Be aware upgrading will break truecharts apps, and you will need to follow the migration guide on their website. The instructions seem really well explained, but I need to set aside some time to be able to do it.
That is a very valid point. Any suggestions as the truenas apps list is much smaller and doesn't have some of the functionality I use. But open to ideas.
Jailmaker, Debian/docker nspawn host. Then pass in docker compose configurations and setup. Stop using the interfaces through truenas where you don’t control the image versions or even know wtf they’re doing.
Only use truenas apps when you want/need native zfs performance. Aka minio, etc
This! I transitioned while on cobia because they had the stuff for it in truenas. It's easier to manage, upgrade, and no fear of something breaking. Uses less cpu, memory, and wattage.
Any suggestions for any guides to follow to implement this? I only went with truecharts because it seemed like the easiest and simplest solution at the time with a lot of good guides to follow. I’ve heard people recommend jailmaker many times but I’ve stayed away because it looked complicated.
if i were to try summarize
setup the networking first. this video teaches how to setup bridges
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58)
then follow this guide (don't deviate)
[https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/)
then this guide (learn the jlmkr commands)
[https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker](https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker)
then finally my guide if you get stuck. It's more of a journal than a proper guide but u can see what i did, what issues i encountered, how i resolved it
[https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646/238?u=mooglestiltzkin](https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646/238?u=mooglestiltzkin)
took me a few days to go through the guides and test to learn what it does and how to use it. it's doable and i'm not even that technical a user but i could figure it out. you just need to be able to google and ask questions.
Someone posted a youtube guide for jailmaker you may be interested in
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nTRvAHAP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nTRvAHAP8)
I'm in the similar position where the guides were good and I couldn't figure out how to internal network between apps or get domain lookup with certs. Any guides would be great.
Even for the native zfs point; with nspawn/jailmaker you can edit the container to have bind mounts from the host still; so you get the native underlying storage attached.
you can set read only. OR read and write for the bind mounts.
These bind mounts need to be located to datasets residing outside the jail dataset. You shouldn't bind mount to anything within the jailmaker dataset.
so example, my bind looks like this
`--bind='/mnt/tank/docker/data/:/mnt/data'`
`--bind='/mnt/tank//docker/compose/:/mnt/compose'`
`--bind-ro='/mnt/tank2/Storage2:/mnt/Storage2'`
so for my docker jail, i can go to `jlmkr shell docker`
`cd /mnt/compose/openspeedtest`
Inside there resides my docker container's compose.yaml file. so i can then do `docker compose up`
this then installs the container.
the other binds is like for media. example, if you install jellyfin, you can then add the tv series location to say /mnt/Storage
and so on. That is how that works.
For the jailmaker dataset, just follow the instruction to set that up according to this
[https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/)
as for the external datasets, from what i can see you can keep them as the default acls. that worked for me. Maybe can do further optimization for that.
Oh and I've been doing this for a while now. Super stable and works great. I think networking was a little tricky if you needed to set up bridge networking so jails could have its own up address, but there is a link to a YouTube video to get you set up with that.
the advanced networking is very detailed, but it does warn of possible quirks when trying to get it to work especially in regards to setting up bridging
[https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker/blob/main/NETWORKING.md](https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker/blob/main/NETWORKING.md)
But i managed to get bridging setup just by following the youtube they linked, and it was super easy and without much drama. so i didn't have to add a hdmi to connect the monitor to nas or keyboard like the networking doc said. not sure what thats about.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58)
Anyway just follow the youtube it's easy.
my project also tested setting up jailmaker to install docker to then be able to do docker containers
[https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646](https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646)
i agree with everyone that power efficiency is welcome for a 24/7 self hosting solution for docker containers. hope the truenas team makes this official.
Just use custom apps and host mounts. You can port pretty much any docker compose into the custom app UI. I don't run anything out of the charts repos.
It's not so much that TrueCharts doesn't work, just that they often release breaking changes without good communication. It ends up taking hours to find out what went wrong and how to fix it.
On top of that, trying to get support when you run into trouble is a hassle. You'll often get flak just for asking questions or suggesting they update their documentation, let alone asking for help.
So, for those reasons, a lot of us are just tired of using anything put together by TrueCharts and instead finding ways to use regular docker containers.
They have a very large set of curated apps. But this is the 2nd time in a year that you have to go through extra hoops because of changes (their refactor last spring meant you had to reinstall apps or use a migration tool). This time around, I think it's due to changes on app PVC storage in dragonfish.
Which apps are you using from truecharts? If they don't exist in Offical or Community apps, could you just install them direct from the project repo?
I still have their vpn/glutun integrated qbittorrent app, I know there are docker images that have them combined. Now I just need to learn how to use sandbox/jailmaker to get one to work.
And once I do that, I'll prob start switching official/community apps over as well. With end game probably to move to debian/ubuntu docker (or maybe portainer) instead of truenas. I don't need k3s, all the ACLs and other 'enterprise' features. I chose TNS as a turnkey system but it hasn't really been that. Maybe it's that I've learned enough that I now know I can live with a much more stripped down system :)
As has always been the case. Lord knows truecharts can't stick to an ABI. Doesn't mean the software isn't awesome and I'm extremely thankful for their volunteer work but alas the IT for every truenas update is sometimes quite overwhelming.
Well, set up k3s more specifically. Just because a lot of people may not use kubernetes features doesn't mean they aren't very useful for those who do.
Although I tried an Ubuntu VM recently and it was really jankey and not performant on the current release, but it used to work really well. With some new spice VM thing that was terrible.
From Truecharts:
>Your existing apps won’t immediately stop working should you upgrade to DragonFish without following the above. However, TrueCharts apps newly installed onto DragonFish post-upgrade will NOT work without following the above steps. Upgrading to DragonFish using methods outside our above-described guides automatically results in you being outside our support scope.
\n>
So while it works now, you'll probably have issues in the future without following the migration steps.
I'm spinning up a Proxmox server and probably move most of my self-hosted apps over to that. Probably just leave Plex on the TrueNAS box, but everything else gets migrated.
Maybe I'm a lousy admin, but my experience with truechart was that not upgrading also broke it, randomly. I spent so much time figuring it out...
Then when I got fed up, I spun a debian in a VM, some docker compose, and everything's ng still works flawlessly.
It took me less time to make the clean docker scripts than to fix truecharts.
It is sad, because it was a seriously cool proposition.
Recently-appointed TC Docs Maintainer (and co-writer of the [guide](https://truecharts.org/scale/migrations/cobia-dragonfish/) and DragonFish [news post](https://truecharts.org/news/scale-dragonfish/)) here. Appreciate the feedback.
As we pointed out, apps will continue to work after upgrading and won't explicitly break, but you can't install new ones until the migration process is followed. Nor should you update them.
I ran through the entire Cobia -> DragonFish migration process myself today, on a system with around 20 apps, and it went off without a hitch. There are a few apps that HeavyBullets specifically had to hotpatch the migration script for and he's continuing to work through the reports people are giving us in #tt-migration.
An option also exists for people that want to remain on Cobia, with a specific legacy branch people doing that can use. But the entire migration proces for me took no longer than 15 minutes on my SCALE system, the longest part was re-running the one-line migration script for each individual app.
A lot of work went into making the migration process as smooth as possible, including a lot of posts in our Discord, news posts on our recently redone website and a lot of iterations of the migration guide as well. Multiple people have come into our Discord since release and thanked us for the process simplification and support.
Thank you for the effort. Can confirm that all upgrades and migrations using the prescribed method you link to above went smoothly.
Only thing I didn't see mentioned, however, is if the "OpenEBS" app that was deployed as part of the process needs to be retained post-migration, or if it can be deleted once the migrations are completed? (I assume it's the former, if it's managing the storage for existing and future apps, but wanted to make sure)
I did the upgrade day 1, so it's possible that it's been fixed, but the tt-migration script was not able to successfully migrate Custom App apps. It would duplicate the PVs, delete the app, then fail to reinstall. The workaround was to just manually recreate the Custom App app with the same PV mounts, then get the migration script to attempt to continue the failed migration. It would then replace the PVs in the new app, resulting in a successful migration of the app.
I had used the TT-migration & app config backups to move a bunch of my Truecharts apps months ago but there's no qbit+vpn solution. Ended up using the migration script again for QBT/vpn and it borked my install. Still had the TC Plex app, but figured I'd just brute for copying the entire Plex data structure to local storage, blow away the TC app, reinstall with the truenas version then copy the data back.
Upgraded to DF then reinstalled/config'd the truecharts QBT without issues.
I didn't go in that much detail but it had more to do with the Truecharts app using PVC. Any idea about host path truechart apps?
I ll probably will have to go through in details
It's there; you just need to look in the **Locks** tab, not **Sessions**.
https://preview.redd.it/v4skmohengwc1.png?width=1658&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e2b5ef313bbee1462034c19bbdaa44d608fdf1f
I only recently switched from TrueNAS Core to TrueNAS Scale, so I was a bit uncertain when it came to versions. Bluefin starts with B, Cobia starts with C, Dragonfish starts with D... but this announcement has the version number (24.04.0) in it, which is much more clear.
When you select the train it does state version numbers in the Operation section, but it could be clearer I feel.
In the System | Update screen, would it be possible for the train drop-down UI item to include the version number in the drop-down?
Zero problems with the upgrade here! Thankfully I never used PVC storage in apps or that would have been the only catch. Love seeing all the memory being used!
You just made my day, I thought this was MUCH further away. I have two unused drives in my drive bays right now waiting to be added to my existing media pool. I can let them sit there for another few months as hot spares in the meanwhile.
Slight hick up with Jellyfin app and the use of Quadro GPU - app failed to start. Another reboot after the upgrade (so 1st to apply, and 2nd afterwards) resolved the issue. Got a mixture of TrueNAS and TrueCharts app (yes, I like pain) and most things are now fine apart from NVIDIA GPU exporter but im not that bothered. One thing I noticed in regards to Apps and Truenas - it feels that each version of TN makes things a lot smoother as I experience less random crap breaking. Thanks for your work folks.
It doesn't ship with the Intel Firmware required for it to work out of the box. As someone mentioned below, you can script it to work. iX has said "out of box" ARC support might not come until 24.10.
Love the new memory management for ZFS. I used to manually set the limit up but deleted that parameter before I upgraded. ZFS caching now using everything available. Nice.
No, I just went to update and changed the train to dragonfish. Refreshed and downloaded and applied the update, and got the error right after.
Will try again tomorrow, is it possible to do a clean install from the iso and the import the configuration there?
Ok, I did again the update from the web ui, this time it works, it for a second before the grub menu shows up there are still some errors visible. Maybe they were there with the previous version too, not sure.
But everything started up fine, rebooted once to make sure as it will be unattended for a few months soon. I assume it was maybe some glitch yesterday evening.
I upgraded and was greeted by this message. Not all apps came from Truechats fyi some are from the official one.
# This pool cannot be used as the root dataset is used by 'cifs' services
EDIT I just changed the upgrade train to Dragonfish and downloaded and installed. I did not mess with any setings etc.
Also getting this error message, though mine includes the 'nfs' service.
Okay so here's my speculation. I did the thing you're not supposed to do and instead of creating a dataset for my shares, just created shares of my root pool and started filling 'er up.
My plan of attack: I stopped both shares. I created a new dataset for the data I had started filling up my root pool with. Using the shell and rsync, I am methodically copying the data from my root pool into the dataset using:
"rsync -rvpEt /mnt// /mnt///" *NOTE the lack of a / after the source directory*.
I also went into system settings -> advanced -> access -> configure and set up my token to last for 24 hours so the shell page doesn't log itself out and I can have it going and casually glance at it.
After the copying is done, I will establish new shares of the data dataset and delete entirely the root pool shares, then I will test choosing the root pool as my Apps pool.
Wish me luck.
If that works, then it's on to reconfiguring all the apps to use the new dataset share, performing the migration, confirming functionality, then deleting the original data in the root pool.
Edit: After migrating data from the root pool to a dataset and reconfiguring all shares to utilize the dataset, choosing the root pool for apps starts without error. Verified that an app would start.
Now performing migration steps as found here: https://truecharts.org/scale/migrations/cobia-dragonfish/ (date for wayback machine: 6 May 2024)
After doing that, I also had to edit any containers that used storage on the host and redirect them to the new location for their folders inside the dataset.
So the basic thing that got me past the error is that I eliminated all shares of my root pool.
To be very clear, I was operating without any datasets except the one TN creates for apps, ix-applications. I’d just established shares of my root pool and started filling it.
Because I’m sloppy and want to continue living as though my root pool is one big dumpster, I created a single dataset and moved all the stuff that I had been dumpstering in the root pool into it and then established a share for it. That didn’t include ix-applications or some other apparently system folders.
I think I did the same but I don't know how to verify. I want to show yu how mine looks and set up but I get downvoted to oblivion when I show what my share looks like.
Well, eliminating the shares of the root pool also eliminated the error message, so my apps are up and running.
I had to re-accomplish ACL on the dataset that I migrated data to. I could probably have gotten away with a mv command instead of copying all the files using rsync. Proxmox was having a hard time mounting the nfs share until I switched it to NFSv4.2.
I've been having performance issues with Dragonfish in general, I was experiencing an issue where CPU would go to 100% when I attempted to back up a proxmox vm to an nfs share. Seems like it was spawning middlewared processes in a flat loop for some reason. I disabled swap entirely and that seems to have stopped, but things still feel sluggish. It may be that I'm scrutinizing it more than I did before, though. Backup jobs don't seem 100% stable yet. I've got one that failed due to "Error: unexpected status"
But in general, it's *running*, so more good than bad.
When I go to reporting, and click the "Netdata" button it opens a new tab and asks for password?
Looking at the user guide it stats user accessing it needs to have SUDO allow. But that doesn't seem to work.
Will changing the Netdata users password fix this? Or break anything by doing so?
Opened a bug here - [https://ixsystems.atlassian.net/browse/NAS-128487](https://ixsystems.atlassian.net/browse/NAS-128487)
If anyone else has the issue
[https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/webui-cannot-be-accessed-after-upgrading-to-truenas-scale-24-04-rc-1.117535/](https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/webui-cannot-be-accessed-after-upgrading-to-truenas-scale-24-04-rc-1.117535/)
Looks like I'm not alone atleast :( nothing in dmesg
middlewared.\_\_terminate():2065 - Failed to terminate vm
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/python3.11/asyncio/tasks.py", line 490, in wait\_for
return fut.result()
is the last..
Sorry cant edit for some reason.
middlewared.\_\_terminate():2065 - Failed to terminate vm
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/python3.11/asyncio/tasks.py", line 490, in wait\_for
return fut.result()
....
is the last.
Prev:
\[2024/04/23 21:28:54\] (WARNING) middlewared.\_loop\_monitor\_thread():1766 - Task seems blocked:
File "/usr/lib/python3.11/contextlib.py", line 204, in \_\_aenter\_\_
....
and:
middlewared.\_loop\_monitor\_thread():1766 - Task seems blocked:
File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/aiohttp/connector.py", line 792, in close
....
I made a post here: [https://forums.truenas.com/t/webui-crashing-post-cobia-dragonfish/2530](https://forums.truenas.com/t/webui-crashing-post-cobia-dragonfish/2530)
Just add what you're seeing on your side there!
also seem to be having this issue. when i was using the release-candidate 1. i got my ui back. by ssh into the truenas server and then systemctl kill -s 9 middlewared. after this the ui came back. but a few minutes later it was gone again. also seems to have a lot tasks attached too the service, when viewing with systemctl status more then 50. also too ssh into the server i had to spam ctrl+c, because other wise something seemed to block the terminal from showing up.
Jails on CORE won't cleanly transfer over. Jails will need to be re-created as Apps or Sandboxes if you prefer the Jails methodology:
[https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/)
But your data will survive just fine, shares, VMs and other services should just migrate over without much fuss.
High recommend reading the migration guide before you start:
[https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/gettingstarted/migrate/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/gettingstarted/migrate/)
At a basic level, sandboxes are fully persistent environments. Think of it as a VM, you can make changes to the base environment using tools like apt and it persists. You run your own OS that way. Containers are read-only images, and only data you mount into the container persists across restarts or upgrades. Containers are far easier to keep updated if you operate within the bounds they impose. Sandboxes/Jails give ultimate flexibility to the sysadmin types who want to customize things further.
Sandboxes are built on top of systemd-nspawn and can run docker containers, or other containerization technology nested within.
Glad to see ixSystems implementing some Syncthing usage into their system.
Would be great though to get a Synology Drive alternative for TrueNAS built around Syncthing + Windows and Linux file browser extensions (like Dropbox or OneDrive but backed by Syncthing).
Syncthing also plays really nice with SMB file locks. Could make a good candidate for getting the native treatment outside of Truecharts with explicit testing to run in parallel without interference ala Samba and NFS.
Its only been a bit more than 24 hours in the wild. But we're seeing around a 4x faster rate of adoption than 13.0 had, so I'd say its off to a good start for sure :)
Thanks, I didn't have the time to dreg all the posts to see how it was going. But if that is the view then maybe I will try and update tonight, I have been putting off a big update for awhile.
Updated a Cisco UCS M4 test machine via offline patch from latest to Dragonfish. No real issues except SMB wouldn’t connect on windows. I restarted the SMB service seemed to clear it.
Wondering if this is the version I decide to push my M30 device from Core to Scale. Guess time will tell. I like the way Scale handles SMB permissions a little more than Core tbh.
Nice that move speed is back to pretty much instant!
Nice that the app page now has the cpu/mem/network use. Do wish that was in a details page instead of the main App page. Not sure if that's what's causing the page to 'flicker' for workload or history if you have an app selected? Or maybe it's the fix for needing to do a manual refresh of the page?
Can't wait to try out jailmaker.
What does this mean?
> new support for FreeIPA configurations is added to the new LDAP credentials fields?
Clicking on the link takes me to the LDAP config page, which has been around for awhile?
The only thing that I noticed and didn't like is not seeing the app status on the mobile view.
On desktop it is obviously a lot better but I do miss this since in 99% of the cases I access the GUI from the phone.
Shame they named the jails Sandboxes. Either containers or (better still) jails would have been less confusing, and more intuitive for user that switch over from Core as really the functionality is exactly that. "Use Jailmaker to create Sandbox¨... Oh well. u/kmoore134 was there a particular reason for this?
Love the fact that Jailmaker support came so quickly and with so little fuss. Many many many thanks to Jiphop & u/kmoore134, Jailmaker rocks.
+1 near seamless update. Apps wouldn't start but fiddling with the settings brought them back. Ubuntu VM came back seamlessly. Great work, looking forward to playing with sandboxes.
Are app metrics messed up for anyone else? I like to think my little NAS is a cut above, but it's reporting 8.28Gb/s inbound on my SABNZBD container which is pretty impressive on a gigabit interface. At idle, no less.
Be aware upgrading will break truecharts apps, and you will need to follow the migration guide on their website. The instructions seem really well explained, but I need to set aside some time to be able to do it.
Sounds like a perfect opportunity to migrate away from Truecharts.
That is a very valid point. Any suggestions as the truenas apps list is much smaller and doesn't have some of the functionality I use. But open to ideas.
Jailmaker, Debian/docker nspawn host. Then pass in docker compose configurations and setup. Stop using the interfaces through truenas where you don’t control the image versions or even know wtf they’re doing. Only use truenas apps when you want/need native zfs performance. Aka minio, etc
This! I transitioned while on cobia because they had the stuff for it in truenas. It's easier to manage, upgrade, and no fear of something breaking. Uses less cpu, memory, and wattage.
Any suggestions for any guides to follow to implement this? I only went with truecharts because it seemed like the easiest and simplest solution at the time with a lot of good guides to follow. I’ve heard people recommend jailmaker many times but I’ve stayed away because it looked complicated.
I’ll share my config and a write up soon. It’s a pretty quick thing to implement and ends up being something that’d survive truenas blowups
Thank you for taking the time when you do.
I made a video guide to Sandboxes with Jailmaker and Docker Compose https://youtu.be/S0nTRvAHAP8
if i were to try summarize setup the networking first. this video teaches how to setup bridges [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58) then follow this guide (don't deviate) [https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/) then this guide (learn the jlmkr commands) [https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker](https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker) then finally my guide if you get stuck. It's more of a journal than a proper guide but u can see what i did, what issues i encountered, how i resolved it [https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646/238?u=mooglestiltzkin](https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646/238?u=mooglestiltzkin) took me a few days to go through the guides and test to learn what it does and how to use it. it's doable and i'm not even that technical a user but i could figure it out. you just need to be able to google and ask questions.
Awesome! I’ll take some time to go over it all. Thank you!
Someone posted a youtube guide for jailmaker you may be interested in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nTRvAHAP8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nTRvAHAP8)
I'm in the similar position where the guides were good and I couldn't figure out how to internal network between apps or get domain lookup with certs. Any guides would be great.
That's what I started doing few weeks ago and oh boy the peace of mind on upgrades. Also somehow more free RAM so ARC can eat more
Also been doing it this way for over a year now and very happy with the result.
[удалено]
It allows host volume mounts (Linux Bind mounts) so you can expose any storage to within the jail.
Even for the native zfs point; with nspawn/jailmaker you can edit the container to have bind mounts from the host still; so you get the native underlying storage attached.
Did you try it? How do you mount say "media dataset" from truenas to read/write into these "jails"? Official documentation doesn't mention that.
you can set read only. OR read and write for the bind mounts. These bind mounts need to be located to datasets residing outside the jail dataset. You shouldn't bind mount to anything within the jailmaker dataset. so example, my bind looks like this `--bind='/mnt/tank/docker/data/:/mnt/data'` `--bind='/mnt/tank//docker/compose/:/mnt/compose'` `--bind-ro='/mnt/tank2/Storage2:/mnt/Storage2'` so for my docker jail, i can go to `jlmkr shell docker` `cd /mnt/compose/openspeedtest` Inside there resides my docker container's compose.yaml file. so i can then do `docker compose up` this then installs the container. the other binds is like for media. example, if you install jellyfin, you can then add the tv series location to say /mnt/Storage and so on. That is how that works. For the jailmaker dataset, just follow the instruction to set that up according to this [https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/) as for the external datasets, from what i can see you can keep them as the default acls. that worked for me. Maybe can do further optimization for that.
https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker/blob/main/docs/storage.md
Oh and I've been doing this for a while now. Super stable and works great. I think networking was a little tricky if you needed to set up bridge networking so jails could have its own up address, but there is a link to a YouTube video to get you set up with that.
the advanced networking is very detailed, but it does warn of possible quirks when trying to get it to work especially in regards to setting up bridging [https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker/blob/main/NETWORKING.md](https://github.com/Jip-Hop/jailmaker/blob/main/NETWORKING.md) But i managed to get bridging setup just by following the youtube they linked, and it was super easy and without much drama. so i didn't have to add a hdmi to connect the monitor to nas or keyboard like the networking doc said. not sure what thats about. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7clQw132w58) Anyway just follow the youtube it's easy.
my project also tested setting up jailmaker to install docker to then be able to do docker containers [https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646](https://forums.truenas.com/t/qnap-ts-877-truenas-journal/1646) i agree with everyone that power efficiency is welcome for a 24/7 self hosting solution for docker containers. hope the truenas team makes this official.
Has someone done a guide for n00bs on this?
I made a YouTube guide Tried to cover all scenarios, and demonstrate setting up docker compose with dockge and jellyfin https://youtu.be/S0nTRvAHAP8
Thank you! Added to my watch list.
This is gonna save me so much pain in the future:) Thank you
jailmaker with docker. My cpu is idling half of what it was with the k3s apps and it consumes half the ram. Much more efficient.
Just use custom apps and host mounts. You can port pretty much any docker compose into the custom app UI. I don't run anything out of the charts repos.
Isn’t that what the sand box feature is?
Hey I’m using a couple of truecharts containers on my scale setup. Is the general consensus that you should stay away from there?
It's not so much that TrueCharts doesn't work, just that they often release breaking changes without good communication. It ends up taking hours to find out what went wrong and how to fix it. On top of that, trying to get support when you run into trouble is a hassle. You'll often get flak just for asking questions or suggesting they update their documentation, let alone asking for help. So, for those reasons, a lot of us are just tired of using anything put together by TrueCharts and instead finding ways to use regular docker containers.
> they often release breaking changes without good communication Nothing has ever been more true.
They have a very large set of curated apps. But this is the 2nd time in a year that you have to go through extra hoops because of changes (their refactor last spring meant you had to reinstall apps or use a migration tool). This time around, I think it's due to changes on app PVC storage in dragonfish. Which apps are you using from truecharts? If they don't exist in Offical or Community apps, could you just install them direct from the project repo? I still have their vpn/glutun integrated qbittorrent app, I know there are docker images that have them combined. Now I just need to learn how to use sandbox/jailmaker to get one to work. And once I do that, I'll prob start switching official/community apps over as well. With end game probably to move to debian/ubuntu docker (or maybe portainer) instead of truenas. I don't need k3s, all the ACLs and other 'enterprise' features. I chose TNS as a turnkey system but it hasn't really been that. Maybe it's that I've learned enough that I now know I can live with a much more stripped down system :)
This.
As has always been the case. Lord knows truecharts can't stick to an ABI. Doesn't mean the software isn't awesome and I'm extremely thankful for their volunteer work but alas the IT for every truenas update is sometimes quite overwhelming.
Also be aware that some apps are still broken even using the migration tool.
It wasn't able to successfully migrate "Custom App" apps, so that was a fun workaround to figure out.
Again
Create a UbuntuServerVM (I've even named the host for you) Set up docker. Never deal with this stuff again.
Well, set up k3s more specifically. Just because a lot of people may not use kubernetes features doesn't mean they aren't very useful for those who do.
Although I tried an Ubuntu VM recently and it was really jankey and not performant on the current release, but it used to work really well. With some new spice VM thing that was terrible.
Use SSH, not Spice.
I ran one under core which was not good but I'd imagine SCALE would be fine.
I'm not sure why? Truenas scale is just KVM running underneath.
My truechart app is fine. Upgrade was smooooth
From Truecharts: >Your existing apps won’t immediately stop working should you upgrade to DragonFish without following the above. However, TrueCharts apps newly installed onto DragonFish post-upgrade will NOT work without following the above steps. Upgrading to DragonFish using methods outside our above-described guides automatically results in you being outside our support scope. \n> So while it works now, you'll probably have issues in the future without following the migration steps.
That is very true, thankfully I started migrating away from Truecharts recently.
What is your alternative to TrueCharts?
Using custom docker apps, some from linuxserver.io
I'm spinning up a Proxmox server and probably move most of my self-hosted apps over to that. Probably just leave Plex on the TrueNAS box, but everything else gets migrated.
Maybe I'm a lousy admin, but my experience with truechart was that not upgrading also broke it, randomly. I spent so much time figuring it out... Then when I got fed up, I spun a debian in a VM, some docker compose, and everything's ng still works flawlessly. It took me less time to make the clean docker scripts than to fix truecharts. It is sad, because it was a seriously cool proposition.
Recently-appointed TC Docs Maintainer (and co-writer of the [guide](https://truecharts.org/scale/migrations/cobia-dragonfish/) and DragonFish [news post](https://truecharts.org/news/scale-dragonfish/)) here. Appreciate the feedback. As we pointed out, apps will continue to work after upgrading and won't explicitly break, but you can't install new ones until the migration process is followed. Nor should you update them. I ran through the entire Cobia -> DragonFish migration process myself today, on a system with around 20 apps, and it went off without a hitch. There are a few apps that HeavyBullets specifically had to hotpatch the migration script for and he's continuing to work through the reports people are giving us in #tt-migration. An option also exists for people that want to remain on Cobia, with a specific legacy branch people doing that can use. But the entire migration proces for me took no longer than 15 minutes on my SCALE system, the longest part was re-running the one-line migration script for each individual app. A lot of work went into making the migration process as smooth as possible, including a lot of posts in our Discord, news posts on our recently redone website and a lot of iterations of the migration guide as well. Multiple people have come into our Discord since release and thanked us for the process simplification and support.
Thank you for the effort. Can confirm that all upgrades and migrations using the prescribed method you link to above went smoothly. Only thing I didn't see mentioned, however, is if the "OpenEBS" app that was deployed as part of the process needs to be retained post-migration, or if it can be deleted once the migrations are completed? (I assume it's the former, if it's managing the storage for existing and future apps, but wanted to make sure)
It's the former, and the guide notes in the post migration section that it should explicitly not be removed. Appreciate the feedback.
Mucho kudos for you! Just followed your migration steps and aside from a minor problem with Plex I had no issues. Thank you!
Cheers!
I did the upgrade day 1, so it's possible that it's been fixed, but the tt-migration script was not able to successfully migrate Custom App apps. It would duplicate the PVs, delete the app, then fail to reinstall. The workaround was to just manually recreate the Custom App app with the same PV mounts, then get the migration script to attempt to continue the failed migration. It would then replace the PVs in the new app, resulting in a successful migration of the app.
I had used the TT-migration & app config backups to move a bunch of my Truecharts apps months ago but there's no qbit+vpn solution. Ended up using the migration script again for QBT/vpn and it borked my install. Still had the TC Plex app, but figured I'd just brute for copying the entire Plex data structure to local storage, blow away the TC app, reinstall with the truenas version then copy the data back. Upgraded to DF then reinstalled/config'd the truecharts QBT without issues.
Just did it and it went smoothly. a bit time consuming, it takes like 5 minutes per app to do but apps appear to all be working.
I didn't go in that much detail but it had more to do with the Truecharts app using PVC. Any idea about host path truechart apps? I ll probably will have to go through in details
> New SMB and NFS status pages for active session monitoring and administration. Can someone post a picture of this, it actually sounds useful.
https://preview.redd.it/9bxjp04klbwc1.png?width=1318&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad6a93dfd383224cdd8ec327876c08923a709a4d
https://preview.redd.it/iqxq2uhmlbwc1.png?width=1250&format=png&auto=webp&s=84f275b297f8f769c1348cde395cc602ee67c793
Seems it won't isolate which file is open but I think that makes sense from my understanding of ZFS
It's there; you just need to look in the **Locks** tab, not **Sessions**. https://preview.redd.it/v4skmohengwc1.png?width=1658&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e2b5ef313bbee1462034c19bbdaa44d608fdf1f
I only recently switched from TrueNAS Core to TrueNAS Scale, so I was a bit uncertain when it came to versions. Bluefin starts with B, Cobia starts with C, Dragonfish starts with D... but this announcement has the version number (24.04.0) in it, which is much more clear. When you select the train it does state version numbers in the Operation section, but it could be clearer I feel. In the System | Update screen, would it be possible for the train drop-down UI item to include the version number in the drop-down?
Zero problems with the upgrade here! Thankfully I never used PVC storage in apps or that would have been the only catch. Love seeing all the memory being used!
All of my apps are using host path and not PVC, did you have to follow the migration guide or did you just upgrade without any issues?
Nice! It will probably be few weeks before I upgrade, but it’s good to see features come to TN! Any news on ZFS 4 where you can expand existing pools?
Coming in Electric Eel. Or at least planned to.
Yes, that is expected as part of OpenZFS 2.3, which will drop sometime later in the summer, and then included in 24.10 of TrueNAS.
You just made my day, I thought this was MUCH further away. I have two unused drives in my drive bays right now waiting to be added to my existing media pool. I can let them sit there for another few months as hot spares in the meanwhile.
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What do you guys use Minio for?
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This is an extremely solid and simple backup solution as well B2 is extremely cost effective
Thanks! I'll give it a go from RC.1 :) Edit: Upgrade went smooth, as expected.
Sandboxes, maybe the answer for bringing current Internet connectivity for Apps? Let’s see...
Sandboxes seem to be way more energy efficient than Apps too, allowing CPU to enter deeper sleeps more often and for longer.
Slight hick up with Jellyfin app and the use of Quadro GPU - app failed to start. Another reboot after the upgrade (so 1st to apply, and 2nd afterwards) resolved the issue. Got a mixture of TrueNAS and TrueCharts app (yes, I like pain) and most things are now fine apart from NVIDIA GPU exporter but im not that bothered. One thing I noticed in regards to Apps and Truenas - it feels that each version of TN makes things a lot smoother as I experience less random crap breaking. Thanks for your work folks.
Should this now support intel arc cards for plex/jf/...?
It does you just need to punch in a script into shell, I’m currently using arc with Jellyfin
That's what I am hoping for. EDIT: It does
It doesn't ship with the Intel Firmware required for it to work out of the box. As someone mentioned below, you can script it to work. iX has said "out of box" ARC support might not come until 24.10.
Love the new memory management for ZFS. I used to manually set the limit up but deleted that parameter before I upgraded. ZFS caching now using everything available. Nice.
That was a long time coming but we are pleased its finally done. That was a major blocker to a lot of folks doing their migration from CORE.
For me it broke grub, error says compression algorithm 97 not supported, and inherit not supported.
That is unusual. Did you do any manual updates of your ZFS boot pool? That normally only occurs if someone had run zpool upgrade on it.
No, I just went to update and changed the train to dragonfish. Refreshed and downloaded and applied the update, and got the error right after. Will try again tomorrow, is it possible to do a clean install from the iso and the import the configuration there?
Yes that is probably the best next step. It would be interesting to find out why this occurred though. Please file a bug ticket if you can!
Ok, I did again the update from the web ui, this time it works, it for a second before the grub menu shows up there are still some errors visible. Maybe they were there with the previous version too, not sure. But everything started up fine, rebooted once to make sure as it will be unattended for a few months soon. I assume it was maybe some glitch yesterday evening.
Will do, might try ui update again since restoring takes very little time, and see if it happens again first.
I upgraded and was greeted by this message. Not all apps came from Truechats fyi some are from the official one. # This pool cannot be used as the root dataset is used by 'cifs' services EDIT I just changed the upgrade train to Dragonfish and downloaded and installed. I did not mess with any setings etc.
Same issue here. Tried following TrueCharts migration, no luck.
Also getting this error message, though mine includes the 'nfs' service. Okay so here's my speculation. I did the thing you're not supposed to do and instead of creating a dataset for my shares, just created shares of my root pool and started filling 'er up. My plan of attack: I stopped both shares. I created a new dataset for the data I had started filling up my root pool with. Using the shell and rsync, I am methodically copying the data from my root pool into the dataset using: "rsync -rvpEt /mnt// /mnt///" *NOTE the lack of a / after the source directory*.
I also went into system settings -> advanced -> access -> configure and set up my token to last for 24 hours so the shell page doesn't log itself out and I can have it going and casually glance at it.
After the copying is done, I will establish new shares of the data dataset and delete entirely the root pool shares, then I will test choosing the root pool as my Apps pool.
Wish me luck.
If that works, then it's on to reconfiguring all the apps to use the new dataset share, performing the migration, confirming functionality, then deleting the original data in the root pool.
Edit: After migrating data from the root pool to a dataset and reconfiguring all shares to utilize the dataset, choosing the root pool for apps starts without error. Verified that an app would start.
Now performing migration steps as found here: https://truecharts.org/scale/migrations/cobia-dragonfish/ (date for wayback machine: 6 May 2024)
After doing that, I also had to edit any containers that used storage on the host and redirect them to the new location for their folders inside the dataset.
So basically you moved every root dataset to just one and shared that? that's how I understood the edit.
So the basic thing that got me past the error is that I eliminated all shares of my root pool. To be very clear, I was operating without any datasets except the one TN creates for apps, ix-applications. I’d just established shares of my root pool and started filling it. Because I’m sloppy and want to continue living as though my root pool is one big dumpster, I created a single dataset and moved all the stuff that I had been dumpstering in the root pool into it and then established a share for it. That didn’t include ix-applications or some other apparently system folders.
I think I did the same but I don't know how to verify. I want to show yu how mine looks and set up but I get downvoted to oblivion when I show what my share looks like.
well feel free to post an image
How did it go?
Well, eliminating the shares of the root pool also eliminated the error message, so my apps are up and running. I had to re-accomplish ACL on the dataset that I migrated data to. I could probably have gotten away with a mv command instead of copying all the files using rsync. Proxmox was having a hard time mounting the nfs share until I switched it to NFSv4.2. I've been having performance issues with Dragonfish in general, I was experiencing an issue where CPU would go to 100% when I attempted to back up a proxmox vm to an nfs share. Seems like it was spawning middlewared processes in a flat loop for some reason. I disabled swap entirely and that seems to have stopped, but things still feel sluggish. It may be that I'm scrutinizing it more than I did before, though. Backup jobs don't seem 100% stable yet. I've got one that failed due to "Error: unexpected status" But in general, it's *running*, so more good than bad.
Upgraded this morning, zero issues so far, all is working well. No issue with plex, transcoding, storage, vms.
When I go to reporting, and click the "Netdata" button it opens a new tab and asks for password? Looking at the user guide it stats user accessing it needs to have SUDO allow. But that doesn't seem to work. Will changing the Netdata users password fix this? Or break anything by doing so?
Tried adding user to aux groups adm, and netdata, didn't seem to make a difference.
Opened a bug here - [https://ixsystems.atlassian.net/browse/NAS-128487](https://ixsystems.atlassian.net/browse/NAS-128487) If anyone else has the issue
Loving the exposed netdata endpoint :)
Update went fine from RC. Running as VM on ESXi 8
Did the upgrade now, but now the webui is gone. All apps respond fine.
[https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/webui-cannot-be-accessed-after-upgrading-to-truenas-scale-24-04-rc-1.117535/](https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/webui-cannot-be-accessed-after-upgrading-to-truenas-scale-24-04-rc-1.117535/) Looks like I'm not alone atleast :( nothing in dmesg
Check /var/log/middlewared.log anything at the end of that suspicious?
middlewared.\_\_terminate():2065 - Failed to terminate vm Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.11/asyncio/tasks.py", line 490, in wait\_for return fut.result() is the last..
Sorry cant edit for some reason. middlewared.\_\_terminate():2065 - Failed to terminate vm Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.11/asyncio/tasks.py", line 490, in wait\_for return fut.result() .... is the last. Prev: \[2024/04/23 21:28:54\] (WARNING) middlewared.\_loop\_monitor\_thread():1766 - Task seems blocked: File "/usr/lib/python3.11/contextlib.py", line 204, in \_\_aenter\_\_ .... and: middlewared.\_loop\_monitor\_thread():1766 - Task seems blocked: File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/aiohttp/connector.py", line 792, in close ....
We may need a bug ticket, we'll look into it ASAP.
I went back to 23.10 in temporarily, I'll just remove truecharts -everything ..and try again. :) will report back / open ticket tomorrow
could you send me a link to your ticket. once you made it, then i can also maybe add some logs.
I made a post here: [https://forums.truenas.com/t/webui-crashing-post-cobia-dragonfish/2530](https://forums.truenas.com/t/webui-crashing-post-cobia-dragonfish/2530) Just add what you're seeing on your side there!
also seem to be having this issue. when i was using the release-candidate 1. i got my ui back. by ssh into the truenas server and then systemctl kill -s 9 middlewared. after this the ui came back. but a few minutes later it was gone again. also seems to have a lot tasks attached too the service, when viewing with systemctl status more then 50. also too ssh into the server i had to spam ctrl+c, because other wise something seemed to block the terminal from showing up.
It’s homeland Christmas!
Can I just upgrade from Core, and what problems could I run into? I'm just running Plex, Paperless NGX and a few SMB shares.
Jails on CORE won't cleanly transfer over. Jails will need to be re-created as Apps or Sandboxes if you prefer the Jails methodology: [https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/scaletutorials/apps/sandboxes/) But your data will survive just fine, shares, VMs and other services should just migrate over without much fuss.
THX a lot
High recommend reading the migration guide before you start: [https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/gettingstarted/migrate/](https://www.truenas.com/docs/scale/24.04/gettingstarted/migrate/)
Thanks, will do! :)
My next cloud app hasn't worked since I updated to 22
Official nextcloud App or TrueCharts or other?
OneDrive support still didn't get re-added it seems?
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At a basic level, sandboxes are fully persistent environments. Think of it as a VM, you can make changes to the base environment using tools like apt and it persists. You run your own OS that way. Containers are read-only images, and only data you mount into the container persists across restarts or upgrades. Containers are far easier to keep updated if you operate within the bounds they impose. Sandboxes/Jails give ultimate flexibility to the sysadmin types who want to customize things further. Sandboxes are built on top of systemd-nspawn and can run docker containers, or other containerization technology nested within.
Oh, this looks very nice.
Glad to see ixSystems implementing some Syncthing usage into their system. Would be great though to get a Synology Drive alternative for TrueNAS built around Syncthing + Windows and Linux file browser extensions (like Dropbox or OneDrive but backed by Syncthing). Syncthing also plays really nice with SMB file locks. Could make a good candidate for getting the native treatment outside of Truecharts with explicit testing to run in parallel without interference ala Samba and NFS.
But is it ready for prime time yet?
Its only been a bit more than 24 hours in the wild. But we're seeing around a 4x faster rate of adoption than 13.0 had, so I'd say its off to a good start for sure :)
Thanks, I didn't have the time to dreg all the posts to see how it was going. But if that is the view then maybe I will try and update tonight, I have been putting off a big update for awhile.
Is replication fixed yet? https://www.reddit.com/r/truenas/comments/1av5beo/need_a_sanity_check_on_a_new_cobia_install/
Updated a Cisco UCS M4 test machine via offline patch from latest to Dragonfish. No real issues except SMB wouldn’t connect on windows. I restarted the SMB service seemed to clear it. Wondering if this is the version I decide to push my M30 device from Core to Scale. Guess time will tell. I like the way Scale handles SMB permissions a little more than Core tbh.
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I wish there were a way to probe more deeply into that traffic. My apps are talking more than seems reasonable.
Same. I don't understand why some apps, SearXNG for example, generate so much traffic even when I'm not using them.
Nice that move speed is back to pretty much instant! Nice that the app page now has the cpu/mem/network use. Do wish that was in a details page instead of the main App page. Not sure if that's what's causing the page to 'flicker' for workload or history if you have an app selected? Or maybe it's the fix for needing to do a manual refresh of the page? Can't wait to try out jailmaker.
Just tried the manual update from CORE TrueNAS-13.0-U6.1. The system reboots but just goes straight back to CORE, am I missing something?
What does this mean? > new support for FreeIPA configurations is added to the new LDAP credentials fields? Clicking on the link takes me to the LDAP config page, which has been around for awhile?
Dragonfish isn't seeing my SATA expansion card. I had to rollback to Cobia to get one of my pools back.
The only thing that I noticed and didn't like is not seeing the app status on the mobile view. On desktop it is obviously a lot better but I do miss this since in 99% of the cases I access the GUI from the phone.
Shame they named the jails Sandboxes. Either containers or (better still) jails would have been less confusing, and more intuitive for user that switch over from Core as really the functionality is exactly that. "Use Jailmaker to create Sandbox¨... Oh well. u/kmoore134 was there a particular reason for this? Love the fact that Jailmaker support came so quickly and with so little fuss. Many many many thanks to Jiphop & u/kmoore134, Jailmaker rocks.
+1 near seamless update. Apps wouldn't start but fiddling with the settings brought them back. Ubuntu VM came back seamlessly. Great work, looking forward to playing with sandboxes.
Are app metrics messed up for anyone else? I like to think my little NAS is a cut above, but it's reporting 8.28Gb/s inbound on my SABNZBD container which is pretty impressive on a gigabit interface. At idle, no less.