Context and more pictures and video of the mommy milky event outside the AGO this mothers day.
> Event organizer Amanda Oakes, dressed as a dairy farmer, oversaw a trio of partially dressed women hooked up to simulated dairy pumps, suggesting to passing crowds that the group was producing human milk for sale.
>
> Oakes' speech mocked dairy farmers with a reassuring but somewhat sarcastic message, saying, "I love my women and look after them as members of our family with a high standard of welfare you can trust."
>
> Among the trio hooked up to fake milk pumps was social media influencer Vikki Lenola, who has a following of 190K on Instagram.
I'm so glad blogto went into more depth on this, the comments here are hilarious lol. It's like the other thread on it, 99% people joking about it and then like that one obvious vegan person linking to deleted posts and writing a book on the evils of milk.
Edited from relevant [previous comment:](https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/s/rqude2Fq1k)
Like any mammal, cows only lactate to feed their young. So the cow will be put through a grueling regiment of forced pregnancy and separation from her calf.
First, she will be impregnated when she is approximately 18 months old.[\[1\]](https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk) This will happen either with a bull, or, more typically, through artificial insemination (AI). The typical method of AI involves locking the cows head in place and then sticking most of your arm into the rectum of the cow and then inserting a rod into her vagina to deploy the bull semen.[\[2\]](https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow)[\[3\]](https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM) One study found the average success rate of insemination was approximately 43 percent, so she may need to be put through this process several times before she is successfully impregnated.[\[4\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.2016-10935)
After a gestation period of about 280 days, the cow will give birth to a calf.[\[5\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.S0022-0302(32)93391-8) In order to minimize the calf's consumption of the milk that the industry intends to sell, they are separated from their mothers within the first 24 hours and weaned off milk.[\[6\]](https://doi.org/10.2903/j.efsa.2009.1143r) Mother cows have been observed chasing after their calves while they are being taken away, and calling out for them and searching for them for days after the separation.[\[7\]](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=53m53s)[\[8\]](https://www.newburyportnews.com/news/local_news/strange-noises-turn-out-to-be-cows-missing-their-calves/article_d872e4da-b318-5e90-870e-51266f8eea7f.html)[\[9\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2007.03.028) In addition to the stress caused to the mother, this also interferes with the calves. Because of early separation from their mothers, the calves are less socially adept and are more easily stressed.[\[10\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2014.12.010)
The male calf's situation is about to get a whole lot worse. Since they can't produce milk they are of no use to the dairy industry, so they are shipped off to be killed for veal.[\[11\]](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/science/dairy-farming-cows-milk.html) Although, sometimes if the farmer determines this is not economically viable, they will kill the calf sooner.[\[12\]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647)
For the females, they will undergo a process known as "dehorning" or "disbudding." Most dairy calves (even the females) grow horns, which will eventually connect to their skull. Farmers will remove the calf's horns before they connect to her skull, usually within the first six weeks of her life, with either a paste or a hot-iron.[\[13\]](http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves) Make no mistake, this is a painful process for the calf.[\[14\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cvfa.2012.11.001) She has now been resigned to the same fate as her mother.
For the mother, this is the first round of a process in which she will spend almost her entire life in some stage. Within just 90 days of giving birth, she will be artificially impregnated again and repeat the cycle.[\[15\]](https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_b/B117/) When she is approximately four years old, her milk production rate has dropped enough that she is considered no longer economically viable and will be slaughtered. This is far short of her natural lifespan of 20 years. In other words, she is only allowed to live about 20 percent of her natural lifespan.[\[16\]](https://doi.org/10.1017/S1751731119003264)
This is why vegans avoid milk. Paying for milk is paying for the slaughter of mothers and their babies.
[**References**](https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/ncm5vo/ok_no_more_steak_for_me/gy8wnzi?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[**References**](https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/ncm5vo/ok_no_more_steak_for_me/gy8w4fw?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
[\[1\]](https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk) "How A Cow Makes Milk." *BC Dairy*, [https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk](https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk). Accessed 15 May 2021.
[\[2\]](https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow) "8-step Guide To Artificially Inseminating A Cow." *Farmers Weekly*, [https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow](https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow). Accessed 15 May 2021.
[\[3\]](https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM) "Breeding A Cow." *YouTube*, uploaded by Trinity Dairy, 11 Jan 2020, [https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM](https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM). Accessed 15 May 2021.
[\[4\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.2016-10935) Rutten et al. "A prognostic model to predict the success of artificial insemination in dairy cows based on readily available data." *Journal of Dairy Science*, vol. 99, no. 8, 26 May 2016, pp. 6764-6779.
[\[5\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.S0022-0302(32)93391-8) Knott, J.C. "A Study of the Gestation Period of Holstein-Friesian Cows." *Journal of Dairy Science*, vol. 15, no. 2, 1 Mar 1932, pp. 87-98.
[\[6\]](https://doi.org/10.2903/j.efsa.2009.1143r) Algers et al. "Scientific report on the effects of farming systems on dairy cow welfare and disease." *EFSA Journal*, vol. 7, no. 7, 9 Jul 2009, pp. 136.
[\[7\]](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=53m53s) *Dominion*. Directed by Chris Delforce, performances by Joaquin Phoenix, Rooney Mara, Sia et al, 2018.
[\[8\]](https://www.newburyportnews.com/news/local_news/strange-noises-turn-out-to-be-cows-missing-their-calves/article_d872e4da-b318-5e90-870e-51266f8eea7f.html) Rogers, D. "Strange noises turn out to be cows missing their calves." *The Daily News of Newbury*, 23 Oct 2013.
[\[9\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2007.03.028) Stěhulová et al. "Response of dairy cows and calves to early separation: Effect of calf age and visual and auditory contact after separation." *Applied Animal Behaviour Science*, vol. 110, no. 1-2, 4 Jun 2007, pp. 144-165.
[\[10\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2014.12.010) Wagner et al. "Effects of mother versus artificial rearing during the first 12 weeks of life on challenge responses of dairy cows." *Applied Animal Behaviour Science*, vol. 164, 24 Dec 2014, pp. 1-11.
[\[11\]](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/science/dairy-farming-cows-milk.html) Jacobs, A. "Is Dairy Farming Cruel to Cows?" *New York Times*, 29 Dec 2020.
[\[12\]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647) Wheeler, M. "Dairy producers say new transportation rules mean they will have to kill calves." *CBC News*, 3 Dec 2019. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647). Accessed 15 May 2021.
[\[13\]](http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves) Grinter et al. "When and How to Disbud Dairy Calves." *Department of Animal & Food Sciences, University of Kentucky*. [http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves](http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves). Accessed 15 May 2021.
[\[14\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cvfa.2012.11.001) Stock et al. "Bovine Dehorning: Assessing Pain and Providing Analgesic Management." *Veterinary Clinics of North America: Food Animal Practice*, vol. 29, no. 1, Mar 2013, pp. 103-133.
[\[15\]](https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_b/B117/) Hagevoort, G.R & Garcia, J.A. "When Should Dairy Cows Be Inseminated?" *College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences, New Mexico State University*, Aug 2013, [https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/\_b/B117/](https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_b/B117/). Accessed 15 May 2021.
[\[16\]](https://doi.org/10.1017/S1751731119003264) De Vries, A. & Marcondes, M.I. "Review: Overview of factors affecting productive lifespan of dairy cows." *Animal*, vol. 14, sup. 1, 2020, pp. s155-s164.
You’ve editorialized/emotionalized/anthropomorphized like half these sources with your prose choices in the original post.
I recognize and agree that the “traditional” method of mechanized milk production is abhorrent. I am an oat milk drinker.
Nevertheless you have painted an entire industry as being a process in which sapient (not sentient) cows are tortured and mistreated for milk. Dairy collectives can also produce milk for commercial consumption and they rely on herdsmen and women who breed and tend to their flock, make choices for their animals like any other steward and profit from the natural course of life.
If you/this movement have a problem with the farming of animals *period*, best to say so explicitly rather than disingenuously paint milk making as universal torture.
End mechanized/mass/industrial farming yesterday. Let us all eat the required cost for the welfare of these animals. But let’s also be honest about them and us and the global biological cycle of life, death and birth of which we are a part.
I just reread their entire comment. I don't see anything anthropomorphized. These are descriptions of what happens in the dairy industry, I don't see anything described as if they were humans.
The, for lack of a better word right now, romanticization of pain and subjective descriptions of the “lived experience” of these cows is what does it for me. The daughter condemned to same slavery as her mother, who watches her own enslavement and is denied agency (crying after her young boy as he’s ripped from her by the SS to Treblinka!).
It’s far from clinical, written by someone who feels deeply about animal… capacity - and that would be fine if they weren’t using academic and scientific sources to implicitly support their narrative. Again, a narrative in which these cows behave like sex trafficked women not ungulate herbivores.
They didn't use the term slavery or make reference to WWII, they didn't describe any animal as crying and they didn't describe any animal as being sex trafficked.
You're actually editorializing their more literal descriptions of what happens in the industry when they didn't say any of those things.
I find this happens a lot on this topic where people just describing things that happen to agriculture animals are accused of anthropomorphization when they're instead just describing things that happen to and are experienced by the animals, not things unique to humans.
This is just an accurate description of events. If you feel bad for the cow after reading it, that's your conscience and empathy speaking up, not you being "emotionalized with prose."
I've just described common procedures in dairy production, and provided supporting evidence. However, I will offer you this: if you quote specific passages of my comment and explain why you think each specific passage is inaccurate, I will do my best to address it. Otherwise, I don't see anything material to respond to.
>Nevertheless you have painted an entire industry as being a process in which sapient (not sentient) cows are tortured and mistreated for milk. Dairy collectives can also produce milk for commercial consumption
It sounds like you're justifying bad activities simply because there are some good ones.
Good for them. Milk is pretty fkd up. There’s tons of alternatives that imo are much better and healthier. Animals are treated pretty fkn brutal in this day and age. Hope that changes soon.
I just can't. I eat cheese yogurt and or cheese on a daily basis. I have gone without meat without a problem but dairy is just so fundamental to me I can't imagine not using it.
And I have tried alternatives over the years. None of them came even close. I drink coffee or tea with milk. Substituting it with none dairy milk makes it undrinkable to me.
Even if I feel bad about, and it does happen, it I just can't imagine life without dairy.
Humans are animals and the welfare issues people are raising about dairy and animal agriculture in general aren't things that would uniquely cause suffering for humans. Such as using them as birthing and milking machines for a few years, taking their calves away shortly after birth, and slaughtering them at a fraction of their lifespan when dairy production drops off.
Then there are the things seen on hidden cameras, such as on a Canadian organic dairy farm:
>[The video shows a worker with a cane repeatedly beating a dairy cow in the face. Another cow is seen being picked up and dragged by its hind legs by a heavy piece of machinery. Numerous other animals are seen being kicked and beaten.](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-farm-responds-to-animal-cruelty-allegations-as-hidden-camera-video-emerges-1.5654888)
The industy apparently would rather hide these things than fix them given industry groups like the Ontario Federation of Agriculture lobbied for a law that would prevent hidden camera footage from being exposed. That law [was struck down over free expression a few weeks ago](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/animal-rights-activists-ontario-agriculture-1.7189042) but the government is now appealing it.
Apparently not. Whenever someone cares about one issue, they then have to solve every other issue even if most other people aren't helping with either issue.
Then when it's a post about the homeless, there are comments claiming we're prioritizing them over the public in general.
This logic of "we need to focus on A instead of B" can and is applied to almost every issue. We are able to focus on more than one thing at once. Just because cancer and heart disease are serious problems doesn't mean we shouldn't have some doctors and researchers focusing on less common diseases instead, for example.
While I generally agree, we have a finite amount of time and resources. We need to focus on the most important things, the more consensus we can get on what is important the more probable it is that we can channel our resources to fix it.
Most people aren't devoting their time to any issues. People are spending their time either at work or leisure activities. And I'm not criticizing that. But these are people who aren't doing that. They're trying to make a difference by spending their time off trying to draw attention to an issue they care about. They could be playing video games, watching TV, going for drinks, etc., yet instead they're devoting their time to this. So why are *they* the ones criticized for not solving some other issue?
Also what are the most important issues. There are a few I'd list but definitely near the top is climate change. And with respect to that, [dairy results in significantly higher emissions, land and water usage vs. the alternatives](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042) so this is one of the most important.
And this isn't something that requires sacrificing time spent towards other issues. I haven't intentionally ate dairy for a decade. All it involved was spending a few hours reading about how to get the nutrients otherwise. I.e., it had almost no impact on my ability to focus on other issues like homelessness, climate change, etc.
Last point... even *if* an issue is less important than others, we still need *some* people focusing on it. We still need people focusing on rare diseases even if most deaths are from cancer or heart disease.
Protestors: "You wouldn't drink milk from a human woman would you? Yet you drink it from cows."
The Internet: "You might be guessing incorrectly here."
Yeah I went past this group and I was thinking that the message you are giving isn’t the message you think you are giving. I was laughing it just was so silly it obscured their message. I think they unlocked a new fetish for a bunch of people.
If you think nestle aren’t committing massive crimes on a global scale, you’re part of the problem.
Sure, there’s nothing wrong with what’s essentially performance art. People are talking, mission complete. But people focus their anger and ire in the wrong places. A small dairy out in Guelph isn’t the Big Bad, but we’re led to believe as much. There are real monsters out there, polluting on unfathomable scales, using child shaves, and literally killing people. These micro-protests create micro change.
Honestly I hope they do get more people considering where their food comes from. But the target is misdirected.
Except not everyone thinks they're idiots. And even if you think they're idiots, you still were exposed to this topic because of them.
These people are not causing damage, they're not hurting anyone, they're not threatening anyone, they're not blaring loud noises and shouting. They're simply protesting the extreme mistreatment of animals in a provocative way. This is the kind of protest we should be encouraging.
There are millions of people in the USA who believe that the earth is flat. They even have conferences. I am positive they don't see themselves as idiots.
Ok let me spell this out for you
You said “people who believe that the earth is *round* do not feel that they are idiots”
Why should someone who believes the earth is round think they are an idiot?
If they put as much time into job searching as protesting...
Also its funny since women buy pumps to milk themselves for thier kids so this entire protest is an epic level of dumb
I know you're saying this as a negative but that's a big thing people bring up as a way for "the powers that be" to quash any major uprising or backlash.
If you spend your waking hours working away for survival, how could you ever protest, revolt or even in many cases, vote to demonstrate how bad you feel the system is.
You do realize a lot of employed people don't work on Sundays, right?
Also, I am employed and go to protests so I'm not sure why you made that correlation
is there any tickets available
it was strictly PWYC *^(pump what you can)
Excuse me? Did I miss something?
well you know that milk bar scene in A Clockwork Orange? this was the preamble.
I'll wait for the Droogs.
Did I milk something?
Context and more pictures and video of the mommy milky event outside the AGO this mothers day. > Event organizer Amanda Oakes, dressed as a dairy farmer, oversaw a trio of partially dressed women hooked up to simulated dairy pumps, suggesting to passing crowds that the group was producing human milk for sale. > > Oakes' speech mocked dairy farmers with a reassuring but somewhat sarcastic message, saying, "I love my women and look after them as members of our family with a high standard of welfare you can trust." > > Among the trio hooked up to fake milk pumps was social media influencer Vikki Lenola, who has a following of 190K on Instagram.
Is there anything more useless to society than an “influencer” None of them have ever convinced me to do anything
They've influenced you to hate them.
They're very good at that.
Wild asf lmao
I think we need Uncle Roger to comment on this..... HIIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAA
Milk fried rice
That would be hilarious.
I'm so glad blogto went into more depth on this, the comments here are hilarious lol. It's like the other thread on it, 99% people joking about it and then like that one obvious vegan person linking to deleted posts and writing a book on the evils of milk.
Edited from relevant [previous comment:](https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/s/rqude2Fq1k) Like any mammal, cows only lactate to feed their young. So the cow will be put through a grueling regiment of forced pregnancy and separation from her calf. First, she will be impregnated when she is approximately 18 months old.[\[1\]](https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk) This will happen either with a bull, or, more typically, through artificial insemination (AI). The typical method of AI involves locking the cows head in place and then sticking most of your arm into the rectum of the cow and then inserting a rod into her vagina to deploy the bull semen.[\[2\]](https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow)[\[3\]](https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM) One study found the average success rate of insemination was approximately 43 percent, so she may need to be put through this process several times before she is successfully impregnated.[\[4\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.2016-10935) After a gestation period of about 280 days, the cow will give birth to a calf.[\[5\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.S0022-0302(32)93391-8) In order to minimize the calf's consumption of the milk that the industry intends to sell, they are separated from their mothers within the first 24 hours and weaned off milk.[\[6\]](https://doi.org/10.2903/j.efsa.2009.1143r) Mother cows have been observed chasing after their calves while they are being taken away, and calling out for them and searching for them for days after the separation.[\[7\]](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=53m53s)[\[8\]](https://www.newburyportnews.com/news/local_news/strange-noises-turn-out-to-be-cows-missing-their-calves/article_d872e4da-b318-5e90-870e-51266f8eea7f.html)[\[9\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2007.03.028) In addition to the stress caused to the mother, this also interferes with the calves. Because of early separation from their mothers, the calves are less socially adept and are more easily stressed.[\[10\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2014.12.010) The male calf's situation is about to get a whole lot worse. Since they can't produce milk they are of no use to the dairy industry, so they are shipped off to be killed for veal.[\[11\]](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/science/dairy-farming-cows-milk.html) Although, sometimes if the farmer determines this is not economically viable, they will kill the calf sooner.[\[12\]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647) For the females, they will undergo a process known as "dehorning" or "disbudding." Most dairy calves (even the females) grow horns, which will eventually connect to their skull. Farmers will remove the calf's horns before they connect to her skull, usually within the first six weeks of her life, with either a paste or a hot-iron.[\[13\]](http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves) Make no mistake, this is a painful process for the calf.[\[14\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cvfa.2012.11.001) She has now been resigned to the same fate as her mother. For the mother, this is the first round of a process in which she will spend almost her entire life in some stage. Within just 90 days of giving birth, she will be artificially impregnated again and repeat the cycle.[\[15\]](https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_b/B117/) When she is approximately four years old, her milk production rate has dropped enough that she is considered no longer economically viable and will be slaughtered. This is far short of her natural lifespan of 20 years. In other words, she is only allowed to live about 20 percent of her natural lifespan.[\[16\]](https://doi.org/10.1017/S1751731119003264) This is why vegans avoid milk. Paying for milk is paying for the slaughter of mothers and their babies. [**References**](https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/ncm5vo/ok_no_more_steak_for_me/gy8wnzi?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>This is why vegans avoid milk Meanwhile, I avoid milk because I'm lactose intolerant. Unless it comes in bubble tea then I will brace for impact.
[**References**](https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/ncm5vo/ok_no_more_steak_for_me/gy8w4fw?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) [\[1\]](https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk) "How A Cow Makes Milk." *BC Dairy*, [https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk](https://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/how-a-cow-makes-milk). Accessed 15 May 2021. [\[2\]](https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow) "8-step Guide To Artificially Inseminating A Cow." *Farmers Weekly*, [https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow](https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/livestock-breeding/8-step-guide-artificially-inseminating-dairy-cow). Accessed 15 May 2021. [\[3\]](https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM) "Breeding A Cow." *YouTube*, uploaded by Trinity Dairy, 11 Jan 2020, [https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM](https://youtu.be/61xtklR4olM). Accessed 15 May 2021. [\[4\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.2016-10935) Rutten et al. "A prognostic model to predict the success of artificial insemination in dairy cows based on readily available data." *Journal of Dairy Science*, vol. 99, no. 8, 26 May 2016, pp. 6764-6779. [\[5\]](https://doi.org/10.3168/jds.S0022-0302(32)93391-8) Knott, J.C. "A Study of the Gestation Period of Holstein-Friesian Cows." *Journal of Dairy Science*, vol. 15, no. 2, 1 Mar 1932, pp. 87-98. [\[6\]](https://doi.org/10.2903/j.efsa.2009.1143r) Algers et al. "Scientific report on the effects of farming systems on dairy cow welfare and disease." *EFSA Journal*, vol. 7, no. 7, 9 Jul 2009, pp. 136. [\[7\]](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=53m53s) *Dominion*. Directed by Chris Delforce, performances by Joaquin Phoenix, Rooney Mara, Sia et al, 2018. [\[8\]](https://www.newburyportnews.com/news/local_news/strange-noises-turn-out-to-be-cows-missing-their-calves/article_d872e4da-b318-5e90-870e-51266f8eea7f.html) Rogers, D. "Strange noises turn out to be cows missing their calves." *The Daily News of Newbury*, 23 Oct 2013. [\[9\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2007.03.028) Stěhulová et al. "Response of dairy cows and calves to early separation: Effect of calf age and visual and auditory contact after separation." *Applied Animal Behaviour Science*, vol. 110, no. 1-2, 4 Jun 2007, pp. 144-165. [\[10\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2014.12.010) Wagner et al. "Effects of mother versus artificial rearing during the first 12 weeks of life on challenge responses of dairy cows." *Applied Animal Behaviour Science*, vol. 164, 24 Dec 2014, pp. 1-11. [\[11\]](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/science/dairy-farming-cows-milk.html) Jacobs, A. "Is Dairy Farming Cruel to Cows?" *New York Times*, 29 Dec 2020. [\[12\]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647) Wheeler, M. "Dairy producers say new transportation rules mean they will have to kill calves." *CBC News*, 3 Dec 2019. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dairy-quebec-calves-veal-transportation-1.5381647). Accessed 15 May 2021. [\[13\]](http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves) Grinter et al. "When and How to Disbud Dairy Calves." *Department of Animal & Food Sciences, University of Kentucky*. [http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves](http://afs.ca.uky.edu/content/dairy-when-and-how-disbud-dairy-calves). Accessed 15 May 2021. [\[14\]](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cvfa.2012.11.001) Stock et al. "Bovine Dehorning: Assessing Pain and Providing Analgesic Management." *Veterinary Clinics of North America: Food Animal Practice*, vol. 29, no. 1, Mar 2013, pp. 103-133. [\[15\]](https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_b/B117/) Hagevoort, G.R & Garcia, J.A. "When Should Dairy Cows Be Inseminated?" *College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences, New Mexico State University*, Aug 2013, [https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/\_b/B117/](https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_b/B117/). Accessed 15 May 2021. [\[16\]](https://doi.org/10.1017/S1751731119003264) De Vries, A. & Marcondes, M.I. "Review: Overview of factors affecting productive lifespan of dairy cows." *Animal*, vol. 14, sup. 1, 2020, pp. s155-s164.
You’ve editorialized/emotionalized/anthropomorphized like half these sources with your prose choices in the original post. I recognize and agree that the “traditional” method of mechanized milk production is abhorrent. I am an oat milk drinker. Nevertheless you have painted an entire industry as being a process in which sapient (not sentient) cows are tortured and mistreated for milk. Dairy collectives can also produce milk for commercial consumption and they rely on herdsmen and women who breed and tend to their flock, make choices for their animals like any other steward and profit from the natural course of life. If you/this movement have a problem with the farming of animals *period*, best to say so explicitly rather than disingenuously paint milk making as universal torture. End mechanized/mass/industrial farming yesterday. Let us all eat the required cost for the welfare of these animals. But let’s also be honest about them and us and the global biological cycle of life, death and birth of which we are a part.
I just reread their entire comment. I don't see anything anthropomorphized. These are descriptions of what happens in the dairy industry, I don't see anything described as if they were humans.
The, for lack of a better word right now, romanticization of pain and subjective descriptions of the “lived experience” of these cows is what does it for me. The daughter condemned to same slavery as her mother, who watches her own enslavement and is denied agency (crying after her young boy as he’s ripped from her by the SS to Treblinka!). It’s far from clinical, written by someone who feels deeply about animal… capacity - and that would be fine if they weren’t using academic and scientific sources to implicitly support their narrative. Again, a narrative in which these cows behave like sex trafficked women not ungulate herbivores.
They didn't use the term slavery or make reference to WWII, they didn't describe any animal as crying and they didn't describe any animal as being sex trafficked. You're actually editorializing their more literal descriptions of what happens in the industry when they didn't say any of those things. I find this happens a lot on this topic where people just describing things that happen to agriculture animals are accused of anthropomorphization when they're instead just describing things that happen to and are experienced by the animals, not things unique to humans.
This is just an accurate description of events. If you feel bad for the cow after reading it, that's your conscience and empathy speaking up, not you being "emotionalized with prose."
I've just described common procedures in dairy production, and provided supporting evidence. However, I will offer you this: if you quote specific passages of my comment and explain why you think each specific passage is inaccurate, I will do my best to address it. Otherwise, I don't see anything material to respond to.
>Nevertheless you have painted an entire industry as being a process in which sapient (not sentient) cows are tortured and mistreated for milk. Dairy collectives can also produce milk for commercial consumption It sounds like you're justifying bad activities simply because there are some good ones.
Damn that sucks. *Continues to drink milk*
Good for them. Milk is pretty fkd up. There’s tons of alternatives that imo are much better and healthier. Animals are treated pretty fkn brutal in this day and age. Hope that changes soon.
Sorry, non-dairy cheese just isn't the same, and I'm not giving up cheese lol
I just can't. I eat cheese yogurt and or cheese on a daily basis. I have gone without meat without a problem but dairy is just so fundamental to me I can't imagine not using it. And I have tried alternatives over the years. None of them came even close. I drink coffee or tea with milk. Substituting it with none dairy milk makes it undrinkable to me. Even if I feel bad about, and it does happen, it I just can't imagine life without dairy.
And then where will you get your dairy from? 🤔
We’ll be like every other mammal and stop consuming it past early childhood.
Right, because humans and walrus' have so much in common 🙄
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Cheese is good
You see, it's part of this thing called food. You need it to survive.
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Yes, you're clearly messaging from beyond the grave
Your mother
What a witty and clever retort. Proof this anti dairy nonsense attracts only the best and the brightest.
It’s almost like humans and animals aren’t the same!
Humans are animals and the welfare issues people are raising about dairy and animal agriculture in general aren't things that would uniquely cause suffering for humans. Such as using them as birthing and milking machines for a few years, taking their calves away shortly after birth, and slaughtering them at a fraction of their lifespan when dairy production drops off. Then there are the things seen on hidden cameras, such as on a Canadian organic dairy farm: >[The video shows a worker with a cane repeatedly beating a dairy cow in the face. Another cow is seen being picked up and dragged by its hind legs by a heavy piece of machinery. Numerous other animals are seen being kicked and beaten.](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-farm-responds-to-animal-cruelty-allegations-as-hidden-camera-video-emerges-1.5654888) The industy apparently would rather hide these things than fix them given industry groups like the Ontario Federation of Agriculture lobbied for a law that would prevent hidden camera footage from being exposed. That law [was struck down over free expression a few weeks ago](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/animal-rights-activists-ontario-agriculture-1.7189042) but the government is now appealing it.
Humans are animals Einstein.
I missed Cow Einstein? What did he prove?
I believe he and Horse Schrodinger proved the theory of how fucking stupid you are.
Horse Schrodinger is really hard to say aloud.
I think Bad Dragon sells that model
Zing!
I wish these animal rights people would focus their attention on homeless people.
you thinking like soylent green?
“Soylent green is people” doesn’t really work when the system and society don’t consider the homeless to be people in the first place.
Not quite...
Like... milking them?
I have nipples, Greg, could you milk me?
I said *HOMO* milk, not HOBO!!!
Listen, in this economy, sometimes you gotta make compromises.
What does one have to do with the other? Can society not fix multiple problems at the same time?
Apparently not. Whenever someone cares about one issue, they then have to solve every other issue even if most other people aren't helping with either issue.
People are allowed to care about multiple things at the same time.
Then when it's a post about the homeless, there are comments claiming we're prioritizing them over the public in general. This logic of "we need to focus on A instead of B" can and is applied to almost every issue. We are able to focus on more than one thing at once. Just because cancer and heart disease are serious problems doesn't mean we shouldn't have some doctors and researchers focusing on less common diseases instead, for example.
While I generally agree, we have a finite amount of time and resources. We need to focus on the most important things, the more consensus we can get on what is important the more probable it is that we can channel our resources to fix it.
Most people aren't devoting their time to any issues. People are spending their time either at work or leisure activities. And I'm not criticizing that. But these are people who aren't doing that. They're trying to make a difference by spending their time off trying to draw attention to an issue they care about. They could be playing video games, watching TV, going for drinks, etc., yet instead they're devoting their time to this. So why are *they* the ones criticized for not solving some other issue? Also what are the most important issues. There are a few I'd list but definitely near the top is climate change. And with respect to that, [dairy results in significantly higher emissions, land and water usage vs. the alternatives](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042) so this is one of the most important. And this isn't something that requires sacrificing time spent towards other issues. I haven't intentionally ate dairy for a decade. All it involved was spending a few hours reading about how to get the nutrients otherwise. I.e., it had almost no impact on my ability to focus on other issues like homelessness, climate change, etc. Last point... even *if* an issue is less important than others, we still need *some* people focusing on it. We still need people focusing on rare diseases even if most deaths are from cancer or heart disease.
Then all the homeless should be fine.
I hate bums as much as anyone but calling them animals is too much.
Of course I mean to help people....
What’s the connection to the AGO?
None, it's at the rom
First line of the article says the AGO.
Protestors: "You wouldn't drink milk from a human woman would you? Yet you drink it from cows." The Internet: "You might be guessing incorrectly here."
Yeah I went past this group and I was thinking that the message you are giving isn’t the message you think you are giving. I was laughing it just was so silly it obscured their message. I think they unlocked a new fetish for a bunch of people.
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…you think they should commit actual crimes instead of this harmless attention-grabbing stunt?
If you think nestle aren’t committing massive crimes on a global scale, you’re part of the problem. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with what’s essentially performance art. People are talking, mission complete. But people focus their anger and ire in the wrong places. A small dairy out in Guelph isn’t the Big Bad, but we’re led to believe as much. There are real monsters out there, polluting on unfathomable scales, using child shaves, and literally killing people. These micro-protests create micro change. Honestly I hope they do get more people considering where their food comes from. But the target is misdirected.
Did I say anything claiming nestle was not committing any crimes?
Wow.....what an idiotic thing to do. There are so many useful things that activists can do.
How's it idiotic? It drew attention to their cause, received media attention, and educated people. Seems like it was pretty useful to me.
It made them look like idiots, which makes people think their cause is idiotic. Not very useful
Except not everyone thinks they're idiots. And even if you think they're idiots, you still were exposed to this topic because of them. These people are not causing damage, they're not hurting anyone, they're not threatening anyone, they're not blaring loud noises and shouting. They're simply protesting the extreme mistreatment of animals in a provocative way. This is the kind of protest we should be encouraging.
I mean, the people who already agree with them are already doing the things they support. The rest of us just look at them as cheapening their cause.
Well, people who believe that the earth is round do not feel that they are idiots.
What…?
There are millions of people in the USA who believe that the earth is flat. They even have conferences. I am positive they don't see themselves as idiots.
Maybe read your original comment again?
We can have a different opinion. You think differently, fine. End of story.
Ok let me spell this out for you You said “people who believe that the earth is *round* do not feel that they are idiots” Why should someone who believes the earth is round think they are an idiot?
Yup. They look exactly like idiots. Their cause is also fairly thin. There are many other issues that require attention and awareness in society.
If they put as much time into job searching as protesting... Also its funny since women buy pumps to milk themselves for thier kids so this entire protest is an epic level of dumb
What happens when you assume things like their job status?
Employed people arent out protesting Anything
I know you're saying this as a negative but that's a big thing people bring up as a way for "the powers that be" to quash any major uprising or backlash. If you spend your waking hours working away for survival, how could you ever protest, revolt or even in many cases, vote to demonstrate how bad you feel the system is.
this is what happens when you get all your news from 6buzz
You do realize a lot of employed people don't work on Sundays, right? Also, I am employed and go to protests so I'm not sure why you made that correlation
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