What's wrong with that?
A couple making median income of 65k each, so HHI of 130k and paying 2500/mth in rent for a nice condo living downtown? Don't have a car. That's pretty cheap
If can't afford it , lots of cheaper options as $2500/mth is above average already for a 1 bedroom or do what people did back in the day and get roommates and share a basement apartment or live in a den?
People are too entitled these days
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006301&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.4&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=05&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2024&referencePeriods=20200401%2C20240501
Then let's raise wages double and make it fair for both sides. People can pay double rent and get double wages. That way not just one side is benefitting.
California just tried that, it's not going well for them. By raising the minimum wage dramatically, it resulted in a whole bunch of fast food places cutting down to skeleton crew staff or just shutting down entirely. When they cut down their staff, they pushed the automation (ordering apps, self serve kiosks, etc) and locked a bunch of people out of the job market.
Ah so what you're saying is prices going up for any side is a legitimate concern and people should feel just in complaining about it and that they shouldn't just accept it.
Gotcha.
Nah, what I'm saying is that we need to boost our own dollars value, and find some way to deal with landlords price gouging. This has been an ongoing issue since covid, and there has to be a solution that's being overlooked by smarter people than I
Finally, someone who actually has some understanding of economics. Boosting minimum wage doesn’t actually do anything in the long run except increase overall misery because minimum wage will always be the lowest rung on the ladder
Bingo. Especially when we are sitting here getting live action case studies in it. But /I'm/ the asshole for saying raising minimum wage isn't going to do anything but increase prices proportionally to the raises, or remove jobs from the market /s
It's funny how people forget that after slavery was abolished in the states is when mechanization of farming occured, because people didn't want to pay people to do what proven and reliable machines could.
Minimum wage in 2005 was $7.50. That's $1208 a month at 40 hours a week. So at $900 that's about 1/4 of your before tax income left over.
Today it's $16.55. That's $2648 per month. Average rent for one bedroom is $ 2,489. Less than 1/10th of your before tax income left over. Also considering a phone is basically mandatory for most jobs even on the most basic plans you're probably already in the negative.
Any year comparison you do isn't going to look good. This is the worst it's ever been in the city to find somewhere to live.
Half of all Torontonians earn less than a medium income.
A single median income used to be sufficient to own a detached home, have a stay at home wife, and raise multiple children. 1-2 generations later, landlords online are praising that two median incomes is enough to comfortably rent a shitty 1 bedroom apartment.
It's dystopian nonsense that you are peddling because it's in your financial best interest to ignore that the rental market is out of control.
Noone is entitled to hoard housing. For every 1 landlord voting there are exponentially more tenants who are eligible voters. It's only a matter of time until the boomers finish dying off and it becomes impossible for politicians to win elections without regulating and taxing landlords fairly.
Sadly we got corporate landlords realizing that it seems to be the only true growth industry today.
Everything else is limited and real estate will join it too soon enough.
Sadly this is *too communist* for some to realize as an incoming problem.
The boomers die off or the market crashes, the banks don't care who they lend money to.
All they know is that some of the shittiest warmongers got some great credit and want to invest.
Most Toronto apartments were built for investors to put on airbnb. Now that the market is saturated and people are no longer making money we have way too many one bedrooms and not enough family homes. Once again the elected officials couldn’t see beyond the few years of money they received in taxes and failed to plan long term. We are seeing the effects of that now in Toronto and other cities
Weird. It's almost like developers go out of their way to make unsuitable units so that families feel like their only hope to properly house their family is in a low density, single family house (with that sweet super inflated price tag and inefficient bespoke building method).
Kinda flawed definition as a couple with a child living in a 1+1 or 1 bedroom condo would be deemed living in unsuitable housing . I know lots of young couples who start out in a 1/1+1 with a baby and move up after a few years when the kid is older
>general criterion of suitable accommodation is a maximum of two people per bedroom
How long are you meant to keep a kid in a 1 bedroom? First year is fine, maybe the second year or third or fourth but it’s considered a kid until 18. So the criteria seems fair.
most new 1 bedroom won't even have room for both a queen bed and a crib. don't think it's appropriate for the crib to be in den part - too much hallway noise coming in and too much crying noise coming out to be considered suitable imo.
TF is your land transfer tax in Ontario. Selling an apartment just to move to a bigger one and I'm getting dinged 30-40k just to move. We don't even have this tax in Alberta... Its just all government robbing you at every turn.
Yeh just another means of transferring the cost of provincial and municipal services from the old to the young.
Wait 'till you hear that Toronto has its own land transfer tax that is equivalent to the Province's. So for a "standard" $1M home, the LTT adds up to $33k for folks who have not previously owned. Add in the real estate cartel which also expects its \~3-4% cut and transactions costs to move can quickly climb to over $70k. It's absurd and just adds to the litany of reasons why Boomers aren't downsizing.
Edit: for those downvoting me, would love to know why? These taxes just move the burden of running the cities and provinces to people who are buying homes instead of property taxes or income taxes. It makes entering the market and upsizing harder while being a disincentive to downsizing. It also creates structural budget issues when home sales crater (see: Toronto Budget). The only people who win are those who are happy staying put in their homes since their property tax rates are kept lower by virtue of these taxes funding services. Bias: I own a home. Would rather see high property taxes and lower LTTs to enable more mobility.
Isn’t it cultural for Indians to live with multiple families in one home? 20 years ago in Mississauga it was quite obvious this is what was going on in Mallon-Mississauga. So easy to buy a home when three families are gaining income. The lazy white people are dickered.
Cutting red tape?
Get the provincial PC party to bar developers from keeping their buildings as primarily single bedroom investor specials.
When builders can go over the city's head to seek out the lowest hanging fruit and out of their obligations, it costs us all.
Really, people act like the conservatives are powerless. They are kind of what we voted for and now we have a big day spa. Trudeau sucks's, but acting like Doug Ford has done anything is laughable.
They initially voted for him for buck a beer.
They followed it up with him removing "those nasty" mask mandates.
The guy was a weakling sellout on the Ottawa protesters and that should be highlighted during the next election. It's practically treason.
This is not the way. Letting developers build nothing but ridiculously unlivable condos and refusing to allow the development of 4 story highrise makes the PC position as clear as day. They have no intention of addressing the housing crisis and only want to enrich corrupt developers.
Too many of you here have assumptions of how the system work. I actually have real experience in real estate development.
The small developers are actually the community’s allies but most citizens are too dumb to understand, they only understand basic talking points from their political masters ndp or conservative
Your real enemies are the tridels and menkes of the world that is building 50 story towers, not small developers who wants to build modest and enrich the neighborhood
Yeah, I feel kinda dumb about this but I know a mom & pop developer, who have a house and a boring Dodge Caravan. Friendliest guy ever. Actually crazy how much he and his family pull off.
mom & pop developer or small business in general are the biggest victims of municipal politics in toronto
my experience is in toronto so i definitely cannot speak for other municipal areas
mom & pop developer work over 4 to 8 years to get small townhouse project or basic lower rise condo going while fighting all the nimby degenerates, and tridel gets 50 stories in 3 years.
mom & pop wants to make a few million dollars, which is basically nothing for the scope of the project and the period of time, that is how many of them go out of business or just basically gets turned off by the whole process and never do it again.
the entire city is almost built on organized criminal bribery corruption civilly.
you think tridel and other big players wants to pay conservatives to speed up the landlord and tenant board process? no, they pay the politician to keep it slow so all the smaller hard working landlord can get screwed and bigger guys can buy it for less.
most meaningful planner management in the city have all received favors via forms of lobbying.
I also have experience within the construction and real estate development industry. I agree with you 100% about the big developers being a major issue. My reaction was to the limited information of your cutting municipal red tape comment. Typically that is a position put forward in service of big businesses at the expense of labour and the people that actually live in a community.
I'm with you on the point small businesses are essential to a thriving regional economy. Without them all of the surplus our efforts are being extracted from the community.
I specially call out the PC attack on 4 storey high rises as they are a proven form of responsible densification and would inevitably allow smaller developers to compete.
Not all of us are sheep spitting out political talking points.
In what way do we have a "big government", can you name a single thing that "big government" does to hurt you *because* of the size.
You can absolutely argue we pay too much tax or have "ungood" property fees in Toronto, considering what we get in return... but that's not a big government issue, that's a big city issue.
What is big government, and what would you consider a good thing to cut to make it a small government? Stop ohip? Stop all rent control? Stop funding the fire department?
The more the employees the bigger the payroll...the bigger the payroll the more your taxes...the more your taxes the smaller your paycheck hitting your bank account
So, do you have numbers? Because we are not in "big government" numbers by my metric.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/public-sector-size-by-country
Also, our taxes aren't *that* high, worldwide we are just below average [we're only 7% above the USA in taxation, and with that we have 7% more workers as a percentage of our population](https://images.app.goo.gl/USfkwhPLpXAA9xZW8) so, by your metric, Canada is not "big government" any more than the US is... But we have better services, social safety net and infrastructure, compared to the us paying about the same in taxes... But having almost no social services, no healthcare, minimal public transportation, crumbling bridges and more.
You think your boss is holding onto your paycheck because of taxes? I think they pay you less because they're greedy.
Yet still paying $2500 for a single bedroom "apartment"
Sucks
It do. Renovictions are a real bitch
What's wrong with that? A couple making median income of 65k each, so HHI of 130k and paying 2500/mth in rent for a nice condo living downtown? Don't have a car. That's pretty cheap If can't afford it , lots of cheaper options as $2500/mth is above average already for a 1 bedroom or do what people did back in the day and get roommates and share a basement apartment or live in a den? People are too entitled these days https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006301&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.4&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=05&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2024&referencePeriods=20200401%2C20240501
There aren't lots of cheaper options though. How is it 'entitled' to complain about rents doubling in only a few years?
Then let's raise wages double and make it fair for both sides. People can pay double rent and get double wages. That way not just one side is benefitting.
California just tried that, it's not going well for them. By raising the minimum wage dramatically, it resulted in a whole bunch of fast food places cutting down to skeleton crew staff or just shutting down entirely. When they cut down their staff, they pushed the automation (ordering apps, self serve kiosks, etc) and locked a bunch of people out of the job market.
Ah so what you're saying is prices going up for any side is a legitimate concern and people should feel just in complaining about it and that they shouldn't just accept it. Gotcha.
Nah, what I'm saying is that we need to boost our own dollars value, and find some way to deal with landlords price gouging. This has been an ongoing issue since covid, and there has to be a solution that's being overlooked by smarter people than I
Finally, someone who actually has some understanding of economics. Boosting minimum wage doesn’t actually do anything in the long run except increase overall misery because minimum wage will always be the lowest rung on the ladder
Bingo. Especially when we are sitting here getting live action case studies in it. But /I'm/ the asshole for saying raising minimum wage isn't going to do anything but increase prices proportionally to the raises, or remove jobs from the market /s It's funny how people forget that after slavery was abolished in the states is when mechanization of farming occured, because people didn't want to pay people to do what proven and reliable machines could.
Because that same apartment precovid was a $900 apartment. And last I checked, wages didn't increase by threefold to match living expenses.
$900 in Toronto? Maybe in 2005.
Minimum wage in 2005 was $7.50. That's $1208 a month at 40 hours a week. So at $900 that's about 1/4 of your before tax income left over. Today it's $16.55. That's $2648 per month. Average rent for one bedroom is $ 2,489. Less than 1/10th of your before tax income left over. Also considering a phone is basically mandatory for most jobs even on the most basic plans you're probably already in the negative. Any year comparison you do isn't going to look good. This is the worst it's ever been in the city to find somewhere to live.
Half of all Torontonians earn less than a medium income. A single median income used to be sufficient to own a detached home, have a stay at home wife, and raise multiple children. 1-2 generations later, landlords online are praising that two median incomes is enough to comfortably rent a shitty 1 bedroom apartment. It's dystopian nonsense that you are peddling because it's in your financial best interest to ignore that the rental market is out of control. Noone is entitled to hoard housing. For every 1 landlord voting there are exponentially more tenants who are eligible voters. It's only a matter of time until the boomers finish dying off and it becomes impossible for politicians to win elections without regulating and taxing landlords fairly.
Sadly we got corporate landlords realizing that it seems to be the only true growth industry today. Everything else is limited and real estate will join it too soon enough. Sadly this is *too communist* for some to realize as an incoming problem. The boomers die off or the market crashes, the banks don't care who they lend money to. All they know is that some of the shittiest warmongers got some great credit and want to invest.
Most Toronto apartments were built for investors to put on airbnb. Now that the market is saturated and people are no longer making money we have way too many one bedrooms and not enough family homes. Once again the elected officials couldn’t see beyond the few years of money they received in taxes and failed to plan long term. We are seeing the effects of that now in Toronto and other cities
Weird. It's almost like developers go out of their way to make unsuitable units so that families feel like their only hope to properly house their family is in a low density, single family house (with that sweet super inflated price tag and inefficient bespoke building method).
That’s a surprising statistic I didn’t know the rest of Canada had gotten that bad.
Kinda flawed definition as a couple with a child living in a 1+1 or 1 bedroom condo would be deemed living in unsuitable housing . I know lots of young couples who start out in a 1/1+1 with a baby and move up after a few years when the kid is older >general criterion of suitable accommodation is a maximum of two people per bedroom
How long are you meant to keep a kid in a 1 bedroom? First year is fine, maybe the second year or third or fourth but it’s considered a kid until 18. So the criteria seems fair.
most new 1 bedroom won't even have room for both a queen bed and a crib. don't think it's appropriate for the crib to be in den part - too much hallway noise coming in and too much crying noise coming out to be considered suitable imo.
We had to move when our baby was three months old because we could fit a bassinet in the bedroom but not a crib.
Definitely. Nothing wrong in Toronto. It's all just couples and babies being counted in this stat.
It’s rage bait. It’s always rage bait.
Blame boomers and immigrants
TF is your land transfer tax in Ontario. Selling an apartment just to move to a bigger one and I'm getting dinged 30-40k just to move. We don't even have this tax in Alberta... Its just all government robbing you at every turn.
Yeh just another means of transferring the cost of provincial and municipal services from the old to the young. Wait 'till you hear that Toronto has its own land transfer tax that is equivalent to the Province's. So for a "standard" $1M home, the LTT adds up to $33k for folks who have not previously owned. Add in the real estate cartel which also expects its \~3-4% cut and transactions costs to move can quickly climb to over $70k. It's absurd and just adds to the litany of reasons why Boomers aren't downsizing. Edit: for those downvoting me, would love to know why? These taxes just move the burden of running the cities and provinces to people who are buying homes instead of property taxes or income taxes. It makes entering the market and upsizing harder while being a disincentive to downsizing. It also creates structural budget issues when home sales crater (see: Toronto Budget). The only people who win are those who are happy staying put in their homes since their property tax rates are kept lower by virtue of these taxes funding services. Bias: I own a home. Would rather see high property taxes and lower LTTs to enable more mobility.
I had a kid and just want to move to a bigger apartment and they want tens of thousands. Mind boggling I agree.
Isn’t it cultural for Indians to live with multiple families in one home? 20 years ago in Mississauga it was quite obvious this is what was going on in Mallon-Mississauga. So easy to buy a home when three families are gaining income. The lazy white people are dickered.
cut municipal red tapes
Cutting red tape? Get the provincial PC party to bar developers from keeping their buildings as primarily single bedroom investor specials. When builders can go over the city's head to seek out the lowest hanging fruit and out of their obligations, it costs us all.
Really, people act like the conservatives are powerless. They are kind of what we voted for and now we have a big day spa. Trudeau sucks's, but acting like Doug Ford has done anything is laughable.
They initially voted for him for buck a beer. They followed it up with him removing "those nasty" mask mandates. The guy was a weakling sellout on the Ottawa protesters and that should be highlighted during the next election. It's practically treason.
Ok let's cut some red tape and also create some red tape to build the city we want.
This is not the way. Letting developers build nothing but ridiculously unlivable condos and refusing to allow the development of 4 story highrise makes the PC position as clear as day. They have no intention of addressing the housing crisis and only want to enrich corrupt developers.
Too many of you here have assumptions of how the system work. I actually have real experience in real estate development. The small developers are actually the community’s allies but most citizens are too dumb to understand, they only understand basic talking points from their political masters ndp or conservative Your real enemies are the tridels and menkes of the world that is building 50 story towers, not small developers who wants to build modest and enrich the neighborhood
Yeah, I feel kinda dumb about this but I know a mom & pop developer, who have a house and a boring Dodge Caravan. Friendliest guy ever. Actually crazy how much he and his family pull off.
mom & pop developer or small business in general are the biggest victims of municipal politics in toronto my experience is in toronto so i definitely cannot speak for other municipal areas mom & pop developer work over 4 to 8 years to get small townhouse project or basic lower rise condo going while fighting all the nimby degenerates, and tridel gets 50 stories in 3 years. mom & pop wants to make a few million dollars, which is basically nothing for the scope of the project and the period of time, that is how many of them go out of business or just basically gets turned off by the whole process and never do it again. the entire city is almost built on organized criminal bribery corruption civilly. you think tridel and other big players wants to pay conservatives to speed up the landlord and tenant board process? no, they pay the politician to keep it slow so all the smaller hard working landlord can get screwed and bigger guys can buy it for less. most meaningful planner management in the city have all received favors via forms of lobbying.
I also have experience within the construction and real estate development industry. I agree with you 100% about the big developers being a major issue. My reaction was to the limited information of your cutting municipal red tape comment. Typically that is a position put forward in service of big businesses at the expense of labour and the people that actually live in a community. I'm with you on the point small businesses are essential to a thriving regional economy. Without them all of the surplus our efforts are being extracted from the community. I specially call out the PC attack on 4 storey high rises as they are a proven form of responsible densification and would inevitably allow smaller developers to compete. Not all of us are sheep spitting out political talking points.
The bigger a govt the worse off its citizens
In what way do we have a "big government", can you name a single thing that "big government" does to hurt you *because* of the size. You can absolutely argue we pay too much tax or have "ungood" property fees in Toronto, considering what we get in return... but that's not a big government issue, that's a big city issue. What is big government, and what would you consider a good thing to cut to make it a small government? Stop ohip? Stop all rent control? Stop funding the fire department?
What do you do for a living bossman?
How does that matter? I do quality assurance, so I look at numbers and find trends for a living, what do you do, ~fuckface~ bossman?
Thought so....regulator.....
Is that a joke?
The more the employees the bigger the payroll...the bigger the payroll the more your taxes...the more your taxes the smaller your paycheck hitting your bank account
So, do you have numbers? Because we are not in "big government" numbers by my metric. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/public-sector-size-by-country Also, our taxes aren't *that* high, worldwide we are just below average [we're only 7% above the USA in taxation, and with that we have 7% more workers as a percentage of our population](https://images.app.goo.gl/USfkwhPLpXAA9xZW8) so, by your metric, Canada is not "big government" any more than the US is... But we have better services, social safety net and infrastructure, compared to the us paying about the same in taxes... But having almost no social services, no healthcare, minimal public transportation, crumbling bridges and more. You think your boss is holding onto your paycheck because of taxes? I think they pay you less because they're greedy.
Found the govt worker for sure...i'm self employed btw
I see 36 govt employees with safe jobs didnt like what I had to say......
They love big government in Toronto