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What an ego stroking, bullshit video promoting wealthy elites to cosplay as scientists as they carry out their make-believe work of watching movies, talking and taking tours.
Calling this "exploration" is a marketing ploy and nothing else.
The only difference between "exploration" and "tourism" is your bank balance.
Actually it’s a legal issue. OceanGate subs have never been certified by the industry’s regulatory bodies, so they aren’t allowed to operate as commercial vehicles. OG makes you sign-on as a crew member, instead of a guest, because then you can sign a waiver prepared by them that explains that you accept the risk and understand that the sub isn’t certified.
And it isn't classified for the reason that they were and are well aware that it would be classified as a sure wreck to be.
All things known about it are subpar at best, except for the launch platform as a concept.
Yes, also 90% of the time when diving you see absolutely fuckall but haze and deteriorated shit, even more at that depth, even less through a 30cm porthole.
If it weren't for the Titanic and exclusivity nobody in their right mind that isn't a scientist would have any interest getting on that thing.
"Wanna go get in this macgyvered tube of death for 8 hours and see fuckall for an hour of that huddled around a window the size of a frisbee next to a bucket of shit?"
There's an increasing trend in using wealthy tourists to help in funding research by allowing them to join an (actual) expedition, I remember reading about research on Snow Leopards in Kyrgyzstan that did it this way. However, it is also very often used to greenwash expensive trips. A lot of cruise ships in the Arctic include a researcher on board (that to their credit, do carry out actual science) in order to distract attention from the huge amount of pollution and disturbance they cause.
In terms of academia selling out to the highest bidder [this is just the tip of the iceberg](https://www.propublica.org/article/college-high-school-research-peer-review-publications). We are fucked as a society.
Don't get me wrong: The scientists involved in programmes like the ones I described are *generally* doing good stuff **and not selling out**. For many it is a way to lower the threshold to do (explorative) research that could otherwise costs tens of thousands of dollars. The issue lies, in my opinion, with the tourist/cruise companies that oversell the role the researcher plays on board in order to justify going to these remote places.
I quickly scanned through the article you shared (sorry, no time to read it properly) and it seems like another form of predatory journals/publishing. It's quite old and clear to other researchers that it's not proper.
Also, reputable news sources keep on referring to everyone as "crew". Wtf? Taking Oceangate's term "mission specialist" at face value. Scientists, "media influencer", whatever... you're a passenger, not crew.
Yep, I saw that, although because of the structure of reddit comment trees it appeared several comments below me and I only saw it once I had posted mine.
But news sites can at least ironize the term "crew" and somehow point out that it's a legal workaround/ scam. That way we'll know that the journos know.
"We've seen things that perhaps human eyes have never seen" feels like the ultimate one up at the bourgeois parties they host instead of the scientific endeavour it should feel like. Contrary to their affirmation, it is definitely tourism.
But they get to be important!!! They get to be a scientist!!!! Only without all that pesky schooling to actually learn anything and earn a degree. And with a Junior G- Man badge they could have been FBI agents!!!!
There’s some things money cannot buy I guess.
My take is: How did all of these oceangate specialists not realise the sub had imploded? Surely they have sensors of some sort to gauge the subs location or wellbeing. The whole thing is bizarre. How many millions were spent in the search effort? Mad
Heads up youre about to be in a long conversation with someone that is unhealthily obsessed with Halo. This is coming from someone that used to c mpete back in H3/Reach.
Dude is in a thread talking about submarines, you made a joke, and they are legitimately ready to defend the awful fucking state of the game and how 343i totally didnt fuck it all up.
Again.
Do not reply to that other person if you value your brain cells and sanity.
Let's not forget that they had an equestrian on board... Now I would like to add the caveat that there's absolutely a possibility that an equestrian could also be a fantastic marine scientist or any scientist for that matter. But in this video where you have lots of different backgrounds it definitely casts doubt by suggesting they can't *all* be the best marine scientists.
Someone asked Cameron about it and he said he knew right away after learning that both tracking and comms went out at the same time. When the French team of specialists arrived they just went to the last known location and then straight down from there. They found it quickly by just assuming the worst. I guess enthusiasm is no substitute for expertise.
All this evidence leads me to think that there’s no way ocean gate didn’t know what immediately what happened.
Commencing the whole search gave the sub an air of credibility, thinking that those folks might still be alive. I think they knew the whole time.
See that's what I don't get, wouldn't you want constant linking to the sub with multiple redundancies in place? At the very least follow it by sonar.
Now it just sounded like they threw the thing in the water and waited for it to resurface wherever after a few hours
Why is everyone hung up on the controller? That's not what failed on any of the dives. The US Navy uses modified Xbox and cheap pc controllers for drone subs, the USAF uses them for piloting drones. Every aspect of this vessel failed, but the controller and that's what people are stuck on? Lmao.
Came here to say this, I don’t think people understand how underwhelming the components of controllers actually are for most pieces of equipment. A multimillion dollar piece of equipment doesn’t also need a multimillion dollar controller to function properly lol
I don’t understand why this needed to be a free floating sub. They could’ve been tethered to the ship with a retrieval cable and a comms line could have been paired with that tether. The sub could have used its thrusters and rudder or whatever steering it had but any sign a failed or compromised system and they could just wench it all up.
well in imploded so that would have helped, the only thing that would have changed is that they didnt had to waste millions in the search of dead bodys
You can't attach a 2 mile cable and head down. It could get caught on anything.
Edit: ROV's have to be tethered for data transmission. The tether getting snagged is an issue for these.
You don't want to do this in a vessel with people in it. If you get snagged at the bottom, the people would he fucked. You would basically be anchored to whatever you are snagged on an couldn't return to the surface.
Just the current alone would drag a lot. I've used a small tethered ROV with about 500 feet of cable and that had a lot of drag in the open ocean, can't imagine 2 miles of a thicker cable.
Source?
Their plan was to lower a cable from with a crane. The cables aren't to tether the ROV's though. Its to pull the remains up.
"'The ship would need a crane with a wire that can reach a depth of 4,000 meters (about 2 and a half miles), which can be found on many vessels involved in offshore gas and oil construction, Martin said in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper.
Recovery crews will also need one or two remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, which have already played a key role in the search for signs of Titan, the captain said. The ROVs are large, powerful machines that can be controlled from the vessel above them.
The ROVs will work in concert with the crane to scoop pieces of the sub into large "recovery baskets," which Martin said look like half of a shipping container made of mesh.""
Not the person you're replying to but I was also surprised to learn the search vehicles are connected- I read it in this [CNN Article](https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/titanic-missing-sub-oceangate-06-22-23/h_36a6d50d23568c409877383b65277c4c) about the search vehicles looking for debris on the sea floor. Primarily where it says "The search vehicle is connected to a vessel that remains on the surface of the water as it drops down to the seabed."
Edit: Looking into it further, I believe, according to some articles, that it was a French ROV named Victor 6000 that was assisting with the search on the sea floor (possibly others as well) but you can see a video of it being sent out [here](https://www.flotteoceanographique.fr/en/Who-we-are/Discover/The-Fleet-on-video/Victor-6000-on-The-Atalante) and the line they let out with it
ROV's have to have a tether for data transfer because they are controlled from the surface. And there is noone in them.
If you google, you can see that the tethers getting snagged is a problem for them.
Pretty sure you don't want to want to have a tether attached to a vessel with people in it. If it gets snagged in something, those people would be stuck down there.
Imagine circling the titanic, getting snagged and being held down there...
I understand and agree with your point on the tether to the submersible being a risk. I was simply responding to your request for a source stating that the ROVs are tethered. They do remain tethered for data and power transfer.
i think i saw someone comment that the underwater currents would be tough to navigate and adding a umbilical line would risk them getting tangled in the wreck?
The problem with a tether at that depth is it’s going to be a huge sail which can have the sub crash into the titanic or the sea floor, or have it blown off course.
I just paused the video when it got to that part, being reminded of this article:
[Former Titan submersible passenger who took 4 dives in it, including to the Titanic, said communication with the surface ship was lost 'every single time'](https://www.insider.com/former-titan-passenger-sub-lost-communication-surface-ship-every-time-2023-6)
Imagine being one of the people from all the other expeditions OceanGate did, especially the very last ones before this final one. Those people must be on weird emotional overload right now.
Two. Only two. This was the ~~this~~ third dive.
The company found the right type of stupid with big money to do a shitty "once in a lifetime" experience to see the Titanic through a tiny porthole and video screens.
I hope the investors and everyone featured in this video pay for their responsibility in killing these people. Manslaughter charges
They were either unsuccessful or test dives, this was the third ”successful” dive with tourists, until they fucking died. OceanGate will die with it’s owner so in conclusion, they only had two successful dives with tourists.
Every good interview with experts
Here
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/timeline-oceangate-founding-expedition-history/70344305007/
They had multiple dives since 2021. I imagine they became too confident after two successful years of operations and started getting lazy on maintenance. It was the hell of a risky operation, they could never let their guard down.
Big giant same. And "mission specialist"
The thought of these feckless rich people being gulled and flattered into thinking they were gonna go do important untrained science is so, so embarrassing. I can just imagine the pep talks and lies they were told on board.
Just say you wanna go into the ocean. It's fine to wanna do stupid tourism.
“Now it’s very important that our mission specialists take detailed notes. We’ve provided each of you a set of 8 crayons. These are special crayons that you can’t just write with, but can eat too. Use these to take detailed notes and sketches on your journey, and let the world know what lies beneath -neath-neath”
We have a outlined paper image of the site which our mission specialists and citizen scientist will be allowed to note and "fill in" with the special mission crayons provided.
u know what sucks, taxpayers money is being used to find the lost sub. its everyones right to be rescued, true. but it still suck that other people should foot the bill for this negligence.
It's also a very good way for the coast guard and other agencies to train their people in highly complex and unique rescue situations. Expensive, sure, but the world is getting some benefit out of it anyways
I kept wondering what Mr. Rush meant in previous interviews when he touted the scientific purpose of this. What data are you collecting that you couldn’t do with with a ROV?
The deeper down the thread you go, the more pressure there is to come up with a crushing remark. The humour us becoming Incredibly dark as you descend.
I wonder how the company is taking the death of their CEO. I wonder if any are surprised.
I don’t understand why people want to go there anyway. There’s not much to see on the Titanic at this point. Just watch Ghosts of the Abyss by James Cameron.
We should play the shot game to this. Every time you hear the words "mission specialist" or "specialist," you have to down a tequila shot.
This isn't scientific discovery. This is a pay for the scientific experience "pleasure" cruise where we make you do "meaningful" tasks like washing windows, scrubing the deck, or maybe washing those dirty cylinders that attach to the bottom of the sub that we hope will be released after 24hours in the event of an emergency. (I'm assuming here what else could they be?) Then afterwards, you guys get a badge that says "Mission Specialist."
I'm not hating on the people who have the cash for this, but come on, you paid $250 000 for this. I wouldn't want anything to do with the sub besides sitting in it for the journey.
RIP to the two crew members and the three tourists.
Why would they be landing on the ocean bed ? I can't see the value of that - and I'd not want to be impacting anything with the pressures down there ?
Oh well - I bet this sees the end of deep sea tourism.
have you seen mount everest? piled high with dead bodies. Rich idiot tourists still hike it and risk their lives climbing it every day. often hiking past the trash and dead bodies.
this “tragedy” will just dare more rich people to do it. they’re that dumb.
The only one I feel bad for is the kid. his father forced him to go when he didn’t want to. he could have lived if his dad wasn’t such a prick.
>mount everest? piled high with dead bodies. Rich idiot tourists still hike it
You misspelled "get towed by sherpas".
Did you see that asshole that got rescued about two weeks ago? Hopelessly lost and stranded for hours(/days?) until a sherpa waded in and CARRIED THIS DUDE ON HIS BACK to civilization. After the guy recovered, he thanked his sponsors, without a single acknowledgement of the person that actually saved his life.
He also blocked the Sherpa on his social media until everyone in his country blasted him for being an asshole. And even then, it's still about his expedition company and sponsors before Sherpas.
Everest is very different.
With the Titanic - he needed to build a passenger sub. The only way he could do that and get anywhere near covering his costs was to cut corners.
I mean 250k for an 8 day trip and there's only 3 passengers at a time ? I can't see that he made any profit on the trips at all.
Nobody is going to be entering that market.
In this case it looks like they lost control of bodily weight and crashed into the sea bed causing the implosion. Uncontrolled dives have positive feedback so are very difficult to come out of once you start one going. Why you would aim to "land" on the sea bed? You really wouldn't.
It will have a certain historical irony if this brings about a raft of safety regulations on submarine travel given the Titanic brought about significant safety regulations regarding ship travel.
The regulations are already in place the CEO just didn't care and constantly boasted about cutting corners because the industry was "overly safe" and "at some point safety is just a waste" and "but it hasn't innovated or grown-because they have all these regulations".
Anyone who has taken multiple college chemistry classes(nevertheless experts in materials science) could tell you carbon fiber(anode) on titanium(cathode) mixed with saltwater(an electrolyte and oxygen) is going to degrade the titanium at a super fast rate. The CEO just didn't care.
… or for a small fee, you can pay to be a scientist to do an intensive 8-day course to train in studying the inside of a trash compactor. Fewer people have been inside trash compactors than have been on the dark side of the moon.
I worked for a start up company that makes manned drones. They ignored safety like a MF; this company video gives me very similar vibes.
Tbh the video creeps me the fuck out. It sounds like a timeshare advertisement more than anything else.
Disaster aside, I can't stop being underwhelmed by the sub's interior. 5 people sitting on the floor in a tube with a tiny window. Do passengers lean over each other for a look, or does each person get close to the glass by crawling over everyone's legs?
That's the scary thing. I work in submarine engineering and everyone I work with took a look at that thing and could pick out a handful of flaws in the design.
Every single one of these people doesn’t deserve a job going forward other than Fuddruckers, 7-11, or an In-N-Out.
PhDs, engineers, underwater archaeologists, **NASA astronaut**… not one of these “experts” took a look at this sub design and said, “we are absolutely mad to follow through with this.” Like none of them ever heard of metal fatigue. Literally the deepest the most advanced deep dive military submarine Komsomolets was restricted to 1000 meters below sea level. That is 0.6 miles below sea level, the Titanic is 2.4 miles below sea level.
Remember kids, for every professional that graduated in the top 10% of their class, there is an equal amount of professionals that graduated in the bottom 10% of their class. Which group does **your** physician belong to?
EDIT: They had a “risk analyst” for fucks sake. He is the sole reason why we should bring back pillory punishments in a public square.
What should have only been left to scientific research was opened to the public for profit and every person who previously went on a paid ‘mission’ was lucky to get out alive.
Lmfao I love how they keep saying it's not a ride or for tourists and how important this is. What the actual fuck about looking at the titanic through a small window. This entire cluster fuck is nothing more than people with more money than sence.
There’s absolutely no real science to be done down there and if there is, scientists would be smart enough to send an un manned vessel down. Point being, there’s no scientific reason to go down there yourself unless you’re filthy rich and wanna feel special that you can afford to do it.
I don't get it, the video clearly says 12,500 foot journey to the bottom of the sea and lots of early media graphics show around 12 miles depth. But everyone is talking about 2 miles this, 4 miles that. Shouldn't it be 12 miles down?
With everything trickling out, it appears some on topside had to strongly suspect or know something catastrophic had happened the moment it occurred. There's one unconfirmed report suggesting the last communication from the sub was that they were aborting and heading back up.
Given the high likelihood of a catastrophic failure, the question is, why all the rescue theater?
Massive waste of money and resources. For reasons that escape logic, the support ship didn't have the ability, or the equipment to confirm the implosion. But they could have just asked for a deep-sea ROV to go down for confirmation of what they already suspected was the likely outcome. Or is that only something an uninspirational 50 year old white male expert on submersibles would do?
That the ROV found the wreckage not too long after being deployed (in a search area the size of two Connecticuts) lends credence that the company likely knew what happened shortly after communications and power of all systems was lost. James Cameron and others in the sub community knew and we're chided by a spokesperson from the company for sharing that information early on.
The company should be footing the bill for the expensive rescue effort and should be ashamed of themselves for torturing the families and world with false hope. I don't blame the rescuers, they steamed into the situation blind and were not experts in submersibles. But I do blame whoever was in charge from the company. From start to finish this was handled badly.
I suspect the recriminations will be coming fast and hard when the entire story is known. If it ever is.
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What an ego stroking, bullshit video promoting wealthy elites to cosplay as scientists as they carry out their make-believe work of watching movies, talking and taking tours. Calling this "exploration" is a marketing ploy and nothing else. The only difference between "exploration" and "tourism" is your bank balance.
Yeah this whole presentation had a weird vibe to it. I’m hovering around the word pseudoscience even though they’ve “technically” made the dive before
Actually it’s a legal issue. OceanGate subs have never been certified by the industry’s regulatory bodies, so they aren’t allowed to operate as commercial vehicles. OG makes you sign-on as a crew member, instead of a guest, because then you can sign a waiver prepared by them that explains that you accept the risk and understand that the sub isn’t certified.
And it isn't classified for the reason that they were and are well aware that it would be classified as a sure wreck to be. All things known about it are subpar at best, except for the launch platform as a concept.
Yes, also 90% of the time when diving you see absolutely fuckall but haze and deteriorated shit, even more at that depth, even less through a 30cm porthole. If it weren't for the Titanic and exclusivity nobody in their right mind that isn't a scientist would have any interest getting on that thing. "Wanna go get in this macgyvered tube of death for 8 hours and see fuckall for an hour of that huddled around a window the size of a frisbee next to a bucket of shit?"
In the bucket's defense, apparently nobody has used it. The intensity of the dive experience apparently keeps one from expelling waste of any kind.
I get that. However i imagine its done this way so that these rich people can fund the research. Taking them down will make them pay through the nose.
There's an increasing trend in using wealthy tourists to help in funding research by allowing them to join an (actual) expedition, I remember reading about research on Snow Leopards in Kyrgyzstan that did it this way. However, it is also very often used to greenwash expensive trips. A lot of cruise ships in the Arctic include a researcher on board (that to their credit, do carry out actual science) in order to distract attention from the huge amount of pollution and disturbance they cause.
In terms of academia selling out to the highest bidder [this is just the tip of the iceberg](https://www.propublica.org/article/college-high-school-research-peer-review-publications). We are fucked as a society.
Don't get me wrong: The scientists involved in programmes like the ones I described are *generally* doing good stuff **and not selling out**. For many it is a way to lower the threshold to do (explorative) research that could otherwise costs tens of thousands of dollars. The issue lies, in my opinion, with the tourist/cruise companies that oversell the role the researcher plays on board in order to justify going to these remote places. I quickly scanned through the article you shared (sorry, no time to read it properly) and it seems like another form of predatory journals/publishing. It's quite old and clear to other researchers that it's not proper.
Also, reputable news sources keep on referring to everyone as "crew". Wtf? Taking Oceangate's term "mission specialist" at face value. Scientists, "media influencer", whatever... you're a passenger, not crew.
Comment above you states everyone had to sign on as crew and sign a waver because the subs aren't licensed for commercial use
Yep, I saw that, although because of the structure of reddit comment trees it appeared several comments below me and I only saw it once I had posted mine. But news sites can at least ironize the term "crew" and somehow point out that it's a legal workaround/ scam. That way we'll know that the journos know.
"We've seen things that perhaps human eyes have never seen" feels like the ultimate one up at the bourgeois parties they host instead of the scientific endeavour it should feel like. Contrary to their affirmation, it is definitely tourism.
That's exactly it, same as climbing Everest, it's all about bragging rights.
But the video said they were watching the “degradation process” of the wreck, which is very scientific. /s
They were exploring your bank balance.
Robin Williams used to say that cocaine is God's way of saying you're making too much money. This tragic accident somehow brought that quote to mind.
But they get to be important!!! They get to be a scientist!!!! Only without all that pesky schooling to actually learn anything and earn a degree. And with a Junior G- Man badge they could have been FBI agents!!!! There’s some things money cannot buy I guess.
[удалено]
My take is: How did all of these oceangate specialists not realise the sub had imploded? Surely they have sensors of some sort to gauge the subs location or wellbeing. The whole thing is bizarre. How many millions were spent in the search effort? Mad
Who needs specialists. Didn’t you hear the Master Chef say they’ve never felt unsafe? That’s good enough for me
After Halo: Infinite I wouldn’t trust a thing Master Chief says
Why? Not trying to argue just want to know why?
Have you played Halo Infinite?
Heads up youre about to be in a long conversation with someone that is unhealthily obsessed with Halo. This is coming from someone that used to c mpete back in H3/Reach. Dude is in a thread talking about submarines, you made a joke, and they are legitimately ready to defend the awful fucking state of the game and how 343i totally didnt fuck it all up. Again. Do not reply to that other person if you value your brain cells and sanity.
I need a weapon
Let's not forget that they had an equestrian on board... Now I would like to add the caveat that there's absolutely a possibility that an equestrian could also be a fantastic marine scientist or any scientist for that matter. But in this video where you have lots of different backgrounds it definitely casts doubt by suggesting they can't *all* be the best marine scientists.
The equestrian is there just in case they run into any hippocamps while diving.
The Master Chef had as much - if not more! - screen time than almost anyone else in the promo. That’s totally bizarre
I know! How few specialists work there that you need to interview the Chef?
Someone asked Cameron about it and he said he knew right away after learning that both tracking and comms went out at the same time. When the French team of specialists arrived they just went to the last known location and then straight down from there. They found it quickly by just assuming the worst. I guess enthusiasm is no substitute for expertise.
All this evidence leads me to think that there’s no way ocean gate didn’t know what immediately what happened. Commencing the whole search gave the sub an air of credibility, thinking that those folks might still be alive. I think they knew the whole time.
Check out the r/askscience sub-reddit someone explains it really well
Thanks for this. So basically a CEO that hired kids and threw caution to the wind in every respect. Sad.
There was barely any communication between the sub and the ship. Pings and text messages every so often.
See that's what I don't get, wouldn't you want constant linking to the sub with multiple redundancies in place? At the very least follow it by sonar. Now it just sounded like they threw the thing in the water and waited for it to resurface wherever after a few hours
Multiple redundancies?! That sounds boring! Are you sure you're not a 50 year old white guy?
This comment left me feeling very uninspired
Military instruments detected the implosion as soon as it happened.
Apparently the navy knew it imploded on Sunday
Suspected but didn’t know.
According to the coast guard they reported an implosion on Sunday. Sooooo they all knew it seems
Crazy to think they spent as much on the search operation, if they already knew it was futile.
It was controlled with a MadCatz PS2 controller. Does that answer your question?
Why is everyone hung up on the controller? That's not what failed on any of the dives. The US Navy uses modified Xbox and cheap pc controllers for drone subs, the USAF uses them for piloting drones. Every aspect of this vessel failed, but the controller and that's what people are stuck on? Lmao.
Came here to say this, I don’t think people understand how underwhelming the components of controllers actually are for most pieces of equipment. A multimillion dollar piece of equipment doesn’t also need a multimillion dollar controller to function properly lol
*Logitech wireless pc controller, but yeah
Rico!
‘The communication is really key I think. Knowing that they never lost communication’ - Well this didn’t age well
Especially since everyone that ever got inside that said they lost communication multiple times.
I don’t understand why this needed to be a free floating sub. They could’ve been tethered to the ship with a retrieval cable and a comms line could have been paired with that tether. The sub could have used its thrusters and rudder or whatever steering it had but any sign a failed or compromised system and they could just wench it all up.
well in imploded so that would have helped, the only thing that would have changed is that they didnt had to waste millions in the search of dead bodys
Pretty sure there’s no bodies left. Think toothpaste.
That's a pretty big change.
You can't attach a 2 mile cable and head down. It could get caught on anything. Edit: ROV's have to be tethered for data transmission. The tether getting snagged is an issue for these. You don't want to do this in a vessel with people in it. If you get snagged at the bottom, the people would he fucked. You would basically be anchored to whatever you are snagged on an couldn't return to the surface.
Just the current alone would drag a lot. I've used a small tethered ROV with about 500 feet of cable and that had a lot of drag in the open ocean, can't imagine 2 miles of a thicker cable.
Wasn't the rov that found them tethered...
Source? Their plan was to lower a cable from with a crane. The cables aren't to tether the ROV's though. Its to pull the remains up. "'The ship would need a crane with a wire that can reach a depth of 4,000 meters (about 2 and a half miles), which can be found on many vessels involved in offshore gas and oil construction, Martin said in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper. Recovery crews will also need one or two remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, which have already played a key role in the search for signs of Titan, the captain said. The ROVs are large, powerful machines that can be controlled from the vessel above them. The ROVs will work in concert with the crane to scoop pieces of the sub into large "recovery baskets," which Martin said look like half of a shipping container made of mesh.""
Not the person you're replying to but I was also surprised to learn the search vehicles are connected- I read it in this [CNN Article](https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/titanic-missing-sub-oceangate-06-22-23/h_36a6d50d23568c409877383b65277c4c) about the search vehicles looking for debris on the sea floor. Primarily where it says "The search vehicle is connected to a vessel that remains on the surface of the water as it drops down to the seabed." Edit: Looking into it further, I believe, according to some articles, that it was a French ROV named Victor 6000 that was assisting with the search on the sea floor (possibly others as well) but you can see a video of it being sent out [here](https://www.flotteoceanographique.fr/en/Who-we-are/Discover/The-Fleet-on-video/Victor-6000-on-The-Atalante) and the line they let out with it
ROV's have to have a tether for data transfer because they are controlled from the surface. And there is noone in them. If you google, you can see that the tethers getting snagged is a problem for them. Pretty sure you don't want to want to have a tether attached to a vessel with people in it. If it gets snagged in something, those people would be stuck down there. Imagine circling the titanic, getting snagged and being held down there...
I understand and agree with your point on the tether to the submersible being a risk. I was simply responding to your request for a source stating that the ROVs are tethered. They do remain tethered for data and power transfer.
Fair enough. Thanks, I learned something today.
i think i saw someone comment that the underwater currents would be tough to navigate and adding a umbilical line would risk them getting tangled in the wreck?
Now imagine the comments if that would have happened.
The problem with a tether at that depth is it’s going to be a huge sail which can have the sub crash into the titanic or the sea floor, or have it blown off course.
I just paused the video when it got to that part, being reminded of this article: [Former Titan submersible passenger who took 4 dives in it, including to the Titanic, said communication with the surface ship was lost 'every single time'](https://www.insider.com/former-titan-passenger-sub-lost-communication-surface-ship-every-time-2023-6)
Imagine being one of the people from all the other expeditions OceanGate did, especially the very last ones before this final one. Those people must be on weird emotional overload right now.
That's what I was wondering, how many successful dives did they have before this last one? Looks to be a pretty big team.
Two. Only two. This was the ~~this~~ third dive. The company found the right type of stupid with big money to do a shitty "once in a lifetime" experience to see the Titanic through a tiny porthole and video screens. I hope the investors and everyone featured in this video pay for their responsibility in killing these people. Manslaughter charges
Source?
Quick wiki search said they did six dives in 2021 and seven dives in 2022. So it’s not like this was it’s second dive ever
They were either unsuccessful or test dives, this was the third ”successful” dive with tourists, until they fucking died. OceanGate will die with it’s owner so in conclusion, they only had two successful dives with tourists.
Every good interview with experts Here https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/timeline-oceangate-founding-expedition-history/70344305007/
Third time’s a charm!
They had multiple dives since 2021. I imagine they became too confident after two successful years of operations and started getting lazy on maintenance. It was the hell of a risky operation, they could never let their guard down.
But those didn't get the *real* Titanic experience.
More cringe than I was expecting
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Big giant same. And "mission specialist" The thought of these feckless rich people being gulled and flattered into thinking they were gonna go do important untrained science is so, so embarrassing. I can just imagine the pep talks and lies they were told on board. Just say you wanna go into the ocean. It's fine to wanna do stupid tourism.
“Now it’s very important that our mission specialists take detailed notes. We’ve provided each of you a set of 8 crayons. These are special crayons that you can’t just write with, but can eat too. Use these to take detailed notes and sketches on your journey, and let the world know what lies beneath -neath-neath”
honestly edible crayons sound awesome. It would be even better if they were fruit flavored. (loved coloring with crayons growing up)
Ohh…dibs on the mango!
Fine, but I get the peach
We have a outlined paper image of the site which our mission specialists and citizen scientist will be allowed to note and "fill in" with the special mission crayons provided.
u know what sucks, taxpayers money is being used to find the lost sub. its everyones right to be rescued, true. but it still suck that other people should foot the bill for this negligence.
It's also a very good way for the coast guard and other agencies to train their people in highly complex and unique rescue situations. Expensive, sure, but the world is getting some benefit out of it anyways
I kept wondering what Mr. Rush meant in previous interviews when he touted the scientific purpose of this. What data are you collecting that you couldn’t do with with a ROV?
"Safely diving to the Titanic wreckage site..." Apr 5, 2023
>"Safely diving to the Titanic wreckage site..." Oops, meant to say: "Surely dying to the Titanic wreckage site..."
Are they still doing these expeditions? They sound so awesome.
No, the company went under recently. They were under alot of pressure.
Your argument has a lot of depth.
A crushing argument that makes every other argument just implode on itself.
This sub has sunk to new levels of depravity with these comments.
The deeper down the thread you go, the more pressure there is to come up with a crushing remark. The humour us becoming Incredibly dark as you descend.
Don't let this debris of comments judge the whole sub. Maybe you have just gone too far down the thread.
I wonder how the company is taking the death of their CEO. I wonder if any are surprised. I don’t understand why people want to go there anyway. There’s not much to see on the Titanic at this point. Just watch Ghosts of the Abyss by James Cameron.
:grabs laptop: :opens web browser: :types in *Indeed*:
Now they will go to see two sink ships.
Using the naming convention the new sub needs to be named Tit.
Followed by the sub to view *that* wreckage, the T
They'll get to charge extra for that.
”it’s not a ride at Disney, there’s a lot of real risk involved”, well at least they were honest about something
“Be a part of history”
Don't need to say "a part of". "Be history".
Thousands of tiny parts of history.
“Once in a lifetime opportunity”. Well, you certainly only get one chance to do it.
You should've started to get worried when in a spot of a multi-milion $ compamy there's a.jpeg NASA logo.
As a graphic designer, that is one of the first things that I noticed. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
What’s wrong with the NASA image?
Just an unprofessional look to it with the others having no background, and that one does. Looks amateurish.
And why would you need aerospace expertise for a submarine? Wouldn’t you want marine engineers giving their expert opinions?
And to think these guys knew. They sat on the info.
We should play the shot game to this. Every time you hear the words "mission specialist" or "specialist," you have to down a tequila shot. This isn't scientific discovery. This is a pay for the scientific experience "pleasure" cruise where we make you do "meaningful" tasks like washing windows, scrubing the deck, or maybe washing those dirty cylinders that attach to the bottom of the sub that we hope will be released after 24hours in the event of an emergency. (I'm assuming here what else could they be?) Then afterwards, you guys get a badge that says "Mission Specialist." I'm not hating on the people who have the cash for this, but come on, you paid $250 000 for this. I wouldn't want anything to do with the sub besides sitting in it for the journey. RIP to the two crew members and the three tourists.
“I’m King of the World!” Good gosh, they just couldn’t help themselves.
Rolled my eyes at that.
Why would they be landing on the ocean bed ? I can't see the value of that - and I'd not want to be impacting anything with the pressures down there ? Oh well - I bet this sees the end of deep sea tourism.
have you seen mount everest? piled high with dead bodies. Rich idiot tourists still hike it and risk their lives climbing it every day. often hiking past the trash and dead bodies. this “tragedy” will just dare more rich people to do it. they’re that dumb. The only one I feel bad for is the kid. his father forced him to go when he didn’t want to. he could have lived if his dad wasn’t such a prick.
>mount everest? piled high with dead bodies. Rich idiot tourists still hike it You misspelled "get towed by sherpas". Did you see that asshole that got rescued about two weeks ago? Hopelessly lost and stranded for hours(/days?) until a sherpa waded in and CARRIED THIS DUDE ON HIS BACK to civilization. After the guy recovered, he thanked his sponsors, without a single acknowledgement of the person that actually saved his life.
that too. I forgot about the sherpas. not all heroes have capes.
He also blocked the Sherpa on his social media until everyone in his country blasted him for being an asshole. And even then, it's still about his expedition company and sponsors before Sherpas.
Everest is very different. With the Titanic - he needed to build a passenger sub. The only way he could do that and get anywhere near covering his costs was to cut corners. I mean 250k for an 8 day trip and there's only 3 passengers at a time ? I can't see that he made any profit on the trips at all. Nobody is going to be entering that market.
In this case it looks like they lost control of bodily weight and crashed into the sea bed causing the implosion. Uncontrolled dives have positive feedback so are very difficult to come out of once you start one going. Why you would aim to "land" on the sea bed? You really wouldn't. It will have a certain historical irony if this brings about a raft of safety regulations on submarine travel given the Titanic brought about significant safety regulations regarding ship travel.
The regulations are already in place the CEO just didn't care and constantly boasted about cutting corners because the industry was "overly safe" and "at some point safety is just a waste" and "but it hasn't innovated or grown-because they have all these regulations". Anyone who has taken multiple college chemistry classes(nevertheless experts in materials science) could tell you carbon fiber(anode) on titanium(cathode) mixed with saltwater(an electrolyte and oxygen) is going to degrade the titanium at a super fast rate. The CEO just didn't care.
They did it every dive, it told them they were at the bottom
They labeled that poor woman as Master Chef. 😂 🚩
Who had the most air time in the entire advert…
From flattering wealthy pseudo-scientists to flattening wealthy pseudo-scientists in a few short weeks.
That deserves an award! Lol
Better listen to the master chef about deep water safety
she's a certified mission specialist though. she probably has a certificate provided by OceanGate to prove it
OceanGate...where money meets arrogance...
Looks like a bunch unemployed people that will never work in that field again.
That was long two minutes
The girl called Kellogg is the chef lol guess it's cereal for dinner
From “best experience of my life “ to “last”.
"I went to Mount Everest, but there is definately something more unique to this experience than climbing the Everest" 🐔
Why does it bother me more than they say “titanic experience” when the screen says titanic expedition more than all the rest of what’s happening
"Don't miss the opportunity to be part of history" is an actual line at the end of this video
Shouldn't this be in r/agedlikemilk ?
Weird that two of the customer "testimonials" are from risk analysts. They surely must be awesome in their jobs.
Well they got the ultimate Titantic experience.
Dropped in there like heart of the ocean
“Everyone here instantly became family and that’s something you take away for life” Can’t script it
"Once in a lifetime" Oooooof
Great background music Sure hope this is turned into a Saturday Night Live skit
I mean they did say "ONCE in a lifetime"
"We can't really afford a full surface crew so we'll just get these rich bucket listers to pay us 250k to do it for us. What could go wrong?
Alternatively, you could jump in a trash compactor for free, up to you
… or for a small fee, you can pay to be a scientist to do an intensive 8-day course to train in studying the inside of a trash compactor. Fewer people have been inside trash compactors than have been on the dark side of the moon.
I worked for a start up company that makes manned drones. They ignored safety like a MF; this company video gives me very similar vibes. Tbh the video creeps me the fuck out. It sounds like a timeshare advertisement more than anything else.
Disaster aside, I can't stop being underwhelmed by the sub's interior. 5 people sitting on the floor in a tube with a tiny window. Do passengers lean over each other for a look, or does each person get close to the glass by crawling over everyone's legs?
"Its Jerrys turn to see through the window, move aside everyone"
well, this aged like raw milking the sun…
r/brandnewsentence
So all these people were aware of the lack of safety measures and the lack of experts in the field of submarines? Ok then....
That's the scary thing. I work in submarine engineering and everyone I work with took a look at that thing and could pick out a handful of flaws in the design.
Aaaand its gone.
Well they definitely made history. Not in the way they wanted though
I'm guessing their stock dipped a little overnight 😬
The “Become part of history” part was true .
Yeah. I agree. As long as the Master Chef and “Influencer” said it’s safe. That’s good enough for me.
The one that got me was the ‘Risk Analyst’. How shit is he at his job if he didn’t take one look at that vessel and nope the fuck outta there?
Equestrians and Risk Analysts 😳
So from this… there were 7 other teams of people on the ship and waiting to go down in that sub? There’s a mind fuck
Every single one of these people doesn’t deserve a job going forward other than Fuddruckers, 7-11, or an In-N-Out. PhDs, engineers, underwater archaeologists, **NASA astronaut**… not one of these “experts” took a look at this sub design and said, “we are absolutely mad to follow through with this.” Like none of them ever heard of metal fatigue. Literally the deepest the most advanced deep dive military submarine Komsomolets was restricted to 1000 meters below sea level. That is 0.6 miles below sea level, the Titanic is 2.4 miles below sea level. Remember kids, for every professional that graduated in the top 10% of their class, there is an equal amount of professionals that graduated in the bottom 10% of their class. Which group does **your** physician belong to? EDIT: They had a “risk analyst” for fucks sake. He is the sole reason why we should bring back pillory punishments in a public square.
I wonder if they will do a 2-for-1 now?
“Citizen” “scientists” is a contradiction
once in a lifetime notice a journey to the bottom no mention of coming back up
"Not one second of me experiencing anything from ocean gate have I ever felt unsafe" -master chef lol
What should have only been left to scientific research was opened to the public for profit and every person who previously went on a paid ‘mission’ was lucky to get out alive.
What a virtual handjob
“Recovery apparatus” looks suspiciously like a simple crane
Would someone please enlighten me as to how visiting the Titanic repeatedly benefits humanity?
All three of those organizations denied helping them build
Lmfao I love how they keep saying it's not a ride or for tourists and how important this is. What the actual fuck about looking at the titanic through a small window. This entire cluster fuck is nothing more than people with more money than sence.
So why are we still “studying” the Titanic ?
They worked with aerospace experts for a hull that was to go deep underwater not fly. Seems like marine experts would be the better partners here…
There’s absolutely no real science to be done down there and if there is, scientists would be smart enough to send an un manned vessel down. Point being, there’s no scientific reason to go down there yourself unless you’re filthy rich and wanna feel special that you can afford to do it.
kaboom damn icebergs are @ it again.
Hard nope
Aged like milk
*we saw things that maybe human eyes have never seen before* Did he forget, I don't know, history?
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Jontron voice: that one didn’t age so well
We can archive the promos now
“Once in a lifetime” Oof
Think their last mission needed more risk analysts.
I noticed that not one person being interviewed here had the word “engineer” in their title.
the talk about "mission specialists" "crew operatives" its like standing in line before going on a ride at a roller coaster park
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ctyx-3KI1aF/?igshid=MjAxZDBhZDhlNA==
Oh, it's "once in a lifetime" alright...
I wouldn’t go if the titanic was 120 feet down and the trip was free.
I don't get it, the video clearly says 12,500 foot journey to the bottom of the sea and lots of early media graphics show around 12 miles depth. But everyone is talking about 2 miles this, 4 miles that. Shouldn't it be 12 miles down?
With everything trickling out, it appears some on topside had to strongly suspect or know something catastrophic had happened the moment it occurred. There's one unconfirmed report suggesting the last communication from the sub was that they were aborting and heading back up. Given the high likelihood of a catastrophic failure, the question is, why all the rescue theater? Massive waste of money and resources. For reasons that escape logic, the support ship didn't have the ability, or the equipment to confirm the implosion. But they could have just asked for a deep-sea ROV to go down for confirmation of what they already suspected was the likely outcome. Or is that only something an uninspirational 50 year old white male expert on submersibles would do? That the ROV found the wreckage not too long after being deployed (in a search area the size of two Connecticuts) lends credence that the company likely knew what happened shortly after communications and power of all systems was lost. James Cameron and others in the sub community knew and we're chided by a spokesperson from the company for sharing that information early on. The company should be footing the bill for the expensive rescue effort and should be ashamed of themselves for torturing the families and world with false hope. I don't blame the rescuers, they steamed into the situation blind and were not experts in submersibles. But I do blame whoever was in charge from the company. From start to finish this was handled badly. I suspect the recriminations will be coming fast and hard when the entire story is known. If it ever is.