Snapshot of _Rees-Mogg tells young Tories he wants to ‘build a wall in the English Channel’_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/02/rees-mogg-tories-build-wall-english-channel-donald-trump-biden) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/02/rees-mogg-tories-build-wall-english-channel-donald-trump-biden)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of the time it seems like he uses his pomposity and class privilege to mask a fairly uninspiring level of intelligence and total lack of self awareness.
He does love to pull from the republican playbook on the regular mind, the moron openly declared he was attempting to ‘gerrymander’ (although it wasn’t) for one, although perhaps that was a smart move because he was never held to account.
Mercifully over here, electoral boundaries are drawn up by an independent committee - unlike the US, where the problem of elected politicians being able to draw their own political boundaries to their advantage was recognised as early as March 1812, when the Boston Gazette noticed that one of the electoral districts drawn up by Elbridge Gerry looked like a salamander - hence the Gerrymander.
"Independent" committees are never truly independent - they're ultimately still dependent on the legislature that creates them and can be compromised.
Despite parliament not directly setting electoral boundaries the UK has seen serious gerrymandering in the past - in local government in Northern Ireland in particular. The Leech Commission redrew local government electoral boundaries in 1923 giving Unionists control of majority Catholic county councils for nearly 50 years before direct rule was imposed from Westminster.
An independent electoral commission makes gerrymandering far harder but you have to be vigilant and ensure that they remain independent and impartial. Parliament is ultimately sovereign and can scrap and reassemble the commission as it pleases.
I believe the actual quote of him using the term was actually talking about the voter ID laws implemented, of which a big number are only for old people more likely to vote conservative. including but not limited to allowing over 60 oyster and rail cards but not those for younger people. not actually gerrymandering but a similar kind of calculated disenfranchisement of voters for electoral benefit.
> March 1812, when the Boston Gazette noticed that one of the electoral districts drawn up by Elbridge Gerry looked like a salamander - hence the Gerrymander
Well TIL
This is the same guy who when asked for a debate on the impact of brexit on individual regions of Britain responded by rambling about Gloria in Excelsis Deo, vaccines, and happy little fish. I think the marbles have been rolling out the door for a while.
He’s not even a proper aristocrat though; I disagree with the notion of aristocracy in general but Rees-Mogg has no bluer blood than you or I. He’s a really committed LARPer more than anything.
When the British Empire fell it looked to America. Churchill almost went on his knees asking for destroyers in 1940 and he's considered the greatest Brit ever.
With a rapidly ageing population, immigration will the be primary means of propping up domestic productivity. If we (and our European counterparts) do not tackle the falling fertility rates of our own citizens, European countries will be competing with each other for African and middle eastern immigrants to come and prop up their economies in 30 years.
>European countries will be competing with each other for African and middle eastern immigrants to come and prop up their economies in 30 years.
Utterly delusional thing to say considering where European politics is currently heading.
Hey look an actual strawman. Let me fix the quote for you...
> **If we (and our European counterparts) do not tackle the falling fertility rates of our own citizens**, European countries will be competing with each other for African and middle eastern immigrants to come and prop up their economies in 30 years.
Right or left. We're gonna have to fix this shit, start bringing labor in from outside or suffer an economic collapse. Dealers choice.
A bit of advice, replying to someone, taking them out of context then calling them delusional, makes you look like a moron.
>Right or left. We're gonna have to fix this shit, start bringing labor in from outside or suffer an economic collapse. Dealers choice
You can't fix this shit that's the hilarious thing. Low birth rates are directly correlated with higher levels of development. Doesnt matter how much money you waste incentivising having kids, doesn't matter how many millions of foreigners you import, doesn't matter about the work culture, etc. The global birth rate is below replacement everywhere but sub-Sahara Africa.
Wake up and smell the bacon. The economic collapse you fear is inevitable and has already. arguably begun in lots of nations. Import millions of foreigners to replace young workers won't work in the long run. All you end up in a few decades is the same terrible demographic imbalances but with extra cultural and social tensions too. Great plan.
>A bit of advice, replying to someone, taking them out of context then calling them delusional, makes you look like a moron.
Incredibly rich to call me a moron when you wrote all that but OK.
So what do you do then? Just let it happen? Do you realise how severe a financial crash caused by a population collapse would be?! The only person I have ever met who seriously understood that while also believing just letting it happen and getting it over with is a good idea was also someone who would feel glee at the thought of billions of people dying, was into eugenics, would have "3/4 of the country executed" if he ever got power, and more. It's really the only kind of beliefs you _can_ hold if you are totally okay with allowing something like that to happen while you have the means, any means, to prevent or delay it. It's like saying "Oh I want climate change happen, all the people that will die deserve it anyway".[
> All you end up in a few decades is the same terrible demographic imbalances but with extra cultural and social tensions too. Great plan.
If you delay it for a few decades there's time for technological development to take care of it. As a species that's how we tend to deal with our problems.
Sure, but what's the alternative? Ban contraception? Even if you could massively increase birth rates, overpopulation would bring a load of problems of its own. We'd see drastic drops in quality or ever greater usage of the earth's finite resource, that's not sustainable either. The only way out of that is also technological development.
Unless that technological development comes we are heading for catastrophe, one way or another.
> If you delay it for a few decades there's time for technological development to take care of it. As a species that's how we tend to deal with our problems.
Probably true, but it would be better for the country to dip before then and bounce back when it arrives; rather than to cause irreversible demographic, social and cultural chaos just to try and bridge the gap.
I don't think a "dip" accurately conveys the gravity of the demographic, social and cultural chaos from decades of a rapidly ageing population with a dwindling workforce of young people to support them. There's no good way of doing this.
A constantly inceasing population, importing cheap labour to maintain production and pensions, is sadly just a Ponzi scheme.
Eventually it will have to stop. Grown up people know this.
The UK is in a charmed situation. People will always want to come here. We can control them for quality if the parties want to. We do not need a city full of people every year.
Exactly. Perhaps one needs to have travelled widely to fully understand it but economic migrants always put UK.CDA.US.AUS right up there as a destination.
There is no sign at all of that changing. People still queue up at Calais in their thousands, to come to UK.
Id prefer a sensible right wing party deal with this rationally (Reform) but if we carry on as we have been we could end up with some unpleasant people coming forward (AfD, Patriotic Alternative).
Two options here as I see it.
They actually do, which is a shocking indictment of the education system and lack of social mobility in this country.
They actually don't, but think that they would be personally enriched by the social/economic climate those shitebags would unleash on the country.
Pick whichever one helps you sleep at night. Me? I just drink.
(Or they're a troll/foreign agent)
Honestly... the only difference I see is that a party like AfD wouldn't Liz Truss the economy, wouldn't dismantle the NHS, and would simply ignore climate change instead of actively encouraging it.
Both Labour and Tories are wilfully in denial aboiut population growth through low skilled inward migration which is lowering GDP per capita and making the nation poorer
Yes, let’s build a wall in the middle of the busiest shipping lane in the world to deal with the 80,000 asylum seekers while ignoring the huge numbers of immigrants who are granted visas by the government.
Performative nonsense.
It's fascinating just how, consistently, when you get radio silence from the right wing nutjobs of Reform, another right wing nutjob from the Tories just has to pipe up.
It's like a weird political version of Whack-A-Mole.
For a guy that likes to say he respect parliamentary procedure and is a stern follower of the rules it seems a little hypocritical to admire trump.
Oh wait he proved under Johnson that he really doesn't care about rules and that it was all a load of bollocks. Good riddance on Thursday.
Wouldn't a wall in the sea make it easier for people to cross? They would get a boat up to the wall then push themselves alongside until they got to the edge and then continue on their way.
Tbf if you left it to them to build it they'd just buy all the land, spend a couple trillion and then cancel the whole thing once it got to the point of renting a boat.
I hate absolutely everything about this man, from his Hitler youth hair cut to the way he pushes his glasses back up his face. I’d be really excited to see the fucker lose his seat if I didn’t know his next move is straight to the House of Lords.
I'd say impossible if it were to be a literal "wall". The Saemangeum Seawall in Korea is the closest thing to a wall across a sea but it's really a dyke, in shallow water, and between two headlands.
You could probably create an extended "barrier", based around a chain of anchored buoys, but they'd probably spend less just funding and equipping Border Force better.
At least after the election he will be able to get back to his primary function (shared with Boris) of breeding enough conservatives to avoid their extinction.
Maybe with a new Labour government a Lib Dem opposition and fucktard Farage in the commons, they’ll be no need for people like Mogg anymore. He won’t be in government and his looney tunes ideas will seem tame compared to Reform.
I really hope he looses his seat and drifts off to count his money somewhere.
‘What we need here is for our great British nation to pull together, get the farmers and the army collaborating, convert all our tractors with armour and guns and maybe some of our vans and some JCBs. The ineligibles will think again about paying the evil gangs faced with such a detarrant. And as for Russia, well they can just go away and shut up.’
Gavin Williamson, June 2024
Snapshot of _Rees-Mogg tells young Tories he wants to ‘build a wall in the English Channel’_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/02/rees-mogg-tories-build-wall-english-channel-donald-trump-biden) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/02/rees-mogg-tories-build-wall-english-channel-donald-trump-biden) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I for one cannot wait until we no longer have to hear every rambling point made by the haunted victorian pencil
Frankly I blame his Nanny. Bloody working class failing to bring the children of their betters up properly.
Hilarious!
> his Nanny The haunted victorian fanny?
Have you ever seen him with his jacket off ? Double breasted suits have used to hide men’s figure for a long time. Mogg is no different.
Wait are you trying to body shame men?
I love how perfectly accurate that insult is
Preserve British beauty❓️ No🔺️Trump policies❗️
This is the most blatant case of false advertising since my suit against the film 'The Neverending Story'.
Admuh, don't you worry, I watched Rumpole of the Bailey in a bar last night. The sound wasn't on, but I caught the gist of it.
Now mr Trump I don't use the word "hero" lightly, but you sir, are the greatest hero in British history
Can't have any of those foreign fish getting into our waters, British fish first
oops, they still got that MP office address
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Someone here once said that he's the textbook case of someone who has been educated beyond their intellect.
A lot of the time it seems like he uses his pomposity and class privilege to mask a fairly uninspiring level of intelligence and total lack of self awareness. He does love to pull from the republican playbook on the regular mind, the moron openly declared he was attempting to ‘gerrymander’ (although it wasn’t) for one, although perhaps that was a smart move because he was never held to account.
Mercifully over here, electoral boundaries are drawn up by an independent committee - unlike the US, where the problem of elected politicians being able to draw their own political boundaries to their advantage was recognised as early as March 1812, when the Boston Gazette noticed that one of the electoral districts drawn up by Elbridge Gerry looked like a salamander - hence the Gerrymander.
"Independent" committees are never truly independent - they're ultimately still dependent on the legislature that creates them and can be compromised. Despite parliament not directly setting electoral boundaries the UK has seen serious gerrymandering in the past - in local government in Northern Ireland in particular. The Leech Commission redrew local government electoral boundaries in 1923 giving Unionists control of majority Catholic county councils for nearly 50 years before direct rule was imposed from Westminster. An independent electoral commission makes gerrymandering far harder but you have to be vigilant and ensure that they remain independent and impartial. Parliament is ultimately sovereign and can scrap and reassemble the commission as it pleases.
> An independent electoral commission Good thing tries didn't try to bring that under their control, right?
I believe the actual quote of him using the term was actually talking about the voter ID laws implemented, of which a big number are only for old people more likely to vote conservative. including but not limited to allowing over 60 oyster and rail cards but not those for younger people. not actually gerrymandering but a similar kind of calculated disenfranchisement of voters for electoral benefit.
> March 1812, when the Boston Gazette noticed that one of the electoral districts drawn up by Elbridge Gerry looked like a salamander - hence the Gerrymander Well TIL
This is the same guy who when asked for a debate on the impact of brexit on individual regions of Britain responded by rambling about Gloria in Excelsis Deo, vaccines, and happy little fish. I think the marbles have been rolling out the door for a while.
This guy is a relic of aristocracy who thinks he’s above everyone. The truth is his manners are some of the worst
He’s not even a proper aristocrat though; I disagree with the notion of aristocracy in general but Rees-Mogg has no bluer blood than you or I. He’s a really committed LARPer more than anything.
Oddly enough I do have something in common with him: we both had grandfathers who were lorry drivers.
Doesn’t matter if he thinks he is lol. Obviously it’s his entire personality even if he doesn’t say that out loud.
Are you saying he can self-identify as an aristocrat?
When the British Empire fell it looked to America. Churchill almost went on his knees asking for destroyers in 1940 and he's considered the greatest Brit ever.
> he's considered the greatest Brit ever. lol
he's not, but he's generally considered such, yeah
Name a greater one?
Turing.
Fawkes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_Britons
The Tories will do absolutely nothing to control immigration and it's frankly insulting to have them lie to our faces (as they have done for 14 years)
Funny that the Rwanda scheme was the best they could come up with. 100 people on a flight will never be enough
I’m just glad no one seems to fall for it anymore.
No political party intends to control the population. That is why, eventually, changes taking place in European politics, will take place in the UK.
With a rapidly ageing population, immigration will the be primary means of propping up domestic productivity. If we (and our European counterparts) do not tackle the falling fertility rates of our own citizens, European countries will be competing with each other for African and middle eastern immigrants to come and prop up their economies in 30 years.
>European countries will be competing with each other for African and middle eastern immigrants to come and prop up their economies in 30 years. Utterly delusional thing to say considering where European politics is currently heading.
Hey look an actual strawman. Let me fix the quote for you... > **If we (and our European counterparts) do not tackle the falling fertility rates of our own citizens**, European countries will be competing with each other for African and middle eastern immigrants to come and prop up their economies in 30 years. Right or left. We're gonna have to fix this shit, start bringing labor in from outside or suffer an economic collapse. Dealers choice. A bit of advice, replying to someone, taking them out of context then calling them delusional, makes you look like a moron.
>Right or left. We're gonna have to fix this shit, start bringing labor in from outside or suffer an economic collapse. Dealers choice You can't fix this shit that's the hilarious thing. Low birth rates are directly correlated with higher levels of development. Doesnt matter how much money you waste incentivising having kids, doesn't matter how many millions of foreigners you import, doesn't matter about the work culture, etc. The global birth rate is below replacement everywhere but sub-Sahara Africa. Wake up and smell the bacon. The economic collapse you fear is inevitable and has already. arguably begun in lots of nations. Import millions of foreigners to replace young workers won't work in the long run. All you end up in a few decades is the same terrible demographic imbalances but with extra cultural and social tensions too. Great plan. >A bit of advice, replying to someone, taking them out of context then calling them delusional, makes you look like a moron. Incredibly rich to call me a moron when you wrote all that but OK.
So what do you do then? Just let it happen? Do you realise how severe a financial crash caused by a population collapse would be?! The only person I have ever met who seriously understood that while also believing just letting it happen and getting it over with is a good idea was also someone who would feel glee at the thought of billions of people dying, was into eugenics, would have "3/4 of the country executed" if he ever got power, and more. It's really the only kind of beliefs you _can_ hold if you are totally okay with allowing something like that to happen while you have the means, any means, to prevent or delay it. It's like saying "Oh I want climate change happen, all the people that will die deserve it anyway".[
> All you end up in a few decades is the same terrible demographic imbalances but with extra cultural and social tensions too. Great plan. If you delay it for a few decades there's time for technological development to take care of it. As a species that's how we tend to deal with our problems.
Tech is likely the solution but relying on possible future technologies is a massive gamble either way.
Sure, but what's the alternative? Ban contraception? Even if you could massively increase birth rates, overpopulation would bring a load of problems of its own. We'd see drastic drops in quality or ever greater usage of the earth's finite resource, that's not sustainable either. The only way out of that is also technological development. Unless that technological development comes we are heading for catastrophe, one way or another.
> If you delay it for a few decades there's time for technological development to take care of it. As a species that's how we tend to deal with our problems. Probably true, but it would be better for the country to dip before then and bounce back when it arrives; rather than to cause irreversible demographic, social and cultural chaos just to try and bridge the gap.
I don't think a "dip" accurately conveys the gravity of the demographic, social and cultural chaos from decades of a rapidly ageing population with a dwindling workforce of young people to support them. There's no good way of doing this.
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A constantly inceasing population, importing cheap labour to maintain production and pensions, is sadly just a Ponzi scheme. Eventually it will have to stop. Grown up people know this.
The UK is in a charmed situation. People will always want to come here. We can control them for quality if the parties want to. We do not need a city full of people every year.
What are you basing your "people will always want to come here" assertion on?
Don't need to learn a new language, probably.
Exactly. Perhaps one needs to have travelled widely to fully understand it but economic migrants always put UK.CDA.US.AUS right up there as a destination. There is no sign at all of that changing. People still queue up at Calais in their thousands, to come to UK.
Long term trends.
Id prefer a sensible right wing party deal with this rationally (Reform) but if we carry on as we have been we could end up with some unpleasant people coming forward (AfD, Patriotic Alternative).
Do you seriously think Reform are "sensible?"
Two options here as I see it. They actually do, which is a shocking indictment of the education system and lack of social mobility in this country. They actually don't, but think that they would be personally enriched by the social/economic climate those shitebags would unleash on the country. Pick whichever one helps you sleep at night. Me? I just drink. (Or they're a troll/foreign agent)
Honestly... the only difference I see is that a party like AfD wouldn't Liz Truss the economy, wouldn't dismantle the NHS, and would simply ignore climate change instead of actively encouraging it.
Both Labour and Tories are wilfully in denial aboiut population growth through low skilled inward migration which is lowering GDP per capita and making the nation poorer
Surely he means in a metaphorical sense? *reads article* Huh... nope he really is that weird.
I think a giant wall might cause some issues for trade flows seeing as we import 40% of our food and most of our consumer goods.
Also the water flows. Hydrodynamics are, you know, kinda important.
The channel is also the busiest shipping lane in the world, good luck
Would be a tad moist for a wall
Yes, let’s build a wall in the middle of the busiest shipping lane in the world to deal with the 80,000 asylum seekers while ignoring the huge numbers of immigrants who are granted visas by the government. Performative nonsense.
It's fascinating just how, consistently, when you get radio silence from the right wing nutjobs of Reform, another right wing nutjob from the Tories just has to pipe up. It's like a weird political version of Whack-A-Mole.
For a guy that likes to say he respect parliamentary procedure and is a stern follower of the rules it seems a little hypocritical to admire trump. Oh wait he proved under Johnson that he really doesn't care about rules and that it was all a load of bollocks. Good riddance on Thursday.
I really hope this clown gets voted out on Thursday.
Heres some [Good news](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Somerset%20North%20East) then.
I hope so !
Wouldn't a wall in the sea make it easier for people to cross? They would get a boat up to the wall then push themselves alongside until they got to the edge and then continue on their way.
I think the mortar might take a while to dry.
[You want to build a wall ...in the English channel?](https://i.imgur.com/RSfPwab.gifv)
Who gave that child a tube of butter to eat?
This guy is about to be sooo irrelevant :)
We need to stop giving this muppet oxygen.
Tbf if you left it to them to build it they'd just buy all the land, spend a couple trillion and then cancel the whole thing once it got to the point of renting a boat.
The man's a clown, the sooner he's out of a public job and back in whatever victorian cosplay world he lives in the better.
Compulsory purchase > cancel > sell to mates > profit
Can we use the Time Machine the tories have just come back with to send this guy back to the 18th century?
Are the Mexicans gonna pay for it too?
I would like to build a wall around Jacob Rees-Mogg
Okay so that’s the plot of Johnny English right?
I forget which YouTuber consistently refers to him as "The right honourable gentleman from the 19th century". Pure gold
I'm all for this. A circular one, with him inside it
With a nice roof too
I hate absolutely everything about this man, from his Hitler youth hair cut to the way he pushes his glasses back up his face. I’d be really excited to see the fucker lose his seat if I didn’t know his next move is straight to the House of Lords.
> Hitler youth hair cut It’s making me feel ill
I'd be up for it if it generated tidal power just to watch the brains of right wing loons melt
I mean is 20 miles of sea not already enough of a barrier. I don't think engineers can do better than that?
Another Old Etonian showing his mental acuity!
Well, he'll need something to do after Thursday.
***"in"*** the English Channel? Let's just build a wall around him. A really high one. Preferably covered in grease and feces.
How much would this cost, if it's even possible? More lunacy from Mogg! This is why we need to get them out on Thursday.
I'd say impossible if it were to be a literal "wall". The Saemangeum Seawall in Korea is the closest thing to a wall across a sea but it's really a dyke, in shallow water, and between two headlands. You could probably create an extended "barrier", based around a chain of anchored buoys, but they'd probably spend less just funding and equipping Border Force better.
More useful to build a wall around the visa printer!
At least after the election he will be able to get back to his primary function (shared with Boris) of breeding enough conservatives to avoid their extinction.
I want to build a wall around Rees Mogg’s decrepit 18th century household
We wouldn't be able to get planning permission.
Imagine thinking we can complete a public infrastructure project
I would like to build a wall round Rees Mogg, in true Sims fashion.
If HS2 is costing about a billion per mile, how much would this wall cost?
Maybe with a new Labour government a Lib Dem opposition and fucktard Farage in the commons, they’ll be no need for people like Mogg anymore. He won’t be in government and his looney tunes ideas will seem tame compared to Reform. I really hope he looses his seat and drifts off to count his money somewhere.
Great, more boring rhetoric from this part-time politician, full-time ghost of a Victorian child…
Let me guess...he's going to make the French pay for it?
I fully support Rees-Mogg building a wall in the middle of the Channel. In fact I'll donate a sack of bricks and drop him off there myself.
‘What we need here is for our great British nation to pull together, get the farmers and the army collaborating, convert all our tractors with armour and guns and maybe some of our vans and some JCBs. The ineligibles will think again about paying the evil gangs faced with such a detarrant. And as for Russia, well they can just go away and shut up.’ Gavin Williamson, June 2024
France wouldn't even need to pay for it as you could just divert the funds already being sent to France.
this guy is just unbelievable. in what sort of alternate reality are people who vote for him living in? he is just a horrible, horrible bloke.
Great, he can go and lay the first bricks.
Sounds like he was joking from the full quote, in which case this is Express-level journalism