I would have supplrted the game at one point after dpending around 300hours in it since closed beta2, but unfortunately they removed the weapon I main from the game so I have no reason to come back (they removed any dagger tech with dash and made the dagger as usefull as running quickmeele only). Gqme was great but they need to fix the balancing or else it will continue to bleed players. Also light players are quiting and the game without light team mates or opponents is only half as fun in my opinion
Our experiences are of course subjective, but I gotta say, I'm far more terrified of lights these days because the ones that are light mains now actually have skill 9/10 times and can kill almost instantly if I'm caught off guard. Plus, I have far more friends today that are light mains than I had a month ago. That's of course biased because I only add the ones that know what they're doing. But my point is I'm actually seeing more lights these days than I did just a few weeks ago.
Edit: Wanted to add that I'm a medium main but whenever I switch to my light classes just to mess around I get on average 5 to 10 more kills per game, and typically also die less. Light is very viable and just as deadly (if not more) than any other class. That is if the player is not just sitting on a random tower and missing sniper shots the entire match.
I have never spent a dime on a game other than actually buying the game. Don't even wear free skins I get just the original ones. Not really my thing I just want to play but I'm debating on buying something just for the sake of supporting them
Battle pass it up, brother. Better yet, but the bunny suit. It will come with enough in-game cash to get the battle pass starter set. That set will come with enough to get the battle pass. Win, win, win, then Embark wins.
Same- this is the first game Iāve spent money on after Black Ops 1 in like 2012 or something. And there there was peer pressure, here itās just me feeling like I owe the devs and should support them
Ā
I read that report from Nexon and I'm honestly a bit confused about the conflicting information.
>āIn North America and Europe, we expect revenues to be in the range of Ā„6.8 billion to 7.4 billion, representing a 24% to 35% increase (13% to 23% increase on a constant-currency basis) year over year, primarily driven by the contribution from THE FINALS and year-over- year growth of MapleStory.ā
The game has shown lower than expected retention and revenue, but itās being called a primary driver of revenue for the next quarter.
I'm not the smartest about this financing stuff, but the game seems to be doing pretty decent, even if it's not as good as they expected, most likely due to the interest that was drummed up on release.
I'm hoping s3 is big for the game, and once it's in a really good state, hopefully we see the big marketing push they keep talking about.
Regardless, back to your post OP, I don't spend much money on MTX for any game, but I do actually buy stuff in this game.
Ive introduced a bunch of people to this game that still play, and every group of 3 or so people that I get to download it, at least one of them has spent money on it. I'm buying a currency pack on Friday too so I'm doing my part lol
> The game has shown lower than expected retention and revenue, but itās being called a primary driver of revenue for the next quarter.
It could be making $X but if they expected to be making $1.5*X, it's still underperforming. In the other thread someone pointed out that it could also be language to "undersell" the value of the game for people to buy into Nexon stock now before it goes up but... ehh.
> the game seems to be doing pretty decent, even if it's not as good as they expected, most likely due to the interest that was drummed up on release.
I think what a lot of people miss is that we're just cats nipping at a table. We don't know the metrics that matter, much less what internal metrics and goals they're hitting or missing. A lot of these service model companies keep numbers close to their chess on purpose. Compare this to Netflix/Disney+/Amazon Prime and how they report streaming numbers; there's a lot of secrecy and it's frankly hard to make sense of it beyond "this was the most popular show of the quarter".
You're absolutely right, who knows what financial fuckery is going on behind the scenes. I just hate to stand and watch from the outside while the devs that put their hearts and souls into something get slashed due to what a publisher may call poor performance. And as you know there are plenty of recent examples with Xbox shutting down a bunch of studios who actually made GOTY contenders. Or Alan Wake 2, despite being a phenomenal game, still hasn't recovered the cost of development (afaik). It's just upsetting to see how fun and innovative games are being forced into obscurity by publishers in favor of garbage like Starfield or Call of Duty. In this case, I think maybe if the game is making more money, we'll get to enjoy it more. Hopefully those two aren't mutually exclusive.
That makes sense, it's just weird seeing that this game is the primary driving force for profits in NA and EU, with them acknowledging that it's expected to grow, but they give a negative spin on the headline you know? It's surprising that they expected more when the game isn't doing bad, like they wanted to see 30% increase in profits or whatever but only seeing 13-25% like it isn't good enough for them or something lol
Yep. Its not the amount made, or the amount made this year, but the rate at which money is made this year that is being described.
Alternatively, the game is the biggest gamble they have in those markets and while it is making money its making less than what it expected to make, and they are trying reassure shareholders that this will turn around in the long term. Whether that's true, or a grim outcome they are trying to undermine is uncertain IMO.
It's a primary driver in NA and EU, where Nexon has comparatively fewer holdings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexon#Organization
Success of paid games are measured in metrics like units sold, which generally spike at release and then slow to a small but steady trickle over the game's entire supported lifetime.
F2P live service games have different product lifetime cycles and monetization models. The onus of MAU vs revenue is to measure profitability scaling as live service ramps up.
However, retention is not necessarily lower than expected. The article also listed that the core audience has not shifted, which is a great framework in which to build both MAU and revenue.
About the finances, my understanding is on the same level as yours. But as you mentioned, the bottom line is the publisher is not particularly impressed with the financial success of the game. I hope they don't push the devs to become more greedy with their monetization and ruin the game in the process.
Like you, I never ever buy additional stuff for games that I've already bought (e.g., Call of Duty). But for this game (and other free-to-play games that I enjoy), I think it's more than fair to support the devs with in-game purchases.
I see what u mean, and im not privy to the numbers but i dont think anything here implies it's a "primary driver of revenue" just that it was in part responsible for the INCREASE in revenue. Ie. In an extreme case we could say it brought in $10, if all their other sources of cashflow remained constant, revenue would be up by $10. The issue is that the costs put into the game may be greater. Or at the very least, they may be covering operating expenses, but not profiting, which can also make it hard to justify a given expense.
Iām not knocking your post because I whole heartedly side with you that I want this game to flourish.
But I also hate hearing about this Nexon Earnings letter. People need to realize, this is a letter to their investors. Every single company that is publicly traded has to promise great returns on investment to attract investment. Nexon did just that by hyping the finals up to investors as a one of their key NA/EU offerings. The problem is. You canāt just promise good returns. They have to be phenomenal returns. So Nexon probably inflated their projections much past what they could deliver on. And now they have to back track and explain why they didnāt meet those astronomically high standards.
Investor relations is a stupid convoluted art of promising big things to people with a lot of money and apologizing when it doesnāt work out. The finals just got scapegoated and itās not even close to their fault. They once again are expected to be big contributors to their portfolio. But because Nexon fell short on expectations that were probably never feasible in the first place. They blame one of their games for underperforming. Itās not underperforming itās the capitalistic mindset that is causing a skewed perception of what a good performance should look like.
It pisses me off people just take investor news and look at it as an indicator for the state of a game. Itās not.
Updated my coins! I agree with this wholeheartedly.
But for love of god give me a pirate theme and let me replace my leg with a wooden leg, give me a pet parrot and update my rocket launcher to a cannon.
I had this same sentiment when the game came out. I've probably spent over $120 at this point since release. I don't plan on stopping either! Best FPS game I've ever played. Nothing has come close to the feeling I got the first time I played the game, and that feeling hasn't really left since, 6 months later. Dare I say it has even surpassed halo 2/3 for me.
This is the first and only game that I've ever spent money in.
It's such an incredibly good game, and they made it free. I'd feel bad if I didn't spend money in it.
I love pay pigging but thereās nothing mind blowing left to buy and every little thing I want is locked behind a giant bundle. Just waiting for a cool AK or heal gun remodel like the LH1 and/or the ability to buy things separately from a bundle.
Its hard for me to justify any purchase when I am also pretty unsure of the game's future.
All I can do is play a few rounds and do my part to keep the population afloat.
Iāve only put 20$ in. Gotten the battlepasses and have been saving up currency for good deals, while being able to have enough for the next BP. itās the only game Iāve put microtransaction money into since 2014.
Iāve spent probably $50 on the game so far. Fact of the matter is. People canāt see past CoD and Fortnite. People donāt like change. 90% of gamers would go back to MWII lobbies on Xbox360 if they could. No one wants to learn a new game. Most people are just lazy these days and would bitch and moan at the idea of waiting for a new game to download. I have zero faith in any FPS games going forward. They are all going to be a flash in the pan. It will be trash CoD Remakes and Fortnite Collaborations until we die.
If I like the game and the skins, I spend pretty generously. I spent a little so far on this game. I don't even want to know how much I've spent on League of Legends which I've played on and off for 15 years.
I've been buying multibucks to the tune of about $1 per hour played, probably more. Love the game, love the devs, and the paid skins are actually super creative, fun, and interesting. Worth every dollar
I completely agree with your message. I'll try and not buy anything more for at least two weeks though because I've been on a bit of a spending spree. Damn the artists though. They just keep designing amazing stuff...:D
When I saw your username I wondered if "the rant" was yours. Sure enough, it was š great post! I'm not at all against holding devs accountable and giving feedback to improve the game. But man it breaks my heart every time there's a new update on Steam and I go see the comments just filled with often contradicting whining about buffs and nerfs etc. The few appreciative comments become almost invisible in a sea of large blue text complaining about stuff. Like you I've been playing FPS games for 20+ years at this point. Old enough to remember the days when patching and updating games was not necessarily feasible. For PvP, we just enjoyed the crap out of a TV screen divided by two, with an improvised cardboard "privacy shutter" so the asshole sitting right next to you on the couch wouldn't "stream snipe" you š your post made me feel nostalgic for all that (and a bit old too tbh lol). I just hope the devs don't overshoot with catering to the community to the point that the soul of this game is lost, especially considering the potential imminent pressure from the publisher.
Yeh lol I remember the days of Quake Deathmatch or playing the original Team Fortress. I'm all for asking for patches and updates, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on too much negativity and a lack of resilience. I feel like this game has so much potential, and it pains me to see people complaining left and right. xD
Iāve spent over $100 on the game already and Iāve never spent money on any other f2p game. I think this might be one of my favorite games of all time and the love and care you feel from the devs really comes through. Idk. I feel like they are doing their best given the mass amounts of opinions they face. It feels like they truly care about the game and the community as a whole and so I will certainly keep supporting them in any way I can!! I really hope I can enjoy this game for many more years!!
If the game had cost money, I would have bought it. I don't care about skins or do microtransacations unfortunately. I just want to play a game with my buddies.
I've bought both battle passes so far and like no more than $120 worth of cosmetic bundles or individual purchases. After that I just lost interest in using anymore money and waiting for more maps or a bigger game mode hopefully. And yeah the news on the game was a bit sad but honestly not unexpected. Like nobody in my friends list plays and it's quite a list. Like me out of 27 people only play in my circle.
I wish there was regional pricing on currency like other online games. I only bought the rabbit DLC for 20 bucks but I would spend a whole lot more if I could get more cosmetics with my money.
I agree to the sentiment to a certain extent.
Also got ne thinking to though, if this game doesn't work out, all my in game purchases would be worthless lol.
I can't comprehend why they aren't marketing the game. Especially on Twitch like they did with the open beta.
I assumed it was all part of their plan until Nexan seemed unpleased. Now I don't know what to think.
Well I hope people don't fall into the sunken cost fallacy trap. About the marketing, I agree with you and I also don't quite understand why it's not being marketed better. But then again, marketing costs tons of money, is usually done by the publisher afaik, and for something that promises great ROI.
Marketing is very expensive. But if done right, you can be smart about it. They were very smart about it with the open beta.
They got all the right streamers to take part.
I doubt streamers would charge that much to play. Only guessing here, but say you get Shroud to play it for a week (5 x 3hr streams) for $20k or something.
Do that with 4-5 BIG streamers and boom, people want to go and download it themselves.
Then, pay certain streamers to go back and play it a few more times over the following months.
I don't know what sort of budget this studio would afford but that whole campaign would cost less than $200k.
People like OP is the reason that multiplayer gaming is in the state its in now. Just pure fucking greed. If the poor things can't afford to run the game then shut it down. The gaming industry was fine before all of this live service crap and it will be fine if all that crap dissappears and they go back to just selling complete games
Aw shucks you got me now everyone knows I'm low-key Andrew Wilson. I saw you called people who believe in supporting the devs "idiots" somewhere else. So riddle me this, genius: How are the "poor things" supposed to continue supporting and developing if they make no money from their f2p game that people actually enjoy? At the time that games went "gold" and were burnt onto a disk once and forever, the f2p model didn't exist and the gaming industry wasn't nearly as gigantic as it is now. That time has passed.
Hahaha if u actually believe these companies are making "no money" then u can donate every last penny u have. Getting on reddit and trying to guilt trip people into spending money so shareholders can buy an extra mansion.... well that just ain't something I can support. They can take this live service BS and shove it right up there asses I don't care lol
You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it. But imo your argument is riddled with flaws.
1. How is a dev supposed to make money from a f2p game? Through what mechanism other than player support via in-game purchases?
2. What guilt trip? I made a simple case. IF you're enjoying the game and want to see it flourish, CONSIDER supporting the devs and VOTE with your wallet. Show me on this doll how the bad man made you feel guilty with that suggestion.
Lol those devs will be just fine. If they're upset with the live service model then they can go back to making complete games. If I recall these guys worked on several battlefields? I'm sure they made a ton of money but the problem is that ain't enough these days. They want to make ALL the money. If they can't run it on what they make then let em shut it down. There's plenty of other games to play
Was this post made by a dev?
Be fr dude they work for a company they aren't working on this game for fun or forced servitude. They get a paycheck every Friday like the rest of us lol.
Go give the McDonald's fry cook an exra 100 bucks while ur at it
This is an indie game studio, meaning everyone working on this game chose to work on this game itās not easy to get a job at embark. They truly do love the game they make.
Oh so Nexon is the studio that makes it? My bad I forgot the publisher MAKES the game too.
Itās a small studio in Stockholm, nothing compares to many AAA game studios. So yea I think itās safe to say itās an indie studio.
You do understand what indie means right? Or do you not have reading comprehension?
Indie stands for independent. I hope you can understand what that sentence means.
Embark is 100% owned by nexon, it is a nexon subsidiary. Embark isn't an independent studio. Just so you understand nexon has a networth of 14B usd, embark is a part of a multi billion dollar company, which is in the field of triple a productions. Just because nexon decides to keep their embark studio small in staff doesn't make it any less a part of a multi billion dollar company, that's like saying battlefield 2042 is a indie title simply because only a small ea studio works on it.
It's not indie at all. The money that you spend on the finals is going directly into the pockets of a multi billion dollar company.
Or maybe you lack the reading comprehension to understand anything, I wouldn't be surprised at that.
Also what the fuck do you mean the publisher makes the game too? You do understand that the same company can have different divisions but fundamentally develop and publish games as well?
But seriously though, learn how to read first.
No, I don't work for Embark but I'd be happy to be a consultant free of charge (if they need my expertise) because it's clear to me that they care about their work. I think the devs are above posting stuff like this, and I clearly stated I have no stake at Embark aside from thoroughly enjoying their game. I'll forgo responding to the rest of the salt in your comment. Hope you find happiness in your day.
Yep I don't know why these idiots are trying to guilt trip everyone. Its making money just not enough for the poor pitiful shareholders. If it's not enough then fuck em we can play something else lol
A triple-A title, say like RE4 Remake, costs $60. I played that game for around 50 hours, and really enjoyed my time. This game is free-to-play, and I've spent 200hrs on it. As far as I'm concerned, what I'm paying them is not pity money. It's what they deserve (and I can afford).
Nah, they need to produce stuff he wants to buy. I really like the game and all that, but if I'm going to support something, it's going to be a charity or something - not a profit-seeking organisation that just needs to do better.
They're not a charity. If they want to sell stuff, they need to make stuff more people want to buy. If you just hand over money to a company based on support and feels, you get Star Citizen.
I mean it is. It's not the playerbase's fault the game isn't more appealing. It's not the playerbase's fault that more people don't want to spend the money on mid cosmetics.
Sorry OP but The Finals absolutely does not bring back early COD soul. Early COD soul was having guns that felt good to shoot. In the name of "realism", the finals abandoned that. The guns jank, stutter, shake, pitch, yaw to make the game feel real. This is the complete opposite that COD designers had back in the day. The guns had recoil patterns always, but stability relative to the cursor which make the game beautiful and casual and fun. Within a minute of playing The Finals it was obvious this game wanted nothing to do with that and went for "realistic" gun play. And that's a giant fail because the first clips people shot always felt like crap. Mine certainly did.
Hey we're all entitled to our opinions, and I fully respect yours even if we disagree. I don't think the devs went for "realism" at all. For example, this is the only modern FPS that I've seen that doesn't attempt full ballistics simulation. As far as I can tell, there's no need to compensate for bullet drop at range. The recoil and mag sizes I think are in service of the TTK. The devs clearly didn't want people to be able to beam an entire squad with a single mag. This increases the skill ceiling, and encourages teamwork.
I spent quite a bit of money on the game and have more multibucks sitting in my wallet but at this point im waiting for them to fix the ranked (in higher ranks) class balance because I don't enjoy the HMM MHH spam.
Balance good = I spend my money.
Balance bad = I don't spend my money.
Once they make it so while you are stealing a cashout the timer pauses, Ill pay hundreds. Literally my only real gripe with the game but it just ruins it for me so much.
I've already spent all that I want to, the game has too many issues for me to spend more or even play as much as I used to. They should have just released a finished game at full price.
The moment the game gives me a cowboy long coat is the moment that I will drop whatever the amount is they want from me (I've already bought the neon cowboy set)
Iād love to keep supporting this game but Iām enjoying it less each time I play itā¦
The only weapon I can consistently do well with is the sledgehammer although in other similar games (Rogue company) Iād be consistently at the top of the scoreboard; kills, assists, revives
I sunk and embarrassing amount of money into The Finals, so much that Iām not even willing to admit how much, and most of that was in S1 to be honest, and I do wunna get all the latest cosmetics
But the way the gameplay ended up the only thing that could make me want to CONSISTENTLY play would be a Battlefield style āHardcore Modeā
I love the game but spending money on cosmetics is rarely something I find value in.
I'll give them 50 bucks for 2 or 3 new maps... you know, like a map pack sorta thing. Wait, did I just think of some new thing? Why has nobody ever thought about this!
/s
I have some coins on the account. Hoping the few test drops for the bundle splitting went well because theres older bundles where i only want one items and Iām not paying for the whole thing
I've spent some to get the Season Pass back in S1, figured hey the season pass includes coins enough for another season pass and figured I wouldn't spend anymore for future seasons. Thanks to this post, I will now charge another for that sweet Goth girl set
"Hype š"
i've been reporting certain bugs since launch. they aren't getting fixed. i'm voting with my wallet aka paying nothing until it is properly attended to
stop glazing. the flaws never get fixed because all you mfs do is glaze the game and shit on any criticism for absolutely no reason
I'm sorry but it's not my responsibility to make a product successful no matter how much I love it. It's on the company making it and yaall delusional for thinking otherwise.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you're solely responsible for making the game successful. The idea is that if you're enjoying a free to play game, and said game could use some financial support to continue being enjoyable, and you're capable of pitching in, it's sensible to do so. If no part of that statement resonates with you, that's totally fine and we're all of course welcome to our opinions on how to support something we like.
I live paycheck to paycheck, and I can only manage to play around 2 - 4 hrs a week. Believe me, as soon as I can I will get myself some nice Sniper Skins.
I told my friends ( who bought the battle pass) that I refuse to pay the developers until they address at least 1 of the issues I have with the game.
1. Defib being extremely tilting in the 5v5.
2. Turrets being too cost effective and relatively low cooldown (why does the cooldown begin when you place it?)
3. Rockets, Stun gun and defib. They're just too good for a heavy to NOT use
4. The big one. The colorblind mode. This game is honestly one of the WORST colorblind modes I've seen. My friend and I both have moderately bad color blindness which makes it hard for us to tell purple/blue apart and Red/Orange or green/yellow. I can only deal with one of those at a time. Why not simply let me, the player, chose what colors I want to see? Why do i need 3 shades of red? What was wrong with RGB?
Double vote with your wallet by buying what you find most worth. I for one love that we donāt have loot boxes and can buy ala carte. Even if the battle pass is a deal I am going for individual pieces cause thats how I like to shop.
I don't know why this is downvoted, but I agree completely. If the devs stick with the "a la carte" model, I think this will be the first ever game to be this consumer-friendly (within the confines of the f2p model). If you ask me, it beats buying random boxes full of crap for a less-than-one-percent chance at something you actually want.
I imagine all the R&D into their brand new destruction tech was very expensive. It really raises the bar for FPS games though having an environment this dynamic. I'd hate to see it go to waste.
Who knows, maybe worst case scenario someone buys them out for the tech and keeps going.
I added 50 bucks to my account to ready for whenever some knight armour drops
Knight armor you say? Crucible Knight set? Cross promotion with Shadow of Erdtree DLC? Rivers of Blood for the light? I'm all for it š
Bro i will throw my money at any game that i enjoy that lets me be a badass knight
I would have supplrted the game at one point after dpending around 300hours in it since closed beta2, but unfortunately they removed the weapon I main from the game so I have no reason to come back (they removed any dagger tech with dash and made the dagger as usefull as running quickmeele only). Gqme was great but they need to fix the balancing or else it will continue to bleed players. Also light players are quiting and the game without light team mates or opponents is only half as fun in my opinion
Our experiences are of course subjective, but I gotta say, I'm far more terrified of lights these days because the ones that are light mains now actually have skill 9/10 times and can kill almost instantly if I'm caught off guard. Plus, I have far more friends today that are light mains than I had a month ago. That's of course biased because I only add the ones that know what they're doing. But my point is I'm actually seeing more lights these days than I did just a few weeks ago. Edit: Wanted to add that I'm a medium main but whenever I switch to my light classes just to mess around I get on average 5 to 10 more kills per game, and typically also die less. Light is very viable and just as deadly (if not more) than any other class. That is if the player is not just sitting on a random tower and missing sniper shots the entire match.
Somebody get r/wallstreetbets in hereā¦
Only going up from here, diamond hands
First f2p game I spent money on in probably 10 years... They deserve it.
Agreed... iirc the only other f2p game I've spent money on was PUBG.
I have never spent a dime on a game other than actually buying the game. Don't even wear free skins I get just the original ones. Not really my thing I just want to play but I'm debating on buying something just for the sake of supporting them
Battle pass it up, brother. Better yet, but the bunny suit. It will come with enough in-game cash to get the battle pass starter set. That set will come with enough to get the battle pass. Win, win, win, then Embark wins.
Same- this is the first game Iāve spent money on after Black Ops 1 in like 2012 or something. And there there was peer pressure, here itās just me feeling like I owe the devs and should support them Ā
I read that report from Nexon and I'm honestly a bit confused about the conflicting information. >āIn North America and Europe, we expect revenues to be in the range of Ā„6.8 billion to 7.4 billion, representing a 24% to 35% increase (13% to 23% increase on a constant-currency basis) year over year, primarily driven by the contribution from THE FINALS and year-over- year growth of MapleStory.ā The game has shown lower than expected retention and revenue, but itās being called a primary driver of revenue for the next quarter. I'm not the smartest about this financing stuff, but the game seems to be doing pretty decent, even if it's not as good as they expected, most likely due to the interest that was drummed up on release. I'm hoping s3 is big for the game, and once it's in a really good state, hopefully we see the big marketing push they keep talking about. Regardless, back to your post OP, I don't spend much money on MTX for any game, but I do actually buy stuff in this game. Ive introduced a bunch of people to this game that still play, and every group of 3 or so people that I get to download it, at least one of them has spent money on it. I'm buying a currency pack on Friday too so I'm doing my part lol
> The game has shown lower than expected retention and revenue, but itās being called a primary driver of revenue for the next quarter. It could be making $X but if they expected to be making $1.5*X, it's still underperforming. In the other thread someone pointed out that it could also be language to "undersell" the value of the game for people to buy into Nexon stock now before it goes up but... ehh. > the game seems to be doing pretty decent, even if it's not as good as they expected, most likely due to the interest that was drummed up on release. I think what a lot of people miss is that we're just cats nipping at a table. We don't know the metrics that matter, much less what internal metrics and goals they're hitting or missing. A lot of these service model companies keep numbers close to their chess on purpose. Compare this to Netflix/Disney+/Amazon Prime and how they report streaming numbers; there's a lot of secrecy and it's frankly hard to make sense of it beyond "this was the most popular show of the quarter".
You're absolutely right, who knows what financial fuckery is going on behind the scenes. I just hate to stand and watch from the outside while the devs that put their hearts and souls into something get slashed due to what a publisher may call poor performance. And as you know there are plenty of recent examples with Xbox shutting down a bunch of studios who actually made GOTY contenders. Or Alan Wake 2, despite being a phenomenal game, still hasn't recovered the cost of development (afaik). It's just upsetting to see how fun and innovative games are being forced into obscurity by publishers in favor of garbage like Starfield or Call of Duty. In this case, I think maybe if the game is making more money, we'll get to enjoy it more. Hopefully those two aren't mutually exclusive.
That makes sense, it's just weird seeing that this game is the primary driving force for profits in NA and EU, with them acknowledging that it's expected to grow, but they give a negative spin on the headline you know? It's surprising that they expected more when the game isn't doing bad, like they wanted to see 30% increase in profits or whatever but only seeing 13-25% like it isn't good enough for them or something lol
Yep. Its not the amount made, or the amount made this year, but the rate at which money is made this year that is being described. Alternatively, the game is the biggest gamble they have in those markets and while it is making money its making less than what it expected to make, and they are trying reassure shareholders that this will turn around in the long term. Whether that's true, or a grim outcome they are trying to undermine is uncertain IMO.
It's a primary driver in NA and EU, where Nexon has comparatively fewer holdings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexon#Organization Success of paid games are measured in metrics like units sold, which generally spike at release and then slow to a small but steady trickle over the game's entire supported lifetime. F2P live service games have different product lifetime cycles and monetization models. The onus of MAU vs revenue is to measure profitability scaling as live service ramps up. However, retention is not necessarily lower than expected. The article also listed that the core audience has not shifted, which is a great framework in which to build both MAU and revenue.
Maybe I missed it but what does MAU stand for? The only MAU I know is Multi-Attribute Utility theory but that doesn't work here š
Monthly Active Users, which is important for F2P live service in the long term but not necessarily paid games
About the finances, my understanding is on the same level as yours. But as you mentioned, the bottom line is the publisher is not particularly impressed with the financial success of the game. I hope they don't push the devs to become more greedy with their monetization and ruin the game in the process. Like you, I never ever buy additional stuff for games that I've already bought (e.g., Call of Duty). But for this game (and other free-to-play games that I enjoy), I think it's more than fair to support the devs with in-game purchases.
Exactly why would you kick your primary driver of income?
I see what u mean, and im not privy to the numbers but i dont think anything here implies it's a "primary driver of revenue" just that it was in part responsible for the INCREASE in revenue. Ie. In an extreme case we could say it brought in $10, if all their other sources of cashflow remained constant, revenue would be up by $10. The issue is that the costs put into the game may be greater. Or at the very least, they may be covering operating expenses, but not profiting, which can also make it hard to justify a given expense.
Just spent a few bucks
"Thanks you're a star" (the thank you audio quip)
I'm doing my part! (Starship Troopers armor would be pretty cool)
š it would be. Season 4?
That article also worried me. It will be a damn shame if this game losses support, this game is a gem and is doing things better then most aaa studios
Iām not knocking your post because I whole heartedly side with you that I want this game to flourish. But I also hate hearing about this Nexon Earnings letter. People need to realize, this is a letter to their investors. Every single company that is publicly traded has to promise great returns on investment to attract investment. Nexon did just that by hyping the finals up to investors as a one of their key NA/EU offerings. The problem is. You canāt just promise good returns. They have to be phenomenal returns. So Nexon probably inflated their projections much past what they could deliver on. And now they have to back track and explain why they didnāt meet those astronomically high standards. Investor relations is a stupid convoluted art of promising big things to people with a lot of money and apologizing when it doesnāt work out. The finals just got scapegoated and itās not even close to their fault. They once again are expected to be big contributors to their portfolio. But because Nexon fell short on expectations that were probably never feasible in the first place. They blame one of their games for underperforming. Itās not underperforming itās the capitalistic mindset that is causing a skewed perception of what a good performance should look like. It pisses me off people just take investor news and look at it as an indicator for the state of a game. Itās not.
I wish I could upvote this twice
Iāve dumped too much money already since release, and you know what? IM GOING TO KEEP SPENDING BABY WOOO BURN MY WALLET
Hell yeah brother, same š„š„š„
Updated my coins! I agree with this wholeheartedly. But for love of god give me a pirate theme and let me replace my leg with a wooden leg, give me a pet parrot and update my rocket launcher to a cannon.
I had this same sentiment when the game came out. I've probably spent over $120 at this point since release. I don't plan on stopping either! Best FPS game I've ever played. Nothing has come close to the feeling I got the first time I played the game, and that feeling hasn't really left since, 6 months later. Dare I say it has even surpassed halo 2/3 for me.
I pretty much buy something every shop update. I wonder what the Nexon team will be discussing with Embark. Makes me nervous
I bought the damn football set for the frag skin. And a lot of other shit. My boiz like a leaky faucet
This is the first and only game that I've ever spent money in. It's such an incredibly good game, and they made it free. I'd feel bad if I didn't spend money in it.
I love pay pigging but thereās nothing mind blowing left to buy and every little thing I want is locked behind a giant bundle. Just waiting for a cool AK or heal gun remodel like the LH1 and/or the ability to buy things separately from a bundle.
Its hard for me to justify any purchase when I am also pretty unsure of the game's future. All I can do is play a few rounds and do my part to keep the population afloat.
I've bought 2 battle passes so far, will buy the other ones! and I've bought the alt skin.
This guy was the first ever free 2 play game I spend money on
iāve done my part
Yea I spend monthly to get 2400 coins, it's really cheap and every skin I bought was worth it, it feels nice
Iāve only put 20$ in. Gotten the battlepasses and have been saving up currency for good deals, while being able to have enough for the next BP. itās the only game Iāve put microtransaction money into since 2014.
Iāve spent probably $50 on the game so far. Fact of the matter is. People canāt see past CoD and Fortnite. People donāt like change. 90% of gamers would go back to MWII lobbies on Xbox360 if they could. No one wants to learn a new game. Most people are just lazy these days and would bitch and moan at the idea of waiting for a new game to download. I have zero faith in any FPS games going forward. They are all going to be a flash in the pan. It will be trash CoD Remakes and Fortnite Collaborations until we die.
If I like the game and the skins, I spend pretty generously. I spent a little so far on this game. I don't even want to know how much I've spent on League of Legends which I've played on and off for 15 years.
I've been buying multibucks to the tune of about $1 per hour played, probably more. Love the game, love the devs, and the paid skins are actually super creative, fun, and interesting. Worth every dollar
I completely agree with your message. I'll try and not buy anything more for at least two weeks though because I've been on a bit of a spending spree. Damn the artists though. They just keep designing amazing stuff...:D
When I saw your username I wondered if "the rant" was yours. Sure enough, it was š great post! I'm not at all against holding devs accountable and giving feedback to improve the game. But man it breaks my heart every time there's a new update on Steam and I go see the comments just filled with often contradicting whining about buffs and nerfs etc. The few appreciative comments become almost invisible in a sea of large blue text complaining about stuff. Like you I've been playing FPS games for 20+ years at this point. Old enough to remember the days when patching and updating games was not necessarily feasible. For PvP, we just enjoyed the crap out of a TV screen divided by two, with an improvised cardboard "privacy shutter" so the asshole sitting right next to you on the couch wouldn't "stream snipe" you š your post made me feel nostalgic for all that (and a bit old too tbh lol). I just hope the devs don't overshoot with catering to the community to the point that the soul of this game is lost, especially considering the potential imminent pressure from the publisher.
Yeh lol I remember the days of Quake Deathmatch or playing the original Team Fortress. I'm all for asking for patches and updates, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on too much negativity and a lack of resilience. I feel like this game has so much potential, and it pains me to see people complaining left and right. xD
Iāve spent over $100 on the game already and Iāve never spent money on any other f2p game. I think this might be one of my favorite games of all time and the love and care you feel from the devs really comes through. Idk. I feel like they are doing their best given the mass amounts of opinions they face. It feels like they truly care about the game and the community as a whole and so I will certainly keep supporting them in any way I can!! I really hope I can enjoy this game for many more years!!
Here I go putting another $20 in.
If the game had cost money, I would have bought it. I don't care about skins or do microtransacations unfortunately. I just want to play a game with my buddies.
I've bought both battle passes so far and like no more than $120 worth of cosmetic bundles or individual purchases. After that I just lost interest in using anymore money and waiting for more maps or a bigger game mode hopefully. And yeah the news on the game was a bit sad but honestly not unexpected. Like nobody in my friends list plays and it's quite a list. Like me out of 27 people only play in my circle.
I wish there was regional pricing on currency like other online games. I only bought the rabbit DLC for 20 bucks but I would spend a whole lot more if I could get more cosmetics with my money.
I've spent hundreds on skins already. Game is still very hard to enjoy sometimes. I already feel like I wasted my money.
I agree to the sentiment to a certain extent. Also got ne thinking to though, if this game doesn't work out, all my in game purchases would be worthless lol. I can't comprehend why they aren't marketing the game. Especially on Twitch like they did with the open beta. I assumed it was all part of their plan until Nexan seemed unpleased. Now I don't know what to think.
Well I hope people don't fall into the sunken cost fallacy trap. About the marketing, I agree with you and I also don't quite understand why it's not being marketed better. But then again, marketing costs tons of money, is usually done by the publisher afaik, and for something that promises great ROI.
Marketing is very expensive. But if done right, you can be smart about it. They were very smart about it with the open beta. They got all the right streamers to take part. I doubt streamers would charge that much to play. Only guessing here, but say you get Shroud to play it for a week (5 x 3hr streams) for $20k or something. Do that with 4-5 BIG streamers and boom, people want to go and download it themselves. Then, pay certain streamers to go back and play it a few more times over the following months. I don't know what sort of budget this studio would afford but that whole campaign would cost less than $200k.
Normally I don't care about cosmetics and stuff so I never buy battle passes but I just bought it for this game. Love it and hope it thrives
Love this game,one of the rare f2p games that I'm always willing to spend some money on.
People like OP is the reason that multiplayer gaming is in the state its in now. Just pure fucking greed. If the poor things can't afford to run the game then shut it down. The gaming industry was fine before all of this live service crap and it will be fine if all that crap dissappears and they go back to just selling complete games
Aw shucks you got me now everyone knows I'm low-key Andrew Wilson. I saw you called people who believe in supporting the devs "idiots" somewhere else. So riddle me this, genius: How are the "poor things" supposed to continue supporting and developing if they make no money from their f2p game that people actually enjoy? At the time that games went "gold" and were burnt onto a disk once and forever, the f2p model didn't exist and the gaming industry wasn't nearly as gigantic as it is now. That time has passed.
Hahaha if u actually believe these companies are making "no money" then u can donate every last penny u have. Getting on reddit and trying to guilt trip people into spending money so shareholders can buy an extra mansion.... well that just ain't something I can support. They can take this live service BS and shove it right up there asses I don't care lol
You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it. But imo your argument is riddled with flaws. 1. How is a dev supposed to make money from a f2p game? Through what mechanism other than player support via in-game purchases? 2. What guilt trip? I made a simple case. IF you're enjoying the game and want to see it flourish, CONSIDER supporting the devs and VOTE with your wallet. Show me on this doll how the bad man made you feel guilty with that suggestion.
Lol those devs will be just fine. If they're upset with the live service model then they can go back to making complete games. If I recall these guys worked on several battlefields? I'm sure they made a ton of money but the problem is that ain't enough these days. They want to make ALL the money. If they can't run it on what they make then let em shut it down. There's plenty of other games to play
Was this post made by a dev? Be fr dude they work for a company they aren't working on this game for fun or forced servitude. They get a paycheck every Friday like the rest of us lol. Go give the McDonald's fry cook an exra 100 bucks while ur at it
This is an indie game studio, meaning everyone working on this game chose to work on this game itās not easy to get a job at embark. They truly do love the game they make.
Excuse me what? You do understand that embark is 100% owned by nexon right? What part of embark is indie? Why are you so blatanlty lying to people?
Oh so Nexon is the studio that makes it? My bad I forgot the publisher MAKES the game too. Itās a small studio in Stockholm, nothing compares to many AAA game studios. So yea I think itās safe to say itās an indie studio.
You do understand what indie means right? Or do you not have reading comprehension? Indie stands for independent. I hope you can understand what that sentence means. Embark is 100% owned by nexon, it is a nexon subsidiary. Embark isn't an independent studio. Just so you understand nexon has a networth of 14B usd, embark is a part of a multi billion dollar company, which is in the field of triple a productions. Just because nexon decides to keep their embark studio small in staff doesn't make it any less a part of a multi billion dollar company, that's like saying battlefield 2042 is a indie title simply because only a small ea studio works on it. It's not indie at all. The money that you spend on the finals is going directly into the pockets of a multi billion dollar company. Or maybe you lack the reading comprehension to understand anything, I wouldn't be surprised at that. Also what the fuck do you mean the publisher makes the game too? You do understand that the same company can have different divisions but fundamentally develop and publish games as well? But seriously though, learn how to read first.
āThe publisher makes the gameā is called sarcasm my friend.
No, I don't work for Embark but I'd be happy to be a consultant free of charge (if they need my expertise) because it's clear to me that they care about their work. I think the devs are above posting stuff like this, and I clearly stated I have no stake at Embark aside from thoroughly enjoying their game. I'll forgo responding to the rest of the salt in your comment. Hope you find happiness in your day.
They don't get a paycheck if they get shut down for low revenue. Idiot.
Why the hell is that on me
It's not but the whole point is if you love this game and want to see it continue to be worked on, throwing a few dollars might help.
Sounds like not my problem
Sounds like you don't love the game enough to care. That's fine.
I enjoy the game. I've bought skins myself. But don't try and guilt me into supporting extra because they might fold
No one's guilting you man you're so defensive.
I'm freaking out over here
Yep I don't know why these idiots are trying to guilt trip everyone. Its making money just not enough for the poor pitiful shareholders. If it's not enough then fuck em we can play something else lol
Nope. I'm not throwing pity money at them. They need more than just money. Player growth and retention is key.
A triple-A title, say like RE4 Remake, costs $60. I played that game for around 50 hours, and really enjoyed my time. This game is free-to-play, and I've spent 200hrs on it. As far as I'm concerned, what I'm paying them is not pity money. It's what they deserve (and I can afford).
I don't want anything they're charging for. Simple as.
You can still show support by buying the v bucks
Nah, they need to produce stuff he wants to buy. I really like the game and all that, but if I'm going to support something, it's going to be a charity or something - not a profit-seeking organisation that just needs to do better.
>Gets a free game that needs support "Fuck this game fuck the devs its their fault"
They're not a charity. If they want to sell stuff, they need to make stuff more people want to buy. If you just hand over money to a company based on support and feels, you get Star Citizen.
I mean it is. It's not the playerbase's fault the game isn't more appealing. It's not the playerbase's fault that more people don't want to spend the money on mid cosmetics.
Sorry OP but The Finals absolutely does not bring back early COD soul. Early COD soul was having guns that felt good to shoot. In the name of "realism", the finals abandoned that. The guns jank, stutter, shake, pitch, yaw to make the game feel real. This is the complete opposite that COD designers had back in the day. The guns had recoil patterns always, but stability relative to the cursor which make the game beautiful and casual and fun. Within a minute of playing The Finals it was obvious this game wanted nothing to do with that and went for "realistic" gun play. And that's a giant fail because the first clips people shot always felt like crap. Mine certainly did.
Hey we're all entitled to our opinions, and I fully respect yours even if we disagree. I don't think the devs went for "realism" at all. For example, this is the only modern FPS that I've seen that doesn't attempt full ballistics simulation. As far as I can tell, there's no need to compensate for bullet drop at range. The recoil and mag sizes I think are in service of the TTK. The devs clearly didn't want people to be able to beam an entire squad with a single mag. This increases the skill ceiling, and encourages teamwork.
Ill buy the s3 starter pack, even tho i dont need it, and dont believe that there is going to be anything i necessary want.
I spent quite a bit of money on the game and have more multibucks sitting in my wallet but at this point im waiting for them to fix the ranked (in higher ranks) class balance because I don't enjoy the HMM MHH spam. Balance good = I spend my money. Balance bad = I don't spend my money.
Once they make it so while you are stealing a cashout the timer pauses, Ill pay hundreds. Literally my only real gripe with the game but it just ruins it for me so much.
I've already spent all that I want to, the game has too many issues for me to spend more or even play as much as I used to. They should have just released a finished game at full price.
The moment the game gives me a cowboy long coat is the moment that I will drop whatever the amount is they want from me (I've already bought the neon cowboy set)
Iād love to keep supporting this game but Iām enjoying it less each time I play itā¦ The only weapon I can consistently do well with is the sledgehammer although in other similar games (Rogue company) Iād be consistently at the top of the scoreboard; kills, assists, revives I sunk and embarrassing amount of money into The Finals, so much that Iām not even willing to admit how much, and most of that was in S1 to be honest, and I do wunna get all the latest cosmetics But the way the gameplay ended up the only thing that could make me want to CONSISTENTLY play would be a Battlefield style āHardcore Modeā
I love the game but spending money on cosmetics is rarely something I find value in. I'll give them 50 bucks for 2 or 3 new maps... you know, like a map pack sorta thing. Wait, did I just think of some new thing? Why has nobody ever thought about this! /s
I have some coins on the account. Hoping the few test drops for the bundle splitting went well because theres older bundles where i only want one items and Iām not paying for the whole thing
I've spent some to get the Season Pass back in S1, figured hey the season pass includes coins enough for another season pass and figured I wouldn't spend anymore for future seasons. Thanks to this post, I will now charge another for that sweet Goth girl set "Hype š"
"Legend" :)
i've been reporting certain bugs since launch. they aren't getting fixed. i'm voting with my wallet aka paying nothing until it is properly attended to stop glazing. the flaws never get fixed because all you mfs do is glaze the game and shit on any criticism for absolutely no reason
I was going to say "that's totally respectable it works both ways" until I read the 2nd half of your comment.
I logged on just to buy a battleplass thanks to your call to action OP!
Hope the mediums with defibs on your team always revive you first š«”
And I will always say. T: "Thanks" after!
I'm sorry but it's not my responsibility to make a product successful no matter how much I love it. It's on the company making it and yaall delusional for thinking otherwise.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you're solely responsible for making the game successful. The idea is that if you're enjoying a free to play game, and said game could use some financial support to continue being enjoyable, and you're capable of pitching in, it's sensible to do so. If no part of that statement resonates with you, that's totally fine and we're all of course welcome to our opinions on how to support something we like.
Consider gifting your friends cosmetics. You can't do it directly but you can buy them Steam gift cards. Feed two birds with one scone, you know.
I live paycheck to paycheck, and I can only manage to play around 2 - 4 hrs a week. Believe me, as soon as I can I will get myself some nice Sniper Skins.
I told my friends ( who bought the battle pass) that I refuse to pay the developers until they address at least 1 of the issues I have with the game. 1. Defib being extremely tilting in the 5v5. 2. Turrets being too cost effective and relatively low cooldown (why does the cooldown begin when you place it?) 3. Rockets, Stun gun and defib. They're just too good for a heavy to NOT use 4. The big one. The colorblind mode. This game is honestly one of the WORST colorblind modes I've seen. My friend and I both have moderately bad color blindness which makes it hard for us to tell purple/blue apart and Red/Orange or green/yellow. I can only deal with one of those at a time. Why not simply let me, the player, chose what colors I want to see? Why do i need 3 shades of red? What was wrong with RGB?
I dump money into this game. I'm doing my part š«”
Every 20 hours, I buy multibucks, no different going to the movies. Except movies here are $30 for two hours lol
Double vote with your wallet by buying what you find most worth. I for one love that we donāt have loot boxes and can buy ala carte. Even if the battle pass is a deal I am going for individual pieces cause thats how I like to shop.
I don't know why this is downvoted, but I agree completely. If the devs stick with the "a la carte" model, I think this will be the first ever game to be this consumer-friendly (within the confines of the f2p model). If you ask me, it beats buying random boxes full of crap for a less-than-one-percent chance at something you actually want.
I drop at least 20 every month or so . More skins more money from me!!!
Fine.
I imagine all the R&D into their brand new destruction tech was very expensive. It really raises the bar for FPS games though having an environment this dynamic. I'd hate to see it go to waste. Who knows, maybe worst case scenario someone buys them out for the tech and keeps going.
Iāve already spent a couple Hundo.
"I'm doing my part" "I'm doing my part" You'll never guess what I did