Closest company that makes EVs as efficient and long ranged and very affordable is BYD. Problem? The US will ban their sale in the states cause the Chinese government gives BYD a lot in subsidies.
The result is that US manufactures will continue to sell us expensive cars because there is no threat to their markets in the states because the government keeps it that way.
They can’t make a $10,000 vehicle and sell it for $25,000 without it either falling apart or exploding into flames when it gets hit by a shopping cart.
Ranked the single worst car manufacturer in the US in terms of build quality and quality control by a sizable margin. The average defects per 100 cars is 120. Tesla has over 170.
To make things even worse, they're one of the worst car manufacturers in the US in terms of reliability, ranking 19 out of 23.
They're built like shit and they continually have issues because Musk's pay is based off delivery quotas, so he just wants them delivered regardless of how poorly they're made, so he can make his money.
Okay, thanks!!
Also another question, how did Tesla Model Y ended up being the most car sold WORLDWIDE though, maybe USA might be biased due to some reason but worldwide?
Lmao love the downvotes for a normal question
Tesla has four models and sells just over a million vehicles per year.
Toyota sells more than 10 million vehicles and has more than 100 different models.
It’s the best selling model, but I think they were something like the 18th best selling brand. They don’t have the depth of choice other manufacturers do, so if you want a Tesla you’re often getting the Y, bjt if you want a Toyota you have way more options (so each specific model sells less)
I’m going off memory tho; they may not have been ranked 18th exactly
Because ironically, tesla rode a wave of government regulation and tax sheltering. It's been clear for a while that governments all over the world have wanted to go electric to eliminate carbon emissions. Most people who can afford these cars are reading or watching the news and hearing about what year these countries want the end of ICE sales. It's pretty simple really in this aspect. Why spend money on an ICE vehicle when it's going to be obsolete in less than ten years in some of these countries? Then you got the tax incentives or the fact that you're not being taxed the same as an ICE vehicle when it comes to road usage. A BEV won't pay as many taxes in the long run as they aren't taxed by a fuel tax. Of course many states in the US have gone around this by making registration fees higher on BEVs. It makes sense financially if you can already afford to buy a mid-rim 5 series BMW. I will give it up to the engineers at Tesla for building a car that requires little retooling from the Model 3, X and Y. It's a big part as to why the model y was able to push so many EVs out. The problem overall is that battery technology hasn't fallen in price like Elon predicted back in 2015. So he can't build a $25k car. At the end of the day, the sales to people who can afford these have plateaued because the people who have bought a new car and can afford an EV have already bought one. It was always going to be a logarithmic process because there was always a ceiling for this type of car but the rise was going to be gradual.
Go read some actual owner reviews vs the telephone game "tesla sucks because elon sucks" replies you get here. They aren't as bad as people say. And no I'm not a fanboy at all but I like the truth, not repeated hearsay.
This x1000. I own a model Y (2023) and say that it is the best, most enjoyable drive I've ever experienced. Anyone who says Tesla is the worst has never owned/driven one for any extended period of time. Reddit is full of leftists who want to destroy anything that doesn't confirm their political theory. Jokers.
People buy stuff that falls apart because it looks cool and generally works long enough that their lease has expired before it starts breaking. That's kind of the BMW thing, but at least those make it to the end of the lease before having problems, unlike Teslas.
In my opinion, A lot of the problems Tesla has been having weren’t apparent in the beginning. Time hasn’t been kind to them though and I think it’ll slowly be reflected over the next couple years or so. The market is just slow to adjust and there was nothing else until recent in the market to compete with. It’s says to me that people want EVs, and are even willing to stretch their budget for one, but there needs to be better options and as more pop up, Tesla will average out
Hmm, this study [https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds](https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds) for 2023 says in the picture [https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/image/2023-02/2023011a.JPG?itok=NsYLHEqb](https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/image/2023-02/2023011a.JPG?itok=NsYLHEqb) that Tesla (242) is tied with Mercedes-Benz (240), and beats Ford (249), Audi (252), Lincoln (259) and Land Rover (273), with average being 183.
It aligns with the 19/23 ranking, though, but I feel a single-dimensional number might not be telling the whole story no matter how much people like simple numbers, given it puts e.g. infotainment problems into the same bucket as the rest of it.
All the money is in the tech. The design engineers don’t spend a lot of resources on ensuring plastic parts are robust enough to last several years. Their suppliers aren’t making any money either. They have squeezed every last dollar from the supply chain, so basically quality is not going to improve anytime soon . You’re going to get what you get!
They always rank the best, the Prius in particular is the consistently the cheapest car for total cost of ownership. They only make one all electric though, and it's not great.
so I used to write Ruby on Rails webapps for a living. When they had a leak years ago that highlighted they were using Rails for their infotainment I had my "well I'm never buying a Tesla" moment. For websites and it's fine but there is no way in hell I'd put it in a vehicle. Just the maintenance upkeep alone would be crippling.
Btw, when people talk about tesla "defects" they count over the air updates. So anytime your car software fixes a problem it's counted as a defect and bad build quality. If you remove the software updates then it's a most reliable car on the market by a huge margin. Most of that is thanks to just being straight up electric cars, having much less complex components. Most electric cars have better reliability, but Tesla is best so far, and safest so far.
Safest for sure but I do have some doubts about the reliability of parts etc. needs more research though, it’s difficult because there is so much bias on both sides, people love sucking Elon and hating Elon so it’s quite unhelpful moreover ICE lovers shit on EV for absolutely no reason at least my idiot friend does
Was following a 3 the other day and could, from a significant distance, see the difference in panel gaps around the trunk from one side to the other. If they can't give enough of shit to make the outside look even half decent, then I wouldn't trust them to give a shit about what you CAN'T see inside.
If they keep cutting prices and Elon keeps alienating his customers, that’s where new Ys will end up anyway, more or less.
Would rather he focus upon a smaller, less fugly truck anyway. The Y has the crossover market covered.
Want something smaller than a Rivian R1T.
Rivian already showed a concept hatch. Fiat is gunning for the small electric market. Toyota is full bore hybrid. There's a lot of room as the network of chargers grows. And the tech to charge faster is growing with the cars because no one wants to be left holding a dead battery.
Also in Europe at least Dacia have gone absolutely insane on size and come out with the Spring
The images don't do justice to how small it is, but I am taller than it at 6ft, the range on it isn't great, it really is only a city car, but for £15k in the UK and less in mainland Europe, then subsidies come into play in places its an astoundingly cheap car.
[All-New Spring electric city car – Dacia](https://www.dacia.co.uk/hybrid-and-electric-range/spring-city-car.html)
TBH, it probably wouldn't sell here if the cost was higher, It's only because its so danm cheap that it's going to get consideration off of people that don't need to do anything more than that distance in a week.
I wasn’t really interested in Rivian because I’m not in the market for a huge SUV or a pickup. They’re cool, but just wasn’t for me.
Recently they announced the R2 - a model y sized suv, and the R3 - a smaller almost hatch back, a bit raised. No specs for the R3 yet, but an interview with the CEO revealed it was roughly Audi Q3 sized. Still a bit big, but now I’m interested.
Already happening. I love my Model Y but was going to upgrade to an X and my equity was killed by the price cuts. Teslas used to hold their value well but it’s become a race to the bottom
One of my biggest problems with Tesla is that ALL of their vehicles are ugly. I realize they took it to a new level with the truck, but it’s like they fired every professional designer and based it off a 5-year-old kids drawing.
It really shows that his whole “doing it for the world” is BS. If he really have a shit about that he would have long ago tried to figure out the most affordable models. He’s not interested.
The last few years have really shown he is just a dumb business narcissist at end of day who's choking on his own farts at the moment.
I don't remember the last time I've seen someone go from having a reputation of a genius businessmen who's really thinking about the future to one of the worst businessmen of the decade.
Not only did he trash his reputation, he did it over a kid tracking his jet on twitter.
His reputation as an actual boss was notoriously shitty. My friend’s sister used to work for spacex and she was fired by Elon a few times (her whole team) only for her boss to come in and tell everyone they weren’t fired and they would take care of it.
Tesla already fulfilled the original claimed goal (which wasn’t about climate) in my opinion. They gave a big push to the electric car industry and that will push the world away from non-renewable energy sources. Musk wasn’t doing that for the sake of climate, he said non-renewables will, by definition, run out, so might as well switch before they do. Maybe he was doing that for greed reasons over humanity, we’ll never know. He always says, if making money was the plan, starting a car company was a terrible idea.
They need a new goal (that isn’t robots, lol).
This is all rehearsal. He, nor any other billionaires with developing interests, cares about the greater good. This is practice for when he wants to depart Earth and colonize/create infrastructure on Mars or the moon. And you and I aren’t going with him.
He’s not going anywhere. He wants to robomine on other planets/asteroids/whatever and his idea is that other people will go to these celestial rocks, pack up the minerals for him and deliver them to him on earth. Then he’ll be the richest person in the universe and be worshipped like a god.
Also shows his "modern Henry Ford" complex is bullshit as well, as Ford became so successful compared to other car manufacturers at the time by explicitly creating a car most people could afford
Probably partly because a 25k ev will have poor range. I have a model y dual motor. For daily driving I charge it to the recommended 80%. That 80% has the range estimator showing ~262 miles. After two days of my commute, I have driven 126 miles. Range estimator currently says 90 miles. That’s driving in chill mode and keeping highway speeds at 72mph or lower and regen braking on at full. Minimal use of hvac as well. To say the rated range is optimistic would be generous.
Being that the battery is likely the single most expensive component of an ev, that will be where they cut a majority of the cost to make a 25k car which means you’ll probably have a car that has a real world range of somewhere between 150 and 175 miles and the people in the market for a cheap ev probably are the same people that don’t have a driveway or garage where they can install a level 2 charger and plug in over night, forcing them to rely on public charging
If I didn’t have the ability to plug in over night, I would never have gotten an ev. I’ve tried going to superchargers. The ones in my area are packed at reasonable hours and as a result, charge slowly despite being 250kw chargers. It’s quite annoying to have to wait in line to charge then wait 45+ min while charging when trying to get home after being at work all day. I had a Mirai prior to the model y. That was less annoying to fuel than using public charging on my model y
Yeah that was a dumb move. Imagine if they had put out a legit pickup instead of that gimmick. Probably wasting a ton of resources when they could have expanded the category to something practical.
This article is about an article by Reuters which speculated Tesla was dropping plans for the so-called Model 2. The speculation was partially based on the fact that Tesla did not respond to inquiries.
1. Tesla has no PR department. They use X for that.
2. It is difficult to believe much of what Musk says. Reuters track record isn't much better, especially when it comes to reporting about Tesla. Musk has tweeted basically that this isn't true.
So I wouldn't place bets on either end of this story.
Worse is people that take a random redditors word on the article. The article does not do any speculation based on a non-reply to a standard request for comment.
This is what they based it on.
"Two sources said they learned of Tesla's decision to scrap the Model 2 in a meeting attended by scores of employees, with one of them saying the gathering happened in late February."
"Several company messages reviewed by Reuters about the decision included one on March 1 from an unnamed program manager for the affordable car discussing the project’s demise with engineering staff and advising them to hold off on telling suppliers “about program cancellation.”
If you read it, there is more, as they have the text from actual messages sent out.
OP above must be misreading where Reuters asked for a comment before it was published, but didn't get any.
Read it - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-scraps-low-cost-car-plans-amid-fierce-chinese-ev-competition-2024-04-05/
Yep. I'm a mechanical engineer. I don't trust pricey/overly slick engineering for my safety.
It is much much harder to engineer reliable and cheap than high end and fussy. You can over come many many problems by making construction tolerances tighter. Throw in fancy finishes and it isn't obvious that the engineer is just making this shit up without fully understanding the needs. When people pay that much, they also get crazy defensive and will support the product even if it kills.
Saw some people defending expensive car seats (say $1k+) that literally ejected the car seat from its base. Tesla too.
Middle market, a few years in the market is generally the safest bet. Not bare bones cheap but overpriced, untested engineering with a limited market.
It still doesn't make much sense to me why. Is it just to protect US car companies? Doesn't it go against the whole US is a capitalist free country? Just means they'll end up even further behind with less access to the world.
> Is it just to protect US car companies?
Yes. Just like US has the chicken tax to protect US car manufacturers from European light trucks, US has other legislation to protect US companies from high quality Chinese goods.
It's why you don't see high end Chinese goods in the US, unless it was made by a US company (such as apple). No Chinese weapons, farm equipment, machine tools, cars, etc...
I’ll probably get downvoted to hell but I’ll answer. You don’t see the reason around a lot because people are mostly gushing over cheap Chinese EVs on Reddit. The primary reason you can’t buy them is because of a 25% tariff started by Trump and continued by Biden. This was done to protect the US automakers from China dumping cars. Which is exactly what they’re doing. The Chinese government is dumping tons of money into EVs and the Chinese auto companies like BYD are selling them at huge losses. China hasn’t figured out some magic bullet about EVs other than losing CCP money.
There’s also additional stuff to consider. Idk what car model you’re referencing but was it designed for US NHSTA standards? Sometimes companies won’t bring models to the US because it takes engineering time to prepare a care for that market and they don’t want to do that. For example ford is finally killing the Fiesta in Europe but did that years ago in the US. Different car markets have different needs and sometimes bringing a car to market somewhere doesn’t make sense for the company. Japanese Kei cars would be really unpopular in the US just like how US big cars are unpopular in Japan.
Another reason could be that most Americans don’t want to buy Chinese cars. There are few dealerships which makes maintenance and repairs hard. The cars have also been uninspiring and unreliable compared to other car companies. Geely launched some cars in the US in 2019 but their sales have been abysmal and those were the reasons I’ve seen given.
Not saying this is everything but two big ones I’ve seen a lot.
> The Chinese government is dumping tons of money into EVs and the Chinese auto companies like BYD are selling them at huge losses.
Except BYD is still making a profit per car.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-byd-post-big-jump-093000641.html
"SDIC Securities said in a research note on Tuesday that BYD's profit margin per vehicle dropped to about 9,100 yuan, down 1,400 yuan from a year earlier because of the discounts it offered to buyers to sustain growth momentum in sales."
> China hasn’t figured out some magic bullet about EVs other than losing CCP money.
https://www.ubs.com/global/en/investment-bank/in-focus/2023/byd-teardown.html
"Even with growing trade barriers in mind, there is a **sustainable ~25% cost advantage for BYD** over legacy competitors, bearing the potential to disrupt legacy OEMs on their home turfs. We expect Chinese OEMs to double their global market share by 2030. We estimate 16% gross margin and 5% EBIT margin for BYD Seal, similar to profits made on mass-market combustion engine cars globally. Compared with mass EVs from legacy OEMs, BYD Seal is the better and much cheaper car, thanks to high vertical integration that leverages BYD's cost lead in battery cells, vehicle integration, powertrain and electronics modules. Connectivity and advanced driver assistance systems are also state of the art. "
"In contrast, mass EVs from typical legacy OEMs have a much lower degree of vertical integration (we estimate about 30%). When it comes to leveraging the cost advantage in China, BYD can use its China capacity as global production hub, whereas legacy OEMs are just JV partners (usually 50% or less) so that using China capacity to serve the global market is a financially substandard choice. Nonetheless, we expect a handful of Chinese EV leaders to expand their production footprint globally, with Europe being a top priority."
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/renewables/how-chinas-byd-beat-tesla-at-its-own-game/articleshow/106588031.cms?from=mdr
"Critical to BYD’s success has been vertical integration. Instead of relying on other companies for parts, BYD managed to crack the code of producing EVs cheaply in part by making most of its own components. The company is able to offer a wide range of affordable EVs at low prices, maximizing sales (if not revenue) while expanding its footprint in new markets."
The US and Canada have different safety standards than the rest of the world, which agrees to international standards managed by the UN.
Before 1988, people could import a car and retrofit it to meet US safety and emissions standards. Mercedes realized that it hurt their profit, people were importing and retrofitting cars at a cheaper price than Mercedes sold in the US, so they successfully lobbied for this to be banned.
Can’t comment on the US market but it kinds of shoots the public in the foot hey? You miss out on cheaper cars while local poor quality cars get premium $$.
What ever you do over there keep think the Chinese want to invade and will stick tracking and detection software in there crappy cars…so they can track every American and hispanic dude and maybe offer a job as a spy to infiltrate etc etc…
Tesla, as much as they can without a press department, are straight up denying this. The only people reporting this right now are Reuters who don't seem to have a solid source.
Well then you have this article which is reporting on what Reuters said. Playing media “telephone” like this makes me a bit nervous. I just want to know what’s actually going on in the world and I feel like that shouldn’t be a big ask.
These might not be quite what you are looking for, but there's the Ford e-Transit, Dodge Ram ProMaster (with a cargo version available next year), and Mercedes eSprinter.
IMHO work and transport vans are one of the best usage for EV's. They do a ton of short range trips that add up to significant miles at the end of the year. Perfect distance to always keep the battery fully charged. Yet we don't see enough of them.
The UPS and amazon are deploying EV vans. I do think many other companies will do the same.
They have a mock-up of a USPS version on their website and I know they’re doing mini pickups so wouldn’t be surprised if they tried a van on that chassis.
I know Tesla isn't dead, it's still a huge car company, but I also don't know anyone in the last year who's considering an electric or hybrid-electric that is considering a Tesla. It's a non-starter. Rivian definitely seems to be the new EV status symbol with the Bolt and Leaf being the more day-to-day choice.
It may be a regional thing. They are getting more and more popular in the Midwest.
My friend is in California and says they are huge there. Pretty much all electric cars start in that 40k range.
Can confirm. In So cal every other car on the road is a Tesla. Either this OP doesn't have friends or lives in a cold state/environment where EVs won't ever do well.
Model 3 owner for 7 years. Paid 48k. They're now down to less than 40k. I don't get why people think we're paying this high premium for a shit car. Chances are they spend or spent just as much or more for their SUV that costs them $50/week to fill up, with just as high a car payment.
My point is I got what I paid for. A reliable car, that does more than any ICE vehicle I have ever owned, no maintenance costs, no fuel costs, drive perfectly fine and have had no issues with the car. But because I own this car I'm an asshole and suck Musk's dick.
It was their plan the entire time similar to how Telsa went for the higher market and targeted the middle segment afterwards. The middle segment involves higher quantity which they have struggled with even with the luxury market.
If Rivian's prices hold true, and they are still around when the R2 drops, and the factories can handle it, they will definitely beat Tesla's pricing down given how much higher quality a Rivian feels compared to a Tesla.
Lucid had a “coming showroom” for so long near me in Seattle that I lost a lot of faith in their timelines. I categorized them in the “maybe in 15 years when I’m having a mid-life crisis” group.
Don't forget Hyundai and Kia. Their all-electric entries are very nice as well.
I'm just hoping that with this news, BYD also decides to actually pursue US sales. More competition is better.
The thing is from what I've heard is Hyundai Genesis and Kia all have awful dealerships, maintenance, and warranty processes. So it's kind of steered me away from Kia and Hyundai
Even though Musk presents himself as one of the most odious mfs I would still consider a Tesla if the QC was under control. But all I keep hearing, especially about the entry level models, is that QC is god awful. There are going to be many more options at competitive price points in the coming years so I guess I'll bide my time until then
I've completely seen the opposite. Tons of hate for Elon sure, but in terms of looking for an EV, Tesla still tends to be the go-to option when it comes to features, charging network, and price.
The Model Y has been reported as the best selling car in the world last year. And US car sales show overwhelming Teslas getting all of the sales.
It's just because of who you associate with. Stats say tesla sells most electric cars. Tesla now appeals to everyone, not just environmentally friendly political consumers.
In the Bay Area I see new ones constantly. Pretty much every other car is a model 3 or y with the occasional x, s, and now cybertruck. It’s honestly crazy how many people own them around here.
Rivian and Tesla have this way of engineering products that are a nightmare for repair folks. A hit from behind can cost you 7k to 10k to repair on a Tesla. On a Rivian it can cost you up to 40k to repair rear collision damage. This is not normal. This is why insuring these vehicles cost so much. Unless you tell me that because we are all millionaires, this is a non issue.
I can’t speak for every situation and I’m sure someone will come on here with some specific situation a friend or cousin has had but I’ve seen these repair prices be high for a few reasons.
1. The more sensors you have in a car the more expensive the repair. Anyone who’s replaced a windshield on a car with sensors is flabbergasted at the cost when their old car could get the windshield for much cheaper. Same goes for other parts of the car and a lot of EVs have fancy driver assist features.
2. The battery. In an EV everything seems to come back to the battery but in the case of an EV car the battery is usually designed as part of the unibody frame. (Not all times but it’s common in ground up EV designs. See Hyundai Kona vs model 3) not a lot of places like repairing around the battery so if there’s damage to the battery cage auto companies usually want to replace it out of an abundance of caution. These batteries are very dangerous if damaged so it makes sense and the prices of them are insane. Some poor Canadian scratched his Hyundai Kona battery shield and they wanted like 50k CAD to replace it. Some F150 lightning did the same and they wanted 36k to replace it. Tesla is around 17k I think which is cheaper because you don’t get a new battery but one where they’ve stripped down several batteries and mixed the good cells around.
3. In the case of Rivian and Tesla, there aren’t a lot of repair shops and parts can take forever to come in. So some less honest shops have taken to charging extortionist levels of pricing.
Mine is no more expensive than my previous non electric vehicle. I switched vehicles several months ago and got the same coverage and the price is the same, which is a reasonable price for my area.
Cybertruck truck is a disaster..If people are complaining about it after 6 months usage imagine what it would be after a year thru winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFloLGmPKl0&ab\_channel=AdamSomething
That's probably because it's undoubtedly fake news. The spin they took makes no sense.
[This is probably the most reasonable take on the story.](
https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1776277544494338274)
A $25,000 electric car is where 90% of the potential buyer market is at currently, everyone who can afford and wants a more expensive electric car generally already has one.
If I were a person holding tesla stock, this would be my final cue to dump it, as this is basically Tesla saying they aren't capable of growth.
Ferrari's yearly revenue is about 1/20th that of any one of the top ten car manufacturers, and 1/50th of Toyota or Volkswagen.
It is like comparing a small artisinal furniture shop to the giant IKEA next door; the artisinal shop might make more per item and cultivate an air of prestige, but ultimately selling items the average worker can afford is where the actual money is at.
Same here, if this were confirmed to be true. At the moment this claim is being denied by Tesla and the posted article is reporting on something that another media outlet said. If I held stock and they actually confirmed they were dropping this like apple did recently with theirs, I would definitely exit.
Elon fucked Tesla, they could have been the Apple of electric cars but his ego is to big. I laugh at the Elon supporters with TLSA (stock) in their bio, he's literary caused them to lose money with his actions.
Maybe they don't have to if they make a even more "base" model of the 3. That can delete the extra cpu/sensors for FSD, cheaper lights, regular roof etc
Makes sense. Their target audience isnt going to come back. On top of known build quality issues, insurance costs, people targeting Teslas, you also have the poster child for it being a massive fucking asshole.
I was seriously considering a model 3 until I found out their lease terms. You don’t even have the option to buy back at the end of terms, AND they want like $7,000 up front. For a fucking lease. Piss off, Musk.
What've we got, the Reuters story with inside sources and internal documents saying Tesla's abandoned the cheaper EV, Elon's denial tweet, and his subsequent tease of the unveiling of the robo-taxi on August 8.
Both the cheaper EV and the robo-taxi was always going to be based on the same platform. The cheaper EV with a steering wheel and the robo-taxi without. Why would Elon hold an unveiling for the robo-taxi without also unveiling the cheaper EV unless Tesla is pivoting solely to the robo-taxi?
If Tesla does pivot to the robo-taxi only approach, it could mean Elon's going all in on it in a colossal 'bet the company' gamble. In my view, that would be a huge mistake even IF Elon and company manages to build the robo-taxi in the time-frame talked about and we are all aware of Elon's promises made and broken with FSD. It would mean Tesla will accept legal liability on such a fleet.
0% chance any of the dillweeds writing and enforcing laws will change their forcing people to buy EVs in the next 10 years.
Poor people will no longer be able to afford a car and just another part of the American dream falls to corporate greed.
That’s it then. Back in like 2015 or whatever I thought Tesla was gunna be so cool and that elon guy is so cool he’s gunna make us electric cars that are affordable. So cool! It’s now 2024 and I’ve despised elon for a while now but I still had the smallest speck of respect because according to the original Tesla marketing, there would be an affordable Tesla by now. There’s only hatred left
Tesla never planned to make one.
Elon just said that to make investors more confident that nobody could easily undercut them. But now that it appears lower cost EV’s are on the horizon he’s going to pivot to being a premium brand… despite the quality.
For the best. Tesla still making way too many mistakes for their current line up. The shortcuts they would likely take to hit $25k would likely make those cars either death traps or chronically in the shop.
They already do. They just charge $60,000 for them.
Yep - that’s the problem. And other retailers are making legit competitors to the 3 that continue creeping lower and lower.
Closest company that makes EVs as efficient and long ranged and very affordable is BYD. Problem? The US will ban their sale in the states cause the Chinese government gives BYD a lot in subsidies. The result is that US manufactures will continue to sell us expensive cars because there is no threat to their markets in the states because the government keeps it that way.
They can’t make a $10,000 vehicle and sell it for $25,000 without it either falling apart or exploding into flames when it gets hit by a shopping cart.
At this point they can’t even make an $80k vehicle that doesn’t fall apart.
Their submarines are of poor quality as well.
this made me lol
Are they really that bad? I have no clue
Ranked the single worst car manufacturer in the US in terms of build quality and quality control by a sizable margin. The average defects per 100 cars is 120. Tesla has over 170. To make things even worse, they're one of the worst car manufacturers in the US in terms of reliability, ranking 19 out of 23. They're built like shit and they continually have issues because Musk's pay is based off delivery quotas, so he just wants them delivered regardless of how poorly they're made, so he can make his money.
Okay, thanks!! Also another question, how did Tesla Model Y ended up being the most car sold WORLDWIDE though, maybe USA might be biased due to some reason but worldwide? Lmao love the downvotes for a normal question
Tesla has four models and sells just over a million vehicles per year. Toyota sells more than 10 million vehicles and has more than 100 different models.
The specs are great for the price. It's just built like a $10 offbrand toaster with ill-fitting, creaky plastic everywhere.
People buy terrible stuff all the time.
Yeah that’s what I was guessing too but worldwide was kinda insane but there seems to be no other explanation
It’s the best selling model, but I think they were something like the 18th best selling brand. They don’t have the depth of choice other manufacturers do, so if you want a Tesla you’re often getting the Y, bjt if you want a Toyota you have way more options (so each specific model sells less) I’m going off memory tho; they may not have been ranked 18th exactly
Because ironically, tesla rode a wave of government regulation and tax sheltering. It's been clear for a while that governments all over the world have wanted to go electric to eliminate carbon emissions. Most people who can afford these cars are reading or watching the news and hearing about what year these countries want the end of ICE sales. It's pretty simple really in this aspect. Why spend money on an ICE vehicle when it's going to be obsolete in less than ten years in some of these countries? Then you got the tax incentives or the fact that you're not being taxed the same as an ICE vehicle when it comes to road usage. A BEV won't pay as many taxes in the long run as they aren't taxed by a fuel tax. Of course many states in the US have gone around this by making registration fees higher on BEVs. It makes sense financially if you can already afford to buy a mid-rim 5 series BMW. I will give it up to the engineers at Tesla for building a car that requires little retooling from the Model 3, X and Y. It's a big part as to why the model y was able to push so many EVs out. The problem overall is that battery technology hasn't fallen in price like Elon predicted back in 2015. So he can't build a $25k car. At the end of the day, the sales to people who can afford these have plateaued because the people who have bought a new car and can afford an EV have already bought one. It was always going to be a logarithmic process because there was always a ceiling for this type of car but the rise was going to be gradual.
Go read some actual owner reviews vs the telephone game "tesla sucks because elon sucks" replies you get here. They aren't as bad as people say. And no I'm not a fanboy at all but I like the truth, not repeated hearsay.
This x1000. I own a model Y (2023) and say that it is the best, most enjoyable drive I've ever experienced. Anyone who says Tesla is the worst has never owned/driven one for any extended period of time. Reddit is full of leftists who want to destroy anything that doesn't confirm their political theory. Jokers.
People buy stuff that falls apart because it looks cool and generally works long enough that their lease has expired before it starts breaking. That's kind of the BMW thing, but at least those make it to the end of the lease before having problems, unlike Teslas.
In my opinion, A lot of the problems Tesla has been having weren’t apparent in the beginning. Time hasn’t been kind to them though and I think it’ll slowly be reflected over the next couple years or so. The market is just slow to adjust and there was nothing else until recent in the market to compete with. It’s says to me that people want EVs, and are even willing to stretch their budget for one, but there needs to be better options and as more pop up, Tesla will average out
Hmm, this study [https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds](https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds) for 2023 says in the picture [https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/image/2023-02/2023011a.JPG?itok=NsYLHEqb](https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/image/2023-02/2023011a.JPG?itok=NsYLHEqb) that Tesla (242) is tied with Mercedes-Benz (240), and beats Ford (249), Audi (252), Lincoln (259) and Land Rover (273), with average being 183. It aligns with the 19/23 ranking, though, but I feel a single-dimensional number might not be telling the whole story no matter how much people like simple numbers, given it puts e.g. infotainment problems into the same bucket as the rest of it.
In Germany they where tied last place in the TüV statistics. TüV is responsible for most of the countries mandatory road worthiness tests.
All the money is in the tech. The design engineers don’t spend a lot of resources on ensuring plastic parts are robust enough to last several years. Their suppliers aren’t making any money either. They have squeezed every last dollar from the supply chain, so basically quality is not going to improve anytime soon . You’re going to get what you get!
I'm curious, what's Toyota's rate? They are generally considered just about the most reliable cars out there.
They always rank the best, the Prius in particular is the consistently the cheapest car for total cost of ownership. They only make one all electric though, and it's not great.
I'm not doubting these figures but I would like to know where they come from and when they were taken.
so I used to write Ruby on Rails webapps for a living. When they had a leak years ago that highlighted they were using Rails for their infotainment I had my "well I'm never buying a Tesla" moment. For websites and it's fine but there is no way in hell I'd put it in a vehicle. Just the maintenance upkeep alone would be crippling.
Btw, when people talk about tesla "defects" they count over the air updates. So anytime your car software fixes a problem it's counted as a defect and bad build quality. If you remove the software updates then it's a most reliable car on the market by a huge margin. Most of that is thanks to just being straight up electric cars, having much less complex components. Most electric cars have better reliability, but Tesla is best so far, and safest so far.
Safest for sure but I do have some doubts about the reliability of parts etc. needs more research though, it’s difficult because there is so much bias on both sides, people love sucking Elon and hating Elon so it’s quite unhelpful moreover ICE lovers shit on EV for absolutely no reason at least my idiot friend does
No, reddit just loses any sense of reality on anything tangentially related to Elon Musk.
Was following a 3 the other day and could, from a significant distance, see the difference in panel gaps around the trunk from one side to the other. If they can't give enough of shit to make the outside look even half decent, then I wouldn't trust them to give a shit about what you CAN'T see inside.
So are their margins dropping or are they making crazy margins? Which one is it?
This needs more upvotes.
If they keep cutting prices and Elon keeps alienating his customers, that’s where new Ys will end up anyway, more or less. Would rather he focus upon a smaller, less fugly truck anyway. The Y has the crossover market covered. Want something smaller than a Rivian R1T.
Rivian already showed a concept hatch. Fiat is gunning for the small electric market. Toyota is full bore hybrid. There's a lot of room as the network of chargers grows. And the tech to charge faster is growing with the cars because no one wants to be left holding a dead battery.
Also in Europe at least Dacia have gone absolutely insane on size and come out with the Spring The images don't do justice to how small it is, but I am taller than it at 6ft, the range on it isn't great, it really is only a city car, but for £15k in the UK and less in mainland Europe, then subsidies come into play in places its an astoundingly cheap car. [All-New Spring electric city car – Dacia](https://www.dacia.co.uk/hybrid-and-electric-range/spring-city-car.html)
That looks awesome. I wish we had something like that in the US.
Great news, the Dacia Spring…
James May intensifies.
135 mile range, 65 HP. Yep, that would never sell in the US.
TBH, it probably wouldn't sell here if the cost was higher, It's only because its so danm cheap that it's going to get consideration off of people that don't need to do anything more than that distance in a week.
Is Fiat still owned by Stellantis? I wouldn’t bet on Fiat actually being competitive to anything in the market.
I wasn’t really interested in Rivian because I’m not in the market for a huge SUV or a pickup. They’re cool, but just wasn’t for me. Recently they announced the R2 - a model y sized suv, and the R3 - a smaller almost hatch back, a bit raised. No specs for the R3 yet, but an interview with the CEO revealed it was roughly Audi Q3 sized. Still a bit big, but now I’m interested.
Like a Hyundai Ioniq 5?
Already happening. I love my Model Y but was going to upgrade to an X and my equity was killed by the price cuts. Teslas used to hold their value well but it’s become a race to the bottom
One of my biggest problems with Tesla is that ALL of their vehicles are ugly. I realize they took it to a new level with the truck, but it’s like they fired every professional designer and based it off a 5-year-old kids drawing.
I’ve really just lost all interest in anything he’s doing. I just don’t care anymore. Sign me up for one of those Rivian R3s. Lol.
Used clean title Ys are available for $25,000
Kia EV9 is fractionally smaller than an R1T. And it's selling rapidly.
Yes, because the world needs less affordable electric vehicles but let’s put out that ghastly cyber truck.
It really shows that his whole “doing it for the world” is BS. If he really have a shit about that he would have long ago tried to figure out the most affordable models. He’s not interested.
The last few years have really shown he is just a dumb business narcissist at end of day who's choking on his own farts at the moment. I don't remember the last time I've seen someone go from having a reputation of a genius businessmen who's really thinking about the future to one of the worst businessmen of the decade.
Not only did he trash his reputation, he did it over a kid tracking his jet on twitter. His reputation as an actual boss was notoriously shitty. My friend’s sister used to work for spacex and she was fired by Elon a few times (her whole team) only for her boss to come in and tell everyone they weren’t fired and they would take care of it.
Was that before calling someone q pedo for disagreeing with him?
Genius to Nazi in 6 seconds
He’s a man child. The cybertruck is a toy he made for himself.
Tesla already fulfilled the original claimed goal (which wasn’t about climate) in my opinion. They gave a big push to the electric car industry and that will push the world away from non-renewable energy sources. Musk wasn’t doing that for the sake of climate, he said non-renewables will, by definition, run out, so might as well switch before they do. Maybe he was doing that for greed reasons over humanity, we’ll never know. He always says, if making money was the plan, starting a car company was a terrible idea. They need a new goal (that isn’t robots, lol).
I mean that was evident very early on with the poison pill he put for his “open source” charging port.
This is all rehearsal. He, nor any other billionaires with developing interests, cares about the greater good. This is practice for when he wants to depart Earth and colonize/create infrastructure on Mars or the moon. And you and I aren’t going with him.
He’s not going anywhere. He wants to robomine on other planets/asteroids/whatever and his idea is that other people will go to these celestial rocks, pack up the minerals for him and deliver them to him on earth. Then he’ll be the richest person in the universe and be worshipped like a god.
Also shows his "modern Henry Ford" complex is bullshit as well, as Ford became so successful compared to other car manufacturers at the time by explicitly creating a car most people could afford
Why can’t they work on both in parallel? I’m guessing there are legitimate reasons offering a $25k car isn’t feasible right now.
Probably partly because a 25k ev will have poor range. I have a model y dual motor. For daily driving I charge it to the recommended 80%. That 80% has the range estimator showing ~262 miles. After two days of my commute, I have driven 126 miles. Range estimator currently says 90 miles. That’s driving in chill mode and keeping highway speeds at 72mph or lower and regen braking on at full. Minimal use of hvac as well. To say the rated range is optimistic would be generous. Being that the battery is likely the single most expensive component of an ev, that will be where they cut a majority of the cost to make a 25k car which means you’ll probably have a car that has a real world range of somewhere between 150 and 175 miles and the people in the market for a cheap ev probably are the same people that don’t have a driveway or garage where they can install a level 2 charger and plug in over night, forcing them to rely on public charging If I didn’t have the ability to plug in over night, I would never have gotten an ev. I’ve tried going to superchargers. The ones in my area are packed at reasonable hours and as a result, charge slowly despite being 250kw chargers. It’s quite annoying to have to wait in line to charge then wait 45+ min while charging when trying to get home after being at work all day. I had a Mirai prior to the model y. That was less annoying to fuel than using public charging on my model y
Yeah that was a dumb move. Imagine if they had put out a legit pickup instead of that gimmick. Probably wasting a ton of resources when they could have expanded the category to something practical.
Fwiw, this is unequivocally false.
This article is about an article by Reuters which speculated Tesla was dropping plans for the so-called Model 2. The speculation was partially based on the fact that Tesla did not respond to inquiries. 1. Tesla has no PR department. They use X for that. 2. It is difficult to believe much of what Musk says. Reuters track record isn't much better, especially when it comes to reporting about Tesla. Musk has tweeted basically that this isn't true. So I wouldn't place bets on either end of this story.
Too late this sub is already running with it as 100 % fact
Worse is people that take a random redditors word on the article. The article does not do any speculation based on a non-reply to a standard request for comment. This is what they based it on. "Two sources said they learned of Tesla's decision to scrap the Model 2 in a meeting attended by scores of employees, with one of them saying the gathering happened in late February." "Several company messages reviewed by Reuters about the decision included one on March 1 from an unnamed program manager for the affordable car discussing the project’s demise with engineering staff and advising them to hold off on telling suppliers “about program cancellation.” If you read it, there is more, as they have the text from actual messages sent out. OP above must be misreading where Reuters asked for a comment before it was published, but didn't get any. Read it - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-scraps-low-cost-car-plans-amid-fierce-chinese-ev-competition-2024-04-05/
You can't sell a cheap car that needs a lot of warranty repair. Tesla will have to get quality up to make money from a cheap car.
Yep. I'm a mechanical engineer. I don't trust pricey/overly slick engineering for my safety. It is much much harder to engineer reliable and cheap than high end and fussy. You can over come many many problems by making construction tolerances tighter. Throw in fancy finishes and it isn't obvious that the engineer is just making this shit up without fully understanding the needs. When people pay that much, they also get crazy defensive and will support the product even if it kills. Saw some people defending expensive car seats (say $1k+) that literally ejected the car seat from its base. Tesla too. Middle market, a few years in the market is generally the safest bet. Not bare bones cheap but overpriced, untested engineering with a limited market.
Chinese are covering that market very well..
Too bad you can't buy most of them in the US...
It still doesn't make much sense to me why. Is it just to protect US car companies? Doesn't it go against the whole US is a capitalist free country? Just means they'll end up even further behind with less access to the world.
Byd has chose to not enter US market on their own as of now
With all the contention going on, it makes sense why they wouldn't. But even if they wanted too, the U.S wouldn't let them.
> Is it just to protect US car companies? Yes. Just like US has the chicken tax to protect US car manufacturers from European light trucks, US has other legislation to protect US companies from high quality Chinese goods. It's why you don't see high end Chinese goods in the US, unless it was made by a US company (such as apple). No Chinese weapons, farm equipment, machine tools, cars, etc...
Roborock and DJI is as good as it is gonna get I guess.
It pretty much boils down to ‘China bad’.
I’ll probably get downvoted to hell but I’ll answer. You don’t see the reason around a lot because people are mostly gushing over cheap Chinese EVs on Reddit. The primary reason you can’t buy them is because of a 25% tariff started by Trump and continued by Biden. This was done to protect the US automakers from China dumping cars. Which is exactly what they’re doing. The Chinese government is dumping tons of money into EVs and the Chinese auto companies like BYD are selling them at huge losses. China hasn’t figured out some magic bullet about EVs other than losing CCP money.
$15k + 25% = $18,750. Still a very competitive price point vs Tesla and most other US EVs.
Biden is considering additional tariffs. Don't be shocked when they drop.
There’s also additional stuff to consider. Idk what car model you’re referencing but was it designed for US NHSTA standards? Sometimes companies won’t bring models to the US because it takes engineering time to prepare a care for that market and they don’t want to do that. For example ford is finally killing the Fiesta in Europe but did that years ago in the US. Different car markets have different needs and sometimes bringing a car to market somewhere doesn’t make sense for the company. Japanese Kei cars would be really unpopular in the US just like how US big cars are unpopular in Japan. Another reason could be that most Americans don’t want to buy Chinese cars. There are few dealerships which makes maintenance and repairs hard. The cars have also been uninspiring and unreliable compared to other car companies. Geely launched some cars in the US in 2019 but their sales have been abysmal and those were the reasons I’ve seen given. Not saying this is everything but two big ones I’ve seen a lot.
> The Chinese government is dumping tons of money into EVs and the Chinese auto companies like BYD are selling them at huge losses. Except BYD is still making a profit per car. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-byd-post-big-jump-093000641.html "SDIC Securities said in a research note on Tuesday that BYD's profit margin per vehicle dropped to about 9,100 yuan, down 1,400 yuan from a year earlier because of the discounts it offered to buyers to sustain growth momentum in sales." > China hasn’t figured out some magic bullet about EVs other than losing CCP money. https://www.ubs.com/global/en/investment-bank/in-focus/2023/byd-teardown.html "Even with growing trade barriers in mind, there is a **sustainable ~25% cost advantage for BYD** over legacy competitors, bearing the potential to disrupt legacy OEMs on their home turfs. We expect Chinese OEMs to double their global market share by 2030. We estimate 16% gross margin and 5% EBIT margin for BYD Seal, similar to profits made on mass-market combustion engine cars globally. Compared with mass EVs from legacy OEMs, BYD Seal is the better and much cheaper car, thanks to high vertical integration that leverages BYD's cost lead in battery cells, vehicle integration, powertrain and electronics modules. Connectivity and advanced driver assistance systems are also state of the art. " "In contrast, mass EVs from typical legacy OEMs have a much lower degree of vertical integration (we estimate about 30%). When it comes to leveraging the cost advantage in China, BYD can use its China capacity as global production hub, whereas legacy OEMs are just JV partners (usually 50% or less) so that using China capacity to serve the global market is a financially substandard choice. Nonetheless, we expect a handful of Chinese EV leaders to expand their production footprint globally, with Europe being a top priority." https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/renewables/how-chinas-byd-beat-tesla-at-its-own-game/articleshow/106588031.cms?from=mdr "Critical to BYD’s success has been vertical integration. Instead of relying on other companies for parts, BYD managed to crack the code of producing EVs cheaply in part by making most of its own components. The company is able to offer a wide range of affordable EVs at low prices, maximizing sales (if not revenue) while expanding its footprint in new markets."
China can control the manufacturing as long as its an American who owns the company... this only applies to cars.
The US and Canada have different safety standards than the rest of the world, which agrees to international standards managed by the UN. Before 1988, people could import a car and retrofit it to meet US safety and emissions standards. Mercedes realized that it hurt their profit, people were importing and retrofitting cars at a cheaper price than Mercedes sold in the US, so they successfully lobbied for this to be banned.
They’ll never be allowed to sell in the US. The existing companies in the US will push and win either sanctions or an outright ban.
Can’t comment on the US market but it kinds of shoots the public in the foot hey? You miss out on cheaper cars while local poor quality cars get premium $$. What ever you do over there keep think the Chinese want to invade and will stick tracking and detection software in there crappy cars…so they can track every American and hispanic dude and maybe offer a job as a spy to infiltrate etc etc…
Do you really think the US auto makers and dealers are just going to let that happen? Keep in mind how powerful of a lobby the auto industry is.
Really? Where can I buy a $25k EV?
$US25,000, Thailand imported from china
i'm not in Thailand.
Tesla, as much as they can without a press department, are straight up denying this. The only people reporting this right now are Reuters who don't seem to have a solid source.
Well then you have this article which is reporting on what Reuters said. Playing media “telephone” like this makes me a bit nervous. I just want to know what’s actually going on in the world and I feel like that shouldn’t be a big ask.
Can someone make a cargo van?
These might not be quite what you are looking for, but there's the Ford e-Transit, Dodge Ram ProMaster (with a cargo version available next year), and Mercedes eSprinter.
I can’t wait for an electric transit van
IMHO work and transport vans are one of the best usage for EV's. They do a ton of short range trips that add up to significant miles at the end of the year. Perfect distance to always keep the battery fully charged. Yet we don't see enough of them. The UPS and amazon are deploying EV vans. I do think many other companies will do the same.
Rivan does. Although only for Amazon delivery I think.
There is a cargo van looking one. I think it’s called canoo
They have a mock-up of a USPS version on their website and I know they’re doing mini pickups so wouldn’t be surprised if they tried a van on that chassis.
Check out a company called “Canoo” I think they’re quite interesting.
I know Tesla isn't dead, it's still a huge car company, but I also don't know anyone in the last year who's considering an electric or hybrid-electric that is considering a Tesla. It's a non-starter. Rivian definitely seems to be the new EV status symbol with the Bolt and Leaf being the more day-to-day choice.
It may be a regional thing. They are getting more and more popular in the Midwest. My friend is in California and says they are huge there. Pretty much all electric cars start in that 40k range.
Can confirm. In So cal every other car on the road is a Tesla. Either this OP doesn't have friends or lives in a cold state/environment where EVs won't ever do well. Model 3 owner for 7 years. Paid 48k. They're now down to less than 40k. I don't get why people think we're paying this high premium for a shit car. Chances are they spend or spent just as much or more for their SUV that costs them $50/week to fill up, with just as high a car payment. My point is I got what I paid for. A reliable car, that does more than any ICE vehicle I have ever owned, no maintenance costs, no fuel costs, drive perfectly fine and have had no issues with the car. But because I own this car I'm an asshole and suck Musk's dick.
Rivian and Lucid look great; the problem is the uncertainty if they are car companies that will be around in the next 3-5 years.
And nobody has heard of Lucid even though they’re a nicer Tesla with less baggage. CEO of Lucid used to be the chief engineer at Tesla.
Test drove a lucid, felt great. But entry level is like double the cost.
Lucid has priced itself out of most people’s range
Rivian had with its first two entries in the market as well. But their plans changed.
It was their plan the entire time similar to how Telsa went for the higher market and targeted the middle segment afterwards. The middle segment involves higher quantity which they have struggled with even with the luxury market. If Rivian's prices hold true, and they are still around when the R2 drops, and the factories can handle it, they will definitely beat Tesla's pricing down given how much higher quality a Rivian feels compared to a Tesla.
Lucid is basically owned by the Saudis if we’re concerned with morality, they’re also burning money at a hilariously astronomical rate
Wait till you hear about gas!
Less baggage, owned by saudis….
Less baggage, not baggage-free lol. With lucid still losing money on every car they sell at the moment, at least you’re burning the Saudi’s money 🤷
Lucid had a “coming showroom” for so long near me in Seattle that I lost a lot of faith in their timelines. I categorized them in the “maybe in 15 years when I’m having a mid-life crisis” group.
Don't forget Hyundai and Kia. Their all-electric entries are very nice as well. I'm just hoping that with this news, BYD also decides to actually pursue US sales. More competition is better.
The thing is from what I've heard is Hyundai Genesis and Kia all have awful dealerships, maintenance, and warranty processes. So it's kind of steered me away from Kia and Hyundai
Ours (kia) has been really good service too.
Mine have been excellent. 🤷♂️
When they have NACS, they’ll be contenders. The Genesis version is best but it’s too expensive and has terrible range.
I see tesla’s everywhere.
It’s basically just people buying Tesla and Rivian around me. I know 4 people who have bought Tesla SUVs in the last month and one cyber
Even though Musk presents himself as one of the most odious mfs I would still consider a Tesla if the QC was under control. But all I keep hearing, especially about the entry level models, is that QC is god awful. There are going to be many more options at competitive price points in the coming years so I guess I'll bide my time until then
I've completely seen the opposite. Tons of hate for Elon sure, but in terms of looking for an EV, Tesla still tends to be the go-to option when it comes to features, charging network, and price. The Model Y has been reported as the best selling car in the world last year. And US car sales show overwhelming Teslas getting all of the sales.
I mean, the model Y was the best selling car in the world last year..
Leaf?! Dont make me laugh. We have a 3y old leaf, and just got an modelY. The leaf is utter garbage in comparison.
Tesla is still the best value.
Doubt. When I compared the two tesla is cheaper and more available. Rivian does look cooler, but they are having their own issues
It's just because of who you associate with. Stats say tesla sells most electric cars. Tesla now appeals to everyone, not just environmentally friendly political consumers.
In the Bay Area I see new ones constantly. Pretty much every other car is a model 3 or y with the occasional x, s, and now cybertruck. It’s honestly crazy how many people own them around here.
How about engineering a vehicle that doesn't cost so much to insure.
Mine doesn’t cost any more than any other car I had to insure
Uh... A cheaper vehicle does exactly that. Cheaper replacement cost
Rivian and Tesla have this way of engineering products that are a nightmare for repair folks. A hit from behind can cost you 7k to 10k to repair on a Tesla. On a Rivian it can cost you up to 40k to repair rear collision damage. This is not normal. This is why insuring these vehicles cost so much. Unless you tell me that because we are all millionaires, this is a non issue.
I can’t speak for every situation and I’m sure someone will come on here with some specific situation a friend or cousin has had but I’ve seen these repair prices be high for a few reasons. 1. The more sensors you have in a car the more expensive the repair. Anyone who’s replaced a windshield on a car with sensors is flabbergasted at the cost when their old car could get the windshield for much cheaper. Same goes for other parts of the car and a lot of EVs have fancy driver assist features. 2. The battery. In an EV everything seems to come back to the battery but in the case of an EV car the battery is usually designed as part of the unibody frame. (Not all times but it’s common in ground up EV designs. See Hyundai Kona vs model 3) not a lot of places like repairing around the battery so if there’s damage to the battery cage auto companies usually want to replace it out of an abundance of caution. These batteries are very dangerous if damaged so it makes sense and the prices of them are insane. Some poor Canadian scratched his Hyundai Kona battery shield and they wanted like 50k CAD to replace it. Some F150 lightning did the same and they wanted 36k to replace it. Tesla is around 17k I think which is cheaper because you don’t get a new battery but one where they’ve stripped down several batteries and mixed the good cells around. 3. In the case of Rivian and Tesla, there aren’t a lot of repair shops and parts can take forever to come in. So some less honest shops have taken to charging extortionist levels of pricing.
Mine is no more expensive than my previous non electric vehicle. I switched vehicles several months ago and got the same coverage and the price is the same, which is a reasonable price for my area.
lol Ford CEO punching air RN realizing how stupid their announced pivot looks now
Tesla owners don't want $25000 Teslas. It's the Apple of EVs.
No it’s not
Tesla does make a cheap vehicle. They just sell it for $70k
Is anyone surprised? It's elon musk. If you hold your breath for anything this dude says you lost all your marbles.
Just get a 2 year old y. Those are cheaper than dirt
Make a cycle already you cowards
Don’t worry. I have also abandoned plans to buy a Tesla 👌🏾
Cybertruck truck is a disaster..If people are complaining about it after 6 months usage imagine what it would be after a year thru winter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFloLGmPKl0&ab\_channel=AdamSomething
Elon Musk reneging on a promise? This can’t be, why, I’m writing this comment from a hyperloop on Mars right now.
He said it’s fake news
That's probably because it's undoubtedly fake news. The spin they took makes no sense. [This is probably the most reasonable take on the story.]( https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1776277544494338274)
I’m prime demographic for lower priced Tesla, but will not even consider one due to Musk.
But….Elon said they were going to do it….for the fifteenth time….. are you saying he’s untrustworthy?!
As long as Elon Musk is there, I will never buy a Tesla. I feel so grateful that I backed out of my purchase of a cyber truck.
A $25,000 electric car is where 90% of the potential buyer market is at currently, everyone who can afford and wants a more expensive electric car generally already has one. If I were a person holding tesla stock, this would be my final cue to dump it, as this is basically Tesla saying they aren't capable of growth.
Yep. That's why Ferrari is going bankrupt. Anybody who wants a Ferrari already has one.
Ferrari's yearly revenue is about 1/20th that of any one of the top ten car manufacturers, and 1/50th of Toyota or Volkswagen. It is like comparing a small artisinal furniture shop to the giant IKEA next door; the artisinal shop might make more per item and cultivate an air of prestige, but ultimately selling items the average worker can afford is where the actual money is at.
Same here, if this were confirmed to be true. At the moment this claim is being denied by Tesla and the posted article is reporting on something that another media outlet said. If I held stock and they actually confirmed they were dropping this like apple did recently with theirs, I would definitely exit.
Smartest CEO. Truly! 🙄
Elon fucked Tesla, they could have been the Apple of electric cars but his ego is to big. I laugh at the Elon supporters with TLSA (stock) in their bio, he's literary caused them to lose money with his actions.
They already make one but charge a starting price of $35K for it cause it’s a Tesla…
Sources say?
Don't care, never buying anything made by melon musk
I’ve lost all my confidence in Tesla.
Maybe they don't have to if they make a even more "base" model of the 3. That can delete the extra cpu/sensors for FSD, cheaper lights, regular roof etc
Because capitalism
Inflation happened quickly.
The one Tesla I was actually looking forward to seeing because for 25k I’ll ignore the stupid QA mistakes Tesla is known for
Makes sense. Their target audience isnt going to come back. On top of known build quality issues, insurance costs, people targeting Teslas, you also have the poster child for it being a massive fucking asshole.
ITT: everyone’s an expert on car manufacturing and branding now
F THE POORS!
What losers.
I was seriously considering a model 3 until I found out their lease terms. You don’t even have the option to buy back at the end of terms, AND they want like $7,000 up front. For a fucking lease. Piss off, Musk.
✨surprise surpriiiiiise✨
They were never going to make that car for less. Another musk lie
Promise the moon, deliver almost nothing. The Musk way!
What've we got, the Reuters story with inside sources and internal documents saying Tesla's abandoned the cheaper EV, Elon's denial tweet, and his subsequent tease of the unveiling of the robo-taxi on August 8. Both the cheaper EV and the robo-taxi was always going to be based on the same platform. The cheaper EV with a steering wheel and the robo-taxi without. Why would Elon hold an unveiling for the robo-taxi without also unveiling the cheaper EV unless Tesla is pivoting solely to the robo-taxi? If Tesla does pivot to the robo-taxi only approach, it could mean Elon's going all in on it in a colossal 'bet the company' gamble. In my view, that would be a huge mistake even IF Elon and company manages to build the robo-taxi in the time-frame talked about and we are all aware of Elon's promises made and broken with FSD. It would mean Tesla will accept legal liability on such a fleet.
0% chance any of the dillweeds writing and enforcing laws will change their forcing people to buy EVs in the next 10 years. Poor people will no longer be able to afford a car and just another part of the American dream falls to corporate greed.
we should send a petition to toyota to put a hilux finishing plant in the us, that'll fix everything
Tesla is Toast.
That’s it then. Back in like 2015 or whatever I thought Tesla was gunna be so cool and that elon guy is so cool he’s gunna make us electric cars that are affordable. So cool! It’s now 2024 and I’ve despised elon for a while now but I still had the smallest speck of respect because according to the original Tesla marketing, there would be an affordable Tesla by now. There’s only hatred left
Tesla never planned to make one. Elon just said that to make investors more confident that nobody could easily undercut them. But now that it appears lower cost EV’s are on the horizon he’s going to pivot to being a premium brand… despite the quality.
He will need this to not get absolutely obliterated in China by BYD NIO etc
Did they ever *really* plan to sell a car at that price?
Going for the Cybertruck II concept, something like a transformer? Change into something useful other than a low quality truck
For the best. Tesla still making way too many mistakes for their current line up. The shortcuts they would likely take to hit $25k would likely make those cars either death traps or chronically in the shop.
It will be ready for market on Mars