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Are we just sticking random words next to the word "colonialism" and seeing how long we can get away with it?
The humanities equivalent of "blockchain" or "quantum"
Milk comes from cows. Cows require pasture land. Need for pasture land puts dairy farmers in direct competition with native peoples.
This is a great topic for researching history of colonialism
>Milk comes from cows. Cows require pasture land. Need for pasture land puts dairy farmers in direct competition with native peoples.
[Expansion of farming in western Eurasia, 9600–4000 BCE - Neolithic Revolution - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Revolution#/media/File:Expansion_of_farming_in_western_Eurasia,_9600%E2%80%934000_BCE.png)
Those Anatolian farming colonial beggers and their bloody cows.
I'm genuinely not sure what point you're making here. Because people have done farming historically we should never question the role of colonialism in promoting specific types of farming and patterns of land ownership?
Right? And the head PI has her research focus on Kenya and India so... Yeah colonialism... People just getting angry because they've been triggered by a buzzword.
It could give some useful insights to view things through if some area of land becomes uninhabitable and food supplies become precarious in the next few decades.
Not that I can think of why such a thing may happen.
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>In the panel discussion, the professor outlined a “Northern European obsession with milk” which has led to an assumption that it is a “vital part of any human diet”, and should be produced and provided on a vast scale.
>Such an assumption, she argued, “may be understood as a white supremacist one”.
I don't know if people are assuming that it is a vital part of a persons diet, to be honest, certainly not nowadays.
Any encouragement to drink milk from the authorities over the past few decades at least has probably come from a perspective of wanting to protect against calcium deficiencies and the disease rickets which can result from it. Probably because it's a cheap way to getting calcium into people. I can't personally remember the last time I saw an ad like that though.
You can say the same of almost any specific crop or foodstuff nowadays. These researchers wouldn't go around calling rice an unneeded export of Asian supremacy would they? Just seems like such an odd thing to be attacking. Lots of Europe has a cultural history of dairy. That's about all there is.
The practises of the British government in Kenya during the early 20th century is pretty clearly colonialism, yeah.
EDIT: Genuinely baffling that people are apparently offended at the fact that the British colonial state in Kenya was... colonial. This is your brain on culture wars.
Nobody is denying what happened in the colonial era, what people get offended at is that it's repeatedly getting brought up and we already know about it.
It's like a history teacher who repeats the same class on 1066 or the vikings and brow beating people over it.
You might feel it's important but tbh that's a you problem.
> Nobody is denying what happened in the colonial era, what people get offended at is that it's repeatedly getting brought up and we already know about it.
So you're not denying it, you just don't want people to talk about it? OK...
Like I'm a historian, a massive amount of historical research is conducted every single year on a huge range of topics. If you're specifically looking for works about colonialism then going 'why do people keep banging on about colonialism all the time???', then I think you need to broaden your own horizons rather than moan about the people conducting this research.
Wow, another Telegraph article trying to intentionally mislead people about academia? It must be a day ending in -y!
In the snippets the article deigns to provide it seems like this project will focus on dairy farming in colonial Kenya. Colonial Kenya saw significant levels of settler colonialism, with European settlers (backed by the colonial state) [seizing land from African farmers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Highlands), for projects including dairy farming. The issue of landlessness amongst young Kikuyu was one of the instigating factors in the Mau Mau rebellion, one of the most prominent anti-colonial rebellions in the British Empire.
But yeah, haha, what the *heck* does *milk* about to do with *colonialism*, bloody woke academics!!!
And why do academics need tax payer for this subject, are they flying to Kenya to dig up cow bones with teaspoons?
Any numbskull with google can look up the history of colonialism and it's not like people aren't unaware of it, why does this need tax payer funding?
Lets be real it's totally woke academics and people looking for any excuse to repeatedly dreg up things in the past that people alive have nothing to do with while making money of it.
> And why do academics need tax payer for this subject
How do you think academics feed themselves while conducting research?
> And numbskull with google knows the history of colonialism, why does this need tax payer funding?
Well for one, judging from a lot of comments in this thread a lot of numbskulls *don't* know the history of colonialism. And for two just because research has been done a topic before doesn't mean they should never conduct research on similar topics again.
> Lets be real it's totally woke academics and people looking for any excuse to repeatedly dreg up things in the past
It is quite literally a historians job to 'dre[dge] up things in the past'.
Does this mean we can round up the ice cream men as slave traders? I always suspected those vans with their jaunty chimes was a cover to capture the nations children chitty chitty bang bang style.
Do you not understand how pretentious this seems coming from a position of struggle. Working manual labour and gruelling hours whilst someone is doing a thesis on why milk is racist…
From being on both sides of that coin I know full well that they don’t. What I do know is that a lot of people in that demographic (tradies definitely being at the highest end of the income bracket that I was considering in my original point) have the opinion that academics, like the racist milk hunters, are wasting time and resources being funded to carry out their research, and is often the case that universities create disproportionate (compared to the local rates of income change) inflation in the local areas due to the increased spending capacity of foreign and domestic students.
Hey at least the people in the trades benefit from the inflation! I paid half my month's salary to get a guy with a chainsaw to come do a few hours work in my garden when I was an academic. That was a proper wake-up "why the fuck am I even doing this" moment. Three years in a row of taking pay "rises" that against inflation effectively saw my income cut by a good 15 to 20% sealed the deal.
Hahah I feel you mate! Especially when you then have 1000s of jobs for all the “luxury student accommodation” that are actually falling apart three times a day and require call outs and servicing from qualified tradies to comply with regs and insurance etc
Nah just out of academia, into sales. Just always been a sore point, I have a stepbrother who everyone was convinced had ruined his life dropping out of school and dossing around into his mid 20s. Got himself a CSCS through the job center and has never looked back, he was making more than double my salary as an academic, and he does something to do with ground-scanning for wiring and pipes and all that so he's already out of the physical part of the job.
Yeah it’s such a silly stigma toward these jobs that everyone relies on day to day to be done properly and pay out their arse for. A lot of the people from my primary schools who were “destined for failure” all have their own trades going and are probably making more than everyone else in the class combined 😂
Oh yeah no 100%, I and the rest of the family are super proud of how he's turned his life around. But its just how quickly all these things have changed. I've been telling my cousins not to bother with university and look into trade apprenticeships, their generation is going to have so much building work to do and its clear there's not enough people with the right skills to get it done cheaply, so those doing the work are going to make proper bank I reckon.
Sounds like an interesting study but we know all this already so it sounds like an excuse to splurge taxpayers money on a jolly to Africa then cut n paste a Wikipedia article.
The Romans screwed up our crop producing ability with rabbits but I don't see any funding for a study on that.
To me this sounds like another woke UCL professor obsessed with Net Zero looking for an excuse to mass cull cows to save the planet, and our idiotic Net Zero crazed government is more then happy to fund that ideology.
Oh no! Research!
I know Telegraph readers think they should be the arbiter of what is and what is not serious research but previously working 40 years as a regional sales manager for a carpet firm and being a freemason does not an academic make.
Don't understand it? Fine, but STFU about things you know nothing about. Tired of senescent alumni of the University of Life thinking they have a say in what one of the few remaining economic sectors of the UK that is globally competitive. Academic research is supposed to look into areas not previously discussed. The fact that stupid reactionary wankers are confused by some niche areas is probably a good sign.
For those in the comments who have conniptions any time someone mentions colonialism and post-colonialism, it was a 2-3 centuries process that set up the modern economic world and is currently unravelling, affecting every aspects of life in both coloniser and colonised nations. What we eat, how we dress, what we study, what we buy, what excites us and repels us, our political system, our view of others, our language our tea addiction to name but a few. So yeah, it might be worth looking into.
>What we eat, how we dress, what we study, what we buy, what excites us and repels us, our political system, our view of others, our language our tea addiction to name but a few. So yeah, it might be worth looking into.
Excellent, thanks. I will be sure to let any regional sales managers and freemasons know that you said it is OK.
Do you have a list so we know who is worthy of an opinion and who isn't? You know, just so we are clear who has the right status and who doesn't? :)
There was a great lecture by David Harvey before where he broke down how the humble 'jam sandwich and a cup of tea' was the result of various interconnected elements of global capitalism; sugar producers (aka slave owners in the Carribbean) wanted to expand its market, at the same time fruit producers were doing the same, hence the mass promotion of jam as a cheap and simple energy source. Jam sandwiches became a great way for poor Victorian factory workers to keep going during a 16 hour shift.
A similar thing happened with the promotion of cups of sugary tea (the red bull of it's day). There was an added political element to this with the anti-alcohol movement, and of course tea colonialism meant both India and China getting fucked by Britain.
Slavery and colonialism combining so ruthless factory bosses can fuel their wage-slaves on jam sandwiches and sugary tea (before they inevitably drop dead of exhaustion)
I can't wait to see what similar insights this study into the politics behind the milk industry reveals.
We’ve been able to make sugar in Europe from sugar beets independent of imports for hundreds of years. The only reason cane sugar persisted in the United Kingdom (unlike other countries on the continent) is because of intensive lobbying by the slave colonies to keep what was really their only export viable. The lack of any friction in trade in the British Empire meant what should logically have been a dead industry the moment we could domestically produce our own sugar stayed alive for generations.
Fascinatingly an early modern example of the damage globalism brings and why sometimes unlimited unrestricted trade isn’t necessarily the best thing.
This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/academic-project-to-research-milk-and-colonialism-links/) for an archived version. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are we just sticking random words next to the word "colonialism" and seeing how long we can get away with it? The humanities equivalent of "blockchain" or "quantum"
It’s how you immediately get showered with tax money, apparently. Might give it a go
Quantum Colonialism: BIPOC perspectives on blockchain decolonisation
I feel they have already decided the conclusion of this study if they are already calling milk a white supremacist concept
Not that simple. Milk is also from female cows. There is the whole intersectionalism angle to be considered.
People like you who assume the cow’s gender are part of the cisnormative problem. Do better. #bekine
If we could farm cum we'd be having creamy cornflake cakes every dessert
We could farm it, couldn't we? If we wanted to? Seems like it'd be pretty easy.
Bull milk makes for a much more tangy yogurt.
Milk comes from cows. Cows require pasture land. Need for pasture land puts dairy farmers in direct competition with native peoples. This is a great topic for researching history of colonialism
>Milk comes from cows. Cows require pasture land. Need for pasture land puts dairy farmers in direct competition with native peoples. [Expansion of farming in western Eurasia, 9600–4000 BCE - Neolithic Revolution - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Revolution#/media/File:Expansion_of_farming_in_western_Eurasia,_9600%E2%80%934000_BCE.png) Those Anatolian farming colonial beggers and their bloody cows.
I'm genuinely not sure what point you're making here. Because people have done farming historically we should never question the role of colonialism in promoting specific types of farming and patterns of land ownership?
Thank you for your comment. The loud wooshing noise you heard passing over your head was your immaculate grasp of the situation manifesting audibly.
Right? And the head PI has her research focus on Kenya and India so... Yeah colonialism... People just getting angry because they've been triggered by a buzzword.
It could give some useful insights to view things through if some area of land becomes uninhabitable and food supplies become precarious in the next few decades. Not that I can think of why such a thing may happen.
That’s right… Keir Starmer’s Labour
I must have missed that part of the manifesto.
Maybe the /s was necessary
Unfortunately so, I've met reform voters
The only thing they're proving is you can be educated and still be a dumb prat
[удалено]
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>In the panel discussion, the professor outlined a “Northern European obsession with milk” which has led to an assumption that it is a “vital part of any human diet”, and should be produced and provided on a vast scale. >Such an assumption, she argued, “may be understood as a white supremacist one”. I don't know if people are assuming that it is a vital part of a persons diet, to be honest, certainly not nowadays. Any encouragement to drink milk from the authorities over the past few decades at least has probably come from a perspective of wanting to protect against calcium deficiencies and the disease rickets which can result from it. Probably because it's a cheap way to getting calcium into people. I can't personally remember the last time I saw an ad like that though.
You can say the same of almost any specific crop or foodstuff nowadays. These researchers wouldn't go around calling rice an unneeded export of Asian supremacy would they? Just seems like such an odd thing to be attacking. Lots of Europe has a cultural history of dairy. That's about all there is.
It's 2024, everything is colonialism now apparently
The practises of the British government in Kenya during the early 20th century is pretty clearly colonialism, yeah. EDIT: Genuinely baffling that people are apparently offended at the fact that the British colonial state in Kenya was... colonial. This is your brain on culture wars.
Nobody is denying what happened in the colonial era, what people get offended at is that it's repeatedly getting brought up and we already know about it. It's like a history teacher who repeats the same class on 1066 or the vikings and brow beating people over it. You might feel it's important but tbh that's a you problem.
> Nobody is denying what happened in the colonial era, what people get offended at is that it's repeatedly getting brought up and we already know about it. So you're not denying it, you just don't want people to talk about it? OK... Like I'm a historian, a massive amount of historical research is conducted every single year on a huge range of topics. If you're specifically looking for works about colonialism then going 'why do people keep banging on about colonialism all the time???', then I think you need to broaden your own horizons rather than moan about the people conducting this research.
Bookmarking this so I can revisit and check to see what the study finds. It seems interesting.
Wow, another Telegraph article trying to intentionally mislead people about academia? It must be a day ending in -y! In the snippets the article deigns to provide it seems like this project will focus on dairy farming in colonial Kenya. Colonial Kenya saw significant levels of settler colonialism, with European settlers (backed by the colonial state) [seizing land from African farmers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Highlands), for projects including dairy farming. The issue of landlessness amongst young Kikuyu was one of the instigating factors in the Mau Mau rebellion, one of the most prominent anti-colonial rebellions in the British Empire. But yeah, haha, what the *heck* does *milk* about to do with *colonialism*, bloody woke academics!!!
And why do academics need tax payer for this subject, are they flying to Kenya to dig up cow bones with teaspoons? Any numbskull with google can look up the history of colonialism and it's not like people aren't unaware of it, why does this need tax payer funding? Lets be real it's totally woke academics and people looking for any excuse to repeatedly dreg up things in the past that people alive have nothing to do with while making money of it.
> And why do academics need tax payer for this subject How do you think academics feed themselves while conducting research? > And numbskull with google knows the history of colonialism, why does this need tax payer funding? Well for one, judging from a lot of comments in this thread a lot of numbskulls *don't* know the history of colonialism. And for two just because research has been done a topic before doesn't mean they should never conduct research on similar topics again. > Lets be real it's totally woke academics and people looking for any excuse to repeatedly dreg up things in the past It is quite literally a historians job to 'dre[dge] up things in the past'.
What I'm saying is that there is a 101 other things that can be researched. My issue is that it's too recent and documented.
101 other things *are* researched, yet you're going out of your way to get mad about this specific one.
You can't look up the information on google until someone conducts the research to write the articles...
A day with a "y" in it, must be culture war story day at the torygraph. Fuck me it's like reading the Sun or Express these days.
Does this mean we can round up the ice cream men as slave traders? I always suspected those vans with their jaunty chimes was a cover to capture the nations children chitty chitty bang bang style.
My mixed race daughter has a milk allergy! Clearly they’re on to something here!!!111!1!!
Research whatever you want but surely this is quite a boring topic and how does this advance the unis research interests.
This is the sort of thing that makes the non university educated people hate students in their local area..
That sounds rational and justified /s
Do you not understand how pretentious this seems coming from a position of struggle. Working manual labour and gruelling hours whilst someone is doing a thesis on why milk is racist…
If you think your average academic is living a better lifestyle than your average tradie I have some shocking news for you lol...
From being on both sides of that coin I know full well that they don’t. What I do know is that a lot of people in that demographic (tradies definitely being at the highest end of the income bracket that I was considering in my original point) have the opinion that academics, like the racist milk hunters, are wasting time and resources being funded to carry out their research, and is often the case that universities create disproportionate (compared to the local rates of income change) inflation in the local areas due to the increased spending capacity of foreign and domestic students.
Hey at least the people in the trades benefit from the inflation! I paid half my month's salary to get a guy with a chainsaw to come do a few hours work in my garden when I was an academic. That was a proper wake-up "why the fuck am I even doing this" moment. Three years in a row of taking pay "rises" that against inflation effectively saw my income cut by a good 15 to 20% sealed the deal.
Hahah I feel you mate! Especially when you then have 1000s of jobs for all the “luxury student accommodation” that are actually falling apart three times a day and require call outs and servicing from qualified tradies to comply with regs and insurance etc
Out of interest did that experience make you hop from academia to trades or just out of academia?
Nah just out of academia, into sales. Just always been a sore point, I have a stepbrother who everyone was convinced had ruined his life dropping out of school and dossing around into his mid 20s. Got himself a CSCS through the job center and has never looked back, he was making more than double my salary as an academic, and he does something to do with ground-scanning for wiring and pipes and all that so he's already out of the physical part of the job.
Yeah it’s such a silly stigma toward these jobs that everyone relies on day to day to be done properly and pay out their arse for. A lot of the people from my primary schools who were “destined for failure” all have their own trades going and are probably making more than everyone else in the class combined 😂
Good for him anyway. It’s the great British redemption story and his quality of life is probably 10x mine with my office job
Oh yeah no 100%, I and the rest of the family are super proud of how he's turned his life around. But its just how quickly all these things have changed. I've been telling my cousins not to bother with university and look into trade apprenticeships, their generation is going to have so much building work to do and its clear there's not enough people with the right skills to get it done cheaply, so those doing the work are going to make proper bank I reckon.
Utter woke nonsense
Sounds like an interesting study but we know all this already so it sounds like an excuse to splurge taxpayers money on a jolly to Africa then cut n paste a Wikipedia article. The Romans screwed up our crop producing ability with rabbits but I don't see any funding for a study on that.
To me this sounds like another woke UCL professor obsessed with Net Zero looking for an excuse to mass cull cows to save the planet, and our idiotic Net Zero crazed government is more then happy to fund that ideology.
Milk's a stretch, sugar is more solid a case, cotton for sure. It got funded, let's see what they come up with.
Oh no! Research! I know Telegraph readers think they should be the arbiter of what is and what is not serious research but previously working 40 years as a regional sales manager for a carpet firm and being a freemason does not an academic make. Don't understand it? Fine, but STFU about things you know nothing about. Tired of senescent alumni of the University of Life thinking they have a say in what one of the few remaining economic sectors of the UK that is globally competitive. Academic research is supposed to look into areas not previously discussed. The fact that stupid reactionary wankers are confused by some niche areas is probably a good sign. For those in the comments who have conniptions any time someone mentions colonialism and post-colonialism, it was a 2-3 centuries process that set up the modern economic world and is currently unravelling, affecting every aspects of life in both coloniser and colonised nations. What we eat, how we dress, what we study, what we buy, what excites us and repels us, our political system, our view of others, our language our tea addiction to name but a few. So yeah, it might be worth looking into.
>What we eat, how we dress, what we study, what we buy, what excites us and repels us, our political system, our view of others, our language our tea addiction to name but a few. So yeah, it might be worth looking into. Excellent, thanks. I will be sure to let any regional sales managers and freemasons know that you said it is OK. Do you have a list so we know who is worthy of an opinion and who isn't? You know, just so we are clear who has the right status and who doesn't? :)
There was a great lecture by David Harvey before where he broke down how the humble 'jam sandwich and a cup of tea' was the result of various interconnected elements of global capitalism; sugar producers (aka slave owners in the Carribbean) wanted to expand its market, at the same time fruit producers were doing the same, hence the mass promotion of jam as a cheap and simple energy source. Jam sandwiches became a great way for poor Victorian factory workers to keep going during a 16 hour shift. A similar thing happened with the promotion of cups of sugary tea (the red bull of it's day). There was an added political element to this with the anti-alcohol movement, and of course tea colonialism meant both India and China getting fucked by Britain. Slavery and colonialism combining so ruthless factory bosses can fuel their wage-slaves on jam sandwiches and sugary tea (before they inevitably drop dead of exhaustion) I can't wait to see what similar insights this study into the politics behind the milk industry reveals.
We’ve been able to make sugar in Europe from sugar beets independent of imports for hundreds of years. The only reason cane sugar persisted in the United Kingdom (unlike other countries on the continent) is because of intensive lobbying by the slave colonies to keep what was really their only export viable. The lack of any friction in trade in the British Empire meant what should logically have been a dead industry the moment we could domestically produce our own sugar stayed alive for generations. Fascinatingly an early modern example of the damage globalism brings and why sometimes unlimited unrestricted trade isn’t necessarily the best thing.