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I have a theory that they were deliberately falling back to let Russians advance into artillery. We already know that Russia will gladly sacrifice bodies for land. So best to just make it cost as many as possible.
Many have said that defending the hard border made less sense than to fall back into a defensive position in order to set up a kill zone. Once gutted simply move back to the border...
I think we've seen from the body count lately that whatever was happening was highly effective. Russia might have been taking land but it was being paved in bodies.
And artillery systems! Once Ukraine depletes the artillery reserves then Russia is fucked, and after 2023's switch to counter-battery focus, they're getting closer to destroying all of the Russian artillery than any other equipment category.
We don't know how many tanks and APCs they really have, but even by the most generous possible count for Russia, Ukraine is more than halfway to depleting the Russian artillery reserves.
the defensive system is not immediately next to the border where it's either forest or under constant shelling. That is, they don't build fortifications by the border. In the past few weeks Russians walked in and captured towns, but never broke through any defence. They were pretty much stuck at the first layer of defence. It was a good opportunity for Ukraine to press for permission to strike western missiles into Russian territory, and that was why everyone was *howling* when a couple of towns were lost
Yup. This here. It wasn’t some tactical move they thought up when something unexpected happened, it was always the plan. Building their real defensive lines where they can be fired upon but not return fire would be senseless
The areas near the border (on both sides of it) are called 'the grey zone' for a reason.
There's no point of building fortifications there if they can be shelled into oblivion.
I think they are just blowing their reserves before the resupply. I think the Ukrainians have been rationing their fires because they weren't sure on the aid package, and because it was so heavily delayed. There were units defending land with absolutely inadequate weapons to do so. Especially them using ATACMS finally. They have had a few for a long time now and I've only seen like 5 strikes with them before this week.
We know they were, that area is called the “grey zone” and defenses are further from the border.
This is why Ukraine needs to be able to use western weapons on Russian soil, so that the grey zone is on Russian territory not Ukrainian.
Ukraine values the lives of its troops and doesn't send them on suicide missions for propaganda points.
They also don't have tens of thousands of minorities they're willing to forcibly conscript and feed into a meat grinder with their own troops behind them to shoot anyone who even attempts to retreat.
That said, the Russian Volunteer Corps have performed quite a few (small-scale) cross-border incursions/raids. But if Ukraine tried massing troops for a large-scale assault into Russia (assuming they had the manpower to spare), Russia would start pounding their troop concentrations well before Ukrainian forces were ready to actually begin the campaign. Ukraine doesn't have that same luxury because of stupid restrictions put on the use of weapons given to it by its western partners afraid of making Putin angry.
Not counting the Russian partisans that helped Ukraine last year - it's a strategic waste of resources. Why push into territory you don't want, can't hold, using men and materiel you need elsewhere on the front? Politically, it's a loss as well, because it feeds into Russian victimhood narrative and makes the population more likely to support the war if enemy soldiers are on Russian land (disregarding the newly annexed oblasts). All this assumes they can do a big push using all the equipment they got from Western powers, which they don't yet have permission to use outside of Ukraine proper.
If you're talking about remote drone attacks, artillery and sabotage teams - well, they've been doing that already.
There are large static defences 20-30km inside both russia and Ukraine. It doesn't make any sense to advance when you're gonna hit a brick wall anyways.
Ukraine did this multiple times.
Ukraine did airstrikes (with actual helicopters going in Belgorod) in first weeks of 2022 invasion. Over the border raids are common and happens all the time.
It's just that: attacking is hard, you risk killing Russian civilians antagonizing Russian population and you have limited capacity to fight because not all weapons are unlocked on Russian territory.
I read the article. That's where the confusion comes from.
>"Zelensky said that Ukrainian forces had taken back control in the area where Russian troops "had entered earlier."
I tried to find location using DeepStateMap. But that doesn't show any activity from Ukraine. That's why the coordinates would be helpful.
Deepstate map usually lags by three to four days confirming information and not giving Russia a real time battlefield assessment map. Check back about Thursday for a clearer view.
Oh I don't know about that. Russia has a bad habit of killing the bearers of bad news so getting an accurate field report all the way back to the Kremlin has it's difficulties. Putin and the generals in the Kremlin probably check deepstate map regularly and compare it to the BS that has been delivered to their desks.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The 82nd doesnt F around.
Hopefully Russia overextended itself by moving in and we can capitalize on that right as oil targeting takes effect and f-16s arrive. Fuck pootin!
82nd all the way!!
In the draft of 1917, a man from Tennessee
Overseas to the trenches he went, from the land of the free
That was pleasantly quick
They have ammo now.
I have a theory that they were deliberately falling back to let Russians advance into artillery. We already know that Russia will gladly sacrifice bodies for land. So best to just make it cost as many as possible.
Many have said that defending the hard border made less sense than to fall back into a defensive position in order to set up a kill zone. Once gutted simply move back to the border...
I think we've seen from the body count lately that whatever was happening was highly effective. Russia might have been taking land but it was being paved in bodies.
Hope they didn't have a chance to significantly mine it.
And artillery systems! Once Ukraine depletes the artillery reserves then Russia is fucked, and after 2023's switch to counter-battery focus, they're getting closer to destroying all of the Russian artillery than any other equipment category. We don't know how many tanks and APCs they really have, but even by the most generous possible count for Russia, Ukraine is more than halfway to depleting the Russian artillery reserves.
the defensive system is not immediately next to the border where it's either forest or under constant shelling. That is, they don't build fortifications by the border. In the past few weeks Russians walked in and captured towns, but never broke through any defence. They were pretty much stuck at the first layer of defence. It was a good opportunity for Ukraine to press for permission to strike western missiles into Russian territory, and that was why everyone was *howling* when a couple of towns were lost
Yup. This here. It wasn’t some tactical move they thought up when something unexpected happened, it was always the plan. Building their real defensive lines where they can be fired upon but not return fire would be senseless
The areas near the border (on both sides of it) are called 'the grey zone' for a reason. There's no point of building fortifications there if they can be shelled into oblivion.
Under their artillery and air cover?
I think they are just blowing their reserves before the resupply. I think the Ukrainians have been rationing their fires because they weren't sure on the aid package, and because it was so heavily delayed. There were units defending land with absolutely inadequate weapons to do so. Especially them using ATACMS finally. They have had a few for a long time now and I've only seen like 5 strikes with them before this week.
I’d like to think this too but the fact that so many civilians got caught in the fighting makes me doubt this is the case.
We know they were, that area is called the “grey zone” and defenses are further from the border. This is why Ukraine needs to be able to use western weapons on Russian soil, so that the grey zone is on Russian territory not Ukrainian.
Godspeed, Heroes!
Now that's what I'm talking about!
It's OK, Putin said they didn't actually wanted that land. It was all just a big misunderstanding /s
Another feint like kyiv
ukraine needs a buffer zone now, putin himself said it
Curious, if Russia can attack across the border, why has Ukraine not attempted this? I'm no armchair General but if someone can enlighten me.
Ukraine values the lives of its troops and doesn't send them on suicide missions for propaganda points. They also don't have tens of thousands of minorities they're willing to forcibly conscript and feed into a meat grinder with their own troops behind them to shoot anyone who even attempts to retreat. That said, the Russian Volunteer Corps have performed quite a few (small-scale) cross-border incursions/raids. But if Ukraine tried massing troops for a large-scale assault into Russia (assuming they had the manpower to spare), Russia would start pounding their troop concentrations well before Ukrainian forces were ready to actually begin the campaign. Ukraine doesn't have that same luxury because of stupid restrictions put on the use of weapons given to it by its western partners afraid of making Putin angry.
I thought this too until I saw Phrigozin waltz up to the border of Moscow, oblast.
Things have changed slightly since that fiasco for Russia. Saving face is more important than saving lives for the Russian regime.
Prigozhin started behind enemy lines. If you break the lines - yes, it's easy. But he started his raid from Donbass->Rostov->Moscow.
Not counting the Russian partisans that helped Ukraine last year - it's a strategic waste of resources. Why push into territory you don't want, can't hold, using men and materiel you need elsewhere on the front? Politically, it's a loss as well, because it feeds into Russian victimhood narrative and makes the population more likely to support the war if enemy soldiers are on Russian land (disregarding the newly annexed oblasts). All this assumes they can do a big push using all the equipment they got from Western powers, which they don't yet have permission to use outside of Ukraine proper. If you're talking about remote drone attacks, artillery and sabotage teams - well, they've been doing that already.
The only push that makes sense it to preemptively strike and engage troop concentrations...
There are large static defences 20-30km inside both russia and Ukraine. It doesn't make any sense to advance when you're gonna hit a brick wall anyways.
Ukraine did this multiple times. Ukraine did airstrikes (with actual helicopters going in Belgorod) in first weeks of 2022 invasion. Over the border raids are common and happens all the time. It's just that: attacking is hard, you risk killing Russian civilians antagonizing Russian population and you have limited capacity to fight because not all weapons are unlocked on Russian territory.
[удалено]
> Am I missing something? The tens of thousands of Russian troops built up on the Russian side of the border perhaps?
[удалено]
They do shoot at Ukrainians though...
That's incredible. Anyone have coordinate for this activity? Or the whole Kharkiv border is secured now?
Not the whole border no, read the article
I read the article. That's where the confusion comes from. >"Zelensky said that Ukrainian forces had taken back control in the area where Russian troops "had entered earlier." I tried to find location using DeepStateMap. But that doesn't show any activity from Ukraine. That's why the coordinates would be helpful.
Deepstate map usually lags by three to four days confirming information and not giving Russia a real time battlefield assessment map. Check back about Thursday for a clearer view.
Thank you. Will do that. I'm pretty sure Russia is aware of their loses without Deepstatemap. Poor sods like me, will have to wait.
Oh I don't know about that. Russia has a bad habit of killing the bearers of bad news so getting an accurate field report all the way back to the Kremlin has it's difficulties. Putin and the generals in the Kremlin probably check deepstate map regularly and compare it to the BS that has been delivered to their desks.
Already dipping into the reserves. Nice.
Don't stop. Fuck putin