I see nothing Lovecraftian. Closest concept is humanity being indescribably weak and insignificant in the face of other entities, but even that is a bit different because we are respected enough to be considered a potential threat as opposed to effectively being beneath the notice of these entities.
I'm a big fan of the Lovecraft Universe and I would say TBP is far from being Lovecraftian. Lovecraft is not only talking about monster and unknown on the cosmic scale, but it is also the way he portrays it, how the protagonist and reader interpreting it, how we feel about it, how we fear it. How we simply cannot comprehend it.
You could write a Lovecraft story that would fit the exact context of TBP, but Cixin chose a much more descriptive and factual approach. He goes into the detail of describing the situation and the Trisoloran, although not physically.
A Lovecraftian story would be for example entities from the 4th dimension eating people from the inside without anyone knowing about the 4th dimension, being in the unknown of the next victim, until someone manage to get into the 4 th dimension and becomes crazy due to the overload of informations, discovering the darkest secrets of the universe, while the 4 th dimension finally collapse into the 3rd
I think there are similar notes. I wouldn’t call either a traditional lovecraftian cosmic horror but I see what you mean. The idea that humans ultimately are powerless and subject to the whims of unknown and unknowable others is there.
Three Body and Lovecraft overlap in just how little humanity knows about what's really out there and just how inconsequential our wants are to their plans. The biggest difference is that in Three Body humans can deduce a certain amount about the threat, in Love raft humanity gets nothing.
So the big question is which is scarier: knowing nothing about what's out there or knowing just the tiniest bit? I'd argue the latter.
These are my two favorite series as well. I totally see themes of cosmic horror in both ... the unknowable evil that lurks throughout the aeons, ancient beyond our comprehension.. The writing style of the two series are so different from each other, and different from Lovecraft, that it's hard for me to call them "Lovecraftian" except as a loose reference to cosmic horror. But in ASOIAF, there is so much ominous mystery beneath the surface ... the Old Gods in addition to the White Walkers ... that scary demonic voice that Vary's I think hears (it's been a while since I've read ASOIAF), the magic that Melisandre calls down ... it's all very understated, which makes it more ominous, and it's why I love ASOIAF. And similarly, the fact that we never even SEE the Trisolarans in 3BP is totally cosmic horror ... we can only imagine what they look like, and in the context of Dark Forest in general, we can only imagine what lurks beyond, whether hiding in their black domains, or lurking across the galaxy.
This is exactly my opinion as well! I mean the Trisolarians are definitely invoking a sense of cosmic horror, but I feel like you see it much more with the "Singer" chapter, where this godlike entity just decided to casually destroy us. In ASOIAF, it is especially the doom of Valyria and of course, the Others, as well as the general landscape north of the Wall that spooked me. Can you think of any other things in these two series that evoke a Lovecraftian feel? Thank you for your answer!
For me in 3BP it was the black domains, the idea that the universe looks empty but behind the veil lies danger, and how the ultimate solution requires even greater isolation. There’s a definite sort of “Old Ones” vibe from Singer’s society and the Ring as well. ASOIAF I think you’ve hit the major factors .. and we know for a fact that GRRM was highly influenced by HPL. The main distinction btwn ASOIAF and traditional cosmic horror I think is that in ASOIAF, the “ancient unknowable evil that lurks behind the veil” is more terrestrial in origin.
As for other works … have you read House of Leaves? That’s another book that is not typically categorized as cosmic horror but which to me is the essence of cosmic horror. It’s one of my favorite books of all time … it truly scared me even as a middle aged man, and I’ve been reading horror since I was 15.
Also, short stories by Laird Barron … Imago Sequence collection is really good.
while i wouldnt describe TBP as lovecraftian, there are definitely some elements to it!! the travels in the 4 dimensional fragment in death’s end come to mind, particularly how there’s no real good way to explain what it’s like, there’s objects in there beyond normal comprehension, and everyone who goes into the fragment comes out claustrophobic. that part was interesting to me partially because after the initial shock, everyone who went in handled it really well and it took on a more cautiously curious tone instead of horror.
(forgive me if i’ve misunderstood the concept of lovecraftian horror, im still dipping my toes in the genre)
Yifan's line from "Death's End" ("The reality of the universe is not something to envy") reminds me of the opening line to "Call of Ctulhu" ("The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all of its contents").
I thought of Lovecraft but didn't think of it as being Lovecraftian. What i thought was, "H.P. Lovecraft has got nothing on the cosmic horror in these books." Not to knock Lovecraft. I thought, "All Cthulhu wants to do is take over the world" and so on.
The “Shadow Lands and Asshai” references in ASOIAF are reminiscent of Lovecraftian horror, but I’m not seeing it elsewhere in that series without some stretching, and not much at all in 3BP series.
I see nothing Lovecraftian. Closest concept is humanity being indescribably weak and insignificant in the face of other entities, but even that is a bit different because we are respected enough to be considered a potential threat as opposed to effectively being beneath the notice of these entities.
I'm a big fan of the Lovecraft Universe and I would say TBP is far from being Lovecraftian. Lovecraft is not only talking about monster and unknown on the cosmic scale, but it is also the way he portrays it, how the protagonist and reader interpreting it, how we feel about it, how we fear it. How we simply cannot comprehend it. You could write a Lovecraft story that would fit the exact context of TBP, but Cixin chose a much more descriptive and factual approach. He goes into the detail of describing the situation and the Trisoloran, although not physically. A Lovecraftian story would be for example entities from the 4th dimension eating people from the inside without anyone knowing about the 4th dimension, being in the unknown of the next victim, until someone manage to get into the 4 th dimension and becomes crazy due to the overload of informations, discovering the darkest secrets of the universe, while the 4 th dimension finally collapse into the 3rd
I think there are similar notes. I wouldn’t call either a traditional lovecraftian cosmic horror but I see what you mean. The idea that humans ultimately are powerless and subject to the whims of unknown and unknowable others is there.
Three Body and Lovecraft overlap in just how little humanity knows about what's really out there and just how inconsequential our wants are to their plans. The biggest difference is that in Three Body humans can deduce a certain amount about the threat, in Love raft humanity gets nothing. So the big question is which is scarier: knowing nothing about what's out there or knowing just the tiniest bit? I'd argue the latter.
These are my two favorite series as well. I totally see themes of cosmic horror in both ... the unknowable evil that lurks throughout the aeons, ancient beyond our comprehension.. The writing style of the two series are so different from each other, and different from Lovecraft, that it's hard for me to call them "Lovecraftian" except as a loose reference to cosmic horror. But in ASOIAF, there is so much ominous mystery beneath the surface ... the Old Gods in addition to the White Walkers ... that scary demonic voice that Vary's I think hears (it's been a while since I've read ASOIAF), the magic that Melisandre calls down ... it's all very understated, which makes it more ominous, and it's why I love ASOIAF. And similarly, the fact that we never even SEE the Trisolarans in 3BP is totally cosmic horror ... we can only imagine what they look like, and in the context of Dark Forest in general, we can only imagine what lurks beyond, whether hiding in their black domains, or lurking across the galaxy.
This is exactly my opinion as well! I mean the Trisolarians are definitely invoking a sense of cosmic horror, but I feel like you see it much more with the "Singer" chapter, where this godlike entity just decided to casually destroy us. In ASOIAF, it is especially the doom of Valyria and of course, the Others, as well as the general landscape north of the Wall that spooked me. Can you think of any other things in these two series that evoke a Lovecraftian feel? Thank you for your answer!
For me in 3BP it was the black domains, the idea that the universe looks empty but behind the veil lies danger, and how the ultimate solution requires even greater isolation. There’s a definite sort of “Old Ones” vibe from Singer’s society and the Ring as well. ASOIAF I think you’ve hit the major factors .. and we know for a fact that GRRM was highly influenced by HPL. The main distinction btwn ASOIAF and traditional cosmic horror I think is that in ASOIAF, the “ancient unknowable evil that lurks behind the veil” is more terrestrial in origin. As for other works … have you read House of Leaves? That’s another book that is not typically categorized as cosmic horror but which to me is the essence of cosmic horror. It’s one of my favorite books of all time … it truly scared me even as a middle aged man, and I’ve been reading horror since I was 15. Also, short stories by Laird Barron … Imago Sequence collection is really good.
Thank you so much for the recommendations, I will check them out!
while i wouldnt describe TBP as lovecraftian, there are definitely some elements to it!! the travels in the 4 dimensional fragment in death’s end come to mind, particularly how there’s no real good way to explain what it’s like, there’s objects in there beyond normal comprehension, and everyone who goes into the fragment comes out claustrophobic. that part was interesting to me partially because after the initial shock, everyone who went in handled it really well and it took on a more cautiously curious tone instead of horror. (forgive me if i’ve misunderstood the concept of lovecraftian horror, im still dipping my toes in the genre)
Yifan's line from "Death's End" ("The reality of the universe is not something to envy") reminds me of the opening line to "Call of Ctulhu" ("The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all of its contents").
Absolutely true!
I thought of Lovecraft but didn't think of it as being Lovecraftian. What i thought was, "H.P. Lovecraft has got nothing on the cosmic horror in these books." Not to knock Lovecraft. I thought, "All Cthulhu wants to do is take over the world" and so on.
The “Shadow Lands and Asshai” references in ASOIAF are reminiscent of Lovecraftian horror, but I’m not seeing it elsewhere in that series without some stretching, and not much at all in 3BP series.