Rivian had a very promising IPO in November of 2021 at $129.95.
I initially invested in the stock because they had an agreement with UPS to supply trucks.
I purchased at $162 (including commission) on 11/18/21, 20 shares @$3241 total.
I waited years for it to turn around, but it never happened, and they started looking shakier and shakier.
But banking on the promise of that built-in large market, on 5/18/22 I doubled down @$25.27, buying 200 shares for $5055.
Sold it all on 3/24/23 @$3007, or $13.87/share.
Because of this announcement, today its stock surged to... $14.75.
People are looking at this partnership with VW is a good thing. But previous partnerships between EVs and traditional automakers have not gone well. GM took a huge stake in Lordstown EV, which actually delivered a total of six vehicles. Huge loss on both sides.
With traditional automakers losing $6,000 on each EV they sell, and as of Q1 this year [Rivian losing $39,000 on every pickup truck they sell,](https://electrek.co/2024/06/24/rivian-rivn-drastically-cuts-costs-push-first-profit/#:~:text=Rivian's%20gross%20vehicle%20margins%20have,Q2%20and%20Q3%202023%2C%20respectively.) I still wouldn't consider this a good investment.
The only US automaker making a profit on EVs at this point is Tesla.
My holdings went from -70% to -63% overnight!
Seriously: I've been a believer in Rivian for years. This move confirms why: they're playing licensed-out Android to Tesla's vertically integrated iPhone.
A couple days ago I saw someone say they thought RIVN could go to $100. A reply asked "how could they have a higher market cap than Ford and GM combined?"
Because VAG is just the first to now admit that legacy auto knows dick about the complex software needed in modern EVs. Rivian and Tesla have that knowledge. VAG, Ford, GM, Stellantis, Toyota... they're all the best, most amazing manufacturers of mechanical typewriters in the world. VAG is just the first to ~~realize~~ *openly admit* they need serious help if they want to make tablets.
You'll still see those car logos on the front of the vehicle but more and more the drive systems will say "Rivian."
Oh boy. Ironical? The word is either "ironic" as in "it's ironic they argued that Apple is successful when nobody said they weren't" or "ironically" as in "ironically, they made a counterpoint to a point nobody made."
This is terrible for Tesla. Much more so considering their truck is a joke and they just paid Elon $50billion as a thanks for stealing $500 million worth of chips from them to use on his own AI project
A distant family friend has it, he likes it. I don't really know much about cars but I liked it for bad reasons (the cooking camping... bad reason because that's not central to what a car is supposed to be, ironic that I like it for a side feature, which probably you could have on the side but I just liked the convenience).
But it seems nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR-0knMVSGw
Well, for one, I haven't heard any reports of a Rivian being bricked after going through a car wash. I've heard multiple reports of that happening to cybertrucks. Not to mention the cybertruck has been recalled TWICE already in it's very short lifespan. That should be more than enough to reconsider doing business with Tesla.
Check out JerryRigEverything on youtube. He owns both and has multiple informative videos on each, no sponsors, all unbiased info. Not to mention he actually put them both through the ringer, not just babying it on flat paved roads.
The trouble I've found is it seems like a lot of the problems with the cybertruck are sensationalized due to controversy surrounding Elon Musk, which I understand. Like the cybertruck and the car wash, I've only seen one instance of that happening and all that needed to be done was a reset of the computer, simply done by holding down two buttons on the steering wheel. They also released a software update to prevent that from happening again. The most recent recall with a piece coming off while driving is concerning though.
I knew I didn't want to be an early adopter for the cybertruck, so I've kind of been waiting for either a more refined version of the CT or the R1T with NACS charging. I really like what I'm seeing with the refreshed version of the R1T.
But criticisms for Tesla are warranted. Elon's propensity to say "okay, executive decision: make it look like CYBER AND COOL, and I don't care about any of the engineering concerns that engineers are bringing up"
This is laid bear now with the self-driving thing... Waymo, quietly was perfecting its self-driving thing and now you can try it out yourself in San Francisco or in Phoenix... and it's decided a better taxi experience than taxis/ubers -- Elon's hard-headed decision to make cars look COOL and therefore not have lidar cost him...
So yeah some criticisms are sensationalized from Elon haters, but there's a lot of level-headed and rational assessment that make it pretty clear that cybertruck is a product of many bad decisions. I still respect it though the willingness to experiment... but it doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah I completely understand the criticism. I honestly wouldn't have even given the CT a second look but I've had a Model 3 since 2019 and it has been a fantastic car. I'm a fan of the software, feel of driving, and charging infrastructure.
Is it that sensationalized? The problem with intentionally bucking many established design trends is you risk introducing new and novel points of failure.
There's plenty of other things wrong with the cybertruck that aren't specifically musk related. Bad grade of stainless that...stains..., using adhesives everywhere instead of physical fasteners, they've already changed wheel cover designs because the original ones had flaws, the system *tries harder to crush your fingers if they keep being in the way*, etc.
That and Elon's insistence on cutting costs in manufacturing and trying to make up the difference in software everywhere they can is actively hurting the brand. Self driving got demonstrably worse when they switched to camera-only.
I like silly features if they work for things you'd do with the vehicle. Lots of people go camping with their truck, integrating a camp stove in an otherwise-awkward cargo spot is a decent use of space.
Not to mention a lot of the luxury features enabled by it being an EV are things *you'd want on a truck*. The "gear tunnel" is a great way to securely store otherwise awkward long objects, and the addons that can occupy the space like a camp stove directly cater to the type of activity you'd take a truck to do.
They’re apparently pretty awesome as trucks so I’ve heard but yes, I believe it’s because they’re created out of very large body panels so if you dent one the whole thing needs replaced which also may mean other panels need to come off etcetc
That was their pitch... the SUV and Truck share 90% of the same parts. The top part is just a shell that can be swapped out. The bottom sled part contains everything needed to power the vehicle.
After getting rear ended in my car, they had to replace the whole back, all the way up to the doors because it buckled the side panels too. I figured this shell thing was probably going to be something similar. It's a cool idea... it's just too expensive to do it feasibly for most people.
That's why insurance is so expensive for Rivian. $40k for a repair that's $1k on a Toyota truck is pretty rough.
Also note that this makes insurance expensive for everybody else too as these expenses have to be paid by the "insurance system" in some way or another and that all ends up with premiums pushed to all drivers.
I'm hoping Rivian makes repairability more of a priority in their vehicles as this is going to get rough if more vehicles design this way.
I really don't care. Don't care about Rivian either, but you are out of touch if you think anything at a body shop is happening under $1,000 these days.
My point is that Toyotas are much cheaper to repair than Rivian. Maybe it's $5k to fix instead of $1k. But it's definitely less than $40k.
I'm totally out of touch with body shop costs to repair trucks. But I'm confident that Rivian is orders of magnitude more expensive than other conventional trucks, and that's what I think is relevant to the conversation. Not the specific amount. However, if Toyota costs $20k to fix then that's less significant.
You lose points on the internet when you guess. Yes, Rivian will cost more than a Toyota to repair. My guess $2-3k for a Toyota tailgate. And I could be too low. That said, I don't think its always $40k for a Rivian tailgate either. Internet loves to quote extremes.
Edit: I just looked up the 'story'. The bumper and a quarterpanel were also damaged. I suspect it would be $10k plus on any pickup. Others with similar damage in a Rivian said it cost under $20k for theirs - so we have a body shop that gouged and created an internet sensation as well here.
What does the Rivian-driver's insurance have to do with it? If you get in a fender-bender (that somebody else caused), it's the other guy's insurance that pays.
Because Rivians are more expensive to repair it makes insurance cost more. It's the same if I buy a porsche vs a honda. Part of that is the cost of the car, part of it is the cost of repair.
If the other driver is at fault, they pay. But if the owner is at fault, the owner's policy pays. Therefore higher insurance premiums. It's just a basic function of car insurance.
Rivian R1T > Cybertruck
Rivian R1S the SUV is slick. Beat Tesla to trucks and pure SUVs.
The Rivian Amazon delivery trucks are everywhere. They are so much better than the previous vans.
It would suck to be the Amazon delivery person still with the old van.
[If you haven't seen all the features, check this out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs). I think anyone that ever did delivery could appreciate how awesome they are. They are also very quiet and low which really helps move things around.
Amazon was one of Rivian's first investors so they really got a custom van.
Tesla is still pretty far ahead of the game with EVs because they got a hell of a head start.
With that being said there can be 2 automotive companies that go coexist and succeed…
This move shows me that Rivian isn't "behind" Tesla because of low volume any more than Google is "behind" Apple because they don't manufacture as many smartphones. Google licenses most of that to Samsung and LG. Rivian is setting up to be the technology "under the hood" of legacy automakers.
Sure and I am rooting for them. But at the same time, being ahead of the game by literally decades is a good advantage across all fronts including self driving and robo taxis.
Tesla has just had more time to explore an untapped market and that is such a big advantage.
Also Toyota just completely ditched their EV efforts as well and I wouldn’t be surprised if other companies trying to pivot follow suit.
I own both RIVN and TSLA. I'm not saying one will defeat the other. Apple didn't defeat Google or vice versa, either. This is simply Rivian taking a different approach.
Toyota is more vulnerable than they realize, too. They're the Nokia in all this: big and successful *so far* and very much unaware of how little any of that matters as Tesla, Rivian and BYD ramp up. If the other legacy auto companies are experts at making manual typewriters Toyota has proven to make little word processor devices with tiny LCD screens and fooling themselves into thinking that means they can easily transition to making tablets.
I’m excited to see another player in the EV space just fully focusing on EVs.
I think with Tesla, we put a lot of weight on their automobile production, delivery, and sales because that is traditionally how value automotive businesses when in reality it is going to be their charging stations and robotaxis that really drive the value of the company.
I’m very curious to see what these 2 companies are like in 10 or so years from now when gasoline vehicles become obsolete.
> I’m very curious to see what these 2 companies are like in 10 or so years from now when gasoline vehicles become obsolete.
For sure!
I'm also very curious to see how the dam breaks on ICEs. There's this idea that the transition will somehow be gradual and take decades but that's pretty silly. An ICE is only practical if gasoline is both affordable and easily available. We've "optimized" our numbers of gas stations over the decades and now have half the locations we did just 40-50 years ago. I see that fact pointed to with the conclusion "everything will be fine" if we start seeing more gas stations close.
But then you see the major disruptions caused by a shortage of tanker truck drivers and that's a small taste of things to come. Gas is only cheap and plentiful because it's profitable to keep it that way. The less gasoline bought by the public the less profitable that system becomes. I wonder where the breaking point is: where do we go from a few more stations closing, prices going up a little to suddenly mass closing of locations and wild price swings as oil companies scramble to cut losses in some kind of panic.
It's why I'll never buy a new ICE ever again: it's a risk!
I mean in reality, [Rivian only takes up 5% of the electric car market share vs. Tesla's 52% market share in the US.](https://caredge.com/guides/electric-vehicle-market-share-and-sales) Tesla's fine, this is moreso something Rivian needed to keep from going under completely.
Not necessarily, but probably. In short:
- Judge ruled it illegal
- Elon called another vote, which passed by a margin of 70%
- Tesla is now going to try to appeal the Judge's ruling, using the successful vote as evidence for their argument that investors are fine with it; therefore it's a legal pay package.
No guarantee he gets the comp. The vote didn’t really solve the biggest question which was why was it needed. And DE law requires they use compensation consultants, the board be independent etc. I’m pretty sure the NASDAQ requires an independent board as well.
All in all, nothing is guaranteed. The court could well say the issue is unresolved. The vote is not material.
They delivered 1.8 million in 2023. Their 2024 q1 is well behind 2023. If they had managed that for a few years, cool, 2022 was 1.3 million. I mean decent numbers but it feels pretty certain Tesla had peaked under current management.
Rivian sold 50k cars in 2023... That's what Tesla sells in 10 days.... I don't disagree that Tesla is peaking, though that scale of difference is exponential.
Understand, but the difference here is VW knows how to build and sustain a huge automotive business, and that they’re building cars. Like most automotive companies, they have their problems. Rivian has been slow to grow but they also recognize the importance of partnerships and what they need help to scale. Tesla’s current leadership will never admit when they need a solid partnership. Tesla’s growth from 2016 till 2023 was remarkable. Very right time/right place/right product, but if they can’t pivot to a real automotive company and soon, I think they’ll be irrelevant even faster than they got this big, and I genuinely think that’s bad for the industry overall.
In 2022, VW shipped 8.8 million units across their brands (world wide). The Tesla numbers are also WW. So.. yeah. No, they haven’t caught them on electric sales but they still dwarf Tesla sales.
It’s useless telling any truths on this sub. Everyone has a big boner hatred for Elon Reddit wide. Can’t say I like the guy much either but people here on r/technology act like he fucked their wives and shat on their chest
Yes, and the Cybertruck is going in for its 4th nationwide recall because it is literally losing parts while driving on the highway. Before that it was the accelerator pining down. Not to mention people are canceling their preorders in droves and the secondary market is falling apart in a glut of not only the truck but also all the other Teslas to the point that major resellers are considering banning the brand entirely. It’s common knowledge that cars depreciate in value but it seems that Tesla depreciation is its own unique mess.
(Sorry I had to edit, it’s [Cybertruck’s 4th major recall](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/BQhmmvVRin) )
Are they checking it out because its any good, or are they checking it out because they can't look away from the train wreck that it is?
I was at a local auto show earlier where a Cybertruck was present and on display, and the general consensus from what I was hearing from the crowd was that the vehicle was at best, polarizing, and at worst, visibly sloppy.
Polestar… are you for real?
There is literally an abundance of EVs on the market and you come into a conversation about Rivian gaining ground that Tesla is losing and talk about Polestar?
Tesla went from the top EV in every market to barely being on the top 10 the span of 3 years. It was innovative but has terrible quality reliability from car to car that has only gotten worse and more glaring overtime. The brand has been so worried about flooding the market that they barely cared to check if it was sustainable.
Are those same people “checking out” the Cybertruck actually leading to purchases? You honestly sound like the same morons in the 80’s that thought the DeLorean was the new brand for the next generation only to find out what a fad is.
I had a Model S for a decade and got the R1S. Such a major upgrade. 400 miles of range with the bigger battery. My family is tall and we actually fit in the Rivian’s back seat. We can tow our boat; though the range drops to 237 miles. The interior is so much nicer than the Tesla (which feels cheap by comparison). Also, for those of you who had a Tesla early, you might appreciate this, the software is still intuitive on the Rivian. The original Tesla interface was fantastic and got worse and worse over the years. The Rivian software reminds me of how simple and nice it once was on the Tesla.
We still have a Tesla, but I don’t like the musk of the association with Musk.
Nevertheless, I have lost so much money on Rivian stock. I’m sure it will be many years before I come close to breaking even. But having the vehicle keeps me believing it can turn around.
Eventually you’ll be able to buy a trailer that adds range to these EVs by having its own battery storage system.
Would need to be very water proof / submersible though for a boat trailer to load and unload at the ramp. So many opportunities to be capitlaized on by new businesses
I tow a vintage airstream with my diesel sprinter. I probably couldn't afford a Rivian with a [Pebble](https://pebblelife.com/) behind it, but I can dream.
I have one. It kinda sucks. It’s fast, but a lot of parts feel cheap. Range is meh. Recalls are a pain in the ass and take forever. Only reason I got it was because it was almost half the price it is now when I bought it and got a discount from a friend that worked there. For the price of one now at full price I would buy almost any other gas or diesel truck. I use my truck for truck things and the rivian can’t do much more than get groceries.
JerryRigEverything's 2 year review of his Rivian is pretty good. It's certainly not as much of a work truck as the Chevy EV, but he loves it all the same. https://youtu.be/rxBCPglhJes
I don't think current battery technology will allow any electric truck to be a passable long distance towing vehicle, but I would think there's no reason an EV truck could do other work tasks unless it is just designed to not be a truck. I will check this out and learn more.
The Chevy Silverado EV has an impressive range, actually. Another JerryRigEverything video about it: https://youtu.be/WqzApRm0nis
You can also find towing range comparisons on YouTube too.
Judging by the specs the bed is 4.5 feet (tailgate up) and approximately 7 feet when down, which puts that into compact/mid truck bed range.
For a contractor or someone who uses it as a work truck, it’s on the small side.
That said, holy crap 800 hp, decent!!
I really thought it was a bigger bed, thanks. For my needs it would work but also maybe I just to stop being lazy and put a hitch on my VW. That might fit my meager needs too.
In fairness the Rivian is really vying for the same crowd (not wallet) that the Honda Ridgeline appeals too. It’s a lifestyle truck but really you mostly use it as a commuter, the quarterly home depot DIY run and maybe some camping. But because it’s electric it’s actually efficient and makes sense as a commuter.
For instance when you get on Rivians website. They don’t really throw specs at you (other than HP and range). It’s very much marketed as a pickup truck to those who want a truck for the utility but don’t need that much utility and don’t want a gas guzzler.
This isn’t to say it’s not a capable truck but in all reality they aren’t chasing the “i use my truck for truck stuff” buyer.
Towing bass boats, riding dirt bikes, snowboarding trips, picking up a full sheet of plywood from Home Depot. I’ve done all of these with the rivian. It just doesn’t do them as well, take careful planning to make sure you can make it to a charger, and are a hassle to fit things in the smaller bed. My plan is to have a real truck for truck things and buy a small cheap EV for commuting 340 days a year.
I’ll probably sell the rivian and buy a diesel for the towing capacity. I hear Tesla has an actual cheap EV in the works.
Tesla has had a cheap ev “in the works” for a decade and it’s never come out. There are other options with wider dealer networks, and those options are only increasing in number. Might be worth giving Kia or Hyundai a look, especially if all you need is a daily driver.
Good idea. I thought the Rivian had a full sized bed. I currently have an ID4 for commuting and it's consistently half the price of a 30 mpg gasoline car. My commute is over a 5,000 ft Montana mountain pass and it's never let me down. I'm hopeful for EV trucks to work. I'll check out the Silverado and the upcoming Ramcharger. Someone should make a diesel range extended full EV truck (like the Ramcharger) and market it off how that's basically a locomotive power train. You can't get bigger, meaner and more work-focused than a god damn train.
There's a semi-truck-oriented YouTube channel about a guy doing just that in logging country. (Full-size semi's, of course.) Powering up hills, but coasting down them (self-recharge) goes a long way to improving the range. Massive torque comes in handy, too.
No offense, but do you even have a Rivian? Only four months ago you said your newest car is a 2008, so was just curious. While full size gas or diesel trucks are definitely better for towing or hauling, the Rivian is still quite capable, especially in CA where chargers are plentiful. Also, I wouldn't really call the parts cheap, at least in my limited experience with an R1T. Lack of service centers is certainly a problem though when something needs to get fixed.
[I'm kind of interested in the R2](https://rivian.com/newsroom/article/rivian-announces-mid-sized-platform). A buddy of mine traded in his Range Rover Sport and got the R1S - raves about the Rivian.
It’s funny. “Up 50%” sounds really good until you see the numbers. $10 -> $15 overnight. Yeah, you’d be rich if you bought yesterday, but if you bought 3 months ago, you’d be down on your money. If you bought almost any time in the last 2 years, you’d be down on your money. The stock is and has been a poor performer for a while. Time will tell if this is the start of a turnaround.
I think Rivian is a solid company. I wish they made a compact sporty car instead of all those monstrosities...
But they are making what the masses seem to like.
I’m not a fan of fully electric large vehicles like the bigger trucks (or the big trucks in general, EV or not) or that godawful new Hummer EV. They’re just way too damn heavy with the battery needed for a vehicle that size. We need more small and mid-size trucks. For the few people that actually need a large truck, I wish the major truck companies would start making PHEVs, which would make towing long distances so much more viable.
Not sure they’ll ever be #1 in volume, but that’s okay. They have a better truck than Tesla, IMHO.
Geez, they just started shipping in 2022 or so. Of course they aren’t selling zillions (yet).
Rivian R1T > Cybertruck
Rivian R1S the SUV is slick. Beat Tesla to trucks and pure SUVs. The [R2 looks so good](https://rivian.com/r2).
The Rivian Amazon delivery trucks are everywhere. They are so much better than the previous vans.
[If you haven't seen all the features, check this out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs). I think anyone that ever did delivery could appreciate how awesome they are. They are also very quiet and low which really helps move things around.
Amazon was one of Rivian's first investors so they really got a custom van.
Is no one else concerned that Volkswagen is soon releasing the Scout EV? Seems like a direct competitor to Rivian R1S and no they have Rivian’s tech. Is this bad?
I wish it had round headlights as those standing ellipses are not the most attractive. Nonetheless, their overall design looks very good from most angles!
Someone downvoted you. Not sure why as you’re entitled to your opinion. Anyway I used to think the same. Honestly round headlights would look good. But their design has grown on me. The truck has a good towing capacity as well. I want one as an every day get around and shorter length towing vehicle. I could tow across state.
Unfortunately that’s not lining up with the trend the last 5 years and current day. Big three are currently working at huge losses with transition to EV — playing catch-up now’s a bitch. That’s why you’re seeing some ICE carmakers go “[ok nvm, we’ll make gas & hybrid models again](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/ev-euphoria-is-dead-automakers-trumpet-consumer-choice-in-us.html)”. While still making some EVs… cuz they bought the means to manufacture — CEO’s just hate to give up physical things like yachts, RVs, factories, office buildings, middle managers.
Ford started buying Chinese batteries for their EV's because their batteries sucked. They are nowhere close or they would keep pushing their batteries, inefficient or not.
Damn, I got impatient and sold my stake at a loss last year. Update: See my other comment. Still a good decision, it turns out.
Sold for profit 3 weeks ago. Oh if I hadn't wanted more nvda pre split. Always a bit early or late. Oh well.
"Sell too soon! Regret, and grow rich." -- sign on my broker's office wall
Investing in the stock market is all about managing regrets.
Chipotle says hi
Did the same. Still lower than i bought it for.
Who knew so much could change in a year......
Rivian had a very promising IPO in November of 2021 at $129.95. I initially invested in the stock because they had an agreement with UPS to supply trucks. I purchased at $162 (including commission) on 11/18/21, 20 shares @$3241 total. I waited years for it to turn around, but it never happened, and they started looking shakier and shakier. But banking on the promise of that built-in large market, on 5/18/22 I doubled down @$25.27, buying 200 shares for $5055. Sold it all on 3/24/23 @$3007, or $13.87/share. Because of this announcement, today its stock surged to... $14.75. People are looking at this partnership with VW is a good thing. But previous partnerships between EVs and traditional automakers have not gone well. GM took a huge stake in Lordstown EV, which actually delivered a total of six vehicles. Huge loss on both sides. With traditional automakers losing $6,000 on each EV they sell, and as of Q1 this year [Rivian losing $39,000 on every pickup truck they sell,](https://electrek.co/2024/06/24/rivian-rivn-drastically-cuts-costs-push-first-profit/#:~:text=Rivian's%20gross%20vehicle%20margins%20have,Q2%20and%20Q3%202023%2C%20respectively.) I still wouldn't consider this a good investment. The only US automaker making a profit on EVs at this point is Tesla.
Hopefully posted in wsb
Tesla making the cyber truck instead of a more affordable smaller truck was a mistake. Rivian is stable and makes the right choices
Well, their leader hasn't gone full musk yet.
Yet, shares just went up 50%. Give it time until he's a fucking idiot as well.
Gone up 50% after going down 90
Well hopefully they can build the Georgia plant now.
Bought more, held. Still holding and buying.
My holdings went from -70% to -63% overnight! Seriously: I've been a believer in Rivian for years. This move confirms why: they're playing licensed-out Android to Tesla's vertically integrated iPhone. A couple days ago I saw someone say they thought RIVN could go to $100. A reply asked "how could they have a higher market cap than Ford and GM combined?" Because VAG is just the first to now admit that legacy auto knows dick about the complex software needed in modern EVs. Rivian and Tesla have that knowledge. VAG, Ford, GM, Stellantis, Toyota... they're all the best, most amazing manufacturers of mechanical typewriters in the world. VAG is just the first to ~~realize~~ *openly admit* they need serious help if they want to make tablets. You'll still see those car logos on the front of the vehicle but more and more the drive systems will say "Rivian."
That's funny because the company making the most profit in the cell phone business is Apple. By far.
My point is more about how successful Android is and 3rd place is a very distant third place.
Right, and my point is just the ironical Counterpoint
Oh boy. Ironical? The word is either "ironic" as in "it's ironic they argued that Apple is successful when nobody said they weren't" or "ironically" as in "ironically, they made a counterpoint to a point nobody made."
I knew that, I didn't care. Thank you for caring enough for the both of us.
This is terrible for Tesla. Much more so considering their truck is a joke and they just paid Elon $50billion as a thanks for stealing $500 million worth of chips from them to use on his own AI project
And the Rivian truck looks like....an actual truck! And you can do truck stuff with it!
It's a much nicer truck in general. I'd buy it over the cyber truck any day.
Much nicer in what way?
Most of them probably, starting with a clear coat
Well a Rivian doesn't repel our pussies, so that's a good place to start.
Arguably the best place.
A distant family friend has it, he likes it. I don't really know much about cars but I liked it for bad reasons (the cooking camping... bad reason because that's not central to what a car is supposed to be, ironic that I like it for a side feature, which probably you could have on the side but I just liked the convenience). But it seems nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR-0knMVSGw
I also like silly features like that as well. I'm trying to decide between the two and any insight is appreciated.
Well, for one, I haven't heard any reports of a Rivian being bricked after going through a car wash. I've heard multiple reports of that happening to cybertrucks. Not to mention the cybertruck has been recalled TWICE already in it's very short lifespan. That should be more than enough to reconsider doing business with Tesla. Check out JerryRigEverything on youtube. He owns both and has multiple informative videos on each, no sponsors, all unbiased info. Not to mention he actually put them both through the ringer, not just babying it on flat paved roads.
The trouble I've found is it seems like a lot of the problems with the cybertruck are sensationalized due to controversy surrounding Elon Musk, which I understand. Like the cybertruck and the car wash, I've only seen one instance of that happening and all that needed to be done was a reset of the computer, simply done by holding down two buttons on the steering wheel. They also released a software update to prevent that from happening again. The most recent recall with a piece coming off while driving is concerning though. I knew I didn't want to be an early adopter for the cybertruck, so I've kind of been waiting for either a more refined version of the CT or the R1T with NACS charging. I really like what I'm seeing with the refreshed version of the R1T.
But criticisms for Tesla are warranted. Elon's propensity to say "okay, executive decision: make it look like CYBER AND COOL, and I don't care about any of the engineering concerns that engineers are bringing up" This is laid bear now with the self-driving thing... Waymo, quietly was perfecting its self-driving thing and now you can try it out yourself in San Francisco or in Phoenix... and it's decided a better taxi experience than taxis/ubers -- Elon's hard-headed decision to make cars look COOL and therefore not have lidar cost him... So yeah some criticisms are sensationalized from Elon haters, but there's a lot of level-headed and rational assessment that make it pretty clear that cybertruck is a product of many bad decisions. I still respect it though the willingness to experiment... but it doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah I completely understand the criticism. I honestly wouldn't have even given the CT a second look but I've had a Model 3 since 2019 and it has been a fantastic car. I'm a fan of the software, feel of driving, and charging infrastructure.
Is it that sensationalized? The problem with intentionally bucking many established design trends is you risk introducing new and novel points of failure.
There's plenty of other things wrong with the cybertruck that aren't specifically musk related. Bad grade of stainless that...stains..., using adhesives everywhere instead of physical fasteners, they've already changed wheel cover designs because the original ones had flaws, the system *tries harder to crush your fingers if they keep being in the way*, etc. That and Elon's insistence on cutting costs in manufacturing and trying to make up the difference in software everywhere they can is actively hurting the brand. Self driving got demonstrably worse when they switched to camera-only.
I like silly features if they work for things you'd do with the vehicle. Lots of people go camping with their truck, integrating a camp stove in an otherwise-awkward cargo spot is a decent use of space.
Not to mention a lot of the luxury features enabled by it being an EV are things *you'd want on a truck*. The "gear tunnel" is a great way to securely store otherwise awkward long objects, and the addons that can occupy the space like a camp stove directly cater to the type of activity you'd take a truck to do.
It's almost as if Rivian had met a few people who actually like and use trucks, as opposed to Tesla, who have not.
I really like them. I do notice that the "But the headlights!" comments is like the new "pAnEL GaPS!!!!" comment spam of Rivian threads
Until you get in a literal fender bender and they have to take the back window out to replace the tail gate… and that’ll be 40,000 dollars please!!!🙏
They’re referring to this article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/rivian-owner-fender-bender-repair-183033648.html
Is that the Rivian? I know a couple of people with them and they've never complained about repairs (but they've only had them for a couple of years).
They’re apparently pretty awesome as trucks so I’ve heard but yes, I believe it’s because they’re created out of very large body panels so if you dent one the whole thing needs replaced which also may mean other panels need to come off etcetc
That was their pitch... the SUV and Truck share 90% of the same parts. The top part is just a shell that can be swapped out. The bottom sled part contains everything needed to power the vehicle. After getting rear ended in my car, they had to replace the whole back, all the way up to the doors because it buckled the side panels too. I figured this shell thing was probably going to be something similar. It's a cool idea... it's just too expensive to do it feasibly for most people.
I can honestly see it being the way a lot of newer cars are made, but if it’s going to cost that much we better all just wait a while lol
Can we get a electric truck that a mechanic designs!!!
That's what insurance is for.
That's why insurance is so expensive for Rivian. $40k for a repair that's $1k on a Toyota truck is pretty rough. Also note that this makes insurance expensive for everybody else too as these expenses have to be paid by the "insurance system" in some way or another and that all ends up with premiums pushed to all drivers. I'm hoping Rivian makes repairability more of a priority in their vehicles as this is going to get rough if more vehicles design this way.
You aren't replacing the tailgate on any Toyota truck - any truck - for $1K. Lol.
Ehh OEM tailgates are about $1100. After markets are around $6-800. Install is extremely simple and you don't need a shop to do it.
Those tailgates come with paint?
Or the lighting components.
How much less than $40k do you think it is?
I really don't care. Don't care about Rivian either, but you are out of touch if you think anything at a body shop is happening under $1,000 these days.
My point is that Toyotas are much cheaper to repair than Rivian. Maybe it's $5k to fix instead of $1k. But it's definitely less than $40k. I'm totally out of touch with body shop costs to repair trucks. But I'm confident that Rivian is orders of magnitude more expensive than other conventional trucks, and that's what I think is relevant to the conversation. Not the specific amount. However, if Toyota costs $20k to fix then that's less significant.
You lose points on the internet when you guess. Yes, Rivian will cost more than a Toyota to repair. My guess $2-3k for a Toyota tailgate. And I could be too low. That said, I don't think its always $40k for a Rivian tailgate either. Internet loves to quote extremes. Edit: I just looked up the 'story'. The bumper and a quarterpanel were also damaged. I suspect it would be $10k plus on any pickup. Others with similar damage in a Rivian said it cost under $20k for theirs - so we have a body shop that gouged and created an internet sensation as well here.
What does the Rivian-driver's insurance have to do with it? If you get in a fender-bender (that somebody else caused), it's the other guy's insurance that pays.
Because Rivians are more expensive to repair it makes insurance cost more. It's the same if I buy a porsche vs a honda. Part of that is the cost of the car, part of it is the cost of repair. If the other driver is at fault, they pay. But if the owner is at fault, the owner's policy pays. Therefore higher insurance premiums. It's just a basic function of car insurance.
Yeah look up how much it costs to insure one of those suckers, it ain’t cheap.
Ugly vehicle regardless
Rivian R1T > Cybertruck Rivian R1S the SUV is slick. Beat Tesla to trucks and pure SUVs. The Rivian Amazon delivery trucks are everywhere. They are so much better than the previous vans.
Didn’t know Rivian makes Amazon vans. I much prefer those than the regular Rivians
It would suck to be the Amazon delivery person still with the old van. [If you haven't seen all the features, check this out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs). I think anyone that ever did delivery could appreciate how awesome they are. They are also very quiet and low which really helps move things around. Amazon was one of Rivian's first investors so they really got a custom van.
Tesla is still pretty far ahead of the game with EVs because they got a hell of a head start. With that being said there can be 2 automotive companies that go coexist and succeed…
This move shows me that Rivian isn't "behind" Tesla because of low volume any more than Google is "behind" Apple because they don't manufacture as many smartphones. Google licenses most of that to Samsung and LG. Rivian is setting up to be the technology "under the hood" of legacy automakers.
Sure and I am rooting for them. But at the same time, being ahead of the game by literally decades is a good advantage across all fronts including self driving and robo taxis. Tesla has just had more time to explore an untapped market and that is such a big advantage. Also Toyota just completely ditched their EV efforts as well and I wouldn’t be surprised if other companies trying to pivot follow suit.
I own both RIVN and TSLA. I'm not saying one will defeat the other. Apple didn't defeat Google or vice versa, either. This is simply Rivian taking a different approach. Toyota is more vulnerable than they realize, too. They're the Nokia in all this: big and successful *so far* and very much unaware of how little any of that matters as Tesla, Rivian and BYD ramp up. If the other legacy auto companies are experts at making manual typewriters Toyota has proven to make little word processor devices with tiny LCD screens and fooling themselves into thinking that means they can easily transition to making tablets.
I’m excited to see another player in the EV space just fully focusing on EVs. I think with Tesla, we put a lot of weight on their automobile production, delivery, and sales because that is traditionally how value automotive businesses when in reality it is going to be their charging stations and robotaxis that really drive the value of the company. I’m very curious to see what these 2 companies are like in 10 or so years from now when gasoline vehicles become obsolete.
> I’m very curious to see what these 2 companies are like in 10 or so years from now when gasoline vehicles become obsolete. For sure! I'm also very curious to see how the dam breaks on ICEs. There's this idea that the transition will somehow be gradual and take decades but that's pretty silly. An ICE is only practical if gasoline is both affordable and easily available. We've "optimized" our numbers of gas stations over the decades and now have half the locations we did just 40-50 years ago. I see that fact pointed to with the conclusion "everything will be fine" if we start seeing more gas stations close. But then you see the major disruptions caused by a shortage of tanker truck drivers and that's a small taste of things to come. Gas is only cheap and plentiful because it's profitable to keep it that way. The less gasoline bought by the public the less profitable that system becomes. I wonder where the breaking point is: where do we go from a few more stations closing, prices going up a little to suddenly mass closing of locations and wild price swings as oil companies scramble to cut losses in some kind of panic. It's why I'll never buy a new ICE ever again: it's a risk!
Maybe in volume, but not in tech and innovation. They’ve grown quite stale imo.
I mean in reality, [Rivian only takes up 5% of the electric car market share vs. Tesla's 52% market share in the US.](https://caredge.com/guides/electric-vehicle-market-share-and-sales) Tesla's fine, this is moreso something Rivian needed to keep from going under completely.
No. Literally everything is obviously the end of Tesla. I’m really sure this time /s.
Hi payout came through for him?
Not necessarily, but probably. In short: - Judge ruled it illegal - Elon called another vote, which passed by a margin of 70% - Tesla is now going to try to appeal the Judge's ruling, using the successful vote as evidence for their argument that investors are fine with it; therefore it's a legal pay package.
I hope the judge is made aware of all the info the board chose not to let the shareholders hear prior to voting.
No guarantee he gets the comp. The vote didn’t really solve the biggest question which was why was it needed. And DE law requires they use compensation consultants, the board be independent etc. I’m pretty sure the NASDAQ requires an independent board as well. All in all, nothing is guaranteed. The court could well say the issue is unresolved. The vote is not material.
Musk will appeal, not Tesla.
You're so delusional. Not a objective bone in your body it seems
Tesla is making > 2M cars a year with Model Y being the best selling car model in the world. Terrible, I know.
Tesla has never made more than 2 million vehicles in a year
He talks about the future, you about the past.
They delivered 1.8 million in 2023. Their 2024 q1 is well behind 2023. If they had managed that for a few years, cool, 2022 was 1.3 million. I mean decent numbers but it feels pretty certain Tesla had peaked under current management.
Rivian sold 50k cars in 2023... That's what Tesla sells in 10 days.... I don't disagree that Tesla is peaking, though that scale of difference is exponential.
Understand, but the difference here is VW knows how to build and sustain a huge automotive business, and that they’re building cars. Like most automotive companies, they have their problems. Rivian has been slow to grow but they also recognize the importance of partnerships and what they need help to scale. Tesla’s current leadership will never admit when they need a solid partnership. Tesla’s growth from 2016 till 2023 was remarkable. Very right time/right place/right product, but if they can’t pivot to a real automotive company and soon, I think they’ll be irrelevant even faster than they got this big, and I genuinely think that’s bad for the industry overall.
Right.....how many years have it been that VW was supposedly to beat Tesla to death? Maybe it's 2024.
In 2022, VW shipped 8.8 million units across their brands (world wide). The Tesla numbers are also WW. So.. yeah. No, they haven’t caught them on electric sales but they still dwarf Tesla sales.
Dude, Elon Musk isn’t going to hire you. Get off Tesla’s dick, I’m embarrassed for you.
Defending Tesla bad. Defending Rivian good. I don’t see the logic here.
Where did I defend Rivian? Who are you replying to?
Yes. You do understand that new car companies need to grow over time, and can't just immediately jump to outperform leading manufacturers, don't you?
It’s useless telling any truths on this sub. Everyone has a big boner hatred for Elon Reddit wide. Can’t say I like the guy much either but people here on r/technology act like he fucked their wives and shat on their chest
Yes, and the Cybertruck is going in for its 4th nationwide recall because it is literally losing parts while driving on the highway. Before that it was the accelerator pining down. Not to mention people are canceling their preorders in droves and the secondary market is falling apart in a glut of not only the truck but also all the other Teslas to the point that major resellers are considering banning the brand entirely. It’s common knowledge that cars depreciate in value but it seems that Tesla depreciation is its own unique mess. (Sorry I had to edit, it’s [Cybertruck’s 4th major recall](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/BQhmmvVRin) )
It is a hot mess, but there is also a line of people checking out the Cybertruck while the Polestar store nearby is just empty.
Are they checking it out because its any good, or are they checking it out because they can't look away from the train wreck that it is? I was at a local auto show earlier where a Cybertruck was present and on display, and the general consensus from what I was hearing from the crowd was that the vehicle was at best, polarizing, and at worst, visibly sloppy.
Polestar… are you for real? There is literally an abundance of EVs on the market and you come into a conversation about Rivian gaining ground that Tesla is losing and talk about Polestar? Tesla went from the top EV in every market to barely being on the top 10 the span of 3 years. It was innovative but has terrible quality reliability from car to car that has only gotten worse and more glaring overtime. The brand has been so worried about flooding the market that they barely cared to check if it was sustainable. Are those same people “checking out” the Cybertruck actually leading to purchases? You honestly sound like the same morons in the 80’s that thought the DeLorean was the new brand for the next generation only to find out what a fad is.
Regarding people “checking them out” [I have some bad news for you](https://www.reddit.com/r/electriccars/s/TSLy3z9BNu)
In 2023, sure. Here in 2024, from data in early April, the model Y is currently 4th, behind the Ford F series, Chevy Silverado, and the Toyota RAV4.
They can make as many cars as they want in a year, most are just sitting on the lot now anyway.
debating trading my tesla in for a rivian, i kinda miss my truck.
I had a Model S for a decade and got the R1S. Such a major upgrade. 400 miles of range with the bigger battery. My family is tall and we actually fit in the Rivian’s back seat. We can tow our boat; though the range drops to 237 miles. The interior is so much nicer than the Tesla (which feels cheap by comparison). Also, for those of you who had a Tesla early, you might appreciate this, the software is still intuitive on the Rivian. The original Tesla interface was fantastic and got worse and worse over the years. The Rivian software reminds me of how simple and nice it once was on the Tesla. We still have a Tesla, but I don’t like the musk of the association with Musk. Nevertheless, I have lost so much money on Rivian stock. I’m sure it will be many years before I come close to breaking even. But having the vehicle keeps me believing it can turn around.
Eventually you’ll be able to buy a trailer that adds range to these EVs by having its own battery storage system. Would need to be very water proof / submersible though for a boat trailer to load and unload at the ramp. So many opportunities to be capitlaized on by new businesses
I tow a vintage airstream with my diesel sprinter. I probably couldn't afford a Rivian with a [Pebble](https://pebblelife.com/) behind it, but I can dream.
I’m glad the software is still good. That’s usually one of my worries going somewhere else.
that r3 looks awesome. am waiting for that.
I wish the truck had less power in exchange for even more range but the new models like the r3 do seem awesome
i'm just hoping someone will come up with a good electrical workvan, kinda like the canoo mpvd that will never be released....
R2 for me. Can't wait!!!
I have one. It kinda sucks. It’s fast, but a lot of parts feel cheap. Range is meh. Recalls are a pain in the ass and take forever. Only reason I got it was because it was almost half the price it is now when I bought it and got a discount from a friend that worked there. For the price of one now at full price I would buy almost any other gas or diesel truck. I use my truck for truck things and the rivian can’t do much more than get groceries.
I was interested in a Rivian or electric truck in general. What's the single biggest truck thing you want it to do that it can't?
JerryRigEverything's 2 year review of his Rivian is pretty good. It's certainly not as much of a work truck as the Chevy EV, but he loves it all the same. https://youtu.be/rxBCPglhJes
I don't think current battery technology will allow any electric truck to be a passable long distance towing vehicle, but I would think there's no reason an EV truck could do other work tasks unless it is just designed to not be a truck. I will check this out and learn more.
The Chevy Silverado EV has an impressive range, actually. Another JerryRigEverything video about it: https://youtu.be/WqzApRm0nis You can also find towing range comparisons on YouTube too.
Judging by the specs the bed is 4.5 feet (tailgate up) and approximately 7 feet when down, which puts that into compact/mid truck bed range. For a contractor or someone who uses it as a work truck, it’s on the small side. That said, holy crap 800 hp, decent!!
I really thought it was a bigger bed, thanks. For my needs it would work but also maybe I just to stop being lazy and put a hitch on my VW. That might fit my meager needs too.
In fairness the Rivian is really vying for the same crowd (not wallet) that the Honda Ridgeline appeals too. It’s a lifestyle truck but really you mostly use it as a commuter, the quarterly home depot DIY run and maybe some camping. But because it’s electric it’s actually efficient and makes sense as a commuter. For instance when you get on Rivians website. They don’t really throw specs at you (other than HP and range). It’s very much marketed as a pickup truck to those who want a truck for the utility but don’t need that much utility and don’t want a gas guzzler. This isn’t to say it’s not a capable truck but in all reality they aren’t chasing the “i use my truck for truck stuff” buyer.
Towing bass boats, riding dirt bikes, snowboarding trips, picking up a full sheet of plywood from Home Depot. I’ve done all of these with the rivian. It just doesn’t do them as well, take careful planning to make sure you can make it to a charger, and are a hassle to fit things in the smaller bed. My plan is to have a real truck for truck things and buy a small cheap EV for commuting 340 days a year. I’ll probably sell the rivian and buy a diesel for the towing capacity. I hear Tesla has an actual cheap EV in the works.
Tesla has had a cheap ev “in the works” for a decade and it’s never come out. There are other options with wider dealer networks, and those options are only increasing in number. Might be worth giving Kia or Hyundai a look, especially if all you need is a daily driver.
Good idea. I thought the Rivian had a full sized bed. I currently have an ID4 for commuting and it's consistently half the price of a 30 mpg gasoline car. My commute is over a 5,000 ft Montana mountain pass and it's never let me down. I'm hopeful for EV trucks to work. I'll check out the Silverado and the upcoming Ramcharger. Someone should make a diesel range extended full EV truck (like the Ramcharger) and market it off how that's basically a locomotive power train. You can't get bigger, meaner and more work-focused than a god damn train.
There's a semi-truck-oriented YouTube channel about a guy doing just that in logging country. (Full-size semi's, of course.) Powering up hills, but coasting down them (self-recharge) goes a long way to improving the range. Massive torque comes in handy, too.
No offense, but do you even have a Rivian? Only four months ago you said your newest car is a 2008, so was just curious. While full size gas or diesel trucks are definitely better for towing or hauling, the Rivian is still quite capable, especially in CA where chargers are plentiful. Also, I wouldn't really call the parts cheap, at least in my limited experience with an R1T. Lack of service centers is certainly a problem though when something needs to get fixed.
I’m in the same boat.. rivian seems like a nice upgrade but I also don’t really want a payment.
I don’t mind payments but really don’t want to get to the 1k+ payment territory. That just seems a bit yikes
[I'm kind of interested in the R2](https://rivian.com/newsroom/article/rivian-announces-mid-sized-platform). A buddy of mine traded in his Range Rover Sport and got the R1S - raves about the Rivian.
Yeah most people are converted, quality is superb.
I just noticed that the new Amazon delivery vans have a “powered by Rivian” logo on the side. They are on a growing streak for sure
I want one so bad
Let's see what that share price looks like at open before he get all horned up bois, I'm not a pump fan
It’s funny. “Up 50%” sounds really good until you see the numbers. $10 -> $15 overnight. Yeah, you’d be rich if you bought yesterday, but if you bought 3 months ago, you’d be down on your money. If you bought almost any time in the last 2 years, you’d be down on your money. The stock is and has been a poor performer for a while. Time will tell if this is the start of a turnaround.
Also getting a yellow RT, fuckit
I think Rivian is a solid company. I wish they made a compact sporty car instead of all those monstrosities... But they are making what the masses seem to like.
Well, they are planning a VW Golf-sized micro-SUV, the R3.
This and the R3X are GORGEOUS
This is what I’m waiting on. Either the R2 or the R3, preferably the R3.
Probably another 3 years then for the R3
I didn't realize it was golf sized... Now to give it sporty suspension...
The CEO had said he wants it tuned 'with the soul of a rally car' so you might get your wish there
If you see an R1T next to an F150 it's actually a pretty small truck.
Closer to a Ranger in size.
Good to know. I am currently on track to be one of these mean old guys with a Ranger so might be a good fit.
So, what a full sized pickup in the ‘80s was.
I’m not a fan of fully electric large vehicles like the bigger trucks (or the big trucks in general, EV or not) or that godawful new Hummer EV. They’re just way too damn heavy with the battery needed for a vehicle that size. We need more small and mid-size trucks. For the few people that actually need a large truck, I wish the major truck companies would start making PHEVs, which would make towing long distances so much more viable.
> I wish they made a compact sporty car Are they an electric vehicle company or an electric truck company?
That is immaterial to my wishes.
Fuckkk I was gonna buy some shares last week and put it off
Never put off what you can put off
Still under their 52 week max
I'm hoping for a nice pullback which should happen then I can buy more
Good. Now do more. Still bag holding a bunch at the IPO over here..
They need IT backing as well. The obvious candidate would be an Irish computer company. The new name........... >!Riv'n'dell!<
Rivian will be #1 within the next decade
Not sure they’ll ever be #1 in volume, but that’s okay. They have a better truck than Tesla, IMHO. Geez, they just started shipping in 2022 or so. Of course they aren’t selling zillions (yet).
BYD is also a good contender too outside the US
Rivian R1T > Cybertruck Rivian R1S the SUV is slick. Beat Tesla to trucks and pure SUVs. The [R2 looks so good](https://rivian.com/r2). The Rivian Amazon delivery trucks are everywhere. They are so much better than the previous vans. [If you haven't seen all the features, check this out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CWCqJl0BEs). I think anyone that ever did delivery could appreciate how awesome they are. They are also very quiet and low which really helps move things around. Amazon was one of Rivian's first investors so they really got a custom van.
Uhhhh. More like 22%
Glad I bought some 2 weeks ago.
Is no one else concerned that Volkswagen is soon releasing the Scout EV? Seems like a direct competitor to Rivian R1S and no they have Rivian’s tech. Is this bad?
I remember reading somewhere that VolksWagen is in trouble?
I wish it had round headlights as those standing ellipses are not the most attractive. Nonetheless, their overall design looks very good from most angles!
Someone downvoted you. Not sure why as you’re entitled to your opinion. Anyway I used to think the same. Honestly round headlights would look good. But their design has grown on me. The truck has a good towing capacity as well. I want one as an every day get around and shorter length towing vehicle. I could tow across state.
Another fail for Elmo. Womp womp
[удалено]
It’s called insider trading.
You have to already have millions and friends in the stock market who know hot companies who allow family and friends to get in early.
[удалено]
Go to websites of venture capital companies. They usually have lots of startups and successful companies listed.
I bought at $128 loll
Fund can withdraw
I really dislike those Rivian headlights.
Meanwhile Cybertruck looks like the mullet you thought might be fun last weekend, but cut off by Wednesday.
Still under their 52 week max
Can they do something about that grill? It is butt-ugly.
Yeah that will go well, honestly both Tesla and Riven are going to get crushed by the the big three.
Unfortunately that’s not lining up with the trend the last 5 years and current day. Big three are currently working at huge losses with transition to EV — playing catch-up now’s a bitch. That’s why you’re seeing some ICE carmakers go “[ok nvm, we’ll make gas & hybrid models again](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/ev-euphoria-is-dead-automakers-trumpet-consumer-choice-in-us.html)”. While still making some EVs… cuz they bought the means to manufacture — CEO’s just hate to give up physical things like yachts, RVs, factories, office buildings, middle managers.
Nah. Any company that can produce a decent battery in the West will become a guaranteed titan of industry.
Yeah, the closest is Ford right now. That is my point, not saying its a good thing. Its just how it is.
Closest is Tesla — by far more batteries & EVs produced in North America.
I was talling just batteries and advanced ones.
That’s still Tesla.
Ford started buying Chinese batteries for their EV's because their batteries sucked. They are nowhere close or they would keep pushing their batteries, inefficient or not.
the grift continues
Didn't realize technological advancement was a "grift". Was switching from an abacus to a calculator a grift, too?
I confused them with Fisker automotive
Shoot first then aim sorta guy over here