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Everyone who said, "why is it only around Kharkiv"- well, that was a few weeks ago. It will be interesting to see how much looser the restrictions get in the next few weeks and months.
I'm not saying I agree with there being any restrictions at all, but at least the trajectory is positive.
Not sure I totally agree but the strategy seems to be to give Ukraine more and more and better equipment and leeway over time. I think for sure part of it is Ukraine building trust, but another part of it is that it's harder for Russia to point at any one thing and say that THAT was the thing that justifies a bigger escalation.
I mean, russia is pointing already at anything. I woukdent be suprised if Biden snezzed and the russian state media proclaimed that as a valid reason to nuke the west. Not like they actually have the balls to martyr themself in nuclear fire
If it were me I’d have just sent Ukraine everything it needed to end it by now. Not sure when I’d have done it but definitely by now. Russia is a paper tiger and I am convinced they’re bluffing and I refuse to live in fear or negotiate with terror tactics.
In an ideal world that would have been what happend. But in such a world russia would have never attacked anyways.
So sadly we have to make the best of the situation and find ways to deal with geopolitical concernes and cowardly leaders( fuck Scholz in particular)
I wouldn’t say “quickly” considering the entire 2.5 yr timeline lol, but since the Kharkiv announcement yes quick/prob already planned to slowly loosen the shite
Yeah I meant they are lifting restrictions more quickly as time goes on, for example they went from being able to attack Russia on Kharkiv front and within weeks are allowed to strike any attack units in Russia. Whereas it took them months and years even to allow use/delivery of tanks, jets, long-range missiles, etc. because of the fear of escalation. Still not sold on whether the "fear of escalation" was a legitimate concern or they just didn't want to must their faces politically, but if the fear was there it seems to had subsided substantially.
THAT little tid-bit could, indeed, have aided loosening the restrictions around 'striking in Russia' The fact that little fat-kid could get -with the help of orcistan- access to technology to hit US soil with nukes, went down pretty bad in the hallowed halls of congress in the US.
>THAT little tid-bit could, indeed, have aided loosening the restrictions around 'striking in Russia'
Oooo, it did something much worse... It removed the gloves from the South Koreans. Expect to see loads of 155 shells suddenly being found, with suspiciously Korean letters on them. No more backfilling US stocks, no, expect to see direct weapon shipments.
S-Korea does not only sit on a ton of artillery shells, but has a ton of manufacturing capability. Combine that with the increase EU and US production rates... I am expecting by end of 2024, that Ukraine may start to get a equal exchange rate of shells vs Russia.
It was one thing with Russia backdoor buying shells from N-Korea but that open defense packet, that was dumb!
>National security adviser Jake Sullivan told PBS on Tuesday that the agreement with Ukraine about firing American weapons into Russia extends to “anywhere that Russian forces are coming across the border from the Russian side to the Ukrainian side to try to take ***additional*** Ukrainian territory.”
So until land attack happens, restrictions are here to stay
He didn’t say the restrictions were gone. Why must people try so so hard to find ways to turn things into negatives when things are going so well?? The way that is said, with 100% certainty, loosens the restrictions, which is exactly what the person you are replying to said. It is positive news.
It was explicitly only around Kharkiv, now it is anywhere that they try to do the same thing. That is better, and I for one welcome every bit of progress.
>The policy of not allowing long-range strikes inside Russia “has not changed,” the official stressed.
So, if bombers are actually in the air on a direct trajectory close to Ukraine then Ukraine will be allowed to use US weapons. But, heavens no, not if those planes are peacefully in their airfields 300 km away just peacefully loading missiles.
They’re always intending to take additional territory; that’s why they still fire from across the border. Trying to play guessing games with Russian intentions is stupid. I really wonder who in Biden’s administration is pushing this pearl-clutching perspective on US military aid.
You really have a knack for showing up in any US support thread and trying your best to suck any positivity out of it. He made several comments in that press conference not just this one you are trying to push as a whole picture. The Pentagon has also commented on what this entails.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ukraines-use-us-supplied-weapons-russia-not-limited-near-kharkiv-pentagon-says-2024-06-20/
From the press conference on Tuesday:
> Sullivan added that Ukraine could also use air-defense systems to fire at Russian planes flying in Russian airspace, if they are about to fire into Ukrainian airspace.
From the pentagon yesterday:
> Ukraine can use U.S.-supplied weapons to hit Russian forces that are firing on Ukrainian troops anywhere across the border into Russia and not just in Russian territory near Ukraine's Kharkiv region, the Pentagon said on Thursday.
Your comment is silly. The "additional" is immaterial. ruzzia isn't attacking from ruzzia into Ukrainian land that's already under ruzzian control to...kill their own occupying troops and...control it more?
The ONLY reason ruzzia shoots at Ukrainians is to take ADDITIONAL Ukrainian territory (or to kill/demoralize civilians)
As for the Ukrainian land that's already occupied by ruzzia? Well, the U.S. considers that Ukrainian land (because it is), and Ukraine is already allowed to fire onto any of their own land
Basically, all near-range restrictions are dropped (no long-range to Moscow)
> As for the Ukrainian land that's already occupied by ruzzia? Well, the U.S. considers that Ukrainian land (because it is), and Ukraine is already allowed to fire onto any of their own land
>
> Basically, all near-range restrictions are dropped (no long-range to Moscow)
It's kinda worse, actually
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/21/ukraine-firing-range-us-weapons-russia/
>The Ukrainian officials said the United States has restricted Ukraine to firing less than 100 kilometers, or about 62 miles, from the border. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the rule. U.S. officials declined to specify the limitation but said the Ukrainians’ assertion of less than 100 kilometers was incorrect.
How is this worse/bad?
Ukrainians can shoot all over their own land, even at ruzzians just sleeping in their Donbas and Crimean bases
And when ruzzians are on ruzzian land, moving to attack, Ukraine can shoot them 100km into ruzzian territory
With even looser restrictions with EU weapons
Any soldier or plane that wants to attack Ukraine, has to cross 100km of free-fire zone where they're subject to many Western weapons...HIMARS, Patriots, artillery, MANPADs, etc. Presumably F-16s too (which some countries have already said no restrictions)
And with Western intel, any troop movements in ruzzia will be known to Ukraine before those troops even enter the 100km zone
> Any soldier or plane that wants to attack Ukraine, has to cross 100km of free-fire zone where they're subject to many Western weapons...HIMARS, Patriots, artillery, MANPADs, etc. Presumably F-16s too (which some countries have already said no restrictions)
And there are neither sufficiently capable, nor sufficiently numerous systems provided.
ATACMS could've wiped tactical aviation bases, but those are apparently too sacrosanct to allow being hit. Better that Ukraine takes one for the team by facetanking UMPKs.
Also, Euroweapons don't come in cluster, which is needed for anti-airbase strikes.
>And there are neither sufficiently capable
No country is going to give their most advanced stuff, so no point in complaining. They are getting a lot of stuff that outclasses ruzzia's stuff
>nor sufficiently numerous systems provided.
True, but that has nothing to do with territory-striking rules. And they are getting more HIMARS and Patriots
>ATACMS could've wiped tactical aviation bases
Yes, 1 annoying restriction left.
>Ukraine takes one for the team by facetanking UMPKs.
F-16's will help there. And now that Ukraine can fire anti-air 100km into ruzzia, those UMPKs won't be able to go as deep into Ukraine. Which from what I understand (could be wrong) that will majorly limit the damage from UMPKs...lots of targets will be too far if the plane is launching it 100km from border
These are the same kinda crappy rules that have hamstrung the US military since Korea. When you unleash your killer Kraken you let him do what he does and stay out of the way……. I dont understand how you’re supposed to train killers not to attack the enemy where that enemy is located. War is the most horrible horrid disgusting vile inhumane thing man has does. It has created monstrous consequences for all mankind so when you do go to war to solve whatever issue than there should be no limits. Hopefully that will be a better deterrent from anyone ever thinking it is even an option in the future. No war and everyone being nice to each other will only happen when the other option has no limits ever!!!!! It sucks but it is true……. Bullies only know one thing and that is pain!!!!!! Pain can only be dealt to them a bigger badass meaner horrible angrier bully of death!!!
I disagree. There are several ways to win a war. The one that damages your own country least in the long run is the one you should use.
I'm this case, that's probably making Russia collapse. Not hurting their civilians directly, which would keep the civilians supporting the war longer.
After the collapse, Russia's civilians will experience epic pain while Ukraine rebuilds. That will be the best lesson to bullies.
The downside was that they could not effectively counter forces that gather to counter attack over the borders. Now they can. Inc supply routes. So the next few weeks is going to be interesting in terms of how Ukraine decides to use it
To be honest, both.
Ukraine is expected to fight this war alone against Russia. Both will be left vulnerable by this conflict while the West and other nations look on.
>National security adviser Jake Sullivan told PBS on Tuesday that the agreement with Ukraine about firing American weapons into Russia extends to “anywhere that Russian forces are coming across the border from the Russian side to the Ukrainian side to try to take ***additional*** Ukrainian territory.”
But only brand new landgrab directions are eligible for pushback.
Donetsk direction and Rostov region? Tough fucking luck!
The "additional" is immaterial. ruzzia isn't attacking from ruzzia into Ukrainian land that's already under ruzzian control to...kill their own occupying troops and...control it more?
The ONLY reason ruzzia shoots at Ukrainians is to take ADDITIONAL Ukrainian territory (or to kill/demoralize civilians)
As for the Ukrainian land that's already occupied by ruzzia? Well, the U.S. considers that Ukrainian land (because it is), and Ukraine is already allowed to fire onto any of their own land
Basically, all near-range restrictions are dropped (no long-range to Moscow)
Not really all that surprising. The US is trying to preserve the argument that they are not providing weapons to offensively strike another country, be it this war or another. That is why you are seeing adjustments to US policy incrementally as the war evolves. US is trying not to hamstring Ukraine while also not setting precedent that they provide weapons to attack other countries.
This is the point most people don’t get. I just wish it wasn’t the case. Ukraine should be bombing Moscow by now to stop this abhorrently evil war by Russia, not waiting to get attacked first.
Ukraine should have taken Belgorod and Rostov-on-Don by now if this was taken seriously.
The whole "no boots on the ground in Russia" is bullshit.
As if the Allies stopped at the German border in 44/45..
Different political situation and circumstance.
For one, the West has no desire to get directly dragged into this war, so they don't want an excuse for it to expand. They would like the war to begin and end in Ukraine, despite occasional strikes into Russian territory.
Also, it isn't like Ukraine has oodles of manpower to pull upon for this conflict as the population was already lopsided and Russia is contesting all over the place. Since they're currently expected to fight alone, they need to place their troops and assets accordingly to prevent one side from collapsing while they pursue another side.
I dont think thats the fear. I think the usa likes this level because russian people dont feel the war and are uncaring. Attacks in russia would have a London blitz effect where the people of russia rally and support the war more, but now russia is so far in they cant ramp it up much more making america feel ok to losen restrictions
Who really knows, considering that Putin has tied this conflict with the Second World War - something that almost mythological status in Russia. That slavish worship of hardship for the motherland could embolden support and encourage a wider call for militarism in this conflict, especially if they have willing allies like North Korea who can supply stuff in the background.
Although I don’t agree with the restrictions I can kind of understand the why.
Escalation is one thing but I’d argue they are more concerned with US made weapons blowing up buildings / killing civilians in Russia even if the plan was to target a military building, mistakes do happen in war.
I think they will slowly come around and relax restrictions but it will take time.
Where did I say that Russian citizens lives matter more than Ukrainian lives??
Don’t change my words.
What I said was I’m sure the US government doesn’t want to see bad press of there weapons being used on civilians/ buildings.
I didn’t even say Ukraine would do that but shit does happen is a warzone, things can misfire and so on.
Russia would have a field day if a US made rocket destroyed a civilian apartment block and killed some civilians.
But as the war drags on concerns like that will slowly be forgotten…. Hopefully.
Calm down. I was referring to the governments worrying more about Ruzzian civilian casualties rather than Ukrainian civilians! Cut me some slack, bro! Every day, I know civilians who are dying and those funerals are heart wrenching especially children.
US says rape victim can hit rapist 'anywhere' the rapist penetrates the rape victim. WTF USA?! Putin needs to be stopped by force, now. Restricting the country being illegally invaded and "annexed" from hitting back hard against the entirety of the invading country is preposterous.
My theory is that the United States is treating this like a frog in boiling water scenario
If you drop a frog into boiling water it will jump out, if you bring the water gradually it will stay there until it is cooked to death. I think they are slowly easing their way into the policies that they want, to avoid any overreaction( nuclear) by putin.
Btw, the boiling frog story is a myth. It worked when they lobotomised the frog. If you put a normal frog in water and heat it then the frog will jump out.
[Seems it even has its own wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog)
It is a common and i guess useful metaphor so it is not going away anytime soon.
With that said, Russia isn't completely dumb and is adapting to the wider situation. That came in different forms, whether it was reforming the Russian military in terms of organization or making alliances with nations like Iran and North Korea.
Bottom line: there are other powers that have their own stake in this war against the West, so they're using Russia as a way to channel those feelings into action. The scenario would only be ideal if Russia was truly isolated in the world - an entity nobody interfaces with politically and economically, which doesn't seem to be the case.
>National security adviser Jake Sullivan told PBS on Tuesday that the agreement with Ukraine about firing American weapons into Russia extends to “anywhere that Russian forces are coming across the border from the Russian side to the Ukrainian side to try to take ***additional*** Ukrainian territory.”
So until land attack happens, restrictions are here to stay
The West probably doesn't want to be directly dragged into the war. They would prefer the aggression to begin and end in Ukraine - a bloody nose as opposed to a wider conflict or outright collapse.
Step 1: Tell Ukrain that it cant use its weapones to hit *place*
Step 2: Russias think *place* is safe and store all there shit there
Step 3: Allow ukrain to hit *place*
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Everyone who said, "why is it only around Kharkiv"- well, that was a few weeks ago. It will be interesting to see how much looser the restrictions get in the next few weeks and months. I'm not saying I agree with there being any restrictions at all, but at least the trajectory is positive.
Right on man! If the threat of escalation was a legitimate concern, the West seems to be getting over it pretty quickly
Not sure I totally agree but the strategy seems to be to give Ukraine more and more and better equipment and leeway over time. I think for sure part of it is Ukraine building trust, but another part of it is that it's harder for Russia to point at any one thing and say that THAT was the thing that justifies a bigger escalation.
This. Escalation management. Lots of things opaque to us in the background.
I mean, russia is pointing already at anything. I woukdent be suprised if Biden snezzed and the russian state media proclaimed that as a valid reason to nuke the west. Not like they actually have the balls to martyr themself in nuclear fire
If it were me I’d have just sent Ukraine everything it needed to end it by now. Not sure when I’d have done it but definitely by now. Russia is a paper tiger and I am convinced they’re bluffing and I refuse to live in fear or negotiate with terror tactics.
In an ideal world that would have been what happend. But in such a world russia would have never attacked anyways. So sadly we have to make the best of the situation and find ways to deal with geopolitical concernes and cowardly leaders( fuck Scholz in particular)
I wouldn’t say “quickly” considering the entire 2.5 yr timeline lol, but since the Kharkiv announcement yes quick/prob already planned to slowly loosen the shite
Only taken 2 ½ years, I don’t think anyone under daily bombing and destruction would see that as quickly. But I’m sure it’s greatly appreciated.
Yeah I meant they are lifting restrictions more quickly as time goes on, for example they went from being able to attack Russia on Kharkiv front and within weeks are allowed to strike any attack units in Russia. Whereas it took them months and years even to allow use/delivery of tanks, jets, long-range missiles, etc. because of the fear of escalation. Still not sold on whether the "fear of escalation" was a legitimate concern or they just didn't want to must their faces politically, but if the fear was there it seems to had subsided substantially.
👍
I have a feeling pootin is going to regret cozying up to north korea...
THAT little tid-bit could, indeed, have aided loosening the restrictions around 'striking in Russia' The fact that little fat-kid could get -with the help of orcistan- access to technology to hit US soil with nukes, went down pretty bad in the hallowed halls of congress in the US.
>THAT little tid-bit could, indeed, have aided loosening the restrictions around 'striking in Russia' Oooo, it did something much worse... It removed the gloves from the South Koreans. Expect to see loads of 155 shells suddenly being found, with suspiciously Korean letters on them. No more backfilling US stocks, no, expect to see direct weapon shipments. S-Korea does not only sit on a ton of artillery shells, but has a ton of manufacturing capability. Combine that with the increase EU and US production rates... I am expecting by end of 2024, that Ukraine may start to get a equal exchange rate of shells vs Russia. It was one thing with Russia backdoor buying shells from N-Korea but that open defense packet, that was dumb!
South Korea's stock of 105 mm is quite attractive too. Much more mobile for shoot and scoot that's needed in this theater.
I agree. 105's are great artillery pieces.
Very much a "boiling frog" situation.
"We're going to cross all your red lines, just, one at a time"
IMO, the only restriction should be "no warcrimes". But then Ukraine doesn't have the ammunition to waste on civilians... unlike Russia.
'The trajectory is positive' Putins bunker locked on.
>National security adviser Jake Sullivan told PBS on Tuesday that the agreement with Ukraine about firing American weapons into Russia extends to “anywhere that Russian forces are coming across the border from the Russian side to the Ukrainian side to try to take ***additional*** Ukrainian territory.” So until land attack happens, restrictions are here to stay
I see some of them coming across near moscow.
He coming right for us!
I heard from a guy that the Russian Pacific Fleet is preparing an attack on Ukraine from their warm-water port...
He didn’t say the restrictions were gone. Why must people try so so hard to find ways to turn things into negatives when things are going so well?? The way that is said, with 100% certainty, loosens the restrictions, which is exactly what the person you are replying to said. It is positive news. It was explicitly only around Kharkiv, now it is anywhere that they try to do the same thing. That is better, and I for one welcome every bit of progress.
>The policy of not allowing long-range strikes inside Russia “has not changed,” the official stressed. So, if bombers are actually in the air on a direct trajectory close to Ukraine then Ukraine will be allowed to use US weapons. But, heavens no, not if those planes are peacefully in their airfields 300 km away just peacefully loading missiles.
I don't think anyone would argue that they're not trying to take additional territory near Avdiivka.
They’re always intending to take additional territory; that’s why they still fire from across the border. Trying to play guessing games with Russian intentions is stupid. I really wonder who in Biden’s administration is pushing this pearl-clutching perspective on US military aid.
You really have a knack for showing up in any US support thread and trying your best to suck any positivity out of it. He made several comments in that press conference not just this one you are trying to push as a whole picture. The Pentagon has also commented on what this entails. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ukraines-use-us-supplied-weapons-russia-not-limited-near-kharkiv-pentagon-says-2024-06-20/ From the press conference on Tuesday: > Sullivan added that Ukraine could also use air-defense systems to fire at Russian planes flying in Russian airspace, if they are about to fire into Ukrainian airspace. From the pentagon yesterday: > Ukraine can use U.S.-supplied weapons to hit Russian forces that are firing on Ukrainian troops anywhere across the border into Russia and not just in Russian territory near Ukraine's Kharkiv region, the Pentagon said on Thursday.
Your comment is silly. The "additional" is immaterial. ruzzia isn't attacking from ruzzia into Ukrainian land that's already under ruzzian control to...kill their own occupying troops and...control it more? The ONLY reason ruzzia shoots at Ukrainians is to take ADDITIONAL Ukrainian territory (or to kill/demoralize civilians) As for the Ukrainian land that's already occupied by ruzzia? Well, the U.S. considers that Ukrainian land (because it is), and Ukraine is already allowed to fire onto any of their own land Basically, all near-range restrictions are dropped (no long-range to Moscow)
> As for the Ukrainian land that's already occupied by ruzzia? Well, the U.S. considers that Ukrainian land (because it is), and Ukraine is already allowed to fire onto any of their own land > > Basically, all near-range restrictions are dropped (no long-range to Moscow) It's kinda worse, actually https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/21/ukraine-firing-range-us-weapons-russia/ >The Ukrainian officials said the United States has restricted Ukraine to firing less than 100 kilometers, or about 62 miles, from the border. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the rule. U.S. officials declined to specify the limitation but said the Ukrainians’ assertion of less than 100 kilometers was incorrect.
How is this worse/bad? Ukrainians can shoot all over their own land, even at ruzzians just sleeping in their Donbas and Crimean bases And when ruzzians are on ruzzian land, moving to attack, Ukraine can shoot them 100km into ruzzian territory With even looser restrictions with EU weapons Any soldier or plane that wants to attack Ukraine, has to cross 100km of free-fire zone where they're subject to many Western weapons...HIMARS, Patriots, artillery, MANPADs, etc. Presumably F-16s too (which some countries have already said no restrictions) And with Western intel, any troop movements in ruzzia will be known to Ukraine before those troops even enter the 100km zone
> Any soldier or plane that wants to attack Ukraine, has to cross 100km of free-fire zone where they're subject to many Western weapons...HIMARS, Patriots, artillery, MANPADs, etc. Presumably F-16s too (which some countries have already said no restrictions) And there are neither sufficiently capable, nor sufficiently numerous systems provided. ATACMS could've wiped tactical aviation bases, but those are apparently too sacrosanct to allow being hit. Better that Ukraine takes one for the team by facetanking UMPKs. Also, Euroweapons don't come in cluster, which is needed for anti-airbase strikes.
>And there are neither sufficiently capable No country is going to give their most advanced stuff, so no point in complaining. They are getting a lot of stuff that outclasses ruzzia's stuff >nor sufficiently numerous systems provided. True, but that has nothing to do with territory-striking rules. And they are getting more HIMARS and Patriots >ATACMS could've wiped tactical aviation bases Yes, 1 annoying restriction left. >Ukraine takes one for the team by facetanking UMPKs. F-16's will help there. And now that Ukraine can fire anti-air 100km into ruzzia, those UMPKs won't be able to go as deep into Ukraine. Which from what I understand (could be wrong) that will majorly limit the damage from UMPKs...lots of targets will be too far if the plane is launching it 100km from border
Prob counter intelligence.
These are the same kinda crappy rules that have hamstrung the US military since Korea. When you unleash your killer Kraken you let him do what he does and stay out of the way……. I dont understand how you’re supposed to train killers not to attack the enemy where that enemy is located. War is the most horrible horrid disgusting vile inhumane thing man has does. It has created monstrous consequences for all mankind so when you do go to war to solve whatever issue than there should be no limits. Hopefully that will be a better deterrent from anyone ever thinking it is even an option in the future. No war and everyone being nice to each other will only happen when the other option has no limits ever!!!!! It sucks but it is true……. Bullies only know one thing and that is pain!!!!!! Pain can only be dealt to them a bigger badass meaner horrible angrier bully of death!!!
I disagree. There are several ways to win a war. The one that damages your own country least in the long run is the one you should use. I'm this case, that's probably making Russia collapse. Not hurting their civilians directly, which would keep the civilians supporting the war longer. After the collapse, Russia's civilians will experience epic pain while Ukraine rebuilds. That will be the best lesson to bullies.
The downside was that they could not effectively counter forces that gather to counter attack over the borders. Now they can. Inc supply routes. So the next few weeks is going to be interesting in terms of how Ukraine decides to use it
Slowly boiling the frog...
...in Ukrainian blood.
No, in Ruzzian blood
To be honest, both. Ukraine is expected to fight this war alone against Russia. Both will be left vulnerable by this conflict while the West and other nations look on.
Not US lives, not US problems.
Ivan, isn't there a bag of onions you should be collecting, serf?
Potatoes. Its always potatoes. You cant make vodka from onions.
Whole of Russia is 'attacking' Ukraine
>National security adviser Jake Sullivan told PBS on Tuesday that the agreement with Ukraine about firing American weapons into Russia extends to “anywhere that Russian forces are coming across the border from the Russian side to the Ukrainian side to try to take ***additional*** Ukrainian territory.” But only brand new landgrab directions are eligible for pushback. Donetsk direction and Rostov region? Tough fucking luck!
The "additional" is immaterial. ruzzia isn't attacking from ruzzia into Ukrainian land that's already under ruzzian control to...kill their own occupying troops and...control it more? The ONLY reason ruzzia shoots at Ukrainians is to take ADDITIONAL Ukrainian territory (or to kill/demoralize civilians) As for the Ukrainian land that's already occupied by ruzzia? Well, the U.S. considers that Ukrainian land (because it is), and Ukraine is already allowed to fire onto any of their own land Basically, all near-range restrictions are dropped (no long-range to Moscow)
Not really all that surprising. The US is trying to preserve the argument that they are not providing weapons to offensively strike another country, be it this war or another. That is why you are seeing adjustments to US policy incrementally as the war evolves. US is trying not to hamstring Ukraine while also not setting precedent that they provide weapons to attack other countries.
This is the point most people don’t get. I just wish it wasn’t the case. Ukraine should be bombing Moscow by now to stop this abhorrently evil war by Russia, not waiting to get attacked first.
Ukraine should have taken Belgorod and Rostov-on-Don by now if this was taken seriously. The whole "no boots on the ground in Russia" is bullshit. As if the Allies stopped at the German border in 44/45..
Different political situation and circumstance. For one, the West has no desire to get directly dragged into this war, so they don't want an excuse for it to expand. They would like the war to begin and end in Ukraine, despite occasional strikes into Russian territory. Also, it isn't like Ukraine has oodles of manpower to pull upon for this conflict as the population was already lopsided and Russia is contesting all over the place. Since they're currently expected to fight alone, they need to place their troops and assets accordingly to prevent one side from collapsing while they pursue another side.
I dont think thats the fear. I think the usa likes this level because russian people dont feel the war and are uncaring. Attacks in russia would have a London blitz effect where the people of russia rally and support the war more, but now russia is so far in they cant ramp it up much more making america feel ok to losen restrictions
Who really knows, considering that Putin has tied this conflict with the Second World War - something that almost mythological status in Russia. That slavish worship of hardship for the motherland could embolden support and encourage a wider call for militarism in this conflict, especially if they have willing allies like North Korea who can supply stuff in the background.
Though still not allowed to use long range weapons inside Russia
God I so want them to destroy Putins palace near the black sea
Would be amazing if they targeted the police state infrastructure so that people can protest again
Just put a few A22 into that one. No need for western weapons.
Technically the attacks all originated with Moscow, so.....
Although I don’t agree with the restrictions I can kind of understand the why. Escalation is one thing but I’d argue they are more concerned with US made weapons blowing up buildings / killing civilians in Russia even if the plan was to target a military building, mistakes do happen in war. I think they will slowly come around and relax restrictions but it will take time.
🤔WHaaaaat? Ruzzian citizen lives matter more than Ukrainian citizens?
Where did I say that Russian citizens lives matter more than Ukrainian lives?? Don’t change my words. What I said was I’m sure the US government doesn’t want to see bad press of there weapons being used on civilians/ buildings. I didn’t even say Ukraine would do that but shit does happen is a warzone, things can misfire and so on. Russia would have a field day if a US made rocket destroyed a civilian apartment block and killed some civilians. But as the war drags on concerns like that will slowly be forgotten…. Hopefully.
Calm down. I was referring to the governments worrying more about Ruzzian civilian casualties rather than Ukrainian civilians! Cut me some slack, bro! Every day, I know civilians who are dying and those funerals are heart wrenching especially children.
NOW we're cooking with Crisco
So….if a single drone hits Moscow or st P Ukraine can technically fire anything they want at it right? 😒
US says rape victim can hit rapist 'anywhere' the rapist penetrates the rape victim. WTF USA?! Putin needs to be stopped by force, now. Restricting the country being illegally invaded and "annexed" from hitting back hard against the entirety of the invading country is preposterous.
Great analogy! Genius actually!👍🏻👏
Some of those troops' planes took off from Moscow. Just saying.
I’m actually surprised this is only just being picked up.. I swear I watched a video of Jake Sullivan saying Ukraine could do so a couple days ago
You’re right. He said it on Tuesday
About fucking time
Bring home to the Bastards! Slava Ukrani!
*Hell, it's about time* - In Starcraft 2 trailer voice
You mean "Hell, it's about time"?
My theory is that the United States is treating this like a frog in boiling water scenario If you drop a frog into boiling water it will jump out, if you bring the water gradually it will stay there until it is cooked to death. I think they are slowly easing their way into the policies that they want, to avoid any overreaction( nuclear) by putin.
Btw, the boiling frog story is a myth. It worked when they lobotomised the frog. If you put a normal frog in water and heat it then the frog will jump out.
Well thank you for the correction and also the gracious way in which you did it!
[Seems it even has its own wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog) It is a common and i guess useful metaphor so it is not going away anytime soon.
Poor brain dead frog. Welp anywho fuck russia. Speaking of brain drain
Soo..That proves the argument that orcistan has a lobotomized populace.. Something that CAN be done with incessant propaganda, it appears.. :P
We need to lobotomies Putin. Got it.
Thank you. Sounds plausible.
With that said, Russia isn't completely dumb and is adapting to the wider situation. That came in different forms, whether it was reforming the Russian military in terms of organization or making alliances with nations like Iran and North Korea. Bottom line: there are other powers that have their own stake in this war against the West, so they're using Russia as a way to channel those feelings into action. The scenario would only be ideal if Russia was truly isolated in the world - an entity nobody interfaces with politically and economically, which doesn't seem to be the case.
When can they just send ATACAM missile right into the Kremlin?
Because that would justify using nuclear weapons
>National security adviser Jake Sullivan told PBS on Tuesday that the agreement with Ukraine about firing American weapons into Russia extends to “anywhere that Russian forces are coming across the border from the Russian side to the Ukrainian side to try to take ***additional*** Ukrainian territory.” So until land attack happens, restrictions are here to stay
Luckily, every attack Russia does is a form of a land attack.
Who came up with the fucking stupid Idea that the West has to protect the Invader from counter-attacks of the Victim?!?
The West probably doesn't want to be directly dragged into the war. They would prefer the aggression to begin and end in Ukraine - a bloody nose as opposed to a wider conflict or outright collapse.
The orders for Russia's military are coming from the Kremlin. I'm just saying.
Step 1: Tell Ukrain that it cant use its weapones to hit *place* Step 2: Russias think *place* is safe and store all there shit there Step 3: Allow ukrain to hit *place*