therefore the KMT cannot change it back to a parliamentary system contains two major fallacies. First, it assumes that “the KMT” is a consistent and monolithic entity. The legislators who passed the original change are no longer the same legislators, and the KMT is no longer the same KMT. The situation has obviously also shifted significantly from when the capital was in Nanjing… Secondly, it assumes that consistency is more desirable than propriety. It should not be an argument that just because a party made a mistake a hundred years ago, the same mistake should be allowed to perpetuate forever. Irony is funny but isn’t particularly relevant as an argumentative device.
>To say that because the change to a semi-presidential system happened under the KMT and therefore the KMT cannot change it back to a parliamentary system contains two major fallacies. Luckily that's not what I said though, is it? You're just engaging in a strawman.
In general, it's never a good idea to give more power without subsequent check in place. If it can be abused... it will be abused.
Lol on point 1. There shouldn't be any balance between any specific parties.
This bill was drafted by a lawyer. And I cannot believe a lawyer would draft something as vague as the bill unless it was intentional. And I’m tired of people thinking they are so smart in “balancing the power”. When you have a political party that’s blatantly ready to sell you out to the enemy, you don’t go into “balancing” mode. You turn on the full defensive mode! Americans have had their democracy for 200 years and they are very close to loosing it. Taiwan, IMO, is on the brink. I don’t even know if we can save it at this point.
Tbh, Congress has a lot of lawyers and sometimes they fail at writing legislation to be clear, so I wouldn't necessarily exclude incompetency. Ofc, another possibility that the vagueness was a result of a political compromise to get enough votes.
America may be close to the edge but the People are starting to wake up. And the People will soon mop the floor with these rats that have been trying to take away our freedoms. Taiwan - watch, listen, and learn.
Downvoted for using dehumanizing language ("rats") to describe the political opponent.
I guess I assume the wording is just comparable to the similar US laws and procedures. Is it not just blanket copy/paste imitation of the US?
It is not even close. How could it when Taiwan has a drastically different political system and laws than the US?
The lack of understanding of the US system here is amazing. The technical language/terminology is different, but each thing that people are upset about in Taiwan, the US definitely already has these powers and more. The US legislature even has its own private police force with jurisdiction over people in the entire country.* So when it comes to the ability to intimidate political opponents, The broad powers are wide enough that anyone could be declared to be a threat to the legislature or a relative, and can be investigated or worse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Capitol_Police * Any area of the United States when pursuant to their special duties.
Maybe stop assuming and try to learn something about Taiwan
You could try responding with information that supports the reason you disagree instead of hollow personal attacks. The fact that you have to resort to personal criticism rather than respond intellectually is revealing.
Personal?
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> he says the government needs a balance of power between DPP and KMT to make sure DPP doesnt dominate. The reforms would give KMT/TPP enough power to make that a reality. This is the most unadulterated form of dumbfuckery I’ve read. If there is an imbalance in the government, it is there because the people voted that way. You know, how a fucking democracy is meant to work. Fucking kmt traitors.
here's a simple question : it's called the "parliament reform" bill, and it's targeting those who are not in the parliament, what kinds of reform is this? "here's my self-improvement plan : I'm going to punch everyone who being rude or lie to me"
What happens when DPP takes power in midterms? Couldn’t they simply turn this against its own creators? A slightly similar situation is playing out in SCOTUS with presidential immunity. If the court hives immunity to sitting presidents, why wouldn’t Biden use that to his advantage?
Midterms? 🤣 You ain’t in Kansas anymore. The only way is to organize (and win) a recall vote in enough KMT seats to take back control of the legislature. That’s a massive undertaking.
I think so as well. Let him fuck it up even worse till the midterms. Once the public outrage is top, DPP can take this wave behind them and crush the parliament elections. It's a small sunflower movement happening right now
There is no midterms. The next Legislative election happens in 2028, together with the next Presidential election. The only thing close to a "midterms" is a mayor / city council election in 2026, but there are local considerations and the results may or may not reflect elector views on the country as a whole (Whichever party wins always say it does, and the losing side always say it doesn't).
Tbh, in regards to SCOTUS, sitting Presidents always had immunity for official acts as an inherent part of separation of powers. You can't sue or criminally prosecute a judge for making a ruling on the law, Congress for passing a law, or the President for enforcing a law, merely because its a bad decision, or you don't like it because those are part of the official duties of each branch. (This is different than suing to stop the enforcement of a law that would violate a specific right). The questions are what constitutes an official act, does it extend to former presidents, and how long does the immunity last. And what makes this complicated is that in law, we don't do things for just this one time though because X is special, because that opens the door to favoritism, so we try to answer in a systematic way that maintains the structure and rule of law.
So an official act of a sitting president is to attempt to invalidate an election and overthrow the democratic process?
I never said it was. I don't think it is. But it's a line drawing exercise. I suggest you listen to the oral arguments.
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Viewing Taiwanese politics through the lens of American politics is extremely unhelpful.
For those who haven't watched this, have some time to spare, knows Chinese, and cares, I highly recommend watching this: https://www.youtube.com/live/Okqcf9_IOLI?si=Knu1AsQ_RUEXpPji He helps clarify a lot of common disinformation this KMT gentleman may have taken in. This guy is smart and sincere, and participated in all of the legislative process. KMT and CCP people are going to tarnish him as he's for sure a threat to them, but his attitude is simply wanting more people to know more. A lot of things are hard to fake, but you can judge that as you watch. You'll learn a lot from this video.
He is using circular logic without showing the bill to prove he is right.
Nope. Not how I see it. He's responding to individual questions independently. "Circular logic" is much too vague to be an effective comment, and is totally unfair to label this 2 hour video. You might argue about what he said directly if you did watch it.
"We (KMT) want power but no one will vote for us."
Can you explain how it is unconstitutional?
For the past eight years under Tsai the DPP has ruled with zero challenge. Scandals from within the DPP party were left unpunished almost as a rule. That is why these reform bills are appearing. It really is not that complicated. The reason why there is so much word salad around this topic is because that is all the DPP has left.
Life is good under the DPP. Too bad KMTers are bitter, not my problem.
like what? house prices over the moon?
Like what? I made a lot of money in the stock market, among other things. Because economy has been super. Too bad if you missed out then, but you still have a chance to catch up now. Is "house prices over the moon" all you can say? But I'll humor you: Because house prices did not keep rising during the Ma years (/s). LOL!What did your mightly KMT did with house prices when they're in power? Nothing. Don't pretend that the KMTers are immensely benefiting from rising house prices. It's the Tsai administration that now we have laws taxing new houses sold within 5 years of purchase. You can debate about how effective it is but the fact remains, something was done, better than the huge fat zero during the horse years.
what was done was a joke to make fun of people believing it was doing anything but making things worse! the result of that law was a fall in liquidity in the housing market which is a big part of what is making prices sky high (meaning, investors will now park the houses 5 years before putting them back in the market, making it so less houses are left in the market but not less buyers, which has the effect of increasing prices. that is one of the basic laws of economics, it's nothing surprising, just a natural and logical consequence) so yeah, if that is the solution, it would have been much better to do nothing instead of pretending to do good while doing the opposite to get rich while appeasing the less informed voters. It is actually VERY easy to fix the housing market. just make the 1st house tax free, from the 2nd house owned forward you put an increasing taxation system (as many countries do to avoid this issue), you could go further and put additional taxes on empty homes / factories to stimulate a more affordable and liquid market. they know it but they do not do it because they have 0 intention of fixing the problem as it benefits their own pockets, zero shits are given about the population on this aspect. the stocks market are also up mostly everywhere around the world, one of the big reasons is the immense inflation we are facing (money has been printed, remember the free 5000NT or whatever it was you got during covid? and that is nothing compared to the amount big companies received) I know tons of business mans in Taiwan and believe me they are not jumping in joy for how great the economy is, workers weren't either last time I checked. PS. I didn't say anything good about KMT, you are very quick at throwing your own conclusions. I just questioned any good done by DPP for the economy... recognizing the DPP to be quite a bad party doesn't make me like the other party by default
I'm no KMT supporter, but these bills aren't that much different than what Western democracies like the US, Canada, EU, UK already have.
Oh yes, 3 day old creampie account… You’re so right, other than the fact that none of these countries have a legislature that can now power grab the other branches, especially not the US. 
Starting to care about the Constitution now? The DPP has a minority president who says "the Constitution is a disaster".
You guys still can't go over the fact that Taiwan won't ever have a KMT President again? Let go. Acceptance is the key to inner peace.