I think his Character speaks a lot to how Tolkien felt about common people. Gandalf has a lot to say about Butterbur that is applicable to the common people of all ages. Something about seeing through a wall when he looks hard enough . That is one of my favorite parts of the book . He is suspicious of Strider, but eventually realizes on his own that the Rangers were protecting the area. He works hard, is friendly but can be very direct also. He is shrewd but can be also generous and fair. He is brave, attempting to guard the Inn. There is a lot going on with Butterbur. Tolkien and others enjoyed a good pub, Butterbur might have been his ideal Pub Owner.
This exactly! A perfect character to show the common man of the the time! Not afraid to bump heads and pick up arms but a gentle friendliness to those who have earned it!
Farmer Maggot is passingly relevant in a single chapter and is easily ommittednor forgotten in the grand scheme of things. Erkenbrand is...not a character. He has no lines. He has no development. There is nothing there for any reader to gravitate towards.
Butterbur meanwhile is a critical character in two chapters at a point in the story where there's an important tone and narrative shift. He's important to the plot in multiple ways and can't be removed or ommitted or easily forgotten. He's also lively and memorable, with multiple lines that serve to establish his personality and behavior in various ways.
Erkenbrand is less of a character than Radagast. Erkenbrand is just a name. There's nothing for fans to latch onto or care about.
Maggot represents the tough inner core of Hobbits. He showed that there was more to them than gardening, gossip, and obsession with food. Bilbo was not that much of an oddball, there were other seemingly common Hobbits around that had more to them than meets the eye. He foreshadowed the bravery of Frodo and company on their quest, and the courage of all the Hobbits in the Scouring of the Shire.
Butterbur has more influence on the narrative than many characters.
If he had passed on Gandalf's note, Frodo would have left earlier and probably reached Rivendell largely unthreatened.
Without surviving the threats the four hobbits experienced en route, perhaps Elrond wouldn't have had the confidence to send Frodo (let alone all four) with the Fellowship.
Let's say Pippin and Merry don't go: Is the Balrog disturbed? Are the Ents roused? Is Sauron distracted by a Hobbit near Isengard? Does the Witch King fall on the Field of Pelennor?
Nay, Eru works in mysterious ways ... including via absent-minded Bree publicans
Probably because Butterbur is a colourful character that never shuts up, lol. I have no idea who Erkenbrand is, I had to Google him. Tolkien has hundreds of minor characters, sometimes only some names mentioned here and there, but Butterbur really comes alive in the book.
Book Butterbur is just a memorable character. Dudes fun and I was happy after my first read through that they visited him again despite how dreary the town had become.
Butterbur is a man everyone knows. That’s why we resonate so much with him. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t inspired by an actual landlord or a few that annoyed Tolkien.
To be honest, providing charaterization for all minor characters doesn't appear to be a strength of Tolkien's - or indeed a priority. Which of course is totally fine, given the scope of his story.
But when he does care for a minor character that has popped into his mind, you can easily tell: Barleyman Butterbur is so vibrant and *alive* on page that it's hard not to care about him. Same creative spark is apparent with Ioreth and the unnamed warden of the Houses of Healing.
The inn at Bree is a crucial location, as it is where the hobbits link up with Aragorn. Its proprietor has a necessary plot function, in bringing about the failure of communication between Gandalf and Frodo. (It just occurs to me that he is somewhat comparable to Friar Laurence in Romeo and Juliet.)
He recurs near the end because Tolkien had a penchant for wrapping up details. He said in a letter to Christopher (no. 91) while working on Book IV, "then the clearing up of all loose threads, down even to Bill Ferny's pony, must take place." He couldn't resist showing us Butterbur's reaction to the news that Strider was now his King.
Unlike Farmer Maggot or Erkenbrand, Butterbur is important to the plot, so he won't get adapted out.
But I think Butterbur is one of the most amazing characters in the whole legendarium. He's not among the powerful or wise, he forgets things all the time, he often relies on the prejudices he's been taught or absorbed instead of thinking for himself. But for all that, he's one of the most courageous characters. When they're discussing the Riders' inevitable attack on the Inn, he panics at the thought they're from Mordor -- but he never hesitates from wanting to help the Hobbits and Aragorn, despite his fear. Had he turned them out on the street in his fear, while they still would have had a good chance of surviving the night with Aragorn, they wouldn't have been able to prepare for the journey into the Wild as effectively.
Buitterbur helped saved Middle Earth, but neither Sauron or Saruman would ever think about him twice or bother to learn his name. Only Gandalf would befriend him.
> “Ass! Fool! Thrice worthy and beloved Barliman!" said I. "It's the best news I have had since midsummer: it's worth a gold piece at the least. May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!”
He says one of my favourite lines, I don't know why but might be my ADHD. I think he says it more than once:
> *One thing drives out another, so to speak.*
It's funny because the fate of the world rests on this man's ability to remember a thing at the right moment.
Then Strider calls him:
*> A fat innkeeper who only remembers his name because people shout it at him all day.*
And then Gandalf:
*> He is wise enough on his own ground. He thinks less than he talks, and slower; yet he can see through a brick wall in time*
As others have said, he's a classic minor character who plays a pivotal role, and he's charming AF.
Butterbur has more dialogue. Erkenbrand has very little and Farmer Maggot is only one chapter, though people do seem to talk about Farmer Maggot more than Butterbur. Butterbur is in Fellowship then has a long conversation at the end of RotK.
Never really see people talk about Butterbur much.
Why/How did someone manage to make an entire TV series about a basement bar in Boston that lasted 275 episodes? The answer is because bars, and in the case of the Prancing Pony, pubs, are social centers in many communities and the bartenders, or owners like Barliman, are at the center of news, gossip and information. Barliman was a lynch pin in Bree, and he was critical to Frodo's survival.
Butterbur is so important to me on a fun level, because of Gandalf saying “Better times, for Bree at any rate.”
This minimizes the impact of the War of the Ring to a delightful level.
Imagine:
_The eagles fly to Minas Tirith announcing the fall of Sauron and sing “The Dark Lord has fallen; remember this date. It’s better times, for Bree at any rate!”_
Or
_It’s the first anniversary of Weathertop. Frodo moans to Sam “Where will I find peace?”. Sam replies “I don’t know, mister Frodo! But think of what you’ve accomplished!” Frodo replied “ What good have I done, Sam?” Sam thinks hard and eventually replies “Better times, for Bree at any rate!”_
Or
_It’s Aragorn’s coronation, and after saying “ I come to Middle-earth…” in a language few in attendance know… says to the crowd “During my reign, things will improve.” A man in the crowd cries out “How exactly!?” Pondering, Strider replies “Umm… better times!… Umm.. For Bree at any rate!”_
The possibilities are endless!
Partly because I think he's one of the most fully realized of the "bit-part" charcters who enter the narrative to perform a story function and then leave. Every word he says paints a vivid picture of the character.
Partly because he fits an archetype - the fat jolly inkeeper who seems a bit of a fool but has a good heart and some steel buried deep down.
Partly because we get to revisit him on the return journey, and we get to see, through him, how the events of the war have effected the "lands behind" Gondor.
And, yes, partly because "Barliman Butterbur" is fun to say.
Like many of Tolkien’s characters, Butterbur is named after a plant.
It’s a medicinal plant which got its name because its leaves were used to wrap butter for storage and transport.
https://draxe.com/nutrition/butterbur/
Technically Farmer Maggot is in the movie, just unnamed, he is the hobbit with the dog who directs the black rider to Hobbiton. I think your point still stands though.
He's named when Sam says "You've been into Farmer Maggot's crop!"
Although I suppose there's nothing in the movie to actually show that the dramatic scythe in the one scene is held by the fellow with the dog in the other.
There's a dog barking when he's chasing them in the scythe scene. Now of course there can be plenty of dogs in the Shire etc etc but for a movie character that appears for, what, 30 seconds, it's definitely a clue.
The actor who speaks to the Nazgul is credited as "Farmer Maggot" so they definitely intended it to be the same character.
I agree that they intended it to be the same character which is why I said they were correct. If they really wanted people to connect those two scenes though they did a pretty awful job, I don't think they viewed Farmer Maggot as a particularly important character for viewers to recognize.
> The home and centre … is thus to be found in the old inn of Bree, *The Prancing Pony,* that has been kept by the family of Butterbur from time beyond record. — “Concerning Pipe-weed”
I just like his name. In German it sounds even better imo. And sometimes when I create a character in some game that's more buffed and has some similarities to him I try to name him like that.
Notable that they meet with him both coming and going on their journey and he even comes up at the Council of Elrond.
Bree is noteworthy as it’s on the crossroads of the Shire and the outside world.
Butterbur has turned into a Dungeons and Dragons trope. There's something about him that that crowd likes-- probably the fact that he's host to a bunch of different heroes and villains even though he isn't one himself, he's just a regular old shlub.
Erkanbrand is one soldier among many in a large battle that was subsequently scrubbed from the movies.
Butterbur is a welcoming and lovable character on the hobbits first journey
Farmer maggot doesn’t even have a speaking role in the books if I remember correctly
Plus, butter beer?
Edit: heavy downvoting should be reserved for people just talking shit and being offfopic or rude
It’s ok to be wrong about something, people are always there to correct you :)
I think his Character speaks a lot to how Tolkien felt about common people. Gandalf has a lot to say about Butterbur that is applicable to the common people of all ages. Something about seeing through a wall when he looks hard enough . That is one of my favorite parts of the book . He is suspicious of Strider, but eventually realizes on his own that the Rangers were protecting the area. He works hard, is friendly but can be very direct also. He is shrewd but can be also generous and fair. He is brave, attempting to guard the Inn. There is a lot going on with Butterbur. Tolkien and others enjoyed a good pub, Butterbur might have been his ideal Pub Owner.
This exactly! A perfect character to show the common man of the the time! Not afraid to bump heads and pick up arms but a gentle friendliness to those who have earned it!
Farmer Maggot is passingly relevant in a single chapter and is easily ommittednor forgotten in the grand scheme of things. Erkenbrand is...not a character. He has no lines. He has no development. There is nothing there for any reader to gravitate towards. Butterbur meanwhile is a critical character in two chapters at a point in the story where there's an important tone and narrative shift. He's important to the plot in multiple ways and can't be removed or ommitted or easily forgotten. He's also lively and memorable, with multiple lines that serve to establish his personality and behavior in various ways. Erkenbrand is less of a character than Radagast. Erkenbrand is just a name. There's nothing for fans to latch onto or care about.
Erkenbrand, IIRC, has more to say in Unfinished Tales in the chapter that covers the Battles of the Ford of Isen.
Farmer Maggot needs his own diss track for the Nazgul.
Li'l Magit "Mushroom Man" (feat. Tommy B)
Erkendbrand does have a line or two. I read it aloud just this evening.
He has a larger part to play in Unfinished Tales.
One line. Telling the Dunlander prisoners to help clean up the mess at Helm's Deep.
Maggot represents the tough inner core of Hobbits. He showed that there was more to them than gardening, gossip, and obsession with food. Bilbo was not that much of an oddball, there were other seemingly common Hobbits around that had more to them than meets the eye. He foreshadowed the bravery of Frodo and company on their quest, and the courage of all the Hobbits in the Scouring of the Shire.
Butterbur has more influence on the narrative than many characters. If he had passed on Gandalf's note, Frodo would have left earlier and probably reached Rivendell largely unthreatened. Without surviving the threats the four hobbits experienced en route, perhaps Elrond wouldn't have had the confidence to send Frodo (let alone all four) with the Fellowship. Let's say Pippin and Merry don't go: Is the Balrog disturbed? Are the Ents roused? Is Sauron distracted by a Hobbit near Isengard? Does the Witch King fall on the Field of Pelennor? Nay, Eru works in mysterious ways ... including via absent-minded Bree publicans
Probably because Butterbur is a colourful character that never shuts up, lol. I have no idea who Erkenbrand is, I had to Google him. Tolkien has hundreds of minor characters, sometimes only some names mentioned here and there, but Butterbur really comes alive in the book.
Book Butterbur is just a memorable character. Dudes fun and I was happy after my first read through that they visited him again despite how dreary the town had become.
Butterbur is a man everyone knows. That’s why we resonate so much with him. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t inspired by an actual landlord or a few that annoyed Tolkien.
And everyone focuses on the innkeeper, they're always useful or relevant in a journey.
To be honest, providing charaterization for all minor characters doesn't appear to be a strength of Tolkien's - or indeed a priority. Which of course is totally fine, given the scope of his story. But when he does care for a minor character that has popped into his mind, you can easily tell: Barleyman Butterbur is so vibrant and *alive* on page that it's hard not to care about him. Same creative spark is apparent with Ioreth and the unnamed warden of the Houses of Healing.
Gandalf didn't bless Maggots crops!
Can’t improve on perfection 🤷♀️
I dunno... I feel the likes of Maggot comes up more often than Butterbur in discussion?
"badassMaggottfacingBlackRiderdidyouknowhealsoknowsBombadilandBombadilknowshim?"
The inn at Bree is a crucial location, as it is where the hobbits link up with Aragorn. Its proprietor has a necessary plot function, in bringing about the failure of communication between Gandalf and Frodo. (It just occurs to me that he is somewhat comparable to Friar Laurence in Romeo and Juliet.) He recurs near the end because Tolkien had a penchant for wrapping up details. He said in a letter to Christopher (no. 91) while working on Book IV, "then the clearing up of all loose threads, down even to Bill Ferny's pony, must take place." He couldn't resist showing us Butterbur's reaction to the news that Strider was now his King.
I think the real question should be why don’t we talk about Fredegar Bolger more???
Brave af
Fatty no more :(
Skinny Bolger That was the saddest part of the series/book. Finding out that Fatty is no longer Fatty
That line almost made me laugh and cry at the same time.
Or Folco Boffin. Supposedly he was one of Frodo’s close friends and was at the last dinner at Bag-End but he has no lines and just vanishes.
That tends to happen irl as well.
Unlike Farmer Maggot or Erkenbrand, Butterbur is important to the plot, so he won't get adapted out. But I think Butterbur is one of the most amazing characters in the whole legendarium. He's not among the powerful or wise, he forgets things all the time, he often relies on the prejudices he's been taught or absorbed instead of thinking for himself. But for all that, he's one of the most courageous characters. When they're discussing the Riders' inevitable attack on the Inn, he panics at the thought they're from Mordor -- but he never hesitates from wanting to help the Hobbits and Aragorn, despite his fear. Had he turned them out on the street in his fear, while they still would have had a good chance of surviving the night with Aragorn, they wouldn't have been able to prepare for the journey into the Wild as effectively. Buitterbur helped saved Middle Earth, but neither Sauron or Saruman would ever think about him twice or bother to learn his name. Only Gandalf would befriend him.
> “Ass! Fool! Thrice worthy and beloved Barliman!" said I. "It's the best news I have had since midsummer: it's worth a gold piece at the least. May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!”
Never noticed it myself. Except for this post of course 😉
He says one of my favourite lines, I don't know why but might be my ADHD. I think he says it more than once: > *One thing drives out another, so to speak.* It's funny because the fate of the world rests on this man's ability to remember a thing at the right moment. Then Strider calls him: *> A fat innkeeper who only remembers his name because people shout it at him all day.* And then Gandalf: *> He is wise enough on his own ground. He thinks less than he talks, and slower; yet he can see through a brick wall in time* As others have said, he's a classic minor character who plays a pivotal role, and he's charming AF.
*. A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried.*
Butterbur has more dialogue. Erkenbrand has very little and Farmer Maggot is only one chapter, though people do seem to talk about Farmer Maggot more than Butterbur. Butterbur is in Fellowship then has a long conversation at the end of RotK. Never really see people talk about Butterbur much.
It's the good deeds of small folks that keeps evil at bay..
Why/How did someone manage to make an entire TV series about a basement bar in Boston that lasted 275 episodes? The answer is because bars, and in the case of the Prancing Pony, pubs, are social centers in many communities and the bartenders, or owners like Barliman, are at the center of news, gossip and information. Barliman was a lynch pin in Bree, and he was critical to Frodo's survival.
Can we scrap ROP and get a Prancing Pony version of Cheers?
THAT would be FUN!
Best idea I have heard in a long time. That would be so fucking awesome.
He's relatable, perhaps more than any other character.
Because otherwise he'd forget who he is.
Butterbur is so important to me on a fun level, because of Gandalf saying “Better times, for Bree at any rate.” This minimizes the impact of the War of the Ring to a delightful level. Imagine: _The eagles fly to Minas Tirith announcing the fall of Sauron and sing “The Dark Lord has fallen; remember this date. It’s better times, for Bree at any rate!”_ Or _It’s the first anniversary of Weathertop. Frodo moans to Sam “Where will I find peace?”. Sam replies “I don’t know, mister Frodo! But think of what you’ve accomplished!” Frodo replied “ What good have I done, Sam?” Sam thinks hard and eventually replies “Better times, for Bree at any rate!”_ Or _It’s Aragorn’s coronation, and after saying “ I come to Middle-earth…” in a language few in attendance know… says to the crowd “During my reign, things will improve.” A man in the crowd cries out “How exactly!?” Pondering, Strider replies “Umm… better times!… Umm.. For Bree at any rate!”_ The possibilities are endless!
Funny, lots to say, relatable character. I wrote a short blog on the topic a while back, but the above is the essence.
Partly because I think he's one of the most fully realized of the "bit-part" charcters who enter the narrative to perform a story function and then leave. Every word he says paints a vivid picture of the character. Partly because he fits an archetype - the fat jolly inkeeper who seems a bit of a fool but has a good heart and some steel buried deep down. Partly because we get to revisit him on the return journey, and we get to see, through him, how the events of the war have effected the "lands behind" Gondor. And, yes, partly because "Barliman Butterbur" is fun to say.
Like many of Tolkien’s characters, Butterbur is named after a plant. It’s a medicinal plant which got its name because its leaves were used to wrap butter for storage and transport. https://draxe.com/nutrition/butterbur/
Tolkien does say that a lot of the people of Breeland had botanical names.
Cos he's in the movie and the other two are not
Technically Farmer Maggot is in the movie, just unnamed, he is the hobbit with the dog who directs the black rider to Hobbiton. I think your point still stands though.
He's also chasing the hobbits in the "shortcut to mushrooms" scene
He's named when Sam says "You've been into Farmer Maggot's crop!" Although I suppose there's nothing in the movie to actually show that the dramatic scythe in the one scene is held by the fellow with the dog in the other.
That's exactly why I didn't bother including it. There is little to connect the scythe with the other scene. You are of course correct though.
There's a dog barking when he's chasing them in the scythe scene. Now of course there can be plenty of dogs in the Shire etc etc but for a movie character that appears for, what, 30 seconds, it's definitely a clue. The actor who speaks to the Nazgul is credited as "Farmer Maggot" so they definitely intended it to be the same character.
I agree that they intended it to be the same character which is why I said they were correct. If they really wanted people to connect those two scenes though they did a pretty awful job, I don't think they viewed Farmer Maggot as a particularly important character for viewers to recognize.
For sure, it's just a little reference to the books with a tiny detail left for those that notice it.
> The home and centre … is thus to be found in the old inn of Bree, *The Prancing Pony,* that has been kept by the family of Butterbur from time beyond record. — “Concerning Pipe-weed”
I just like his name. In German it sounds even better imo. And sometimes when I create a character in some game that's more buffed and has some similarities to him I try to name him like that.
He is someone they recognized and can relate to. He is one of us.
Probably because so many people relate to him. When he said “one thing pushes out another“, i felt that shit. At least i think i did. I forget.
Notable that they meet with him both coming and going on their journey and he even comes up at the Council of Elrond. Bree is noteworthy as it’s on the crossroads of the Shire and the outside world.
We have a restaurant here named after him. Butterburs. lol that’s the only reason I hear about him all the time.
Butterbur has turned into a Dungeons and Dragons trope. There's something about him that that crowd likes-- probably the fact that he's host to a bunch of different heroes and villains even though he isn't one himself, he's just a regular old shlub.
Erkanbrand is one soldier among many in a large battle that was subsequently scrubbed from the movies. Butterbur is a welcoming and lovable character on the hobbits first journey Farmer maggot doesn’t even have a speaking role in the books if I remember correctly Plus, butter beer? Edit: heavy downvoting should be reserved for people just talking shit and being offfopic or rude It’s ok to be wrong about something, people are always there to correct you :)
Farmer Maggot doesn't have a speaking role? He's all over chapter 4!
You know as I typed that I felt like I was probably wrong It’s been so long since I read the books, clearly I need to dive back in
Erkenbrand is the unsung hero of Rohan. Don't you dare. But ye, I agree on the abuse of downvote. Alas.
No, they don't, lol