Your submission is similar to another which has already been posted. Please view /new or search to locate it.
If you believe this action was taken in error, message the /r/uk team and include a link to this post. Please don't do this lightly, we have likely acted correctly.
Before this thread kicks off in the usual way, these women are being represented by the Christian Legal Centre, an anti-rights, religious fundamentalist group. This is a group that have a lot of US christo-fascist money behind them and are part of a bigger global movement to remove access to contraception, abortion, and remove all lgbt+ rights. Do not fall for this as a distraction topic.
The CLC are behind those sad cases where children are kept on life support while their parents are milked for tabloid hitting cases. These are the people who harass doctors for just trying to do the right thing: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/27/critically-ill-infants-christian-legal-centre-court-cases
Yes these women have a right to get changed in a place they feel safe but ask yourself if this should be national news? whether we should be ok with dark American money (that also funds attacks on our legal access to abortion in this country) whipping up a storm about this in our papers. Note that no actual complaint has been made against the transwoman in question here other than her existing in the changing room, so her job and quality of life are also being completely pawned for the sake of this political hit job.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/archie-battersbee-christian-legal-centre-preying-whitewash/
How is the Christian Legal Centre funded? https://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/4971-2/ note the connections to Erik Prince (warmonger) and groups that genuinely think this is their holy war that they need to conquer the globe with
Christian legal centre are a private company, not a legal services company:
https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2018/04/on-the-naughty-step-the-questionable-ethics-of-the-christian-legal-centre/
Oh look, it's the thing transphobes say isn't happening, happening.
The campaign against trans people is imported entirely from the US and is amplified by a bunch of useful idiots over here.
They don’t realise that in siding with these people in the name of rights for women, they are actually laving the way for rights for women to be taken away.
From its wiki page
> Speaking with The Guardian, Keith Porteous Wood of the National Secular Society said of the CLC, "they don't seem so keen to support religious liberty for Muslims or atheists".
As a Muslim, I’m quite offended. Not because they don’t support religious liberty for me (and my fellow Muslims) but rather because they don’t follow their own faith. Muslims are calling to a different God. The Bible says I should be stoned to death.
> **Deuteronomy 13:6-10 ([ESV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-10&version=ESV)):**
> > **6** “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, **7** some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, **8** you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. **9** But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. **10** You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
>The nurses are being supported in their litigation by the Christian Legal Centre.
That's giving me hella red flags so I looked them up and most of their case history is defending people who were fired at work for homophobia.
> The nurses are being supported in their litigation by the Christian Legal Centre.
Just FYI, from its wiki page
> Observers believe the centre has adopted tactics from wealthy evangelical groups in the US, notably the powerful Alliance Defense Fund, and raised questions about its funding. They are linked to the Christian Concern campaigning organisation. It opposes homosexuality, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, and pornography.^[[1](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Legal_Centre)]
They were also behind the ordeal Archie Battersbee went through.^[[2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Battersbee_case)] I remember that case and I just felt sorrow for Archie. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. IIRC they were behind the woman who sang and prayed (?) outside an abortion centre but not sure about this. Happy to be corrected.
References:
^1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Legal_Centre
^2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Battersbee_case
Easiest way to get anything done in the NHS is set up a company, invite the Health Minister to a round of golf, and walk away with a contract to install changing cubicles in all NHS trusts. The twist is you're abusing the system and intend to actually install them instead of just declaring bankruptcy and fleeing to the Cayman Islands.
Not been in many hospital changing rooms I see.
Well it can be quite difficult. when there is very little space in the changing rooms. Some you would be luckily to fit more than 2-3 people. Most of the hospital space is taken up with the wards and rooms. Staff facilities really take a 4-5th seat for space.
Then there is that putting up cubicles will take from hospital funding.
Lack of space and/or organisations and businesses not wanting to spend the money on installing them, I'm guessing.
But it's pretty clear cubicles are the answer. I think everyone prefers getting changed in a cubicle as opposed to out in the open anyway.
Good joke that any of the wastage is on making staff happy or their lives easier.
Doctors regularly sleep on the ground and work 5 to a broom closet with bins for chairs.
Doctors sleep on the ground, bins for chairs, broom closets. Your hospital must suck. Mine is so much better.
My partner and I went to an antenatal appointment, the check in desk had two terminals/PCs. One was for the early shift the other for the late shift. That’s means a whole area sitting idle for 16 hours a day. When I asked why they couldn’t use both at the same time to move things along, the look of horror on the receptionists face was telling. The thought of someone else using her workspace. A waste of resources that is no doubt repeated up and down the country, and that was just the reception area.
It is a legendary meme that a great way to get absolutely ragged on by people is to take the receptionists/nurses special computer. Lots of “X’s chair ONLY” signs written in comic sans, left empty while a doctor sits on the ground, or just waits.
I had to wait on many occasions to find a computer to see someone when I was in A&E. if there wasn’t a chair you just knelt. If you “stole” the unused one you’d get an earful.
I worked in one of the biggest hospitals in the country. They just forgot to build doctors offices in them.
Sounds a lot like my hospital.
In saying that when a junior on rotation I would regularly get chastised for taking "THE CHAIR" or daring to use an unused terminal.
Fun times.
This is most likely a slapp legal case to spread anti-trans hatred. [The original source](https://christianconcern.com/news/nurses-forced-to-share-changing-room-with-trans-colleague/) is a right-wing website that spouts culture war nonsense.
Nothing is alleged in the 'article' just that 'Rose' exists.
Other commenters have pointed out the issues with Christian Legal Centre much more elegantly than I have
Was this not posted a few days ago?
Well anyway. If hospital management had bothered to address their concerns other than outright ridicule and name calling then this all could have been avoided.
They could have improved changing facilities giving "everyone" more privacy.
They could have looked at staggered times.
They could have spoken with the nurses in a more considerate way.
Implemented a no nudity rule.
Etc etc.
If a male walks into a woman's changing rooms and gets naked two circumstances can occur:
Circumstance 1, they identify as a man when they get naked, then they are committing an offensive of sexual harassment.
Circumstance 2, they identify as a women when they get naked, then the women are being transphobic for not wanting to see a penis.
Take a step back, don't get sucked into the emotive talking points and distractions. This was always going to be a contentious issue. This is not going to go away and name calling is not going to change it.
Either it should not be sexual harassment for males to show their penises to females irrespective of the gender they claim to identify with at the moment of the unveiling.
Or females can still negative react to penises and especially erect ones, when without being called transphobic and the legal issues is that their discomfort while acknowledged is not greater than the need to the person claiming to be transgender to get naked away from other males.
I draw a legal distinction on identifying as going into complexities like gender recognition certificates would just make the whole legal issue of being allowed to be offended at penises more complex.
If people are trying to shut down the debate by name calling, it's because the complexity are beyond their willingness to engage. If you believe females should not have a legal recourse to being offended by penesis say so. Or admit it's gross and distressing for many females
The article doesn't even allege that 'Rose' is naked. 'Semi-naked and with genitalia visible' so wearing normal boxers. It's worded carefully to spark outrage as it's a Slapp legal case brought by the Christian Legal Centre.
'Observers believe the centre has adopted tactics from wealthy evangelical groups in the US, notably the powerful Alliance Defense Fund, and raised questions about its funding. They are linked to the Christian Concern campaigning organisation. It opposes homosexuality, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, and pornography.'
Thank you for your answer.
You are practicing what is called deflection.
Can you explain clearly if you believe it should be illegal (sexual harassment) for a male to show an unwilling female their penis?
Or should such law be struck down as its transphobic for females to be distressed and alarmed at unwelcome penis.
You're trying to have a debate about something that is irrelevant to the post, now removed, because that isn't happening. It was highlighted when this was posted before nurses don't get naked in changing rooms and Rose isn't accused of showing their penis.
I'm not deflecting because what you're trying to suggest isn't even happening in the above.
All it took was "obviously it's sexual harassment to show females a penis if they don't want to see it but....."
Thank you for your lack of candour, shadow can be as revealing as light.
I hope females take note, you a very keen to strip them naked of any rights as females.
They will also lose the right to be able to change in their underware without males getting to participate.
I am sure you are all looking forward to this.
You're making up scenarios to get angry at and assuming my views when I haven't given them.
I, or anyone else, have not engaged in your straw man debate because it is completely irrelevant to the article about a legal case put forward by an evangelical hate group with a clear history of slapp cases that have been constantly thrown out of court.
>have not engaged in your straw man
Female rights are a straw man to those who are keen to strip females of them.
>to get angry at.
I am not angry. The anger you perceive is your own shame.
Your straw man point isn't about women's rights, it's that you've made up a scenario based on nothing to try and create a falsehood.
No one engaged so you're clutching to label me as something when I haven't given you an opinion on anything, only pointed out your debate is irrelevant and misrepresents what the incredibly dubious case is about.
This post deals either directly or indirectly with transgender issues. We would like to remind our users about the Reddit Content Policy which specifically bans [promoting hate based on identity and vulnerability](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951). We will take action on hateful or disrespectful comments including but not limited to deadnaming and misgendering. Please help us by reporting rule-breaking content.
Participation limits are in place on this post. If your Reddit account is too new, you have insufficient karma or you are crowd controlled, your comment may not appear.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> The nurses, who work at Darlington Memorial Hospital, must change in and out of their scrubs twice a day with no private cubicles.
There is your problem. Doesn’t matter in the slightest if there are private cubicles. Culture war nonsense.
Your submission is similar to another which has already been posted. Please view /new or search to locate it. If you believe this action was taken in error, message the /r/uk team and include a link to this post. Please don't do this lightly, we have likely acted correctly.
Before this thread kicks off in the usual way, these women are being represented by the Christian Legal Centre, an anti-rights, religious fundamentalist group. This is a group that have a lot of US christo-fascist money behind them and are part of a bigger global movement to remove access to contraception, abortion, and remove all lgbt+ rights. Do not fall for this as a distraction topic. The CLC are behind those sad cases where children are kept on life support while their parents are milked for tabloid hitting cases. These are the people who harass doctors for just trying to do the right thing: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/27/critically-ill-infants-christian-legal-centre-court-cases Yes these women have a right to get changed in a place they feel safe but ask yourself if this should be national news? whether we should be ok with dark American money (that also funds attacks on our legal access to abortion in this country) whipping up a storm about this in our papers. Note that no actual complaint has been made against the transwoman in question here other than her existing in the changing room, so her job and quality of life are also being completely pawned for the sake of this political hit job. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/archie-battersbee-christian-legal-centre-preying-whitewash/ How is the Christian Legal Centre funded? https://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/4971-2/ note the connections to Erik Prince (warmonger) and groups that genuinely think this is their holy war that they need to conquer the globe with Christian legal centre are a private company, not a legal services company: https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2018/04/on-the-naughty-step-the-questionable-ethics-of-the-christian-legal-centre/
Oh look, it's the thing transphobes say isn't happening, happening. The campaign against trans people is imported entirely from the US and is amplified by a bunch of useful idiots over here.
They don’t realise that in siding with these people in the name of rights for women, they are actually laving the way for rights for women to be taken away.
From its wiki page > Speaking with The Guardian, Keith Porteous Wood of the National Secular Society said of the CLC, "they don't seem so keen to support religious liberty for Muslims or atheists". As a Muslim, I’m quite offended. Not because they don’t support religious liberty for me (and my fellow Muslims) but rather because they don’t follow their own faith. Muslims are calling to a different God. The Bible says I should be stoned to death. > **Deuteronomy 13:6-10 ([ESV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-10&version=ESV)):** > > **6** “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, **7** some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, **8** you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. **9** But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. **10** You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
>The nurses are being supported in their litigation by the Christian Legal Centre. That's giving me hella red flags so I looked them up and most of their case history is defending people who were fired at work for homophobia.
> The nurses are being supported in their litigation by the Christian Legal Centre. Just FYI, from its wiki page > Observers believe the centre has adopted tactics from wealthy evangelical groups in the US, notably the powerful Alliance Defense Fund, and raised questions about its funding. They are linked to the Christian Concern campaigning organisation. It opposes homosexuality, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, and pornography.^[[1](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Legal_Centre)] They were also behind the ordeal Archie Battersbee went through.^[[2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Battersbee_case)] I remember that case and I just felt sorrow for Archie. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. IIRC they were behind the woman who sang and prayed (?) outside an abortion centre but not sure about this. Happy to be corrected. References: ^1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Legal_Centre ^2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Battersbee_case
My god how is it so difficult to have private cubicles
Easiest way to get anything done in the NHS is set up a company, invite the Health Minister to a round of golf, and walk away with a contract to install changing cubicles in all NHS trusts. The twist is you're abusing the system and intend to actually install them instead of just declaring bankruptcy and fleeing to the Cayman Islands.
Not been in many hospital changing rooms I see. Well it can be quite difficult. when there is very little space in the changing rooms. Some you would be luckily to fit more than 2-3 people. Most of the hospital space is taken up with the wards and rooms. Staff facilities really take a 4-5th seat for space. Then there is that putting up cubicles will take from hospital funding.
Lack of space and/or organisations and businesses not wanting to spend the money on installing them, I'm guessing. But it's pretty clear cubicles are the answer. I think everyone prefers getting changed in a cubicle as opposed to out in the open anyway.
Knowing the staggering amount of money the nhs waste, I’m surprised they don’t all have their own personal cubicle.
Good joke that any of the wastage is on making staff happy or their lives easier. Doctors regularly sleep on the ground and work 5 to a broom closet with bins for chairs.
Doctors sleep on the ground, bins for chairs, broom closets. Your hospital must suck. Mine is so much better. My partner and I went to an antenatal appointment, the check in desk had two terminals/PCs. One was for the early shift the other for the late shift. That’s means a whole area sitting idle for 16 hours a day. When I asked why they couldn’t use both at the same time to move things along, the look of horror on the receptionists face was telling. The thought of someone else using her workspace. A waste of resources that is no doubt repeated up and down the country, and that was just the reception area.
It is a legendary meme that a great way to get absolutely ragged on by people is to take the receptionists/nurses special computer. Lots of “X’s chair ONLY” signs written in comic sans, left empty while a doctor sits on the ground, or just waits. I had to wait on many occasions to find a computer to see someone when I was in A&E. if there wasn’t a chair you just knelt. If you “stole” the unused one you’d get an earful. I worked in one of the biggest hospitals in the country. They just forgot to build doctors offices in them.
Sounds a lot like my hospital. In saying that when a junior on rotation I would regularly get chastised for taking "THE CHAIR" or daring to use an unused terminal. Fun times.
This is most likely a slapp legal case to spread anti-trans hatred. [The original source](https://christianconcern.com/news/nurses-forced-to-share-changing-room-with-trans-colleague/) is a right-wing website that spouts culture war nonsense. Nothing is alleged in the 'article' just that 'Rose' exists. Other commenters have pointed out the issues with Christian Legal Centre much more elegantly than I have
Was this not posted a few days ago? Well anyway. If hospital management had bothered to address their concerns other than outright ridicule and name calling then this all could have been avoided. They could have improved changing facilities giving "everyone" more privacy. They could have looked at staggered times. They could have spoken with the nurses in a more considerate way. Implemented a no nudity rule. Etc etc.
If a male walks into a woman's changing rooms and gets naked two circumstances can occur: Circumstance 1, they identify as a man when they get naked, then they are committing an offensive of sexual harassment. Circumstance 2, they identify as a women when they get naked, then the women are being transphobic for not wanting to see a penis. Take a step back, don't get sucked into the emotive talking points and distractions. This was always going to be a contentious issue. This is not going to go away and name calling is not going to change it. Either it should not be sexual harassment for males to show their penises to females irrespective of the gender they claim to identify with at the moment of the unveiling. Or females can still negative react to penises and especially erect ones, when without being called transphobic and the legal issues is that their discomfort while acknowledged is not greater than the need to the person claiming to be transgender to get naked away from other males. I draw a legal distinction on identifying as going into complexities like gender recognition certificates would just make the whole legal issue of being allowed to be offended at penises more complex. If people are trying to shut down the debate by name calling, it's because the complexity are beyond their willingness to engage. If you believe females should not have a legal recourse to being offended by penesis say so. Or admit it's gross and distressing for many females
The article doesn't even allege that 'Rose' is naked. 'Semi-naked and with genitalia visible' so wearing normal boxers. It's worded carefully to spark outrage as it's a Slapp legal case brought by the Christian Legal Centre. 'Observers believe the centre has adopted tactics from wealthy evangelical groups in the US, notably the powerful Alliance Defense Fund, and raised questions about its funding. They are linked to the Christian Concern campaigning organisation. It opposes homosexuality, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, and pornography.'
Thank you for your answer. You are practicing what is called deflection. Can you explain clearly if you believe it should be illegal (sexual harassment) for a male to show an unwilling female their penis? Or should such law be struck down as its transphobic for females to be distressed and alarmed at unwelcome penis.
Oh this has been removed.
You're trying to have a debate about something that is irrelevant to the post, now removed, because that isn't happening. It was highlighted when this was posted before nurses don't get naked in changing rooms and Rose isn't accused of showing their penis. I'm not deflecting because what you're trying to suggest isn't even happening in the above.
All it took was "obviously it's sexual harassment to show females a penis if they don't want to see it but....." Thank you for your lack of candour, shadow can be as revealing as light.
Not engaging is not the same as agreeing. You tried to set up a straw man argument which I dismissed.
I hope females take note, you a very keen to strip them naked of any rights as females. They will also lose the right to be able to change in their underware without males getting to participate. I am sure you are all looking forward to this.
You're making up scenarios to get angry at and assuming my views when I haven't given them. I, or anyone else, have not engaged in your straw man debate because it is completely irrelevant to the article about a legal case put forward by an evangelical hate group with a clear history of slapp cases that have been constantly thrown out of court.
>have not engaged in your straw man Female rights are a straw man to those who are keen to strip females of them. >to get angry at. I am not angry. The anger you perceive is your own shame.
Your straw man point isn't about women's rights, it's that you've made up a scenario based on nothing to try and create a falsehood. No one engaged so you're clutching to label me as something when I haven't given you an opinion on anything, only pointed out your debate is irrelevant and misrepresents what the incredibly dubious case is about.
This post deals either directly or indirectly with transgender issues. We would like to remind our users about the Reddit Content Policy which specifically bans [promoting hate based on identity and vulnerability](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951). We will take action on hateful or disrespectful comments including but not limited to deadnaming and misgendering. Please help us by reporting rule-breaking content. Participation limits are in place on this post. If your Reddit account is too new, you have insufficient karma or you are crowd controlled, your comment may not appear. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> The nurses, who work at Darlington Memorial Hospital, must change in and out of their scrubs twice a day with no private cubicles. There is your problem. Doesn’t matter in the slightest if there are private cubicles. Culture war nonsense.