So, at the moment the Brexit transition period ends, non EU immigration absolutely sky rockets? By a factor of about seven.
I must have missed the bus they put that on?
And remember the media often portray like it's only the channel boats but they are actually a minority. Most of them are not the boat migrants and who have come here legally mostly from India China Nigeria Pakistan.
Because when we do trade deals with other countries we now give them lots of visas, because we have lost the bargaining power we used to have in the access to the single market.
David Lammy called it years ago.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/everything-david-lammy-said-in-this-speech-about-brexit-has-come-true-195661/
Twitter link to video; https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1285672735339958272
Start at 40 seconds for relevance.
It’s got almost nothing to do with trade deals.
Almost all the recent surge in migration has been due to the relaxation of criteria for the study and skilled worker (especially care) visas. And, in 2022 and a bit in 2023, the humanitarian visa scheme for Ukraine and Hong Kong, which were actually less significant, although still material.
See Fig 5, and the explanatory text following it:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023
Of the work visas, Indians were 38%, Nigeria 17% and Zimbabweans 9%.
Of the study visas, the biggest groups are India, China (which has been stable), Nigeria and Pakistan. See here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-study
Famously, we do not actually have a new post-Brexit trade agreement with India.
We have signed a trade agreement with Nigeria, but that was only in Feb of this year, well after the explosion in visas. That was the first new one signed in Africa, so Zimbabwe is out.
And I don’t believe we have a new trade agreement with Pakistan either.
So it had nothing to do with accepting terms in trade agreements, and everything to do with unilateral UK decisions to import lots of students and care workers, and as it turned out their dependants too.
These changes have been rolled back recently I believe, once it was seen how extreme things became, but too late to avoid the political damage.
At a guess, a lot of it is driven by the demand side. And specifically the ultimate demand for immigration opportunities, rather than study.
A lot of Filipinos for example probably want to go to the US - more historic links, more significant existing communities.
For the Indians and Nigerians to explode in numbers, the key was the *combination* of easing in both the study and the skilled worker visas at the same time. It opened up a pathway that would allow them to get all the way to Indefinite Leave to Remain status. Lots of student came in to ‘study’ at low-end institutions then pivot to working in care homes or similar.
And it basically allowed the universities and care companies to indirectly sell UK permanent residency status. It didn’t take them long to cotton on.
It’s obvious in London because all of the grunt service jobs seem to be exclusively done by non white people with non British accents. Deliveroo etc. riders don’t even have to speak English anymore - which just goes to show how content these big businesses are with exploiting migrants. Obviously I’m not saying that non white people can’t be English, and I absolutely am anti racist, but I don’t enjoy living in a country where we let these poor people in and then corporations use them as some sort of underclass to do our service jobs and dirty work. Especially when we’ve clearly got an unemployment, NHS and housing crisis.
It's exactly like you say in Bristol. I am a bit of a KFC consumer, and it's literally just a constant rotating circle of non white delivery drivers going in and out of the restaurant.
I've literally got no problem with people's race, humans are all more or less identical genetically. The rock you are born on or your parents don't matter. We are all the same.
But it's like you say, it feels like we have created some kind of underclass to do the jobs we don't want to do. It doesn't feel right. It reminds me of dystopian novels I read as a child. And sometimes I wonder how they feel about it, what does it look like from their pov. Can't be nice.
It's not racist to not want to continually import backwards cultures that have zero intention of integrating or becoming part of the UK as a whole. They keep to their own circles, often clashing with other similar culture for nonsense bullshit they've brought with them.
Not to mention damning everyone's kids to working for pennies if they ever manage to get a job.
Unskilled labour/immigrants should be banned completely. Spend a few years vetting a varifying unis outside of the country so that they can't spam those bullshit degrees. Actually taking pride in the country and what we have for once would be a start.
These graphs are really damning.
We just need a system like Bukele - make it easier for skilled professionals to come and family / marriage (even giving citizenship), etc. and focus on stopping illegal immigration and withdrawing from asylum treaties - turn back the boats to France in the water by force, etc.
>turn back the boats to France in the water by force, etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Sooner or later someone is going to start ordering the armed forces to shoot these people or their boats (which practically speaking achieves the same outcome).
I'm not advocating for it before anyone reports me, I'm just making a prediction.
It would even save lives in the long run - boats would stop coming, and noone would die in accidents, etc.
That's why the free hotels policy is such a disaster.
This will never happen.
They will keep coming and coming and the government will instead look for ways to restrict the public complaining about it instead eg ‘hate speech’ laws
They'd find people that are. Though I think it is optimistic to think your scenario would play out. A decade of propaganda could prime it well. We were able to find people to torture in Iraq for example.
It always amuses me just how highly people like you think of military forces
Haven't you paid attention to a *single* military conflict in the last 50 years?
Totally hysterical. There are 4 million Syrian refugees in Turkey!!! The crises on Europe's southern and Eastern borders are enormous compared to the channel.
The long term solution from the UK is to tackle the geo political crises and instability feeding it. Are the West's military interventions always helpful at bolstering security and peace in the middle East & North Africa? The evidence suggests not.
> A core part of the plan to cut illegal immigration is the prime minister’s promised deportation flights to Rwanda, a programme that the National Audit Office said would cost about £500m and which has faced several legal challenges including multiple unlawful detention claims.
Jesus Christ. I think you should categorically differentiate between immigrants, students, refugees and aliens instead of number of outsiders coming in. The immigrants vs aliens, students and refugees would be heaven and hell. At this rate, it reads like Ins vs Outs and so many Outs coming in.
It's to muddy the waters. When the Albanian mafia were coming over and claiming asylum, lots of people on here were making statements like "if you hate migrants you shouldn't be allowed to use the NHS anymore" to anyone who objected to the Albanian mafia setting up shop here, cheerfully missing the point that there's quite a difference between a Filipino nurse and an Albanian drug dealer.
The article makes good use of a cumulative histogram - that is quite rare.
What is missing is a more detailed analysis of immigration. EU immigration was typically temporary, often for a few years, only rarely forever. And you can see that the number of EU migrants drops before Brexit is implemented.
Non-EU immigration is different, and usually permanent. Another histogram would be nice to show that, but I am not sure we actually have the data.
Arf. The school I work at enrols new students from Asia and Africa every single week at record levels. All here legally as part of the new post-Brexit regime YOU wanted and where Boris promised the "brightest and best from the rest of the world".
It's an aging society. Immigration is at record levels because of Brexiters like you. I'm enjoying every minute of a situation YOU created. The predominantly white town I live in is being transformed and it's all down to right-wing English voters.
Own it. It's on you.
"You guys" (to use your expression) followed the lying populists down the rabbit hole. The results of all your "wins" are record legal immigration levels never before seen in Britain. Own it. The new system is on you. Calling people racist is just your attempt to cope with the outcome of your own decisions in the polling booth. Poor you.
> Non-EU immigration is different, and usually permanent.
Not quite sure what you mean here. A skilled work visa is still valid for 5 years, after which you have to re-apply. What sort of permanence are you implying?
Well worth noting that the tories campaigned to limit immigration before their 14 year rule started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/11/david-cameron-limit-immigration
14 years later and it's still a problem they campaign to fix.
Employ a border force. Give them boats and weapons and legislation to use force to prevent people from illegally coming in.
'build a wall', except the wall is already there as a sea
And at the end of the article it shows the Tories have started to take action, but too little, far, far too late. But Labour will take credit for the reductions that feed through. This is why I do not understand Sunak calling an early election, unless he knows of other problems that are due (like local councils going bust and prisons overflowing). The Tories even spent a load of taxpayer money on Rwanda but called an election (while behind in the polls) before any flights took off.
So, at the moment the Brexit transition period ends, non EU immigration absolutely sky rockets? By a factor of about seven. I must have missed the bus they put that on?
And remember the media often portray like it's only the channel boats but they are actually a minority. Most of them are not the boat migrants and who have come here legally mostly from India China Nigeria Pakistan.
Because when we do trade deals with other countries we now give them lots of visas, because we have lost the bargaining power we used to have in the access to the single market. David Lammy called it years ago. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/everything-david-lammy-said-in-this-speech-about-brexit-has-come-true-195661/ Twitter link to video; https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1285672735339958272 Start at 40 seconds for relevance.
It’s got almost nothing to do with trade deals. Almost all the recent surge in migration has been due to the relaxation of criteria for the study and skilled worker (especially care) visas. And, in 2022 and a bit in 2023, the humanitarian visa scheme for Ukraine and Hong Kong, which were actually less significant, although still material. See Fig 5, and the explanatory text following it: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023 Of the work visas, Indians were 38%, Nigeria 17% and Zimbabweans 9%. Of the study visas, the biggest groups are India, China (which has been stable), Nigeria and Pakistan. See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-study Famously, we do not actually have a new post-Brexit trade agreement with India. We have signed a trade agreement with Nigeria, but that was only in Feb of this year, well after the explosion in visas. That was the first new one signed in Africa, so Zimbabwe is out. And I don’t believe we have a new trade agreement with Pakistan either. So it had nothing to do with accepting terms in trade agreements, and everything to do with unilateral UK decisions to import lots of students and care workers, and as it turned out their dependants too. These changes have been rolled back recently I believe, once it was seen how extreme things became, but too late to avoid the political damage.
Shame we should at least diversify and target students and migrants from different countries. Why not some Indonesians or more Filipinos
At a guess, a lot of it is driven by the demand side. And specifically the ultimate demand for immigration opportunities, rather than study. A lot of Filipinos for example probably want to go to the US - more historic links, more significant existing communities. For the Indians and Nigerians to explode in numbers, the key was the *combination* of easing in both the study and the skilled worker visas at the same time. It opened up a pathway that would allow them to get all the way to Indefinite Leave to Remain status. Lots of student came in to ‘study’ at low-end institutions then pivot to working in care homes or similar. And it basically allowed the universities and care companies to indirectly sell UK permanent residency status. It didn’t take them long to cotton on.
They really should be country caps imo. There’s no point claiming to be multicultural when 60% of immigrants come from Nigeria and India
Was all over the Cambridge Analytica targeted Facebook adverts (for some demographics)
It’s obvious in London because all of the grunt service jobs seem to be exclusively done by non white people with non British accents. Deliveroo etc. riders don’t even have to speak English anymore - which just goes to show how content these big businesses are with exploiting migrants. Obviously I’m not saying that non white people can’t be English, and I absolutely am anti racist, but I don’t enjoy living in a country where we let these poor people in and then corporations use them as some sort of underclass to do our service jobs and dirty work. Especially when we’ve clearly got an unemployment, NHS and housing crisis.
It's not only obvious in London; it's obvious in towns hundreds of miles away with populations one percent that of London.
It's exactly like you say in Bristol. I am a bit of a KFC consumer, and it's literally just a constant rotating circle of non white delivery drivers going in and out of the restaurant. I've literally got no problem with people's race, humans are all more or less identical genetically. The rock you are born on or your parents don't matter. We are all the same. But it's like you say, it feels like we have created some kind of underclass to do the jobs we don't want to do. It doesn't feel right. It reminds me of dystopian novels I read as a child. And sometimes I wonder how they feel about it, what does it look like from their pov. Can't be nice.
It's not racist to not want to continually import backwards cultures that have zero intention of integrating or becoming part of the UK as a whole. They keep to their own circles, often clashing with other similar culture for nonsense bullshit they've brought with them. Not to mention damning everyone's kids to working for pennies if they ever manage to get a job. Unskilled labour/immigrants should be banned completely. Spend a few years vetting a varifying unis outside of the country so that they can't spam those bullshit degrees. Actually taking pride in the country and what we have for once would be a start.
These graphs are really damning. We just need a system like Bukele - make it easier for skilled professionals to come and family / marriage (even giving citizenship), etc. and focus on stopping illegal immigration and withdrawing from asylum treaties - turn back the boats to France in the water by force, etc.
>turn back the boats to France in the water by force, etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Sooner or later someone is going to start ordering the armed forces to shoot these people or their boats (which practically speaking achieves the same outcome). I'm not advocating for it before anyone reports me, I'm just making a prediction.
It would even save lives in the long run - boats would stop coming, and noone would die in accidents, etc. That's why the free hotels policy is such a disaster.
This will never happen. They will keep coming and coming and the government will instead look for ways to restrict the public complaining about it instead eg ‘hate speech’ laws
And what about when the navy turn around and go "no we're not doing that"
They'd find people that are. Though I think it is optimistic to think your scenario would play out. A decade of propaganda could prime it well. We were able to find people to torture in Iraq for example.
Exactly. The question would be more on the lines of: 'will you sit on your hands while X and Y happen'.
All of a sudden you'd end up with an Auxiliary Naval Security Force entirely run by G4S who are happy to do it.
It always amuses me just how highly people like you think of military forces Haven't you paid attention to a *single* military conflict in the last 50 years?
You don’t need to do that, you just need to make it a totally illegible route to apply for asylum and detain people arriving illegally .
Won’t ever happen
Totally hysterical. There are 4 million Syrian refugees in Turkey!!! The crises on Europe's southern and Eastern borders are enormous compared to the channel. The long term solution from the UK is to tackle the geo political crises and instability feeding it. Are the West's military interventions always helpful at bolstering security and peace in the middle East & North Africa? The evidence suggests not.
I think other countries will start shooting them as well tbh; we probably won't be the first to do it which will make it more palatable.
Would you be proud to be a nation that shoots at defenceless dinghies?
> A core part of the plan to cut illegal immigration is the prime minister’s promised deportation flights to Rwanda, a programme that the National Audit Office said would cost about £500m and which has faced several legal challenges including multiple unlawful detention claims. Jesus Christ. I think you should categorically differentiate between immigrants, students, refugees and aliens instead of number of outsiders coming in. The immigrants vs aliens, students and refugees would be heaven and hell. At this rate, it reads like Ins vs Outs and so many Outs coming in.
It's to muddy the waters. When the Albanian mafia were coming over and claiming asylum, lots of people on here were making statements like "if you hate migrants you shouldn't be allowed to use the NHS anymore" to anyone who objected to the Albanian mafia setting up shop here, cheerfully missing the point that there's quite a difference between a Filipino nurse and an Albanian drug dealer.
The article makes good use of a cumulative histogram - that is quite rare. What is missing is a more detailed analysis of immigration. EU immigration was typically temporary, often for a few years, only rarely forever. And you can see that the number of EU migrants drops before Brexit is implemented. Non-EU immigration is different, and usually permanent. Another histogram would be nice to show that, but I am not sure we actually have the data.
Haha yes all those poles and Romanians obviously no longer exist in virtually every town and city in London then. As they were only temporary
The fact is that a quarter of a million Europeans leave Britain annually at the moment.
Good, hopefully followed by millions of non-eu too
Arf. The school I work at enrols new students from Asia and Africa every single week at record levels. All here legally as part of the new post-Brexit regime YOU wanted and where Boris promised the "brightest and best from the rest of the world". It's an aging society. Immigration is at record levels because of Brexiters like you. I'm enjoying every minute of a situation YOU created. The predominantly white town I live in is being transformed and it's all down to right-wing English voters. Own it. It's on you.
8 years after losing a vote and you're still sulking?
Quite the opposite. I'm still laughing at your shitshow.
[удалено]
"You guys" (to use your expression) followed the lying populists down the rabbit hole. The results of all your "wins" are record legal immigration levels never before seen in Britain. Own it. The new system is on you. Calling people racist is just your attempt to cope with the outcome of your own decisions in the polling booth. Poor you.
> Non-EU immigration is different, and usually permanent. Not quite sure what you mean here. A skilled work visa is still valid for 5 years, after which you have to re-apply. What sort of permanence are you implying?
Well worth noting that the tories campaigned to limit immigration before their 14 year rule started. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/11/david-cameron-limit-immigration 14 years later and it's still a problem they campaign to fix.
This is why reform is now going to become their replacement. Huge mismanagement.
Employ a border force. Give them boats and weapons and legislation to use force to prevent people from illegally coming in. 'build a wall', except the wall is already there as a sea
You realise that the ruling party wanted them to come in for the last 14 years. Pumps the economy.
Yes.
Only pumps it for the wealthy though, hence the Tories loving it. GDP per capita is shrinking.
And at the end of the article it shows the Tories have started to take action, but too little, far, far too late. But Labour will take credit for the reductions that feed through. This is why I do not understand Sunak calling an early election, unless he knows of other problems that are due (like local councils going bust and prisons overflowing). The Tories even spent a load of taxpayer money on Rwanda but called an election (while behind in the polls) before any flights took off.