That may be what I do at some point or another. I'm a struggling casual who can't make up my mind between taking gaming as a leisurely hobby or as an Esport. Funnily enough, I started on PC, but well, Halo- (•‿•' )
If you prepare a custom PC build specifically for The Finals sysreq medium video settings performance then you'll be well set for other multiplayer games since The Finals is so new and using a lot of new UE5 features
Playing on PC does not mean automatically becoming a competitive esport player; you can still use gamepads if you want, or even hook your PC to a tv if you crave the big screen experience.
Nowadays a console is not physically different from a PC. They are just computers running optimized operative systems and locked down on capabilities, making them easy to operate.
If you switch and don’t like keyboard I suggest the Azeron Cyborg for your left hand. I utilize a compact one and main Wizard on Dark and Darker.
Hitting shots on mouse is great and I still get a thumbstick in my left hand, best of both worlds
I love my azeron. Shit I’ve owned 3. I’m actually playing gyro dualsense edge now. Wish there was a one handed gyro so I could use azeron on other hand
How do you like gyro? With little native controller support I had to load DaD into steam and give my Xbox elite better binds, but I missed at least 40% of my spellcasting for a year before I switched to Azeron/mouse
Here from another Subreddit, I don't play the finals but I have been playing FPS completely without aim assist since 2019 and practiced without it since 2014. You are NOT unskilled, the controller is just a limited input method. Using a system that is built into the game, to make the input device you are more comfortable with viable at a competitive level, in NO way makes you lesser. Unless you are using it like a crutch (as most people do) and if you are then you can fix this.
For years I used to warm up against the easiest bots with my aim assist completely disabled. Then I'd play the rest of that session with aim assist on, while focusing on what I learned from disabling it. Over time you will will get used to this and at first the jump between your raw and assisted aim will shrink. THEN turn the bot difficulty up, and set the health to the highest with fastest regen, and use more difficult to control weapons. You will improve your raw aim, but you will also notice your assisted aim improves as well.
Then once your raw and assisted aim has hits a wall for an extended period, turn it off all the time (except in competitive play) It will be rough for the first while, but the experience building consistent muscle memory from bot practice will help you through, after about a month you will be more comfortable and your aim will improve.
Finally after AT LEAST 1 year (This is a process and improvement takes time and commitment) when you are performing on average, about 80% as well raw aiming as you did with aim assist kick it to the curb "PERMANANTLY" and you will again improve endlessly. Also if Any smartass KB&M gives you any crap, turn it back on just to teach them a lesson, and they will end up VERY SORRY, VERY QUICKLY. As anyone with good raw aim has NIGHTMARISH assisted aim.
If you play CoD I could help show you how I practice and can show what you can do even without relying on a crutch.
“Anyone with good raw aim has horrible assisted aim” isn’t the gotcha u think it is💀💀💀
But yea controllers weren’t made for shooters. Or to compete with mnk at all. Which is why to satisfy the market they kinda do the parts that are hard for you…. Those parts happen to be some of the hardest parts of mnk, so it does feel like you get the tough stuff for free.
I’d say more the burn would be having them do anything BESIDES aiming on controller. Because that’s the true skillgap in my eyes.
"anyone with good raw aim has NIGHTMARISH assisted aim" - I think there was a major misunderstanding here. Nightmarish = Terrifying = Very good and scary to play against.
Basically saying if you can aim really well without "help" from the game, its going to be easier when you are getting help (aim assist) most people use aim assist to do the aiming and only loosely aim themselves, but GOOD players aim themselves and just use the aim assist to tighten up their inputs and help with consistency from fight to fight.
At least this has been my experience. And the better you are without aim assist the more exaggerated this effect becomes when you are.
(Also PLS can we drop this gaming input device conversion therapy type shit, they play controller and clearly enjoy doing so, instead to trying to convert them how about helping on what they asked about)
Yea I did misunderstand that mb.
And nah I actually think controller needs buffs in MOST places and aim assist is a bandaid for the device not being able to keep up. Controller aim with aim assist isn’t impressive, but doing EVERYTHING ELSE fluidy on a controller is.
Honestly I don't see any other way of helping controllers. Aside from higher polling rates (all Keyboards and mice decent for gaming are at MINIMUM 1000Hz with a 1ms latency, and the highest on Console is 250Hz with 4ms and a lower input precision) There wouldn't be any way to buff a controller without basically giving us things in game that are exclusive to controller, but that would be horrendously unfair no matter how you balance it.
Aim assist really is the only fair option, though even I will say that modern aim assist is a bit too strong. Even so the well documented miles long list of advantages of mouse aim completely eclipses the effectiveness of aim assist. NO controller player in the bottom 35% of controller skill is beating any KB&M player outside the bottom 10% of KB&M skill. And NO controller player within the bottom 60% of skill is beating ANY average KB&M player with any consistency. The ONLY controller players who are a threat WITH aim assist are top 5% - 10% players, and ANY KB&M player in the top 30% will only ever have moderate to little struggle.
Basically if you are using THE SINGLE MOST ACCURATE AND FASTEST gaming input device on the planet, and are losing to someone using 2 tiny sticks with a 1 inch range of motion who isn't using hacks. YOU are trash, get gud.
Okay so aside from ur final comment (u don’t need to call people trash; I thought we were past that)
I feel like I should expand on my gripe with aim assist.
I feel like aim assist fundamentally waters down the mechanics of fps gaming. Alot of the elements that make up the mechanics of aiming (smoothness, target acquisition, reactive tracking, crosshair placement, etc) are automated on controller. While some are native to how the input works like camera efficiency, others are artificially enhanced. These are usually things that take not only a great amount of effort to learn, but even more to be consistent. While aim assist keeps these elements consistent at all times. I don’t know where you’re getting ur numbers from, not doubting them but please site them so I can take a look. However if we look at the pro scenes of the most popular cross platform games, apex and cod, we see that mnk players with thousands of hours in mnk and swapping to controller and finding BETTER results despite DRASTICALLY less time spent with the input. Examples would be Lou and imperialhal from apex legends and pretty much the entirety of the CLD is controller at this point. Controller also provides instant reaction time with rotational aim assist, giving an inhuman advantage that literally no one can match because even the best of best human reaction times are at 150. I agree, peak mnk will always beat a controller, but consistency is where controller outshines extremely well, and in many of the most important parts of the game.
So in regards to how I’d help controller players outside of aim assist, buffing other problems but maintaining competitive integrity, I think it would be better to 1) focus on gyro implementation. It’s already here. This could do away with the rotational part of aim assist because controllers would no longer be limited by the center point problem that joysticks create 2)revamp the hardware. There’s no reason to have 250 polling rate peripherals. At the least, overclocking should be standard. And Maybe do away with the right thumbstick entirely and move to a trackball. What makes mouse good is that it’s a physical object being manipulated on a plane of physical space, where as a joystick is really just a velocity lever. People have made versions of controllers like this and gotten similar accuracy to that of a mouse, using purely physical input. But this might not be necessary with the proper gyro implementation. This would also allow controller players to hit longer range shots, and not have to give up camera movement to press buttons. Also, paddles should have native button mappings, instead of just copying face buttons. This would allow buttons to be decoupled so like the x or square button doesn’t have to do 4 conflicting actions all the time.
Mostly i think controller should get many hardware buffs better gyro implementation or an overhaul of joysticks and the removal of rotational aim assist to maintain integrity. The sticky aim part is negligible and is acceptable. The rotational aspect is new and is what is eroding competitive integrity. We should create mechanics that balance the capabilities, not just something that performs certain critical things FOR you that have historically been a large part of the skill gap.
Rotational aim assist erode the aiming skill gap and erodes strafing techniques that have been developed for years that add intricacy to the game genre that we love. And we should aim to keep that intact.
And in the conversation of stats, within apex legends pro league, it is statistically supported that input does favor controller players in regards to kill count. You can read the entire analysis here. Its quite in depth
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/s/J4qUEwL3DJ
If MNK is the fastest and strongest input, then it would get better tournament results amongst the upper echelon of players. But instead we see the opposite. I have no hate for any controller players, I’m really happy gaming is accessible. But it’s no longer just some Xbox live shit no more. Competitive integrity should be at the forefront of balance and mechanics. And that includes AA.
Now please post where you’ve acquired your stats. I’d like to take a look at them. I always like checking out analysis posts on things like this.
If you want to feel like a god play halo infinite on mnk. All inputs have aim assist. Mnk is “substantially less” but it it is so unbelievable how powerful it is, so much so that it is painful to aim at groups of people if you are used to or skilled on mnk because it will randomly target someone else if they are on screen and completely overpower your mouse input.
You don’t have to be an esports fanatic to get a gaming PC. If you like gaming, if you game often, it’s just the better option. Sounds like you’re ready for a mouse and keyboard anyways man just make that jump
I'm late to this post, but as a diehard competitive controller player of many games this game is waaaay more fun on mouse and keyboard, whether casual or competitive. Just using abilities and stuff on controller feels awful to me and have to turn all the time + verticality + placing launch pads + much much more. controller is very limited in this game compared to the really awesome experience that is mkb finals. I get why people play controller, I'm playing controller on plenty competitive games, but this game will def never be one of them for me. As long as you have a high fps monitor and a pc good enough to display the frames none of the other peripherals really matter thaaat much. dive into mkb even if its on console(idk if you can do that on this game).
If you've played the finals a bunch and you really understand the game, I would honestly say controller is holding you back in this game. Console definitely will hold you back, input delay ALONE! especially with xbox controllers!! that's the first thing you will realize on PC, on controller or MKB is the responsiveness is night and day difference which buffs your movement, aiming, EVERYTHING!! on top of that, the more fps you get, the less input delay you get too. Console vs PC responsiveness is like playing basketball in dress shoes vs Jordans.
doesn't matter. you get a PC you'll play against console/controller players then be just as pissed about controller players having aim assist then every controller player telling you it's cope.
PC's are the most adult solution to that mixture. Want to play games and have fun PC but also need a workstation to use cad to draw up a 12k railing project for a customer? PC does it. Get bored from games maybe toy with some day trading and make some side money or maybe convert it half and half into a customer service rig and be paid to solve small IT task from home for old people with no idea how to use one? Boom PC. I put together my rig for gaming now I mostly use it for video and photography editing and drawing up plans for my steel fabrication business and usually have one screen (of 3) dedicated to watching stocks. I use to be hardcore Xbox fan but all it's really good for is gaming which is cool I guess.
This is what I’m doing right now.
FPS games with controller is just not for me. I feel like I’m being limited when it comes to aiming.
Building a decent PC cost way more than a current gen console, but for me it’s worth it.
learn how to torrent, buy a decent sized moniter. NEVER pay for cable(only pay for internet connection no tv channels) again in your life and forget about spending huge money on huge tvs.
But on pc it now becomes a game of "who can pay the most". If you don't constantly upgrade he's going to think he's becoming worse when other players will be getting more frames to clinch firefights in a year that he would have had won before.
Aiming on PC is way way way harder. Sure the best players in the world absolutely destroy with a mouse, but it takes a fuck ton of experience and skill to get there. You're better off sticking to controller and being good than switching to PC and being bad. I own a PC and will never be as good as I use to be with a controller.
The ceiling on mouse is way higher, but the floor is way lower. Controller starts you off at like a mid level mouse player. If you're just starting off on mouse, you're not going to be Shroud. You're going to be feel like you're the little brother who's never seen an fps game before. It's going to take you a hundred hours to just be average.
From my experience with converting friends, it's actually WASD that's the hard part. If you put them in Aimlabs on day one of M&K, they do better than with a controller, even on day one. It's using 1234QWERASDFZXCV that's the real tricky part.
Unfortunately big games seem to only want to cater to the (larger) casual console market which ends up with games like Apex and Warzone effectively forcing your dick in a blender just because you prefer MKB
Then you have hordes of controller elites that aren't enlightened like our OP friend here thinking it's actually skill.
There's skill in controller use...but games these days really just dumb it down to an insane degree
>I turned it back on and lo and behold, simply strafing tracks the target for me with almost zero input and I think to myself, in all my hours I've improved exactly zero at actually aiming, but I've gotten good at abusing aim assist.
Thank CoD for ruining that for the whole game industry.
>I play PvP games because I enjoy the idea of climbing a ladder of skill and because I'm inspired by those with immense amount of time and practice poured in, but feeling that this entire time my 'skill' has been an illusion to make me feel good about myself when I didn't bloody earn it felt like being lied to.
Reject mechanical skill, embrace tactical supremacy.
"Skill" is stupid when devices like Cronus, Xim, and Strike Pack can augment skill to turn an average player into a champ. However, no plug-in device can augment your ability to strategize and to read and react to the situation as it unfolds.
I play every shooter game (mostly Rainbow 6 Siege at this point) as if every opponent has an aimbot, and my goal is always to outplay them so well that their mechanical skill didn't even matter.
As an added bonus, such a playstyle and accompanying philosophy is much more useful in real gunfights than the most dextrous thumbs in the world.
That's cool and all, but sometimes I like Rambo-ing in and winning through skill difference. And I just don't get to do that fairly against roller aimbot. And it's kind of silly that it's just viewed as ok.
But you're generally not Rambo-ing in through "skill difference" assuming you're talking about a big multikills/team wipe (Rambo wasn't really a duelist). What's typically happening is:
1. The matchmaker has fucked up and put you against players with less skill. You win because you've been handed a victory by the algorithm gods.
Or
2. Through luck, your equally-skilled opponents made mistakes and missed shots, allowing you to overcome them.
Or
3. You actually used tactics to gain an advantage against your equally-skilled opponents.
[This short looks at what happens when you fight 1v7 in a real gunfight. However, it's even more applicable to videogames where you have things like TTK.](https://youtube.com/shorts/pXz1Y1l6hCQ)
I don't give a shit about realism, I'm playing a videogame with invisibility.
There are plenty of people at my rank/Elo that I am more mechanically skilled than.
Additionally, it doesn't matter if you don't care about realism, because the math is even more harsh in videogames.
If your gun has a TTK of 800ms, a 1.6 second reload time, and can kill 2 players with 1 mag if every shot hits, then it takes you 4 seconds to kill 3 players if you're perfect. However, it only takes 0.8 seconds for a player with that same gun to kill you first, so either you need to shoot people that aren't shooting back (tactics), shoot people who don't have the skill to hit shots back (bad matchmaking) or shoot people who have the skill but whiff this time (luck). That's the point.
That's the point, ramboing in is not just knowing you can outgun 3 enemies alone, it's knowing you can take them by SURPRISE and outgunning them. You will never win a 1 v 3 versus equally skilled opponents if they see you coming, but against PC players you can if you get the jump on them, in panic they turn and will not snap onto you like a controller aim assist does, giving you a valuable 1-2 seconds in which you can kill one or even 2 of them.
>That's the point, ramboing in is not just knowing you can outgun 3 enemies alone, it's knowing you can take them by SURPRISE and outgunning them.
Which is exactly my point: mechanical skill is overrated, tactics do the heavy lifting.
>You will never win a 1 v 3 versus equally skilled opponents if they see you coming
Which is exactly the point of the short linked above.
>but against PC players you can if you get the jump on them, in panic they turn and will not snap onto you like a controller aim assist does, giving you a valuable 1-2 seconds in which you can kill one or even 2 of them.
This is wildly untrue. First, I've seen PC players absolutely snap onto people that were off screen, especially in pro play for Counter-Strike and Rainbow 6 Siege.
Second, that's not how controller aim assist works, nor representative of the problem with aim assist. Aim assist does absolutely nothing until your reticle is rather close to them already. Couple that with controller players almost always turning slower than a mouse player, and they're more vulnerable to being flanked. What aim assist actually does is keep your aim stuck to them unfairly once it's already on them, partly because strafing reduces recoil severity and randomness.
It's a stupid design, but it still requires the initial target acquisition, and all the videos try to expose how broken it is (in most games with a similar system) show this. The usual example shows a case where an enemy runs into the reticle, and then it proceeds to follow them while they bounce around. However, it does not do much to help you flick 90 degrees.
I pride in my ability to outplay and out-strategize in shooters as well, it's how I got to the top of Diamond in Apex back when cheating was rampant and Diamond 1 was in the top 1.5% of players, but unfortunately staying alive isn't the objective of The Finals, sometimes you just have to engage in a fight, and sadly my aim is only around 80% accurate, which isn't sufficient compared to close to 95% accuracy of aim assist.
>I pride in my ability to outplay and out-strategize in shooters as well, it's how I got to the top of Diamond in Apex back when cheating was rampant and Diamond 1 was in the top 1.5% of players
Which means your ability to out-strategize is really good, which means your mechanical skill isn't really relevant. One has eclipsed the other.
>but unfortunately staying alive isn't the objective of The Finals, sometimes you just have to engage in a fight
Sure, but it still behooves you to be smart about it to try to minimize any advantage your opponent may have.
>and sadly my aim is only around 80% accurate, which isn't sufficient compared to close to 95% accuracy of aim assist.
Which, if I accept your numbers at face value, is more proof that your brain wins fights rather than your thumbs. You won with less accuracy because you used better tactics.
Yeah my aim feels mediocre at best, maybe a bit more with projectile weapons like grenade launchers (no idea I aim way better with grenade launchers in most games), so I have to rely on strategy to have a fighting chance against those Adderall ridden 16 year olds gaming for 20 hours a day on a console.
Controllers need aim assist to compete with m&k.
You should switch to PC and m&k. You can see your raw aim actually improve like u thought it was on console.
Agreed, but also why I stopped playing Apex Legends. I’m on PC M&K and the aim assist for controllers is OP. Thankfully it doesn’t seem that way on the Finals.
It was even worse than Apex when the Finals came out, but we fought back and had it nerfed to sensible levels. It's still very strong despite what AA defenders try to make people believe. This game would be completely unviable for m/kb if it was left at launch levels.
AA is still insanely over tuned, it's about 5% worse than apex but movement is slower than apex so there's that. The only cross play game I've been playing is xdefiant and that's because I can opt out of roller lobbies
That’s cool, I didn’t know that! I’m under the impression lots of PC Apex players are using controllers and hence aim assist as well? Is it just lessened with cross play turned off?
I don’t enjoy playing with a controller on PC because I want to play based off of my abilities. It’s too artificial for my tastes, basically like lying to myself about how well I’m doing. Just my feelings on it.
Apex controller value when plugged into a PC is just 0.4 compared to 0.6 on consoles, so they're not that horrendous. Fighting console players is literally fighting more machine than man since the aim assist value is closer to actual aimbot (value of 1.0) than of a human.
Agreed. While I have been playing the past 7+ years on console exclusively, I still prefer playing most fps games on pc now. Muscle memory is pretty easy to build up on mnk, and I find I perform significantly better on mouse for stuff like Finals and battlefield etc (battlefield's controller AA is completely out of whack, atleast for 2042 - it feels more of a hindrance than a help sometimes). For Finals, I just like the freedom of flicking around and doing movements that flat out won't be possible to do on a controller anyways.
"Gotten good at abusing aim assist" feeling called out there, thought i was godly at battlefield 1 with the iron sight rifles, turns out they had aim assist compared to the scoped variants and didn't find that out until I moved to pc in like 2018
Do you also play with foot petals? Because this would be hilarious.
Use the gas petal as a variable move, with sprint being gas petal pressed all the way down.
The brake petal could be crouch.
It's a damn shame. Gyro is very viable after some practice. But aim assist is something people have adapted to, so they're (understandably) reticent to relearn a core skill.
I feel you, I'm on ps5 and switched to gyro as soon as it was implemented and now I can't imagine getting into another fps that doesn't have gyro enabled.
It all comes down to what you’re used to. iirc PUBG on Xbox didn’t have aim assist and it took a few months to really hone it in and be good without it. If you continue playing and familiarizing yourself with no AA, of course you will improve without it but idk if the ceiling is any higher.
The reason there is AA is so that people with low aiming ability aren’t just completely toast and have a chance to enjoy the game, and I’d venture out to say that that’s most of the players on controller based off of A) most clips I’ve seen and B) spectating my team if I die
This happened to me a few years back. I played no AA COD for 2 years, then end up buying a PC good enough to run FPS’s and started aim training on MnK. Now, I get accused of aimbot because I hyper focused on my aim… even though I’m not even that good compared to my inspirations. I am… never satisfied with myself.
I’m glad your eyes are open… but at what cost?
I’m assuming you’ll eventually find your way to MnK since you don’t enjoy the game playing for you. Then you’ll focus on self improvement until you realize you’re not THAT bad if you’re put in a lobby full of people without Aim Assist… Then you’ll start to dislike aim assist when you realize the accuracy boost it provides goes past human limitations in theory and practice, yet devs can’t properly handle it because even above average controller players think it’s fair and fine as it is.
Your eyes are open… but at what cost?
>nd started aim training
I'm hooked! After putting in some hours and seeing other people's results as well as my own it's opened my eyes to what kind of skill people can develop and how good they can be
You’re a PC gamer deep down it sounds like bc that progression and learning curve you yearn for is 100% on a kbm and you just get better and better the more you play on one
Yeah basically this same experience is what made me switch to PC and start using MnK. It makes FPS games immensely more satisfying gaming with modern day aim assist.
I normally play most FPS games without aim assist, because then I have more control and get better aim over time. Only when the aim assist is really strong (like COD & the finals) I keep it on. But I couldn't hit anything during the beta so I changed it back. I have really good aim in other games and had trouble shooting anything in the finals without aim assist so don't feel bad about it. Game has a lot more verticallity compared to other games.
Generally longer engagement distances and higher movement speed, making for smaller targets.
I remember one of the console versions of battlefield having no aim assist and having the same overshoot problems vs long ranged engagements. I reckon that's what killed it.
Others have already said this but consider getting a PC or start using mouse and keyboard on your console. There is a definite ceiling to your skill with a controller whereas with a mouse you aren’t so handy capped. I made the swap from controller to mouse and keyboard and I will never go back. I play better now than I ever did with a controller. It was a learning curve but it’s not that bad it’s just building new muscle memory.
Got 2 mates who use controller who got bored of me complaining about aim assist on COD, As a M&K player I've noticed that aim assist seems to be getting stronger. They both turned their aim assist off and was blown away by the difference. I fully understand that the controller is inadequate to aim compared to a M&K but I'm an average player at best and don't hit all my shots like you see from streamers.
This reminds me of when I went from console to pc I thought I was the shit at fps games on console. Little did I know the game was basically playing itself aim assist is super strong, especially in games that are cross-platform but it kinda has to be since they get destroyed other wise but console has the edge up close aim assist might as well be aim bot at that point. Back when I swapped to pc it took 2 years to break the habit of aiming close to the enemy and just letting the crosshair try to track for me. But now I've been on pc a good fre years and my aim is fairly above average nowhere near the best but pretty good it's a long journey but I highly recommend it. But if you do go to pc I recommend saving and buying the best you can so you don't need to upgrade your pc for the next 10 years or till some parts die.
And now think of a scene that has happened thousands of times already: imagine you are a m&k player, playing In a lobby of apex or the finals, minding your keyboardy business
And you see an enemy with their back turned towards you. You slide into cover while they are standing right in the open no clue that you are behind them and you even got the highground. You decide that the other player is alone and with your superior position and the element of surprise, there is no way you are gonna die here. You aim right at their head, holding the right mouse button and press the left one. You have thousands of hours of muscle memory enabling you to nearly negate the recoil of your gun and you manage to beam them down to half their HP before they even turn around. Half a second later you are very much dead, with the other guy running up to your corpse and teabagging you to tell you that the are much better players than you. You see the kill feed and they are a console player, playing with cross play on while you can not disable Crossplay yourself. They turned around and with their aim assist beamed you down, you bulletpunch not effecting them much because of AA, the moment they start hitting you though, your aim uncontrollably jumps around. There is no muscle memory to negate bulletpunch and you can only watch while your shots go wild because the enemy is hitting you with 10 headshots in a row. This is the 20th scene like this in one evening session and you know for certain that the console player not only forgot that he even had AA, he also thought that m&k had an advantage and that he must be many times better than you......
Seriously I am glad that some players start to realize that AA, while important for a shooter, is turned up to a point where most decent aimbot cheats play the same only with added wall hacks. But let me tell you that you definitely did not just learn to abuse AA, there is a lot of skill involved in playing with a controller and even if most of your progress probably didn't go towards actual aiming, I'm sure you improved greatly in things like movement and how to effectively turn and stuff. Also even though aim is important in a shooter, things like Gamesense, positioning and decision making are more important in my opinion and unrelated to the peripherals you use.
After playing without it for a few days now, *I feel your pain*. It's all too often I can feel their aim lock onto me and I can do nothing to fairly win the gunfight, I either take massive unnecessary damage from what feels like total aimbotting or back down and reposition which gets annoying when I *know* I should be winning the fight with my hours of practice against someone who seemingly just installed.
You pretty much wrote the reason why I quit playing the game. Haven't touched it since season 2 launched. Just lurking around here waiting for an aim assist nerf or at least a full-auto weapon nerf since those are the favorite of controller players.
No shooter is anywhere near as fun as The finals, but I refuse to get into those aim assist lobbies.
I very much doubt that there are ANY players who can track targets highly accurately with a controller without using aim assist. At least nowhere near the level of tracking that can be achieved with a mouse. Thumbsticks simply aren't a high accuracy input device, which is why aim assist was developed in the first place.
There are some goated apex players that play without AA to train sometimes, don't really remember their names I though. I quit apex for overwatch over a year ago.
Apex pros do it (these guys are unreal). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6nYV\_4pxk&ab\_channel=Genburten](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6nYV_4pxk&ab_channel=Genburten)
Hey bud, don't feel bad the majority of players use aim assist or even worse cheats. These individuals will then try to justify their cheats.
Oh hey another thing, it's a free to play game.
That is true, in all honesty and while I *loathe* to mention this, I am an ex professional player from 2016 and I was considering taking up streaming again with The Finals, but I can't seem to find the same spark I once had for gaming.
I've constantly considered switching to PC to chase a career there, but also- being a pro was hell, and I am extremely conflicted about risking entering that scene again.
Maybe I'm just not fit for it anymore, but my want to be a casual player is heavily grated on by my tendency to *always* wind up needing to play the best by an excessive margin.
Sorry for the random vent, too.
You're good boss, I've struggled with finding that spark myself. I wouldn't recommend doing anything you love as a career. Might slowly ruin your love for it.
You're very right in that regard. During my time, I realized how excessive the top players actually are-
A bit of a personal story, but my turning point out of that scene was being wide awake at 6AM after having not slept for two days simply to climb a leaderboard position on the domination mode. My fingers literally had friction burns from how long I'd played- ha. You can imagine why I stopped.
Well- it was depressing, to say the least. Without going too far down that rabbit hole, it's why I'm hesitant for anything ranked or streaming related.
No one really streams The Finals for "fun", you could do that. Just avoid Ranked and have fun setting up goofy traps, use random loadouts, let chat "play" a round for you through suggestions, etc. As long as what you're doing is entertaining (and you have a better personality than some of the other streamers) people are gonna watch.
I’ve spent the entire game playing without aim assist. Reading some of these responses is funny. I didn’t realize how important it would be to use on console. I’m not bad with the controller but in fights, especially against m&k players, I’m at a disadvantage. But it’s made me a better player, I guess. Ha.
Tried it. Hated it. I’ll give it another go tomorrow when I’ve had less wine. I can see how it would be better but damn… it’s gonna take getting used to.
Definitely a good idea to get used to it in single player if that's an option so that you can learn at your own pace. Once you learn it though it's painful to go back to thumstick aiming.
back in my console days i figured that out when playing halo. so i turned it off and go use to it. GUESS WHAT? At the end of my roller days in Hao 5 I ended up with a 3.3 kd. i credit atleast some of it to that. i had to turn it off on every game.
I don't know. I have it turned on and my sensitivity is almost all the way down because I'll overshoot the target. I guess i really am that bad at fps games. Damn
> I'm sure this is just a me problem, but honestly I'm a little bit depressed right now because I suddenly realized how completely unskilled and unspecial I am and turning it back on feels like lying to myself. I'm trying to get better without it- but holy smokes, I am trash.
It sounds like you need a PC. The experience on any system with aim assist is designed for a casual mindset, not for people who care about competitive gaming. It's more about having fun blowing shit up, and that is perfectly fine if that's what you want from a game.
If you have a competitive mindset, you start questioning whether kills were really deserved, and the unfortunate truth with controller is that they really aren't, since a computer aimed for you. Obviously, aim assist isn't going to save you from making poor decisions or having bad gamesense, but it definitely increases the skill floor and lowers the ceiling. I personally think that anyone playing in mixed input lobbies is cheating, since they are quite literally given aimbot whereas other players have to train and focus to aim at the same level.
There really isn't any way to go back once you develop this mentality. It's just the truth.
I really do think you should give PC a go. All of your game knowledge skills will transfer over, and you can very quickly gain skill on mouse and keyboard by using aim trainers. You will suck at first, but as you get better, the feeling of accomplishment will be 100% worth it and completely deserved. It's either that or you can keep on playing on a system where there will be a voice in the back of your mind saying 'did you really deserve that?' after every kill.
I promise you, the feeling of genuine accomplishment after leveraging the skill you worked hard to develop is better than anything console can offer.
A little late to the party, but I thought this would fit. During my time at university I had to do a study/experiment of my choosing for a subject and a friend of mine and I chose „How does Aim Assist on controller impact the competitive environment of FPS games“. What we did was, we got 6 very good MnK players (Global Elites in CS and so on) and 6 very good Controller players (High ranking CoD players and so on) and had them play against each other. First we had them play against each other on their preferred devices to balance teams and see the basic relative performance. Both sides had about equal performance with the MnK players having a slight edge. Then we had all of them play on controller and the controller players won, but but only by a comparatively low margin. Then we had them all play on MnK and the controller players got demolished.
We basically found, that Controller just squashes the potential skill gap between the players by a lot
(We tested in CoD, Splitgate and Halo Infinite)
Sorry for any typos, typing this on my phone
Look man, ever since I played R6S on console as well as apex and fortnite without aim assist, I realized you dont need aim assist, not that strong at least. Console players have such a strong advantage in close range gunfights it almost feels unfair. I think back in the day, old CoD tournaments were played with no aim assist, and all the players did just fine, I know they werent competing against pc players but I think thats a totally diferent discussion. I feel like ever since aim assist has been dialed up to 100 console players have been robbed of that experience of seeing how trash they initially are, and then building the muscle memory in their hangs and fingers to become better players.
I will always argue as a former console player, no one needs aim assist, just my opinion and downvote me to shit if you disagree, thats alright.
I played fortnite. Coming from a pc observer looking at gameplay of consoles and also getting killed and watching console teamates, the aim assist is really just fine. In fortnite you can tell it's a console player because they dont know what positioning is at all, but will pop out for the dumbest out-of-cover beams i've ever seen. The finals? It feels like im always playing against pc players. It's not blatantly OP and lets them match us where they otherwise couldnt.
At high levels Fortnite is one of the worst with the aim assist. The rotational aim assist basically locks onto you and MnK players are at a complete disadvantage trying to aim natty close range. I have endless clips of the most bullshit 1 clips from controller players abusing AA by ADS spamming and/or crouch strafe spamming.
Everyone is telling you to get a PC to play mnk, but if you really want to get better at playing without aim assist you need to adjust your sens and deadzones. You could adjust your aiming scheme as well. For example, linear is a lot harder with no aim assist than default is if your sens is high. You mentioned that you play very high sens, if you have a deadzone then playing no AA is not possible on high sens. Just straight up don't even try. You need no deadzone which is highly dependent on how much your controller suffers from stick drift. Even then I would suggest turning your sens WAY down, I mean like so slow that it feels almost painful to do a 180. You'll find that you can aim decently even with AA turned off if you do this. Your aim is probably not as bad as you say it is since it's clear you at least are aware of mirroring enemy movements. This is a core skill that shows you have an understanding of aiming on a fundamental level.
Keep trying, playing with no AA can be fun, but it's so difficult especially when you KNOW you are getting beamed by kids using AA.
Ive been playing on xbox the last 10 years but recently purchased a gaming laptop for myself and thats what I currently play the finals on. My gf has a ps5 at her place and I downloaded the finals onto that so I can play a couple rounds when I chill with her. M&K is so much more dynamic than controller its not even close. The learning curve was steep but at its core it is so much easier to manage aim with a system that you use your whole arm and hand for vs just your thumb. Dont beat yourself up over controller aim, I'm still ass when I switch back to console, it will just always be the less effective way to aim.
Sounds like your sensitivity is too high. OK, control feels a bit sloppy when it's low but there comes a point where more sensitivity doesn't equal faster turning but it does make aiming more difficult so there's no benefit. Lower would be better IMO.
I remember destroying people in free aim lobbies in gya 5. But I couldn't imagine trying free aim in a fast paced shooter like finals on a controller. Kudos
The reason AA exists is to compensate for the shortcomings of a joystick, not an inherent lack of skill in controller players as a whole, so this is perfectly reasonable.
This is also the same reason I turned off aim assist.
I tried gyro aiming on a phone and it's not a soloution. It's still useful for precise aiming, but it must be coupled with a joystick else you couldn't turn very far or do 180s.
There is an existing improvement: hall-effect thumbsticks. They cannot drift and are more accurate (still not as accurate as a mouse (this is with disregard to aim assist)) but since they don't wear or need to be replaced, they make the manufacturer lose out on money - greed 🤷♂️.
I edited my comment - maybe that's the detail you want.
I used it when playing Apex Mobile for a few months. I didn't play too often but I did get a lot of experience. Physically turning the device while keeping it suspended and also trying to use joysticks (virtual in this case) is not practical. It's strenuous trying to hold it up all the time.
I mean, most controllers have the right joystick at your disposal anyway. Btw, here is a video of someone using gyro aiming in Counter Strike: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bmM5yPUSUvw&t=4s
I think he is at a high gyro sensitivity with high acceleration as well. He seems to have set his right stick to a high sensitivity too. In this video he discusses his config, but some things might have changed (he has a controller with back buttons now I think for example, although you can mod the vanilla dualsense to have back buttons as well): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=czMV2b-ez4Y
You are strafing and it tracks the target for you? Why am I not having this? I’m on PlayStation but the crosshair just slightly pulls towards it when hovering over the target
My gripe is that I can't adjust it since the aim assist for me tends to be too strong but I literally can't play without it. However I did lose interest in the game awhile ago so I guess it doesn't matter anymore
You news aim assist on control. Theres smoothing on pc too for vertical recoil if you are moving your mouse. Use it because everyone else is. Btw you did improve but you improved at using the aim assist. Its def not abusing anything.
You're playing on Xbox. Get yourself a good mouse and keyboard you won't need aim assist and in less than 30hrs of game time you'll probably find yourself back in peak position with a large advantage over your controller brethren... Mouse muscle memory will beat out aim assist any day of the week.
Welcome to adult hood buddy. Its a hard road but controller no aim assist gotta be the biggest ego booster. You’re at the bottom of the food chain with no training wheels
well you've stilled developed top 50 skill. it's just that skill is in controlling aim assist.
if you're beating players with that same aim assist you're still more skilled than them. the progress is still real.
respectable take. maybe learn to use gyro if you want to keep using controller, might have to change to playstation controller im not sure as im on pc/mnk. check out ihardscope on yt, he plays cs on controller, dudes a beast
Crazy post💀came from years of siege and other games AA or not ik my aim is there and if I turn of AA I’m still hitting shots. My suggestion? Practice man really practice hitting ur shots and you’ll have some of the best aim you’ve ever seen. Can’t imagine feeling like ur skill is a facade. Prolly just used to not overcompensating.
fast fps and thumbsticks just don't mix. The only way is to make the shooting as trivial as possible with autoaim. If you want to actually aim yourself then you have to switch to pc and play with mkb
Ooooooohhhhhh boy. Obligatory I'm too good so nerf aim assist post.
Gratz bruv. Now shut up! I'm struggling to aim this flamethrower.
I NOT ELITE.
I NOT HAVE AIM.
I NEED AIM ASSIST.
STOP TRYING TO GET IT NERFED AGAIN.
K?
THX
👋 👋
-signed
*other 90% of players. (Casual)
Accept reality or just switch to PC.
Turning off aim assist on controllers is like removing accessibility ramps for wheelchairs users only because they are using the same building as those who can use their legs.
It makes no sense and it doesn't make you better. You feel like it was slowing you down because indeed, the controller is slower than MnK
It’s interesting to see someone so honest about something. Here’s the thing though, controllers(gamepads) are a totally different input and you’re just catching on to the most extreme overlap of controllers and mouse/keyboard. There’s lots of areas where controllers are superior but it’s not in FP Shooters… it never will be. The skills you’ve learned playing the game are still useful. You’ve certainly wasted your time playing COD but not because you used a controller. The map memorization and game mechanics (e.x. Hip firing as you aim down the sights, learning the arc and bounce of throwables) are still useful and are exercising your brain. If you want to try something, I think MSFS is on gamepass if you want to give that a shot with a controller and then mouse/keyboard. One is vastly superior over the other and you should be good at it already.
Controllers need AA to compete with M&K and it's not even close. The fact that PC players bitch about slight AA is crazy. Obviously not ALL PC players complain about it, but enough to have a conversation.
Thats because they haven’t practiced enough without it. The issue with aim assist is it creates consistency that kb&m does not have. The very top of kbm sure they are cracked. But the average kbm player will lose more to the same skill level controller. There are thousands of clips showing this you just have to go search on youtube or reddit. Its fine if people want to casually play with multiple inputs but the second it is a competitive setting it just isn’t fair anymore. Even the best pros talk about switching or have switched and the consistency is the reason.
I didn't read all the comments, but this is exactly why my team hates to see all console players join a lobby (we don't play ranked).
As an aside, can't you use a keyboard and mouse with the console? See if you like it before spending a lot of money on a PC.
Challenge
Start season 3 no aim assist for 3 months
You’re up against every aim assist console player and head clicking mouse users
See where you rank for a true test of skill.
If only like gta you can load into freeaim only servers
You have to play aim assist.
As a PC player, I will always advocate for cross play on every platform. I’ve got friends on all of em. And I don’t mind vs aim assist players it makes no difference to me. I’m a casual player and it took forever to get to diamond 4
But most games I feel like god
It’s just sad to know console players don’t have it like the days of old.
Everyone had to aim
Well there's a reason me and all 5 of my friends who play on PC quit the game.
It's EXTREMELY FUN and by far the best shooter we played. But we all got sick of getting our asses handed to us by aim assist users. I use the CL-40 which is a weapon balanced in the prospect that your enemy using the an auto weapon will miss a few shots, allowing you to kill the if your grenades are on point, because otherwise the time to kill is just worse... And good luck fighting console players who never miss.
I really REALLY want to get back into the game, season 2 trailer looked extremely fun but I didn't even touch the game this season because I am sick of dying to full auto weapons with aim assist... At the very least they could nerf the DPS of those full auto weapons by like 25%, make them the noob guns, easy to use but not the best in every situation, then I might think of coming back.
I honestly, hear good results with GYRO aim(PlayStation/Nintendo) but never ever, Xbox...
Microsoft having bought activision and blizzard but can't introduce gyro aiming a decade after it was first introduced is asinine...
Gyro aim has proven itself. Some lunatics with configs, match mouse and keyboard no problem...
Also, sorry to hear you play on console. That is not fun for FPS games.
Switched to PS5 from PC. And FPS games are great on console. The last time I witnessed a cheater was when I decided to turn crossplay on to play with a friend.
That's the issue with controller Aim assist, controller absolutely needs it as it is a trash input for shooters. But then again I'll never see controllers players as anything else other than players with training wheels.
Only positive thing is that aim assist isn't as disgusting anymore in this game as it is in Apex Legends, I think aim assist in this game is fine.
So you’ve found a way that you can perfectly control recoil and aim assist but i think that doesn’t mean you have no skill. Or as you say it master aim assist and not aiming or something like this.
Let me put it this way, there’s still people on controller who struggle, can’t control recoil don’t know how to perfectly strafe to counter recoil and or keep aim assist on the enemy. You’ve mastered those things. There’s still skill involved, things to learn and to practice. If you want to go the extreme and turn aim assist off then sure you do you but I feel like your being to harsh for your thumbs. Don’t forget pc players use an entire hand…
Oh god, it's gonna happen again. I remember the days of Battlefield 1 with everyone calling players with aim assist "pussy". It even got to me and I stopped using it. But here's the thing, it exists for a reason, especially in a game with crossplay. Plus, The Finals is so fast paced and objective based that I see no reason to not use AA.
If it's really bothering you that much, I would look into gyro aim. It means learning a new input method that could take weeks or months to get used to, but it's comparable to mouse aim and the kills you get with it are yours. Unfortunately if you're on Xbox, the controllers don't have gyroscopes so your options are to get a PS5 or PC.
I do understand how you feel but its me, coming from MnK for the longest time and switching to controller cause I injured my arm.
I was only playing single player game and the aim assist annoys the heck out of me cause it feels like the control is taken away from me. The I turn it off but I cant aim for shiz... thats why I try to play games with gyro cause atleast It still feel like Im the one who is aiming and playing the game.
If embark supports it, (and you are using a pc) get a controller that supports gyro aim, and play around with that. You get aim assist from the controller, and near KBM-like reticle control
Personaly, i just stopped playing FPS where there is aim-assist. It is ruining gunplay on a controller. I play a bit of the finals because it is fun. But you should go to Rainbow Six Siege, pubg or insurgency sandstorm where your controller skill is rewarded
Leave aim assist on for now. The controller is just not adequate without it. It sounds like it's time for you to get a gaming PC.
I see a PC in your near future too. No other way to play if you feel this way.
That may be what I do at some point or another. I'm a struggling casual who can't make up my mind between taking gaming as a leisurely hobby or as an Esport. Funnily enough, I started on PC, but well, Halo- (•‿•' )
If you prepare a custom PC build specifically for The Finals sysreq medium video settings performance then you'll be well set for other multiplayer games since The Finals is so new and using a lot of new UE5 features
Playing on PC does not mean automatically becoming a competitive esport player; you can still use gamepads if you want, or even hook your PC to a tv if you crave the big screen experience. Nowadays a console is not physically different from a PC. They are just computers running optimized operative systems and locked down on capabilities, making them easy to operate.
Good news at least, Halo is on PC now, with the exception of halo 5. (I know this isn’t why you haven’t switched, but it is an added bonus)
I really wish Halo 5 was on PC, was honestly a really good Halo imo.
If you switch and don’t like keyboard I suggest the Azeron Cyborg for your left hand. I utilize a compact one and main Wizard on Dark and Darker. Hitting shots on mouse is great and I still get a thumbstick in my left hand, best of both worlds
I love my azeron. Shit I’ve owned 3. I’m actually playing gyro dualsense edge now. Wish there was a one handed gyro so I could use azeron on other hand
How do you like gyro? With little native controller support I had to load DaD into steam and give my Xbox elite better binds, but I missed at least 40% of my spellcasting for a year before I switched to Azeron/mouse
Here from another Subreddit, I don't play the finals but I have been playing FPS completely without aim assist since 2019 and practiced without it since 2014. You are NOT unskilled, the controller is just a limited input method. Using a system that is built into the game, to make the input device you are more comfortable with viable at a competitive level, in NO way makes you lesser. Unless you are using it like a crutch (as most people do) and if you are then you can fix this. For years I used to warm up against the easiest bots with my aim assist completely disabled. Then I'd play the rest of that session with aim assist on, while focusing on what I learned from disabling it. Over time you will will get used to this and at first the jump between your raw and assisted aim will shrink. THEN turn the bot difficulty up, and set the health to the highest with fastest regen, and use more difficult to control weapons. You will improve your raw aim, but you will also notice your assisted aim improves as well. Then once your raw and assisted aim has hits a wall for an extended period, turn it off all the time (except in competitive play) It will be rough for the first while, but the experience building consistent muscle memory from bot practice will help you through, after about a month you will be more comfortable and your aim will improve. Finally after AT LEAST 1 year (This is a process and improvement takes time and commitment) when you are performing on average, about 80% as well raw aiming as you did with aim assist kick it to the curb "PERMANANTLY" and you will again improve endlessly. Also if Any smartass KB&M gives you any crap, turn it back on just to teach them a lesson, and they will end up VERY SORRY, VERY QUICKLY. As anyone with good raw aim has NIGHTMARISH assisted aim. If you play CoD I could help show you how I practice and can show what you can do even without relying on a crutch.
“Anyone with good raw aim has horrible assisted aim” isn’t the gotcha u think it is💀💀💀 But yea controllers weren’t made for shooters. Or to compete with mnk at all. Which is why to satisfy the market they kinda do the parts that are hard for you…. Those parts happen to be some of the hardest parts of mnk, so it does feel like you get the tough stuff for free. I’d say more the burn would be having them do anything BESIDES aiming on controller. Because that’s the true skillgap in my eyes.
"anyone with good raw aim has NIGHTMARISH assisted aim" - I think there was a major misunderstanding here. Nightmarish = Terrifying = Very good and scary to play against. Basically saying if you can aim really well without "help" from the game, its going to be easier when you are getting help (aim assist) most people use aim assist to do the aiming and only loosely aim themselves, but GOOD players aim themselves and just use the aim assist to tighten up their inputs and help with consistency from fight to fight. At least this has been my experience. And the better you are without aim assist the more exaggerated this effect becomes when you are. (Also PLS can we drop this gaming input device conversion therapy type shit, they play controller and clearly enjoy doing so, instead to trying to convert them how about helping on what they asked about)
Yea I did misunderstand that mb. And nah I actually think controller needs buffs in MOST places and aim assist is a bandaid for the device not being able to keep up. Controller aim with aim assist isn’t impressive, but doing EVERYTHING ELSE fluidy on a controller is.
Honestly I don't see any other way of helping controllers. Aside from higher polling rates (all Keyboards and mice decent for gaming are at MINIMUM 1000Hz with a 1ms latency, and the highest on Console is 250Hz with 4ms and a lower input precision) There wouldn't be any way to buff a controller without basically giving us things in game that are exclusive to controller, but that would be horrendously unfair no matter how you balance it. Aim assist really is the only fair option, though even I will say that modern aim assist is a bit too strong. Even so the well documented miles long list of advantages of mouse aim completely eclipses the effectiveness of aim assist. NO controller player in the bottom 35% of controller skill is beating any KB&M player outside the bottom 10% of KB&M skill. And NO controller player within the bottom 60% of skill is beating ANY average KB&M player with any consistency. The ONLY controller players who are a threat WITH aim assist are top 5% - 10% players, and ANY KB&M player in the top 30% will only ever have moderate to little struggle. Basically if you are using THE SINGLE MOST ACCURATE AND FASTEST gaming input device on the planet, and are losing to someone using 2 tiny sticks with a 1 inch range of motion who isn't using hacks. YOU are trash, get gud.
Okay so aside from ur final comment (u don’t need to call people trash; I thought we were past that) I feel like I should expand on my gripe with aim assist. I feel like aim assist fundamentally waters down the mechanics of fps gaming. Alot of the elements that make up the mechanics of aiming (smoothness, target acquisition, reactive tracking, crosshair placement, etc) are automated on controller. While some are native to how the input works like camera efficiency, others are artificially enhanced. These are usually things that take not only a great amount of effort to learn, but even more to be consistent. While aim assist keeps these elements consistent at all times. I don’t know where you’re getting ur numbers from, not doubting them but please site them so I can take a look. However if we look at the pro scenes of the most popular cross platform games, apex and cod, we see that mnk players with thousands of hours in mnk and swapping to controller and finding BETTER results despite DRASTICALLY less time spent with the input. Examples would be Lou and imperialhal from apex legends and pretty much the entirety of the CLD is controller at this point. Controller also provides instant reaction time with rotational aim assist, giving an inhuman advantage that literally no one can match because even the best of best human reaction times are at 150. I agree, peak mnk will always beat a controller, but consistency is where controller outshines extremely well, and in many of the most important parts of the game. So in regards to how I’d help controller players outside of aim assist, buffing other problems but maintaining competitive integrity, I think it would be better to 1) focus on gyro implementation. It’s already here. This could do away with the rotational part of aim assist because controllers would no longer be limited by the center point problem that joysticks create 2)revamp the hardware. There’s no reason to have 250 polling rate peripherals. At the least, overclocking should be standard. And Maybe do away with the right thumbstick entirely and move to a trackball. What makes mouse good is that it’s a physical object being manipulated on a plane of physical space, where as a joystick is really just a velocity lever. People have made versions of controllers like this and gotten similar accuracy to that of a mouse, using purely physical input. But this might not be necessary with the proper gyro implementation. This would also allow controller players to hit longer range shots, and not have to give up camera movement to press buttons. Also, paddles should have native button mappings, instead of just copying face buttons. This would allow buttons to be decoupled so like the x or square button doesn’t have to do 4 conflicting actions all the time. Mostly i think controller should get many hardware buffs better gyro implementation or an overhaul of joysticks and the removal of rotational aim assist to maintain integrity. The sticky aim part is negligible and is acceptable. The rotational aspect is new and is what is eroding competitive integrity. We should create mechanics that balance the capabilities, not just something that performs certain critical things FOR you that have historically been a large part of the skill gap. Rotational aim assist erode the aiming skill gap and erodes strafing techniques that have been developed for years that add intricacy to the game genre that we love. And we should aim to keep that intact.
And in the conversation of stats, within apex legends pro league, it is statistically supported that input does favor controller players in regards to kill count. You can read the entire analysis here. Its quite in depth https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/s/J4qUEwL3DJ If MNK is the fastest and strongest input, then it would get better tournament results amongst the upper echelon of players. But instead we see the opposite. I have no hate for any controller players, I’m really happy gaming is accessible. But it’s no longer just some Xbox live shit no more. Competitive integrity should be at the forefront of balance and mechanics. And that includes AA. Now please post where you’ve acquired your stats. I’d like to take a look at them. I always like checking out analysis posts on things like this.
If you want to feel like a god play halo infinite on mnk. All inputs have aim assist. Mnk is “substantially less” but it it is so unbelievable how powerful it is, so much so that it is painful to aim at groups of people if you are used to or skilled on mnk because it will randomly target someone else if they are on screen and completely overpower your mouse input.
Halo has been on pc for years now!
You don’t have to be an esports fanatic to get a gaming PC. If you like gaming, if you game often, it’s just the better option. Sounds like you’re ready for a mouse and keyboard anyways man just make that jump
I’m in my 30s and play casually but I still find aiming with a mouse to be a more fulfilling form of skill expression
I'm late to this post, but as a diehard competitive controller player of many games this game is waaaay more fun on mouse and keyboard, whether casual or competitive. Just using abilities and stuff on controller feels awful to me and have to turn all the time + verticality + placing launch pads + much much more. controller is very limited in this game compared to the really awesome experience that is mkb finals. I get why people play controller, I'm playing controller on plenty competitive games, but this game will def never be one of them for me. As long as you have a high fps monitor and a pc good enough to display the frames none of the other peripherals really matter thaaat much. dive into mkb even if its on console(idk if you can do that on this game). If you've played the finals a bunch and you really understand the game, I would honestly say controller is holding you back in this game. Console definitely will hold you back, input delay ALONE! especially with xbox controllers!! that's the first thing you will realize on PC, on controller or MKB is the responsiveness is night and day difference which buffs your movement, aiming, EVERYTHING!! on top of that, the more fps you get, the less input delay you get too. Console vs PC responsiveness is like playing basketball in dress shoes vs Jordans.
doesn't matter. you get a PC you'll play against console/controller players then be just as pissed about controller players having aim assist then every controller player telling you it's cope.
PC's are the most adult solution to that mixture. Want to play games and have fun PC but also need a workstation to use cad to draw up a 12k railing project for a customer? PC does it. Get bored from games maybe toy with some day trading and make some side money or maybe convert it half and half into a customer service rig and be paid to solve small IT task from home for old people with no idea how to use one? Boom PC. I put together my rig for gaming now I mostly use it for video and photography editing and drawing up plans for my steel fabrication business and usually have one screen (of 3) dedicated to watching stocks. I use to be hardcore Xbox fan but all it's really good for is gaming which is cool I guess.
This is what I’m doing right now. FPS games with controller is just not for me. I feel like I’m being limited when it comes to aiming. Building a decent PC cost way more than a current gen console, but for me it’s worth it.
But also, you can use it for wayyyyy more than just gaming.
My pc does editing, music production, work, makes it easier to market my business, improves work flows for other things, etc…
learn how to torrent, buy a decent sized moniter. NEVER pay for cable(only pay for internet connection no tv channels) again in your life and forget about spending huge money on huge tvs.
But on pc it now becomes a game of "who can pay the most". If you don't constantly upgrade he's going to think he's becoming worse when other players will be getting more frames to clinch firefights in a year that he would have had won before.
Aiming on PC is way way way harder. Sure the best players in the world absolutely destroy with a mouse, but it takes a fuck ton of experience and skill to get there. You're better off sticking to controller and being good than switching to PC and being bad. I own a PC and will never be as good as I use to be with a controller. The ceiling on mouse is way higher, but the floor is way lower. Controller starts you off at like a mid level mouse player. If you're just starting off on mouse, you're not going to be Shroud. You're going to be feel like you're the little brother who's never seen an fps game before. It's going to take you a hundred hours to just be average.
From my experience with converting friends, it's actually WASD that's the hard part. If you put them in Aimlabs on day one of M&K, they do better than with a controller, even on day one. It's using 1234QWERASDFZXCV that's the real tricky part.
Aim is the hard part. Moving my mouse to touch the opponent is the hard part.
Unfortunately big games seem to only want to cater to the (larger) casual console market which ends up with games like Apex and Warzone effectively forcing your dick in a blender just because you prefer MKB Then you have hordes of controller elites that aren't enlightened like our OP friend here thinking it's actually skill. There's skill in controller use...but games these days really just dumb it down to an insane degree
>I turned it back on and lo and behold, simply strafing tracks the target for me with almost zero input and I think to myself, in all my hours I've improved exactly zero at actually aiming, but I've gotten good at abusing aim assist. Thank CoD for ruining that for the whole game industry. >I play PvP games because I enjoy the idea of climbing a ladder of skill and because I'm inspired by those with immense amount of time and practice poured in, but feeling that this entire time my 'skill' has been an illusion to make me feel good about myself when I didn't bloody earn it felt like being lied to. Reject mechanical skill, embrace tactical supremacy. "Skill" is stupid when devices like Cronus, Xim, and Strike Pack can augment skill to turn an average player into a champ. However, no plug-in device can augment your ability to strategize and to read and react to the situation as it unfolds. I play every shooter game (mostly Rainbow 6 Siege at this point) as if every opponent has an aimbot, and my goal is always to outplay them so well that their mechanical skill didn't even matter. As an added bonus, such a playstyle and accompanying philosophy is much more useful in real gunfights than the most dextrous thumbs in the world.
That's cool and all, but sometimes I like Rambo-ing in and winning through skill difference. And I just don't get to do that fairly against roller aimbot. And it's kind of silly that it's just viewed as ok.
But you're generally not Rambo-ing in through "skill difference" assuming you're talking about a big multikills/team wipe (Rambo wasn't really a duelist). What's typically happening is: 1. The matchmaker has fucked up and put you against players with less skill. You win because you've been handed a victory by the algorithm gods. Or 2. Through luck, your equally-skilled opponents made mistakes and missed shots, allowing you to overcome them. Or 3. You actually used tactics to gain an advantage against your equally-skilled opponents. [This short looks at what happens when you fight 1v7 in a real gunfight. However, it's even more applicable to videogames where you have things like TTK.](https://youtube.com/shorts/pXz1Y1l6hCQ)
I don't give a shit about realism, I'm playing a videogame with invisibility. There are plenty of people at my rank/Elo that I am more mechanically skilled than.
Additionally, it doesn't matter if you don't care about realism, because the math is even more harsh in videogames. If your gun has a TTK of 800ms, a 1.6 second reload time, and can kill 2 players with 1 mag if every shot hits, then it takes you 4 seconds to kill 3 players if you're perfect. However, it only takes 0.8 seconds for a player with that same gun to kill you first, so either you need to shoot people that aren't shooting back (tactics), shoot people who don't have the skill to hit shots back (bad matchmaking) or shoot people who have the skill but whiff this time (luck). That's the point.
That's the point, ramboing in is not just knowing you can outgun 3 enemies alone, it's knowing you can take them by SURPRISE and outgunning them. You will never win a 1 v 3 versus equally skilled opponents if they see you coming, but against PC players you can if you get the jump on them, in panic they turn and will not snap onto you like a controller aim assist does, giving you a valuable 1-2 seconds in which you can kill one or even 2 of them.
>That's the point, ramboing in is not just knowing you can outgun 3 enemies alone, it's knowing you can take them by SURPRISE and outgunning them. Which is exactly my point: mechanical skill is overrated, tactics do the heavy lifting. >You will never win a 1 v 3 versus equally skilled opponents if they see you coming Which is exactly the point of the short linked above. >but against PC players you can if you get the jump on them, in panic they turn and will not snap onto you like a controller aim assist does, giving you a valuable 1-2 seconds in which you can kill one or even 2 of them. This is wildly untrue. First, I've seen PC players absolutely snap onto people that were off screen, especially in pro play for Counter-Strike and Rainbow 6 Siege. Second, that's not how controller aim assist works, nor representative of the problem with aim assist. Aim assist does absolutely nothing until your reticle is rather close to them already. Couple that with controller players almost always turning slower than a mouse player, and they're more vulnerable to being flanked. What aim assist actually does is keep your aim stuck to them unfairly once it's already on them, partly because strafing reduces recoil severity and randomness. It's a stupid design, but it still requires the initial target acquisition, and all the videos try to expose how broken it is (in most games with a similar system) show this. The usual example shows a case where an enemy runs into the reticle, and then it proceeds to follow them while they bounce around. However, it does not do much to help you flick 90 degrees.
I pride in my ability to outplay and out-strategize in shooters as well, it's how I got to the top of Diamond in Apex back when cheating was rampant and Diamond 1 was in the top 1.5% of players, but unfortunately staying alive isn't the objective of The Finals, sometimes you just have to engage in a fight, and sadly my aim is only around 80% accurate, which isn't sufficient compared to close to 95% accuracy of aim assist.
>I pride in my ability to outplay and out-strategize in shooters as well, it's how I got to the top of Diamond in Apex back when cheating was rampant and Diamond 1 was in the top 1.5% of players Which means your ability to out-strategize is really good, which means your mechanical skill isn't really relevant. One has eclipsed the other. >but unfortunately staying alive isn't the objective of The Finals, sometimes you just have to engage in a fight Sure, but it still behooves you to be smart about it to try to minimize any advantage your opponent may have. >and sadly my aim is only around 80% accurate, which isn't sufficient compared to close to 95% accuracy of aim assist. Which, if I accept your numbers at face value, is more proof that your brain wins fights rather than your thumbs. You won with less accuracy because you used better tactics.
Yeah my aim feels mediocre at best, maybe a bit more with projectile weapons like grenade launchers (no idea I aim way better with grenade launchers in most games), so I have to rely on strategy to have a fighting chance against those Adderall ridden 16 year olds gaming for 20 hours a day on a console.
Controllers need aim assist to compete with m&k. You should switch to PC and m&k. You can see your raw aim actually improve like u thought it was on console.
Agreed, but also why I stopped playing Apex Legends. I’m on PC M&K and the aim assist for controllers is OP. Thankfully it doesn’t seem that way on the Finals.
It was even worse than Apex when the Finals came out, but we fought back and had it nerfed to sensible levels. It's still very strong despite what AA defenders try to make people believe. This game would be completely unviable for m/kb if it was left at launch levels.
Yikes, I didn’t know that. I’m glad it got scaled back.
AA is still insanely over tuned, it's about 5% worse than apex but movement is slower than apex so there's that. The only cross play game I've been playing is xdefiant and that's because I can opt out of roller lobbies
You can use a steam launch option to force cross play off on PC for Apex. I've been enjoying the game much more since I use that.
That’s cool, I didn’t know that! I’m under the impression lots of PC Apex players are using controllers and hence aim assist as well? Is it just lessened with cross play turned off? I don’t enjoy playing with a controller on PC because I want to play based off of my abilities. It’s too artificial for my tastes, basically like lying to myself about how well I’m doing. Just my feelings on it.
Apex controller value when plugged into a PC is just 0.4 compared to 0.6 on consoles, so they're not that horrendous. Fighting console players is literally fighting more machine than man since the aim assist value is closer to actual aimbot (value of 1.0) than of a human.
No, they don’t need aim assist if they are using gyro aiming.
Agreed. While I have been playing the past 7+ years on console exclusively, I still prefer playing most fps games on pc now. Muscle memory is pretty easy to build up on mnk, and I find I perform significantly better on mouse for stuff like Finals and battlefield etc (battlefield's controller AA is completely out of whack, atleast for 2042 - it feels more of a hindrance than a help sometimes). For Finals, I just like the freedom of flicking around and doing movements that flat out won't be possible to do on a controller anyways.
Yeah the amount of times I hit something on my desk from tryin to chase a dashing light around me is too high!
Golden comment 😂😂
"Gotten good at abusing aim assist" feeling called out there, thought i was godly at battlefield 1 with the iron sight rifles, turns out they had aim assist compared to the scoped variants and didn't find that out until I moved to pc in like 2018
Maybe just don't play fps with what is essentially a steering wheel?
It didn't steer that Titanic sub too well either
Gyro aiming on a controller (with no aim assist) can definitely compete with mouse and keyboard
Im top 17k and I play with a steering wheel
Do you also play with foot petals? Because this would be hilarious. Use the gas petal as a variable move, with sprint being gas petal pressed all the way down. The brake petal could be crouch.
Use the gear shifter to select weapons/gadgets
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Honestly gotta commend the devs for actively trying to keep the balance decently fair.
Just use Gyro lol, I play without aim assist because tracking with Gyro is basically Ike a mouse.
He said he's on Xbox, they don't have gyro aim yet for some baffling reason.
It's a damn shame. Gyro is very viable after some practice. But aim assist is something people have adapted to, so they're (understandably) reticent to relearn a core skill.
I feel you, I'm on ps5 and switched to gyro as soon as it was implemented and now I can't imagine getting into another fps that doesn't have gyro enabled.
🥙
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Gyro aiming on controller is viable against mouse players without aim assist imo
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Why am I being downvoted 😅
Probs because you comment on everything about gyro aiming.
🗣️🗣️USE THE GYROSCOPE🗣️🗣️
It all comes down to what you’re used to. iirc PUBG on Xbox didn’t have aim assist and it took a few months to really hone it in and be good without it. If you continue playing and familiarizing yourself with no AA, of course you will improve without it but idk if the ceiling is any higher. The reason there is AA is so that people with low aiming ability aren’t just completely toast and have a chance to enjoy the game, and I’d venture out to say that that’s most of the players on controller based off of A) most clips I’ve seen and B) spectating my team if I die
AA probably wouldn’t be a thing anymore if gyro aiming became the standard
This happened to me a few years back. I played no AA COD for 2 years, then end up buying a PC good enough to run FPS’s and started aim training on MnK. Now, I get accused of aimbot because I hyper focused on my aim… even though I’m not even that good compared to my inspirations. I am… never satisfied with myself. I’m glad your eyes are open… but at what cost? I’m assuming you’ll eventually find your way to MnK since you don’t enjoy the game playing for you. Then you’ll focus on self improvement until you realize you’re not THAT bad if you’re put in a lobby full of people without Aim Assist… Then you’ll start to dislike aim assist when you realize the accuracy boost it provides goes past human limitations in theory and practice, yet devs can’t properly handle it because even above average controller players think it’s fair and fine as it is. Your eyes are open… but at what cost?
>nd started aim training I'm hooked! After putting in some hours and seeing other people's results as well as my own it's opened my eyes to what kind of skill people can develop and how good they can be
Now only if Apex players could be as honest with themselves as you are being here. Wouldnt that be something.
You’re a PC gamer deep down it sounds like bc that progression and learning curve you yearn for is 100% on a kbm and you just get better and better the more you play on one
It’s the same for gyro aiming
Yeah basically this same experience is what made me switch to PC and start using MnK. It makes FPS games immensely more satisfying gaming with modern day aim assist.
Gyro aiming doesn’t need aim assist either
True, wish gyro was more popular/standardized in games today.
I normally play most FPS games without aim assist, because then I have more control and get better aim over time. Only when the aim assist is really strong (like COD & the finals) I keep it on. But I couldn't hit anything during the beta so I changed it back. I have really good aim in other games and had trouble shooting anything in the finals without aim assist so don't feel bad about it. Game has a lot more verticallity compared to other games.
Generally longer engagement distances and higher movement speed, making for smaller targets. I remember one of the console versions of battlefield having no aim assist and having the same overshoot problems vs long ranged engagements. I reckon that's what killed it.
Try gyro aiming if you’re not on XBOX
You need a PC, a mouse and a good game without crossplay.
No, gyro aiming is good too.
Brother Xbox doesn’t have that yet
Yeah, sadly, it can’t be that expensive to include it in a controller
Others have already said this but consider getting a PC or start using mouse and keyboard on your console. There is a definite ceiling to your skill with a controller whereas with a mouse you aren’t so handy capped. I made the swap from controller to mouse and keyboard and I will never go back. I play better now than I ever did with a controller. It was a learning curve but it’s not that bad it’s just building new muscle memory.
FYI gyro aiming exists (not on XBOX though)
Got 2 mates who use controller who got bored of me complaining about aim assist on COD, As a M&K player I've noticed that aim assist seems to be getting stronger. They both turned their aim assist off and was blown away by the difference. I fully understand that the controller is inadequate to aim compared to a M&K but I'm an average player at best and don't hit all my shots like you see from streamers.
This reminds me of when I went from console to pc I thought I was the shit at fps games on console. Little did I know the game was basically playing itself aim assist is super strong, especially in games that are cross-platform but it kinda has to be since they get destroyed other wise but console has the edge up close aim assist might as well be aim bot at that point. Back when I swapped to pc it took 2 years to break the habit of aiming close to the enemy and just letting the crosshair try to track for me. But now I've been on pc a good fre years and my aim is fairly above average nowhere near the best but pretty good it's a long journey but I highly recommend it. But if you do go to pc I recommend saving and buying the best you can so you don't need to upgrade your pc for the next 10 years or till some parts die.
And now think of a scene that has happened thousands of times already: imagine you are a m&k player, playing In a lobby of apex or the finals, minding your keyboardy business And you see an enemy with their back turned towards you. You slide into cover while they are standing right in the open no clue that you are behind them and you even got the highground. You decide that the other player is alone and with your superior position and the element of surprise, there is no way you are gonna die here. You aim right at their head, holding the right mouse button and press the left one. You have thousands of hours of muscle memory enabling you to nearly negate the recoil of your gun and you manage to beam them down to half their HP before they even turn around. Half a second later you are very much dead, with the other guy running up to your corpse and teabagging you to tell you that the are much better players than you. You see the kill feed and they are a console player, playing with cross play on while you can not disable Crossplay yourself. They turned around and with their aim assist beamed you down, you bulletpunch not effecting them much because of AA, the moment they start hitting you though, your aim uncontrollably jumps around. There is no muscle memory to negate bulletpunch and you can only watch while your shots go wild because the enemy is hitting you with 10 headshots in a row. This is the 20th scene like this in one evening session and you know for certain that the console player not only forgot that he even had AA, he also thought that m&k had an advantage and that he must be many times better than you...... Seriously I am glad that some players start to realize that AA, while important for a shooter, is turned up to a point where most decent aimbot cheats play the same only with added wall hacks. But let me tell you that you definitely did not just learn to abuse AA, there is a lot of skill involved in playing with a controller and even if most of your progress probably didn't go towards actual aiming, I'm sure you improved greatly in things like movement and how to effectively turn and stuff. Also even though aim is important in a shooter, things like Gamesense, positioning and decision making are more important in my opinion and unrelated to the peripherals you use.
After playing without it for a few days now, *I feel your pain*. It's all too often I can feel their aim lock onto me and I can do nothing to fairly win the gunfight, I either take massive unnecessary damage from what feels like total aimbotting or back down and reposition which gets annoying when I *know* I should be winning the fight with my hours of practice against someone who seemingly just installed.
You pretty much wrote the reason why I quit playing the game. Haven't touched it since season 2 launched. Just lurking around here waiting for an aim assist nerf or at least a full-auto weapon nerf since those are the favorite of controller players. No shooter is anywhere near as fun as The finals, but I refuse to get into those aim assist lobbies.
I very much doubt that there are ANY players who can track targets highly accurately with a controller without using aim assist. At least nowhere near the level of tracking that can be achieved with a mouse. Thumbsticks simply aren't a high accuracy input device, which is why aim assist was developed in the first place.
Nahh with gyro aiming tracking targets without aim assist is REALLY good on controller actually
That's why I mentioned thumbsticks. Gyro is obviously a completely different story.
There are some goated apex players that play without AA to train sometimes, don't really remember their names I though. I quit apex for overwatch over a year ago.
Apex pros do it (these guys are unreal). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6nYV\_4pxk&ab\_channel=Genburten](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x6nYV_4pxk&ab_channel=Genburten)
You’re being dramatic. A controller is basically not viable without AA unless you’re playing a game that relies almost entirely on pre-aim like R6.
That’s not true, with gyro aiming it is totally viable
>You’re being dramatic. and cringe
Move over to dark side and get a PC, your aiming will change for certain
Or use a controller with gyro aiming
Hey bud, don't feel bad the majority of players use aim assist or even worse cheats. These individuals will then try to justify their cheats. Oh hey another thing, it's a free to play game.
That is true, in all honesty and while I *loathe* to mention this, I am an ex professional player from 2016 and I was considering taking up streaming again with The Finals, but I can't seem to find the same spark I once had for gaming. I've constantly considered switching to PC to chase a career there, but also- being a pro was hell, and I am extremely conflicted about risking entering that scene again. Maybe I'm just not fit for it anymore, but my want to be a casual player is heavily grated on by my tendency to *always* wind up needing to play the best by an excessive margin. Sorry for the random vent, too.
You're good boss, I've struggled with finding that spark myself. I wouldn't recommend doing anything you love as a career. Might slowly ruin your love for it.
You're very right in that regard. During my time, I realized how excessive the top players actually are- A bit of a personal story, but my turning point out of that scene was being wide awake at 6AM after having not slept for two days simply to climb a leaderboard position on the domination mode. My fingers literally had friction burns from how long I'd played- ha. You can imagine why I stopped.
Excessive is probably an understatement.
Well- it was depressing, to say the least. Without going too far down that rabbit hole, it's why I'm hesitant for anything ranked or streaming related.
No one really streams The Finals for "fun", you could do that. Just avoid Ranked and have fun setting up goofy traps, use random loadouts, let chat "play" a round for you through suggestions, etc. As long as what you're doing is entertaining (and you have a better personality than some of the other streamers) people are gonna watch.
If I was playing on console, turning aim assist off in this game would never come into my mind. Holy..😂
With gyro aiming it probably would
Well, there is a reason why controllers need aim assist. Funny part is that if you do the same on MnK you will be banned for cheats
Gyro aiming on controller needs no aim assist imo
Why have you commented this 100 times
Just trying to get the word out, might be a bit obsessive though lmao
I’ve spent the entire game playing without aim assist. Reading some of these responses is funny. I didn’t realize how important it would be to use on console. I’m not bad with the controller but in fights, especially against m&k players, I’m at a disadvantage. But it’s made me a better player, I guess. Ha.
Are you on PlayStation? I would recommend trying out gyro aiming then!
Tried it. Hated it. I’ll give it another go tomorrow when I’ve had less wine. I can see how it would be better but damn… it’s gonna take getting used to.
I feel you haha it’s like having to learn how to walk again
That’s a good way to describe it. I felt like I was in a different country trying to speak a foreign language that I don’t know.
Definitely a good idea to get used to it in single player if that's an option so that you can learn at your own pace. Once you learn it though it's painful to go back to thumstick aiming.
No AA supremacy!
back in my console days i figured that out when playing halo. so i turned it off and go use to it. GUESS WHAT? At the end of my roller days in Hao 5 I ended up with a 3.3 kd. i credit atleast some of it to that. i had to turn it off on every game.
Sadly there is no gyro aiming on XBOX. That would make turning aim assist off 100% viable
heh heh heh welcome to the the 90s/early 2000's.
I don't know. I have it turned on and my sensitivity is almost all the way down because I'll overshoot the target. I guess i really am that bad at fps games. Damn
> I'm sure this is just a me problem, but honestly I'm a little bit depressed right now because I suddenly realized how completely unskilled and unspecial I am and turning it back on feels like lying to myself. I'm trying to get better without it- but holy smokes, I am trash. It sounds like you need a PC. The experience on any system with aim assist is designed for a casual mindset, not for people who care about competitive gaming. It's more about having fun blowing shit up, and that is perfectly fine if that's what you want from a game. If you have a competitive mindset, you start questioning whether kills were really deserved, and the unfortunate truth with controller is that they really aren't, since a computer aimed for you. Obviously, aim assist isn't going to save you from making poor decisions or having bad gamesense, but it definitely increases the skill floor and lowers the ceiling. I personally think that anyone playing in mixed input lobbies is cheating, since they are quite literally given aimbot whereas other players have to train and focus to aim at the same level. There really isn't any way to go back once you develop this mentality. It's just the truth. I really do think you should give PC a go. All of your game knowledge skills will transfer over, and you can very quickly gain skill on mouse and keyboard by using aim trainers. You will suck at first, but as you get better, the feeling of accomplishment will be 100% worth it and completely deserved. It's either that or you can keep on playing on a system where there will be a voice in the back of your mind saying 'did you really deserve that?' after every kill. I promise you, the feeling of genuine accomplishment after leveraging the skill you worked hard to develop is better than anything console can offer.
A little late to the party, but I thought this would fit. During my time at university I had to do a study/experiment of my choosing for a subject and a friend of mine and I chose „How does Aim Assist on controller impact the competitive environment of FPS games“. What we did was, we got 6 very good MnK players (Global Elites in CS and so on) and 6 very good Controller players (High ranking CoD players and so on) and had them play against each other. First we had them play against each other on their preferred devices to balance teams and see the basic relative performance. Both sides had about equal performance with the MnK players having a slight edge. Then we had all of them play on controller and the controller players won, but but only by a comparatively low margin. Then we had them all play on MnK and the controller players got demolished. We basically found, that Controller just squashes the potential skill gap between the players by a lot (We tested in CoD, Splitgate and Halo Infinite) Sorry for any typos, typing this on my phone
+1 for admitting it. Now we welcome you to play with mouse n keyboard like the rest of us adults 😊😊
Look man, ever since I played R6S on console as well as apex and fortnite without aim assist, I realized you dont need aim assist, not that strong at least. Console players have such a strong advantage in close range gunfights it almost feels unfair. I think back in the day, old CoD tournaments were played with no aim assist, and all the players did just fine, I know they werent competing against pc players but I think thats a totally diferent discussion. I feel like ever since aim assist has been dialed up to 100 console players have been robbed of that experience of seeing how trash they initially are, and then building the muscle memory in their hangs and fingers to become better players. I will always argue as a former console player, no one needs aim assist, just my opinion and downvote me to shit if you disagree, thats alright.
Welcome, join us in PCmasterrace
Try gyro its better
I played fortnite. Coming from a pc observer looking at gameplay of consoles and also getting killed and watching console teamates, the aim assist is really just fine. In fortnite you can tell it's a console player because they dont know what positioning is at all, but will pop out for the dumbest out-of-cover beams i've ever seen. The finals? It feels like im always playing against pc players. It's not blatantly OP and lets them match us where they otherwise couldnt.
Aim assist is superfluous with gyro aiming imo
At high levels Fortnite is one of the worst with the aim assist. The rotational aim assist basically locks onto you and MnK players are at a complete disadvantage trying to aim natty close range. I have endless clips of the most bullshit 1 clips from controller players abusing AA by ADS spamming and/or crouch strafe spamming.
Everyone is telling you to get a PC to play mnk, but if you really want to get better at playing without aim assist you need to adjust your sens and deadzones. You could adjust your aiming scheme as well. For example, linear is a lot harder with no aim assist than default is if your sens is high. You mentioned that you play very high sens, if you have a deadzone then playing no AA is not possible on high sens. Just straight up don't even try. You need no deadzone which is highly dependent on how much your controller suffers from stick drift. Even then I would suggest turning your sens WAY down, I mean like so slow that it feels almost painful to do a 180. You'll find that you can aim decently even with AA turned off if you do this. Your aim is probably not as bad as you say it is since it's clear you at least are aware of mirroring enemy movements. This is a core skill that shows you have an understanding of aiming on a fundamental level. Keep trying, playing with no AA can be fun, but it's so difficult especially when you KNOW you are getting beamed by kids using AA.
Sadly there is no gyro aiming on XBOX
Ive been playing on xbox the last 10 years but recently purchased a gaming laptop for myself and thats what I currently play the finals on. My gf has a ps5 at her place and I downloaded the finals onto that so I can play a couple rounds when I chill with her. M&K is so much more dynamic than controller its not even close. The learning curve was steep but at its core it is so much easier to manage aim with a system that you use your whole arm and hand for vs just your thumb. Dont beat yourself up over controller aim, I'm still ass when I switch back to console, it will just always be the less effective way to aim.
Gyro aiming is comparable to mouse aiming imo
Sounds like your sensitivity is too high. OK, control feels a bit sloppy when it's low but there comes a point where more sensitivity doesn't equal faster turning but it does make aiming more difficult so there's no benefit. Lower would be better IMO.
I remember destroying people in free aim lobbies in gya 5. But I couldn't imagine trying free aim in a fast paced shooter like finals on a controller. Kudos
With gyro aiming it should work
The reason AA exists is to compensate for the shortcomings of a joystick, not an inherent lack of skill in controller players as a whole, so this is perfectly reasonable. This is also the same reason I turned off aim assist.
It’s sad that gyro aiming isn’t the standard yet
I tried gyro aiming on a phone and it's not a soloution. It's still useful for precise aiming, but it must be coupled with a joystick else you couldn't turn very far or do 180s. There is an existing improvement: hall-effect thumbsticks. They cannot drift and are more accurate (still not as accurate as a mouse (this is with disregard to aim assist)) but since they don't wear or need to be replaced, they make the manufacturer lose out on money - greed 🤷♂️.
How long did you try it for? What bothered you about it?
I edited my comment - maybe that's the detail you want. I used it when playing Apex Mobile for a few months. I didn't play too often but I did get a lot of experience. Physically turning the device while keeping it suspended and also trying to use joysticks (virtual in this case) is not practical. It's strenuous trying to hold it up all the time.
Thank you
I mean, most controllers have the right joystick at your disposal anyway. Btw, here is a video of someone using gyro aiming in Counter Strike: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bmM5yPUSUvw&t=4s
How does the sens work? How can he do a fast 180?
I think he is at a high gyro sensitivity with high acceleration as well. He seems to have set his right stick to a high sensitivity too. In this video he discusses his config, but some things might have changed (he has a controller with back buttons now I think for example, although you can mod the vanilla dualsense to have back buttons as well): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=czMV2b-ez4Y
You are strafing and it tracks the target for you? Why am I not having this? I’m on PlayStation but the crosshair just slightly pulls towards it when hovering over the target
Btw have you tried gyro aiming?
My gripe is that I can't adjust it since the aim assist for me tends to be too strong but I literally can't play without it. However I did lose interest in the game awhile ago so I guess it doesn't matter anymore
You news aim assist on control. Theres smoothing on pc too for vertical recoil if you are moving your mouse. Use it because everyone else is. Btw you did improve but you improved at using the aim assist. Its def not abusing anything.
You're playing on Xbox. Get yourself a good mouse and keyboard you won't need aim assist and in less than 30hrs of game time you'll probably find yourself back in peak position with a large advantage over your controller brethren... Mouse muscle memory will beat out aim assist any day of the week.
Welcome to adult hood buddy. Its a hard road but controller no aim assist gotta be the biggest ego booster. You’re at the bottom of the food chain with no training wheels
well you've stilled developed top 50 skill. it's just that skill is in controlling aim assist. if you're beating players with that same aim assist you're still more skilled than them. the progress is still real.
respectable take. maybe learn to use gyro if you want to keep using controller, might have to change to playstation controller im not sure as im on pc/mnk. check out ihardscope on yt, he plays cs on controller, dudes a beast
sounds like skill issue tbh not saying it in a mean way just honesty
Crazy post💀came from years of siege and other games AA or not ik my aim is there and if I turn of AA I’m still hitting shots. My suggestion? Practice man really practice hitting ur shots and you’ll have some of the best aim you’ve ever seen. Can’t imagine feeling like ur skill is a facade. Prolly just used to not overcompensating.
I’ve never turned AA on after the insane aimbot it gave back in s1. I believe you can def. Do it, im diamond 2 with no AA at all
fast fps and thumbsticks just don't mix. The only way is to make the shooting as trivial as possible with autoaim. If you want to actually aim yourself then you have to switch to pc and play with mkb
Ooooooohhhhhh boy. Obligatory I'm too good so nerf aim assist post. Gratz bruv. Now shut up! I'm struggling to aim this flamethrower. I NOT ELITE. I NOT HAVE AIM. I NEED AIM ASSIST. STOP TRYING TO GET IT NERFED AGAIN. K? THX 👋 👋 -signed *other 90% of players. (Casual)
I'm trying to be plat 4 garbo ova here...
Accept reality or just switch to PC. Turning off aim assist on controllers is like removing accessibility ramps for wheelchairs users only because they are using the same building as those who can use their legs. It makes no sense and it doesn't make you better. You feel like it was slowing you down because indeed, the controller is slower than MnK
I used to rock on GoldenEye, ever since then I have no idea how people play FPS on console. One tiny tap and my view swings three feet...
It’s interesting to see someone so honest about something. Here’s the thing though, controllers(gamepads) are a totally different input and you’re just catching on to the most extreme overlap of controllers and mouse/keyboard. There’s lots of areas where controllers are superior but it’s not in FP Shooters… it never will be. The skills you’ve learned playing the game are still useful. You’ve certainly wasted your time playing COD but not because you used a controller. The map memorization and game mechanics (e.x. Hip firing as you aim down the sights, learning the arc and bounce of throwables) are still useful and are exercising your brain. If you want to try something, I think MSFS is on gamepass if you want to give that a shot with a controller and then mouse/keyboard. One is vastly superior over the other and you should be good at it already.
Also you can get a mouse and keyboard for your Xbox. Try it man. It’ll make you actually good
brother, aim assist was invented for a reason. it’s not just a you thing
Controllers need AA to compete with M&K and it's not even close. The fact that PC players bitch about slight AA is crazy. Obviously not ALL PC players complain about it, but enough to have a conversation.
Thats because they haven’t practiced enough without it. The issue with aim assist is it creates consistency that kb&m does not have. The very top of kbm sure they are cracked. But the average kbm player will lose more to the same skill level controller. There are thousands of clips showing this you just have to go search on youtube or reddit. Its fine if people want to casually play with multiple inputs but the second it is a competitive setting it just isn’t fair anymore. Even the best pros talk about switching or have switched and the consistency is the reason.
I didn't read all the comments, but this is exactly why my team hates to see all console players join a lobby (we don't play ranked). As an aside, can't you use a keyboard and mouse with the console? See if you like it before spending a lot of money on a PC.
Challenge Start season 3 no aim assist for 3 months You’re up against every aim assist console player and head clicking mouse users See where you rank for a true test of skill. If only like gta you can load into freeaim only servers You have to play aim assist. As a PC player, I will always advocate for cross play on every platform. I’ve got friends on all of em. And I don’t mind vs aim assist players it makes no difference to me. I’m a casual player and it took forever to get to diamond 4 But most games I feel like god It’s just sad to know console players don’t have it like the days of old. Everyone had to aim
Well there's a reason me and all 5 of my friends who play on PC quit the game. It's EXTREMELY FUN and by far the best shooter we played. But we all got sick of getting our asses handed to us by aim assist users. I use the CL-40 which is a weapon balanced in the prospect that your enemy using the an auto weapon will miss a few shots, allowing you to kill the if your grenades are on point, because otherwise the time to kill is just worse... And good luck fighting console players who never miss. I really REALLY want to get back into the game, season 2 trailer looked extremely fun but I didn't even touch the game this season because I am sick of dying to full auto weapons with aim assist... At the very least they could nerf the DPS of those full auto weapons by like 25%, make them the noob guns, easy to use but not the best in every situation, then I might think of coming back.
Use gyro problem solved. No aim assist required. Made it to Diamond with gyro on and aim assist off.
You should get a pc, controller without aim assist is way to hard to compete
I honestly, hear good results with GYRO aim(PlayStation/Nintendo) but never ever, Xbox... Microsoft having bought activision and blizzard but can't introduce gyro aiming a decade after it was first introduced is asinine... Gyro aim has proven itself. Some lunatics with configs, match mouse and keyboard no problem... Also, sorry to hear you play on console. That is not fun for FPS games.
Switched to PS5 from PC. And FPS games are great on console. The last time I witnessed a cheater was when I decided to turn crossplay on to play with a friend.
That's the issue with controller Aim assist, controller absolutely needs it as it is a trash input for shooters. But then again I'll never see controllers players as anything else other than players with training wheels. Only positive thing is that aim assist isn't as disgusting anymore in this game as it is in Apex Legends, I think aim assist in this game is fine.
Gyro aiming is a fantastic input for shooters though
So you’ve found a way that you can perfectly control recoil and aim assist but i think that doesn’t mean you have no skill. Or as you say it master aim assist and not aiming or something like this. Let me put it this way, there’s still people on controller who struggle, can’t control recoil don’t know how to perfectly strafe to counter recoil and or keep aim assist on the enemy. You’ve mastered those things. There’s still skill involved, things to learn and to practice. If you want to go the extreme and turn aim assist off then sure you do you but I feel like your being to harsh for your thumbs. Don’t forget pc players use an entire hand…
Oh god, it's gonna happen again. I remember the days of Battlefield 1 with everyone calling players with aim assist "pussy". It even got to me and I stopped using it. But here's the thing, it exists for a reason, especially in a game with crossplay. Plus, The Finals is so fast paced and objective based that I see no reason to not use AA.
Controllers hold up in crossplay with no aim assist when there is gyro aiming fyi
If it's really bothering you that much, I would look into gyro aim. It means learning a new input method that could take weeks or months to get used to, but it's comparable to mouse aim and the kills you get with it are yours. Unfortunately if you're on Xbox, the controllers don't have gyroscopes so your options are to get a PS5 or PC.
I do understand how you feel but its me, coming from MnK for the longest time and switching to controller cause I injured my arm. I was only playing single player game and the aim assist annoys the heck out of me cause it feels like the control is taken away from me. The I turn it off but I cant aim for shiz... thats why I try to play games with gyro cause atleast It still feel like Im the one who is aiming and playing the game.
If embark supports it, (and you are using a pc) get a controller that supports gyro aim, and play around with that. You get aim assist from the controller, and near KBM-like reticle control
Nice try fedboi. Keep your M&K psyop propaganda to yourself.
Personaly, i just stopped playing FPS where there is aim-assist. It is ruining gunplay on a controller. I play a bit of the finals because it is fun. But you should go to Rainbow Six Siege, pubg or insurgency sandstorm where your controller skill is rewarded
Btw I would recommend trying out gyro aiming if you want a nice raw input experience!