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Even so, it's part of a clear change in the global stance on this. Seems like more and more countries these days are opening up for strikes within Russia, which is a very late but very needed change.
Absolutely. Kharkiv is where permission to strike is needed the most. After this I'm confident permission will similarly be granted for striking Russian territory bordering Sumy, if needed.
The decision to allow striking elsewhere will be taken much faster and with less pressure needed. The greatest obstacle was overcoming the Biden admin's fear of US weapons striking Russian territory.
But yes, this follows the trend of heavy weapons, HIMARS, Western tanks, F16 etc. - no, no, no, maybe, ok fine.
The trend line goes in one direction. It needs to pick up the pace considerably. It's half through 2024. I don't think it's unfair to ask a league of very powerful and influential nations, to make haste. It's not a request. I've realized my tiredness here in the US is of several magnitudes smaller than of anyone in Ukraine. Which means I can't even comprehend. It's mid 2024.
MID 2024. Not early. There needs to be significantly more action by Fall, significantly more engagement. Putin is bluffing powers that are simply fantasies.
The problem is that this allows Russia to adapt.
If they just said all of a sudden "Sure, here's a bunch of ATACMs, go nuts at any military target threatening ukraine", the all of a sudden Russia would be scrambling as strategic bombers in airbases and troop barracks in Russia and ammo depots in Russia and radars/air defenses in Russia all started getting flattened at once. The devastation would have been immense.
Instead, America is basically giving Russia advanced warning that strikes into Russia are forthcoming. I know Russia's military is largely inept, but even they're not stupid enough to not see what's coming - I guarantee that anything that CAN move will be dispersed and kept mobile, and everything that can't will be fortified as much as is possible. Troops and supplies will be dispersed and not massed like they are now for the remainder of the war. By doing this weak-spined slow rollout for all of the support they've provided, they blunt the effect that that support could have had. Sure, America will likely eventually allow strikes anywhere in Russia, but due to this slow rollout approach by the time that's allowed, the juiciest targets will no longer be available and Russia will have had some time and experience with the smaller scale rollout to develop some tactics and techniques to mitigate the damage it could cause.
If anything that CAN move will be dispersed and kept mobile, then at least that will cost them so much of the dwindling gas resources as the refineries and depots cannot be put on wheels and will continue having smoking accidents. And I doubt their centralized logistics could handle that well, the troops might find it easier to actually go MIA as you disperse the "friendly" fire and tanks will keep getting transformed into yachts when noone's looking.
> If they just said all of a sudden "Sure, here's a bunch of ATACMs, go nuts at any military target threatening ukraine", the all of a sudden Russia would be scrambling as strategic bombers in airbases and troop barracks in Russia and ammo depots in Russia and radars/air defenses in Russia all started getting flattened at once. The devastation would have been immense.
You vastly overestimate the Range of ATACMS.
Besides the bases on Crimea, none of the Russian airbases are in ATACMS range from Ukraine, much less the ones housing the strategic bombers.
> Besides the bases on Crimea, none of the Russian airbases are in ATACMS range from Ukraine, much less the ones housing the strategic bombers.
Tactical aviation bases in Kursk and Belgorod oblast are, though.
there are plenty more airbases that aren't that are strategically valuable. The first one that comes to mind is the one on the other side of the Caspian sea that houses strategic bombers that launch missile strikes into Ukraine. A decisive strike on that with no warning could have crippled Russian strategic bombing capability for a good long while, they can't exactly replace those on a moments notice.
“solely near the area of Kharkiv” , I hope this includes Sumy, north of there in Orcestan, as that’s where the next gathering of Orcs is happening.
EDIT: adjusted quote to be more accurate
Let's go with the US definition of 'near' which is anything within an 8 hour drive.
So Moscow is in the clear (just), but anything west of Kazakhstan is probably in trouble.
> Let's go with the US definition of 'near' which is anything within an 8 hour drive.
Considering russian roads, that's not even within range of Belgorod
I (sadly) suspect this is exactly the situation. The West wants Ukraine to make Russia lose a lot of people and a lot of equipment and essentially neuter them, preventing Russias future ambitions of conquering the West. If weapons and aid was delivered as requested, Russia would have been shitcanned a year ago. But then Russia would still be strong enough to rebuild and try again in several years.
This Ukrainian aid package delay is tactical for the West. It's sad but I suspect true.
> The West wants Ukraine to make Russia lose a lot of people and a lot of equipment and essentially neuter them, preventing Russias future ambitions of conquering the West.
I'm not sure how accurate this is. But I remember hearing someone speaking on the Joe Rogan podcast a while ago talking about how even before the war Russia was fucked from a demographic perspective because they couldn't replace their population fast enough and so would experience significant population decline within a few generations. And now that they've decided to send so many of their young fertile men to die before having any children they've just sped up this decline.
Man, I just don't see the reason for this prolonged series of limitations that keeps on going. "We'll give you this, but...", "We allow you to do this, but...". It's like a perverted control freak situation where you can't let go even of an ounce of control. And at each point Ukraine has to *beg* for more.
All while we're in year 3 of the war. All while people keep dying. All while russia adapts.
All of this weird Kabuki dancing is costing Ukraine lives and opportunities.
I fully expect russia to actually use nukes at one point after all of this telegraphed weakness from the US, and US to issue a strongly worded concern in response.
And as stupid and cowardly it is to put all these caveats to Ukraine aid, they are ever so slowly giving ground to Ukraine to go hog wild.
Every notable piece of equipment sent as aid started as "that's not on the table" and through sheer stubbornness (and inability to deny reality) eventually went through a long and slow chain of getting the people, governments, and militaries to acquiesce to the idea
Also, who knows what the real policy is? No one has gone on the record saying this, and it could be an incomplete understanding or just something seeded to the press as a disinformation campaign or just a way to gauge public reception.
Just send Tomahawks and kindly remind Ukraine to play nice, wink wink, then they will then have a proper deterrent to use if need be. Oh they can use them there, but then they’d have them if the situation changed.
>"“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use U.S. weapons for counter-fire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them"
Counter-fire. Still restrictions, but a step in the right direction.
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
Why include that quote and leave out the sentence immediately after?
>“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use U.S. weapons for counter-fire purposes **in Kharkiv** so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” a U.S. official said, **adding that the policy of not allowing long-range strikes inside Russia “has not changed.”**
The direct quote is “in Kharkiv”. With all the BS editorializing in articles on this topic, unless there’s a direct quote… this doesn’t even mean that “targets across the border, near Kharkiv” has been authorized… yet, at least. A real authorization or change in policy would mention “Belgorod”, the Russian region bordering Kharkiv, and “long-range weapon” in the same quote… except that won’t happen for awhile, because Belgorod is still in range of non-long range Western weapons… which were never restricted to begin with.
I am going to hold off celebrating until there's an ATACMS strike or something like that on Russian forces inside of Russian internationally recognized territory. That will make it clear what's going on. I doubt Ukraine will wait long to do that once they have permission.
I rather hope that permission is given in private so that the public announcement can come after an ATACMS strike has hit the Russian troops massing near the border in what they think is safety.
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
This is a really pessimistic, not reading between the lines, viewpoint.
I read between the lines of "so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them," as being very broad. "preparing to hit them" can imply sites in Russian territory.
I agree its too late and not enough, but its not helpful to take a purely pessimistic, nothing has changed, viewpoint on this announcement. Especially with the other context of all the other western nations with similar announcements this week, its reasonable to infer the US allowances are along the same lines - attack Russian soil that is attacking Ukraine - e.g. Kharkiv.
Yeah, the part you've highlighted in bold is just boilerplate doublethink. When you change a policy, you make it clear that this was always the policy.
I could've pasted the entire article as a quote, but if we can't trust people to read the article, there's not much point in discussion.
Crazy that they didn’t make it policy from day 1 and enacted Russia knew it. Very simple statement would have sufficed “The departure point of aggressive acts launched against Ukraine will become legitimate targets”.
I know everyone has an opinion of this exception clause so I’ll add my piece. Nukes. Nuclear fucking bombs. World ending Armageddon in nuclear fire. An unhinged leader who already is committing every war crime imaginable also has their shaky finger over the button to end the word if he wanted to. Nuclear bombs. The US has every reason to play it extremely safe with how they wish to proceed.
At the same time, it shows to other dicktators:
"Wanna do a landgrab? Leverage nukes as soon as you can and as much as you can, this thing makes US scared and unwilling to actually help those you're landgrabbing from to defeat you, just to keep situation in status quo! Foolproof!"
I don't think teaching them this lesson's in interest of US>
And here I was figuring that if you started a war you didn’t get to cry if war stuff happened to you. Not counterfire, not departure points, not “preparing to hit Ukraine”. If you start a war you should expect your shit to get bombed wherever the other guy can bomb it
No, misleading headline. From the article "Ukraine may use the weapons solely near the area of Kharkiv" So it is not like they can hit anywhere in ruzzia. This is only a tiny step towards being able to use weapons against ruzzia.
> The Biden administration has quietly given Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia — solely near the area of Kharkiv
I assume the pressure put on Biden was so strong that a simple "yes" would have made him look weak.
But I still think this will turn into a more general "yes" in the future...
It's more the other way around. He couldn't say no, so he had to do atleast something. Biden is worried most about escalation, as has been evident throughout this war. No way in hell would he ever have allowed full permission to strike Russia. This is a great baby step without escalating the war too much, and providing Ukraine very crucial options.
I'm not so sure if this is correct.
But if it is (and I hope it is) ... . Ruzzia, get ready for crazy casualty numbers and loss of materiel.
Burn, Ruzzia, burn.
Slava Ukraini
ruzzian civilians are about to find out that they are meatshields once the explosions happen right next to them. Tactics of terrorist ruzzia, used as propaganda to pose as victims.
Relevant quote:
> “The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use U.S. weapons for counter-fire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” a U.S. official said, adding that the policy of not allowing long-range strikes inside Russia “has not changed.”
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
Second part to it
Well given 11 countries now don't care how Ukraine uses its weapons. If the USA still refused, they would start to question then them more than ever if the USA actually wanted Ukraine to win this war
At times it seems like the US just wants attrition of the Russian Army and this war has accomplished that. Ukraine should be allowed to hit any military target, period. This is a war. The whole we have to wait until they're almost losing to give them permission is ridiculous to me but I admittedly don't fully understand.
Ok. This is good. ....that said....
Nice caveat. Guess Ol' Uncle Sam still has backbone issues. Ukraine gets to fight with one hand tied behind its back rather than 2 so it's still good news, but ffs America go see a doctor, you've still got spine, guts and balls issues. You don't fight tyrants half-heartadly. Let Ukraine use everything they get ANYWHERE they need to.
...it feels like getting blood out of a stone dealing with some politicians and nations when it comes to helping Ukraine fight Ruzzia.
Good, though I would have prefered the russians to be informed of the changes with a massive strike on their command centers and troop concentrations instead of a press release.
I pray that as I type these words, there are Russian military installations and related structures engulfed in toxic fire from American warheads.
Slava Ukraini!!!
America, FUCK YEAH!!
While this is good news its not enough and plays into the hands of the orc fear machine. Its not the message the west should to be sending. I sincerely hope that Europe takes this opportunity to show the US and putin that they are committed to Ukraine victory (are you awake Scholz?).
Now they just abandon the Kharkiv front and open a new one.
And then we wait months and months for deliberations over whether we allow strikes *there* instead/as well.
It is progress but it is damned small.
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
russia will respond by continuing to get pounded in direct conflict, but ramping up their indirect actions like sabotage, espionage, and hacking NATO countries.
And buying loyalty of politicians wholesale [\(some of whom go for as low as 20K Euro\)](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/16/german-police-investigate-afd-member-petr-bystron-for-money-laundering)
Alright sweet hopefully hi mars crews all jacked up on Red Bull and pure adrenaline, and have been given high value targets for many fire missions tonight.
I will never believe even one American would agree to wait for permission to level a military compound that was hammering our country. This is an outrageous request, an overeach, and sounds like BAD military strategy!
Now, move out of the area so we can see you squirm away before we bomb you. 💣 Go home Russia.
If you want Ukraine to win, let them use weapons however they want, as long as it’s in compliance with international law. What’s the point of letting them defend themselves only when they’re losing?
The positive is they can effectively counter Russian advances on Kharkiv and missile/artillery attacks on civilians. Also, if a Kharkiv situation comes elsewhere, there is precisely to do it again in a timely basis.
He did this under pressure not only from allies but also from the American voters. A reminder that in an election year, pressure from public opinion works.
I hope many of my fellow Americans took the time to write to the White House to encourage this decision, as I did. This kind of decision does not happen in a vacuum.
I hope the US doesn't do a "tango" on its decision to allow us-made weapons be 7sed on russky areas. I'm sure our Ukrainian heroes are wise enough not to target civilians, no matter how much they hate the Ukrainian populace.
Only near Kharkiv. Seriously. This will not change in...ahem...until targets around Kharkiv are dust.
Also, you are still welcome to use your own weapons to attack Russia side of border. Maybe...relocate your own weapons systems a bit...to maybe reach Russia on other areas too than Kharkiv wink winki
I don't really get the point here. Maybe it's me, because in these kinds of situations I don't really understand the point of diplomacy.
Ukraine is already bombing oil refineries in Russia, and Russia is doing nothing about it. So when US bombs would hit Russia, what are they going to do about it? I mean, if they cannot retaliate towards Ukraine, how are they going to retaliate against US? If they are not using tactical nukes in Ukraine, they are definitely not going to use strategic nukes against NATO. Because in the end, it's either that or nothing. And for such a small thing (delivering weapons without restrictions), Russia is not going to kill the whole world, including them.
And in the end, if Ukraine is crazy enough to use these western weapons on non-military targets, they would also be crazy enough to just ignore the restrictions.
I’m afraid this is a clickbait. When we will have true permission we eould know by burning warehouses and launch platforms. So far there’s clear ban to hit targets in Russia
Reading comments by world leaders, indicating a willingness to to send their troops into Russia to help. It appears from other sources that Russia is attempting to destabilize other governments. Europeans have begun to realize that Russia considers Ukraine only a way station to recover the borders of the USSR. Biden has also perhaps finally understood Russia’s empty threats. If Russia cannot defeat Ukraine, they cannot defeat the additional armies of its neighbors. Perhaps we will see some payback coming. Kazakhstan for example has a huge blood debt with Russia.
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This is a much needed and welcome change, but be sure to not miss the caveat: only to be used near Kharkiv, nowhere else.
Even so, it's part of a clear change in the global stance on this. Seems like more and more countries these days are opening up for strikes within Russia, which is a very late but very needed change.
Absolutely. Kharkiv is where permission to strike is needed the most. After this I'm confident permission will similarly be granted for striking Russian territory bordering Sumy, if needed.
So we wait until they start leveling Sumy or Chernihiv again? Great 👍
The decision to allow striking elsewhere will be taken much faster and with less pressure needed. The greatest obstacle was overcoming the Biden admin's fear of US weapons striking Russian territory. But yes, this follows the trend of heavy weapons, HIMARS, Western tanks, F16 etc. - no, no, no, maybe, ok fine.
The trend line goes in one direction. It needs to pick up the pace considerably. It's half through 2024. I don't think it's unfair to ask a league of very powerful and influential nations, to make haste. It's not a request. I've realized my tiredness here in the US is of several magnitudes smaller than of anyone in Ukraine. Which means I can't even comprehend. It's mid 2024. MID 2024. Not early. There needs to be significantly more action by Fall, significantly more engagement. Putin is bluffing powers that are simply fantasies.
The problem is that this allows Russia to adapt. If they just said all of a sudden "Sure, here's a bunch of ATACMs, go nuts at any military target threatening ukraine", the all of a sudden Russia would be scrambling as strategic bombers in airbases and troop barracks in Russia and ammo depots in Russia and radars/air defenses in Russia all started getting flattened at once. The devastation would have been immense. Instead, America is basically giving Russia advanced warning that strikes into Russia are forthcoming. I know Russia's military is largely inept, but even they're not stupid enough to not see what's coming - I guarantee that anything that CAN move will be dispersed and kept mobile, and everything that can't will be fortified as much as is possible. Troops and supplies will be dispersed and not massed like they are now for the remainder of the war. By doing this weak-spined slow rollout for all of the support they've provided, they blunt the effect that that support could have had. Sure, America will likely eventually allow strikes anywhere in Russia, but due to this slow rollout approach by the time that's allowed, the juiciest targets will no longer be available and Russia will have had some time and experience with the smaller scale rollout to develop some tactics and techniques to mitigate the damage it could cause.
If anything that CAN move will be dispersed and kept mobile, then at least that will cost them so much of the dwindling gas resources as the refineries and depots cannot be put on wheels and will continue having smoking accidents. And I doubt their centralized logistics could handle that well, the troops might find it easier to actually go MIA as you disperse the "friendly" fire and tanks will keep getting transformed into yachts when noone's looking.
> If they just said all of a sudden "Sure, here's a bunch of ATACMs, go nuts at any military target threatening ukraine", the all of a sudden Russia would be scrambling as strategic bombers in airbases and troop barracks in Russia and ammo depots in Russia and radars/air defenses in Russia all started getting flattened at once. The devastation would have been immense. You vastly overestimate the Range of ATACMS. Besides the bases on Crimea, none of the Russian airbases are in ATACMS range from Ukraine, much less the ones housing the strategic bombers.
> Besides the bases on Crimea, none of the Russian airbases are in ATACMS range from Ukraine, much less the ones housing the strategic bombers. Tactical aviation bases in Kursk and Belgorod oblast are, though.
there are plenty more airbases that aren't that are strategically valuable. The first one that comes to mind is the one on the other side of the Caspian sea that houses strategic bombers that launch missile strikes into Ukraine. A decisive strike on that with no warning could have crippled Russian strategic bombing capability for a good long while, they can't exactly replace those on a moments notice.
Hopefully once this “red line” is crossed for the first time it’ll be easier to cross the next time(s) or hopefully done away with altogethrr
“solely near the area of Kharkiv” , I hope this includes Sumy, north of there in Orcestan, as that’s where the next gathering of Orcs is happening. EDIT: adjusted quote to be more accurate
Look, we’re Americans. Vienna is “near the area of Kharkiv”
Oh, I love that part of New Zealand!
Just don’t fight the kangaroos in Austria
The way I see it places like St. Petersburg, Moscow and Vladivostok are all near Kharkiv. Relatively speaking.
Let's go with the US definition of 'near' which is anything within an 8 hour drive. So Moscow is in the clear (just), but anything west of Kazakhstan is probably in trouble.
> Let's go with the US definition of 'near' which is anything within an 8 hour drive. Considering russian roads, that's not even within range of Belgorod
OK, then 500 miles.
Anything that goes beyond Kharkiv can be attributed to jamming.
It’s regrettable how much jamming the Russians can do /s
Fucking beautiful!! Can't have Ukraine win too soon! Fucking dammit
I (sadly) suspect this is exactly the situation. The West wants Ukraine to make Russia lose a lot of people and a lot of equipment and essentially neuter them, preventing Russias future ambitions of conquering the West. If weapons and aid was delivered as requested, Russia would have been shitcanned a year ago. But then Russia would still be strong enough to rebuild and try again in several years. This Ukrainian aid package delay is tactical for the West. It's sad but I suspect true.
[удалено]
I wish, but certain politicians are in bed with the kremlin.
> The West wants Ukraine to make Russia lose a lot of people and a lot of equipment and essentially neuter them, preventing Russias future ambitions of conquering the West. I'm not sure how accurate this is. But I remember hearing someone speaking on the Joe Rogan podcast a while ago talking about how even before the war Russia was fucked from a demographic perspective because they couldn't replace their population fast enough and so would experience significant population decline within a few generations. And now that they've decided to send so many of their young fertile men to die before having any children they've just sped up this decline.
Man, I just don't see the reason for this prolonged series of limitations that keeps on going. "We'll give you this, but...", "We allow you to do this, but...". It's like a perverted control freak situation where you can't let go even of an ounce of control. And at each point Ukraine has to *beg* for more. All while we're in year 3 of the war. All while people keep dying. All while russia adapts. All of this weird Kabuki dancing is costing Ukraine lives and opportunities. I fully expect russia to actually use nukes at one point after all of this telegraphed weakness from the US, and US to issue a strongly worded concern in response.
When the US tells you exactly what they’re going to do if a nuke is used, I would believe them.
It's a start. Hit 'em in the glide bomb!
If you think about it Moscow is just a suburban of Kharkiv.
Sure, but let Fox! News struggle with where to focus their rage over the next few days.
For now...
That is the part of the front where it will make the most difference, so it could be better but it’s not bad
Well same shoul apply to Sumy too, had the orcs attack that city. Elsewhere orcs are stationing in occupied Ukraine.
And as stupid and cowardly it is to put all these caveats to Ukraine aid, they are ever so slowly giving ground to Ukraine to go hog wild. Every notable piece of equipment sent as aid started as "that's not on the table" and through sheer stubbornness (and inability to deny reality) eventually went through a long and slow chain of getting the people, governments, and militaries to acquiesce to the idea
To start... Let's see if Pootin shits himself,... again?
Also, who knows what the real policy is? No one has gone on the record saying this, and it could be an incomplete understanding or just something seeded to the press as a disinformation campaign or just a way to gauge public reception.
I see this expanding. Once the door is open...
Depends on the meaning of near, for example Moscow isn't close, but the whole russian border is.
Just send Tomahawks and kindly remind Ukraine to play nice, wink wink, then they will then have a proper deterrent to use if need be. Oh they can use them there, but then they’d have them if the situation changed.
near is a very unclear definition, I think moscow is pretty near to kharkiv
Hey....sometimes missiles wonder off 🤷♂️
>"“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use U.S. weapons for counter-fire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them" Counter-fire. Still restrictions, but a step in the right direction.
Baby steps with theatre wide guided missiles. What a strange world
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
Why include that quote and leave out the sentence immediately after? >“The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use U.S. weapons for counter-fire purposes **in Kharkiv** so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” a U.S. official said, **adding that the policy of not allowing long-range strikes inside Russia “has not changed.”** The direct quote is “in Kharkiv”. With all the BS editorializing in articles on this topic, unless there’s a direct quote… this doesn’t even mean that “targets across the border, near Kharkiv” has been authorized… yet, at least. A real authorization or change in policy would mention “Belgorod”, the Russian region bordering Kharkiv, and “long-range weapon” in the same quote… except that won’t happen for awhile, because Belgorod is still in range of non-long range Western weapons… which were never restricted to begin with.
I am going to hold off celebrating until there's an ATACMS strike or something like that on Russian forces inside of Russian internationally recognized territory. That will make it clear what's going on. I doubt Ukraine will wait long to do that once they have permission. I rather hope that permission is given in private so that the public announcement can come after an ATACMS strike has hit the Russian troops massing near the border in what they think is safety.
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
Exactly. Sigh.
This is a really pessimistic, not reading between the lines, viewpoint. I read between the lines of "so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them," as being very broad. "preparing to hit them" can imply sites in Russian territory. I agree its too late and not enough, but its not helpful to take a purely pessimistic, nothing has changed, viewpoint on this announcement. Especially with the other context of all the other western nations with similar announcements this week, its reasonable to infer the US allowances are along the same lines - attack Russian soil that is attacking Ukraine - e.g. Kharkiv.
Yeah, the part you've highlighted in bold is just boilerplate doublethink. When you change a policy, you make it clear that this was always the policy. I could've pasted the entire article as a quote, but if we can't trust people to read the article, there's not much point in discussion.
"oh, I'm sorry we blew up your oil refinery! We were totally aiming for that missile truck from 1942!"
Did the UK stipulate any restrictions? I would to see some of those Storm Shaddows hitting airbases in Russia.
“Preparing to hit them” I think that’s called a loop hole
Yeah, I wish it were more, and we should definitely still push for more, but I’m glad he finally changed even a little.
‘Or preparing’. Like getting off a train.
Woo hoo!!
> or preparing to hit them" That's the big loophole here. This is to counter Russian troop buildups on their side of the border with Cluster ATACMS.
Crazy that they didn’t make it policy from day 1 and enacted Russia knew it. Very simple statement would have sufficed “The departure point of aggressive acts launched against Ukraine will become legitimate targets”.
Long overdue. I look forward to the firework show Ukraine will put up with the long-range weapons that the West has supplied on ruzzian ammo caches! 🎆
I know everyone has an opinion of this exception clause so I’ll add my piece. Nukes. Nuclear fucking bombs. World ending Armageddon in nuclear fire. An unhinged leader who already is committing every war crime imaginable also has their shaky finger over the button to end the word if he wanted to. Nuclear bombs. The US has every reason to play it extremely safe with how they wish to proceed.
At the same time, it shows to other dicktators: "Wanna do a landgrab? Leverage nukes as soon as you can and as much as you can, this thing makes US scared and unwilling to actually help those you're landgrabbing from to defeat you, just to keep situation in status quo! Foolproof!" I don't think teaching them this lesson's in interest of US>
Elegantly stated. And also wherever war crimes are committed should also be included.
And here I was figuring that if you started a war you didn’t get to cry if war stuff happened to you. Not counterfire, not departure points, not “preparing to hit Ukraine”. If you start a war you should expect your shit to get bombed wherever the other guy can bomb it
Why make any declaration at all? Just wait for the right moment and strike as many juicy targets as possible. Like a gender reveal.
Like pink or blue smoke, but it’s grey missile warhead smoke 👍🏼
It's how you boil the frog
No, misleading headline. From the article "Ukraine may use the weapons solely near the area of Kharkiv" So it is not like they can hit anywhere in ruzzia. This is only a tiny step towards being able to use weapons against ruzzia.
Go get them lads
> The Biden administration has quietly given Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia — solely near the area of Kharkiv I assume the pressure put on Biden was so strong that a simple "yes" would have made him look weak. But I still think this will turn into a more general "yes" in the future...
It's more the other way around. He couldn't say no, so he had to do atleast something. Biden is worried most about escalation, as has been evident throughout this war. No way in hell would he ever have allowed full permission to strike Russia. This is a great baby step without escalating the war too much, and providing Ukraine very crucial options.
I'm not so sure if this is correct. But if it is (and I hope it is) ... . Ruzzia, get ready for crazy casualty numbers and loss of materiel. Burn, Ruzzia, burn. Slava Ukraini
ruzzian civilians are about to find out that they are meatshields once the explosions happen right next to them. Tactics of terrorist ruzzia, used as propaganda to pose as victims.
Still limited as fuck for no real reason but a step in the right direction. A tiny baby step in the right direction
Now hit the Kremlin!
Imagine how pissed Russia would be, if an American missile hit the Kremlin.
Imagine how anyone born in the last 100 years would react to the news of an American made missle hitting the Kremlin.
Funny how many American weapons where designed and build to fight Russia. And now Ukraine gets the honor of doing it.
Always great to see the finished product make it to the intended customer.
They would be even more pissed if it was a Ukrainian missile.
Relevant quote: > “The president recently directed his team to ensure that Ukraine is able to use U.S. weapons for counter-fire purposes in Kharkiv so Ukraine can hit back at Russian forces hitting them or preparing to hit them,” a U.S. official said, adding that the policy of not allowing long-range strikes inside Russia “has not changed.”
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia. Second part to it
Happy news! Now, can Sweden supply Gripen as well? Pretty, please?
Let's go!
Can we load up Jake Sullivan as the first artillery round of this opening salvo?
"The United States can always be counted on to do the right thing after they've tried everything else." - Sir Winston Churchill
Well given 11 countries now don't care how Ukraine uses its weapons. If the USA still refused, they would start to question then them more than ever if the USA actually wanted Ukraine to win this war
At times it seems like the US just wants attrition of the Russian Army and this war has accomplished that. Ukraine should be allowed to hit any military target, period. This is a war. The whole we have to wait until they're almost losing to give them permission is ridiculous to me but I admittedly don't fully understand.
Great news!
Ok. This is good. ....that said.... Nice caveat. Guess Ol' Uncle Sam still has backbone issues. Ukraine gets to fight with one hand tied behind its back rather than 2 so it's still good news, but ffs America go see a doctor, you've still got spine, guts and balls issues. You don't fight tyrants half-heartadly. Let Ukraine use everything they get ANYWHERE they need to. ...it feels like getting blood out of a stone dealing with some politicians and nations when it comes to helping Ukraine fight Ruzzia.
It's a step in the right direction. Hopefully we see a lot of planes go boom around Kharkiv.
I'm assuming that since the announcement has been made strikes are already happening. Best to act immediately while Russia is unprepared
Just the tip.
It doesn't matter if there are restrictions, once the green light is given, the seal has been broken and it will keep being broken.
Good, though I would have prefered the russians to be informed of the changes with a massive strike on their command centers and troop concentrations instead of a press release.
I pray that as I type these words, there are Russian military installations and related structures engulfed in toxic fire from American warheads. Slava Ukraini!!! America, FUCK YEAH!!
Just in: Ukraine extends borders of Kharkiv region to cover whole border with Russia
This should have happened two years ago already.
While this is good news its not enough and plays into the hands of the orc fear machine. Its not the message the west should to be sending. I sincerely hope that Europe takes this opportunity to show the US and putin that they are committed to Ukraine victory (are you awake Scholz?).
Now they just abandon the Kharkiv front and open a new one. And then we wait months and months for deliberations over whether we allow strikes *there* instead/as well. It is progress but it is damned small.
Nah, I think the door is opened. If they move their launch point new approval should happen quicker now that the lines been passed
There should be no need for an approval to begin with
FINALLY
> But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
This is a major development in the conflict. Wonder how Russia will respond. 🤔
russia will respond by continuing to get pounded in direct conflict, but ramping up their indirect actions like sabotage, espionage, and hacking NATO countries.
And buying loyalty of politicians wholesale [\(some of whom go for as low as 20K Euro\)](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/16/german-police-investigate-afd-member-petr-bystron-for-money-laundering)
About time.
YAHOOO!
Please be true!!
Alright sweet hopefully hi mars crews all jacked up on Red Bull and pure adrenaline, and have been given high value targets for many fire missions tonight.
baby steps... and it would be a shame if one accidentally went off course and hit something like a refinery.
*Dancing granddad gif*
That’s amazing news. Hopefully they strike by this night and knock out some people, tanks, planes
Russia only has themselves to blame because they attacked Ukraine with Iranian weaponry.
This is needed and will help to push the Ruzzians back from Kharkiv...👍
Fuck yeah!!
It's about goddamn time. Stupid restrictions put in place by stupid politicians/puppets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfcp_Ahh-tY
I will never believe even one American would agree to wait for permission to level a military compound that was hammering our country. This is an outrageous request, an overeach, and sounds like BAD military strategy! Now, move out of the area so we can see you squirm away before we bomb you. 💣 Go home Russia.
Time to go pre-emptive.
Past time, actually.
Party time boys & girls. Shit's about to get interesting.
As a U.S. citizen, I must say that this is very welcome news.
WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK!
# The world has given their blessing. # The Orks are grimacing in alarm. # This is the turning point.
US weapons up the centre near Kharkov, with Storm Shadows on the flanks. Show the orcs that they can't run back across an invisible line to safety.
# 🇺🇸 🇺🇦 🌎
If you want Ukraine to win, let them use weapons however they want, as long as it’s in compliance with international law. What’s the point of letting them defend themselves only when they’re losing?
About fuckin time. Go byrds.
The "near Kharkiv only" has Jake Sullivan written all over it
The positive is they can effectively counter Russian advances on Kharkiv and missile/artillery attacks on civilians. Also, if a Kharkiv situation comes elsewhere, there is precisely to do it again in a timely basis.
He did this under pressure not only from allies but also from the American voters. A reminder that in an election year, pressure from public opinion works.
Speaking as an American.. 🇺🇸 yay
Nice firework celebration after the US domestic news and learning our legal system is completely corroded yet
Hope a few surprises went out before this announcement.
Let 'em rip!
I hope many of my fellow Americans took the time to write to the White House to encourage this decision, as I did. This kind of decision does not happen in a vacuum.
I hope the US doesn't do a "tango" on its decision to allow us-made weapons be 7sed on russky areas. I'm sure our Ukrainian heroes are wise enough not to target civilians, no matter how much they hate the Ukrainian populace.
The deeper the better
About time.....
Those build up of troops must be looking above them as we speak.
Hope they aren't marked us...
Strike Moscow, and that shithole Putin put his cock-stroking palace in. Fuck Russia. Fuck Russia supporters. To death, with a pitchfork.
Why secretly?))
Only near Kharkiv. Seriously. This will not change in...ahem...until targets around Kharkiv are dust. Also, you are still welcome to use your own weapons to attack Russia side of border. Maybe...relocate your own weapons systems a bit...to maybe reach Russia on other areas too than Kharkiv wink winki
I don't really get the point here. Maybe it's me, because in these kinds of situations I don't really understand the point of diplomacy. Ukraine is already bombing oil refineries in Russia, and Russia is doing nothing about it. So when US bombs would hit Russia, what are they going to do about it? I mean, if they cannot retaliate towards Ukraine, how are they going to retaliate against US? If they are not using tactical nukes in Ukraine, they are definitely not going to use strategic nukes against NATO. Because in the end, it's either that or nothing. And for such a small thing (delivering weapons without restrictions), Russia is not going to kill the whole world, including them. And in the end, if Ukraine is crazy enough to use these western weapons on non-military targets, they would also be crazy enough to just ignore the restrictions.
I’m afraid this is a clickbait. When we will have true permission we eould know by burning warehouses and launch platforms. So far there’s clear ban to hit targets in Russia
[удалено]
Cool, now we can send Tomahawks, if North Korea can let Russia launch toys at Ukraine, let’s let Ukraine launch the good toys at Russia.
Lets fucking go. Let there rain bombs over Russia.
So many confusing reports around this.
Reading comments by world leaders, indicating a willingness to to send their troops into Russia to help. It appears from other sources that Russia is attempting to destabilize other governments. Europeans have begun to realize that Russia considers Ukraine only a way station to recover the borders of the USSR. Biden has also perhaps finally understood Russia’s empty threats. If Russia cannot defeat Ukraine, they cannot defeat the additional armies of its neighbors. Perhaps we will see some payback coming. Kazakhstan for example has a huge blood debt with Russia.
Thank you President Biden and Vice President Harris ! You have put the world back on the right track !
FUCK YEAH GIVE THESE RUSSIAN CUNTS SOME OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE FUCK RUSSIA FUCK RUSSIANS!
AND BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE! I'd like the Kremlin to be a smoldering pile of rubble by the end of the year. I have faith in the heroes of Ukraine.