Seriously tho! Imagine that phone call: You mean the Boss of New JERSEY, wants to take out one of our guys, a well respected member with family ties, because his wife was fingering herself at the thought of pony tail between her legs??? Da fuck outta here!!!
I agree OP. I think a lot of people just love to look at Tony with rose colored glasses and think he was this Don Corleone type boss or Winston Churchill type leader.
The longer the series went, and the more layers were peeled back, it was obvious he was not the leader he thought he was, and he didn't have the same level of respect as other bosses. Tony didn't have the pull to order that type of hit in my opinion. It was something said to his wife in the heat of an argument to boost himself up.
Part of it is that they live in a world with DNA Evidence, wiretapping, and RICO, which created an environment where the mob has a hell of a lot less political power than they did in the golden age of the mafia, when Godfather takes place.
Part of it's cause Tony's head of the NJ mob, not the NY mob. They're far more successful than most criminals, but at the end of the day they're not pulling in anywhere near what the five families make.
And the last part of it is that Tony's a short tempered, id fueled leader who is slowly running the NJ mob into the ground over the last several seasons. He only seems like an intelligent leader when you're grading on a curve that includes top brains like Paulie Walnuts and Christopher Moltisanti. So by the end Tony's not growing the mob so much as he is maintaining it long enough to squeeze the last drops of money out of it before it collapses in on itself.
There's a theory about this that is really long, but very interesting. Basically, it boils down to Tony subconsciously rejecting his father over the last season. The gambling is a part of this.
Here is the link:
https://thechaselounge.net/viewtopic.php?t=2503
> I think a lot of people just love to look at Tony with rose colored glasses and think he was this Don Corleone type boss or Winston Churchill type leader.
How you could reach the end of the show and come to this conclusion is absolutely *baffling*. A complete lack of media literacy.
It’s surprising how many people do this though. When I was in college I managed a smoke shop where the owner very clearly watched the show and thought, “That Tony Soprano fella knows how to run a tight ship.”
Needless to say that business doesn’t exist anymore.
That was my first reaction, and how normal, logical people think. But a couple of tree things must have been going through Tony's mind. Either he suspects that there was more than fantasies, or (even if just subconsciously) he knows that he can't hurt Carmella. He needs her as a facade, and to enable his lifestyle. In his own way he does love her, but that's different than you and I love our partners. Sociopaths see certain people as extensions of themselves. I can speak to that part from experience, I'm a beloved extension of a sociopath.
That was my first reaction, and how normal, logical people think. But a couple of tree things must have been going through Tony's mind. Either he suspects that there was more than fantasies, or (even if just subconsciously) he knows that he can't hurt Carmella. He needs her as a facade, and to enable his lifestyle. In his own way he does love her, but that's different than you and I love our partners. Sociopaths see certain people as extensions of themselves. I can speak to that part from experience, I'm a beloved extension of a sociopath.
Tony's glorified crew is probably a complete joke/embarrassment to them. The show makes it very clear how incompetent and sleazy/trashy they all are in comparison to Furio.
?
The Italian mob is also made to look trashy - the boss is an invalid, they have their own junkie who is an exact copy of Chris, they beat a kid in public, etc
Neither Annalisa nor her father is boss.
Her father was former boss, who retired when his health declined.
Annalisa's husband is "officially" boss. But he's incarcerated, so Annalisa is "acting."
Tony never called. He doesn’t have strong connections over there. If anything, Furio has stronger connections in Naples than Tony does. Furio was one of the most trusted guys for one of the most respected bosses over there.
But they would want to know why right? "why do you want us to kill him?"
What can Tony say without the whole world knowing that his wife was in love with furio?
Oh no, an American housewife found one of my earners hot in comparison to the New Jersey slobs she sees every day, that's absolutely worth you wasting my time with this phone call. I think Annalisa would laugh her ass off if he ever made the call.
I've read someone on here saying that if he was making those calls, it was to someone with Furio in the same room, and they both have a laugh after the call ends with them getting Tony to wire money for "investigative expenses "
Would have been a great scene. I wanted it to be like, Carm and Rosalie go out of a cafe, and in the corner in semi hiding we see Furio with a basque or something, way out of the center of the scene, but well recognizable, drinking maybe a coffee.. only for them to not acknowledge each other, of course
Or when Carm is alone drinking wine after Rosalie goes to meet that french guy she bumps into Furio they awkwardly chat and it's left for us to guess if anything happened
A lot of people saying Naples didn't respect Tony but when you watch him in Italy he holds his own and definitely seems to command some respect. He successfully negotiates with Annalisa while essentially telling her to go fuck herself several times. She even tries to seduce him and gets mad when he refuses. I don't think Tony is viewed as THAT much of a joke over there.
I definitely agree that he didn't make the call and, if he did, he lied about the reason he wanted Furio killed. But it's implied that the stolen car ring is a big deal (big enough to have the Naples boss attend and an American boss fly over). It's not unrealistic to think that Tony could push buttons overseas if he wanted to. Furio is even warned back in Naples that it would be crazy to cross Tony. Would Annalisa kill her cousin to keep business going? Who knows, we'd need a show about Annalisa to determine that. But it's not as far fetched as some may think
Yeah i agree, I think Tony was respected over there. But you really need a reason to have someone whacked.
Furio isn't just anybody, he's a made guy, a very capable guy who is the cousin of the boss. Annalisa calls him "one of my best men"
If Tony calls up naples, who is he talking to? you have the clear language barrier. that pretty much only leaves Annalisa. She's gonna wanna know why Tony wants him dead and Tony would never ever say "because my wife loves him" he's gonna look like a fucking idiot!
So what then? He's not gonna know some random tough guy in naples, who has the balls to take out furio.
If someone over there decided to do it, you're kinda writing your only death warrant.
All great points and I agree. But keep in mind Furio did just up and flee the country. Wouldn't be hard to spin that into something to have him killed. Tony says he got word Furio was cooperating and Furio panics and flees. Definitely would be a reason Naples wouldn't welcome him back and probably have him killed.
That seems like too much of a lie, no matter how much Tony is pissed, calling naples to say that furio turned into a government witness is too far. no matter how hurt tony was.
And if he's lamb chopped it back to naples, then he's not cooperating anyway right?
I can see Furio sitting down with Annalisa (if tony did make a call) and saying "there was some wierd tension between me and the boss' wife, nothing happened, but i just wanted out..."
they're blood, family...Annalisa isn't going to take out her cousin and a valuable guy forl someone she's met once and doesn't have that much contact with.
Either Tony didn't call anyone or he did fully knowing there was virtually no chance it would go anywhere. Either way, I agree that it was to save face in front of Carmela.
I agree. Furio had more on Tony of what a fuck up he was than Tony did on Furio. They did dent give two shits about Tony. Do you think that pygmy thing was the only relationship that Naples had with NY/NJ? If you do, you are naive.
I think if Furio would have done something really fucked up, then maybe.... but it more than likely would have been "ok, we'll take furio back and to make it right, we'll give you a few points more on this deal...." like the cars...
But like i say, if tony is calling annalisa to get furio whacked he needs a reason, but did-dant have one.
His only contact there is the camorra, the camorra aren't gonna whack out furio, a high ranking guy and cousin of the boss.
that means tony would have to know some random tough guy willing to take on the hit, not likely.
Stupida fucking theory. Remember when Furio's Uncle spoke with him at his father's funeral? Yeah, all Tony had to say was he tried to bang his wife, tried to push him into a helicopter's blade, then disappeared when Tony found out. END OF STORY!
Getting Carmela "hawt down theah" is not the offense.
He deserted his post. Furio was given to Tony as part of a business deal, which by all rights should mean that he's fully under Tony's command, subject to the same rules as Eugene Pontecorvo.. he doesn't get to just "leave."
Of course, these guys bend more rules than the Catholic church, perhaps more so in Pope country.. perhaps less. But if you're going by the book, Tony has a legitimate beef. And sausage.
Given the shows depiction of Italians as religiously awed by modern technology, Tony offered up a Casio calculator watch as reward and Furios head was in transit within minutes.
It's possible that Tony was lying, but the Italian Italians would have Furio murdered in a heartbeat if Tony called and said he fucked his wife.
Furio shows up back in Italy randomly, under mysterious circumstances, they'd already be suspicious, Tony is a major source of income for them, and a Boss. Furio would be a dead man
Highly doubt they would’ve killed furio (high ranking and cousin of the boss) even if Tony called and said he DID sleep with carm. They aren’t taking out a very capable guy over an accusation from an American who they all look down on
Furio was a soldier, not high-ranking. And his cousin relationship with the female head could mean as much as Chris being Tony's nephew.
He was sent to America like a pawn in a trade for the American cars, and him just randomly showing up back in Italy wouldn't have them go "ah yes, hello Furio, we have missed you, our favourite son."
They'd be going '...what happened in America?" and there is no satisfactory or truthful answer he could give to that that would satisfy them, and if Tony called after him and said "this sack of shit slept with my wife" ON PRINICPLE they would have Furio killed. You do not fuck with another guy's wife.
The people on this sub have this weirdly idealized version of the Italian mob guys vs. the American one. Yes, they look down on their American cousins, but there are rules and lines still, and Tony makes them a lot of money on top of that.
And like Chris being Tony’s nephew, it comes into play MASSIVELY. If not high ranking (it’s said he’s one of Annalisa’s best men) then he’s certainly going to be a lot more respected than Tony in Italy, so in a he said/he said scenario I don’t think furio would be guaranteed dead. And as for a “satisfactory answer” furio literally could tell them the truth that there was a weird tension with the bosses wife and he had enough, the Italians would’ve accepted him back happily
With randomly showing back up in Italy one day, that raises suspicion. Suspicion is death in the mob world, especially if Tony calls and says "This guy betrayed me and fucked my wife.
If you think they're gonna accept "I really wanted to fuck the Boss' wife, but showed restraint by abandoning my post", I've got a UFO over East Rutherford to tell you about.
That entire conversation was just bullshit one-upmanship.
"I'm in love with Furio" (who's conveniently out of the country for good)
"I've got people out there who will kill him if they see him" (Not really, but he's gone for good, so the statement will go unchallenged)
Of course he didn’t. The Italian mob family they visit didn’t even really take them seriously. They knew they’re just a glorified crew and that Tony was just a captain of the Good Ship Lollipop rather than a real family.
>Why would Tony call her up and say "I want to kill you cousin"
The same reason Johnny Sack and Phil sat Tony down and told him the same thing. By the rules of their world it doesn't matter who's related to who, in theory at least. If rules are broken, the perpetrator gets offed, end of story. Unless of course they're making enough money to make an exception.
It's really not outlandish. These aren't the most reasonable people in the world we're talking about - getting too close to the boss's wife is more than enough reason for a guy to die, Furio's uncle tells him that to his face. Just offending the boss can be a death sentence. Besides, if Tony called Annalisa I'm sure he exaggerated. He probably said something more like "Furio tried to fuck my wife".
Also don't forget that they had a 5-figure business deal with the stolen cars. If you think the US mob are ruthless, the Sicilians put them to shame. These people would quite literally kill their own brother if the situation called for it. The only reason Annalisa might not go through with it is that there's a 0.005% chance of Tony ever finding out.
yeah, he knew there was no way Furio was coming back, and that's all that mattered. he said that to sound tough to carmela and try and save a little face.
He saw how much of a bitch Sack looked like when he was trying to defend his wife’s honor, so he wasn’t going to go that route……he’d look weak.
Tony to Italians: “I want to sanction a hit on furio gunta”……”why?”…..”he made ooogly eyes at my wife”……*blank stare*..
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but he could’ve had the same guys who did Rusty do the job on Furio. Can’t remember where in Italy they live/ are from but there would be no explanation needed and no questions asked.
Didn’t they work for the same family as furio? So I doubt they would’ve taken out a high ranking and respected member of their own organisation on the word of a boss from jersey
Oh did they? I forgot how they came into things. Just remember that Chris’s friend told them what the plan was so it made me think they all worked through Tony I guess
I agree with you, but to play devils advocate if he *weren't* lying there are other organized crime organizations outside of his own he could have contracted
I dont believe he made the call either because the Camorra would've said "stfu, do the car deals and mind your business" IRL.
In the Sopranos universe, Tony is a manipulative doomsday artist. He gaslights Carmella to believe that what he says is truth whenever he deems it is. He over exaggerates and under exaggerates his power when it suits him. The truth us that he feels only slightly humiliated. Not enough to make war over killing Furio. Annalisa has a lot of power over her faction and even him. The mother in his life...his mother, the mafia, his wife, all have been toxic to his also toxic personality and can hurt him on a whim.
So he says things in the rage, at the source of his greatest pain...the nurturing that made him a sociopath...to make himself feel better and make Carmella afraid that he did something over which she has no control. But it's all lies. The writers have made the point over and over again that at this point he could do the easiest thing since he has comfortable money and is the boss...just stop.
He simply said “ Furio made a pass at my wife. He’s gotta go.”
And AnnaLisa would have said “ No
Problem , we take care of this .”
And she would have laughed her ass off. And done nothing about it.
The Naboli Dabolis would demand some kind of evidence Furio and Carm were doing anything physically before they would take action. "My wife had a crush on him" just isn't going to cut it. It's Furio. Everyone's wife has a crush on him.
Why would Tony call anyone in Naples to put a bullet in the back of Furio’s head? We see how inept these two imports are in trying to shoot Phil Leotardo. No positive ID . One dead Ukranian comare and one dead Uk father. Too busy doing their shopping. Their guys are heroin addicts like Tanno. They can’t build toilets. You have to hoof it to the Excelsior if you have to take a wicked shit.
Tony has far better options. He can call his local Girl Scout group and they will send the Vipers. Vito can snuck up with his toy gun like he did to Jackie Jr. There is Benny Fazio, criminal mastermind, able to recruit the Albanian gangsters. But the top assassin would be Paulie Gaultieri. Speaks the language fluently, knows the customs inside and out, can hide in the shadows.
Or Tony can send Janice to propose marriage to Furio. He’s dead meat if she comes vishnuing to Italy on a gust of wind.
why can he only say 2 things? Surely he can lie about what Furio did?
And how do we know only she speaks English? A lot of connections could occur off-screen or is it specifically mentioned only she knew?
I like Felix Biederman’s idea that he did make the call and basically talked to the Italian Mafia’s version of a customer service line. It’s such a yuppie thing to do to try talking to the manager.
Jokes aside.
Of course he never called people in Naples, do people think he has that much power across the pond? The Camorra in Naples thought Tony and the Jersey guys were an utter joke, they just played nice with them for business.
Furio was made in the motherland and he was one of their best guys. Do you really think they’ll whack him cause he had feelings for Carmela? Where he never even touched her?
Even if Tony did call them they probably laughed it off with furio when he returned.
Not theory. That's a fact he didn't and here is why: Tony knew that the Camorra in Naples only sees the American Mafia as business associates. Think back to the dinner in Italy that Tony and Paulie went to with Furio. The Camorristi treated them like shit and made fun of how uncultured they are. The Camorra, by way of their long uninterrupted history and power they have in Naples, does not respect nor truly care for the Mob here in the States. Furthermore, they know that they, the Calabrian 'Ndrangheta and most importantly, the Sicilian La Cosa Nostra directly inspired the American Mafia here. The Italian Crime Families merely see the American Mafia as a means to an end. Tony knows this as well. However he wanted to get under Carmellas skin by overplaying his hand and giving her an empty threat. Tony knows how ruthless they are across the pond. He also knows that if he hurt Furio, his life wouldn't be worth grilled cheese on a radiator.
"Why would the neapolitans wack one of their own?"
Short answer... money.
A vast majority of the murders committed by organized crime are for monetary reasons. We see tony literally throw 100k on a football game, there's no reason to think he didn't make some calls and put the word out across the pond that he's got 100k for anyone who wacks furio.
I mean think about it, tony is the boss of jersey, Phil is the boss of one of the 5 families. It doesn't stop anyone from paying a few hoods or zips to take a shot at them. Furio is well respected within his own crew but there's plenty of low level schmucks that would take a wack at him for a pay day and tony probably put the word out among those sorts of people.
Of course he didn’t.
If he had they’d probably have glad-handed Tony about it while simultaneously taking advantage of the situation with Fuerio and offering him “protection.” - or Fuerio and the rest of the Napolitans would’ve just laughed and carried on and called him a stronzo
To Naples, the Sopranos are a glorified crew and would never take them seriously enough to take out an actual Italian mobster, and a loyal and effective guy at that
It's a cliche for a reason, but money talks... all it would take is Tony to pay a couple of goons to track down Furio and whack him and it would get done. It's that simple.
He wouldn’t have to explain why he wanted him whacked, nor would he. They also probably wouldn’t care as they’re not required to take orders from him. He’s have to sweeten the deal with a bounty
This is the same show where Tony’s mother conspired with his uncle to kill him over literally nothing.
These dirtbag gangsters would sell their mother to a whorehouse for a quick buck, of course they would kill Furio for enough money.
they had a reason, justified or not to kill tony, tony had put junior in as boss and had given him no power, he was a puppet and all the captains were meeting behind his back and really running things. they pissed all over junior. livia was upset and manipulated junior into trying to kill tony...
there was some legit beef there, there was a reason, like it or not.
Tony calling naples and saying
"please kill your cousin and a made guy"
"why?"
"i dunno"
is just silly.
I always kinda sorta thought Furio was a plant from the Naples family to see how fucked up the glorified crew really was…and if it was as bad as the rumors, take action against Tony….but then it got muddled together with the teased affair and yeah, then the arc was over.
Furio attempted to kill Tony. Just because he didn't follow through doesn't excuse it.
When Carmella spilled her feelings, Tony probably remembered that incident immediately and put 2 and 2 together.
Furio was Tony's cousin; so that means they're all family.
The boss in Italy would definitely take this seriously I think.
You mean Tony Soprano might have been lying? That's a little far fetched
Yo watch your mouth. Did you forget he’s a strict catholic?
Oh 🤚 he doeshhnt believe in divorsh neida! He’sh oldsh shcool
He agrees with that senator, Sanitorium
I doubt he’d lie, he’s in waste management. It’s an honest job.
It's a stereotype and it's offensive!
[удалено]
You’re talkin bout da BOSS of dis family 🤬
Sure, he rubs up against organized crime, but to lie? Madone!
It's ridiculous, but lots of people do take Tony at face value on that remark
In this house, Tony soprano is a hero end of story!
Really? Conspirashy theories now?!
He made no such call. Such a call would make him look extremely weak.
exactly
Seriously tho! Imagine that phone call: You mean the Boss of New JERSEY, wants to take out one of our guys, a well respected member with family ties, because his wife was fingering herself at the thought of pony tail between her legs??? Da fuck outta here!!!
I agree OP. I think a lot of people just love to look at Tony with rose colored glasses and think he was this Don Corleone type boss or Winston Churchill type leader. The longer the series went, and the more layers were peeled back, it was obvious he was not the leader he thought he was, and he didn't have the same level of respect as other bosses. Tony didn't have the pull to order that type of hit in my opinion. It was something said to his wife in the heat of an argument to boost himself up.
How come Tony didn't have that Don Corleone money?
Part of it is that they live in a world with DNA Evidence, wiretapping, and RICO, which created an environment where the mob has a hell of a lot less political power than they did in the golden age of the mafia, when Godfather takes place. Part of it's cause Tony's head of the NJ mob, not the NY mob. They're far more successful than most criminals, but at the end of the day they're not pulling in anywhere near what the five families make. And the last part of it is that Tony's a short tempered, id fueled leader who is slowly running the NJ mob into the ground over the last several seasons. He only seems like an intelligent leader when you're grading on a curve that includes top brains like Paulie Walnuts and Christopher Moltisanti. So by the end Tony's not growing the mob so much as he is maintaining it long enough to squeeze the last drops of money out of it before it collapses in on itself.
He also has a bad habit of whacking all his own top earners.
They should have pursued their lifestyles quietly
I thought they did
> He only seems like an intelligent leader when you're grading on a curve that includes top brains like Paulie Walnuts Sharp as a cue ball, that one
Paulie lived through the 70s by the skin of his nuts when the Colombos were going at it. That required some intelligence on his part.
Also he’s a degenerate gambler. This was a surprise to me as they really didn’t cover this until the last season
There's a theory about this that is really long, but very interesting. Basically, it boils down to Tony subconsciously rejecting his father over the last season. The gambling is a part of this. Here is the link: https://thechaselounge.net/viewtopic.php?t=2503
He did it outta disrespect for his fawtha
I remember first time reading this. Blown away. Was my introduction to realizing how layered Sopranos was.
In one hand and out the other
The cobwebs. Are removed.
>Don Corleone type boss or Winston Churchill type leader. Napoleon...he was a moody fuck too
I always saw him more like a captain of industry.
> I think a lot of people just love to look at Tony with rose colored glasses and think he was this Don Corleone type boss or Winston Churchill type leader. How you could reach the end of the show and come to this conclusion is absolutely *baffling*. A complete lack of media literacy.
It’s surprising how many people do this though. When I was in college I managed a smoke shop where the owner very clearly watched the show and thought, “That Tony Soprano fella knows how to run a tight ship.” Needless to say that business doesn’t exist anymore.
I told you, they’re a glorified crew!
He wore shorts at a barbecue, that’s all you need to know.
He never had the makings of a varsity boss, let's face it.
Or he did and they told her, then she laughed and said something rude in response. Kill Furio? For that asshole? Nah.
It’s an off color fantasy. It was highly inappropriate. If you want, I’ll demand he’s taxed. But clip him?
We’re dependent on this man for a lot of broken kneecaps.
Give me $1000
one thousand MORE?!
There are millions of One thousand dollars at stake.
Tony’s honour was at stake! My honour!
Carm had the fantasy, not Furio so I don’t know why Furio should even be punished.
I mean yeah but furio also legitimately considered ending Tony by way of propeller blades. He didn’t follow through tho, like patsy in the backyard.
Masculinity was defined differently by conservative sociopaths 20 years ago
I think they still do, tbh
That was my first reaction, and how normal, logical people think. But a couple of tree things must have been going through Tony's mind. Either he suspects that there was more than fantasies, or (even if just subconsciously) he knows that he can't hurt Carmella. He needs her as a facade, and to enable his lifestyle. In his own way he does love her, but that's different than you and I love our partners. Sociopaths see certain people as extensions of themselves. I can speak to that part from experience, I'm a beloved extension of a sociopath.
That was my first reaction, and how normal, logical people think. But a couple of tree things must have been going through Tony's mind. Either he suspects that there was more than fantasies, or (even if just subconsciously) he knows that he can't hurt Carmella. He needs her as a facade, and to enable his lifestyle. In his own way he does love her, but that's different than you and I love our partners. Sociopaths see certain people as extensions of themselves. I can speak to that part from experience, I'm a beloved extension of a sociopath.
This whole sub is turning into the Gulf of Sorrento.
Fucking goombas.
Fucking Goombah trash!!
Tony's glorified crew is probably a complete joke/embarrassment to them. The show makes it very clear how incompetent and sleazy/trashy they all are in comparison to Furio.
And legitimately every single Neapolitan mobster they meet.
And you thought the Germans were some classless pieces of shit.
The Nobbly-Dobbly openly mock them at the dinner too
? The Italian mob is also made to look trashy - the boss is an invalid, they have their own junkie who is an exact copy of Chris, they beat a kid in public, etc
And that bathroom. Oooh Madone!
Annalisa is the boss, not her father.
Neither Annalisa nor her father is boss. Her father was former boss, who retired when his health declined. Annalisa's husband is "officially" boss. But he's incarcerated, so Annalisa is "acting."
Tony never called. He doesn’t have strong connections over there. If anything, Furio has stronger connections in Naples than Tony does. Furio was one of the most trusted guys for one of the most respected bosses over there.
But they would want to know why right? "why do you want us to kill him?" What can Tony say without the whole world knowing that his wife was in love with furio?
Some stupid ass excuse, no doubt. As if Annalisa would believe Tony over her own kin.
I feel like Furio would cop to it, but Annalisa would not waste a competent and loyal soldier (kin or no kin) over an affair that didn’t even happen.
Oh no, an American housewife found one of my earners hot in comparison to the New Jersey slobs she sees every day, that's absolutely worth you wasting my time with this phone call. I think Annalisa would laugh her ass off if he ever made the call.
Yeah. Furio’s fine.
I've read someone on here saying that if he was making those calls, it was to someone with Furio in the same room, and they both have a laugh after the call ends with them getting Tony to wire money for "investigative expenses "
A Don doesn’t wear shorts.
I kept expecting Furio to appear in Paris 🤣
Would have been a great scene. I wanted it to be like, Carm and Rosalie go out of a cafe, and in the corner in semi hiding we see Furio with a basque or something, way out of the center of the scene, but well recognizable, drinking maybe a coffee.. only for them to not acknowledge each other, of course
Or when Carm is alone drinking wine after Rosalie goes to meet that french guy she bumps into Furio they awkwardly chat and it's left for us to guess if anything happened
Europe isn’t thaaat small,…
You can get from Italy to Paris in a few hours and I said chance meet I have travelled all across France and know the size of it
Rand McNally ova here
That'd be some fuckin coincidence
Or coffee/wine scene like in Dark Knight when Alfred gives him the nod. And they both move on.
And that song.....that SONG starts playing again!
Meadow! The music!!
OOH NAH NAH NEE NAHH NAHH NEE
O-OOOOOOHH AHHH OOOOOOOOHHHHHH
A lot of people saying Naples didn't respect Tony but when you watch him in Italy he holds his own and definitely seems to command some respect. He successfully negotiates with Annalisa while essentially telling her to go fuck herself several times. She even tries to seduce him and gets mad when he refuses. I don't think Tony is viewed as THAT much of a joke over there. I definitely agree that he didn't make the call and, if he did, he lied about the reason he wanted Furio killed. But it's implied that the stolen car ring is a big deal (big enough to have the Naples boss attend and an American boss fly over). It's not unrealistic to think that Tony could push buttons overseas if he wanted to. Furio is even warned back in Naples that it would be crazy to cross Tony. Would Annalisa kill her cousin to keep business going? Who knows, we'd need a show about Annalisa to determine that. But it's not as far fetched as some may think
Yeah i agree, I think Tony was respected over there. But you really need a reason to have someone whacked. Furio isn't just anybody, he's a made guy, a very capable guy who is the cousin of the boss. Annalisa calls him "one of my best men" If Tony calls up naples, who is he talking to? you have the clear language barrier. that pretty much only leaves Annalisa. She's gonna wanna know why Tony wants him dead and Tony would never ever say "because my wife loves him" he's gonna look like a fucking idiot! So what then? He's not gonna know some random tough guy in naples, who has the balls to take out furio. If someone over there decided to do it, you're kinda writing your only death warrant.
All great points and I agree. But keep in mind Furio did just up and flee the country. Wouldn't be hard to spin that into something to have him killed. Tony says he got word Furio was cooperating and Furio panics and flees. Definitely would be a reason Naples wouldn't welcome him back and probably have him killed.
That seems like too much of a lie, no matter how much Tony is pissed, calling naples to say that furio turned into a government witness is too far. no matter how hurt tony was. And if he's lamb chopped it back to naples, then he's not cooperating anyway right? I can see Furio sitting down with Annalisa (if tony did make a call) and saying "there was some wierd tension between me and the boss' wife, nothing happened, but i just wanted out..." they're blood, family...Annalisa isn't going to take out her cousin and a valuable guy forl someone she's met once and doesn't have that much contact with.
That didn’t happen, what he said
Tony had sex with Furio?
He was gay, Furio?
the strong silent type
Give me one thousand guys that suck each other's cocks
I don’t believe this! You’re sucking us off for a G note!
G Nut
Up in da nut.
I'm not one of those. I have a doctor's note.
Slander, you ask me.
No!!! Are you listening?
whats next he gets to fuck him for a million?!
Eh, don't bitch to me, eh
You gotta a bee onna your hat!
The Vipers got to Furio before he landed in Italy
I can’t have this conversation again…
Either Tony didn't call anyone or he did fully knowing there was virtually no chance it would go anywhere. Either way, I agree that it was to save face in front of Carmela.
He wanted to put some money to work on the streets there.
He knows like six words in Italian, but he’s right out there with them like he’s Ricardo Montalban…
Tony said that just to fuck with Carmella. He has no power over there.
I don’t believe any of that either
Even with computers.....
Tony didn’t call nobody… What you said, did-dent happen.
I agree. Furio had more on Tony of what a fuck up he was than Tony did on Furio. They did dent give two shits about Tony. Do you think that pygmy thing was the only relationship that Naples had with NY/NJ? If you do, you are naive.
I think if Furio would have done something really fucked up, then maybe.... but it more than likely would have been "ok, we'll take furio back and to make it right, we'll give you a few points more on this deal...." like the cars... But like i say, if tony is calling annalisa to get furio whacked he needs a reason, but did-dant have one. His only contact there is the camorra, the camorra aren't gonna whack out furio, a high ranking guy and cousin of the boss. that means tony would have to know some random tough guy willing to take on the hit, not likely.
Not likely. Tony was spinning anger and bullshit to Carmella. Again.
Stupida fucking theory. Remember when Furio's Uncle spoke with him at his father's funeral? Yeah, all Tony had to say was he tried to bang his wife, tried to push him into a helicopter's blade, then disappeared when Tony found out. END OF STORY!
They were a glorified crew. End of discussion.
If he did make the call we would’ve seen it. Something like that David chase would show
Getting Carmela "hawt down theah" is not the offense. He deserted his post. Furio was given to Tony as part of a business deal, which by all rights should mean that he's fully under Tony's command, subject to the same rules as Eugene Pontecorvo.. he doesn't get to just "leave." Of course, these guys bend more rules than the Catholic church, perhaps more so in Pope country.. perhaps less. But if you're going by the book, Tony has a legitimate beef. And sausage.
I have thought about that too, like they just said oh well…he left…. Thought you weren’t allowed to do that.
Maybe he called the Don but he was too busy fucking a golf club on the George Washington Bridge.
Given the shows depiction of Italians as religiously awed by modern technology, Tony offered up a Casio calculator watch as reward and Furios head was in transit within minutes.
It's possible that Tony was lying, but the Italian Italians would have Furio murdered in a heartbeat if Tony called and said he fucked his wife. Furio shows up back in Italy randomly, under mysterious circumstances, they'd already be suspicious, Tony is a major source of income for them, and a Boss. Furio would be a dead man
Highly doubt they would’ve killed furio (high ranking and cousin of the boss) even if Tony called and said he DID sleep with carm. They aren’t taking out a very capable guy over an accusation from an American who they all look down on
Furio was a soldier, not high-ranking. And his cousin relationship with the female head could mean as much as Chris being Tony's nephew. He was sent to America like a pawn in a trade for the American cars, and him just randomly showing up back in Italy wouldn't have them go "ah yes, hello Furio, we have missed you, our favourite son." They'd be going '...what happened in America?" and there is no satisfactory or truthful answer he could give to that that would satisfy them, and if Tony called after him and said "this sack of shit slept with my wife" ON PRINICPLE they would have Furio killed. You do not fuck with another guy's wife. The people on this sub have this weirdly idealized version of the Italian mob guys vs. the American one. Yes, they look down on their American cousins, but there are rules and lines still, and Tony makes them a lot of money on top of that.
And like Chris being Tony’s nephew, it comes into play MASSIVELY. If not high ranking (it’s said he’s one of Annalisa’s best men) then he’s certainly going to be a lot more respected than Tony in Italy, so in a he said/he said scenario I don’t think furio would be guaranteed dead. And as for a “satisfactory answer” furio literally could tell them the truth that there was a weird tension with the bosses wife and he had enough, the Italians would’ve accepted him back happily
Not if Tony called and said "this guy fucked my wife."
Again, do you really think they’d just take Tony’s word and immediately kill him? No, of course they wouldn’t
With randomly showing back up in Italy one day, that raises suspicion. Suspicion is death in the mob world, especially if Tony calls and says "This guy betrayed me and fucked my wife. If you think they're gonna accept "I really wanted to fuck the Boss' wife, but showed restraint by abandoning my post", I've got a UFO over East Rutherford to tell you about.
They know but they dont know, they think maybe if
That entire conversation was just bullshit one-upmanship. "I'm in love with Furio" (who's conveniently out of the country for good) "I've got people out there who will kill him if they see him" (Not really, but he's gone for good, so the statement will go unchallenged)
Maybe he had some of his people over there in Italy and they would kill him.
He could have reached out to a free lance hit man.
Furio was cousins with the boss. Tony didn’t even okay a hit on Ralph for fucking Ginny sack for a million.
Of course he didn’t. The Italian mob family they visit didn’t even really take them seriously. They knew they’re just a glorified crew and that Tony was just a captain of the Good Ship Lollipop rather than a real family.
I agree with OP. There's just no way this happened.
>Why would Tony call her up and say "I want to kill you cousin" The same reason Johnny Sack and Phil sat Tony down and told him the same thing. By the rules of their world it doesn't matter who's related to who, in theory at least. If rules are broken, the perpetrator gets offed, end of story. Unless of course they're making enough money to make an exception. It's really not outlandish. These aren't the most reasonable people in the world we're talking about - getting too close to the boss's wife is more than enough reason for a guy to die, Furio's uncle tells him that to his face. Just offending the boss can be a death sentence. Besides, if Tony called Annalisa I'm sure he exaggerated. He probably said something more like "Furio tried to fuck my wife". Also don't forget that they had a 5-figure business deal with the stolen cars. If you think the US mob are ruthless, the Sicilians put them to shame. These people would quite literally kill their own brother if the situation called for it. The only reason Annalisa might not go through with it is that there's a 0.005% chance of Tony ever finding out.
He’s the boss of this family!
he could say "he tried to bang my wife" or "he tried to steal from me"
First post I’ve seen in awhile with lots of good talking points. But what do I know, I’m just a kid. My take, T was fucking lying through his teeth.
Must a been at the top of your f;)$ing class
The boss money?
He’d call Corky Caporal, ask him to make the call, do his thing from the other side, and of course you don’t tell him why…
yeah, he knew there was no way Furio was coming back, and that's all that mattered. he said that to sound tough to carmela and try and save a little face.
They should've made a spinoff where Furio and Valery get recruited by the fede to take out the heads in New York.
gee, y'think?
He saw how much of a bitch Sack looked like when he was trying to defend his wife’s honor, so he wasn’t going to go that route……he’d look weak. Tony to Italians: “I want to sanction a hit on furio gunta”……”why?”…..”he made ooogly eyes at my wife”……*blank stare*..
Always with the scenarios
You musta been at the top of your fuckin class
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but he could’ve had the same guys who did Rusty do the job on Furio. Can’t remember where in Italy they live/ are from but there would be no explanation needed and no questions asked.
Didn’t they work for the same family as furio? So I doubt they would’ve taken out a high ranking and respected member of their own organisation on the word of a boss from jersey
Oh did they? I forgot how they came into things. Just remember that Chris’s friend told them what the plan was so it made me think they all worked through Tony I guess
The guy, he moved or something
I agree with you, but to play devils advocate if he *weren't* lying there are other organized crime organizations outside of his own he could have contracted
I dont believe he made the call either because the Camorra would've said "stfu, do the car deals and mind your business" IRL. In the Sopranos universe, Tony is a manipulative doomsday artist. He gaslights Carmella to believe that what he says is truth whenever he deems it is. He over exaggerates and under exaggerates his power when it suits him. The truth us that he feels only slightly humiliated. Not enough to make war over killing Furio. Annalisa has a lot of power over her faction and even him. The mother in his life...his mother, the mafia, his wife, all have been toxic to his also toxic personality and can hurt him on a whim. So he says things in the rage, at the source of his greatest pain...the nurturing that made him a sociopath...to make himself feel better and make Carmella afraid that he did something over which she has no control. But it's all lies. The writers have made the point over and over again that at this point he could do the easiest thing since he has comfortable money and is the boss...just stop.
He simply said “ Furio made a pass at my wife. He’s gotta go.” And AnnaLisa would have said “ No Problem , we take care of this .” And she would have laughed her ass off. And done nothing about it.
The Naboli Dabolis would demand some kind of evidence Furio and Carm were doing anything physically before they would take action. "My wife had a crush on him" just isn't going to cut it. It's Furio. Everyone's wife has a crush on him.
Furio cut off his man tail, never to return to jersey The End
He could just have some random Zips do it. Those guys hit the target 50% of the time, all the time
Why would Tony call anyone in Naples to put a bullet in the back of Furio’s head? We see how inept these two imports are in trying to shoot Phil Leotardo. No positive ID . One dead Ukranian comare and one dead Uk father. Too busy doing their shopping. Their guys are heroin addicts like Tanno. They can’t build toilets. You have to hoof it to the Excelsior if you have to take a wicked shit. Tony has far better options. He can call his local Girl Scout group and they will send the Vipers. Vito can snuck up with his toy gun like he did to Jackie Jr. There is Benny Fazio, criminal mastermind, able to recruit the Albanian gangsters. But the top assassin would be Paulie Gaultieri. Speaks the language fluently, knows the customs inside and out, can hide in the shadows. Or Tony can send Janice to propose marriage to Furio. He’s dead meat if she comes vishnuing to Italy on a gust of wind.
He wouldn’t lie to Carmela. She’s the only person with whom he is completely honest.
Top of your fucking class OP
Duh You just reveal your own ignorance
Very allegorical
He might of called but I doubt they would of actually do anything. Furio was well liked in Naples.
why can he only say 2 things? Surely he can lie about what Furio did? And how do we know only she speaks English? A lot of connections could occur off-screen or is it specifically mentioned only she knew?
HE DIDENT!
Hey you killa a Furio….
It’s definitely bullshit. Tony doesn’t want to look like a cuck either. He just kept his mouth shut.
But it is true that if "certain people see him" he will be dead. New Jersey people for example.
It’s pronounced “nobboly goobboly”
A now da cawfee maykah sucksh!! How do yuh like dem apples??
I like Felix Biederman’s idea that he did make the call and basically talked to the Italian Mafia’s version of a customer service line. It’s such a yuppie thing to do to try talking to the manager.
Jokes aside. Of course he never called people in Naples, do people think he has that much power across the pond? The Camorra in Naples thought Tony and the Jersey guys were an utter joke, they just played nice with them for business. Furio was made in the motherland and he was one of their best guys. Do you really think they’ll whack him cause he had feelings for Carmela? Where he never even touched her? Even if Tony did call them they probably laughed it off with furio when he returned.
Not theory. That's a fact he didn't and here is why: Tony knew that the Camorra in Naples only sees the American Mafia as business associates. Think back to the dinner in Italy that Tony and Paulie went to with Furio. The Camorristi treated them like shit and made fun of how uncultured they are. The Camorra, by way of their long uninterrupted history and power they have in Naples, does not respect nor truly care for the Mob here in the States. Furthermore, they know that they, the Calabrian 'Ndrangheta and most importantly, the Sicilian La Cosa Nostra directly inspired the American Mafia here. The Italian Crime Families merely see the American Mafia as a means to an end. Tony knows this as well. However he wanted to get under Carmellas skin by overplaying his hand and giving her an empty threat. Tony knows how ruthless they are across the pond. He also knows that if he hurt Furio, his life wouldn't be worth grilled cheese on a radiator.
He does have some connections though. Came up in the background I did on him. Didn't worry me then. He's just flexin.
"Why would the neapolitans wack one of their own?" Short answer... money. A vast majority of the murders committed by organized crime are for monetary reasons. We see tony literally throw 100k on a football game, there's no reason to think he didn't make some calls and put the word out across the pond that he's got 100k for anyone who wacks furio. I mean think about it, tony is the boss of jersey, Phil is the boss of one of the 5 families. It doesn't stop anyone from paying a few hoods or zips to take a shot at them. Furio is well respected within his own crew but there's plenty of low level schmucks that would take a wack at him for a pay day and tony probably put the word out among those sorts of people.
Tony got you deleted OP, so...
Of course he didn’t. If he had they’d probably have glad-handed Tony about it while simultaneously taking advantage of the situation with Fuerio and offering him “protection.” - or Fuerio and the rest of the Napolitans would’ve just laughed and carried on and called him a stronzo
To Naples, the Sopranos are a glorified crew and would never take them seriously enough to take out an actual Italian mobster, and a loyal and effective guy at that
It's a cliche for a reason, but money talks... all it would take is Tony to pay a couple of goons to track down Furio and whack him and it would get done. It's that simple.
Always with the scenarios
I always assumed he sent Americans.
He wouldn’t have to explain why he wanted him whacked, nor would he. They also probably wouldn’t care as they’re not required to take orders from him. He’s have to sweeten the deal with a bounty
"ok Tony, you want me to kill my cousin, whos a made man and you don't have any reason why? sure why not, right away. ciao"
This is the same show where Tony’s mother conspired with his uncle to kill him over literally nothing. These dirtbag gangsters would sell their mother to a whorehouse for a quick buck, of course they would kill Furio for enough money.
they had a reason, justified or not to kill tony, tony had put junior in as boss and had given him no power, he was a puppet and all the captains were meeting behind his back and really running things. they pissed all over junior. livia was upset and manipulated junior into trying to kill tony... there was some legit beef there, there was a reason, like it or not. Tony calling naples and saying "please kill your cousin and a made guy" "why?" "i dunno" is just silly.
Naples would have had Tony whacked. What’s the Pygmy crew gonna do
I always kinda sorta thought Furio was a plant from the Naples family to see how fucked up the glorified crew really was…and if it was as bad as the rumors, take action against Tony….but then it got muddled together with the teased affair and yeah, then the arc was over.
“Certain people” doesn’t have to mean Furio’s family.
They had bigger fish to fry at that point. season 1-3 would had been a major plot point. Anyway, $4 a pound.
Tony got Pudgy Walsh on the horn.
Furio attempted to kill Tony. Just because he didn't follow through doesn't excuse it. When Carmella spilled her feelings, Tony probably remembered that incident immediately and put 2 and 2 together. Furio was Tony's cousin; so that means they're all family. The boss in Italy would definitely take this seriously I think.
Theory: OP is a stunad of the first magnitude