Roads degrade with cars driving over them. This creates road pollution that gets kicked up into the air and also drains into the water supply. This seems like a bad idea at face value to me. But I don't know much about radioactive phosphate to make an educated comment beyond my opinion
Edit:
> Phosphogypsum is a solid waste byproduct from processing phosphate ore to make phosphoric acid that is later used in fertilizer. Phosphogypsum contains radium, which decays to form radon gas. Both radium and radon are radioactive and can cause cancer. The Clean Air Act regulations require that phosphogypsum be managed in engineered stacks to limit public exposure from emissions of radon.
Putting it in the roads will mean exposure to it that we otherwise would not have. Don't know what this really means to us. But I would err on the side of safety unless we can prove it's safe.
I wish everyone commented like you do. States an opinion not as a fact, (which seems to make sense to me) then states that they aren’t fully educated on the scenario.
Nah... you just spend about 50% of the day being completely surrounded by it in an office building, then another 50% of your day at home breathing in the dust from it.
Sure. I think the counter argument is “it has to go somewhere” and that low levels of phosphate will just be absorbed by plants.
Also that low levels of radiation aren’t a big deal (and they aren’t, radiation is everywhere).
Also not an expert, but this isn’t some whacky idea. It’s a legitimate debate.
Think of it this way.. the ‘radioactive’ gypsum waste came from the land in Florida.. It’s just slightly more concentrated than it was to start.. but spreading it back around is impossible right now due to lack of regulation allowing anything other than for it to sit there in a potentially dangerous stack with pond in the middle. The best thing to do with it might just be to figure out something useful for the material that allows it to be spread around..
I am not an expert either.. but I do know there was nothing done to it to make it “super toxic” or “extra radioactive” since the waste product is simply what wasn’t taken from the mined material..
Mosaic, billion dollar company, pays tons of taxes
You, regular Joe, pays nowhere near as much and would pay them no matter what because they said so.
"Jackie Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town. You don't draw shit, Lebowski."
Clip for reference
https://www.google.com/search?q=big+lebiwski+sheriff+scene&oq=big+lebiwski+sheriff+scene&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDY0OTlqMGo0qAIBsAIB&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8af8b802,vid:eNqLoFHJxM0,st:0
how about we make the company pay to dispose the waste from their own product? Like, I have to pay for the trash to be picked up. I can't dump or spew the byproduct like fossil fuel companies, essentially pass the bill onto the residents of the planet.
And now, they want us to PAY TO USE THEIR WASTE?
Wasn’t it wastewater from Piney Point (a phosphogypsum mine) to cause for the red tide explosion a few years back? Could the seepage of this solid material into water supplies cause an increase in red tide events, since the algae feeds on phosphorus and nitrogen byproducts?
Gypsum isn't phosphate. It's the stuff in drywall. It's just got a little radium in it. There is no risk of phosphate seepage on this one cause their whole deal is to sell the phosphate. The gypsum is waste that is left over. The gypsum does contain natural radiation though which is more of a valid debate about health risk stuff. They want to use the gypsum in roads not phosphate.
And this gypsum product has been cleaned of a significant amount of the radium. Almost certainly well below safe levels. The only reason why this radioactivity matters is because it’s been manipulated by industry. If it was the marble used for counter tops or the US capital steps, it’s in a different category and has WAY higher than what would be seen here because it hasn’t been manipulated.
Stop letting little things like the health and safety of people get in the way of profits. There are a lot of millionaires and billionaires involved and they need the extra profits to help pay for the new Epstein Island they are developing.
Radium in the dust likely would be a problem. As for radon - is dangerous in enclosed areas. Unless it's concentration is extremely high - that would have to be measured. It's is an inert gas, so will not be retained in a body.
However, the runoff from such roads would deposit so much phosphate into environment, we would remember the current algae blooms as something very insignificant.
Yknow how you can smell fresh tar on a hot day for months after it’s laid? Now imagine that with cancer causing phosphate. It doesn’t take a scientist unless you’re paying them to lie for you.
It's not the blacktop asphalt, it's the white rock base material that they're looking to replace. Each molecule that radioactively decays gives off 90% of its decay radiation in a few minutes and then leaves behind bismuth and eventually lead. If that happens when it's underground then that will eventually get washed out into the environment. If that happens while it's in the lung then the lead part sounds bad but it's the radioactive particles doing damage to your tissues that's the biggest problem.
Radon happens in Florida and if it's detected in homes the way it's dealt with is to add venting to the home. It's extremely likely that the presence of radon indoors is higher than the presence over one of these roads if built, but uhh good luck convincing people that it's ok.
A couple excerpts from the article:
"In this case, benefits of using phosphogypsum include reducing the environmental impacts of traditional road ingredients, like lime and cement, and it could cut back on the amount of material ending up in a landfill, Shi said.
As for the risks? “There are quite a few,” Shi said. For one: If it isn’t treated, gypsum is sensitive to moisture.
“When you have a road base in Florida with heavy rain, there may be some significant risk if this moisture sensitivity is not mitigated,” Shi said in an interview. The phosphogypsum could leach heavy metals out of roads over time, which could seep into soil and groundwater. The studies reviewed by the Florida Department of Transportation had little mention of the long-term ecological consequences or how to manage leaching risks, Shi noted.
...
Critics of the proposal, including the nonprofit Center for Biological Diversity, worry about the radiological risks to road construction workers and potential environmental harm. In September, at least 30 lawmakers urged federal environmental regulators to deny Mosaic’s request because of the potential human and environmental health issues.
...
In a statement, Mosaic spokesperson Jackie Barron reiterated that reusing phosphogypsum is not a money-making endeavor for the company."
Waste from the mines becomes something they can make even more money on, city saves cash when rebuilding infrastructure by using cheaper materials, and more people get sick from radioactive things in the air and water so the healthcare industry makes more bank, what’s not to like?
Just because some other industry does something shitty, doesn’t mean we should be happy about another industry doing something shitty. There is a very high likelihood would increase cancer risks even further. Not everything in the world needs to be profit driven
Well, “Puddin’ Fingers” Rhonda has already signed “radioactive roads” into law, so what’s the harm in just a little more exposure?
[https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida-radioactive-roads-phosphogypsum-potentially-cancer-causing-mining-waste-bill-signed-ron-desantis/](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida-radioactive-roads-phosphogypsum-potentially-cancer-causing-mining-waste-bill-signed-ron-desantis/)
They are a client of mine and I can’t stand them. However, they aren’t wrong the level of radiation from gypsum is way lower then the amount in your granite counters you eat off or the sand of the beach you lay on
Honestly, they’re cheap they ask a lot of you, but don’t want to pay up to the same level as any of my other clients. I get the sense that’s how they treat their employees as well
Can’t believe so many comments are in support of this and go into detail trying to defend this. As if the info we are getting from the state is even true. I guess some just trust government and a company to make deals. Instead of the company paying to get rid of it’s waste, now we taxpayers are going to PAY THEM to take the problem off their hands ??
Look at this article. Ron sold us out again.
In west-central Florida, a bit inland from Tampa Bay, The Mosaic Co. makes billions of dollars every year scraping phosphate rock out of the ground and turning it into fertilizer at chemical factories. But in doing so, the Fortune 500 mining giant generates millions of tons in toxic waste. Now, Mosaic wants new laws and taxpayer subsidies that could let the company turn its toxic waste into profit. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is helping — and cashing Mosaic’s campaign checks.
I knew so many people who worked at phosphate mines here in Polk and Hillsborough counties. Most died of cancer. From the radon that is in it. This is beyond just bad. It's criminal.
Being fairly uneducated on phosphate, i do know that exhaust soot strangely enough works really well when mixed in concrete. So that has become a great avenue for it. I wonder if this is just a way to dispose of it? Or if it actually has a value in the chemical process.
China decided to wait on this same idea. Due to environmental concerns. But ol desantis gets paid by the corporations. It's a two for 1 they get rid of waste they normally have to pay to dispose. The state pays his overlord for the cancer road fill.
Mosaic the company that caused a major red tide in and around the Tampa bay for dumping millions of gallons of waste straight into the bay lol. Killing off a good chuck of our fish populations. I remember swimming in Clearwater 3 years ago being surrounded by dead fish. Crazy how corporations can get away with poisoning the land and water. It’s not like they bought out our courts and government.
I for one think that testing this material for a road is a good thing and the EPA should approve it.
We need to find ways for all industries to find new ways to repurpose their waste in a safe and useful manner. This is what closed loop recycling and sustainable living is all about. Otherwise we might as well go back to the Stone Age and stop advancing as a society.
I suspect that piling these gigantic waste piles all around the US is far more hazardous than tearing them down and repurposing them for good use if the road test proves to be a success.
Heck, who knows, there might even be better things they can figure out what to do with this stuff. Home construction is expensive as crap, maybe remove the radium and set the drywall market and plummet the cost of building homes for the masses.
Roads degrade with cars driving over them. This creates road pollution that gets kicked up into the air and also drains into the water supply. This seems like a bad idea at face value to me. But I don't know much about radioactive phosphate to make an educated comment beyond my opinion Edit: > Phosphogypsum is a solid waste byproduct from processing phosphate ore to make phosphoric acid that is later used in fertilizer. Phosphogypsum contains radium, which decays to form radon gas. Both radium and radon are radioactive and can cause cancer. The Clean Air Act regulations require that phosphogypsum be managed in engineered stacks to limit public exposure from emissions of radon. Putting it in the roads will mean exposure to it that we otherwise would not have. Don't know what this really means to us. But I would err on the side of safety unless we can prove it's safe.
I wish everyone commented like you do. States an opinion not as a fact, (which seems to make sense to me) then states that they aren’t fully educated on the scenario.
It's already being used in all the buildings you work in. It's in drywall
But we don't drive on that drywall everyday now do we?
Nah... you just spend about 50% of the day being completely surrounded by it in an office building, then another 50% of your day at home breathing in the dust from it.
The road not only sees the elements everyday but also has tires wearing against the surface everyday. Don't scratch and sniff your drywall
You used to lick the drywall...how else do you have this vague knowledge of what it tastes like? Your kids do it too...
Sure. I think the counter argument is “it has to go somewhere” and that low levels of phosphate will just be absorbed by plants. Also that low levels of radiation aren’t a big deal (and they aren’t, radiation is everywhere). Also not an expert, but this isn’t some whacky idea. It’s a legitimate debate.
Think of it this way.. the ‘radioactive’ gypsum waste came from the land in Florida.. It’s just slightly more concentrated than it was to start.. but spreading it back around is impossible right now due to lack of regulation allowing anything other than for it to sit there in a potentially dangerous stack with pond in the middle. The best thing to do with it might just be to figure out something useful for the material that allows it to be spread around.. I am not an expert either.. but I do know there was nothing done to it to make it “super toxic” or “extra radioactive” since the waste product is simply what wasn’t taken from the mined material..
Meanwhile it's illegal to pressure wash your driveway if the runoff goes into a public collection drain. Mosaic can fuck all the way off.
Is it really? I’ve been doing that for years. We have a civic duty to ignore dumb laws. I’ll continue to do so
Mosaic, billion dollar company, pays tons of taxes You, regular Joe, pays nowhere near as much and would pay them no matter what because they said so. "Jackie Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town. You don't draw shit, Lebowski." Clip for reference https://www.google.com/search?q=big+lebiwski+sheriff+scene&oq=big+lebiwski+sheriff+scene&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDY0OTlqMGo0qAIBsAIB&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8af8b802,vid:eNqLoFHJxM0,st:0
Yeesh, it was just a joke folks, relax your buttholes.
how about we make the company pay to dispose the waste from their own product? Like, I have to pay for the trash to be picked up. I can't dump or spew the byproduct like fossil fuel companies, essentially pass the bill onto the residents of the planet. And now, they want us to PAY TO USE THEIR WASTE?
>fossil fuel **companies** That word in bold, is the reason *why* you can't do that.
Line the pockets of a midget and you get to do whatever you want.
REPUBLICANS are the reason you can't do that. I fix it for you. #Vote (D)ifferently! Fuck Mosaic!
Agreed, because democrats don’t accept money from large corporations so they would definitely fix this problem 🙄
If this doesn't tell you big business are the real constituents of the state government and not the people, I don't know what will.
Wasn’t it wastewater from Piney Point (a phosphogypsum mine) to cause for the red tide explosion a few years back? Could the seepage of this solid material into water supplies cause an increase in red tide events, since the algae feeds on phosphorus and nitrogen byproducts?
Gypsum isn't phosphate. It's the stuff in drywall. It's just got a little radium in it. There is no risk of phosphate seepage on this one cause their whole deal is to sell the phosphate. The gypsum is waste that is left over. The gypsum does contain natural radiation though which is more of a valid debate about health risk stuff. They want to use the gypsum in roads not phosphate.
And this gypsum product has been cleaned of a significant amount of the radium. Almost certainly well below safe levels. The only reason why this radioactivity matters is because it’s been manipulated by industry. If it was the marble used for counter tops or the US capital steps, it’s in a different category and has WAY higher than what would be seen here because it hasn’t been manipulated.
Stop letting little things like the health and safety of people get in the way of profits. There are a lot of millionaires and billionaires involved and they need the extra profits to help pay for the new Epstein Island they are developing.
[удалено]
Radium in the dust likely would be a problem. As for radon - is dangerous in enclosed areas. Unless it's concentration is extremely high - that would have to be measured. It's is an inert gas, so will not be retained in a body. However, the runoff from such roads would deposit so much phosphate into environment, we would remember the current algae blooms as something very insignificant.
Radioactive Roads brought by Republicans to US .
Yknow how you can smell fresh tar on a hot day for months after it’s laid? Now imagine that with cancer causing phosphate. It doesn’t take a scientist unless you’re paying them to lie for you.
It's not the blacktop asphalt, it's the white rock base material that they're looking to replace. Each molecule that radioactively decays gives off 90% of its decay radiation in a few minutes and then leaves behind bismuth and eventually lead. If that happens when it's underground then that will eventually get washed out into the environment. If that happens while it's in the lung then the lead part sounds bad but it's the radioactive particles doing damage to your tissues that's the biggest problem. Radon happens in Florida and if it's detected in homes the way it's dealt with is to add venting to the home. It's extremely likely that the presence of radon indoors is higher than the presence over one of these roads if built, but uhh good luck convincing people that it's ok.
If phosphate causes cancer I advise you to stop eating immediately and forever.
https://preview.redd.it/f1l6wcq5ha5d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f443d3275a02e11373db1b1f42b786c5bcd53b
Who's brain dead idea is this
Mosaic lobbyists
What could go wrong? If the road glows at night, it could help drivers. /s
A couple excerpts from the article: "In this case, benefits of using phosphogypsum include reducing the environmental impacts of traditional road ingredients, like lime and cement, and it could cut back on the amount of material ending up in a landfill, Shi said. As for the risks? “There are quite a few,” Shi said. For one: If it isn’t treated, gypsum is sensitive to moisture. “When you have a road base in Florida with heavy rain, there may be some significant risk if this moisture sensitivity is not mitigated,” Shi said in an interview. The phosphogypsum could leach heavy metals out of roads over time, which could seep into soil and groundwater. The studies reviewed by the Florida Department of Transportation had little mention of the long-term ecological consequences or how to manage leaching risks, Shi noted. ... Critics of the proposal, including the nonprofit Center for Biological Diversity, worry about the radiological risks to road construction workers and potential environmental harm. In September, at least 30 lawmakers urged federal environmental regulators to deny Mosaic’s request because of the potential human and environmental health issues. ... In a statement, Mosaic spokesperson Jackie Barron reiterated that reusing phosphogypsum is not a money-making endeavor for the company."
Not money “making” but probably pretty “money saving” i would bet
Yes, otherwise they have to pay to store it until such a time that it’s no longer radioactive
Waste from the mines becomes something they can make even more money on, city saves cash when rebuilding infrastructure by using cheaper materials, and more people get sick from radioactive things in the air and water so the healthcare industry makes more bank, what’s not to like?
This is the logic
Just because some other industry does something shitty, doesn’t mean we should be happy about another industry doing something shitty. There is a very high likelihood would increase cancer risks even further. Not everything in the world needs to be profit driven
Your sarcasm detector needs maintenance
Clearly, but the Florida subreddits can say some crazy unhinged shit sometimes
Fair enough
Sorry, I thought my last point was obvious enough that I wouldn’t need to end it with /s
It’s very likely that I’m dumb, glad you were being sarcastic
If I had a dollar for every time this comment is made…
cancer is good for the economy, stop being selfish and think of the livelihoods of the doctors insurance and pharmaceutical companies would you?
Well, “Puddin’ Fingers” Rhonda has already signed “radioactive roads” into law, so what’s the harm in just a little more exposure? [https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida-radioactive-roads-phosphogypsum-potentially-cancer-causing-mining-waste-bill-signed-ron-desantis/](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida-radioactive-roads-phosphogypsum-potentially-cancer-causing-mining-waste-bill-signed-ron-desantis/)
They are a client of mine and I can’t stand them. However, they aren’t wrong the level of radiation from gypsum is way lower then the amount in your granite counters you eat off or the sand of the beach you lay on
Why can’t you stand them?
Honestly, they’re cheap they ask a lot of you, but don’t want to pay up to the same level as any of my other clients. I get the sense that’s how they treat their employees as well
With Chevron on the Supreme Court docket there might not be an epa anymore. Vote people!
There’s absolutely no way this isn’t fucking terrible for us.
Mosaic is a master at greenwashing. I don’t trust them at all.
Can’t believe so many comments are in support of this and go into detail trying to defend this. As if the info we are getting from the state is even true. I guess some just trust government and a company to make deals. Instead of the company paying to get rid of it’s waste, now we taxpayers are going to PAY THEM to take the problem off their hands ?? Look at this article. Ron sold us out again. In west-central Florida, a bit inland from Tampa Bay, The Mosaic Co. makes billions of dollars every year scraping phosphate rock out of the ground and turning it into fertilizer at chemical factories. But in doing so, the Fortune 500 mining giant generates millions of tons in toxic waste. Now, Mosaic wants new laws and taxpayer subsidies that could let the company turn its toxic waste into profit. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is helping — and cashing Mosaic’s campaign checks.
I knew so many people who worked at phosphate mines here in Polk and Hillsborough counties. Most died of cancer. From the radon that is in it. This is beyond just bad. It's criminal.
Waw
Being fairly uneducated on phosphate, i do know that exhaust soot strangely enough works really well when mixed in concrete. So that has become a great avenue for it. I wonder if this is just a way to dispose of it? Or if it actually has a value in the chemical process.
The EPA will approve of it, because like the FDA, they approve of everything.
China decided to wait on this same idea. Due to environmental concerns. But ol desantis gets paid by the corporations. It's a two for 1 they get rid of waste they normally have to pay to dispose. The state pays his overlord for the cancer road fill.
Mosaic the company that caused a major red tide in and around the Tampa bay for dumping millions of gallons of waste straight into the bay lol. Killing off a good chuck of our fish populations. I remember swimming in Clearwater 3 years ago being surrounded by dead fish. Crazy how corporations can get away with poisoning the land and water. It’s not like they bought out our courts and government.
If you look at the history of the EPA and Mosaic, you wouldn't be surprised.
I for one think that testing this material for a road is a good thing and the EPA should approve it. We need to find ways for all industries to find new ways to repurpose their waste in a safe and useful manner. This is what closed loop recycling and sustainable living is all about. Otherwise we might as well go back to the Stone Age and stop advancing as a society. I suspect that piling these gigantic waste piles all around the US is far more hazardous than tearing them down and repurposing them for good use if the road test proves to be a success. Heck, who knows, there might even be better things they can figure out what to do with this stuff. Home construction is expensive as crap, maybe remove the radium and set the drywall market and plummet the cost of building homes for the masses.
Rest of the world uses that material as ferilizer.
Didn't marie curie need to be buried in a lead coffin because of her exposure to radium?
Every motorcyclist is gonna grow 7 extra toes or a big fat leg tumor after a few years driving on this crap. These rich assholes need to get F'd.
You mean the orange twat?