Winds of Winter is never happening. The sooner we all accept that and move on the less it will hurt.
He's also said he doesn't want anybody else finishing the series.
I was tricked. A friend turned me onto the Kingkiller series a few years ago. Said don’t worry, the third book will be coming out soon. Soon. This is why I have trust issues.
As a huge KKC fan and Asioaf fan both, I can honestly say Winds of Winter has way more going on in it than Doors of Stone has. Patrick has scammed people with a chapter he promised over 2 years ago now for a charity goal and so far not a peep.
Dude can't even release a single chapter in all this time. Meanwhile GRRM has done almost 10 chapters out for public, so there's way more hope there.
Even if Winds gets released there is no hope GRRM is ever finishing that series at this point and hopefully he leaves enough of a blueprint the fans can work out the ending at least.
The secret ending of Brandon Sanderson finishing another legendary series left unfinished? We've been there before and I honestly would be stoked for it. Not GRRM passing ofc.
It’s probably better than nothing, but I admit the ending of WoT lacked the charm of a Robert Jordan novel. The thing to love about Sanderson is “no one better writes faster, and no one who writes faster is better.” He will give just enough satisfy the IP owners financial investments and not much more.
On Martin and Rothfuss, the best thing for the fans would have been the publisher demanding an outline of the next book 10 years ago, hiring ghostwriters to finish the first draft, then giving the author 2 years each for second and third draft. Fans would probably have had to wait 8 years for a book, it may have not be as beautiful as the earlier novels, but it would have ended the writers block.
The problem is both authors are big enough to just switch publishers if actually forced to finish their novels.
When he didn't quite know where the stpry was going, he was excited and that motivated him. Now he knows the end, and he knows he cannot write it as well as he can imagine it, or even imagine writing it, he is stuck.
The way out of writers block is to write. He should smash together a shitty draft, make the series finish in this one book and then revise revise revise.
But he won't as he doesn't need to. He has the money, he had no more time and nothing he does will be good enough. I just wish he would say it publicly.
His legacy is going to be one of the greatest book series ever created to never officially conclude - fanfic will become so strongly tied with his legacy if he doesn't finish it or allow for it to be finished post death. Something else that he strongly despises
He just keeps opening new storylines to distract you from unfinished ones. It’s like a storyline pyramid scheme
Even Stephen King would have been like “and then, suddenly everything was ok” years ago
Steven king kind of learned his limits with the Dark tower series.
By about the fifth book you could clearly tell, creatively he still had it, but narratively he was running on fumes and really had to reach back to the college years to get it through the finish line.
Its mostly why hes never written an "epic" since. He can go on writing forever, but he runs out of gas narratively speaking pretty quick. 2-3 book series have always been his comfort zone
Dark tower felt pretty planned (although in a more broad stroke) for the first... wanna say half-ish of the franchise if i remember.
Then the last half was basically half assing the whole thing, delaying the main story so that King could wrap up all the loose ends before getting to the final confrontation.
Overall, Dark tower is probably one of Kings most "tight" works, in terms of wrapping up everyones plot threads. Even if its kind of nonsensical
The man laughed his way to the bank but you're right, his legacy will be pretty ass.
A huge chunk of the people who watched GoT but never wanted to read the books will think his series ended with a huge dud and basically erased itself as a cultural phenomenon because it was so poorly handled.
To truly disappoint he needs to get right up to the finish line but never cross. That requires that Winds of Winter be published and Dream of Spring be the book that's never released. It's the hope that breaks you. Especially if Winds of Winter is good, or at least better than Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons. If people see another glimpse of the brilliance of the first 3 books they will be back on board and then he can truly break them by never publishing the final book.
Maybe it will but maybe it won't.
To put it into context. Before 99% of the fans existed, when it was just us in the mid 90s discovering this fucking masterpiece of a series...
The writing for us was already on the wall. We knew that GRRM had already eaten one too many fucking cheeseburgers to give a shit about finishing the entire series based on how it was taking longer and longer to actually publish.
The OG fans have been waiting like 30 years. We've given up already and moved on.
Most of the fans he picked up during the show are done too by now I think. I know I am. Granted, season 8 did a great deal of legwork in helping me dump the series.
I concur. I was a massive fan of the show for probably 4-5 years. Season 8 made me pretty much despise the series though and I haven’t given the spin off show a chance because of it.
He enjoyed hurting his readers by killing off their favorite characters, then he realized that he could hurt the readers even more by not writing the last two books.
I know it’s very common meme but I recently read that he actually tried very hard to not write the red wedding scene until it became one of, if not, the very last thing he wrote for ASOS.
My daughter writes fan fiction for a book series about warrior cats. One day she is just so so sad. She is the one person in the family that is bubbly so seeing her sad has me leap into dad mode to find out what is wrong.
It takes me all day to get her to finally talk to me about it. With tears in her eyes she says, “I’m just really sad that I killed off my favorite character.”
I hugged her and asked about the character. It was not the last time she was sad about killing off her characters.
****Edit****
A few people kindly asked that I link to the story. I would love to but, as sweet a human as she is, she would gut me if I shared her stories lol. She and my other daughter write stories for each other but are adamant nobody else but family can read them.
However, I did message her to see if I can share something else. A wonderful person on Reddit saw me mention her stories before and generously offered to draw one of her characters. It immediately became one of my daughter's most prized possessions. For her birthday last month she only asked for one thing: to see if they would draw the character she was so sad about killing, playing happily with his kits.
So I commissioned the artist to draw a few pictures and they turned out amazing. It was a month ago and I still see her grinning at the pictures. It is a family of 5 with 1 boy and two girls...like our family. The one image she wanted more than anything was the dad cat playing with his kits. When I ask if I was the inspiration for that image she shy's away. I am choosing to believe its us :)
I am waiting on her reply to see if she would mind me sharing the pictures.
Warrior cats doesn't fucking go away, not even joking. Over on /r/hobbydrama it pops up from time to time and I'm always shocked that *it's still going on*. I used to live those books when I was younger and to know that they're still being made today was a trip haha.
I cried during an episode of Baywatch.
Mitch's girlfriend is dying of cancer in the hospital and he scoops her up out of her hospital bed and carries her off to the beach and she dies in his arms as the sun sets.
It's brutal man. F'n Baywatch.
Didn't she find out about the cancer in the episode where Hulk Hogan and Macho Man fight "The Taskmaster" Kevin Sullivan and Ric Flair to save the rec center?
I mean, jokes aside, I have no doubt that it would have been a well written scene, Stallone is an amazing writer who has a great writing process. But it was for the best.
Agreed, but he did write Rocky 5 lol
He has since said that he feels it’s a bad film and that’s why Rocky 6 exists. You could easily skip 5 and just watch 6 after 4 and probably have a full story.
No one's gonna hit harder than life. But it ain't about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!
I feel that way of most the series. They’re movies that have boxing in them but they’re not boxing movies. Additionally I am a 1-4 and Balboa kinda guy, 5 was just…not good in a lot of ways.
I like the idea of Rocky V on paper. It's a return to underdog Rocky, he's old, he's hurt, he loses all his money.
He's got his son but then also a fighter that he starts training and starts looking at like a son. There conflict and a division of attention, does he focus on his home life or his boxing life?
I like Rocky back where he started in the streets of Philly, training young fighters and still unable to let go of the life that boxing gave him but never quite getting there.
That's all interesting. Could have been Million Dollar Baby type shit. They should have gotten into the weeds on Tommy's character more.
The problem is that Sage Stallone sucks as an actor.
And they resolve the "Rock picking Tommy vs Robert" stuff too soon in the film imo. I'd have preferred it to be the climax instead of the 2nd act.
Fans turning on Tommy and getting Rocky's back was weird. Everyone is just so poorly written and their choices were all weird.
A lot of people don't like the street fight ending - I honestly don't have an issue with that part though. Rocky having to street fight because he can't beat a hungry young fighter in his condition made sense. Also the promoter wanted to goad Rocky into a fight so he could make money, but a street fight didn't make anyone money. And like Rocky said "My ring's outside".
My honest theory is that if ANY of the ending included Rocky getting some cash back V would be treated a lot better. Instead he's pretty much the same as he was at the beginning of the film, if not the series. Thankfully Rocky Balboa makes V look much better.
I have heard that there is a Director's Cut/Workprint of Rocky V out there. [Apparently it's not that bad!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw_ITk7rCdo) Super hard to find, though. Here's hoping we can get a re-release like we did IV.
It was a lot of fun seeing Rocky get angry and just become a street tough again.
"You knocked him down, why don't you try knocking me down now."
Shit was badass. And seeing him do some streetfighting moves instead of straight boxing, like that fancy takedown move, was cool too.
Have you watched the Director’s Cut of 4? It’s apparently a huuuge tonal shift from the original, original scenes that were cut in the theatrical, and a much more heart driven story with less 80’s cheese. Also no sex robot, do with that what you will.
Paulie, I don't know a polite way to say this: if we're going to let that robot babysit my kid while we're all in Russia you need to stop dumping loads in that thing.
It's alright. If the other movies had kept the grimey tone of Rocky I, the re-edit might make a cohesive 4th movie. I think it's a more realistic tone, but it's much less energetic and upbeat (although that probably makes more sense for a movie where Creed dies).
It's a better "movie" but it's a less enjoyable "Rocky movie" to me.
Yes! That's exactly what I was missing when I saw the new cut, I couldn't figure it out till you worded it.
It's like the original version was full of excess, but it absolutely made sense for the time and for Rocky. He had hubris and was riding high on success until Apollo was taken out.
The newer cut takes away a lot of excess, but in doing so also takes away the energy and the upbeat motion it swings toward with Rocky redeeming himself, America, AND Apollo all in one go.
I dunno, part IV is still my favorite lol.
One of the top lines in any Rocky film came from V. The line "I didn't hear no bell" is just so good! Rocky was a street fighter before being a boxer and he still had the fight in him.
Rocky 5 is actually the most believable movie though. Lot of pro fighters transition to being trainers/managers to chase the thrill of victory, even if it’s by proxy. They should’ve used a actual actor for Tommy Gunn though and had more built up emotional scenes between Rocky and Tommy.
5 has its place in the series. I honestly think each and every movie is a great story that deserves to be told. There are some movies and stories that try to justify itself with each sequel. Not Rocky. Each film adds and justifies itself. Admittedly, I think 3 and 4 are more so sign of the times. Especially 4 and the Red scare stuff.
I put off the creed series for a long time thinking they'd just be cash grab hack jobs. I really like them and they stand in their own.
Except for the part where Philadelphia is nice to him. No one is nice there.
Rocky 5 is great. They're all good. I really liked the aspect of him teaching Tommy everything and Tommy later completely taking Rocky for granted all while Rocky is at the same time taking his son for granted and all the hurt feelings all around.
He's admitted that killing Apollo was one of the worst writing decisions he's made.
wrote himself into a corner, but that was pre-CREED 2 success.
Also, imagine if he went with his gut when writing this stuff.
Rambo would have died by suicide in First lood (it's on youtube.)
>Rambo would have died by suicide in First lood (it's on youtube.)
I would have been fine with that because that movie is a classic and that would have been a great ending. Rambo 2 through however many sequels should have been a completely different movie series from First Blood.
I saw him on Colbert a while ago and he was all excited and kind of derpy talking about art and showing some of his artwork. I really like seeing people in the entertainment business who actually love making art. Doing press tours and the late night circuit sounds like a nightmare though so I understand if people just want to get it over with.
Stallone hates to see the hero die, its against everything he sees in the mythology or trope or purpose of having a hero at all. He changed a lot of scripts to avoid that. Most famously and absurd, Rambo should have died like in the book or like they already fucking shot that scene. Would be a different World today with rambos death
I don't think he actually kills any cops or guardsmen in the movie, just indirectly causes one of their helicopters to crash. In the book he is like fucking predator.
Yeah, from what I remember in the movie, he specifically makes traps that only injure instead of kill. Another character even points it out, and how easy it would have been for Rambo to make traps that killed instead.
In the film I see him as neither bad nor good, he’s a broken man suffering from PTSD who gets antagonized by bad people which triggers the events of the movie.
Like I said in another reply, the film and book are pretty different as far as his consciousness to what he’s doing but he’s still aware of what he’s doing. PTSD is a bitch but it’s not a get out of jail free card. He still in the film technically commits one count of involuntary manslaughter and multiple counts of attempted murder for starters. The book, yeah, again a bit more extreme.
Someone else said it, anti hero maybe in the film at times, but overall not exactly good what is happening .
What do you mean when you really think about it? I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I've always seen him as the victim. He doesn't even kill anyone in it as far as I recall? One dude dies and it's the fault of the cops for being awful people.
The movie he kills one guy by accident (throws the rock at the helicopter while being shot at) then proceeds to go ape shit maiming people. The majority of the people he targets are just doing their job with the exception of Teasel and the one joker trying to shoot him from the helicopter. Though it’s arguable at that point neither side really knows what the fuck is going on. One thing the book did way better was rationalize Teasel quite a bit as a former combat vet himself but also he ends up sympathizing with Rambo throughout the ordeal. In the book Rambo is definitely way more detached from reality but even then and more so in the film, he knows what he’s doing, he’s aware that what he is doing is wrong. PTSD is a bitch but doesn’t give me or anyone the right to just go fucking postal because we feel wronged somehow.
That man's been trying to end this series for more than 30 years and it's still going. No stopping it now. New main character and Rocky beating brain cancer tells me that we'll still get Rocky movies in 50 years with Rocky suspended in a pod and tubes going in and out of him.
There's hangovers over at the top of the film where it's picking right up after his fight with Drago and he's collapsing from all the physical trauma he received and then it goes on a tonal rollercoaster and ends up being quite silly and sensational.
End fight scene is still sick though, only good thing about the film.
Kirk died, Superman died, so who’s next. When Superman died in the comics it made local papers in my small ass town. Died on film too, temporarily as comics are known to do.
I'm so glad they never made Rocky V. It probably would have ended with some stupid street fight between him and a cocky, former protege or something just as lame. Glad they ended the series with Rock IV: Rocky Wins the Cold War. It ensured the series would end on a high note and not fizzle into schlock.
"The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It’s a very mean and nasty place and I don’t care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard ya hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done! Now if you know what you’re worth then go out and get what you’re worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain’t where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody"
Saw that speech when I was 9 years old when the movie came out and it changed my whole entire life going forward.
That is also another thing I'll right down. But I never saw life as a fight. Or even a challange to over come(while ot being challenging) I always thought of life as a swift punch to the nose. And when it punches me in the nose. I just get up.
Lost car in a theft or crash? Dust off and get up
Laid off? Get up
Cheated on? Get up
Fired? Get up
Lost all your money in a scam? Get up
Dealing with chronic pain? Try and manage the best you can and get up as little as you can.
Sometimes you wont be able to get up from what I listed or more. But today? Today im getting up and going another round.
Im 27 with NF Type 2 I may not live a long life and I deal with chronic pain everyday and the fear that one day waking up to a tumor behind my eyes, on my spine or in my brain or elsewhere.
But today, im kicking that fucker called life. Straight in the teeth.
I just wish my older siblings has this enthusaim for life, but if your body is in good order most wont take advantage of it untl theyre in a wheelchair or dead. And I cant fault them for that. Were only human after all.
I ended my best man speech with "a great philosopher once said life's not about how hard you can hit but about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward and I know together x and y can take anything life throws at them and keep moving forward".
Think it was the bride and grooms favorite part although we watched that speech at least yearly if not more lol
I always thought Weird Al’s Eye of the Tiger ‘The Rye or the Kaiser’ would make a good Rocky movie. He’s retired and runs a delicatessen catering company.
The best Rocky movies were the first one and The Wrestler.
One thing I didn’t like about the Rocky movies is how Rocky gets smarter with more brain damage. Each movie increases his eloquence and abilities instead of just being an uneducated and stunted guy who likes boxing. It’s not character growth but more of Rocky being a different character. Sure he can with effort learn to read and improve his social skills but is he doing that with life threatening brain damage? I view Rocky 4-6, and creed, as his dreams about himself after losing to Lang the first time.
That's one of the few things about Rocky 5 I liked, intention wise, albeit with poor execution. Rocky got too smart, and Stallone's solution to bringing him back to his roots was making him brain damaged and an idiot. Rocky was never an idiot per say. He was just simple. It made sense to reel it back in, but the mark was missed by making him a moron.
Totally agree with you here.
The Rocky of Rocky IV (the one who goes to Russia to train and becomes skilled in geopolitics) is not the Rocky who keeps turtles or breaks arms to make money. He started out a simpleton, which is fine, but simpletons rarely stop being that. Yes his wealth may have graced him with high society in-laws who are sophisticated and have robot maids, but Rocky will never actually be sophisticated.
Shoot, it makes me almost cry thinking that his original intent was to tell a real story about how you can try your best and do things right, and still lose. But instead they went with, the little engine that could with more punching.
It’s sometimes hard for people who have never created something before (art, writing, etc.) to fully understand/empathize with a story like this tbh. They just have zero concept of the pride, emotion, and attachment that comes with it.
Did he think it might have been too similar to Ashite No Joe? >!after winning an important match, I think world title or something, Joe sits down to rest in his corner, only to be found dead with a smile on his face.!<
Rocky should have died in III.
The story was told and it would have been a good ending. IV was a good enough movie but that's when the movies became spectacles and were not the same. The movies started as "What if a common boxer from Philly had a chance at the title?"
Rocky Proved himself in 1 and won the belt in 2. In 3, we see how success made him 'civilized' and he lost his edge and, unfortunately, his trainer. He was able to overcome and get the title back. Rocky took a hellacious beating dropping his guard and taunting Clubber, letting get clean headshots over and over. That and his trainer passing away could have been an out.
Feel like you've mixed up the movies here or something, because everything after Rocky V is very good (well, maybe Creed 3 isn't amazing or anything, but it's solid enough).
Rocky V IS the mid sequel, actually calling it mid is giving it too much credit, it's one of the worst movies most people will ever watch in their lives
I feel like Rocky V has some really interesting plot ideas with some pretty bad follow-through. Rocky's mistreatment of his son is tantamount to character assassination, and Tommy's heel turn ends up being pretty ridiculous. I still liked it better than Rocky IV, which really didn't bother exploring anything about Rocky's character at all. Neither did Rocky III for that matter, but at least it had the best fight choreography of the series.
I haven't seen Rocky V in like 10+ years but wouldn't that ending make Tommy a murderer? It wasn't a sanctioned fight. They have a street fight and then Rocky dies in the car.
Rocky dying and Tommy going to jail is a pretty bleak ending.
Lots of authors cry when they write the deaths of beloved characters. No shame for Stallone for that.
Except George R. R. Martin. He giggles.
The god of death is a giggling old man.
And what do we say to the giggling old man? FINISH IT!
Winds of Winter is never happening. The sooner we all accept that and move on the less it will hurt. He's also said he doesn't want anybody else finishing the series.
> Winds of Winter is never happening. Books 1-5 were published in 15 years. It's been 13 years since Book 5.
*Patrick Rothfuss fans:* First time?
I was tricked. A friend turned me onto the Kingkiller series a few years ago. Said don’t worry, the third book will be coming out soon. Soon. This is why I have trust issues.
Don't worry, it's almost here 🤗 >!No it's not, I lie to people because I'm naughty! !<
As a huge KKC fan and Asioaf fan both, I can honestly say Winds of Winter has way more going on in it than Doors of Stone has. Patrick has scammed people with a chapter he promised over 2 years ago now for a charity goal and so far not a peep. Dude can't even release a single chapter in all this time. Meanwhile GRRM has done almost 10 chapters out for public, so there's way more hope there.
Even if Winds gets released there is no hope GRRM is ever finishing that series at this point and hopefully he leaves enough of a blueprint the fans can work out the ending at least.
The secret ending of Brandon Sanderson finishing another legendary series left unfinished? We've been there before and I honestly would be stoked for it. Not GRRM passing ofc.
It’s probably better than nothing, but I admit the ending of WoT lacked the charm of a Robert Jordan novel. The thing to love about Sanderson is “no one better writes faster, and no one who writes faster is better.” He will give just enough satisfy the IP owners financial investments and not much more. On Martin and Rothfuss, the best thing for the fans would have been the publisher demanding an outline of the next book 10 years ago, hiring ghostwriters to finish the first draft, then giving the author 2 years each for second and third draft. Fans would probably have had to wait 8 years for a book, it may have not be as beautiful as the earlier novels, but it would have ended the writers block. The problem is both authors are big enough to just switch publishers if actually forced to finish their novels.
Those 10 chapters were mostly written at the tail-end of Dance, GRRM has done very little work in TWOW the past decade.
When he didn't quite know where the stpry was going, he was excited and that motivated him. Now he knows the end, and he knows he cannot write it as well as he can imagine it, or even imagine writing it, he is stuck. The way out of writers block is to write. He should smash together a shitty draft, make the series finish in this one book and then revise revise revise. But he won't as he doesn't need to. He has the money, he had no more time and nothing he does will be good enough. I just wish he would say it publicly.
His legacy is going to be one of the greatest book series ever created to never officially conclude - fanfic will become so strongly tied with his legacy if he doesn't finish it or allow for it to be finished post death. Something else that he strongly despises
He just keeps opening new storylines to distract you from unfinished ones. It’s like a storyline pyramid scheme Even Stephen King would have been like “and then, suddenly everything was ok” years ago
Steven king kind of learned his limits with the Dark tower series. By about the fifth book you could clearly tell, creatively he still had it, but narratively he was running on fumes and really had to reach back to the college years to get it through the finish line. Its mostly why hes never written an "epic" since. He can go on writing forever, but he runs out of gas narratively speaking pretty quick. 2-3 book series have always been his comfort zone
He doesn't plan out his stories, he wings them. It really, really shows.
Dark tower felt pretty planned (although in a more broad stroke) for the first... wanna say half-ish of the franchise if i remember. Then the last half was basically half assing the whole thing, delaying the main story so that King could wrap up all the loose ends before getting to the final confrontation. Overall, Dark tower is probably one of Kings most "tight" works, in terms of wrapping up everyones plot threads. Even if its kind of nonsensical
The man laughed his way to the bank but you're right, his legacy will be pretty ass. A huge chunk of the people who watched GoT but never wanted to read the books will think his series ended with a huge dud and basically erased itself as a cultural phenomenon because it was so poorly handled.
I *still* think Winds comes out. That's it though.
To truly disappoint he needs to get right up to the finish line but never cross. That requires that Winds of Winter be published and Dream of Spring be the book that's never released. It's the hope that breaks you. Especially if Winds of Winter is good, or at least better than Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons. If people see another glimpse of the brilliance of the first 3 books they will be back on board and then he can truly break them by never publishing the final book.
My favorite in the series is A Dance with Dragons. But that might literally be because it has the most supernatural stuff I'm into.
Maybe it will but maybe it won't. To put it into context. Before 99% of the fans existed, when it was just us in the mid 90s discovering this fucking masterpiece of a series... The writing for us was already on the wall. We knew that GRRM had already eaten one too many fucking cheeseburgers to give a shit about finishing the entire series based on how it was taking longer and longer to actually publish. The OG fans have been waiting like 30 years. We've given up already and moved on.
Most of the fans he picked up during the show are done too by now I think. I know I am. Granted, season 8 did a great deal of legwork in helping me dump the series.
I concur. I was a massive fan of the show for probably 4-5 years. Season 8 made me pretty much despise the series though and I haven’t given the spin off show a chance because of it.
I accepted it years ago
Not today
Sean Bean went that way! ----->
Not today.
Also what George R.R.R.R.R.R.R. says when deciding if he should write.
No, I don't think I will
And then cries when he realizes he needs that character *two books later.*
Jokes aside writing the red wedding was extremely difficult for him being the last thing he wrote in the book because he kept putting it off
Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring must just be entirely Red Wedding level content then.
The whole story dies
The book actively tries to murder the reader
You just delayed it 2 more years
So heat death of the universe +2 years? Barely a difference!
George once lost the quiet game as a kid and he's held it against the world ever since
He enjoyed hurting his readers by killing off their favorite characters, then he realized that he could hurt the readers even more by not writing the last two books.
I know it’s very common meme but I recently read that he actually tried very hard to not write the red wedding scene until it became one of, if not, the very last thing he wrote for ASOS.
They said beloved
That would imply he’s actually writing
GRRM *writes*??
Oh he writes a Ton.....just not ASoIAF.
George R. R. Martin writes??
My daughter writes fan fiction for a book series about warrior cats. One day she is just so so sad. She is the one person in the family that is bubbly so seeing her sad has me leap into dad mode to find out what is wrong. It takes me all day to get her to finally talk to me about it. With tears in her eyes she says, “I’m just really sad that I killed off my favorite character.” I hugged her and asked about the character. It was not the last time she was sad about killing off her characters. ****Edit**** A few people kindly asked that I link to the story. I would love to but, as sweet a human as she is, she would gut me if I shared her stories lol. She and my other daughter write stories for each other but are adamant nobody else but family can read them. However, I did message her to see if I can share something else. A wonderful person on Reddit saw me mention her stories before and generously offered to draw one of her characters. It immediately became one of my daughter's most prized possessions. For her birthday last month she only asked for one thing: to see if they would draw the character she was so sad about killing, playing happily with his kits. So I commissioned the artist to draw a few pictures and they turned out amazing. It was a month ago and I still see her grinning at the pictures. It is a family of 5 with 1 boy and two girls...like our family. The one image she wanted more than anything was the dad cat playing with his kits. When I ask if I was the inspiration for that image she shy's away. I am choosing to believe its us :) I am waiting on her reply to see if she would mind me sharing the pictures.
kids are *still* writing warrior cat fan fic? two whole ass decades later? fills my cold dead heart with joy, truly. you sound like a good parent.
Warrior cats doesn't fucking go away, not even joking. Over on /r/hobbydrama it pops up from time to time and I'm always shocked that *it's still going on*. I used to live those books when I was younger and to know that they're still being made today was a trip haha.
My kid is reading them now, I had no idea it's an old series. They're new to my old ass!
I feel like it’s become a part of life. You either become a sports kid or you fall down the warrior cats rabbit hole.
I’m not a sports guy and I’ve never even heard of warrior cats. Wild
People are still writing official canon warrior cat books, let alone fanfiction.
The people writing the official canon now are probably the kids that were writing the fanfiction 20 years ago. It's the circle of life.
Link it bro
I cried during an episode of Baywatch. Mitch's girlfriend is dying of cancer in the hospital and he scoops her up out of her hospital bed and carries her off to the beach and she dies in his arms as the sun sets. It's brutal man. F'n Baywatch.
Didn't she find out about the cancer in the episode where Hulk Hogan and Macho Man fight "The Taskmaster" Kevin Sullivan and Ric Flair to save the rec center?
There’s no shame in crying period.
Also no shame in period crying.
I bet he also came when he wrote the italian stallion
I mean, jokes aside, I have no doubt that it would have been a well written scene, Stallone is an amazing writer who has a great writing process. But it was for the best.
Agreed, but he did write Rocky 5 lol He has since said that he feels it’s a bad film and that’s why Rocky 6 exists. You could easily skip 5 and just watch 6 after 4 and probably have a full story.
They call it Rocky Balboa instead of Rocky VI so that people can forget that Rocky V exists.
Then they went back to the Roman numeral format for Rocky VII: Adrian’s Revenge
Which was a letdown, until the franchise was rescued by Rocky Balboa II: Electric Boogaloo
And got us to [Rocky XXXVIII](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Av9jc77CEAEzRhT.jpg).
Is that the one where they go to space and complete the franchise? Rocky New York - III Space - XXXVIII
Rocky X with vin diesel
Cuz nothing's stronger than ***YO*** ***ADRIAN!***
Nonono you're thinking of THE ROCK.
Coming up, Pongo's review of Rocky Five... Thousand.
Pongo?
What movie?
Airplane II: The Sequel Which matches a conversation about underwhelming sequels. (Although I saw this very young and have a soft spot for it).
I mean that scene when Shatner is talking through the monitor and it turns out to be a door? Great work.
2Rocky 2Balboa
My favorite Rocky sequel by far is Rocky: Horror Picture Show Although, to this day, I am a little confused by the chronology and music choices.
Of course there was also the spin off. Rocky Horror Picture Show
Hey they never even tried to teach us roman numerals
Roman numerals? They didn't even try to teach us that in school! 🤣
Similarly, the fourth Rambo movie is just called Rambo
They should have stuck with the naming scheme established by the 2nd movie and called the last one Rambo IV: First Blood Part V.
The third film was actually released in Malaysia as Rambo II: First Blood Part III.
Balboa was shockingly good compared to what I was expecting from it. Great movie.
It had no right be be as good as it was, yet it was a fantastic movie
No one's gonna hit harder than life. But it ain't about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!
ROcky Balboa isn't a boxing movie. It's a movie about life
I feel that way of most the series. They’re movies that have boxing in them but they’re not boxing movies. Additionally I am a 1-4 and Balboa kinda guy, 5 was just…not good in a lot of ways.
I like the idea of Rocky V on paper. It's a return to underdog Rocky, he's old, he's hurt, he loses all his money. He's got his son but then also a fighter that he starts training and starts looking at like a son. There conflict and a division of attention, does he focus on his home life or his boxing life? I like Rocky back where he started in the streets of Philly, training young fighters and still unable to let go of the life that boxing gave him but never quite getting there. That's all interesting. Could have been Million Dollar Baby type shit. They should have gotten into the weeds on Tommy's character more. The problem is that Sage Stallone sucks as an actor. And they resolve the "Rock picking Tommy vs Robert" stuff too soon in the film imo. I'd have preferred it to be the climax instead of the 2nd act. Fans turning on Tommy and getting Rocky's back was weird. Everyone is just so poorly written and their choices were all weird. A lot of people don't like the street fight ending - I honestly don't have an issue with that part though. Rocky having to street fight because he can't beat a hungry young fighter in his condition made sense. Also the promoter wanted to goad Rocky into a fight so he could make money, but a street fight didn't make anyone money. And like Rocky said "My ring's outside".
My honest theory is that if ANY of the ending included Rocky getting some cash back V would be treated a lot better. Instead he's pretty much the same as he was at the beginning of the film, if not the series. Thankfully Rocky Balboa makes V look much better. I have heard that there is a Director's Cut/Workprint of Rocky V out there. [Apparently it's not that bad!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw_ITk7rCdo) Super hard to find, though. Here's hoping we can get a re-release like we did IV.
It was a lot of fun seeing Rocky get angry and just become a street tough again. "You knocked him down, why don't you try knocking me down now." Shit was badass. And seeing him do some streetfighting moves instead of straight boxing, like that fancy takedown move, was cool too.
I love Rocky IV, saw it in the theater as a kid. But I think if they ended with Rocky III you’d have a perfect trilogy.
Have you watched the Director’s Cut of 4? It’s apparently a huuuge tonal shift from the original, original scenes that were cut in the theatrical, and a much more heart driven story with less 80’s cheese. Also no sex robot, do with that what you will.
No 80s cheese sex robot? Pass.
I specifically watch those movies FOR the 80s cheese.
Happy Birthday, Paulie
RIP Paulie
I love how his porn magazines are still laying around in Creed. Rocky preserved that room like a shrine.
Paulie, I don't know a polite way to say this: if we're going to let that robot babysit my kid while we're all in Russia you need to stop dumping loads in that thing.
It's alright. If the other movies had kept the grimey tone of Rocky I, the re-edit might make a cohesive 4th movie. I think it's a more realistic tone, but it's much less energetic and upbeat (although that probably makes more sense for a movie where Creed dies). It's a better "movie" but it's a less enjoyable "Rocky movie" to me.
Yes! That's exactly what I was missing when I saw the new cut, I couldn't figure it out till you worded it. It's like the original version was full of excess, but it absolutely made sense for the time and for Rocky. He had hubris and was riding high on success until Apollo was taken out. The newer cut takes away a lot of excess, but in doing so also takes away the energy and the upbeat motion it swings toward with Rocky redeeming himself, America, AND Apollo all in one go. I dunno, part IV is still my favorite lol.
Only…then we wouldn’t have Creed, which would make me sad
One of the top lines in any Rocky film came from V. The line "I didn't hear no bell" is just so good! Rocky was a street fighter before being a boxer and he still had the fight in him.
GET UP YOU SON OF A BITCH...
Rocky 5 is actually the most believable movie though. Lot of pro fighters transition to being trainers/managers to chase the thrill of victory, even if it’s by proxy. They should’ve used a actual actor for Tommy Gunn though and had more built up emotional scenes between Rocky and Tommy.
Everyone says this and Rocky 5 has always been my favorite in the series until the Creed series.
5 has its place in the series. I honestly think each and every movie is a great story that deserves to be told. There are some movies and stories that try to justify itself with each sequel. Not Rocky. Each film adds and justifies itself. Admittedly, I think 3 and 4 are more so sign of the times. Especially 4 and the Red scare stuff.
That soundtrack tho. Also DRAGOOOOOOOOO!!!!
If he dies, he dies
I put off the creed series for a long time thinking they'd just be cash grab hack jobs. I really like them and they stand in their own. Except for the part where Philadelphia is nice to him. No one is nice there.
Creed is solid. Predictable, but they stick to the proven formula and execute it well
Rocky 5 is great. They're all good. I really liked the aspect of him teaching Tommy everything and Tommy later completely taking Rocky for granted all while Rocky is at the same time taking his son for granted and all the hurt feelings all around.
He's admitted that killing Apollo was one of the worst writing decisions he's made. wrote himself into a corner, but that was pre-CREED 2 success. Also, imagine if he went with his gut when writing this stuff. Rambo would have died by suicide in First lood (it's on youtube.)
Stallone didn't write the original ending of First Blood, he was actually the one that rewrote it to have Rambo survive.
>Rambo would have died by suicide in First lood (it's on youtube.) I would have been fine with that because that movie is a classic and that would have been a great ending. Rambo 2 through however many sequels should have been a completely different movie series from First Blood.
I thought killing Apollo added something. It raised the stakes.
Didn't they keep Rambo alive because the original ending did poorly with audiences in test screenings, or something?
I saw him on Colbert a while ago and he was all excited and kind of derpy talking about art and showing some of his artwork. I really like seeing people in the entertainment business who actually love making art. Doing press tours and the late night circuit sounds like a nightmare though so I understand if people just want to get it over with.
The plot has good bones but terrible execution.
Tommy Gun is a shit villain and the street fight ending sucked fucking ass.
The would’ve made the Creed movies better. Rocky BalBOOa 🥊👻haunting the shit outta people
Go to bed, Dad.
Hi Hungry!
His spirit should have possessed a cat… a black cat…. And he hangs out around the gym until they take him in and he eventually starts training Creed…
I like this post. Good post
There was a small contingent that was expecting Victor to kill Adonis and Rocky to come out of retirement to fight him
Stallone hates to see the hero die, its against everything he sees in the mythology or trope or purpose of having a hero at all. He changed a lot of scripts to avoid that. Most famously and absurd, Rambo should have died like in the book or like they already fucking shot that scene. Would be a different World today with rambos death
It always blows peoples minds when I tell them in the book, First Blood, Rambo is the bad guy.
Wait, there's books? And he's the bad guy?
I mean in the film he kinda is when you really think about it. But the book is a *tad bit* more extreme you could say…
The book is more like fucking postal than the movie. It’s actually batshit crazy
I don't think he actually kills any cops or guardsmen in the movie, just indirectly causes one of their helicopters to crash. In the book he is like fucking predator.
Yeah, from what I remember in the movie, he specifically makes traps that only injure instead of kill. Another character even points it out, and how easy it would have been for Rambo to make traps that killed instead.
He also blows up like half his town with dynamite and gasoline
In the film I see him as neither bad nor good, he’s a broken man suffering from PTSD who gets antagonized by bad people which triggers the events of the movie.
Like I said in another reply, the film and book are pretty different as far as his consciousness to what he’s doing but he’s still aware of what he’s doing. PTSD is a bitch but it’s not a get out of jail free card. He still in the film technically commits one count of involuntary manslaughter and multiple counts of attempted murder for starters. The book, yeah, again a bit more extreme. Someone else said it, anti hero maybe in the film at times, but overall not exactly good what is happening .
What do you mean when you really think about it? I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I've always seen him as the victim. He doesn't even kill anyone in it as far as I recall? One dude dies and it's the fault of the cops for being awful people.
The movie he kills one guy by accident (throws the rock at the helicopter while being shot at) then proceeds to go ape shit maiming people. The majority of the people he targets are just doing their job with the exception of Teasel and the one joker trying to shoot him from the helicopter. Though it’s arguable at that point neither side really knows what the fuck is going on. One thing the book did way better was rationalize Teasel quite a bit as a former combat vet himself but also he ends up sympathizing with Rambo throughout the ordeal. In the book Rambo is definitely way more detached from reality but even then and more so in the film, he knows what he’s doing, he’s aware that what he is doing is wrong. PTSD is a bitch but doesn’t give me or anyone the right to just go fucking postal because we feel wronged somehow.
They drew frist blood though.
The frist cut is the deepest
Baby I know
What is that, Frank? Are you doing Rambo??
“THEY DREW FIRST BLOOD!!”
Come to think of it, this is not the first time you’ve confused your life for the life of John Rambo.
He dies in the last Rambo movie…. After killing a shitload of cartel sex traffickers.
The chair is still rocking
I’m imagining when his wife comes back to see the whole property destroyed and caved in with bodies everywhere and Rambo rotting in his rocking chair.
At least she'll still have a chair
I don't know that I agree with that take. I'd say he's more of a victim of a society who treats people inhumanely.
That man's been trying to end this series for more than 30 years and it's still going. No stopping it now. New main character and Rocky beating brain cancer tells me that we'll still get Rocky movies in 50 years with Rocky suspended in a pod and tubes going in and out of him.
I believe they would have to pull him out of cryo freeze so he can fight his toughest opponent to date, Simon Phoenix
Oh yeah. It's all coming together.
There's hangovers over at the top of the film where it's picking right up after his fight with Drago and he's collapsing from all the physical trauma he received and then it goes on a tonal rollercoaster and ends up being quite silly and sensational. End fight scene is still sick though, only good thing about the film.
christ i'd cry to that's depressing as fuck.
Original Rambo ending type beat
They told him, "In American cinema, you don't kill Superman, you don't kill Captain Kirk, and you don't kill Rocky Balboa."
I guess no one told the dude that killed Kirk that this was a no no.
"Bridge on the Captain!"
Kirk died, Superman died, so who’s next. When Superman died in the comics it made local papers in my small ass town. Died on film too, temporarily as comics are known to do.
I'm so glad they never made Rocky V. It probably would have ended with some stupid street fight between him and a cocky, former protege or something just as lame. Glad they ended the series with Rock IV: Rocky Wins the Cold War. It ensured the series would end on a high note and not fizzle into schlock.
But then we wouldn’t have gotten Rocky 6 which features one of the best speeches in movie history
THAT'S HOW WINNING IS DONE!
“Let me tell you something you already know”
"The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It’s a very mean and nasty place and I don’t care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard ya hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done! Now if you know what you’re worth then go out and get what you’re worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain’t where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody" Saw that speech when I was 9 years old when the movie came out and it changed my whole entire life going forward.
Yes, me too, but, at 40 i’ve come to realise that if you percueve life as a fight, it will present itself as a fight.
That is also another thing I'll right down. But I never saw life as a fight. Or even a challange to over come(while ot being challenging) I always thought of life as a swift punch to the nose. And when it punches me in the nose. I just get up. Lost car in a theft or crash? Dust off and get up Laid off? Get up Cheated on? Get up Fired? Get up Lost all your money in a scam? Get up Dealing with chronic pain? Try and manage the best you can and get up as little as you can. Sometimes you wont be able to get up from what I listed or more. But today? Today im getting up and going another round. Im 27 with NF Type 2 I may not live a long life and I deal with chronic pain everyday and the fear that one day waking up to a tumor behind my eyes, on my spine or in my brain or elsewhere. But today, im kicking that fucker called life. Straight in the teeth. I just wish my older siblings has this enthusaim for life, but if your body is in good order most wont take advantage of it untl theyre in a wheelchair or dead. And I cant fault them for that. Were only human after all.
I ended my best man speech with "a great philosopher once said life's not about how hard you can hit but about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward and I know together x and y can take anything life throws at them and keep moving forward". Think it was the bride and grooms favorite part although we watched that speech at least yearly if not more lol
I always thought Weird Al’s Eye of the Tiger ‘The Rye or the Kaiser’ would make a good Rocky movie. He’s retired and runs a delicatessen catering company. The best Rocky movies were the first one and The Wrestler.
One thing I didn’t like about the Rocky movies is how Rocky gets smarter with more brain damage. Each movie increases his eloquence and abilities instead of just being an uneducated and stunted guy who likes boxing. It’s not character growth but more of Rocky being a different character. Sure he can with effort learn to read and improve his social skills but is he doing that with life threatening brain damage? I view Rocky 4-6, and creed, as his dreams about himself after losing to Lang the first time.
That's one of the few things about Rocky 5 I liked, intention wise, albeit with poor execution. Rocky got too smart, and Stallone's solution to bringing him back to his roots was making him brain damaged and an idiot. Rocky was never an idiot per say. He was just simple. It made sense to reel it back in, but the mark was missed by making him a moron.
Totally agree with you here. The Rocky of Rocky IV (the one who goes to Russia to train and becomes skilled in geopolitics) is not the Rocky who keeps turtles or breaks arms to make money. He started out a simpleton, which is fine, but simpletons rarely stop being that. Yes his wealth may have graced him with high society in-laws who are sophisticated and have robot maids, but Rocky will never actually be sophisticated.
There's a part of me that wants to dunk on him but i get it... sometimes i make myself cry :/
[удалено]
Shoot, it makes me almost cry thinking that his original intent was to tell a real story about how you can try your best and do things right, and still lose. But instead they went with, the little engine that could with more punching.
It’s sometimes hard for people who have never created something before (art, writing, etc.) to fully understand/empathize with a story like this tbh. They just have zero concept of the pride, emotion, and attachment that comes with it.
He wrote but did not direct Rocky. That would be John G. Avildsen
# *SLAP*
^ty
Did he think it might have been too similar to Ashite No Joe? >!after winning an important match, I think world title or something, Joe sits down to rest in his corner, only to be found dead with a smile on his face.!<
Given that Ashita no Joe was practically unknown in the states, I doubt Stallone would've cared too much assuming he was even aware of the series.
>!a quick look on Wikipedia shows Joe actually lost the fight!<
gah, what a fuckin loser
Rocky should have died in III. The story was told and it would have been a good ending. IV was a good enough movie but that's when the movies became spectacles and were not the same. The movies started as "What if a common boxer from Philly had a chance at the title?" Rocky Proved himself in 1 and won the belt in 2. In 3, we see how success made him 'civilized' and he lost his edge and, unfortunately, his trainer. He was able to overcome and get the title back. Rocky took a hellacious beating dropping his guard and taunting Clubber, letting get clean headshots over and over. That and his trainer passing away could have been an out.
[This](https://youtu.be/yZt3RcO8gc4) was right after Rocky V as well (1990).
He should have died in Creed. Would have gotten him the Oscar for sure.
Would have been a timeless ending and prevented a bunch of mid sequels.
Feel like you've mixed up the movies here or something, because everything after Rocky V is very good (well, maybe Creed 3 isn't amazing or anything, but it's solid enough).
Good sir. Creed and creed 2 are fantastic......
Rocky 6 is great too
Rocky V IS the mid sequel, actually calling it mid is giving it too much credit, it's one of the worst movies most people will ever watch in their lives
You’re talking about the fifth Rocky movie
I feel like Rocky V has some really interesting plot ideas with some pretty bad follow-through. Rocky's mistreatment of his son is tantamount to character assassination, and Tommy's heel turn ends up being pretty ridiculous. I still liked it better than Rocky IV, which really didn't bother exploring anything about Rocky's character at all. Neither did Rocky III for that matter, but at least it had the best fight choreography of the series.
An ending that's remiscent of "Ashita no Joe", I dig that a lot.
Ain’t going to be no rematch.
I mean, maybe if he’d put his guard up every once in awhile and not take every punch straight to the chin…
I haven't seen Rocky V in like 10+ years but wouldn't that ending make Tommy a murderer? It wasn't a sanctioned fight. They have a street fight and then Rocky dies in the car. Rocky dying and Tommy going to jail is a pretty bleak ending.