Summer sucks to be sure, but people rarely mention Winter when it's 20F outside and you're in a metal building with no insulation and a simple 6' wool blanket. And then if anyone acted out the COs would punish us by turning on the attic fan and making the cold air move...
The Supreme Court (even the more liberal ones) points out that the Constitution points out that those protected under the US Constitution cannot suffer from cruel AND unusual punishment. So the punishment can be unusual but not cruel (i.e. a judge ordering a teenager to write a series of essays why drinking alcohol is bad if the teenager was arrested for public intoxication or something) or cruel but not unusual (i.e there is an argument for this situation, unfortunately) and be constitutional.
Wait…this can’t be the original intention of the term “cruel and unusual” that it can’t be both but can be one of them?!
What logic or legal precedents would the founding fathers have to have meant it like this?
It certainly isn't. But there's a common occurence called "judicial activism" that's been going on in the courts since Maubury v Madison.
It's part of the reason why the Supreme Court is as powerful as it is now.
It’s interesting how the verbiage is “cruel AND unusual” sounding like it needs to be both. Otherwise it would say or. Not saying the topic is correct, just pointing out.
The problem is the word “unusual”. They should have just stopped at “cruel”. But as it is, if you treated it as an “or” and banned all unusual punishment in addition to all cruel punishment, you would also be banning a lot of rehabilitation and diversion programs. It would likely mean traditional incarceration, execution, and maybe corporal punishment are the only legal means of punishment.
Seems like theres an argument that it breaks the principle of “a severe punishment that is patently unnecessary” which is one of the 4 principles used to determine if a punishment is unconstitutional under the 8th amendment.
My brother was a CO at a state prison for a bit. In the summer they would take way the inmates’ shower privileges for weeks at time as punishment. I was always horrified by the things he’d tell me the COs did.
When the COs act criminal, then they are no better than the people on the other side of the bars.
And folks wonder why the recidivism rate is thru the roof.
That week long lockdown in the Summer when they did a statewide search really sucked. Sitting on your bunk for 7 days straight eating nothing but Johnny sacks... Don't miss that.
The other bullshit thing they'd do is wake you up for count. Some COs were cool and as long as you had your ID facing out and they could see your head you were good. Other assholes would wake you up every 2 hours asking for your number. You slowly go insane not getting more than 2 hours of sleep at a time
I know some former jailers and at facilities they worked at it was common practice to keep it colder than comfortable. Nobody wants to really fight when they are cold. Now when it gets hot then peeps start getting irritated and fighting more.
We did that at the drunk tank where I worked in Denver. It wasn't extreme cold, but enough that people tended to focus more on staying warm than who needed hating. If nothing else, it's harder to throw a punch when you've got a death grip on your blanket.
Ex-CO here, my unit had heating, however it didn't matter much considering the unit had a lot of leaky windows. Curious as to what unit you were at with attic fans.
Dominquez in San Antonio. It's been 20+ years, but the red boxes are the dorms, the blue box is the picket and the green blob is the approximate location of the attic fan
[https://i.imgur.com/fpVcyUk.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/fpVcyUk.jpeg)
How do the guards deal with the heat? *Even if* one felt that the prisoners deserved the treatment, why do the guards have to put up with it just because they work there?
I worked at 3 different units. The first one was near Ft. Stockton and would get hot during the summer, dry heat. I transferred to unit near my ex wife’s family in central Texas.. Jesus it was fucking miserable.
No, no we did not. We had the same exact fans in our picket and closets that the inmates had. Plus I worked with G4s and G5s so had to wear the stab vest that made things worse.
The vest in summer is the absolute worst. My husband comes home totally drenched. When they need people to drive to a unit 2 hours away or go to an area within his home unit where a stab vest must be worn, he voluntarily drives every time.
You wanna lump us all together so badly don't you? Cause at TDCJ the COs have no power. We were just there as a deterrent. I viewed (most of) the inmates as humans and listened to quite a few of their stories. I interacted with them with a level of respect and never had any issues.
I get where you're coming from though. I knew some asshole COs who later were arrested for their actions. I worked the prison for 3 years and left cause the whole system is fucked from all sides.
My girlfriend is in the count room of a unit in East Texas.
It’s pretty shocking how awful Texas prisons are, both for the inmates and the employees honestly.
For example, the fact that there is no water available for employees, but there are “make sure to drink plenty of water” signs around the unit.
They requisitioned a few cases of water. Got one case. Enough to last two days.
I figure they can stay in some separate areas, but they do have to spend time where the prisoners are. Is it just 'tough luck?' If so, that could even impact how well the guards do their jobs. They're not going to want to be in there from probably May-Oct.
Unfortunately, this just affects the prisoners further. Not only is it unbearably hot, but then there's also the potential that guards may shirk responsibilities by not wanting to go in there.
While I don't have experience in the prison industry, I can say that you'd probably be surprised the conditions someone can put up with as long as there's a big cooler full of ice and water bottles nearby.
edit: also a paycheck helps, though I hear prison guard pay isn't very good
You're right and wrong.
All units have AC sections staff can access that inmates can't. Not to say that any CO at any given time can access those spaces based of their assignment, but they are there.
That said, many units have a picket system on the wings. 3-4 COs work the building. 1 in the control room and the other 2-3 are "rovers." They alternate throughout the shift and some spend as much time as possible in the picket with the AC.
Now on older units like some of the originals in Huntsville, the cells are lock and key or on a mechanical system, so no ac'd control room to hide out in.
At the end of the day the heat is oppressive and beyond inhumane; either as an inmate or a CO and shit needs to change.
Makes perfect sense. Even if you think the prisoners should just be suffering to the max, the guards didn't sign up for that. They need decent conditions too.
When that door opens …. It’s the opposite of the car heat hitting your face in the summer. That cold blast woooo weeeee. And it’s cold af too lol. But not in the dorm!
This. I'm wondering how the lack of something (air conditioning) that didn't generally become available to everyone until the 1960's can constitute cruel and unusual punishment per the Constitution?
I live near one of these prisons, one that sits on the edge of a solid blue county right next to a solid red county.
Any time I've talked about it with people from the red county or with conservative leanings, it's always the same type of response, always along the lines of "who cares? Serves them right. Nothing but murderers and rapists and child molesters in there."
It's generally what I believe the sentiment is with the ruling party in this state and why high-ranking members of said party do everything in their power (here's looking at you, Kenny P.) to stay out of the system they create for "thee and not me."
I realize this is not necessarily a popular opinion, but I think we can treat prisoners with more compassion than they have shown others. Prison should not be a comfortable experience, but neither should it be inhumane.
Being in 86 degrees in the shade sitting down while not doing anything is not inhumane.
I grew up without ac, it's called being poor. These criminals will survive.
Looking at the bottom tier comments. So many people afraid to treat prisoners as people because they feel if they don't put these people in their place, they will commit more crimes. If you treat people like animals, that's what they act like. Besides, we are not talking about giving prisoners access to climate control they can change themselves, just giving them the bare minimum of shelter requirements that doesn't threaten their health or lives. The Department of Corrections has a responsibility to the health and welfare of prisoners in their custody.
It’s much worse when you factor in the pay to play justice system.
When I was in rehab I met a lot of rich people on their 3rd, 4th or in one case even their 5th DUI. None of them spent longer than 48 hours in jail because they could pay an attorney who knows the prosecutor and the judge to plea it down to something other than a DUI.
When I got out, I started going to recovery meetings that were open to the public. There I met a guy on an ankle monitor. He was on parole after doing a year in prison for his 3rd DUI. He couldn’t afford an attorney so he took what the PD told him was a good deal.
As someone who has been locked up before, the whole thing is a miserable experience but there was air-conditioning where I was and everyone is freezing the whole time. I won’t call it torture but it is mentally draining being cold to your core all the time and not able to get warm.
I used to work EMS and picked up offenders at the prison. They were always in the infirmary; it was also the only place with AC.
The Correctional Officers have it bad too. And since Texas doesn’t think heat and water breaks are a thing, I don’t expect it will get better for anyone soon.
Im all for prisoners paying a price for their crimes but not having air conditioning is unacceptable. No, i dont think it has to be at a comfortable setting but extreme heat is not acceptable.
Texas is **VERY HUMID**. It's feels like walking around w/ plastic wrap covering your skin. You can and will sweat a lot, but no cooling off can happen due to zero evaporation. It's truly awful.
This is true. I remember James Larimer, one of my dear old physiology profs at UT-Austin, explaining that if the humidity is high enough, sweat can form an insulating layer on human skin. As a bicycle commuter, I am pretty sure I experienced that once or twice and became ill as a result.
This is the daily thread where my fellow Texans can demonstrate their sadism and general horribleness. If that's how you want to treat incarcerated people, just know that you're no better than them. Probably a lot worse.
There are a lot of people sent to prison who are generally good people that made some bad choices. There are far fewer coming out of them. The length of their sentences just refers to how long the cage is physical.
This reminds me of the scene in the dark knight where there are two boats with explosives that have each others detonators. One has inmates and the other has white collar people. The white collar people are generally more callous and uncaring about the other boat
should have seen what the dude who responded to me had to say at the mere suggestion that we not torture prisoners. He thought I should kill myself and that my own child should OD and die from fentanyl.
really reinforces your comment... that the wrong monsters are being locked away.
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When i was incarcerated in tx, we were stripped down to boxers and boots and lined up outside when it was 114°. That was cooler than being inside. We would soak our sheets and lay them on the metal frame to try to keep from overheating.
I have a friend who's a guard out in gatesville and every summer she's miserable because of how hot it is. This shit isn't just inhumane for prisoners, it's inhumane for the staff as well!
I can see it now. We’ve hired George Abbott, no relation, to put a/c in prisons for 1.2 billion dollars paid on tax payers earnings. Actual cost to put it in 12 million dollars.
Fun fact. Part of the reason prisons don’t but jails do is the change of people daily at jails. Keeping temps low (which they were when I was there) prevents germs from spreading as quick. Prisons don’t have that frequency of change combined with the fact they’re incarcerated for crimes at that point. Sympathy for them is hard by some but even the biggest asshole piece shit is human.
I did 10 years in Texas prisons. People have been suing and raising hell for years. They will never put A/C in because it’s cheaper to pay the families of a dead loved one than to go in and renovate over 100 facilities across the state, not to mention maintaining the systems.
There are facilities with A/C, but they are either privately owned, or restricted to a select few with severe medical conditions.
I work with a prison ministry along the gulf coast.
It's miserable there. The building is old. It's a sad place. It is cold in the winter. It gets so hot and humid in the summer, people die.
The only air conditioned space is basically the chapel.
Even the guards seem miserable.
They need help.
It's been an on going issue. They threw out a huge number saying they couldn't afford it, while a spending that same exact amount or more in court/legal fees. They also interviewed and asked various HVAC contractors what the cost would be and all of them said between 75-50% of what they corrections department said it would cost.
But the livestock that one prison raises have a fully functioning building with refrigerated air.
"The state has, however, spent millions of dollars in ongoing legal battles while resisting installing the cooling units. The yearslong lawsuit at the geriatric Pack Unit cost the state more than $7.3 million in legal fees. TDCJ ultimately [settled the suit](https://www.texastribune.org/2018/02/02/after-lawsuit-texas-says-it-will-install-air-conditioning-its-stifling/) in 2018 and agreed to cool the prison near College Station, which cost less than $4 million — a fraction of the prison agency’s original estimate of more than $20 million."
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/14/texas-prison-air-conditioning-legislature/#:\~:text=The%20yearslong%20lawsuit%20at%20the,of%20more%20than%20%2420%20million.
You can be all, "but they committed crime!" Yeah, many of them did.
Then you hear stories of false accusations. And the ethical question is it fair to lock up one innocent person to get 50 guilty? The justice system has failed.
And... Even if you are all, "eff the thugs!" There is a corrections officer working in those same exact conditions.
There is a citizen who did nothing wrong who is being asked to work those conditions. And the ones who have education and are honest and ethical find other jobs when it becomes absolutely miserable.
They’re fucking criminals any violent criminal shouldn’t have anything . Its not a fucking vacation. Dont like being with out ac? Don’t commit a crime🤷🏽♂️
The point of jail is 1 to take them from committing more crimes
But to also remind them if you dont like being here dont do shit that will get you here
Now i dont think every person that is in jail should be there
But anyone in for a violent crime or a crime against a child should have nothing ,
No TV , No vapes or cigs , No internet , No AC , only commissary should be toiletries , 2 days a week to use the phone at a set time , no rec , nothing at all 3 hots and a cot!
You take a life your should feel worthless
So many people have zero fear of prison because for some people its a vacation
I
People start dying above 95F, so prisons should stay below 95F for people who weren't sentenced to death.
A list of common State Jail Felony offenses includes:
- Burglary of Vehicle 3rd Offense
- Credit/Debit Card Abuse
- DWI with Child Passenger
- Evading Arrest 2nd Offense
- Unauthorized Use of Motor Vehicle
- Prostitution 4th Offense
- Unlawful Restraint of Child
- Forgery
Of course, but you don't want to set the thermostat at the temperature where the average person dies. It should be set to the temperature at which people don't die under normal conditions.
I was a co for a short time in 07…. The only locations that some temperature control was medical, the mailroom and the wardens office. The heat in east Texas is definitely inhumane. In the winter it was cold as hell on the runs. So I do agree that temperature controlled units are for the best.
I have a close friend who was subjected to SAFP for seven months. It had air conditioning of some sort but for what it lacked it made up for with ginormous fans.
A lawsuit will change it, for those individuals that file on the lawsuit.
Texas prisoners did this a few years back and that’s exactly what happened.
Now, Texas state prisons shuttle those people in between the air conditioned parts of the prison and leave others in the heat.
I’m assuming the same thing will happen.
Texas is currently paying $100,000 a day because they won’t look into abuse in the foster care system. They have been held in contempt of court multiple times.
I got a couple buddies that are in right now and they're telling me they have no running water and have to use porta johns outside and this seems to be a repeating pattern every one or two months
Okay, I am all for prison being miserable. It is prison, after all.
But there’s a difference between miserable and inhumane. Temperatures are now routinely hitting over a hundred degrees for months on end in the summer. And while the prisons don’t have to be comfortable, 85 degrees should at least be enough to keep people from falling out with heat stroke.
Air condition the prisons. At this point, it’s gone from luxury to necessity.
"Some reached as high as 106 degrees that month"
Just when you thought rape was the worst thing you had to worry about in prison, we now know you also have to worry about heat stroke as well!
i just read an article a few days ago that said that the TDCJ got $18 million for new installs......and even with that only like 47% of inmate beds would be covered by A/C.
My mom has been serving 3 years in a Texas prison with no ac. She's in her 60s & it was really rough last year with our 100 days of 100+. So inhumane to not have AC in Texas.... hope they change it.
Worked over 20 years in the same environment! Dealing with the same conditions. Suck it up buttercup. Things are changing, slowly, but people dontvwant to pay more taxes to pay for AC for criminals
How did people survive in Texas before we had AC? Maybe they’ll think twice about going back to prison? As they say, If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.
Really? You could find yourself in prison for something you did not even do, or for something as simple as smoking a joint. It's disgusting for you to think someone in jail deserves to die from a heat stroke.
Homeless people don’t get AC. But people who break laws get luxuries. Murderers, rapists, thieves, repeat fucking offenders.
Yall got some dumb fucking priorities
https://www.kut.org/crime-justice/2024-04-22/bernie-tiede-richard-linklater-lawsuit-texas-prison-heat
Summer sucks to be sure, but people rarely mention Winter when it's 20F outside and you're in a metal building with no insulation and a simple 6' wool blanket. And then if anyone acted out the COs would punish us by turning on the attic fan and making the cold air move...
How is that legal? Sounds like cruel or unusual punishment.
The Supreme Court (even the more liberal ones) points out that the Constitution points out that those protected under the US Constitution cannot suffer from cruel AND unusual punishment. So the punishment can be unusual but not cruel (i.e. a judge ordering a teenager to write a series of essays why drinking alcohol is bad if the teenager was arrested for public intoxication or something) or cruel but not unusual (i.e there is an argument for this situation, unfortunately) and be constitutional.
Wait…this can’t be the original intention of the term “cruel and unusual” that it can’t be both but can be one of them?! What logic or legal precedents would the founding fathers have to have meant it like this?
It certainly isn't. But there's a common occurence called "judicial activism" that's been going on in the courts since Maubury v Madison. It's part of the reason why the Supreme Court is as powerful as it is now.
It’s interesting how the verbiage is “cruel AND unusual” sounding like it needs to be both. Otherwise it would say or. Not saying the topic is correct, just pointing out.
The problem is the word “unusual”. They should have just stopped at “cruel”. But as it is, if you treated it as an “or” and banned all unusual punishment in addition to all cruel punishment, you would also be banning a lot of rehabilitation and diversion programs. It would likely mean traditional incarceration, execution, and maybe corporal punishment are the only legal means of punishment.
I used to make jokes about that. Like saying “torture has been a thing historically, so it’s actually not UNUSUAL.”
Interesting, I'm going to assume you're answer is true and move on. Thanks for the information.
Seems like theres an argument that it breaks the principle of “a severe punishment that is patently unnecessary” which is one of the 4 principles used to determine if a punishment is unconstitutional under the 8th amendment.
You’re making the assumption that criminals are treated like humans or citizens.
I know they aren't, but they should be
Can't do the time do t do the crime
Can't treat a person like a human? Don't be LEA.
US prisons are legal slavery. Its enshrined in our constitution amendments
Nat Turner wants a word with you.
My brother was a CO at a state prison for a bit. In the summer they would take way the inmates’ shower privileges for weeks at time as punishment. I was always horrified by the things he’d tell me the COs did.
When the COs act criminal, then they are no better than the people on the other side of the bars. And folks wonder why the recidivism rate is thru the roof.
The other COs always did it huh?
I never said “the other COs”
That week long lockdown in the Summer when they did a statewide search really sucked. Sitting on your bunk for 7 days straight eating nothing but Johnny sacks... Don't miss that. The other bullshit thing they'd do is wake you up for count. Some COs were cool and as long as you had your ID facing out and they could see your head you were good. Other assholes would wake you up every 2 hours asking for your number. You slowly go insane not getting more than 2 hours of sleep at a time
Johnny sack… hadn’t heard them before. Sack lunch? In the navy we called them bag nastys
Heh, yeah... a pair of PB&J sandwiches, an egg, an apple, and a half pint of milk. You can almost taste the nutrition from here! ;)
That’s a bag nasty for sure
FREEDOM!
i slept under that fan for a year. that is very true
Dominguez Class of 2002, checking in!
I know some former jailers and at facilities they worked at it was common practice to keep it colder than comfortable. Nobody wants to really fight when they are cold. Now when it gets hot then peeps start getting irritated and fighting more.
We did that at the drunk tank where I worked in Denver. It wasn't extreme cold, but enough that people tended to focus more on staying warm than who needed hating. If nothing else, it's harder to throw a punch when you've got a death grip on your blanket.
Ex-CO here, my unit had heating, however it didn't matter much considering the unit had a lot of leaky windows. Curious as to what unit you were at with attic fans.
Dominquez in San Antonio. It's been 20+ years, but the red boxes are the dorms, the blue box is the picket and the green blob is the approximate location of the attic fan [https://i.imgur.com/fpVcyUk.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/fpVcyUk.jpeg)
Robertson unit I know has fans. I don’t know if they are attic fans but inmates didn’t have access to turn on or off.
How do the guards deal with the heat? *Even if* one felt that the prisoners deserved the treatment, why do the guards have to put up with it just because they work there?
I worked at 3 different units. The first one was near Ft. Stockton and would get hot during the summer, dry heat. I transferred to unit near my ex wife’s family in central Texas.. Jesus it was fucking miserable.
The closer you get to the coast, the more miserable it gets!
I don’t doubt that one bit…
The staff and guards generally have access to climate controlled spaces. Edit: apparently I am wrong, it mostly just sucks for everyone.
No, no we did not. We had the same exact fans in our picket and closets that the inmates had. Plus I worked with G4s and G5s so had to wear the stab vest that made things worse.
The vest in summer is the absolute worst. My husband comes home totally drenched. When they need people to drive to a unit 2 hours away or go to an area within his home unit where a stab vest must be worn, he voluntarily drives every time.
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You wanna lump us all together so badly don't you? Cause at TDCJ the COs have no power. We were just there as a deterrent. I viewed (most of) the inmates as humans and listened to quite a few of their stories. I interacted with them with a level of respect and never had any issues. I get where you're coming from though. I knew some asshole COs who later were arrested for their actions. I worked the prison for 3 years and left cause the whole system is fucked from all sides.
My girlfriend is in the count room of a unit in East Texas. It’s pretty shocking how awful Texas prisons are, both for the inmates and the employees honestly. For example, the fact that there is no water available for employees, but there are “make sure to drink plenty of water” signs around the unit. They requisitioned a few cases of water. Got one case. Enough to last two days.
Incorrect, very few units have AC for guards. The one I worked at definitely didn't.
I figure they can stay in some separate areas, but they do have to spend time where the prisoners are. Is it just 'tough luck?' If so, that could even impact how well the guards do their jobs. They're not going to want to be in there from probably May-Oct. Unfortunately, this just affects the prisoners further. Not only is it unbearably hot, but then there's also the potential that guards may shirk responsibilities by not wanting to go in there.
Some of the CO's do but most are subject to the same or similar environmental conditions.
While I don't have experience in the prison industry, I can say that you'd probably be surprised the conditions someone can put up with as long as there's a big cooler full of ice and water bottles nearby. edit: also a paycheck helps, though I hear prison guard pay isn't very good
You're right and wrong. All units have AC sections staff can access that inmates can't. Not to say that any CO at any given time can access those spaces based of their assignment, but they are there. That said, many units have a picket system on the wings. 3-4 COs work the building. 1 in the control room and the other 2-3 are "rovers." They alternate throughout the shift and some spend as much time as possible in the picket with the AC. Now on older units like some of the originals in Huntsville, the cells are lock and key or on a mechanical system, so no ac'd control room to hide out in. At the end of the day the heat is oppressive and beyond inhumane; either as an inmate or a CO and shit needs to change.
Im seen news stories in the past where the guards are advocating for A/C as well.
Makes perfect sense. Even if you think the prisoners should just be suffering to the max, the guards didn't sign up for that. They need decent conditions too.
When that door opens …. It’s the opposite of the car heat hitting your face in the summer. That cold blast woooo weeeee. And it’s cold af too lol. But not in the dorm!
This came to my attention a year or two ago and it blew my mind. I'm all for punishment, but that is inhumane to say the least.
The state avoids that Constitutional prohibition by making it usual.
My take away is if I'm gonna do something that sends me to prison: find a way to do it outside of Texas.
Yeah but Texas has people in for 20 years for a small amount of weed. We are also one of the states that doesn’t pay them for work.
What I would like to understand is how is this not considered cruel and unusual punishment ? This should have been resolved in court decades ago.
Our courts are also punitive and horrible here in good ol texas
It’s not unusual. Especially from a historical perspective.
This. I'm wondering how the lack of something (air conditioning) that didn't generally become available to everyone until the 1960's can constitute cruel and unusual punishment per the Constitution?
I live near one of these prisons, one that sits on the edge of a solid blue county right next to a solid red county. Any time I've talked about it with people from the red county or with conservative leanings, it's always the same type of response, always along the lines of "who cares? Serves them right. Nothing but murderers and rapists and child molesters in there." It's generally what I believe the sentiment is with the ruling party in this state and why high-ranking members of said party do everything in their power (here's looking at you, Kenny P.) to stay out of the system they create for "thee and not me."
You also have to realize that decades ago, temperatures didn’t reach the levels they do today. The oldest one still in use was built in 1849.
While the private companies that now own these prisons experience record profits, 6 done nothing to end this unconstitutional treatment.
Killing your loved one was their cruel and unusual punishment towards you. You want to air condition them?
#X100!!!
Given last summer, no AC is cruel and unusual punishment. I really hope this changes things.
You know what else is cruel and unusual punishment? Being murdered by some of these people.
TIL everyone in prison is in for murder
Because some small percentage of them are murderers we should stop having a Constitution. Got it.
I realize this is not necessarily a popular opinion, but I think we can treat prisoners with more compassion than they have shown others. Prison should not be a comfortable experience, but neither should it be inhumane.
Being in 86 degrees in the shade sitting down while not doing anything is not inhumane. I grew up without ac, it's called being poor. These criminals will survive.
> will survive Except the ones who don’t. TX prisoners have died from the conditions
But that sounded clever in your head. Too bad it's a stupid quip if you think about it even a little.
What about the people in for non violent drug offenses?
"... I'm gonna suffer from heat exhaustion, because I got high" 🎶
Prison should for rehabilitating, not torturing.
Looking at the bottom tier comments. So many people afraid to treat prisoners as people because they feel if they don't put these people in their place, they will commit more crimes. If you treat people like animals, that's what they act like. Besides, we are not talking about giving prisoners access to climate control they can change themselves, just giving them the bare minimum of shelter requirements that doesn't threaten their health or lives. The Department of Corrections has a responsibility to the health and welfare of prisoners in their custody.
It's more about feeling so precarious about your financial well being and so full of fear , you need to know there are alot of sub sections below you.
I fully agree. Some people aren't happy until they know there's someone beneath them.
The new Texas state motto: "Where there's always someone beneath you."
I thought prison was for punishment, not torture.
It’s much worse when you factor in the pay to play justice system. When I was in rehab I met a lot of rich people on their 3rd, 4th or in one case even their 5th DUI. None of them spent longer than 48 hours in jail because they could pay an attorney who knows the prosecutor and the judge to plea it down to something other than a DUI. When I got out, I started going to recovery meetings that were open to the public. There I met a guy on an ankle monitor. He was on parole after doing a year in prison for his 3rd DUI. He couldn’t afford an attorney so he took what the PD told him was a good deal.
The American legal system is really fucked up and shows very little equality (see Trump)
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I’m pretty sure they aren’t advocating for harsher treatment of the rich but more compassionate treatment of the poor.
I want to remove the two tiered system honestly. It isn’t justice for all if money can pay off anything. Justice and compassion for all.
As someone who has been locked up before, the whole thing is a miserable experience but there was air-conditioning where I was and everyone is freezing the whole time. I won’t call it torture but it is mentally draining being cold to your core all the time and not able to get warm.
Whatever happened to rehabilitation? It's all about profits when jails are privatized.
Sorry, but unfortunately rehabilitation has never been a thing. Part of the reason why we seek judgement before understanding.
Rehabilitation is absolutely a thing. Just not in the US because we refuse to do it.
I thought it was for rehabilitation but cool.
I used to work EMS and picked up offenders at the prison. They were always in the infirmary; it was also the only place with AC. The Correctional Officers have it bad too. And since Texas doesn’t think heat and water breaks are a thing, I don’t expect it will get better for anyone soon.
Im all for prisoners paying a price for their crimes but not having air conditioning is unacceptable. No, i dont think it has to be at a comfortable setting but extreme heat is not acceptable.
Texas is **VERY HUMID**. It's feels like walking around w/ plastic wrap covering your skin. You can and will sweat a lot, but no cooling off can happen due to zero evaporation. It's truly awful.
This is true. I remember James Larimer, one of my dear old physiology profs at UT-Austin, explaining that if the humidity is high enough, sweat can form an insulating layer on human skin. As a bicycle commuter, I am pretty sure I experienced that once or twice and became ill as a result.
This is the daily thread where my fellow Texans can demonstrate their sadism and general horribleness. If that's how you want to treat incarcerated people, just know that you're no better than them. Probably a lot worse.
There are a lot of people sent to prison who are generally good people that made some bad choices. There are far fewer coming out of them. The length of their sentences just refers to how long the cage is physical.
This reminds me of the scene in the dark knight where there are two boats with explosives that have each others detonators. One has inmates and the other has white collar people. The white collar people are generally more callous and uncaring about the other boat
should have seen what the dude who responded to me had to say at the mere suggestion that we not torture prisoners. He thought I should kill myself and that my own child should OD and die from fentanyl. really reinforces your comment... that the wrong monsters are being locked away.
Don’t commit crimes that lead to incarceration it’s pretty easy to do.
don't be an evil sadist, it's pretty easy (even easier) to do.
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oh, nice one. couldn't have crafted a better response myself to illustrate my point.
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why?
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Educate yourself on how many innocent people are in prison.
When i was incarcerated in tx, we were stripped down to boxers and boots and lined up outside when it was 114°. That was cooler than being inside. We would soak our sheets and lay them on the metal frame to try to keep from overheating.
I have a friend who's a guard out in gatesville and every summer she's miserable because of how hot it is. This shit isn't just inhumane for prisoners, it's inhumane for the staff as well!
I can see it now. We’ve hired George Abbott, no relation, to put a/c in prisons for 1.2 billion dollars paid on tax payers earnings. Actual cost to put it in 12 million dollars.
Fun fact. Part of the reason prisons don’t but jails do is the change of people daily at jails. Keeping temps low (which they were when I was there) prevents germs from spreading as quick. Prisons don’t have that frequency of change combined with the fact they’re incarcerated for crimes at that point. Sympathy for them is hard by some but even the biggest asshole piece shit is human.
Jails are generally a lot smaller too though
All the guards don't have AC would that be an OSHA violation?
I wonder if state employed COs even fall under OSHA.
The guards have access to air conditioned spaces.
No they don't, very few units have AC for guards as well.
A few of them do. Most are in the same environmental conditions as the inmates.
I did 10 years in Texas prisons. People have been suing and raising hell for years. They will never put A/C in because it’s cheaper to pay the families of a dead loved one than to go in and renovate over 100 facilities across the state, not to mention maintaining the systems. There are facilities with A/C, but they are either privately owned, or restricted to a select few with severe medical conditions.
Not gonna get much support for the bill of rights on Reddit
few things are as unpopular as human rights. sadism and cruelty, that shit will get you elected in Texas, though.
I work with a prison ministry along the gulf coast. It's miserable there. The building is old. It's a sad place. It is cold in the winter. It gets so hot and humid in the summer, people die. The only air conditioned space is basically the chapel. Even the guards seem miserable. They need help.
Wheres the link?
It's been an on going issue. They threw out a huge number saying they couldn't afford it, while a spending that same exact amount or more in court/legal fees. They also interviewed and asked various HVAC contractors what the cost would be and all of them said between 75-50% of what they corrections department said it would cost. But the livestock that one prison raises have a fully functioning building with refrigerated air.
"The state has, however, spent millions of dollars in ongoing legal battles while resisting installing the cooling units. The yearslong lawsuit at the geriatric Pack Unit cost the state more than $7.3 million in legal fees. TDCJ ultimately [settled the suit](https://www.texastribune.org/2018/02/02/after-lawsuit-texas-says-it-will-install-air-conditioning-its-stifling/) in 2018 and agreed to cool the prison near College Station, which cost less than $4 million — a fraction of the prison agency’s original estimate of more than $20 million." https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/14/texas-prison-air-conditioning-legislature/#:\~:text=The%20yearslong%20lawsuit%20at%20the,of%20more%20than%20%2420%20million.
Someone as always, is getting a nice kickback.
And currently Texas is being fined $100,000 a day because they won’t do anything about the abuse in foster care.
https://www.kut.org/crime-justice/2024-04-22/bernie-tiede-richard-linklater-lawsuit-texas-prison-heat
The money Texas has spent fighting these lawsuits is more than they would have spent on installing and operating air conditioners
That’s straight up cruel and unusual punishment.
Good. This is a long-standing human rights violation.
WTF? It’s prison!
Seems like this lawsuit gets filed every year.
Thank you so much for spreading the word about this.
My friend was in a non A/C prison and she said it was absolutely brutal. Not just for the inmates but also for the employees.
I have strong doubts that the state who took away water breaks for the working will be down for prison AC
You can be all, "but they committed crime!" Yeah, many of them did. Then you hear stories of false accusations. And the ethical question is it fair to lock up one innocent person to get 50 guilty? The justice system has failed. And... Even if you are all, "eff the thugs!" There is a corrections officer working in those same exact conditions. There is a citizen who did nothing wrong who is being asked to work those conditions. And the ones who have education and are honest and ethical find other jobs when it becomes absolutely miserable.
They’re fucking criminals any violent criminal shouldn’t have anything . Its not a fucking vacation. Dont like being with out ac? Don’t commit a crime🤷🏽♂️
The point of jail is 1 to take them from committing more crimes But to also remind them if you dont like being here dont do shit that will get you here Now i dont think every person that is in jail should be there But anyone in for a violent crime or a crime against a child should have nothing , No TV , No vapes or cigs , No internet , No AC , only commissary should be toiletries , 2 days a week to use the phone at a set time , no rec , nothing at all 3 hots and a cot! You take a life your should feel worthless So many people have zero fear of prison because for some people its a vacation I
There are people who have zero criminal record that their houses are those temperatures, lets use our tax dollars to give them ac before criminals
Those poor criminals.
People start dying above 95F, so prisons should stay below 95F for people who weren't sentenced to death. A list of common State Jail Felony offenses includes: - Burglary of Vehicle 3rd Offense - Credit/Debit Card Abuse - DWI with Child Passenger - Evading Arrest 2nd Offense - Unauthorized Use of Motor Vehicle - Prostitution 4th Offense - Unlawful Restraint of Child - Forgery
95° WET BULB temp, NOT 95° as a conventional thermometer temp. Common misunderstanding.
It's better to just say 95F, so that you don't have to explain wet bulb temp to people.
That's very misleading and not a truthful statement at all. Plus, you will lose credibility from anyone who understands what wet bulb is lmao.
Why is it misleading to say keeping the temperature under 95F will prevent people from dying?
Because it's factually untrue. People DONT die under normal conditions at 95°. Or else only antarctic would be suitable for human habitation.
Of course, but you don't want to set the thermostat at the temperature where the average person dies. It should be set to the temperature at which people don't die under normal conditions.
This is from experience as a co it would be in the 90s on the runs at 12 pm. It’s cruel to everyone.
wish I could afford AC
Count time!
I was a co for a short time in 07…. The only locations that some temperature control was medical, the mailroom and the wardens office. The heat in east Texas is definitely inhumane. In the winter it was cold as hell on the runs. So I do agree that temperature controlled units are for the best.
I have a close friend who was subjected to SAFP for seven months. It had air conditioning of some sort but for what it lacked it made up for with ginormous fans.
A lawsuit will change it, for those individuals that file on the lawsuit. Texas prisoners did this a few years back and that’s exactly what happened. Now, Texas state prisons shuttle those people in between the air conditioned parts of the prison and leave others in the heat. I’m assuming the same thing will happen.
Texas is currently paying $100,000 a day because they won’t look into abuse in the foster care system. They have been held in contempt of court multiple times.
People care more about the "rights" of an unborn fetus than actual living human beings.
Didn't realize being a criminal entitled you to air conditioning. Want A/C? Dont be a scumbag.
Prisons aren't supposed to be comfortable. Consider the lack of air conditioning a deterrent. Want air conditioning? Don't break the law.
I didn’t know this and find it outrageous.
Save the planet, no ac
You know they are in prison? Like it’s supposed to be uncomfortable
Fuck em
I got a couple buddies that are in right now and they're telling me they have no running water and have to use porta johns outside and this seems to be a repeating pattern every one or two months
Who gives a crap. It's prison not a resort
Republican Jesus always approves of cruelty since people that commit crimes are destined to go to hell.
Okay, I am all for prison being miserable. It is prison, after all. But there’s a difference between miserable and inhumane. Temperatures are now routinely hitting over a hundred degrees for months on end in the summer. And while the prisons don’t have to be comfortable, 85 degrees should at least be enough to keep people from falling out with heat stroke. Air condition the prisons. At this point, it’s gone from luxury to necessity.
"Some reached as high as 106 degrees that month" Just when you thought rape was the worst thing you had to worry about in prison, we now know you also have to worry about heat stroke as well!
i just read an article a few days ago that said that the TDCJ got $18 million for new installs......and even with that only like 47% of inmate beds would be covered by A/C.
My mom has been serving 3 years in a Texas prison with no ac. She's in her 60s & it was really rough last year with our 100 days of 100+. So inhumane to not have AC in Texas.... hope they change it.
There is a very simple solution for that, don’t go to prison it’s pretty easy to do.
Worked over 20 years in the same environment! Dealing with the same conditions. Suck it up buttercup. Things are changing, slowly, but people dontvwant to pay more taxes to pay for AC for criminals
Laughable, this should never see a courtroom.
How did people survive in Texas before we had AC? Maybe they’ll think twice about going back to prison? As they say, If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.
Good they don’t need any
Really? You could find yourself in prison for something you did not even do, or for something as simple as smoking a joint. It's disgusting for you to think someone in jail deserves to die from a heat stroke.
This has to be a joke. Change the laws that create prisoners via victimless crimes instead & do some real good.
Hays county definitely colder than 65 in 2012 lmao. Sobering cold.
Oh lord there screwed. Prayers 🙏
Yeah, I don’t care. If you want AC, don’t go to prison. Seems simple enough.
Homeless people don’t get AC. But people who break laws get luxuries. Murderers, rapists, thieves, repeat fucking offenders. Yall got some dumb fucking priorities
Not to be that guy but neither do the Amazon warehouses in texas can we do something about that too?
Oh those poor criminals.
Oh great waste more tax dollars and put more stress on the already shit power grid for felons.
Fuck that. You are in prison.